Episode 196: Coaching in Chaos ~ Leadership In A Reactive World with guest, Doreen Steenland

Your brain loves predictability, but leadership rarely offers it anymore. When stress and urgency become the norm, even the most capable leaders can lose access to their best thinking and default to old autopilot patterns. That’s not a character flaw, it’s a nervous system response, and it’s exactly where executive coaching can create real change.

I’m joined by executive coach and former RN Doreen Steenland, author of “The Conscious Leader: Coaching for Embodied Leadership in a Reactive World.” We dig into what embodied leadership actually looks like under real-world pressure, why “just be calm” advice falls short, and how somatic coaching and applied neuroscience help leaders move from reactivity to choice. Doreen unpacks integrated intelligence beyond the purely cognitive lens: interoception, exteroception, proprioception, and emotion as practical pathways to deeper self-awareness and stronger decision-making.

We also explore emotional contagion and why a grounded, steady presence can shift an entire room. From internal authority versus performing confidence to boundary setting with “full-body yeses” and “full-body no’s,” you’ll hear concrete ways to build psychological flexibility and stay connected to yourself when it matters most. If you lead teams through sustained stress, rapid change, or organizational disruption, this conversation offers a clear, usable framework for nervous system regulation and conscious leadership.

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Watch the full interview by clicking here. 

Find the full article here. 

Learn more about Doreen here.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Garry Schleifer 0:07

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into this latest article, have a chat with this brilliant author beside me, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. When you have a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques, and as we like to say, the coaching profession, make a real difference in our clients' lives. That's what we love to do. It's your go-to resource for all things coaching, but for now, let's dive in. In today's episode, I'm speaking with executive coach Doreen Steenland, who is the author of an article in our latest issue, Coaching in Chaos. Her article is entitled The Conscious Leader: Coaching for Embodied Leadership in a Reactive World. A little bit about uh Doreen. She's an RN. She's got a PCC Executive Coach, facilitator, and author with more than three decades of experience in high-pressure medical and organizational environments. Obviously, as an RN, she's a former registered nurse. Doreen, are you a nurse for life or are you a former nurse?

Doreen Steenland 1:30

You're always a nurse. Once a nurse, always a nurse.

Garry Schleifer 1:34

Okay. Her work focuses on helping leaders build applied emotional intelligence, presence, and decision-making capacity in complex systems. Grounded in applied neuroscience, trauma and forward leadership, and professional coaching standards, she works with senior leaders, coaches in organizations navigating sustained stress, rapid change, and organizational disruption. Her approach emphasizes embodied leadership, nervous system awareness, and practical application under real world real world pressure. Oh, Doreen, thank you so much for joining me today. I normally would have asked what inspired you to write an article for us, but it's like your life the way I'm reading it, right?

Doreen Steenland 2:18

Yes, yeah. So for a lot of years, you know, I have been working with the nervous system formally and informally, because in high stress situations, the nervous system is what kicks in first, right? So the more we can become aware of what's happening inside, the higher functioning we can become on the outside.

Garry Schleifer 2:48

Wow. Well said. Yeah, well said. Well, in your article, you talk about leaders and what they're going through and the whole situation with chaos that's become, as they say, the new normal.

Why Smart Leaders Still React

Garry Schleifer 3:00

It's not a one and done, it just stays. Why do so many highly intelligent and experienced leaders still struggle to access what they already know under pressure?

Doreen Steenland 3:12

Yeah, so what happens is that we feel pressure inside, we feel some sensation, and most of us have trained ourselves to stuff that down and self-abandon. And we rely on our old autopilot responses, right? So, you know, the autopilot is not a bad thing, the brain functions and it's actually helpful for us, but it's only helpful when those patterns are still useful, right? Like some of our patterns that we've learned in the past are no longer serving us. So when we're reacting from those patterns that no longer serve us, we kind of disconnect from ourselves in the middle of that pressure. And so a lot of the work that I do is I help leaders to regain access to their wisdom, presence, and choice. And so it's interesting that I wrote for choice magazine. Right? We we want to be able to have choice in those high stress moments so that we can instead of reacting from a state of possibly dysregulation, an old pattern that's running its loop, so that we can respond in a way that affects the people around us in a positive way instead of a negative way. Because we know from neuroscience that there's mirror neurons in our brain, and what we are presenting in a room gets transmitted. That's called emotional contagion. And so the more we can show up as a grounded, centered presence, the more we're gonna affect our society, our world, our offices, our hospitals, wherever we're serving, we can influence that for for positive.

Garry Schleifer 5:30

Yeah. And you know, you bring up a really good point because then I'm left wondering like, how do they like I'm gonna read something you wrote and then I'll carry on. Most leaders are capable, many are experienced, yet breakdowns persist, not because leaders lack skill or intelligence, because but because they're being asked to lead from a nervous system from nervous systems under continuous strain. So I guess the question for me is what you said is kind of like when it happens, but what's that next level of help or coaching that we can offer them when it's a continuous pressure on the system, when chaos is always

What Embodiment Coaching Means

Garry Schleifer 6:10

there.

Doreen Steenland 6:11

Yeah. So part of the work that I do is really about embodiment coaching. And so, what is embodiment coaching? It's closing the gap between being and doing, and it's activating the body to unlock new ways of being, of experiencing our environment. And we do it through pattern recognition, state and trait management, nervous system regulation, using somatic practices, and a lot of self-awareness, right? This allows us to tap into the wisdom that's already inside of us. You know, we can change our body's patterns and our thinking patterns will then follow. And so most of us as coaches, we rely a whole lot on the cognitive part of our job, right? We want to change people's thoughts, we want to change but what we're missing potentially is the other integrated intelligence that exists inside of us. There, you know, we know from a neuroscience standpoint that there's interception, it's what's happening inside of us, right? The sensations that we respond to. There's extrasception, it's like what's happening outside of us. What are we sensing? What are we smelling? What are we hearing? What are we touching? All of those things are affecting our our reactions and our responses. Proprioception, like where our body is in space right now, right? And then there's the emotional, which we tend to shy away from as coaches. But here's where the gold lies, okay, because emotion is the bridge between the embodied and the conceptual. And if we could just embrace that sensations are just a normal part of life, right? We can then tap into a deeper level in our clients and make lasting changes. Because all of that that embodied stuff is happening at the subconscious level, right? We have clients that can come and they can tell us, yes, I need to rest, I need self-care, they will recite the prescription.

Garry Schleifer 8:45

Yeah, we know what to do.

Doreen Steenland 8:46

We know what to do, right? So this work helps us engage at a deeper level what we already know in our heads to our hearts and our bodies and our hands, so that we're actually living it out.

Garry Schleifer 9:00

I love that the difference between being and doing. I did a personal development course back in the late 90s, and we had distinctions about being versus doing. I'm also going to quote what you wrote in the article: being a conscious leader does not mean being calm at all times, nor does it mean being above emotional response.

Doreen Steenland 9:21

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer 9:21

Yeah.

Doreen Steenland 9:22

Yeah. So what's interesting

Beyond Calm: Emotions As Data

Doreen Steenland 9:25

is, you know, we're being flooded now with information from the internet. People have got neuroscience tips up the kazoo, right? Anywhere you look, we've got these fast neuroscience resets, right? And what they're missing is that there's a deeper level of work that needs to be done. It's not always about being calm. They would say, like, we want to be calm. No, emotions, the full range of emotions. What we're talking about when we're talking about really embodiment coaching is building in state and trait changes, right? So these trait changes are really just who we're becoming when there's fire added to us, right? So instead of just being calm all the time, we can have the emotion of anger and get curious, like what is that anger trying to inform us, right? Maybe the company values are being trampled upon, right? Maybe there's a personal value that's being poked, right?

Garry Schleifer 10:47

Yeah.

Doreen Steenland 10:47

It's just inviting curiosity. And when we can be present, when the outside world is spinning faster, we can be present with our inside self. We can gain that wisdom. Now MIT and the Presencing Institute is really taking this deeper. They're saying that, you know, the outside world is spinning faster and faster, it requires courage from us to slow down so we can notice what's emerging around us, right? And this work takes it deeper because we're then sensing into what's happening around us, and we're able to tap into intuition, and that kind of scares us as coaches too, because we don't really know how to explain all of it, right?

Garry Schleifer 11:45

Oh goodness no, which is why sometimes we used to say, oh, it's very woo-woo. Yes, but you're tapping into those things like intuition, yeah.

Doreen Steenland 11:57

Right. Like, so why are some leaders so exceptional? And others are, you know, just doing the status quo. What makes them exceptional is that they're tapping into the their intuition, the wisdom, like the felt sense that something in this meeting is emerging and I need to create space for that instead of just going through the itinerary, right? They're moving with their environment and open to learning and being curious and and they're not fearful of what's gonna show up, right?

Garry Schleifer 12:42

It sounds like what it takes to be a coach in an NCT, not being afraid of what's showing up.

Doreen Steenland 12:48

Yes, right, yes, and we talk a lot about presence as coaching, right? And presence isn't something we do, it's something we are, yeah, right?

Garry Schleifer 13:03

Yeah, yeah, like it looks like and sounds like, and it's practiced as doing, but it's a very being state. Yes, yes, and Doreen, I really love what you said earlier, too, about leaders getting grounded. You know, there's a lot of talk about like how can I stop and take the time to get grounded? Well, how can you afford not to because the cost is too high? But sometimes it takes a while for them to see that. A friend of mine, Janet Harvey, says a pause gives more than it takes.

Doreen Steenland 13:37

Ah, yes. Oh, that resonates with me so so much.

Garry Schleifer 13:41

Oh, I so same here.

Doreen Steenland 13:44

I mean, we are just so accustomed to speed and urgency driving everything. We're in a microwave culture, right? That where we are, let's face it. So we got fast action, fast, and when we are reacting from this state of urgency, we're missing so much. When we can just slow ourselves down, we can create from what's happening around us instead of allowing those strong patterns of the past to control us, right? Look, the brain is gonna reward us for predictability, it loves predictability, right? So it'll say, okay, you've done it like this in the past and it works. So let's just keep doing that, right? It requires a real leadership to sit with that discomfort that the urgency is bringing, right? And be able to notice it and say, hmm, I wonder what this is all about in the middle, instead of reacting, maybe it's inviting your team to step into that uncertainty too. Look, I'm feeling a lot of big emotions here. I'm feeling a lot of energy. Can we just take a moment and pause and see what emerges, right? Like if we started doing that as leaders, our world we can really impact the world. I believe that this is ground zero for us as leaders, as world changers, that we can learn to embrace the uncertainty and get comfortable being uncomfortable. It's true in coaching, it's true in leadership, it's true in the world. The best leaders are not uncomfortable when there's something new emerging, they're curious.

Garry Schleifer 15:56

Yeah. Wow, that's interesting because one of the things I was considering asking you was the talking about the difference between a leader who's performing confidence and a leader's leading from internal authority. And I think it was in your article, and I think you're kind of alluding to that now. Expand

Internal Authority Versus Performance

Garry Schleifer 16:15

on that concept for me.

Doreen Steenland 16:17

Yeah, so so when you have internal authority, you're not abandoning yourself, you're not abandoning the sensations, you're not stuffing them down, you're not trying to push aside the emotions and just get through this day, get through this meeting. How many of our clients, I just have to get through this next project? How many times do they say that, right? Yeah, when we have internal authority, we're able to pause and allow whatever's happening to be there without having to change it, right? It's not something that we're trying to push away. And most leaders that I know are living their life just stuffing everything down, right? So when we are working on this, I mean, this is really the work that I do. I restore people's internal authority, right? That is kind of how I help people because all of these high capacity leaders, they've got skills, they know how to solve problems. What they don't know is how to connect with themselves in the middle because they've spent years pushing and pushing all that aside.

Garry Schleifer 17:40

You know, and then I want to connect back to because I got really excited about where you said that they don't they're afraid to honor the emotions.

Doreen Steenland 17:47

Yes.

Garry Schleifer 17:48

And yet that's such a gold mine, as you said, of of information and opportunity. I love it when that comes up because there's you know the values thing, right? Unfulfilled expectations lead to upsets. So what else is possible? So giving them different ways to frame or reframe or think about going taking a step back to move forward.

Doreen Steenland 18:12

Yes.

Garry Schleifer 18:13

Right. Yeah.

Doreen Steenland 18:14

And so, you know, there's those five areas of integrated intelligence I talked about earlier. And I want to credit Amanda Blake, who's a big wig in the somatic world.

Garry Schleifer 18:27

Amanda is, yes. Yeah.

Doreen Steenland 18:29

So Amanda Blake talks about these five pathways of integrated intelligence, right? And as coaches, we stick with the cognitive most times, and so we've got to start tapping into the interoception, the extraception, the proprioception, and the emotion and bring that into our coaching so that our clients can have deeper transformation, deeper access to choice.

Garry Schleifer 19:00

Yes, we love everyone having access to choice, but the other one too. Yes, yes, no, that's great. Well said, yeah. Mandy's written for us before, and we hope you write for us again too. Just we'll put that in there, putting that out there already.

Doreen Steenland 19:19

Thank you so much. I'd be honored. Mandy has influenced me for the last decade. I feel like her work has been groundbreaking, and now there are so many people doing that deeper work of somatic and and embodied leadership. I'm just so excited about it. It's impacted my clients.

Garry Schleifer 19:44

Doreen, I can hardly tell. You're literally leaping out of your chair. Okay, you know that, right? No, I know there's no apologies requested here, merely an observation. You're in your joy zone.

Doreen Steenland 19:57

Yes, I am. I really am, and I love the work that I get to do. I love that I get to be with ICF New Jersey and walk alongside coaches, helping them apply neuroscience to their coaching. That brings me joy. Yeah, so this is this is the work I love to do.

Boundaries And Full-Body Yeses

Doreen Steenland 20:20

This is what I was created for.

Garry Schleifer 20:22

Now I'm just kind of putting it on the spot, but do you have any examples of the impact of your work?

Doreen Steenland 20:29

Yeah, so I think you know, most people will know that they need to set boundaries.

Garry Schleifer 20:40

It's one of those things that everybody knows that they need to do and how to do it, but they don't do it.

Doreen Steenland 20:45

That's right. But they don't know how to tap into the discomfort that they're feeling when that boundary is about to be crossed. I mean, this is a huge thing that I work with with the body, and it just comes up naturally. It's not about our clients not knowing how to set boundaries. They know they need to say no. And they know they need to, they know they need to, and yet they're the urgency and that sensation in their body is driving them to say yes, so they're not having these full-body yeses, right? Because, and then afterwards they say yes and they have regret, right? I want to help people not live with regret, right? I want them to experience full body yeses, full body no's, and be okay with that discomfort.

Garry Schleifer 21:47

Oh, do you are you aware of the book Power Of A Positive No?

Doreen Steenland 21:51

Oh no, I'm gonna have to get that.

Garry Schleifer 21:53

Oh, that well, you're already speaking to that songbook, and it's about having an empowering yes, an empowering no, and another it's a yes, no, yes model.

Doreen Steenland 22:04

Ah, yes.

Garry Schleifer 22:05

And I've been practicing it, so I'm not an expert in it, but basically, it's around those same things about saying, 'Yes, I agree, that's an important, but no, in light of this other priority I have going on,' nd hen es, ow an e enegotiate? o it's basicu're saying. So yeah, I love those conversations.

Doreen Steenland 22:26

This is just one example, right? It goes when you when I help people restore their internal authority, that's just one tiny example of embodiment that feels uncomfortable. We are functioning in discomfort all day, and we're not noticing it, we're pushing itside. So, what I help people do is really build their range so that they can be psychologically flexible. Let's just put it that way.

Garry Schleifer 22:56

Oh, and well said. I like that term. Psychologically flexible.

Doreen Steenland 23:01

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer 23:03

Wow. So what else, final words, what else would you have wanted to say, maybe that you didn't get in the article, or something that you really want people to walk away with from our call or

Presence That Changes The Room

Garry Schleifer 23:15

the article?

Doreen Steenland 23:16

I think what I really want people to understand is presence that's steady changes a room, changes the dynamic of a room, changes the world that we live in. And I feel like we need to become more in tune with ourselves so that we can affect the world around us. I've been saying this for decades. We need to connect to effect, not just with other people, but with ourselves.

Garry Schleifer 23:57

Interesting, you should say connection. That's one of the sources of joy.

Doreen Steenland 24:03

Yes.

Garry Schleifer 24:04

Is connection. Purpose, meaning, values, connection, community.

Doreen Steenland 24:13

Yes, beautiful. And you know, the pressure in our world doesn't really create who we become, right? It just reveals the patterns that are underwhelming.

Garry Schleifer 24:26

Can it reveal? Can it reveal a lot? Right?

Doreen Steenland 24:30

Like so the question isn't whether they're capable or not, right? The question is can you still access yourself when it matters most? Oh, and the pressure is higher.

Garry Schleifer 24:42

And finding out who the real self is sometimes they've never uncovered, and they're like, Oh, wow, I never knew that about myself.

Doreen Steenland 24:52

Yes, and that is what we do as coaches, right? We're just shining a light on the places that are hidden beneath the surface.

Garry Schleifer 25:04

Peeling away the onion.

Doreen Steenland 25:05

There you go.

Garry Schleifer 25:07

And there's crying involved. And I have no fear about that. I have it's actually a blessing to be working with someone that feels that comfortable with you that they can openly cry in the conversation. Yeah, because it's not about you, it's about what's going on for them. And to be witness to that emotion, it goes back to the conversation about emotion, is an honor. It's an honor. And then I jokingly hand a Kleenex through the screen, but that's just me and my sense of humor.

Doreen Steenland 25:41

And it's so interesting because like the best coaching conversations, as a coach, we walk away feeling like we didn't do anything. We walk away feeling like we didn't say much, right? But there the client comes back and says, that was the best.

Garry Schleifer 26:04

Isn't that crazy?

Doreen Steenland 26:05

And you walk away feeling insecure. You're like, I really didn't say anything. Yeah, yeah, we created space for what was underneath the surface to come to the surface.

Garry Schleifer 26:17

Yeah. Oh, I Doreen, I've had calls where I'm like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And at the end I say, So what are you taking away from today's call?

Doreen Steenland 26:30

Yeah, right.

Garry Schleifer 26:31

This was a like to your point, this was an amazing call. And I'm like, and I was just present, uh-huh, uh-huh. So they knew I was still alive. But and then hearing them say sometimes, wow, I've never told anyone else that. Yes, right. So that's when you know you're peeling helping them peel away and revealing and supporting. Yeah.

Doreen Steenland 26:56

Absolutely, absolutely.

Garry Schleifer 26:58

We could go on and on. Doreen, thank you so much for writing for us. Don't be a one-hit wonder, come on back anytime. and for being on our podcast. Thoroughly enjoyed this. Learned as I always want to do. I love to tell people these podcasts and articles are for my learning, and they just happen to be the lucky recipient. Okay.

How To Connect And Closing

Doreen Steenland 27:20

So thank you so much for having me.

Garry Schleifer 27:24

Oh, our pleasure. What's the best way to reach you?

Doreen Steenland 27:28

Doreen Steenland.com.

Garry Schleifer 27:31

Oh, that's easy.

Doreen Steenland 27:33

My name. Yeah.

Garry Schleifer 27:35

Exactly. Super easy.

Doreen Steenland 27:37

Super easy. There's an internal authority assessment there if you want to see which area you might need to grow in.

Garry Schleifer 27:48

Right.

Doreen Steenland 27:49

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer 27:49

Oh, well, there is a great offer, everyone.

Doreen Steenland 27:52

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer 27:53

Doreen. I was about to say Noreen. DoreenSteenland.com Lots of ease.

Doreen Steenland 28:00

Yes.

Garry Schleifer 28:00

And a D at either end. I like that.

Doreen Steenland 28:03

Yes. Love it.

Garry Schleifer 28:05

Yeah. All right. Thanks again.

Doreen Steenland 28:07

Thank you, Garry.

Garry Schleifer 28:09

That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, Spotify, Apple, whatever, or go to our website, choice-online.com forward slash podcasts. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine, you can sign up and you're watching this video. You can sign up for your free digital issue by scanning the QR code in the top right corner of our screen. If you're listening to this on audio, please pull over the car, get off the treadmill, get off the bike, and go to choice- online.com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.