Beverly is the owner and president of Wright Choice Group, LLC, a coaching and business consulting company. Her services focus on leadership and executive coaching, consulting, and the diversity equity inclusion that helps clients achieve business and personal objectives.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The question. So I don't know if you can start, start it
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We're recording right now. So, and we can edit this part. So that's great. I'm Gary Schleifer, and this is the meet the author series brought to you by choice to magazine professional coaching, the ultimate resource for professional coaches in the wonderful arena of professional coaching. We're more than a magazine choices, a community for people who use coaching in their work or personal lives. And we've been building our strong, passionate following in the coaching industry for more than 20 years in today's episode, I'm going to talk with our coach author cause she wrote for choice. I think of her as an educator and speaker Beverly Wright and her article is called how can diversity equity and inclusion enrich your life? It's the first in a series of kaleidoscope columns. And we'll talk more about that. Uh, in a moment, I want to tell you a little bit about Bev, the, um, official, which you'll see in the magazine actually, but I'll tell you anyway, she's the owner president of right choice group, LLC, a coaching and business consulting company.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
She's an award-winning leadership coach who built high performing teams and intern in internal business says inside a fortune 500 technology company, which she may reveal if she's in, you know, feels like it. Um, as an entrepreneur, Bev founded a company in a competitive and increasingly global marketplace. She as, as am I and ICF professional certified coach and a co-active coach, same training as I did here's services focused on leadership and executive coaching consulting and the diversity equity inclusion that helps clients achieve business and personal objectives. But that's not all what I, so first of all, I have to say, I love this woman. So I love you Bev. I do. What you don't know about her is that one of her projects is called Dallas dinner table, correct? Correct. And it's about inviting all people of all ethnicities races to a dinner table, like super simple. And yet, do we do that? Well in Dallas, they do. And Bev, do you want to take over until call being out of that?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I'll be happy to tell you the Dallas dinner table is evolving to America's dinner table. And, uh, we have been presenting the community event in Dallas for, since I've been chair since 2002. And so we've been doing this for a long time. It was created by the Dallas chamber of commerce by the leadership Dallas alumni, uh, as a result of a tragic incident where a black man was dragged to death named James Byrd over 20, 25 years ago. And so the leadership team of the alumni association decided they needed to do to bring people of different races and cultures together in a facilitated conversation about race. And they wanted it to be not some big mega event where you don't really get to know each other, but small and intimate and food always seems to make it go easier. And so they came, they hired a consultant that came up with this concept of having a facilitated conversations about race around a dinner table.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And so usually they're eight to 10 people max at each table. And so we have been doing that as I said, uh, I've been chair since 2002 when we transitioned it from being under the umbrella of the Dallas regional chamber, which is still a big supporter of the dinner table to an independent nonprofit. And so just, uh, last year we got a grant to expand to America's dinner table, which had always been on the strategic plan map. We had just not had the funding to do it. And so in the year of the pandemic money appeared. And so we're now about to hire our first executive director and first full-time employee. So it's pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
It is very sad. You know, I, when you told me this, uh, before, all I could think of now was how do I start a chapter? Like how can I have my first enter table? And of course we're in the middle of a lockdown, so what might be a bit thinner?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah. And we did that this year for the last year, for the first time. Well, this year in January was when we have our annual community event. That's a free, um, and so, and we've been able to do this over the years because people volunteer to be host and be chained as facilitators, and then the guests come free. And so we've kept it free because we don't want money to be a barrier to participation. And we have just had the most amazing, consistent support. And we actually had our best fundraising year ever during the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Wow. I know, right. We talk about how bad the pandemic is in the souls that were lost and the people that are still suffering and the families are impacted. And there's a shadow side to all of it where, you know, funds almost literally appear, um, for such amazing projects as the Dallas dinner table.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Very true. And we ha we have an amazing small impassionate team that has kept us going. They show up, uh, consistently. And we actually have other places that are opening up. We trained a group of, I think, 10 to 15. I don't know the exact number because some of the other board directors run those pieces of it. But, uh, we trained a group in orange County, California about, uh, about a month ago and just heard from someone in Arizona and they want to figure out how they start. Uh, we had the Dallas Mavericks basketball team is one of our primary sponsors this year for the community event, as well as PepsiCo Frito-Lay and Lockheed Martin.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Well, and I'm serious. We'll have to talk afterwards to Canada of your account. So thank you so much, you know, and it's no surprise that that is something that you worked on possibly created, but it certainly had a great influence on, and here we are. Wow. Almost 20 years later from when you first became on a, you know, we're the chair and we're talking about the same issues, diversity equity and inclusion. And it choice. We took note of that last year made some changes. And one of the changes was we decided as a collective board and that we would have a column that was committed to keeping the conversation about diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging alive. And I think it was you that came up with the title. Yes, I did. And it's called kaleidoscope. I just brilliant. And what you write in your article about the description of kaleidoscope multicolors and that it was, that was really
Speaker 1 (06:53):
The colors and shapes and perspectives. And that's really kind of what we want to get to with this column is really having a lot of different perspectives. And that's what we do, frankly, with the dinner table. It's not a debate, it's an exchange of perspectives.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah. Well, you definitely gave us some things to, uh, look at in this article. I think, uh, you know, we know the Genesis of the article. Normally I ask people that question, but we, you know, we know why it was created and, but you know, I, as I was rereading it, the big thing that still stood out with me is the whole conversation about trust and the different ways that you, um, can you speak a little bit more to how that became a focal point of this article? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Uh, it's a, it's one of those things where I was in this, this program for women, uh, called power of self that was created by Marcia Clark. And, um, it was in 2003 and there were 15 of us women. And I was introduced to this model around trust that was different than others that I had looked at before. And it was created by a married couple. The rain is, and they have wrote this book called trust and betrayal in the workplace. And it talked about the different types of trust. And I think me, like a lot of people think trust is all one thing, right? You either have it or you don't have it. There are different types of trust. And so when you look, when you think about trust, most of the time, and when you talk about competence trust, I think that's the one that most of us don't have as difficult to time deciding if we have trust in someone's ability to do their job or whatever their role is, they either have the skills or they don't have the skills so we can trust and, and think about it. You might have, here's one of the examples you may hear from a, using a, a medical example, you may go to a doctor who is skillful as a surgeon, but has no bedside manner. Right. But, but, but you absolutely have trust in their ability to perform their medical responsibilities, but they may not be the cuddliest person.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Think about that. So that's a different type of trust and in the workplace, and even in other situations, we can pretty easily decide if we have competence trust in a person, but there are a couple of other types of trust that this model talks about. And one is in fact, I keep the model very close at hand. So one is the other one is contractual trust and that's the trust of character. And so that really talks about whether you can, that they manage expectations. They delegate appropriately, you know, they're consistent. They keep their agreements. That gets a little bit harder for us to decide. Do we have that type of trust because we can have competence trust and not have the trust of character. And then the other one is communication trust the trust of disclosure. And my favorite example for this one is when you go to someone's home or they bring something to a potluck and it's the best you've ever tasted.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So maybe it's a Apple pie and you said, this is the best Apple pie. I would love to have your recipe. And they said, Oh, sure. I'll be glad to give it to you. And they give it to you and you make it. And it doesn't quite taste because they left something out because they didn't want your pie to be as good as theirs, but they didn't tell you that. Right. And so you go back and say, well, you know, my pad didn't turn out like yours. And they say, Oh, I have no idea why that happened. Right. Because they didn't have you ever known people when they say information is power, they believe that. And they don't always share all the information. And so you may be able to have competence trust. You may even have character trust, but do you trust them to always give you the information that they have, but they choose not to share. And so then when you start to understand, and when I worked with, uh, with groups that do this, uh, that we talk about trust is the foundation for all relationships. Uh, they start to see trust differently. And what I hear them say is, Oh, I absolutely trust my peer to do their job. They have the skills to do their job, but I wouldn't turn my back on them in a dark alley.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I hear that Ken, that, something along those lines often. Yeah. And so then we can start to work through, is there a way for us to get to these other types of trusts?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right. Thank you so much because you're right. I mean, just to take the word trust at face value really do. And I want to remind everyone that it's, it's nicely drawn out in the article, so
Speaker 1 (11:41):
It really was a great, um, uh, awareness for me to gain about the different types of trusts.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, no, that's great. Um, kind of shifting gears a little bit, not still the article, but let's go back to the bigger picture. It's 20, 21. What are your thoughts on the progress that's been made related to diversity equity and inclusion?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, I think that the, I like to always be optimistic because I think, um, that's how we get to solutions. And so one of the first things I always ask when I'm thinking about anything is am, if what I'm doing, is it helpful to get us to the objective? Right? And so when you talk about diversity equity inclusion, I think there has been progress. But I think because it's such a multifaceted issue that we still have a long way to go, but I'm encouraged by is that I see a lot more serious focus on it from all the stakeholders involved. So businesses, individuals, um, parents, students, you know, young people, all these different politicians. Um, I see that more people are paying attention to it because our times are demanding it. Uh, we see all of the, you know, the pandemic hit, uh, there's lots of conversation about whether there were some communities where that we're not getting the vaccine, uh, as often as in other groups were getting it because they didn't have transportation, you know, those kinds of things, uh, or they didn't have technology.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, exactly. They didn't have internet access
Speaker 1 (13:24):
For appointments. And so there had to be adjustments made. I know in my home, uh, city and state, they actually set up drive-throughs where people could go through and someone would fill out the forms for them. There was a woman who was, you know, 94 years old was she didn't have a car and the closest place that she could go to get the vaccine was 25 miles away. Wow. So, you know, they just interviewed some people in those different neighborhoods to say, you know, what's the barrier to you being able to access this, this, you know, lifesaving, potentially lifesaving, uh, vaccine. So I think we've still got those issues. And frankly, we've still got the rise of a lot of, um, social unrest because of, um, a lot of longstanding issues. And this is our opportunity to really, really look ourselves in the face and say, who are we?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
You know, not who do we say we are, but who are we really? Uh, and, and so I think I'm optimistic that people are willing to have the hard conversations, the discomfort of having those candid conversations about who are we really, we had the attack on the Capitol that raised a lot of questions. So I am hopeful because I see young people and talk to young people that want it to be different and they're willing to give their time their, their treasure, you know, meaning money and resources to make it different because they want a different America. They want the America, uh, and not just the America, but the world that we say that we aspire to and it's time for us to make that become closer to a reality.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah. Um, you know, there's so many aspects of, of working with this conversation. I mean, thank you. The, your part is multifaceted, not only, uh, did you stand up and say, I want to be the first one to write for the kaleidoscope column that you named aptly and wonderfully the Dallas dinner table, having this conversation. It's I thank you so much. It's just, it's amazing Europe. You're, um, you're a role model for us as to the different things that can be done and seeing what you do keeps me going, and we were doing what we can a choice. Are we there? Of course not. We all know we're not there, you know, and I think that for me, what keeps it going is that I consider that it's a conversation that has to be kept alive. Yeah. And the, and what better way than through the media and like choice magazine, but also, you know, I want to ask you, you decided to include diversity equity inclusion in your business and, um, and make it a focus. Tell me more about that.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Well, you know, it's, uh, I think it was a natural progression to me. If I go back, if I look back at my, even my childhood, I was the kid that always wanted everybody to hold hands and cross the street together. I've been doing that since birth. And so, you know, in my high school class, which we, um, have been together, I went to high school with Mo graduated high school with most of the people that we started first grade together. So we literally were together for the entire life of our school career, our early school career. And we're still together. We still have an annual get together around the holidays, even for those that don't live here, they come home because their parents are still here, other family. And, um, and we actually had a zoom call about probably three months ago and have another one we're applying to have soon.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So I've always been that person that wanted everybody to get along. And I see many times that the things that are dividing us are longstanding like brace and, you know, lack of a focus on that as an longstanding problem, that if we don't focus on it, it's going to tear us apart. And I don't think anybody wants that. I think that there are more things that unite us, that we really care about. We all want our families to be safe. We want our children to be well-educated and to feel secure. And so there are things that we want, but we let these other things that are, um, really distractions and, and harmful get in the way. And so I, uh, that, and when I was, you mentioned the company and, um, I've worked for IBM for 38 years, and they were very supportive of everything I did with Dallas dinner table.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
They paid for dinners. They gave me permission to have people interview me at work for the media when we were trying to publicize it, they, we use some of our assistants first, they volunteered and they were so excited about supporting Dallas dinner table, that then they self-organize the next year and had even more assistance joined because before we had the technology to do the assignments of the tables, we did it all manually. They had to call every person and say, okay, you're assigned this table. And it said this address, and here's what here's who your host will be. And we had, we started with about 250 people. The next year was 800 people, literally the very next year. And then it was 1200 people. And we can't put a cap on it because we were all volunteer. And as I tell people, we couldn't, I little volunteer legs couldn't keep up after a while.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And so we kind of rolled it back to about a hundred and, but we do, uh, private events as well. So there are companies that pay us to do private events. So I think, uh, it was a natural progression for me to add that to my business and the last 12 of my, uh, 38 years at IBM, I led the IBM diversity council. So I've always kind of had that as a kind of part of what I did. And, um, and it just made sense that when I talk about leadership, I think leadership has an important role to play. And that's, that's who I coach. And so it made sense for me to include that as part of my business.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, no kidding. And, you know, to have such support from them, mega corporation, like IBM to, uh, you know, really says a lot about their own commitment and carrying it. Are you optimistic about our ability to maintain the focus on DEI into bed embedded in the fabric of businesses?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I am, because it was different as of last year. I think the, uh, murder of George Floyd took everything to a different level. The conversations that I was having, and still I'm having with CEOs of companies, not with their delegates, but with the actual CEOs of some companies from small companies that have been in business three years to international brands that everybody would recognize have been different. They have come saying, we want to do the right thing. We aren't sure what that is. We need some external help. Um, they're making public, their commitments to diversity, equity and inclusion. They're saying out loud, I don't want to check the box kind of PR kind of, uh, commitment to this. I want something that's going to move the needle. And so the conversations are different from any that I've ever had in the past. And I'm hearing that from other colleagues that do some of the same type of work that something changed and you know what, it's, when you have a sea change that, you know, everything kind of shifts and it's not the same, it doesn't go back.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So I, and so when you couple that with the young people that really, really are pushing us and saying, we, you know, they have a different perspective. They are the, the children that my generation raised, right. And they're saying, we're not going to keep waiting for this to change. We want it to change. And we want to make sure it changes sooner than later. Um, and so the conversations I have with them are inspiring because they are willing to do the work. Uh, they grew up in a different, um, environment where they were mixed, most of them with lots of different races and cultures. Uh, so they don't even see it as what's still an issue in, in many cases. And so that gives me a lot of optimism about our ability to keep it at the forefront. And then you put that in top with the pandemic and the way it's changed the way businesses will have to work. Right. So we, we've got a lot of changes to manage and, um, and diversity, equity and inclusion I think, is going to still be really important. And one of the things that they have to focus on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Wow. Yeah, no kidding. Well, we're committed to that over here. And with your help, we've launched another corner stone for our DEI conversation. Um, you know, it's interesting that you, the, what you were saying about the young people and all that, I think the pandemic inadvertently has caused a shift or technology in, um, in a systemic issue around hiring. I was hearing about how, when you're using these, uh, mega systems and they don't want to promote any, but you can put your name and, and I guess the system is it's relatively anonymous as to what you look like and what your name is, it's your skillset that comes forward so that, you know, there's little things like that that are happening. And I don't know if that was necessarily pandemic related, but also, um, on a personal note, what we're doing is we're also looking at our investments.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
You know, you're talking about the young kids and they're doing, you know, they want it now. And most of us want it now, too. I mean, it's like way overdue, but we also are, are realistic enough to know that sometimes things take time to like coaching. It needs to be, you need to process the information and look around and you can't turn the, what do we use to say, you can't turn the queen Mary around on a time. You, you need to, um, but we've switched our investments to, uh, ethical funds. And the funds are ones that are socially responsible. They have no controversial issues like guns or, um, cigarettes or things that, you know, are important. But the ones that we're in are also, um, about, uh, climate change pains and that there
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Your big companies that are doing those same kinds of things, you know, sometimes it
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Goes back to where money counts, right. It's like follow the money. Right.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Absolutely. Absolutely. That is, that is a really important point. And that's again, where leadership comes in is that the leaders of companies of all sizes have to make choices about how they're going to support it and have it align with their values.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, exactly. And you know, the young people are kind of, you know, when we are too, we're looking at forcing, forcing the change. It's like, no, you're not, you're not taking care of your employees or your, you know, in our case, anti-gay, um, you know, simple as that that's been going on for decades. And so all we're doing is we're making the group better, oppressed, more inclusive with that, the fight. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And, you know, to, to that point, um, one of the things that companies are having to deal with is retention of employees. You know, you can attract perhaps for other reasons, but retaining that churn is what kills, you know, skills and that kind of thing, where you got that turnover. And one of the things that I noticed even before I left corporate and started my own company, because I was over talent management for 12 years, um, that retention was higher among younger people. If they were able to get involved in some community related, if their company supported them being involved in community related activities early in their career, they want to make those changes. They want to be involved. And so accompany that, you know, gave them that opportunity to go work at, you know, school in, in Dallas, we have a, a principal for a day, this overseen by the Dallas chamber. And I had the opportunity to do that three different times at my old high school.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Respective about, you know, the changes in education and going there as the principal quote, unquote, as opposed to the student was a whole different experience for me and gave me some insight into what some of the challenges are for our teachers. And, Oh, by the way, you know, teachers became essential employees when the pandemic hit and parents were having to try to teach their children at home. And all of a sudden they realized how valuable these teachers were that perhaps they didn't realize before they had to try to step into that role themselves. And your parents saying, you know, you, you actually saw on television where parents were almost riding Sam. We've got to get the teachers back.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah. All up here in Canada too. Let me,
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Oh. You know, we've, hopefully we've learned some important lessons from the things that we've had to go through that were hard, but again, we proved we can do hard things. And this whole diversity conversation is going to be one of those hard things, moving from just talking about to actually inclusion and belonging. So I think that's the, that's where we have to keep the focus, but I'm, I'm optimistic that we'll do it because the reason we do it is like every other thing that happens, the market's going to demand it.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah. Well, I mean, buying the stocks that I buy based on that, right. Shave up people, you know, then you, you know, your, your preferred company, then everybody wants to be the preferred company. And, um, Beth, what else would you like our audience to take from this article you wrote in the, in our conversation?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Well, here's the thing, the, when they read the article, they will hear about, uh, the approach that I wanted to take with the article was about the gift of diversity, equity and inclusion. I've been thinking a lot over the last few years about people that I have met, that if I didn't extend myself to really get to know them as people, they're not necessarily folks I would have met in my normal activities, especially since I don't go into an office and haven't in a long time. Uh, so I started doing virtual coffees with people that I saw on LinkedIn posting things that I really, um, you know, resonant that resonated with me. And I would send them a note and say, Hey, I love the things you post. And I'd like to get to know you better and no one's turned me down. And so I've gotten to know some people that, uh, I probably wouldn't have known they're different from me.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Uh, and so in the article, I really talk about someone that was very different from me. And she asked me to become her friend because she realized that as a white woman, uh, that she had led a, she called it a very narrow life. Uh, and so in the article, it tells you how we met. Uh, but we became really, really good friends. Uh, she passed away in 2011, but she gave me so many gifts of our friendship because we in T asked me for us to intentionally become friends. And so in my office where I'm sitting, I have pictures of my family, but then where I can see just looking over to my right is her picture because she had that kind of impact on my life. Uh, and as somebody that we probably wouldn't have ever become friends, but we, we did. And so, um, I wanted people to understand what we lose when we don't open ourselves up to people different than our, than ourselves.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah. Thank you. I think you did a great job with that and that story for those of you who haven't read the article, go read it. It's brilliant. It's touching and, uh, exactly to what Deb was talking about. Um, what actions would you like our listeners to take as a result of this wisdom of yours?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
It's kind of what we've been talking about. I would just invite them to see where they can, uh, open themselves up to knowing, to intentionally going out and meeting people different than themselves. When we, you know, what I say to people all the time is that when we're in the workplace or in work situations, we, diversity is pretty easy to get where you go and they're just people, races and experiences, uh, in the same space. But who do you invite to your home? Who do you go to dinner with? You know, who do you do social activities with if there's no diversity there. Um, and I could tell you lots of funny stories that I had over the years about diversity of where, uh, one that was really interesting. And, um, and of course I won't use names, but I've worked with, uh, some ladies and we were all managers at the time and they were both white women.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
And we decided to get together and do a craft project for our direct reports at the home of one of them. And so we did the project and we had had a wonderful day and I knew her husband. Um, he walks in after we had been there, the three of us all, and he said, bill, I think you're the first black person that's ever been in our house. And his wife's face turned bright red and she called his name. And he was like, Oh. And I said, I just turned to him. And I said, well, go tell the neighbors I'm
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Of broke the tension. And so we kind of laughed about it and that kind of thing. So flash forward, like, I don't remember how long it was. Maybe it was several, um, months and they came to my house. And so when I opened the door, I said, guess what? You're not the only white guy that's been in my house. And he's like, okay, you have, I got it. I got it.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I've learned my lesson.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And so sometimes humor is, you know, a way for you to break the tension because you don't want people to feel judged that they said something that, you know, their intention was right, was on target, but they just didn't know how to, uh, how to language it sometimes. And I think that's one of the things we do at Dallas dinner table. We try to make it a no judgment zone. We want people to come as they are. So what I'd ask our audience to do is to really talk to your kids, especially, uh, we have several places that I know of that are going through some tough times in school, just yesterday, our day before on the news, in one of our local school districts, they had some children that were in like middle school that had come up with a game where they were pretending to sale their black classmates as slaves
Speaker 3 (32:09):
One line. Oh my,
Speaker 1 (32:12):
It was just, you know, and so we can't keep saying, they're just kids. They learned it somewhere. Yeah. And so what I would say to people is, you know, if we don't get our kids to change, because they're the hope of the future. Uh, so talk to your kids, whether they're your kids, they're your nieces and nephews and, you know, extended family. We've got to, um, we've got to take responsibility for trying to be part of the solution. And, um, and so that means if we all do our part, I say, have a couple of things that I say many hands, make light work and to really take all of us. And the other thing I say is we're all in the same boat now. So I saw this quote that said, we may have all come on different boats, but now we're in the same boat.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
And now taking on water in my part of the boat, and you're not helping me bail pretty soon. You're a part of the, boat's going to be underwater too. Yeah. And so, um, I keep saying to people that, you know, they're doing all this space exploration, nobody's going to live on in space anytime soon, we're going to have to figure this out, down here. So my invitation is that we all just do a little, you know, our part in trying to be part of the solution. And I think if we do that, we'll all come out to the better.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah. Wow. That well said, thank you. And thank you so much for joining us for this. Meet the author episode. Um, Beverly what's the best way for people to reach you?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Well, they can go to my website of which is www right. Choice group.com, which you mentioned, and they can always just send me an email. And I think that I included that in the website is in the article. Right. And so they can do that. And, uh, and always remember that choice is a great place for you to keep growing as, as coaches and as leaders as well. So I have been recommending it. I haven't been a choice subscriber since it first came in the market. And, um, so I'm happy to be a part of spreading the message again now.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yes. And being a part. I don't think I mentioned you're part of our editorial board. They're happy to be there and we're happy to have you, your contributions have been amazing. So thank you. So that's it for this episode of the meet the author series, uh, sign up to our email firstname.lastname@example.org and subscribe to your favorite podcast app. So you don't miss any of our informative episodes. If you're interested in getting a free issue of choice magazine, digital head on over to choice dash online, down claw.com and click sign up now button I'm Gary Schleifer, enjoy the journey.