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Episode 162: Trust, Brains, And Better Coaching with guest, Monique Sallaz

• Garry Schleifer

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Trust isn’t a soft skill; it’s a biological signal that tells the brain whether to defend or explore. Garry sits down with Dr. Monique Sallaz—coach, PhD, and expert in applied neuroscience and neurodiversity—to unpack how oxytocin, the amygdala, and the prefrontal cortex shape psychological safety and real behavior change. We move past intuition and into practical science, showing how coaches and leaders can build reliable conditions that let clients think clearly, learn faster, and take brave action.

Monique explains why mistrust often reflects past threat rather than stubbornness, and how to meet resistance with precision instead of pressure. You’ll hear simple, powerful moves: arrive regulated, keep your voice warm, reflect emotion accurately, and center the client as the expert in their life. We also get specific about inclusion—why direct eye contact isn’t universal, how neurodivergent clients experience sessions, and what to ask to tailor safety cues across cultures. Environment design comes to the forefront too: lighting, seating, noise, and especially scent, which has a direct line to memory and emotion and can anchor calm, predictable sessions.

Kindness and gratitude become strategic tools, not platitudes. Micro-affirmations, small acts of care, and clear expectations release oxytocin and quiet the threat response, opening the door to creative problem-solving and sustained change. Whether you’re coaching one-on-one or leading a team, you’ll leave with a practical playbook for building trust on purpose—rooted in neuroscience and ready to use today.

If this conversation shifts how you think about trust, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a quick review so more coaches and leaders can find these tools.

Watch the full interview by clicking here. 

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Monique Sallaz here.

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/

Garry Schleifer:

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest articles, have a chat with a brilliant author like the one right beside me. I don't know which way my head should tilt for that, but there we go. And uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world.

Garry Schleifer:

When you get a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques, and to make a real difference in our clients' lives. Remember, this is your go-to resource for all things coaching. But for now, let's dive into the podcast.

Garry Schleifer:

In today's episode, I'm speaking with coach Monique Salaz, who is the author of an article in our latest issue, Trust. And I don't know if you can, people that are watching can see, but it just came by FedEx. Yay! Trust, Why Is It Intrinsic to Coaching? The article is entitled "The Neuroscience of Trust: How Tapping Into Brain Systems and Circuitry Can Help Trust Flourish." I reread it this morning. Can't wait to talk to you about it. But a little bit about Monique. She has a PhD, she's a CPP, is an expert in applied neuroscience for coaches, and a leading voice on neurodiversity in the workplace. With a background in coaching and adult learning, she bridges science and practice to help coaches and organizations better support diverse cognitive profiles. She designs training programs, creates practical tools, and speaks internationally on neuroinclusion and brain-based coaching. Passionate about making complex neuroscience accessible and actionable, she empowers professionals to foster environments where all minds can thrive. Oh Monique, thank you so much for joining me today.

Monique Sallaz:

Thank you for our invitation, Garry. I'm very happy to be here and very proud to have my paper now in the magazine. I'm very happy about it too. So thank you for your invitation.

Garry Schleifer:

Well, make sure and let everybody know. Um, as I say to all the writers, this is your work as well to market and support your background and whatever's going on for you. So thank you for writing for us. What inspired you to write for us at this time?

Monique Sallaz:

I read different papers and magazine, choice magazine, and I found them very interesting. And I had this idea when you start the magazine with trust , how should I say , thematic. And I thought it would be interesting to talk about a neuroscience point of view. This is always what I I really like to have this, you know, the coaching part and the neuroscience part to explain, to look inside out working. And I thought it would be maybe a good opportunity to send you a paper and see what's going on.

Garry Schleifer:

Well, yeah, right up your alley, and thank you. And I think it's one of the few articles in the issue that brings in neuroscience into the conversation. So thank you. And I'll quote you here , "While we know intuitively that trust is essential, neuroscience offers us a compelling window into why and how trust works and what we can do to deepen it." Thank you. Well said. So speaking of trust, you're mentioning in your article also that trust is a biological process. Can you give us a little bit of an explanation? You talked about oxytocin and other brain systems building trust. Give us an idea of what you're saying in the article for those that are haven't read it yet.

Monique Sallaz:

Yeah, to make it fast, neuroscience brings a lot from my point of view to coaching, just explaining how it works and then how you can make it better. And looking at trust, it's not only something that exists or not, or whatever, it's a biological process. And this was the idea behind the paper. It's a biological process and it's plastic, like the brain. So maybe you are more or less you have more or less trust, or as a coach, you can give more or less trust to your coachee, but the idea is you can work on it. Why? Because it's before all it's a question of neurons, cortical area, and the synaptic connections and chemicals in the brain. So we can see this trust from this point of view, the neuroscience point of view. And then if you accept this, for example, oxytocin is playing a crucial role in trust, it's a love hormone. So it's playing a role not only as a neurotransmitter, but also as an hormone that delivers in the blood and act at different places in the in the body, so not all in the paper. But you have chemicals that are playing a role, you have brain areas like amygdala, who is responsible for starting the fight and flight response when you're afraid by something, for example, and the prefrontal cortex that is more reasoning with empathy and so on, and we decide okay, we can trust or don't trust and do something else, you know.

Monique Sallaz:

So it's all question of like I said before, neurons, brain structure, and so on, biological process, and you can act on this. That if you're a coach and you want to to that your your client develop more trust, because without trust you cannot coach. This is my what I believe, and you can work on it because your brain and the brain of your client are plastic. They can change, you can change the connection in the brain. So you can work on your behavior, and this will help your client also to be more confident and to develop this trust. And because when your brain is oriented toward trust, you're more in a learning stage, and you're not protecting yourself so much, so you are more open to change and so on. So this is very important. I mess a little bit everything, but I'm excited by this subject.

Garry Schleifer:

Well, and it's biology after all, it's not one thing, it's not linear, it's this and that, and they're coming together and under different circumstances. And I love that you mentioned neuroplasticity. I'm sure Dr. JJ Kennedy, Mr. Justin would be thrilled to hear you talk about neuroplasticity. And you also mentioned Paul Zach, who is writing for an upcoming issue. So thank you for that reminder. You said something about trust, but I want to flip the coin on that and say that you also mentioned that some clients may be primed to mistrust due to past experiences. How does the neuroscience perspective change the way we should view resistance?

Monique Sallaz:

Well, you know, if you had some trauma, some difficult life experience, there is also some fears. And so it may be difficult for the person to trust. You may be afraid and and you will have a problem to trust somebody else. But here again, you can work on the process, and as a coach, you can help your client slowly get rid of this blockage and develop trust but it's a different process, and as a coach, you have to be very careful to this.

Garry Schleifer:

So can you give us an example of how one might use it, like a scenario that you speak about in classes or training or that sort of thing?

Monique Sallaz:

Well first thing is to listen to the person. And this is very very important. Another thing as I find crucial as a coach is to believe in your client, they know better than you. So what they feel, you're not here to say you have to do that or to do that, just listen to the person and believe the the client in front of you. They know better than you can know. Another way you can act on this trust feeling is be yourself in a quiet mood, relax. If you arrive completely stressed, then the person in front of you will perceive this stress, and of course, it will be more difficult to trust, to develop trust and quietness. You can also really stop. Okay, you have your life, everything is around, but this moment it's a moment of your client. You have to be focused on what this person is saying and his behavior. And what I didn't mention clearly before is that trust will develop not only with what we are saying, but also with all movement and all we are not saying. So behavior, the posture is very important also to bring trust and to make trust develop in between coach and the client.

Garry Schleifer:

So well it's all sounding like it's more on the coach. There are things you're what you're suggesting are things that the coach can do to build the trust with the client. I really love that that sits with us. And it just supports the fact that one of the main core competencies is established trust.

Monique Sallaz:

Yeah, competencies, because you can develop this trust in your client, of course the brain is more open, ready to learn and ready to change, and you can try something, make mistakes, you feel free to say what you have to say. And if there is not that in between the coach and the client, for me, there is no coaching at all.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. Oh, well, you said it in there, it you said it somewhere about vulnerability. "At its core, trust is about predictability and safety in relationship. We also talked about being vulnerable, and I love what you also say is instill trust in yourself that the client is the expert in their life and their actions and that sort of thing. So yeah, we all learned that in coach training school, different ways of saying it, but we all learned that, so that was great. And I had to laugh when I was rereading the article. When you talked about oxytocin is released during moments of positive social interaction, hugging, which I've been around the coaching industry for a long time, but I still hear stories of the early the four people of coaching. And right from the get-go, the very first conference, they were greeted people at the door with a hug. And it's kind of a joke, but it is a kind of a coach thing. It's like you get to go to coaching things, and I still get weirded up now when I go to a coaching function and somebody puts their hand out to shake my hand, and I go right in for the can I give you a hug? Ask permission, of course. And they're like, Oh, right, we're coaches. Kind of funny, it's kind of funny, but there are other things that I have a question for you, and perhaps you you can help with this. Eye contact. So there are some cultures that eye contact is not a norm, if you will. So how do they, or how do we work with, how do they work with each other to establish trust when they don't make eye contact? Or how do we work with people who don't make eye contact, but we understand it could be a cultural thing?

Monique Sallaz:

Then you have to be aware of this cultural difference, of course, because then you have to know how is working the person. That's why it's so important to be completely open and focused on the person, and eventually to ask if something is disturbing or to establish this confidence. So with people who have cultural difference in this, you have plenty of other things to do. This can be like you said, a big hug, but this is also very little thing from your behavior for everything you can reinsure your client. And this will depend, of course, from the culture of the client.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, okay. Good reminder as well, right? So there's other ways , from what you're saying, there are other ways to build trust and to increase oxytocin. And the final one I love is well, of course, there's active listening. are supposed to be doing that, and they are, don't get me wrong. And acts of kindness releases oxytocin. Oh my goodness. I almost mentioned the love drug versus a different drug. No, that that's but and I can't help but think the other thing that might do it is gratitude. A lot of people are instructed to as part of their reflective process to perhaps consider journaling or listing a gratitude, starting a gratitude journal. So I'm guessing that might be something that that has as well.

Monique Sallaz:

Sure, yes, of course.

Garry Schleifer:

Cool.

Monique Sallaz:

Everything I would say if you're kind with yourself or somebody's kind with you, then you have plenty of oxcytocin, and you can be very happy. This is important not to neglect this very little thing you can do every day that will finally make you happy.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, I love it. Acts of kindness, that's cool. I have to work on that a bit more. Random acts of kindness. So to go back into a little bit more practical part of the conversation. How can I as a coach or leader apply the principles from this article to build trust and psychological safety with my clients? Like you've mentioned some ways, obviously, but is anything else that you want to bring up?

Monique Sallaz:

To establish this, it's just really also what is mentioned in the paper, but really create contact with the person, a real contact. That is you are here for the person in front of you. You're not here for whatever reason. So forget about everything else and concentrate on the person. Really be open here, look at the person, but also about your own behavior, the way you move, the tone of your voice and everything. This is important and you can work on it, and this is a good use. You can really work on it.

Garry Schleifer:

So full permission, how much trust am I offering in this conversation today? Feedback.

Monique Sallaz:

Yes, when we started, you just explained me the way it was going, and this is a first thing for trust, and also you explain that it's like you can drink a coffee and whatever, so you secure myself kind of, and this going on with trust and smiling, of course, and all this thing, then bring trust. If you would arrive completely cold and hello, we are going to talk. You're afraid what's or if you say something like you have to behave or whatsoever, I will talk to you. No, I'm running away from that. So just being kind, but really kind, not yeah, I have to be kind, so I will try to give the impression I'm kind. But for example, if your client and you offer a coffee or you sit there and it's a nice place to be, to sit, and you have a comfortable atmosphere, h maybe some very nice smell, you know, this relaxing smell or whatsoever. These are little things, but in particular with the smell, this is a tip I can give because I make my PhD on smell.

Garry Schleifer:

Really?

Monique Sallaz:

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer:

What was the thesis?

Monique Sallaz:

The expression of the proto-oncogen, a certain proto-oncogene in the olfactory system to see the plasticity of the ol factory system. And uh this is the the strongest memory you can build, the olfactory memory. And to give a nice smell to your place when people are coming, this is very important. It's like Madeleine de Proust, you know, you see a piece of cake, you smell this cake, and you remember a whole story. And for these people smelling something nice, uh that they like make them comfortable, because in between the olfactory system and the amygdala and the limbic system, there is only one neuron, right? It's direct. So don't forget this the smell is very important. So the light, everything, and your movement and whatsoever, think about the smell. This is the trick I can give you.

Garry Schleifer:

No kidding, no kidding. You're just having me remember things like Thanksgiving and having a turkey and how the smell of the turkey fills the room. And if you go somewhere and you smell that, you're like, oh, turkey and pumpkin pie and things like that.

Monique Sallaz:

Exactly. Exactly.

Garry Schleifer:

Wow, really get the oxytocin.

Monique Sallaz:

So don't make the mistake of course to make the just the smell the person doesn't like because it would be difficult.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, but that's good point, good point. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you very much for for speaking with us today. What would you like our audience to do as a result of the article and this conversation?

Monique Sallaz:

Just see this trust. I guess if they are all coaches and and they know that they cannot coach without trust. But just see the thing a bit different. You can work on it, you can change the way you produce trust with your client, you can really work on it, and because it's a biological process, right? So it's plastic, it can change, you can learn, you can make new connections in your brain, and you yourself also can develop your own self-confidence. But you can help your coachee and you can trade for this.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. Thank you. I have to say I really love the contribution that you've made today because there's some things that I guess I'd always done that I take for granted. I don't know if it was a skill or intuitively, and I'm learning that I can be better, or a reminder of the things that I can do and the things that I do that instill trust in my conversations with my clients.

Monique Sallaz:

Sure. And this is, you know, one says that coaches they have always to learn something new all along the career, of course, you have to improve yourself all the time, but you can also improve you, the way you behave, the way you move, the way you inspire confidence and so on. Not only theory and whatsoever, you can also work on it, and it's working.

Garry Schleifer:

It is, thank you. And you've given some great tips today, and also some in the article. So thank you very much. And feel free to write for us again.

Monique Sallaz:

With pleasure, I will do it, sure.

Garry Schleifer:

Monique, what's the best way for our listeners and readers to reach you?

Monique Sallaz:

To reach me with my email. I'm, at the moment, changing website and so on, with a website special for neurodiversity and a website special for neuroscience and formation for coaches. So, but at the moment, if you want to reach me, zebrologieetcie.com and my email so monique.sallaz@zebrologieetcie.com. That you can reach me, no problem, and I will answer all the questions and so on. So with pleasure, because as you understood, this is a little bit patient for me. This looks how it building, it's working inside.

Garry Schleifer:

It's an inside job, they like to say, right? Yeah so uh just for our listeners, it's again it's zebrologieetcie. com.

Monique Sallaz:

Perfect.

Garry Schleifer:

And it's in the magazine, folks. So go get a copy and read it. It's in the contributor section.

Monique Sallaz:

Don't miss the magazine. It's very it's very, very good. Don't miss the magazine.

Garry Schleifer:

Thank you. Oh, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you for so much for joining us for this Beyond the Page episode, Monique. Really appreciate your time today.

Monique Sallaz:

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Garry Schleifer:

That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, most likely the one that got you here, or our website, choice-online.com\ podcasts. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine, you can sign up for free for a free digital issue by scanning the QR code in the top right hand corner of our screen, right over my shoulder. Or if you're listening, go to choice online.com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.