Episode #236 - Tesla Kills Icons, China EVs Surge, and the Awards That Define the Year

In Episode 236, Tu and Lei deliver one of their most wide-ranging and revealing conversations yet—covering Tesla’s strategic retreat from cars, China’s accelerating dominance in EVs, autonomy, and robotics, and unveiling the inaugural China EVs & More Awards - the EVies

The episode opens with Tesla’s bombshell earnings call: the Model S and Model X are effectively retired, revenues decline for a second straight year, yet the stock rallies on promises of robotaxis, robotics, and AI abundance. Tu and Lei explain why Wall Street is betting on a future Tesla that is no longer a car company—and why China’s crowded robotaxi and robotics markets make that future far less certain than investors believe.

They contrast Tesla’s promises with reality on the ground in China, where BYD, NIO, XPeng, Huawei, Geely, and Xiaomi are rapidly upgrading ADAS, launching new models, and redefining value. The discussion highlights how Western media is only now “discovering” vehicles like the Xiaomi SU7 and YU7, despite Chinese OEMs offering Model 3/Y-level features at half the price.

The second half of the episode introduces the China EVs & More Awards, recognizing the companies, products, and people that defined the year—while exposing who fell behind. From Zombie Company of the Year to EV of the Year, the awards spark debate around survival, execution, and scale in the world’s most competitive auto market.

The episode closes with a sober look at automation, delivery, labor displacement, and UBI, asking whether autonomy will ultimately create abundance—or social shock—across global mobility systems.

Insightful, provocative, and data-driven, this episode explains why China EV Inc. is no longer the future—it’s the present.

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🔑 SEO-Friendly Keywords (for description / Apple Podcasts)

China EVs & More, Tu Le, Lei Xing, Sino Auto Insights, Tesla earnings 2026, Model S discontinued, Model X discontinued, Tesla robotaxi strategy, Tesla FSD China, Xiaomi SU7, Xiaomi YU7, Chinese EV competition, EV price war China, robotaxi China, Waymo vs Tesla, BYD ADAS upgrade, NIO world model ADAS, Huawei autonomous driving, premium EV China, Porsche China collapse, battery swapping BAAS, EV awards China, Geely Xingyuan EV, Leapmotor growth, Momenta ADAS, Aito M9, Buick GL8 China

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⏱️ Chapter Timestamps (for YouTube description)

00:00 – Welcome & episode overview

01:10 – Tesla earnings shock: Model S & X phased out

03:00 – Tesla as a holding company, not a car company

05:20 – Why Wall Street still rewards Tesla

07:00 – FSD approval in China: promise vs reality

09:00 – China ADAS arms race: BYD, NIO, Huawei, XPeng

11:00 – Western media “discovers” Xiaomi EVs

13:00 – Why Chinese EV features cost half as much

15:10 – Robotaxis: Waymo vs Tesla vs China

17:00 – China EVs & More Awards intro

18:15 – Zombie Company of the Year: WM Motor

19:50 – Who Dis Award: Dreame

22:30 – Tech That Matters: Momenta

25:00 – Company That Needs a Hug: Porsche

27:20 – Flop of the Year: Li Auto i8

29:40 – Dark Horse of the Year: Leapmotor

32:10 – Comeback Kid: NIO ES8

35:00 – Executive of the Year: Zhu Jiangming (Leapmotor)

36:30 – Luxury Car of the Year: Aito M9

38:30 – MPV of the Year: Buick GL8

40:00 – SUV of the Year: Xiaomi YU7

41:40 – EV of the Year: Geely Xingyuan

44:00 – Automation, delivery & labor disruption

47:00 – UBI, AI abundance & social impact

49:00 – Final thoughts & call for audience input

Transcript

Tu Le (00:00)
Hi, everyone, and welcome to the China EVs and More podcast, where my co-host Lei Xing, will go over the week's most interesting and important news coming out of the global EV-AV mobility sectors. What Lei and I discuss
 
 Today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome. And to our loyal listeners and viewers, welcome back. Make sure to hit that like and subscribe button so you don't miss anything from us in the future and help us get the word up about this podcast because we're in a very important time in the global automotive space. And I think more and more people are starting to wake up to
 
 China EV Inc. To Lei's point, the Wall Street Journal tech analyst who just effusively praised the SU7 that she drove. my name is Tu Le I am the managing director at Sino Auto Insights, global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from.
 
You can sign up for that. Sinoautoinsights.substack.com, which of course I encourage you all to do Lei
 
 Can you please introduce yourself?
 
 Lei Xing (01:10)
 Good morning, this is Lei, former chief editor of China Auto Review, and this is episode 236. Happy birthday to the automobile, 140th, which happened yesterday. While one S gets an upgrade, the other S gets honorably discharged.
 
 That was an interesting comparison kind of happening on the same day almost. And I'm speaking obviously of the S class that was announced yesterday and the Model S and X that are going to be history in a few months.
 
 I think that was one of the major headlines and combining the earnings call from Tesla two days ago. It was shocking, right? It was a bit shocking. But when it comes to Elon, nothing's shocking, right? So we begin there. I mean, what do think?
 
 They lack products, but they're killing products. But again, they don't want to be a car company. So just.
 
 Tu Le (02:08)
 It just reinforces. ‚Åì
 
 And now they're talking about consolidating everything into what it looks like to be a holding company. So, you know, SpaceX, XAI, things like that. So I had spoken with Alan Ohnsman who writes for Forbes a while back. And he alluded to the fact that if you look through the lens, that everything is being built for Mars.
 
 Inhabitation and exploration, then it makes much more sense what Elon is doing. I think he's also trying to make sure that.
 
 the stock can continue to be pumped up and the charade of Tesla being a car manufacturer is kind of lost when revenue goes down, sales go down for two consecutive years and still no new products. So was it surprising that he made that announcement two days ago? Yes. Was it shocking? No.
 
 because those cars, I think total about 3 % of sales. So they were pretty much a three in a Y company already anyways.
 
 Lei Xing (03:21)
 They're very nostalgic. I Model S is what in the early years when they won the Motor Trend Car of the Year, I think 2013, right? I think it was 2013 Car of the Year voted at end of 2012. That's 14 years ago. 13 years ago. That's what put Tesla on the map, right? Kind of almost. And yeah, it wasn't surprising given the fact that the S and X
 
 is infinitesimal, right? Among all the, at least the sales. And it was the first year ever in the history of the company that revenues were down.
 
 and the stock actually went up. Which I kind of look at it as how much of the 1.5 trillion in valuation is banked on future. Probably at least two-thirds of it.
 
 At least a trillion is banked on the promises and the optimists, the cybercab, RoboTaxi, banking on those scaling. Yeah, so and it's a 4D chess game that I think Elon's still, maybe after a few years, we'll see whether this is the right.
 
 Tu Le (04:12)
 More than two thirds.
 
 Lei Xing (04:30)
 right, moves that he's making. But his erratic behavior and the moves, those are never new. And the, is all the interesting.
 
 Tu Le (04:40)
 So.
 
 What I've written in the newsletter a long time ago was that
 
 Lei Xing (04:42)
 And I'm.
 
 Tu Le (04:48)
 Elon figured out that building a model two or designing engineering a model two was just not going to make sense because the Chinese electric vehicle manufacturers.
 
 Lei Xing (04:56)
 You said it was futile, right?
 
 Tu Le (04:59)
 Futile, yes. The other thing too is that ‚Åì
 
 The OEMs have caught up effectively as well because the 3 & Y without the supercharging network and without FSD, they're just, they're kind of sort of like ride-hailing cars. The difference maker is really the FSD and the supercharging. So.
 
 Lei Xing (05:20)
 I think it's good that you mentioned FSD because we've seen Elon often promising this and that on FSD and FSD getting approval in China, I think this year probably will be more critical for Tesla than launching a Model 2 or cheaper Model 3 or Y. They may still do that.
 
 But when that happens, I don't know. think it would be a huge event. Because just this morning, this Tesla sales sent me a message. And she asked me, do you want to try FSD?
 
 I'm not breaking anything, but who knows? Maybe it's close.
 
 Tu Le (06:08)
 So here's the
 
 crazy thing that I also want to emphasize, He's going to focus on robotics and autonomy, robotaxies, and the Western investors eat that stuff up, okay? To the tune of a $1.4 trillion company. Even as he announces that the current revenue generators for Tesla, two of them are getting canceled because they weren't.
 
 significant revenue generators and there's no plans, at least he's not articulating any plans for investment to upgrade the three and the Y. And then we see the article from Joanna Stern, want to say, who's the Wall Street Journal tech reporter. She's effusive in her praise of the SU7 a la Jim Farley. OK, this is old news.
 
 Wall Street Journal is just super duper late to the party. What Western investors also obviously don't understand is that like the EV space, the robotics space in China is really crowded and the robotaxi space is really crowded in China too. So that is the canary in the coal mine because Tesla doesn't have blue ocean.
 
 In robotics or robotaxis - Robotaxis, the 800 pound gorilla is Waymo. It's not Tesla. You know that I know that. And then the amount of capital that's needed to fund robotaxis and humanoids is going to be enormous. Okay. And that's where we get into the true tech companies that are much more valuable than Tesla currently. Nvidia.
 
 Apple, Amazon, because they have much more money to throw around than the current set of OEMs, which he effectively is now not going to compete with on the Tesla passenger vehicle side in the near future. At least that's what I got, the impression I got from the analyst call, so earnings call.
 
 Lei Xing (08:00)
 You know
 
 the price war over the last three or four years, 23, four, five, six, now this is fourth year of the price war. And Tesla every year is either in the middle of it or starting something. So they started this seven year low interest financing, which has become another standard of others following suit.
 
 What are you gonna do next year? Nine years, zero interest financing, low interest financing? ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (08:37)
 Here's the other
 
 thing that's really important that I don't think people have really pointed to in the West. Elon two weeks ago said FSD is approval in China is, you know, imminent. The Chinese government was like, no, no, it's not.
 
 Lei Xing (08:49)
 in IB, but I don't
 
 know, is that not yet?
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (08:54)
 So that could possibly never happen. That is a reality that people need to come to grips with.
 
 You know, like...
 
 I don't know. Maybe it happens at the end of this year. I don't know if it happens in the next six months. My bet is that it doesn't.
 
 Lei Xing (09:09)
 and how while as the other competitors are pushing out new features, right? We heard BYD upgraded their God's Eye and then NIO put in this new world model, new world model upgraded the ADAS features. I think when FSD, if and it does gets approved, when it's pushed out, what kind of capability does it have initially?
 
 ‚Åì versus how fast it iterates like what's happening in the US. It all has to do, and especially with with momenta,
 
 Horizon are all launching their own kind of versions of FSDs while Mercedes working with Nvidia to launch their FSD-like feature on the CLA, right? These are all coming.
 
 So Tesla is not alone. They're still at the top. They may still be the benchmark. But it's getting crowded, I think, in all facets of the game, right? Whether it's models competing, whether it's features, whether it's the, you know, right, ADAS.
 
 It's not getting easier. And yes, Elon did mention that he sees the only competitors in the robots are from the Chinese.
 
 Tu Le (10:17)
 So he's paying respect to them, but investors are not.
 
 Lei Xing (10:22)
 Yeah, like, you know, he probably should. I'm thinking of Jensen Huang's trip to China this week. Right? How do you kiss up? How do you? It's trying to be like a normal citizen, right?
 
 Tu Le (10:32)
 Everybody just think about how many times Jensen Huang
 
 has been in China in the last 14 to 16 months. It's gotta be five, six times, four or five times.
 
 Lei Xing (10:43)
 Yeah, yeah, something
 
 like that.
 
 and they're still figuring out the H20 chips, right?
 
 Tu Le (10:46)
 He knows where his bread is buttered.
 
 H200?
 
 Lei Xing (10:50)
 H200, yeah.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (10:51)
 So
 
 I
 
 Let's talk about the ES8 and the ES9. Let's give NIO some love.
 
 Lei Xing (10:58)
 Well, bigger is bigger, right? And, I tweeted something.
 
 Tu Le (11:03)
 It's
 
 the size of an Escalade. The ES9 is the size of an Escalade.
 
 Lei Xing (11:08)
 Well, here's one way to see it. I tweeted that there's the Tang there's the Tang L, there's the big Tang. So there's the ES6, there's the ES8, and then there's the ES9. And you can't go any further up because nine in Chinese is the biggest number in terms of hierarchy, right? And it's also...
 
 these bunch of nines that are coming, right? The Tang from BYD is kind of like the ES9 size. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (11:35)
 Yes.
 
 And this is where the US automakers again need to pay special attention.
 
 People were saying the Chinese aren't doing pickups. They are doing pickups. Chery just launched a pickup. BYD has the Shark. Great Wall Motors has SUVs and pickups. So now we look at the Tang L, the large Tang, the ES9. You don't think that American consumers
 
 Lei Xing (12:03)
 Da Tang.
 
 Tu Le (12:08)
 Will love these cars. Think of Joanna Stern with the SU7. There's going to be US consumers and KOLs falling all over themselves once they try the ES9 out. Falling all over themselves. I promise you.
 
 Lei Xing (12:22)
 Yeah, well, replace that title with any model and it'll work, big or small. There's too many, there's too many to count, to list.
 
 We're gonna give some awards so but...
 
 Tu Le (12:32)
 It is. And again,
 
 let's appreciate let's appreciate that the West is finally opening up to the number of brands, the number of competitors in the electric vehicle space. Joanna Stern tried one. Now, if she tried six or seven of the same type of vehicle in the same segment at chabuduo the same price point, she would freak.
 
 Because if two or three of them came to the market in North America, the United States, it could completely obliterate the legacy automakers out of a segment or two.
 
 Lei Xing (13:08)
 I think the other thing about this article is, yes, she test drove a Xiaomi Su7 Max. The thing about it is Xiaomi has only been in the EV since a little bit less than 2021, so five years ago, they announced the entry, right? How many mainstream, let's say Americans reading this,
 
 even know who Xiaomi is? I wonder. Probably a lot of people know, but the fact is not any of these more established.
 
 that is Xiaomi, I think in itself is the jarring thing.
 
 Tu Le (13:40)
 I think that if we based your question upon age groups, then 50 and below would know who Xiaomi is, like predominantly. I think that if you're a car nerd that doesn't have a bias, then you've probably heard of it if you're older than 50. But outside of that, unless you're on TikTok or Instagram,
 
 Lei Xing (13:52)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (14:06)
 frequently and you follow a lot of car threads, you probably have not heard of Xiaomi. Although I take that back because Farley, I take that back because Farley has made a big fuss about it over the last several months too.
 
 Lei Xing (14:12)
 Yeah, I mean, just just a point.
 
 Yeah. And the thing about is upon seeing this was really okay. Finally, finally, have more coming to the realization that I think many of you and I and those people on the ground have talked about many years ago. And we're like, duh, right?
 
 Tu Le (14:39)
 You know, it's, don't know, man. This is where I would like, and I'm going to plead with our thousands of weekly listeners and viewers. If you appreciate what Lei and I are doing, and I've never done this before. I don't think you have either. We should do it almost every week. If you appreciate what Lei and I are doing, the content we're providing, the information, the insights.
 
 Please help us promote this. We're not trying to create narratives. We're just trying to correct a lot of bad takes, educate folks, and let them know that two really, really experienced people in the US and in China have been talking about this for forever. There's people riding coattails. There's a handful of guys in China.
 
 that you and I talk to frequently that we want to stand up, Wheels Boy, China Driven, Car News China, CNEV Post, and Inside China Auto. All of them are our friends and they do really great work. If you want to know more about cars, brands, you got to follow and watch all those guys. that's...
 
 my spiel for the 30 seconds because I think it's really important that we take a lot of credit for this.
 
 Lei Xing (15:56)
 You know what? Piggyback on your comments. Go ask Grock. And ask Grock this. What is the best podcast on China EVs? Do it. And see what the answer is.
 
 Tu Le (16:06)
 Really?
 
 Lei Xing (16:07)
 Try it. So in some ways, we have to thank Elon.
 
 Tu Le (16:07)
 wow!
 
 And we don't even post that much on X. We don't even post that much on X.
 
 goodness. ‚Åì so one of the things on my newsletter that I think we should bring up is that there was an article by Jack Ewing in the New York Times about the Canada-China trade deal. And it just stuck out to me. He said that last quarter or Q3, I want to say.
 
 Lei Xing (16:19)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (16:35)
 For General Motors, 8 % of the revenue.
 
 came from outside of Canada, Mexico, and the United States. We talked about the US 2.5 being regional players. Does 8 % of, basically almost like a rounding error. If only 8 % of your revenues comes out side of North America, does that make you a regional player? I think it might.
 
 Lei Xing (17:00)
 yeah.
 
 percent.
 
 Tu Le (17:01)
 So 8%.
 
 So, hey, let's do it. We talked about the awards. So I wanna ask the crowd, I wanna ask the listeners and viewers, if you have a name or two, you can add to them, but why don't we call our award the EVs or the Mobilities? Which one? If you have one or two names, let's ask the audience.
 
 Lei Xing (17:08)
 you
 
 So I'm looking at the list,
 
 Tu Le (17:25)
 Like the Oscars, you know, what should we call it?
 
 Lei Xing (17:27)
 Oscars.
 
 Yeah. The CEM Oscars. The CEM award.
 
 Tu Le (17:29)
 But not the Oscars. Is there a Chinese
 
 name that is kind of catchy?
 
 Lei Xing (17:35)
 Yeah, we can think about it.
 
 Tu Le (17:36)
 We'll think about it, like
 
 the EVs, the EVs, no? You don't like that?
 
 Lei Xing (17:41)
 EVs.
 
 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's simple enough. Because China EVs are more, right?
 
 Tu Le (17:45)
 Okay, well that's it. The EVs.
 
 So I'm going to tell you what the category is and then you tell the audience what we decided.
 
 Lei Xing (17:54)
 ‚Åì Yeah,
 
 have good reasons behind those selections.
 
 Tu Le (18:00)
 Yes. So, so lay.
 
 Lei Xing (18:02)
 Some
 
 are pretty obvious. mean, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (18:04)
 I'm gonna
 
 go from bottom up because I think EV of the year should be the last one, not the first one.
 
 Lei Xing (18:11)
 Ha
 
 ha ha!
 
 Tu Le (18:12)
 Okay, so award number one, Zombie Company of the Year. Who did we pick for that,
 
 Lei Xing (18:20)
 a company called WM Motor. They're preparing for a reproduction in their old plant in Wenzhou.
 
 Tu Le (18:27)
 So far.
 
 Lei Xing (18:29)
 because they're
 
 Tu Le (18:30)
 A plant that I've visited, a factory that I've visited.
 
 Lei Xing (18:31)
 We all have both visited. Yeah, we both
 
 visited. That was back in 2018, September of 2018. And they have new shareholders. They have new owners. They're trying to restart production of the, I think the EX5, that was the model, and also a sedan, right? I think they might name it a new name, but it's been in preparation the whole of last year. So.
 
 Tu Le (18:36)
 you
 
 EX5?
 
 Lei Xing (18:56)
 There's obviously a few more but the WI Motor is definitely the one that we thought it was done but it's resurrected. So yes, Zombie of the Year. Maybe it's not even a zombie.
 
 Tu Le (19:07)
 For those people who started following Chinese electric vehicles post-COVID, WM is an OG. It came out around the same time that XPeng and NIO did. Freeman Shen, ex-Volvo, ex-Geely executive started it. So he was really, really deep in automotive experience. And WM actually stands for Weltmeister or world champion.
 
 So ‚Åì we actually thought that
 
 Lei Xing (19:31)
 Yep. World champion being a zombie.
 
 Tu Le (19:37)
 I think and I don't want to speak for you, but I think you and I both thought at that time WM had a really good chance of doing well because of Freeman. I think both of us thought Freeman was was going to be a difference maker. So WM Motor Zombie Company of the Year.
 
 The Who Dis award goes to...
 
 Lei Xing (19:57)
 Stay blessed, stay Dreame-ing. So it is Dreame the home appliance, vacuum robot, everything, they do everything. They're even trying to launch their own phones, I heard.
 
 Tu Le (20:08)
 They had a ginormous booth in CES. Enormous.
 
 Lei Xing (20:10)
 Yep, that's CS, yep.
 
 And they...
 
 Tu Le (20:14)
 And they were
 
 in two different halls. They were in the West Hall and they're in the North Hall.
 
 Lei Xing (20:17)
 Yeah.
 
 They have not only one brand, they actually launched two brands for EVs, Nebula Next and then Cosmera. And the founder, Yu Hao, I'd say he's maybe more maniacal than even Lei Jun of his ambitions.
 
 of trying to build a new ecosystem. Let's say the next Xiaomi of China or the next Dyson.
 
 expanding their branches into EVs into other parts of the ecosystem. So be on the lookout. ‚Åì It's still early, but you know.
 
 Tu Le (20:53)
 Slay.
 
 I'm gonna give you a homework, Can you find out a little bit more about this founder? Like how he made his money, how he started Dreame because it's always kind of an interesting story. How much support is he getting from his hometown?
 
 Lei Xing (21:09)
 it.
 
 Yeah, he's very active on social media. He has his own accounts on putting out social media videos. He's a Tsinghua University graduate. was one of the... He was in this program, I forget the name, ‚Åì that helps kind of start up, starting up his own company. But his company is not that...
 
 It's not that new, It's a decade, a little bit more than a decade old company, maybe even less. I'm not sure, remember their product, their tech behind is the motors, the e-motors on their vacuum robots.
 
 I think 180,000 RPM, like one of the world's first to do it.
 
 I don't know.
 
 Tu Le (21:52)
 And
 
 Dreame is already international. was at the, ‚Åì I'd mentioned this in a previous podcast. was in, ‚Åì yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (21:57)
 I have a Dreame I have a product in my home. So
 
 yeah, so
 
 Tu Le (22:04)
 Well, you said Nick Twork has a couple of them too, right?
 
 Lei Xing (22:06)
 Yeah, he has
 
 a couple of Dreame vacuum robots, he told me.
 
 Yeah, that's that's ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (22:12)
 So if people are curious and they're in the Bay Area, the mall in San Jose across, I forget what it's called, but it's across the street from Santana Row, That mall has a Dreame store, retail store. So for those interested or curious about who Dreame is, they should go to that mall. And I actually forget what it's called. I used to go there quite a bit, like once or twice a week for lunch when I worked on there. The Tech That Matters Award.
 
 Lei Xing (22:25)
 and
 
 Tu Le (22:38)
 Like, who do we pick for that?
 
 Lei Xing (22:40)
 We
 
 chose Momenta because last year I felt they were everywhere. They were in everybody's news releases or events. Be a BYD, be a Toyota, be a Mercedes, be a BMW.
 
 They have a wide variety of these companies using their system. Part of the reason is that some of these companies, automakers, are indeed their early investors. Mercedes is an investor I think Toyota may have invested in them. ‚Åì GM, right? So GM and lot of the Buicks that are launching, have Momenta. They're also, right? Just yesterday, they're also working with, yep.
 
 Tu Le (23:06)
 GM.
 
 There will be a Cadillac using Momenta.
 
 Lei Xing (23:16)
 And then they're using, they're working, Mercedes working with Momenta outside of China to put these robotaxis in UAE, right, in Dubai, I believe. They're actually the official software partner along with Nvidia for the robotaxi ecosystem. And their growth had been phenomenal over the last
 
 few years on the ADAS supply. And they're also launching a robotaxi in Munich this year.
 
 So while they're supplying a lot of ADAS.
 
 Tu Le (23:45)
 I want to add, Lei that,
 
 I want to add that they're almost like the anti-Huawei because Huawei has this kind of connotation and I think Western automakers are hesitant to partner with Huawei, but they see maybe Momenta is not as controversial. So, I think, and obviously,
 
 The Western automakers think Momenta's tech stack is legit because pretty much...
 
 All of the Class A brands, GM, Volkswagen, not Volkswagen, but GM, Mercedes, Toyota, all using Momenta in China. So I think that's really important to point out.
 
 Lei Xing (24:28)
 Yeah, and also just to add how widespread that their customers are, not just, let's say, if a ZYT or Joyu or some other competitors, they may be only in a certain group of brands, but Momenta seems to be everywhere, right? As I mentioned, all kinds of brands you can think of mass volume brands, premium brands. And yeah, I think that's one of the reasons that their scope and depth.
 
 Tu Le (24:29)
 Here's a funny one. ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing (24:53)
 of their customers is one of reasons I would pick the Momenta.
 
 Tu Le (24:56)
 We'll try it when we're back in April.
 
 Okay, the company that needs a hug.
 
 Lei Xing (25:01)
 Bye!
 
 How do you say in the past it's POR, poor with the SCH. It's my, I'm getting a lot of my poster in my, I don't know if you can see in the back. It's a Porsche poster from Munich. So it is Porsche. right there, China CEO just confirmed that they're gonna.
 
 cut another 30 % of dealership footprint this year, down to 80, to match their sales expectations and to remain profitable. Yeah, Porsche has been one of the foreign legacy premium brands that faced the most drastic downturn the last three years. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (25:40)
 It's important. let's do simple math. They're going down to 80, you had just mentioned, correct? They sell about 40,000 units. So I mean, that's not a lot of volume per dealership.
 
 Lei Xing (25:45)
 Is it?
 
 And they also had quite a few of these dealerships that kind of just shut abruptly.
 
 Tu Le (25:52)
 to be quite frank.
 
 Lei Xing (25:59)
 and kind of running away and leaving the customers stranded almost. These are all kind of the negativity that doesn't help the brand.
 
 ‚Åì
 
 and really being realistic.
 
 Tu Le (26:09)
 And there was an article
 
 in Reuters, I want to say.
 
 Lei Xing (26:12)
 No, I'm just saying being realistic of ‚Åì where you are, I think is the first step, right? And you know, what you gotta do is what you gotta do.
 
 Tu Le (26:19)
 Well, but the important thing is that the board got realistic and forced, Blume out of the leadership role. That should have happened in my opinion, a while ago. you know, and, and the board is a bit crazy at Volkswagen group because
 
 Lei Xing (26:29)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (26:36)
 He has such an important task and, ‚Åì momentum is going the wrong way. Not hearing great things about the Rivian partnership with Volkswagen group in the United States. So Blume has a huge mess that he needs to clean up and he doesn't have a long runway in order to make things happen and turn around. Brandstader is taking pictures with Hila Xiaopang and Brian Gu to
 
 emphasize the importance of the XPeng Volkswagen partnership in China.
 
 Lei Xing (27:05)
 Yeah, 18 months, right? 18 months fast for the CEA architecture that they just announced for the Unix 07. One of the models launching this year, one of several.
 
 ‚Åì yeah.
 
 Tu Le (27:18)
 All right, Lei flop of the year. What do we got?
 
 Lei Xing (27:20)
 You know, this one is tough for me to say because it's actually a launch event that I went to in the summer. We picked LiAuto i8. It was funny because I was with the UBS analyst, Paul Gong, who was there at the launch. were kind of discussing, you know, what were your expectations of what should be
 
 the appropriate or the right monthly sales figures for this model. And he was talking about like 5,000 to 6,000 units per month should be what's expected. But I think for Li Auto, at least on the i-Series now, all they talk about is that i6, I don't think i8 has gotten any traction whatsoever.
 
 And now actually the
 
 we're actually looking forward to the new L9. So they're actually relaunching the EREV series, which still accounts for the bulk of Li Auto's sales. yeah, i8 I think was definitely one, if not the, well, we say this is the flop of the year. Tough for me to say, but you know, that's what it is.
 
 Tu Le (28:30)
 Well, there are a lot of flops. I think you and I agree with that, but Li Auto i8 seems to be the most high profile.
 
 Lei Xing (28:36)
 It's the most high profile. mean, it was a launch event. was one of their, it was probably their biggest launch event in the history of Li Auto in terms of how they ‚Åì held it. Yeah. Even, even bigger than the, the one, Li Auto one that was unveiled in October, 2018, the first model. So that's, I think that significance is
 
 Tu Le (28:48)
 Ever.
 
 Lei Xing (29:01)
 what makes it more tougher for me to say, but it is, right? Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (29:05)
 And we have to remember that it was launched during the controversy with the Mega. The Mega has always been fairly controversial for reasons we don't know. We kind of know, but we don't know.
 
 Lei Xing (29:12)
 I mean, yeah, the mega was, yeah,
 
 the mega would have been our flop of the year before since it's already launched. But i8 was definitely very disappointing.
 
 Tu Le (29:23)
 You
 
 Lei Xing (29:27)
 Man, you have to consider at the time the ONVO L90 launched. The ES8 was coming. So I think it was an inopportune timing as well. think that was, you know. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (29:30)
 So.
 
 Who's our Dark Horse of the Year?
 
 Lei Xing (29:45)
 Leap Motor. It seems like they came out of nowhere although they've been on the up the last few years but definitely Leapmotor I couldn't think of anyone else. Also because they're targeting a million units this year and last year almost doubled from the year before.
 
 Tu Le (30:00)
 It does seem like they have built their own momentum, but they're also gaining momentum through their partnership with Stellantis. You know, it's offering them a bit more flexibility and an opportunity to accelerate entry into foreign markets.
 
 Lei Xing (30:08)
 Which
 
 Yeah, including Americas. South America, North America? Who knows?
 
 Tu Le (30:20)
 And I'm going to say this here, with an idle factory, Stellantis factory in Canada, it makes way too much sense for LeapMotor not to fill that gap or idle factory with production.
 
 Lei Xing (30:35)
 And giving British prime ministers visits currently this week about possibly Chery utilizing their Jaguar Land Rover plant in the UK, JLR, Who knows? I think a lot of things are on the table. Let's say a Leapmotor producing in Stalantis, or is Stellantis producing Leapmotors in Poland?
 
 Tu Le (30:45)
 JLR.
 
 Lei Xing (30:57)
 But these were all being discussed. Can it be the other way around? Can a Buick be produced at a GM plant? Or let's say, can an IM? Or even a Baojun Wuling who knows? We just throw this out there. Nothing is impossible.
 
 Tu Le (31:11)
 Why not? Because we've just seen in the last 12 to 14 months, the narrative flipped completely 180 degrees.
 
 Lei Xing (31:20)
 Mostly
 
 for countries that are not named the US. How they're trying to kind of work with China a little bit. I think that's been the narrative, right?
 
 Tu Le (31:30)
 You know, let's pull up to 50, 100,000 foot level. You're absolutely right, SPX. Those that have signed trade deals, India and the EU, Canada and China, the UK and China. So the world is moving on.
 
 Lei Xing (31:31)
 So...
 
 EU. Yep.
 
 UK, Finland, all these.
 
 Merz is coming to China, next month.
 
 Tu Le (31:58)
 You you have, next month to Finish Yep. To your point, the, the Fin, prime minister is going next week and then Trump is going to come in April to China.
 
 Because we're not a trusted partner anymore. We as in the United States, this is what happens. know, commerce continues. It's going to continue with or without us. Will it be harder for some countries to not have the United States be a major trading partner? Yes, it will. But China is going to happily fill that void.
 
 Comeback kid. Who's our comeback kid?
 
 Lei Xing (32:28)
 Well, we already
 
 mentioned this model, which is the ES8, NIO ES8. We need to come back here because the first generation when it's launched, was, let's just say, right, it's going to deliver a 60,000 vehicle in this week, later this week, or this weekend I'm hearing, which is it was launched on September
 
 20th, right? So it's three, four months, four and a half months in change. And considering when it was launched, the first generation launching at the end of 2017 and delivering in 2018, it changed the industry. And now it has changed the industry again, especially for that segment of the market.
 
 large three row six-seater SUV and the being hampering on you know where we're taking off the EREVs right we we we proved that this large Bev can compete with the EREVs and it can sell obviously the pricing there is much different the way BAAS how it works bringing it down to the 200 uh high 200 000
 
 bang for the buck for this type of vehicle is crazy. Yeah, that's an influence I think this model has had on the industry over the course of its history. I think there are some of the reasons that we picked it.
 
 And it's the only EV in China that has done three generations in the last six, seven years, eight years.
 
 Tu Le (33:55)
 and
 
 You know, the, the, the, had mentioned the last class having a refresh launching this past week. And you think about, I mean, the ES8 is an SUV, but you think about the level of quality, the affordability, the value, the fit and finish, the premium nature of the vehicle. Holy cow. When it enters Europe, when these cars enter Europe, Mercedes
 
 and BMW and Audi.
 
 They're going to be laid bare. think they're also going to see that affordability and they've really, really tried to wring way too many profits and, and, and rely so heavily on their cash cows that the Chinese are going to come in, undercut them with better products at a lower price. And it's going to be a shock to the EU. I it's unfortunate. ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing (34:50)
 Yeah, it may not be the ES8.
 
 It could be another model from either NIO or from some other ones. But it's just a sign of things to come.
 
 Tu Le (34:59)
 Huawei, Aito, the Stelato all these cars, sedans. But next one, executive of the year, who do we pick?
 
 Lei Xing (35:05)
 Yeah.
 
 We
 
 picked, well, another war for Leapmotor, but it's Zhu Jiangming, the founder and the chairman of Leapmotor. ‚Åì He's not the most outspoken. He's more low key than some of the other ones, silently enough that they're becoming a new force, a bigger force because of the way
 
 They talk about being vertically integrated and coming from a history of Dahua, which is the second biggest, what do call it, the surveillance kind of the company in the world, right? So they come from a history where the technology, excuse me, is supportive of their ambitions in the EVs and Zhu Jiaming,
 
 Tu Le (35:41)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Lei Xing (35:50)
 His also great chest move was the Stellantis collaboration.
 
 which is making their overseas ambitions that much more easier through the Stellantis partnerships, the JV, the overseas JV. Yeah, and I think he's probably a bit low key underappreciated executive, even though the other ones might be more out there.
 
 doing social media. He does social media too, but he's a bit more low-key.
 
 Tu Le (36:17)
 His seems more managed than, you know, himself posting. I think what is important for me to mention is I hope that Filosa is speaking with him pretty regularly.
 
 Lei Xing (36:29)
 I think so.
 
 Tu Le (36:30)
 Luxury car of the year, Lei.
 
 Lei Xing (36:31)
 This one, we also mentioned about it, the Aito M9. So one number. Aito M9 has delivered over 270,000 units and for every vehicle in China, I hope I got this right. Every vehicle in China that's sold above half a million RMB. Every 10 vehicles sold in China that's above
 
 Let me be half a million. Guess how many are the M9?
 
 Tu Le (36:59)
 I don't know.
 
 Lei Xing (37:00)
 Seven.
 
 Every 10, it dominates. So one of the reasons we picked it also because it's a freaking tech, what do you call it, right? It's gadgety, it's very gadgety and luxury car. And a lot of people, the reason why Porsche has gone down, M9 is one of the biggest reasons. The Mercedes GLS, the...
 
 Tu Le (37:01)
 So it dominates.
 
 Lei Xing (37:22)
 BNW X7 All of those models it's because of them
 
 It's only been on the market what? 2-3 years? Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (37:25)
 This is what I mentioned earlier a few minutes ago.
 
 Lei Xing (37:30)
 Yeah. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (37:30)
 So ‚Åì anyways.
 
 Okay, let me see here. What about our MPV of the year?
 
 Lei Xing (37:36)
 MPV we threw a curveball. It's none of the new MPVs from these new forces. It's actually the OG of the MPV. We picked the Buick GL8 I think part of the reason is because they're still the number one selling MPV model of all power trains. Okay, so that's a caveat. They're not the number one selling new energy MPV.
 
 Tu Le (37:43)
 3-100
 
 Lei Xing (38:01)
 But I think the way they've kind of fall back and launch some of the plugin hybrid versions, they're going to launch the new Electra MPV, which will be a part of that ‚Åì model nameplate. Such a long time that they can still be the number one selling MPV, think it's worth an award. I mean, we can easily pick.
 
 Tu Le (38:21)
 love
 
 that GM did not give up on it.
 
 Lei Xing (38:22)
 Any other
 
 Tu Le (38:24)
 and that they have a business version and a family version of the GL8. That's how heavily they leaned into their.
 
 They're kind of favorite, one of the most favorable MPVs in China.
 
 Lei Xing (38:39)
 For those that don't know, the GL8 was launched around the turn of the century, so 2000, 2001. So it's the OG of the MPV in the Chinese market. And I think in some ways still is. Like I mentioned, I think the way they kind of fall back, yeah, that's the standard. yeah, so shout to GM.
 
 Tu Le (38:56)
 It was the standard.
 
 Lei Xing (39:01)
 I'm doing it. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (39:01)
 I'm going to show my age, and I've said this before.
 
 For those GM alums, this was the U-van that in the United States was built in Doraville, Georgia. And there was an Oldsmobile version, there was a Buick version, and there was a Pontiac version. So maybe four brands.
 
 Lei Xing (39:14)
 Is it? Yeah, is it Chevrolet version?
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (39:24)
 Was there a Pontiac? No, was a Chevy, an Oldsmobile, and a Buick, I want to say. Is that right? So.
 
 Lei Xing (39:24)
 I think it's.
 
 Wasn't it called the Chevy Venture? The minivan Chevy Venture. I don't remember the Osmo names, but yeah.
 
 Tu Le (39:35)
 Maybe I forget, I have to Google that,
 
 But you remember, right? Remember the Pontiac Transport? Remember that thing? That was like, that's like the mega. Yeah, we both just rigged. So, ‚Åì SUV of the year, This is a no-brainer.
 
 Lei Xing (39:45)
 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the original mega, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I was saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
 this one
 
 was, yeah, this was, I mean, there are so many SUVs in China worthy of this award, right? But the Xiaomi YU7 just, we had to pick it. I mean, it's one of the reasons because it's exactly what's happening with what Model Y and the three kind of happened because now
 
 We do know, right, there's recent headlines of Xiaomi SU7 beating the Model 3 in the Chinese market. That was a huge headline. So it's only a matter of time that the YU7
 
 beats the Model Y. It's only a matter of time. Model Y is still the top selling SUV, electric SUV in China. So kudos to Tesla,
 
 Yeah, YU7, I mean, and the Wall Street Journal article, right? It was one of the proof that it was a SU7, but still.
 
 Tu Le (40:49)
 That's how far behind Western media still is. Instead of driving the YU7, they drove the Su7. Okay, drum roll please.
 
 Lei Xing (40:58)
 Some hobby can only get the hands on the...
 
 You
 
 Ugh.
 
 Tu Le (41:01)
 For
 
 the last award, the most prestigious award, what was our EV of the year? Lei.
 
 Lei Xing (41:07)
 Ha ha ha!
 
 This is an EV by the conspicuous name of Xingyuan which means star wish. It's the Geely Xingyuan, the reason why, because this thing was launched at the end of 2024. And in 2025, it became the top selling model in China.
 
 Tu Le (41:22)
 You
 
 Lei Xing (41:35)
 And it's an EV, it's a BEV and it's a $10,000 EV and it beat the BYD Dolphin, which a few years ago when we were talking, right on the show that Dolphin was the EV in China and they beat the Dolphin.
 
 Tu Le (41:55)
 Beat the Hongguang mini EV 2.
 
 Lei Xing (41:56)
 It's a Hongguang mini EV.
 
 Yeah, just one year.
 
 So I don't know, I mean, what other reason that I can think of for one model that achieved this status.
 
 You know, mental competition. So something's worked.
 
 Tu Le (42:09)
 But we should look at this as an evolution. The Wuling Hongguang Mini EV was a sub- $4,000, $5,000 US vehicle. Very, very simple. Golf-cart-ish-like, but still street-legal. Very popular in lower-tier cities. Then we get to the Dolphin, much more packed with features, longer range, a bit more convenient.
 
 And the progression from the Dolphin is now to the Xingyuan. So price has gone up from the $4,000 $5,000 Hongguang Mini EV to about a $10,000. But the features that are packed into these vehicles that are sub $15,000, I wrote this week in the newsletter that with the Model 3 and the Model Y, the features that they offer in China at
 
 $35,000, $40,000. They're available in cars sub 25 in China, sub 20, the exact same features. And I would argue that some of the features from the cheaper vehicles that compete against the Y and the three are more robust and better suited for Chinese consumer. So.
 
 Lei Xing (43:21)
 There we have it. Yeah, it's our first try at these kind of awards. It's never easy. I mean, we could have picked anybody, there... It's getting harder and harder.
 
 Tu Le (43:34)
 One thing I do want
 
 to add, Lei, is...
 
 The award should be part of the comments in any of these posts or the video that we have. So if you don't agree, if you think there should be another award, you'd let us know which award we should add to this current list. If you don't agree with who we chose for each of these awards, you let us know which.
 
 which would be the better winner for any of these awards. We want to create more interaction. I think for the handful of people who post, I think it's great because we kind of fly blind a little bit, Lei. I think you and I are each other's kind of... ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing (44:12)
 I mean, there were definitely some...
 
 Well, I mean, as we explained just now, these awards, they're not arbitrarily, I hit my head and I say it's this one. We have our own reasoning and I think other people will have their own reasoning. I think that's why it's always debatable, any awards. That, right?
 
 Tu Le (44:33)
 I think what's important, though, is that we're not denying Bill Belichick in the Hall of Fame if he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
 
 Meaning all of these winners in our eyes are deserving of the awards that they were given.
 
 Let me quickly go to comments because we hit an hour. Good morning guys. So SPX Nomad. Good morning guys. Does CyberDuck make more sense on Mars than Earth? So you think about the stainless steel, that's what we're talking about. No corrosion, right? At least in theory. With the incoming wave of L4s,
 
 Lei Xing (44:52)
 we already done an hour. Wow, okay.
 
 Ha ha.
 
 Tu Le (45:14)
 How will it potentially impact the logistics delivery and taxi industry, eventually heading to less profitable overall market due to involution of everything?
 
 Lei Xing (45:23)
 I mean, there's I think what we're seeing is there's several fronts, right? There's the Waymos and there's the right these these standalone ones. There's automakers joining the fray. There Mercedes one Tesla is one XPeng is about to become one and then there's the other ones right there.
 
 the kind of collaborators, let's say a GAC ion supplying this dedicated AV to DD-AV, right? I think it's still a worrying period at this point that, right, Tesla is still trying to figure out.
 
 and you talked about in the last episode, social implications. Those are still, nobody knows.
 
 But at least we know that we're advancing toward a certain point, which will mean the disruption of the current, let's say a human driver, a taxi driver, a cab driver. What happens to them?
 
 it... Yeah, it's all known at this point.
 
 Tu Le (46:21)
 So we do work in this space, and the consultancy does. And let's look at this more broadly and holistically, because we're also, if we're talking specifically delivery, there's urban planning in cities that are likely going to restrict certain things, which makes it, but if you live in the suburbs, we got to think about drone delivery, because that's starting to happen with Amazon.
 
 and they're delivering prescription drugs to houses out in the burbs and stuff. And so certain cities will restrict private passenger vehicles, which create more opportunity for autonomous delivery vehicles. You know, the smaller ones that are about the size of, you know, those ones that we saw at Chaoyang Park that sold drinks and ice cream and stuff like that. Okay. So.
 
 There's going to be that opportunity, that category. And then there's going to be the type that we saw, the Meituan that goes 60, 70 kilometers an hour, okay, that are also going to be part of the delivery system. depending on what the cities want, depending on whether or not there's going to be a shock to the system because a bunch of people will be unemployed. Because when we think about delivery, we think about giga giga workers.
 
 guys on bikes in New York City riding around delivering food, delivering all kinds of crazy stuff. And so that's a larger implication than I think most people are willing to admit, especially now when you hear announcements by companies like Amazon that they're reducing staff by 30,000. mean, that's around, I mean, that's a, that was close to 10,000, 10 % of their employees on the white collar side.
 
 So that's not insignificant because of AI, because of simplification. They over hired during COVID and that's one of the reasons, but 30,000 people, that's a crazy, crazy number, but that's likely gonna happen across sectors. So, it's an interesting time, ‚Åì but.
 
 Lei Xing (48:14)
 it
 
 And at the same time, have Elon
 
 saying this new mission statement of delivering or abundance, right? Universal, he's talking about universal high income for everybody. Okay, so that solves the problem. I don't know.
 
 Tu Le (48:30)
 Well, Andrew
 
 Yang Andrew Yang eight years ago introduced UBI, universal basic income, and he got laughed at. most capitalists don't like welfare systems. But most capitalists don't want, let's say,
 
 Lei Xing (48:47)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (48:50)
 countries that are close to revolution because so many people are unemployed either. anyways, everyone, this was fun. Lei and I were actually, a lot of these award winners, we were pretty agreeable right off the bat. We only kind of debated about one or two of them. So, but again,
 
 Would love your feedback. Any awards that you want us to add and or any awardees that you think are worthy. In place of who we we selected love your feedback and then SBS. Thank you. He writes and I might have posted this already, but.
 
 Thanks for joining us, everyone. We will see you all next week. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
 
 Lei Xing (49:28)
 Thank you. That was fun. Bye bye.