Beijing Auto Show Preview: China’s SUV War Is Breaking the Industry | CEM #250

Episode #250 of China EVs & More dives into a turning point moment for the global auto industry as China’s EV market enters a new phase ahead of the Beijing Auto Show.

Tu Le and Lei Xing break down an explosion of flagship SUV launches across Chinese brands — from NIO, XPeng, Zeekr, and LeapMotor — all competing in the same $40K–$60K range with similar tech, features, and performance. The result? A hyper-competitive market where price has become the ultimate differentiator.  

But that’s just one side of the story.

The episode also explores:

• Why Chinese EVs are converging on identical feature sets (800V, ADAS, AI chassis)
• How foreign automakers (VW, Nissan, Audi) are attempting a comeback in China
• Why marketing costs and partnerships may determine survival for legacy OEMs
• And how China’s EV ecosystem is shifting from price wars → brand differentiation

This is not just about China anymore — it’s about who wins the global auto reset.

🔍 SEO KEYWORDS 

China EV market
Beijing Auto Show 2026
Chinese electric vehicles
NIO ES9
XPeng G series SUV
Zeekr 9X
Leapmotor D19
China EV price war
global EV competition
Volkswagen China strategy
Nissan China EV plans
EV SUV comparison
Chinese EV exports
EV technology trends
ADAS China
AI in cars China
legacy automakers vs China
electric vehicle future
premium EV market China
smart driving China

⏱️ YOUTUBE TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro + Beijing Auto Show setup
01:30 Explosion of new EV launches in China
03:00 Flagship SUV battle ($40K–$60K segment)
05:30 Why Chinese EVs are becoming “the same”
07:30 Feature parity: 800V, ADAS, AI chassis
09:00 The real differentiator: PRICE
11:00 Why quality is no longer the issue
12:30 Rapid refresh cycles (12–14 months)
14:00 Consumer choice overload in China
15:30 Foreign automakers strike back (VW, Nissan, Audi)
18:00 Why partnerships are the only path forward
20:00 Final thoughts: global EV reset underway

Transcript

Tu Le (00:00)
Welcome to the China EVs and More podcast In the next hour or so, my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news coming out of the global EV, AV, and mobility sectors. What Lei and I discuss today is based on our opinions and should not be taken as investment advice. For those that are new to the show, welcome.
 
 And to our loyal listeners and viewers, welcome back. Don't forget to smash those subscribe and like buttons and help us get the word out about this podcast to others. My name is Tu Le. I am the managing director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for it at sinoautoinsights.substack.com, which of course.
 
 I encourage you all to do. A preparing for the Beijing Auto Show Lei. Can you please introduce yourself?
 
 Lei Xing (00:55)
 Yes, good morning to a just returned from the Silicon Valley Bay Area Tu. this is your co-host, Lei Xing, former chief editor of China Auto Review. And this is episode 245, one week, exactly one week from the Beijing Auto Show. I think our schedules are firming up,
 
 Lots going on recently. mean, across the Pacific here, a lot of chatter on stopping the China EVs from coming over to America. And then in China, the products launches just every day. Every day there's multiple from now on. I was looking at the past week or so.
 
 Tu Le (01:30)
 Keep coming, but keep coming.
 
 Lei Xing (01:38)
 Since NIO ES9 launched on April 9th, there's been over a dozen and a half product launches. Just today, the ZEEKR 8X is finally launched at a lower price. The WEY V9X launched. And then yesterday, there were four product launches. The Leap Motor,
 
 Tu Le (01:45)
 You
 
 Lei Xing (02:00)
 D19, their big SUV. The ID UNYX 08 yeah. 200,000 to 300,000 to $40,000. There was a GAC AION with WeRide's ADAS.
 
 Tu Le (02:02)
 flagship.
 
 Lei Xing (02:16)
 interestingly enough. It's called the WRD. We had the Geely Xingyao 7. So every price range you can imagine for every pocket out there, right? And then at the same time, we heard about the economic data.
 
 So first quarter GDP went up by 5%, which I think surprised some people, but it was dominated by exports. And actually the domestic sales revenues from automotive was down double digits in March year on year. So that's kind of the backdrop heading into the Beijing Auto Show.
 
 Tu Le (02:54)
 And I think it was the D19 that has, because the D19 is EREV, correct?
 
 Lei Xing (03:02)
 Yeah, well, it's both EREV and BEV.
 
 Tu Le (03:05)
 yeah, okay, but the EREV has an 81 kilowatt hour battery, which,
 
 Lei Xing (03:11)
 It's a big
 
 battery, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (03:13)
 It's bigger than most BEVs in the United States. Let's just say that.
 
 Lei Xing (03:17)
 Same with
 
 the WEY V9X just launched today. I think it was like an 80 kilowatt hour battery for that.
 
 Tu Le (03:24)
 One
 
 thing that I'll also point out is that the the ID UNYX is the first vehicle that XPeng and Volkswagen have collaborated on. Yeah, it hits at just under $35,000. I think it looks pretty good.
 
 Lei Xing (03:35)
 It's based on the G9 platform.
 
 Here's the thing, the ID. UNYX 08 is more expensive than LeapMotor D19. Who do you pick?
 
 Tu Le (03:51)
 Yet
 
 that is the thing because in China everything has to be relative, unfortunately. so the other thing is the GX came out with its pricing just a little bit under the ES9 pricing at $58,000. So the GX for everyone.
 
 Lei Xing (04:05)
 Yeah, we forgot about that.
 
 Tu Le (04:15)
 is XPeng's large SUV, it's their flagship. Think of 9X for ZEEKR think of ES9 for NIO, think of D19 for LeapMotor, and I'm jumbling premium, non-premium, sub-premium, semi-premium, I'm jumbling them all together because they all come in between 40 and 60-ish thousand dollars. And so there's gonna be a lot of choice for...
 
 the Chinese consumer that is still doing okay, that's making some decent money. And it creates an odd man out situation for the X7, the G, I don't even know what the flagship Mercedes is, yeah, the GLS and the Audi.
 
 Lei Xing (04:53)
 GLS
 
 Tu Le (04:57)
 Q8 I guess yeah so. So first of all, you know because those are ICE vehicles generally in them. The second thing is that. You can buy D19 at half the price of X7 or GLS.
 
 Lei Xing (04:58)
 Q8 or Q8L or whatever.
 
 Yeah, I mean, it's almost like LeapMotor is often known in the industry as the half-Li Auto, because all of their vehicles seem to be priced half as much as Li Auto. And we're not even comparing with the foreign legacy premiums. We're comparing among the startups. You have this beef going on, right, or competition. So yeah, mean, actually, that's one of the...
 
 major storylines of the Beijing Auto Show is the launches of these bigger than big SUVs from virtually every single brand you can think of.
 
 Tu Le (05:46)
 And as someone Lei that lives in Michigan, home of the Tahoe Expedition Navigator Escalade, I'm.
 
 curious to see in real life how big the ES9 is. Does it look right? The proportions, do they look right? Because it's taken time for GM Ford and those companies to really make these huge SUVs kind of fit proportionally and look right.
 
 Lei Xing (06:12)
 I think the way I can think of it is that the Tahoe's and the Expeditions, they just look macho, dumb, big. Whereas the ES9s and the GXs, they have the styling and proportion that makes it looks appealing. when you look at it at the stance, right? I think that's one difference that I can think of.
 
 Tu Le (06:34)
 I think in pictures, I think that, you know, cause to me in the movies, the spy movies and the government movies, it's iconic to see the black Tahos. And so to me, it's like, and don't get me wrong, I really like how the Tahos look, but interior wise, they're still nineties to me. It's not really...
 
 kept up with the times, the design of the interiors, but I also don't, you know, I also think that the Mercedes, you know, coast to coast screen is a little bit dated as well, so.
 
 Lei Xing (07:06)
 The other thing about just watching this recent past week, 10 days or so, all of these product launches, I I pay quite close attention to them and you get kind of,
 
 Everything seems to be the same. Everybody's offering the same thing. 800 volt platforms, fast charging, spaciousness, fit and finish materials. It's very hard to stand out. you have all of these options. Who do you pick? is it just based on price? Is it on the charging? Is it on ADAS? the Xpeng GX is actually, they're using that big SUV as their first.
 
 fully in-house developed robotaxi.
 
 which seems to me is kind of big for a robotaxi but
 
 you kind of like, yeah, I mean, everybody almost has the same features, feature sets. AI chassis, everybody's calling their vehicles AI luxury flagship. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (07:50)
 Well...
 
 Also,
 
 I'd mentioned this years ago, if you kind of squint, they all kind of look alike. And you can kind of say that about the big SUVs now, because they're big and boxy. Okay, whereas those crossovers, the midsize SUVs and crossovers, they had that swooping look, and they all kind of looked alike. If you think about the Mercedes, the smaller,
 
 Lei Xing (08:15)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (08:20)
 crossovers, had the curved jelly bean shape. Now, the big SUVs kind of tend towards the Land Rover Defender, where it's really boxy, the G-Wagon from Mercedes. And so that hits home for me too, because it's not just the feature set that is very similar, but that's the problem. The only differentiator that I can think of is price.
 
 You know, let's take quality out of the equation because in a market like this, if you have a product that's going to have a reputation of poor quality, you're probably not going to be in the fight for very long. And we can debate and speculate about long term quality and reliability, but. with with refreshes every 12-14 months.
 
 Lei Xing (08:46)
 That's it.
 
 Tu Le (09:07)
 They're not trying to have you stay in your car for five or six years.
 
 Lei Xing (09:13)
 Yeah,
 
 the standard is within 12 months, right? That you have to have these refreshes. Right, the ONVO, they're launching the new L90, with LIDAR. And then there's the L80 that's still launching. Things like that, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (09:27)
 And, and Li Bin did say that he's looking towards the ES9 and the L90 to drive sales. Yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (09:35)
 Also L80, L80. It's
 
 launching soon.
 
 Tu Le (09:39)
 people ask me, hey, what are you looking forward to? And I, I'm overwhelmed. cause I want to see individual vehicles. I want to see booths for brands. And you and I always want to understand our friends who've lived there, who continue to work there, what their outlook is, you know, how they feel. And,
 
 Lei Xing (09:44)
 I am and same.
 
 Well, good.
 
 Tu Le (10:00)
 Sometimes they don't describe it to us in words, but you can just tell that people are optimistic or not as optimistic. And so that's gonna be really, really important to me as well. The things that aren't being told or said to me.
 
 Lei Xing (10:05)
 the, yeah.
 
 So yeah, these big SUVs, I think is one big storyline that you can look forward to. And then the other one is really recent days and weeks, this return of the foreign empire, you will, striking back. There's a few cases, in points. Nissan is doubling down. AUDI, the four letter AUDI
 
 Tu Le (10:28)
 BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB
 
 Lei Xing (10:37)
 just signed a deal with SAIC to set up this tech center. You saw that, right? And they're going to launch four new models developed in China, for China, specifically for the four-letter AUDI brand. So they're doubling down, even with the E5 Sportback not selling well. And they're revealing the E7X. We talked about last episode of the Hyundai IONIQ coming. Nissan, right?
 
 Tu Le (10:40)
 Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (11:01)
 are putting China as one of their three lead markets with plans to increase annual sales to back to one million units by fiscal 2030.
 
 So the Germans obviously, I think that's one big storyline I think we're watching this year is that they feel confident. Even with, we saw the numbers, Volkswagen Group down 15%. Their BEV sales in China is what, 7,500 units in the first quarter?
 
 So they've reached their low and now with these next generation of products, they want to go back up. Their tagline for the Group Night is Rise Up or for this next period of time is called Rise Up.
 
 Tu Le (11:41)
 I just don't know. I think marketing costs will be too high and the partnership route is going to continue to be the way to go for the foreign legacies to succeed, not only in China. And we can point to Jim Farley effectively stating that we're going to try to enter
 
 foreign markets outside of the United States for now with Chinese partners. We're in talks with Chinese partners. This on the heels of Doug Field leaving Ford. So we can talk about that in a second. You mentioned Nissan. Nissan was talked about a lot by Alex Kendall, I want to say, who is the CEO of Wayve, which is the British
 
 Lei Xing (12:12)
 Yeah, that's, yeah.
 
 Right,
 
 they have that partnership, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (12:27)
 version
 
 of Waymo. And we can talk about that in a little bit. We can talk about my conference experience. But Nissan is talking like they're going to be this ongoing concern that is like, you know, pay attention to us. in the back of my mind, I don't know if my Japanese friends are really thinking that Nissan is going to be a major player. So.
 
 Lei Xing (12:39)
 What?
 
 Well, Nissan has been famous recently for the wrong reason. They had this beef with Li Auto and Li Xiang called, well, indirectly called Nissan out because of the water army, right? Of comparing the NX8 versus the Li Auto i6 or the L6. And he posted quite a few WeChat moments where he just dunked on the, without saying directly it's Nissan, just dunked on.
 
 Tu Le (12:52)
 Yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (13:13)
 So,
 
 but I think part of that confidence comes with the recent relative success of the N series from Nissan and with Volkswagen knowing that they have, they believe they have the right pieces in place. With the Xpeng, with others, Momenta, that should give them a leg up. How that will play out, I think we'll know by the end of this year.
 
 But at least for this year's Beijing Auto Show, it's a chance to show that we have these product waves coming and we're coming back. I think it's going to be a statement making Beijing Auto Show for quite a few of these foreign automakers.
 
 Tu Le (13:50)
 You know, I just...
 
 With the sales numbers from last quarter coming out, I still don't know if Volkswagen has hit a bottom yet. Do you? In China?
 
 Lei Xing (13:58)
 Well, Q1 is always the bottom for everybody, for the industry.
 
 Tu Le (14:02)
 No, mean like,
 
 you know, cause what they are 4.2 million in China as late as 2019. And they're at two to six or something like that. That's what I mean. Like have they hit a sales bottom in China yet?
 
 Lei Xing (14:05)
 Well.
 
 If they do, it'll be this year. Obviously with the expectation that sales will rebound in a big way next year, because now you have next year more of these next generation in China for China products launching that they are betting on.
 
 And we do know earlier this year, last month, as a matter of fact, they do expect earnings from China to continue to be pressured this year because the products are just rolling out and they hope for a rebound next year.
 
 Tu Le (14:42)
 So Li Bin has also talked about Q2 being a very challenging quarter. he's already setting very low expectations for the industry, not just for NIO, I think, for the industry. And so even if there's a little bit of excitement from the auto show, I think we won't see any real, real
 
 Lei Xing (14:42)
 So yeah.
 
 Tu Le (15:03)
 green shoots or positivity until after the summer is over, September, October timeframe.
 
 Lei Xing (15:08)
 Yeah. Well, mean, auto show is just one of those times where it gives you a reprieve right? Just forget about what's going on in terms of sales, deliveries, but just to show that we're commitment and the products be high for a few days and then get back to real life after that. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (15:30)
 There are a number of...
 
 Lei Xing (15:32)
 the number of events
 
 preceding the auto show, right? I mean, I always say half the auto show is over in China before it even begins because of all these launches, brand nights. They want, they want traffic.
 
 Tu Le (15:34)
 Yeah.
 
 if we were both already in China,
 
 yeah, if we were already in China, we'd have been to three or four events already.
 
 Lei Xing (15:49)
 Yeah, multiple events on the same day every day going into next week. ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (15:49)
 So.
 
 So
 
 upcoming, Xpeng's having huge events, Xiaomi's having events, Geely's having events, and it's here CATL Yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (16:03)
 CATL, smart, Volkswagen,
 
 BMW, they all have these pre-nights or tech days.
 
 Tu Le (16:10)
 and then Mad Dash for Saturday and Sunday. then, you know, I'll let people know that we're hosting a party for those that are in Beijing. Lei, you're gonna be in attendance. It should be fun. It's gonna be in Phoenix town. I just figured it out. So I'll update the invitation. Remember when we met, you know, our families met, I think? Yeah, remember?
 
 Lei Xing (16:30)
 Phoenix Town. ‚Åì yeah,
 
 that's my hood.
 
 Tu Le (16:34)
 Yeah, so, you know, invite them, it'll be at Susu, which is a Vietnamese restaurant owned by Jonathan Ansefeld. ‚Åì good dear friend of mine. So for those that are interested, you can direct message me and or shoot me an email. it should be a good time. Our sponsor is Ohm, which, makes EV chargers in the UK.
 
 They're a big player in Europe expanding internationally quite a bit. So looking forward to that. That's going to be on the 26th. I tried to find a date where it's like events, events, events, right? So anyways, so I'm just going to ask you, since people have asked me, I'll ask you, what are the top three things that you're looking for, from the Beijing Auto Show?
 
 Lei Xing (17:05)
 Yeah, it's hard as is everyday.
 
 Well, I talked about some of the storylines of the big SUVs that the foreign automakers kind of empire is striking back.
 
 The battery beef. So we know BYD has announced the flash charging. Their second generation blade battery. Yeah. So CATL is going to announce a host of their next generation technology at their tech day, which will be a direct response to BYD. And then.
 
 Tu Le (17:31)
 Yep. And they've launched the new Hang and Tang.
 
 Yes.
 
 Lei Xing (17:46)
 post the Beijing Auto Show, BYD will have another event to update their ADAS, kind of God's Eye So, let's...
 
 Tu Le (17:54)
 which doesn't
 
 have a great reputation in China.
 
 Lei Xing (17:58)
 Not yet. So this competition of one upping another is well in play. You don't lead, ever lead for long. Whatever you have, others will have, if not sooner. And then...
 
 Tu Le (18:10)
 And
 
 if we go ahead.
 
 Lei Xing (18:12)
 And then the other things, look at these tech players, the LiDAR companies, Horizon Robotics, Momenta, they're announcing more partnerships. They're a critical part of this now, the second half of the competition, Horizon Robotics is going to launch a integrated chip for ADAS and Smart Cockpit.
 
 I think they're also launching their seventh generation SoC, 7P or something. Yeah, those are probably some of the top things to look out for.
 
 Tu Le (18:44)
 So two things about CATL BYD. CATL, let's rewind to last year. They had three major announcements, improvement on the sodium ion battery for all weather. They emphasized the cold weather. The second thing, because you and I attended the event. The second thing was the dual use or dual chemistry battery, right? And then the third thing was
 
 Lei Xing (19:08)
 Well, updates of their, yeah, they're updated the Shen Xing and Xiao Yao batteries. So we'll see, I think maybe the third generation of that Shen Xing battery, maybe this year.
 
 Tu Le (19:08)
 was a more efficient LFP battery, okay?
 
 Right. And so.
 
 Then the one thing about BYD, you and I should congratulate them because they hit 16 million production units this week. So BYD is not going anywhere. And Canada is hot and heavy.
 
 Lei Xing (19:30)
 You
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (19:39)
 A little bit discombobulated, I want to say. talked to some Canadian folks now fairly frequently, potential clients, blah, blah. And some of them are already doing business with the Chinese in Mexico because they're international companies. a lot of these Chinese OEMs, it's like they're the
 
 They're the prettiest girl and everyone wants to dance with them right now, at least on the Canadian side. All the while, Jim Farley gets on an interview talking about, and this is a little bit of a 180 from him because he was open before he was not open to the Chinese coming, but I really, really do think, and I was told that Ford,
 
 was in discussions with the Chinese government over the last few weeks. And so the readout in China was that those meetings went pretty well. Nothing to see, nothing to see. not like, go ahead.
 
 Lei Xing (20:39)
 Well, the ‚Åì
 
 No, Ford's
 
 chief government affairs officer, I think was in China recently, meeting MOFCOM Canada's minister of international trade, I tweeted his, he's tweeted visiting Xpeng, ‚Åì GAC Group, and BYD. And he's like, come on over, come on over. Right? Whereas Jim Farley is like, stop right there, stop right there. You're not coming in.
 
 The contrasting is just, I've never seen that before.
 
 Tu Le (21:08)
 Everyone's negotiating through the media. That's what's really happening. And they're talking to certain people through the media. You and I know, at least in the United States, who they're really talking to, who they're really trying to communicate to. Because they know that he reads at least the headline portions of articles and what's being tweeted and things like that. So...
 
 Let's move on to my quick quick trip. I attended Ride AI. It's the second year conference originally. Last year was based in LA. This year was at the SF Jazz Center in. Just. In Hayes Valley, which is a neighborhood in San Francisco downtown. And I hadn't been to San Francisco proper probably
 
 six, seven months. And so Lei the number of Waymo's off the charts, off, off, the charts.
 
 Lei Xing (22:00)
 Have
 
 you tried the airport Waymos? Or did you try? Okay. Because last time I was there, it wasn't available yet. Now I guess it is.
 
 Tu Le (22:02)
 I did. I did. So...
 
 Okay, yeah, so.
 
 So it it picks it's supposed to pick you up at the rental car center and the rental car center was having construction where the roads were and so I picked it up at the Grand Hyatt at SFO. And it's about 30-40 minute ride to downtown where I was staying. I was staying right on Van Ness just north of.
 
 of the tenderloin and man, it's like all the above. Just really, really, really good experience. Ride AI, thank you. They'd given us a coupon where we'd gotten like a $30 credit or something. then while I was in San Francisco, Waymo sent me an email saying the next three rides are 30 % off.
 
 Lei Xing (22:51)
 Ha
 
 guys.
 
 Tu Le (23:01)
 I'm telling you man, like if Waymo can...
 
 Lei Xing (23:02)
 Thank you.
 
 Tu Le (23:04)
 enter a few other cities in the United States as aggressively as they have in San Francisco.
 
 people are going to be really, really aware. Yep, and Detroit. So.
 
 Lei Xing (23:10)
 Well they recently entered Orlando, Miami.
 
 Tu Le (23:15)
 And then, so NURO had a car there. We couldn't ride in it. I did get to ride in a Wayve vehicle. So that was a really good experience. It had a safety driver. It was more aggressive than the Waymos for sure. Let's just say the original Wayve ride was a false start. And then the second Wayve ride was pretty...
 
 Lei Xing (23:22)
 Yeah,
 
 Hmm.
 
 Tu Le (23:40)
 Pretty good. It's definitely rougher around the edges than Waymo, obviously, because it's still testing. It's not for public consumption yet. I'm hoping, and I'd spoken to a few ‚Åì Wayve people, to be able to ride a Wayve in London, its home market, in about three weeks. yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (23:56)
 Hmm
 
 Well, that's their whole market.
 
 Tu Le (24:01)
 But remember, I'm gonna try to talk to the Baidu folks too, because in London they're going to, or they already have Waymo, Baidu, and Wayve So my goal is to try all three, yeah, while I'm in London. So...
 
 Lei Xing (24:13)
 Yeah, new bucket list.
 
 Tu Le (24:18)
 The Waymo, let's see about the Waymo, but I'll be in London. I'm torturing myself and I need to slow this down. On the week of May 10th, so for those of you that are listening and will be in London, let me know. The cool thing is my buddy who's the founder of Jing A, he lives in London, one of the founders, and his birthday.
 
 Lei Xing (24:38)
 you
 
 Tu Le (24:41)
 And so I'm going a couple days early and he's having a small little party and he invited me just because we're really good friends. And when I said yes, he texted me. He's like, whoa, dude, you're coming. was like, ‚Åì So it was very cool. And then I'll be going to the future of mobility, future of the car, FT event. So.
 
 Lei Xing (24:41)
 cool.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (25:04)
 and wave.
 
 Lei Xing (25:05)
 Did you try the
 
 Tesla RoboTaxi?
 
 Tu Le (25:07)
 No, no, I didn't, didn't. But I had tried it before, but I saw some Cybercabs driving around and then...
 
 Lei Xing (25:11)
 Yeah, I tried
 
 a couple of last time I was there. just like everything. Yeah, but it's cheaper than Waymo. yeah, but it's not a Robotaxi yet in the true sense of.
 
 Tu Le (25:16)
 Yeah, I tried it last time. know, safety driver, it had safety driver. Well, it would have been cheaper than. Yeah, so.
 
 And so who, so the keynote was the Wayve founder and he was really emphasizing his partnerships, the partnerships that they have. And one of them was with Nissan. Chris Urmson was also a fireside chat. So I think that was good. I commercial trucking, they're continuing to progress on a lot of that stuff.
 
 Lei Xing (25:44)
 Aurora?
 
 Tu Le (25:50)
 I was on stage with Leo Wang the CFO of Pony AI, yeah, Pony AI. And so he flew in from China and he was flying back same day or last night. I told him, cause they are, you know, I told him I'll see him in Beijing and he was like, yes.
 
 Lei Xing (25:54)
 ‚Åì
 
 POP-PONI-O
 
 same day or something or I can leave.
 
 Yeah, they have
 
 a, yeah, WeRide and Pony they are exhibiting.
 
 Tu Le (26:13)
 Yeah, and so that was good. then...
 
 I'm going to write this in my newsletter, but, it's just like...
 
 We go to China, we see the future. We go to San Francisco, we see the future. But you and I kind of live out in the burbs and there's a huge, huge divide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a huge divide between what's going on in Beijing, Shanghai, San Francisco, and kind of the rest of the world. And as a Michigander,
 
 Lei Xing (26:30)
 Well, I've my motto wide, so I have a little bit of the future.
 
 but yeah.
 
 Tu Le (26:46)
 Who?
 
 Lei Xing (26:47)
 Would you?
 
 Tu Le (26:47)
 tries to, let me finish as
 
 a Michigan who tries to avoid.
 
 And they're not are they're not debates. They're arguments about which direction the world is headed from a technology standpoint.
 
 I just want these people to, if you don't go to China, fine, go to San Francisco. Like autonomous vehicle is going to be a thing, is full stop. Whether it's Tesla, whether it's Waymo, somebody's gonna commercialize it because it is happening full steam ahead in cities outside of the state of Michigan. And it's important for...
 
 Lei Xing (27:06)
 Go to the Bay Area.
 
 Tu Le (27:20)
 business leaders to acknowledge this and incorporate this into their strategies for future. I don't know if that's happening. So.
 
 Lei Xing (27:29)
 Yeah, it's a reality
 
 check, right? And then speaking of reality check, my question to you was the Doug Fields departure, does that reflect a failure on Ford's part as you as a Michigander and a GM alum?
 
 Tu Le (27:42)
 So, and  a Ford alum.
 
 Lei Xing (27:44)
 yeah, also. My answer
 
 is definitely yes. Simply because he was there for five years. Maybe he set up the foundation, but Ford had nothing to show for it.
 
 And five years, in China, the EV time is like 50 years. That's, that's what I'm thinking.
 
 Tu Le (27:58)
 That's a, mean,
 
 Xiaomi, Xiaomi Auto had started and launched a vehicle in that timeframe.
 
 Lei Xing (28:02)
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah. So what? Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (28:06)
 So I understand your frustration. I talked to a few people and the consensus that I got was that Doug was a bit ineffective. I heard Alan Clark is, well maybe, but so I always equate things to sports. And I don't know if you followed sports way back when.
 
 Lei Xing (28:15)
 It goes back to the culture thing, maybe.
 
 Tu Le (28:27)
 when you're younger, but remember the Chicago Bulls had Michael Jordan and Doug Collins was the coach. But Doug Collins could never get them past the Detroit Pistons or whatever. And so it took Phil ‚Åì Jackson to come to get them to the promised land. And so maybe Doug Field created soft tissue for Alan Clark because Alan Clark is now de facto head of the EV.
 
 Lei Xing (28:40)
 Jackson, now.
 
 Tu Le (28:54)
 team in Long Beach and I've been told really good things about Alan Clark. He's a younger guy. He's a Tesla alum. I think he was part of the or led the Cybertruck team or was part of the Cybertruck team. And so I'm OK with turnover. What concerns me.
 
 And I don't talk about this openly, but what also concerns me, Lei, is that as somebody that lives in Michigan and is very close to the D2.5 when I say two and a half, that half is Stellantis because it's technically a European company, but 30, 40 % of their profits come from the U S. my concern is that I don't hear. Knockdown drag out arguments are happening in Dearborn in Auburn Hills or in Detroit.
 
 Those need to happen. People need to get pissed off. People need to get upset. People need to push, push, push.
 
 Lei Xing (29:53)
 I'm just saying that if you compare the two and a half Ford has definitely become almost, they're kind of leading in a bit like the, with the F-150 Lightning, with the Mach-E, they had this momentum for a while. Now they've become the laggards because if we talk about China, Stellantis at least is going all in with LeapMotor, whatever they want to do with LeapMotor. They have a, Yup. They're talking about Dongfeng to set up in Europe.
 
 Tu Le (30:13)
 they're also talking to others. They're also talking to Dongfeng.
 
 Lei Xing (30:18)
 Right. Those reported by Bloomberg, think GM, at least they have the Buick and the Wuling and the Baojun and still Cadillac in China. Ford has nothing. And right, I think if you think about from that perspective, they're the laggard at this point, although they have the UEV coming.
 
 But,
 
 Tu Le (30:35)
 But to your point, Lei, 2027 is a lifetime away.
 
 And I always check CarNewsChina and CNEVPost before I jump on this this podcast just to see what the highlights are. Chery built a pickup truck.
 
 Lei Xing (30:44)
 Yeah.
 
 Lifetime, yeah ‚Åì
 
 Tu Le (30:52)
 And so, and I placed emphasis the last two weeks on the no sacred cows, the GX a little bit smaller than the ES9. So the ES9 is now on watch. Which Chinese OEM is gonna make a bigger SUV? That's what I'm waiting for. Cause someone is gonna make a bigger SUV like a Suburban size.
 
 You know, because Tahoe's are like a foot and a half shorter than a Suburban. Suburbans are super long. But it's only a matter time before Chinese OEM builds a Suburban sized SUV.
 
 I think Jim Farley is pretty smart. So he's probably trying to negotiate multi-region joint ventures with some of these Chinese partners, but he's only saying non-U.S. markets. It wouldn't make sense for Ford to have a partnership with Chang'an in China and then a partnership with BYD in Europe and then a partnership with XPeng in the United States or North America. It would just be way too complicated.
 
 But, you know.
 
 Lei Xing (31:58)
 Jim Farley is an epitome of this. tweeted that can't live with them, can't live without them mentality, kind of FOMO mentality. You don't want the Chinese automakers to be here, but you have to depend on them elsewhere.
 
 Tu Le (32:12)
 the foreseeable future, I don't see an off-ramp in two or three years. The danger of being partners is that, and I think Volkswagen is gonna be a victim of this, is that there's just so much reliance on your partner and what they bring to the table that you never create that skill in-house for yourself.
 
 And but maybe that's the future that most legacy OEMs have in order to keep the doors open is that emerging technology is going to be dependent on others. My fear, and which has always been there, is that which of these OEMs become Foxconn and which of them continue to be strategic players that if not dictating
 
 the market in China still dictating at least in their home markets, whether that's Europe, North America, Japan or Korea. We know the Chinese players are going to be there. We know it. We know that they're going to be building outside of China. We know it. We know that they will be in North America and the US eventually. We know that.
 
 Lei Xing (33:15)
 I mean...
 
 Tu Le (33:21)
 I'm hoping it creates a lot of anxiety at these leadership meetings, but I'm not hearing too many big arguments happening.
 
 Lei Xing (33:30)
 So, yeah.
 
 So the other big story was the Spanish Prime Minister Pedro (Sanchez) was in China this week. He met Xiaomi. He met the Chairmen of SAIC Motor and Chang'an. So without directly revealing anything, mean, basically the meetings are there to say, please come over to invest and produce.
 
 in Spain. Chery is already doing that.
 
 Xiaomi is launching in Europe 2027. Not a lifetime away. It's right around the corner.
 
 Tu Le (33:59)
 I don't know if...
 
 Spain is going to make out long term, but look at them over the last few years. They are becoming one of the largest, newest automotive and battery hubs in Europe, if not the world. So whatever they're doing, they are able to attract foreign investment. I think that's important to kind of point out.
 
 That's kind of all I had, man. So we can go to some comments. So SPX Nomad, what's going on, man? Thank you for joining again. He says, happy Friday, guys. The Beijing Auto Show, extravaganza, just around the corner. What are the vehicles and related technologies you look forward to experience and road trip with? The road trip.
 
 Lei Xing (34:23)
 Yeah, I think that's
 
 Well, still, well, maybe it's, we haven't finalized what vehicle yet, but I'm working on that. It's definitely not, well, I can say for sure it's definitely not a foreign brand. We could try next time, but yeah, maybe next year when, yeah. But we talked about some of the, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (34:56)
 Yeah, although maybe next year, next year, next year we could get that. A foreign brand likely would use Chinese technology.
 
 Lei Xing (35:08)
 We talked about, I mean, we did kind of answer the question earlier about
 
 products, storylines, tech, again, everybody's talking about VLA these days. Everybody. This point to point FSD like, that would be a huge thing, I think, topic.
 
 Tu Le (35:22)
 And I should emphasize that Wayve does not use LiDAR either. So they're on the same path as a Tesla versus a Waymo that is a different style and different philosophy when it comes to autonomy. Let me see here.
 
 Lei Xing (35:39)
 Yet, He
 
 Hesai just announced a 4320 line LiDAR, 6D full color, that are going into production later this year.
 
 Tu Le (35:50)
 While many creators focus on walk-arounds and test drives, how can you guys differentiate your coverage for deeper insights and raise awareness of your efforts? You know, SPX, first of all, I think there are a number of our friends and our, what I think are our friends that do a really good job. know, I think Ethan does a good job. I think Will does a good job.
 
 Lei Xing (36:04)
 No,
 
 Will,
 
 Mark, Elliot.
 
 Tu Le (36:13)
 And you know, yeah,
 
 Mark.
 
 And then I think Jiri and Phate do great jobs with their websites and Honestly, I would take suggestions SPX We don't really spend enough on marketing to really get us up to where we need to be where I think we should be That's gonna be changing once I figure out the best
 
 Lei Xing (36:24)
 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
 
 But anyway.
 
 Tu Le (36:41)
 platforms to kind of help us create more awareness. Go ahead, Lank.
 
 Lei Xing (36:44)
 Well, here's the thing, right?
 
 We can't do everything. And we're not car review guys. We're industry watchers. So we kind of, you know, talk about these headlines and our opinions and thoughts. Sometimes we get to experience these vehicles and tech. We can talk about it, but we can't do everything. There's no time. And there's other people that are doing a good job.
 
 and they will focus on doing what they do best, right?
 
 Tu Le (37:06)
 I-I-
 
 I have no interest in doing car reviews unless somebody pays me a boatload of money. Not really my thing. I'm a car enthusiast and I'll give you my opinion, but I'll give you my opinion from a user. You know, not trying to compare spec for spec on everything. Again, there are people that do a really, really good job that we consider friends that do that and we'll recommend them all day long. ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing (37:20)
 Yeah.
 
 And
 
 yeah, I mean, they have a team, right? It's not just a one person show. They have a team behind it to do the work.
 
 Tu Le (37:39)
 And, and, you know, I have a small team on the consultancy side, but their expertise is not content and stuff like that. it's, it's a little bit of a labor of love for me because I've always thought about dialing up investment into the content stuff, but maybe, maybe it creates this no man's land for me a little bit, but, ‚Åì we will be doing more to market China EVs & More a little more aggressively towards the.
 
 middle of this year. There are rumors that CATL will announce commercial grade ASSB at the Tech Day on 21st. If true, how will it shift the tune of the auto show and add wrinkles to your visit there?
 
 Lei Xing (38:18)
 Well, mean, during the auto show, the headlines get submerged by another headline. That's usually how it works. And that's why these people, these companies, they're fighting to put events ahead of the auto show so that it stays a bit longer. I mean, based on our experience, nothing stands out long after the auto show is over. There's...
 
 Tu Le (38:28)
 Yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (38:41)
 ‚Åì That day maybe for a few hours people are like wow look at CATL. announced this, BYD announced that and then somebody else puts another headline, so I don't Yeah
 
 Tu Le (38:51)
 I think the best thing is to tune in, which I know most of you will, in a couple of weeks where Lei and I will do our postmortems to figure out what stuck with us and what we thought were kind of the meaningful announcements, unveils, partnerships, but also some of the things that media won't talk to you about.
 
 you know, the things we hear, what we truly believe versus what's being said. So I think, you know, in two or three weeks, we'll have this postmortem. And I think we'll have a much better idea of how big of an announcement that solid state stuff is. So, Grit NIT TW. Greetings from Taiwan. Thanks for joining us.
 
 Lei Xing (39:31)
 Hello?
 
 Tu Le (39:31)
 or this is what I understood that Ford is...
 
 Consolidating skunkworks. And as you mentioned, that is why Field is leaving. Ford is kind of giving back to what it already knows. Although in Taiwan, I am from Greece, Europe, where Ford used to have quite some presence, but seems that is focusing on American market as even in Asia, its presence is quite small. Anyways, I wanted to visit Beijing Auto Show, but from the website and the WeChat app, the platform for the tickets.
 
 Lei Xing (39:49)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (40:01)
 for the trade days is not active. So I'm looking forward to listen to your comments.
 
 Lei Xing (40:06)
 ‚Åì thanks. Yeah, Ford Lioho used to be a major operation, right? I think it might still is in Taiwan. remember. ‚Åì Yeah, they still they worked with the China operations closely, but I'm not sure how that is now. But Ford does export a lot of their JMC pickups from China to.
 
 Tu Le (40:14)
 They still build in Taiwan.
 
 Lei Xing (40:28)
 other developing countries.
 
 Tu Le (40:30)
 The other thing too that that Ford when a company when an OEM talks about a reorg that happens every 12 18 24 months. I mean you can set your watch to it. It happened so often across OEMs. I kind of joked around about it in a tweet earlier this week. And. You know.
 
 I don't know what to make of it, but what I'd heard. that was that Doug wasn't as effective as he needed to be, I guess.
 
 Lei Xing (41:05)
 Yeah, it's unfortunate that they had to make this organizational structural change because they now have this called product creation and industrialization unit, which absorbed the kind of the Skunks team, right? Hence no more need for Doug Field. then, but as a CEO, Jim Farley, right? He's probably at the top of his mind is making money and you have to do what you have to do to do that.
 
 if it means killing some of the what was in place to help you get there. That's kind of what has happened.
 
 Tu Le (41:37)
 And I in the original rumor that I had heard when Doug Field came out to Ford was that he was given a three year mandate. And I can't believe he's already been at Ford for five years. It feels like yesterday that that that he that the announcement was made that he joined so.
 
 Lei Xing (41:49)
 Yeah. But yeah,
 
 same time as how long we've done this, basically.
 
 Tu Le (41:58)
 Yeah,
 
 and Doug hasn't really been at many companies like super, super duper long tenures. Five years is not an insignificant amount of time. So maybe he feels like he's made his impact too. But there needs to be more changes in leadership in my opinion at these OEMs.
 
 Lei Xing (42:13)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (42:21)
 Anyways, I don't have anything else. The next time you should see us, hopefully it's going to be a pre-recorded ‚Åì China EVs & More in China. I don't think we're going to do it live. ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing (42:25)
 We'll... Yeah, we'll figure out. Definitely not next Friday because
 
 next Friday is the Beijing auto show.
 
 Tu Le (42:35)
 Yeah. So
 
 we'll skip next week for sure, but hopefully by the following Friday, we'll have a recorded China EVs & More on the ground in Beijing, maybe right in front of the Beijing Auto Show like we did in Munich. ‚Åì yeah, so.
 
 Lei Xing (42:51)
 Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (42:56)
 Look for us then and then obviously if you're in Beijing, get a hold of us. We'd love to see you and talk to you and follow us on our socials. think that you'll get some pretty good updates on that. But from the standpoint of Saturday and Sunday or Friday and Saturday, it's going to be a freaking mess and madness, complete madness.
 
 Lei Xing (43:16)
 Because the venue is even
 
 bigger. We have this new capital exhibition center that's almost like twice larger.
 
 Tu Le (43:23)
 It's right near P.E.K. It's
 
 real close to P.E.K. And so... ‚Åì
 
 Lei Xing (43:26)
 So I'm
 
 not sure if you spend a week there, you get to see everything. It's just massive. Yeah. Well, the other thing we didn't talk about, the theme is still the emergence of these new brands. Huawei affiliated new brands. AISTALAND, Huajing, Yijing, Freelander. Right?
 
 Tu Le (43:33)
 Everyone? Good.
 
 Yeah, that's the other part. the,
 
 cause I, I haven't even
 
 Lei Xing (43:49)
 And I heard...
 
 Tu Le (43:49)
 looked
 
 at what new brands are out there yet.
 
 Lei Xing (43:52)
 I heard some of the companies are not exhibiting in Beijing because the reason they did not get a good spot.
 
 So that's how it is.
 
 Tu Le (44:00)
 Sharp elbows, man, sharp elbows. Everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. We will talk with you in Beijing in a couple of weeks.
 
 Lei Xing (44:08)
 Yes sir. Bye bye.