choice Magazine

Beyond the Page ~ George Anastasopoulos

January 12, 2022 Garry Schleifer
choice Magazine
Beyond the Page ~ George Anastasopoulos
Show Notes Transcript

In this interview, we talk with George Anastasopoulos about his book I Love Mondays.

Learn to love Mondays because you love what you do, where you do it, and who you do it with. Managers everywhere know the feelings of being overwhelmed, overworked, and underappreciated - like sinking in quicksand. If you find yourself saying “it’s just the way it is,” we’ll show you how to change it. Instead of the usual business book formula, we created a fable that showcases real, applicable skills with real business outcomes. Accomplishing more, making a difference, and creating an amazing team culture is possible for you, regardless of where you are in your company’s hierarchy, by changing the way you work, live, and play with those around you. Welcome to the world of loving Mondays!

George is Head Coach at Leadership Fundamentals, founded more than 20 years ago following a 20-year corporate sales, marketing and general management career. his mission is to enable every manager and employee on the planet to do less, accomplish more and make a difference. George has taught at the University of Toronto and York University's Schulich Executive Education Centre.

To learn more about George and his Book, I Love Mondays, click here.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):

Hi, I'm Gary Schleifer. And this is beyond the page, brought to you by choice the magazine of professional coaching, the ultimate resource for professional coaches in this wonderful arena of professional coaching. We're more than a magazine choice is a community for people who use coaching in their working or personal lives. We've been building our strong, passionate following in the coaching industry for more than 20 years. Yeah. And I still love it. In today's episode. I talk with coach educator, George ensos about his book entitled. I love Mondays. George is a PCC with the international coaching Federation. He's a CSL, uh, is he's the head coach at leadership fundamentals founded more than 20 years ago. So there's another 20 following a 20 year corporate sales. There's another 20. So we're at 60 now. Um, now we're getting old, uh, marketing and general management career. His mission is to enable every manager and employee on the planet to do less. Yay. Accomplish more. Awesome. And make a difference. George has taught at the university of Toronto and York. University's Schick EDU executive education center. Welcome Georgian. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2 (01:18):

Oh, Gary, thank you for having me. And I, I gotta tell you after all those twenties, I'm feeling quite old. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (01:23):

I know. Right. Well, okay. 20 of them are mine. Two twenties are yours, but you know, let's just run 'em in parallel and we're only left in our twenties. How's that?

Speaker 2 (01:33):

I think that sounds like a good Compli <laugh>

Speaker 1 (01:37):

Okay. I, first of all, before we get into any other questions, have to tell you, I absolutely loved the book. I, it was like a, I could not put it down. I think I read it in less than 24 hours. And I think because I read it so fast, I want to go read it again. I really loved the way it was written because I like that style and I loved what it represented in the story. So I'm gonna, that's my impression of it. I want you to tell our listeners and our viewers, so tell them about, I love Mondays.

Speaker 2 (02:23):

Awesome. Thank you. First of all, thank you so much for the compliment that you've paid me on the book that you read and how much you appreciated it. It really warms my heart to know that someone like you, who is a professional in the world at the coaching field, but also a human being who appreciates a good read. Oh my

Speaker 1 (02:40):

Goodness. Take away from it. It was, it was brilliant. I mean, I'll put it right up the, there with, um, I watched a movie recently called dare to dream, uh, the secret, remember the secret series. Yeah. And there was a movie dare to dream and it, and it has a tale to tell of reality and impact. And your book was like, I was, it was like, I was watching a movie, like I was reading a movie, you know, it was just awesome.

Speaker 2 (03:06):

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so you, you asked me to talk a little bit about the book and what it's all about and so forth. Well, you know, we're in the world of coaching, you and I, and, and it's pretty simple to sit down and say, I'm gonna write a book about coaching and I'm gonna write a book that is going to help coaches be better coaches or help coaches win more clients or whatever the case might be. And it's, and it's almost, you know, it's almost simple to write a book that has a, how to menu of how to do certain things, but it's consider more challenging to write a book that is entertaining, provides hope, provides inspiration. And that was our intent all along my co-op Dakota, Laura and I, it was our inspiration all along is to provide hope and inspiration for people who needed it and wanted it in the workplace.

Speaker 2 (03:54):

While at the same time, showcasing coaching, showcasing the power of coaching, bringing it into the mainstream of understanding how it would work in a, in a, in a workplace and to tell a story and weave a journey, which is what coaching is often between us and our clients is a journey from a starting place that is perhaps unpleasant or challenging, or have offers opportunities to an end place. And the journey along that, along that continuum. And so we, we wrote a story in the form of a novel with a hero and, uh, ups and downs and a Sage and wise nonhuman character representing her coach that ultimately delivers spoiler alert, a happy ending.

Speaker 1 (04:41):

It does that. It does that, uh, you know, so why why'd you do it? Why'd you write this book?

Speaker 2 (04:48):

Well, you know, I spent, like you said earlier, I spent invested put, you know, 20 years of my life into corporate work. And when I left corporate 20 years ago, roughly over 20 years ago, I left because I was tired of being overworked, overwhelmed over stressed and underappreciated. And I didn't want to have to experience that anymore, but I committed my life at that point to training and coaching and working with others to help them not have to face the same thing. Um, research has show own that, and this is my research, my own research, and there's plenty of it out there. It shows that some, something like two thirds of employees in the workplace are disengaged. Half of those are actively disengaged, which means they're sabotaging their company or their coworkers quarter of them are burned out 20% are driven to tears where shouldn't be doing this to us get, and much of the work that you and I do. And other coaches do in the workplace and dealing with people with workplace issues, deals with the pressures and the stresses and the anxieties they face in a, in a cluttered workplace. And I wanted to change that. I wanted to give them some practical belief shifts that they could embrace that would allow them to view their environment differently. And the people that they work with differently together with a set of skills that they could easily apply, that would transform both themselves as well as those around them.

Speaker 1 (06:12):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> no, you did. And you did a great job because you, you know, when I read it, I'm thinking like, you know, I know you're a coach, I'm a coach. Why would I, why would this book be of interest to me? And first of all, I felt that the book isn't just of interest for coaches, and I'll tell you what the impact was on me, but it's also would be an awesome book to give to your clients because they can see themselves in it. They can, uh, better understand the, um, the coaching journey, what, uh, what's available with coaching. It can understand, help them understand their leadership journey. So, so to give an example, so what, one of the things that I got out of the book was, and I'm, and really bringing it down to a simple, simple is that you can be, you can cause a cultural shift no matter where you are in your organization.

Speaker 2 (07:09):


Speaker 1 (07:09):

So I read that book and wasn't that the direction that all my coaching sessions took that week, I had people who were in the, in the place of that, that your, uh, your fictional character and were, were frustrated, like you said, about majority of corporate individuals and felt that it was either, um, somebody else higher up to take, to charge to make a change. Otherwise I'm outta here. Yeah. And I, I faced that and it was interesting because I used that kind of like the weekly, it was like I had a, a, a premise for coaching. I know we're not supposed to have a big a agenda. We're supposed to have a little a agenda. Um, but I had that in the background because it just, I couldn't drop the significance of your fictional character's role in the impact in her organization.

Speaker 2 (08:08):

Well, Gary, first of all, I, I am super, super happy to hear you say what you just said, because the fact that my book and the story that I wove through that there, with the code of my a co-author the, the, the fact that it made an impact in your perspective and your mindset, as you coached your clients and allowed you to have an impact with them that is even more profound than you would typically than you would typically have. I mean, that's just super powerful. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that's part of the underlying hope that I had about the book and equipping coaches to be able to showcase the transformative nature of coaching with their clients, but more importantly, or just as importantly as to allow them to believe in themselves. And what's possible for people beyond and organizations beyond merely the client, it's the downstream impact.

Speaker 2 (08:56):

And you're proving it just by having read it. And by allowing that consciously and subconsciously to influence the way you come forward as a coach with your clients, that I think is absolutely huge. Coaching is just such a wonderful profession. It's such a powerful, uh, methodology of, uh, of, of growth, of learning, of fulfillment, of progress, of transformation. And we, coaches are often our own worst enemies is the living, the limiting beliefs that we have about ourselves and our clients. I wanted to open that up a little bit and say, we can change the world and we can change the world with the next person that we touch. And I hope that we demonstrated that through our protagonist, in the story, our hero, Jessica, and the work that she does with her coach.

Speaker 1 (09:44):

Yeah. Really, really well done. Well, and before I give you another example of the impact on me, what did you learn about coaching as you wrote this? I mean, you're already a seasoned coach. You came at it for us. I can't imagine you didn't get something out of this

Speaker 2 (10:00):

Well it's and you would be correct. <laugh> what I learned about coaching. As I wrote it, it was fascinating to see the distinction in my mind that there's, there's when we coach, we coach in we're in the moment with our present, with our clients. And when we're in the moment and present with our clients, we get to experience what we're experiencing and to get help them in their journey, through our conversation. What I discovered is that in creating that in story form and imagining it, it really enhanced my ability to visualize a coaching conversation. I discovered that, you know, coaching is once I reflected on it and edited it and sculpted the language in the coaching conversation that's being used in the various interactions between our hero, Jessica and her coach. Um, I kept thinking how powerful reflection is for coaches as I kept looking back on it.

Speaker 2 (11:08):

I kept thinking, okay, I want to edit this sentence a little bit. She should be asking this question as opposed to that question, or what have you. So I learned how powerful reflection is for coaches to be able to go back. And so one of the things I'm now starting to do with my clients is asking permission to record our LA all our sessions for the purposes of me going back and listening to what I said, and didn't say, and their reaction, and then visualize, how would it have unfold? The had I asked a different question or perhaps offered a challenge or an acknowledgement instead of what I might have done at the point at the same time, you know, and Gary, there was more, uh, I learned that engaging my mentor coach to advance, read it and offer suggestions. <laugh> turned out to be a really good idea. <laugh> because she and I, I hope I'm not telling tales at a school here, but she is one of the, um, endorsers on the back of the book, Sue, Sheldon, who, an amazing lady.

Speaker 1 (12:10):

I love design, know her too.

Speaker 2 (12:13):

Oh, totally. And, and so I engaged Sue and, you know, Sue being the modest person that she is at first, the humble person, she said, well, I don't know if I could give you any feedback on offering in books. I don't write books <laugh> and I said, well, just read what happens between the coach and their, you know, the client and, you know, gimme some thoughts on her suggest and her insights as she viewed it through her lens, mm-hmm <affirmative> was hugely helpful. So I encourage all us coaches, that's the learning I took away. I encourage all us coaches to continue to use a mentor coach throughout the course of our journey. It's hugely valuable.

Speaker 1 (12:49):

Yeah, no kidding. And I'd really love what you said about what you did about recording and reflecting back yourself, let alone the client, possibly having the access to the recording too, to say, you know, to, to take a look and, and remember what it was that you said cause far too. And we know this already, that coaching happens mostly after like between sessions, but what if the, you know, so what if some of some of our, our clients are, they need to rele resee it, rehear it, relearn it to not be in the stress possibly of the moment or the, you know, I have to answer in the moment when the coaching actually happens. So no, it's really great. And I, I, and yes, this is a reflective thing too, because I also, while I, that week, while I was coaching people, I also, I came upon one person and I'm li and I was like, I had to, I, well, didn't have to, I noticed myself taking that anybody can make a cultural shift in an, a organization from any place within the organization.

Speaker 1 (14:00):

And looking at this particular client I was working with to see like, he's almost he's is it's almost Ts D ish. He was that far. Like it was too, it was like, I was noticing a case study where the, that the, the book and <affirmative>, and the learning from the book he was on, he was too far gone. The other side of the possibility of pivoting back, like there were starting to be physical manifestations that he needed a break. And yet it was still possible to, to keep that the love of the concept of being a cultural, uh, manifester or leader mm-hmm, <affirmative>, mm-hmm, <affirmative> in the way that he held the loyalty for the company that he'd worked with for so long and the team that he, you know, he didn't want to abandon his team. So, you know, it's still let me say, okay. It it's maybe just not now to have that kind of conversation with this client mm-hmm <affirmative>, but I didn't, but it wasn't that it couldn't be couldn't happen in the future. Right,

Speaker 2 (15:03):

Right, right. Oh, no, I, I totally get that. And in fact, I mean, I'm just thinking of a metaphor right now, Gary, if you watch a like professional sport on TV, hockey, football, and so forth, like if you're, if you're watching the bench after a play or after a sequence and the, the line that's just come off. I mean, you'd look at 'em on the bench as the camera pans over there, and they're all looking at their, at their tablets and they're all reviewing the previous play and how the other teams defense reacted or the coach or the, or the, the, um, excuse me, the, the, the, uh, goalkeeper reacted or how the people that they were, you know, competing against the other players, the other team they're watching the play, they're analyzing the play, they're reflecting upon the play and they're doing so together.

Speaker 2 (15:45):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so the true sign of professionalism is our ability to step back after the fact and say, what am I, what did I experience in the moment? What am I seeing now on reflection? Whether I'm looking at it on a tablet, cuz I recorded it or just in reflection in my head and, and how am I gonna adjust the way, the way I continue to coach this person to help them in this journey, recognizing that, that they're at a stage that isn't quite ready to take them where I think I'd like to take them or

Speaker 1 (16:12):


Speaker 2 (16:13):

No kidding. So I totally get that, but that if we're professionals and, and we are, then we are, maybe we ought be we ought be taking that tablet out and saying, oh,

Speaker 1 (16:22):

That well, and that's mentoring and supervision. I totally agree. Um, I'm gonna be entering in a program to work towards applying for my MCC master certified. I coach mastery. I don't know what they call it now. I think it's still MCC mm-hmm <affirmative> and uh, and I'll be, uh, I'm engaging I'm up leveling to an, having an MCC coach. So I have that experience, uh, so I can have that modeled for me. Um, it's gonna include supervision, mentoring. So this coming year will be exactly all of that for me. So, yeah. Thanks. Good point. Um, I said earlier on that, I thought this would be great for coaches and their clients. Was there anybody else you thought this book would be for?

Speaker 2 (17:04):

Well, you know, Gary, when I first wrote this book, I wrote those, this for people who used to be me, um, or people who I used to be, I should say,

Speaker 1 (17:15):

Wow, do you have a lot of people that used to be you George? Yeah. Those lucky people, those lucky people,

Speaker 2 (17:21):

Hopefully not. No, but the person I used to be that overworked overwhelmed over stressed micromanager type boss that I was because I believed and had held onto a belief system that I gotta do it all on demand perfectly. Right, right now, um, that, you know, this is the way it is the rules. And I recognize that those beliefs and a attachment to those kinds of beliefs about being a manager were not helpful to me being an effective leader. Right. And in fact were causing me the stress, the overwhelm, the overworked, and so forth that I was taking it all onto myself. Um, and so what I wrote, I wrote this book for those people, those people who go to work and they got a nod in their stomach on Monday morning, because they've got a to-do list. As long as they're, as they're, they've got meetings back to back, there's, you know, there's conflicting priorities.

Speaker 2 (18:13):

Oh my gosh, I didn't finish my to-do list from last week. Now I've got 14 emails that are urgent and they're not sure where to go next. And they hate Mondays <laugh> and every other day. And so I wrote this book for people who have to go to work and, and are not looking forward to it because they're not in love with their work or the people that they're doing it with. I wrote this book to inspire people to understand that they are the solution, or as I say it bluntly, you are the solution. <laugh> I wrote this book so that people don't live in a world of victimization. They're constantly complaining that the other person or the situation or the company or the organization or the hierarchy, whatever it is is the villain here that's causing them grief. But in fact, they're the solution.

Speaker 2 (19:02):

They can turn things around by changing their belief systems, by adopting a few simple, practical, applicable concrete skills. And not only does that transform them, but because of that, it transforms those around them. And as a consequence of that, their organization as well. And, and, and there was no way I could have said what I just said to make it truly believable. But if I leave the story that had that outcome in, it's in it's wake, then I thought this might provide the inspiration and the hope for, for people in the workplace to realize, hang on a second. Maybe I can say TG IM yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:44):

<laugh> maybe I,

Speaker 2 (19:45):

You know, maybe that's not such a foreign thing after all. Yeah. You

Speaker 1 (19:48):

Know, you know, and, and it's not, I mean, I love everything I do. I look forward to Mondays because I love what I do. I also also am in charge of what I do and you know, so I'm my own boss. Yeah. But, and so, but I wanna pause and just reflect on what you just said, because this is why I love doing these calls, because I'm always trying to get that little bit more out of the author. You, and you just said something that I think we all know, but we don't stop and come to a call with, as often as we might I'll speak for myself. I know I don't. Okay. You, you are the solution. Yeah. So what if the question to the client is, so what you are the solution. I am gonna use that in my coaching calls for the rest of this week, I've got 10 lined up for the next 24 hours. So, um, what if you are the solution? Yeah. And

Speaker 2 (20:47):


Speaker 1 (20:48):


Speaker 2 (20:49):

Totally. I, I would love to hear your reflections on using that phrase after you're done the next 10 clients. That's powerful stuff. Yeah. And, and as, and as we enable and coach and instill confidence through our work with our clients, as, as the, our clients go through, it's important for them to understand that they don't need to be victims. They are the solution

Speaker 1 (21:12):

If they can. And if my head's down, it's because I just wrote it in my little daily, in front of me book, what, if you are the solution and see where, and when that would appropriately fit in as a question, it's, you know, it's interesting cuz it, it takes me back to my early days of coaching where you know, used to have that list of powerful questions that you got in school and you couldn't wait to use them and you weren't listening to your client cuz you're getting ready to give that perfect question. And in this case, in this case, it's like, I have a perfect question, but I also it's like, okay, it's written down as my dad used to say, you write it down, you can forget it. You can with the piece of paper cuz it's locked in and mm-hmm, <affirmative> being a trained, experienced coach as you are for 20 years.

Speaker 1 (21:54):

We know when it's the right time to do it. But sometimes it's the context with within we, which we come to the call the way, you know, the way we're a part of how we prepare for a call, you know? But I look at the notes, I reflect back on what the client I try to get back in the moment I was in the last time I spoke with that client. But I also wanna prepare for, cause sometimes literally my clients are lost. They don't know what they wanna talk about next. And then, right. So, you know, totally it's kind

Speaker 2 (22:27):

You're you're right on the mark there Absolut and, and the book ultimately was written, you know, coaches were my second sort of audience that I would hope would read, appreciate and use it as much. My primary audience were for readers who are in the workplace, just average people, people who are our clients. Yeah. And, and I wanted to give them hope and inspiration. As I said before, to love what they do, where they do it, who they, they do it with to like rediscover the joy, the fulfillment, the meaning in their work. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I mean, goodness sakes now we're we spend at least half our waking lives at work. If we're not loving that, there's something wrong with this picture. Yeah. You know, and for managers in particular to move beyond sort of the, the, the day to day fires, preventing L slow outside influences from becoming central to their life to slow down, to focus on the people. In fact, if the ultimate, one of the ultimate messages that's in my book is it isn't about it. It's about who people you see it ultimately we're all good at it. Stuff it's being,

Speaker 1 (23:28):

Yeah. We're doers, we're doers, they're doers.

Speaker 2 (23:30):

Right. We, we do like, you know, tasks and processes and plans and strategies and, you know, issue management, all that, that's it stuff. Right. You know, and, and work, I often say jokingly and simplistically work is easy. People are hard And this

Speaker 1 (23:46):

Is about they're so freaking complicated, aren't they, they need

Speaker 2 (23:51):

Coaching. Exactly. They need coaching. Exactly. And so that's what the book is intended to demonstrate to, to people in the workplace. Right? That, that, that, you know, work is easy. People are hard. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and to them, a way to show them through the coaching interactions that take place in the book and the journey to show them that it is very possible. It is very likely. In fact, it's most probable that you can transform yourself, those around you and your organization, regardless of where you're

Speaker 1 (24:17):

In the organization, through that

Speaker 2 (24:20):

I want people to achieve their ambitions without sacrificing their family or their wellbeing. Well,

Speaker 1 (24:27):

It, I, you know, and, and their entire lives like their work life to love going back to work, to overcoming all of this great resignation conversation that's going on. And, and it, you know, it's, I, it's not me. How could it possibly be me? And am I like, well, why not? That's always my question. Why can't it be you? Well, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I, we come back, I use why a lot in coaching actually to dig deeper and deeper and deeper mm-hmm I know originally was taboo, but I use it. So, no, this is all great. And I know our listeners are gaining some from this and I, I have a sense of very excited to, uh, get this book and read it. But, um, before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you what, um, you know, what do you want our readers? And of course, coaches listening to get from this. Sure. Just not even the conversation, the book, the conversation, what's, what's your Pearl of wisdom for them

Speaker 2 (25:24):

Other than <laugh> it's uh, let me start, start off by saying, please do buy the book. Uh, you're gonna, I, I think very much enjoy it. Thank you, Gary, for, for the comments you made earlier. Um, but, but I didn't write it for people just to enjoy a good read. There's plenty of good reads to be had out there. I, I, I did it because I wanted to change the way P people live, work and play together. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I wanted to create workplaces without complaining excuses, powerlessness. I wanted to create an environment where people work and play really well together at may win big where I can go to work and say, T G IM. I'm excited about my work. And I'm excited about the people I do it with. And I know I can't do that just by writing a book, but I do know that if I could start and we can start with a, with a book that offers a little hope and little inspiration that people like yourself and others might try something a little different that you never thought possible or never thought to consider before. That's what I'm hoping this book has done and can create. I, I want us to create an where work is easy. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and people are amazing. Mm-hmm <affirmative> not where work is.

Speaker 1 (26:37):

Oh, don't say don't put the negative in

Speaker 2 (26:39):

The world. You got it. Okay, man. Don't

Speaker 1 (26:41):

You got it. Let's stay on the positive.

Speaker 2 (26:44):

Abso thank you. Thank you for catching that. Yeah. Work is, you know, you know, work is easy. People are amazing. Let's create that world

Speaker 1 (26:51):

Together. Exactly. And George, what I wish for you is that somehow you find out that that's what's happening. Thank you. If people read the book and let you know and reach out to you, cuz it's <affirmative>, it is a great read. It is impactful. And I think it's one of the books that will stay in my shelf. I have very few books in my library, but it's one of those ones that, you know, I like, because it, I can pick it up again and read it again. And probably I'll probably say to myself, did I read this correctly the first time? I don't remember this. I don't remember this. I don't remember that. But anyways, um, but you know what? We've already said it, George, where can people buy the book?

Speaker 2 (27:30):

Uh, it, they probably the best place to start. They can go to Amazon. They can go to indigo. They can go to Barnes and noble or to our publishers freeze and press, uh, probably the best place to start. If they're unsure is to go to my website, leadership, click on the book itself and where to buy it. Little popup window will appear. And you can click the link to take you directly to the favorite retailer that you wanna buy it from. It's not available. I wish it could be, but being an unknown author at this point, I'm not in physical presence in those retailer. Cause that's just the way they operate for the time being. Yeah. Hopefully by book two, that will all change. But the best,

Speaker 1 (28:10):

I'm sorry, George, by what?

Speaker 2 (28:12):

By book two.

Speaker 1 (28:14):

Uh, is there a book two in the works?

Speaker 2 (28:16):

Well thank you for asking because Dakota and I have broken ground on book two and oh

Speaker 1 (28:21):

My God. Okay. Oh yeah. This is like waiting for the next very Potter installment. I can't wait, move over. JK rolling. So I've got my George

Speaker 2 (28:31):

<laugh>. I love it. Thank you. Well, it's still on the horizon and it's a 2022 project, but we broken ground on book two, but uh, Amazon it's available in ebook for fashion and those retailers, I just mentioned it's available in, in paperback and heart cover and the audio book is just come out. So if you're an audible fan or what have you that's

Speaker 1 (28:53):

I might do that. Yeah. Might do that too. That's cool. And uh, guess the best way to reach you through the website or

Speaker 2 (29:00):

Leadership or my email address, which is George

Speaker 1 (29:07):

Yeah, not to be confused with George B,

Speaker 2 (29:10):

Not that's we don't even know who that person is.

Speaker 1 (29:13):

<laugh> oh, come on. It's a huge organization, George. Thank you so much for this beyond the page episode. I'm again, I'm, I'm leaving with something again, outside of the book, if you are the solution, love it. Adding that to the top of my powerful questions. Oh my goodness. So that's it for this episode of beyond the page, uh, please sign up to our email to find previous episodes or subscribe to your favorite podcast app, cuz we're there too. Uh, so that you don't miss any of our informative episodes. If you're interested in getting a free issue of choice magazine, head on over to and click the signup now button, uh, and you'll receive a digital addition in your email. I'm Gary Schleifer enjoy the journey to mastery.