The Winners & Losers of the Global EV Race Are Finally Emerging | China EVs & More #252

We're only halfway through 2026, but the global automotive industry is already revealing its biggest winners—and its biggest losers.

In Episode 252, Tu Le and Lei Xing break down why Polestar is exiting the U.S. market, Volkswagen is preparing one of the largest restructurings in automotive history, and BYD believes it can become the world's largest automaker before the end of the decade.

The discussion also explores why China's domestic market is slowing even as exports continue to surge, what NIO's recent momentum means for the premium EV segment, whether Li Auto is losing its edge, and how GM, Mercedes-Benz and other legacy automakers are responding to a rapidly changing competitive landscape.

They also hit:

• Why Chery's global manufacturing strategy keeps expanding
• BYD's bold 2030 ambitions—and whether they're realistic
• Volkswagen's restructuring and what it means for the future of legacy auto
• The growing rivalry between NIO and Li Auto
• GM Energy and the next phase of EV infrastructure
• Why China's EV leaders are entering a completely different phase of competition

If you want to understand where the automotive industry is headed—not just next year, but over the next decade—this episode connects the dots between product launches, geopolitics, manufacturing, software and global strategy.

🔑 SEO Keywords

China EVs, China EVs & More, BYD, Volkswagen, Polestar, Toyota, NIO ES8, NIO ES9, Li Auto, Chery, EV exports, China auto market, electric vehicles, global EV race, Volkswagen layoffs, GM Energy, intelligent driving, Chinese automakers, Tu Le, Lei Xing, Sino Auto Insights

⏱️ YouTube Chapter Timestamps

00:00 Welcome & Episode 252
01:20 Winners & Losers at Mid-Year
02:40 Why Polestar Is Leaving the U.S.
07:10 Slate Auto: Can Affordable EVs Work?
11:00 Volkswagen Cuts 100,000 Jobs
16:15 Is BYD's #1 Goal Realistic?
23:30 China's Slowing Domestic Market
27:10 NIO vs. Li Auto: Momentum Shifts
32:30 GM Energy & The Future of EV Infrastructure
36:40 Audience Q&A & Final Thoughts

Transcript

Tu Le (00:00)
 Hi everyone and welcome to China EVs and More. A special edition, special afternoon edition. I know there were some complaints online about us boxing out the Europeans, so my apologies for that. welcome to China EVs and More, where my co-host Lei Xing and I will go over the week's most important and interesting news coming out of the global EV, AV, and mobility sectors. don't forget to subscribe and like and
 
 Tune in again next week. My name is Tu Le. I am the managing director at Sino Auto Insights, a global management consultancy that helps organizations bring innovative and tech focused products and services to the transportation and mobility sectors. I write a free weekly newsletter that we pull many of our discussion topics from. You can sign up for it at sinoautoinsights.substack.com which of course I encourage you all to do. A Indy Lei, can you please introduce yourself?
 
 Lei Xing (00:50)
 Yes, sir. This is Lei Xing, your co-host, former Chief Editor of China Auto Review. And this is episode number 252. I'm in Indianapolis for my daughter's volleyball tournament, last of the year. And for those that may not know, I'm in the racing capital of the world,
 
 Little bit of history. I just actually learned this myself, even though I watch a lot of F1. Indianapolis Motor Speedway is one of the oldest racetracks in the world and one of the top sporting events in terms of holding the number of spectators. So I hear that 300,000 people. That's how much capacity they have for a sport sporting event.
 
 And we're in the middle of the World Cup. we're also in the middle of a race. A race of winners and losers, and this is the theme for this episode. As we are right at about the midpoint of 2026, we're seeing some clear signs of the winners and losers, both in China and globally.
 
 Maybe we talk about Polestar being one of the losers. We'll get to Volkswagen in a second. But Polestar this week announced they're done in the US of A. They're no longer selling their vehicles. And it's due to the same reason that Volvo can still be selling in the USA.
 
 So it's a very perplexing development where two of these brands under the Geely Holding Group, one can sell in the US and one has decided to get out.
 
 I think it's been in the headlines a lot the last two days. we probably begin there. take it away.
 
 Tu Le (02:40)
 So Lei, this is largely symbolic. Polestar sold around 5,500 cars last year in the United States. So that's like 0.003% or something like that. Some rounding error. and I was told that Volvo has a more compliant tech stack and a less compliant tech stack.
 
 And we don't know the background between why Volvo was is allowed and Polestar is not allowed, but my guess and I'm speculating here is that maybe Polestar didn't have the capital to try to qualify both tech stacks, that's number one. Number two, maybe this is you mianzi
 
 They don't want to say I'm leaving the US market because I can't sell in the US market. So they're saying we're being forced out of the US market as a saving face. Mianzi is face. And I feel like Polestar is saving face here.
 
 Lei Xing (03:28)
 Yeah.
 
 I yeah, I
 
 I 100% agree. I think Polestar left the US more for the fact that they weren't selling than this connected vehicle rule or from the ICTS or from the BIS, from the Commerce Department. so no, I don't I don't think that the top reason for them to to leave was this
 
 Chinese entity or whatever. just that they weren't selling. they said in the press release, 94% of the sales in the first quarter were outside the US. And how many vehicles do they sell a year totally globally? So 94% of not not that many leaves the US with nothing, basically.
 
 Tu Le (04:16)
 Not not many
 
 issue for Polestar is that they never separated themselves from Volvo from a branding standpoint. Number two, the two largest markets in the world they struggle in. China and the United States. So I almost feel that unless they can turn it around very quickly, this could be the first nail in a long series of coffins.
 
 For the Polestar brand.
 
 Lei Xing (04:52)
 Well the the perplexing thing, the debate also centers on the fact that they decided to locally produce the Polestar 3 at the South Carolina plant. And despite that, they still couldn't continue selling the vehicle. Even with that in place, So that's the strange thing about this.
 
 Tu Le (05:08)
 In in fac
 
 The other thing too that we haven't no one's really brought up is that there were likely a ton of Volvo dealers that would have been obviously negatively affected. So maybe there is some lobbying being done by NADA on Volvo's behalf. Whereas Polestar, they're going through retail stores. And there's not that many in the United States. And so there's likely
 
 some other wrangling going on because Volvo does sell in the hundreds of thousands of units in in the United States. So it's not a lot, but it's not insignificant. And it would affect Americans in the United States if Volvo was restricted from selling in in the US.
 
 Lei Xing (05:56)
 Simple business d decision. the brand has not resonated in the US. It has not resonated in China, even though almost 100% are almost produced in China. so just focus on the European market, simple business decision, I think, more than anything else. whereas Volvo has much longer history of producing and selling in the US.
 
 Tu Le (06:12)
 Yeah, and maybe it becomes a regional brand.
 
 Lei Xing (06:21)
 Yeah. that's what it is.
 
 Tu Le (06:25)
 The other thing too, Lei, is is is that I want to really, really emphasize that trying to guess
 
 What the Trump administration is going to do and or trying to pull out a train of thought or some sort of connection between one or another, that seems impossible to do.
 
 Lei Xing (06:46)
 as Volvo's presser said case by case. So Volvo came out on the positive side of the case by case, where Polestar came out on the negative side. Maybe that's how you look.
 
 Tu Le (06:58)
 Likely
 
 likely to their relief.
 
 Lei Xing (07:01)
 So yeah, exactly. why bother?
 
 Tu Le (07:04)
 So media wants to say media wants to point out the inconsistency, but I look at it almost like again, it's a mianzi thing. They don't have to say I'm exiting the US market, because I don't do very well there. But so the other big news this week, Lei is Slate launched.
 
 Lei Xing (07:13)
 Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Interesting case also. I think a lot of people dunked on it, but at the same time, the US just lacks an affordable kind of the $25,000 vehicle and Slate is offering it, but with some asterisks, right?
 
 Tu Le (07:40)
 So they had to switch to LFP chemistry, which they're sourcing from Gotion. And my two questions, how much did tht save them at the pack level? And how much range did they have to lose because of that?
 
 Lei Xing (07:54)
 Well I tweeted that they're the Wuling Hong Guang MINIEV of the US because first of all it's cheaper. And second, it looks like it wants to be highly customizable. And that's what the Hongguang MINIEV did in China because people customized that to to make it
 
 Tu Le (08:12)
 see a bunch of women driving these Slates with Labubu signs on them and stuff? What's going on, man? What do you think?
 
 Lei Xing (08:18)
 Well,
 
 Lei Xing (08:20)
 Who knows? That's how they marketed it,
 
 Tu Le (08:22)
 It's not gonna be $25 when you buy it. And the thing that I don't appreciate is that the only way
 
 Lei Xing (08:26)
 Fine friend. Fine friend.
 
 saying fine print, right? You got it right. It's sticker is $24,950 but starting, starting, starting price.
 
 Tu Le (08:30)
 Well the the the the
 
 The the thing that
 
 perplexes me, Lei, is that the only way we can get to $25,000 or sub-$30 is to decontent.
 
 Lei Xing (08:46)
 Well, it doesn't have smart cockpit, it doesn't have ADAS There's no self driving, so
 
 Tu Le (08:47)
 Cause
 
 no electric windows. And so I I and they're trying to make it cool. Like it's it's a cool thing to to not have these features in your vehicle. And I was watching a video from one of the the sales vice president, and he said that they're break even at around 80 or 100,000 units or something like that. So
 
 Lei Xing (09:01)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (09:15)
 Do you think they get to that number in a couple of years? Do they ever get to that number?
 
 Lei Xing (09:22)
 I don't know. I'm not a fan, well you have these different the issue is the US lacks these things, right? We have Rivian coming on the heels of Tesla with the R2. Now we have the Slate. But other than those, we're still waiting on the more affordable from Ford, right? The UEV.
 
 That's coming next year or the year after. when is there a time when the US consumers have these options?
 
 Before the Chinese come?
 
 Tu Le (09:50)
 I don't know if that happens. they need the Chinese to have these options.
 
 Lei Xing (09:51)
 Yeah,
 
 Tu Le (09:53)
 so so the other two things that I'll bring up and then we can talk about a little bit.
 
 Lucid, they're eliminating 18% of their workforce.
 
 Lei Xing (10:03)
 Lucer Volkswagen
 
 in the same camp.
 
 Tu Le (10:05)
 And I'm going to do this. I told you Volkswagen was gonna have to cut an arm off.
 
 Lei Xing (10:10)
 You to be clear,
 
 you did not pull out the panic button. Volkswagen pulled out the panic button.
 
 Tu Le (10:21)
 is talking about I've for years and years and years I've posted on on Twitter and X, you know, is it time to press the panic button? And I see this announcement of 100,000 jobs, factories closing, and I tweeted they pressed it.
 
 And then I also tweeted, was it too late or is it too late? And so touche because 100,000 that's a lot of people.
 
 Lei Xing (10:49)
 It's what, it's like 15% of the workforce or something? It's a lot. of their global workforce, the other part is closing down four plants in Germany, right? I think all of them are in in Germany.
 
 Tu Le (10:55)
 And
 
 Closing
 
 down factories in Europe is a very, very expensive thing to do.
 
 Lei Xing (11:09)
 Yeah. At the same time, the Chinese are looking to gobble up these assets, possibly.
 
 Expeng is looking. any of the other ones certainly are working, but when is
 
 Tu Le (11:21)
 I'm sure LeapMotor's looking. I'm sure
 
 My first pick from a country standpoint, labor rates are higher, unions are strong, labor laws are restrictive. And so this is why a lot of investment has been hoovered up by Spain, on the battery side and on the OEM side.
 
 Lei Xing (12:07)
 So to be clear, the 100,000 includes the 50,000 officially announced at the general meeting last week. the other news that came out was Stefan Hartung the CEO of Bosch, stepped down. These things are not unrelated. Because there's the German OEMs and there's the German
 
 suppliers, European supplier to a larger extent, that are facing the brunt of this current bloodbath, if you will. because part of it is Chinese competition, part of it is the tariffs, but there probably has to come a time when
 
 If it really gets serious enough if the supervisory board Honda, the CEO, I think he's saved because the board voted that he remains. When does Blume resign or get kicked out? W if it
 
 Tu Le (13:02)
 And and Honda didn't
 
 fall as far as Volkswagen has.
 
 Lei Xing (13:06)
 So if it gets to that point, then it's not even an issue of panic button, it's something else entirely, but given the backdrop that we talked last week of how China domestic sales under a lot of pressure is going down, given the background that William Li said 90% take rate by 2030, given
 
 the backdrop the Chinese are expanding rapidly globally.
 
 that's the picture we're looking at.
 
 Tu Le (13:34)
 so I wrote in my newsletter last week the same thing that you had just said, Lei, when does the board feel enough is enough and new leadership needs to come in place? Because this seems to be a slow moving train wreck that needs to have a catalyst to to turn things around. Now, last week Volkswagen Group said they're close to hitting a bottom, they feel their products are competitive and
 
 To me, the Porsche strategy of going up market with more expensive is completely wrong. is it okay to scrutinize a poor performing company and expect more from their management? I think it's okay. And when you say Li Bin says 90%, let's put numbers to that. So
 
 Seven million units of ICE vehicles have disappeared from the China market. if we get to 90%, that's another seven, eight, nine million units. So if GM, Volkswagen, who are the mass market leaders, Toyota to a lesser extent, are continuing their sales volume mostly on the ICE side, where does that leave them?
 
 By 2030. Now GM is already launching vehicles and they feel they've bottomed out. Cadillac has some green chutes. Do they get back to the sales volume that they were before? Probably not, but at least GM has bottomed out. Volkswagen still hasn't bottomed out.
 
 Lei Xing (15:03)
 No, and one of the things that happened earlier in the week is that Volkswagen brand officially entered the Kazakhstan market with completely managed by the Volkswagen brand vehicles in China for the first time ever. So look for that to happen more as
 
 How do they utilize the capacity? Same as what the Chinese are doing, right? this a third of vehicles are now exported of auto sales that are reported, that are exported from China. two-thirds are NEVs. We're close to that point. And more than two-thirds, 70% of the passenger vehicle sales are Chinese brands.
 
 All of these are just in the back of let's say Blume's head, Hartung's head, all of these
 
 Tu Le (15:51)
 And remember,
 
 when we talk about Kazakhstan Lei, we're talking a market that is fractionally. I mean, it's a rounding error when you sit it next to or standing next to the China market. So exporting to Kazakhstan might be in the tens of thousands.
 
 Lei Xing (16:09)
 Yeah, I I'm just saying that it's a start of something that we'll see more of.
 
 And Kazakhstan is one of those markets that Volkswagen may not have been in, but now they will think about utilize China to spread out to more markets.
 
 Tu Le (16:25)
 Well, I was just on a a call today and my guess would be they're gonna start shipping to Canada too, Chinese made Volkswagens. Or they're gonna try under that quota. Because we know that they've already closed several factories in China and taken out what 2 million units or something like that or some ridiculous number.
 
 Lei Xing (16:49)
 this goes back to our conversation on BYD wanting to be number one by 2030. So Volkswagen now they cut the capacity to nine million units, Global capacity from 12. So I was saying, does BYD, we're looking at the prospects of not you might disagree, but the prospects of not having to sell 10 million units to be number one, because we're seeing what Volkswagen is doing.
 
 Toyota is still over eleven million. so that's probably the biggest hurdle for for BYD, other than Volkswagen.
 
 Tu Le (17:21)
 I think that overtaking Volkswagen is a doable. I don't think overtaking Toyota by 2030 is doable.
 
 Lei Xing (17:30)
 But that's a goal. So
 
 Tu Le (17:33)
 people need to take it seriously. Because my guess is that once they finally get approval homologation in Canada, they're gonna make an announcement about investing in charging infrastructure in Canada as well, in order to differentiate itself from the other players.
 
 And Tesla already has a supercharging network and Geely is going to everyone else, unless you're gonna buy a PHEV or unless you're selling a PHEV, is going to be constrained by the quota and then charging infrastructure. BYD is gonna be like
 
 You can and we also have to remember that Tesla is not a very attractive brand in Canada right now, although their sales are still number one. I don't know how long that lasts over the next few years, especially once a factory is built in let's say the next three years, 36 months, the Chinese factory in Canada is likely going to be up and running.
 
 I just don't know how much longer Tesla can hold out when they don't update their two vehicles.
 
 Lei Xing (18:42)
 I think as a Volkswagen, if we were the CEOs, I mean, right, they're doing what they have to do. First first of all is to trim down, whether it's capacity, whether it's employee, to remain profitable. and then does changing the CEO
 
 does that mean anything at all if Blume is still at the CEO, if somebody else was at the CEO. The facing of the Chinese competition and what they have to do in China and facing the Chinese competition outside of China is the same, and they've already done their homework. They'are working with Xpeng, working with Horizon Robotics, trying to get back
 
 mojo like i every almost every other still relevant foreign automaker in China, what more can they do? maybe you're the expert. I don't know. Are they running out of options?
 
 Tu Le (19:34)
 running
 
 out of options, but I really question the board at this point in time. And I've always and I've mentioned this in past episodes. I've always scratched my head when people say, we need them because they're the only ones that can give us the turnaround. They're the ones that drove you in the ditch. Okay? Largely. And
 
 Remember, Lei, there are still managers at Volkswagen and Volkswagen Group way back from the Dieselgate days. Okay? So there's a history of management incompetence at Volkswagen. And incompetence is putting it politely. then you know, Leiters he's the new guy at Porsche, but he was handed a terrible hand.
 
 And it's tragic to see Porsche struggle so mightily. it's heartbreaking, quite frankly.
 
 Lei Xing (20:25)
 And then you also think about the German corporate governance, the Works Council and the IG Metal and are not gonna have they're not gonna let Volkswagen cut 100,000 jobs. Well 50,000 is already announced, agreed to, but you add this into the mix
 
 Tu Le (20:44)
 they just announce that last week? It's they're like extending out the pain. And to me, that's a communications thing where it was like, let's just put all the pain together and deal with it. But this is we haven't even talked about the US, Lei. They still have Scout Motors and a factory in South Carolina. And
 
 Lei Xing (20:48)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (21:04)
 They have Rivian that is launching an R2 that is likely going to cannibalize Scout Motors vehicles. And so it is the weirdest, weirdest, weirdest time and strategy for Volkswagen because Scout Motors they said they didn't delay launch, but they kind of delayed the launch,
 
 They moved a lot of employees to South Carolina and it sounds like that South Carolina factory might also be building Audis in the near future. And so that tells you that the subsidies going away in the United States really, really kind of flattened out their sales forecasts and they're looking to find other products to fill that capacity in the short term.
 
 Lei Xing (21:51)
 And if we go back to the Chinese market specifically, the Volkswagen Group is the most committed, aggressive in terms of investment, in terms of being Chinese. And if they can't get this right. I can't think of other foreign automakers being relevant.
 
 Tu Le (22:08)
 I I
 
 Lei Xing (22:09)
 looking at so in the next 18,24 months, because they have a huge lineup coming of NEVs,
 
 Tu Le (22:16)
 Well,
 
 I do believe that Toyota, Hyundai to a lesser extent, maybe GM picks up some of the pieces from Volkswagen's losses in China. Not to the point where they're major players like they were, but I think the winners of Volkswagen losing could be the legacy automakers.
 
 Lei Xing (22:23)
 Well her
 
 I was a bit surprised at the official Hyundai Motor Group X handle tweeting about China stuff of the upcoming IONIQ V. so I guess that's a a key product for them in China for China again, with Momenta inside. Who else? back to some of the other topics of winners and losers, we had both
 
 NIO and Li Auto in the news this past week. NIO delivering so three things happened. They delivered the 120,000th ES8, the 10,000th ES9, and the 100,000th L60. ONVO L60, in the same week.
 
 Tu Le (23:02)
 Ha ha ha.
 
 thousand. Yes, nine.
 
 Eight yes nine.
 
 Lei Xing (23:17)
 ES9, by the way, is the fastest in getting to half a million RMB priced or above vehicle in the Chinese market. And Li Auto, meanwhile, launched the L8 and they put up a sign that said the end game of EREVs is not BEVs. The end game of EREVs is 5C EREVs. It's a shot across the bow, right?
 
 to you know to NIO but clearly Li Auto is losing in the EREV game they're losing momentum, at least not as nearly as good as the first time around when they launched the L9, L8, L7, L6 and well NIO, I mean it's hard to fathom that
 
 Tu Le (23:43)
 Yep. To NIO. so
 
 Lei Xing (24:05)
 They can be this successful now.
 
 Tu Le (24:09)
 seem like Li Auto is refreshing as fast as everybody else.
 
 Lei Xing (24:14)
 I mean, yeah. And then it was the
 
 Tu Le (24:18)
 they added complexity by making BEVs and EREVs So
 
 Lei Xing (24:23)
 It's funny that the videos they put up now on the launch event is comparison of their own models, not comparison of others. So lesson learned. But still, both of these companies we know them very well. great products and we wish them success. Yeah, so but for Li Auto, how long can they
 
 Tu Le (24:30)
 Ha ha ha
 
 Haupan yo, haupunyo, haupan yo.
 
 Lei Xing (24:45)
 the EREV game, right? with this refresh of the L series, they're really committed to it. but they're not putting out numbers like the ES9, like the ES8 of let's say the new L9 or the new L8 selling 10,000 units a month.
 
 So that's a quite sharp contrast. And Li Bin, right, he's harping that EREVs are the past.
 
 Tu Le (25:11)
 Auto had a long time in the sun five years ago.
 
 Lei Xing (25:15)
 So it's NIO
 
 Tu Le (25:15)
 I also feel that this is where they're paying for the L6 through L9 looking so much alike. not being distinctive enough across products. and then I didn't have any problem with the L6. it wasn't like a beautiful car, but functional, functional.
 
 Lei Xing (25:33)
 Yeah,
 
 just felt like, you know, Li Xiang he's very hard on himself. You can you can feel it. Like and the stuff that the features, Some of the features that he's showing in press conferences only Li Xiang can think of. but any other Li Bin Hua Xiaophong they're they're the same.
 
 Tu Le (25:48)
 Li Bin is the hardest working
 
 man in Chinese automotive industry. Hardest working man in China automotive.
 
 Lei Xing (25:58)
 And he's out there to show it. As He Xiaopeng And Li Xiang is kind of like he's little bit more low key, but he wants things his way certainly. but it's the sharp contrast among these startups and then it's the sharp contrast between the startups and the Volkswagens.
 
 Tu Le (26:00)
 man.
 
 Lei Xing (26:17)
 while the markets under intense pressure.
 
 And China, the State Council Information Office they had a press conference specifically on expanding auto consumption this past week.
 
 Tu Le (26:29)
 other thing too that reminded me, Lei, was that the Chinese government is now looking at what GM announced during their Empower event, using the battery electric vehicles as a supplement to the grid. and trying to take advantage of bi directional vehicles as basically batteries, portable batteries for the Chinese grid. And I think that is important.
 
 it's one of those things where GM was a little bit out front couple weeks ago during their own Empower event talking about that. well but bi directional vehicles is not a new thing. Ford was doing it with the F-150 a while ago. So but GM they made that announcement at Empower before the Chinese government kind of made that announcement about how important
 
 Lei Xing (27:15)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (27:16)
 try to implement that by 2030
 
 Lei Xing (27:16)
 So
 
 this press conference from the State Council Information Office, there were not any new specific incentives or subsidies announced other than the NEVs to the countryside. But there were parts of it, I think it's important if you look at it in a longer perspective, the more streamlining of vehicle registration of interprovincial
 
 transfer of used cars. Used cars, by the way, in the first five months the number were just over eight million units. They were up compared to a fall in new vehicle sales. So I think we don't talk about this often, but I think the livelihood, the healthiness of the used car market is very important. And the ease of which the used vehicle transaction can be conducted.
 
 is actually very important to new vehicle sales. We know that in the US market. And it's also part of the reason for the fall in new vehicle sales because a lot of consumers they're actually turning toward used vehicles in China. So in China now it's a one to one, roughly. But in the US market I think it's like every yeah, so it's like every
 
 Tu Le (28:26)
 Used.
 
 Many to one.
 
 Lei Xing (28:39)
 four vehicles sold, maybe three are used vehicles or something like that. I don't know. but
 
 Tu Le (28:44)
 but that's also because new car prices have grown so significantly. And especially on the EV side, there's going to be a lot of lease ending this year and next year. So especially on the BEV side. So you're going to see used car sales of electric vehicles increase significantly over the next few years, especially of Teslas, I think.
 
 And then I was at a Cox Automotive event a couple of days ago or yesterday that talked about the new vehicle sales for the United States for 2026. And there is evidence that Toyota could outsell General Motors in the US market this year, which would be a big, big deal.
 
 Lei Xing (29:28)
 Yeah, I saw that.
 
 In like how many years? In like 50 years or something? Or like a long time,
 
 Tu Le (29:36)
 Yeah, some yeah, pretty pretty pretty long time.
 
 the F-150 sales were a little weak but they're not sure if it's because of the Iran war. but I guess the other thing that they said was gas prices hit $4.50 earlier this year. They're now around $4 which is cheaper than
 
 $4.50 obviously, but still higher than the $3 it was before the Iran war started. So inflation should go down this year, but not significantly, over the next six months, or the next few months. But I don't even know honestly, Lei, if the Iran war is actually over or not, because they're still fighting, I think.
 
 Lei Xing (30:22)
 it's forever in a stage of we're gonna sign this deal soon. And next week it's the same message. But at least gas prices have been going down. I think it fell under $4 for the first time, I don't I don't I don't care. I don't care.
 
 Tu Le (30:34)
 don't care about that anymore. You and I don't care about that.
 
 Lei Xing (30:37)
 so so the number No, I just want to mention these numbers I think that are very t tell telling, Telltale. the reported passenger vehicles, domestic passenger vehicles in in China in 2025 is 23.74 million. Okay, not looking at export.
 
 Tu Le (30:37)
 Although man. Anyways, anything else you want to talk about, man?
 
 Telling, yep.
 
 Lei Xing (31:01)
 So if we look at Li Bin's projection of 90%, you do the math by 2030 because that 23.74 million is not gonna grow.
 
 Not like the 2010s. So that's number one. And then retail sales of autos consistently accounts for 10% of all retail sales of goods in China. So that shows you how important the auto industry is. the auto industry's share of manufacturing investment is 6% in China, and the auto parts share of goods exported is 6%.
 
 and the trade-in program, was about RMB5 trillion until the date of the press conference, and 63% of that were auto trade-ins
 
 again you do the math, right? And 21 million vehicles were replaced in the last few years. That shows you how important now China is again a retention based market, a replacement purchase market.
 
 Tu Le (32:01)
 there is a scrap law in China that vehicles need to be scrapped in every fifteen when they when they hit fifteen years old.
 
 Lei Xing (32:09)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (32:09)
 aren't many old, old, old cars on on Chinese roads because they're not allowed to be on Chinese roads.
 
 So before we get to questions and comments, Lei, I was in Ann Arbor from Monday to Thursday this week. driving back and forth. And then I had meetings and so it from where I am to Ann Arbor, it's about 50 miles. But people that are living in Michigan will attest to this. It is the
 
 Lei Xing (32:16)
 Let's watch premature.
 
 for a minute. Yeah.
 
 that's why you say you haven't done anything, huh?
 
 Tu Le (32:37)
 Worst thing about living in Michigan right now is every single road you go on has construction. Every road. And I'm gonna be reincarnated as a road construction owner because I'm never gonna not make money because in Michigan roads are always being worked on, anyways. so I was doing a lot of driving this week.
 
 And on Monday, we're walking into Chrysler Center where University of Michigan just won a national champion and they play basketball. As I'm walking in with my two sons, I get an update, ESPN update, that says Dusty May finalizing deal to become the next Dallas Mavericks coach. And so I walk in, and you know the big middle
 
 kind of signed thing, digital thing. It says Dusty May basketball camp. And and so I dropped the boys off and I leave the next morning I walk in, that sign's gone. And I drove to Ann Arbor four times back and forth this week from Monday through Thursday. I had meetings, I had Zoom calls and so
 
 Lei Xing (33:26)
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (33:51)
 I was not able to look at actual work very much this week and my goodness. So I had to push certain meetings out and next week I will be in Las Vegas and San Diego. Hopefully I will get to try out a Motional vehicle in Las Vegas. So I'm trying to set that up. And then in San Diego, I was told
 
 Lei Xing (34:07)
 All right. Okay, yeah. More questions.
 
 Tu Le (34:14)
 That I needed to do a night tour of the aircraft carrier because it's cooler than during the daytime. So we'll try to do that and meet up with some friends in San Diego. So I'm looking forward to it. We're gonna go on vacation before the 4th to try to beat some of the crowds. But Unless you have anything else, let's move it to questions and comments, okay?
 
 Lei Xing (34:35)
 No, I think we've covered a lot of things.
 
 Tu Le (34:38)
 Felix, sir, thank you for staying up. I know that you're upset that I changed the time today.
 
 Lei Xing (34:45)
 almost what, 11 PM or or something?
 
 Tu Le (34:48)
 So thank you for staying up late for us. let me see here. Tom H. He's new, so maybe we picked up some new listeners and and viewers. maybe he actually watches, but this is the first time that he's commented. Tom H. Add destination charges and a couple of
 
 basic options and Slate is no longer a $25,000 truck compare to what $25,000 would get you in Shanghai. You're absolutely right, Tom. I completely agree. I think it's more like a $35, $40,000 truck after all the bells and whistles are added. and what I would argue is that I would look more at like an Atto 3 because it's less than
 
 Than $25,000 because if the Atto 3 was exported to the United States, let's say it adds 40%, 35% to the China price, and that's the landed cost in the United States. So you could probably get an Atto 3 for the price of a a Slate in the United States if Chinese vehicles were able to be exported here.
 
 Lei Xing (35:46)
 So yeah.
 
 Another good example is LeapMotor launched the D99 MPV at the RMB250,00-300,000. That's that's their ceiling for LeapMotor brand.
 
 Tu Le (36:07)
 There's
 
 there's like two or three MPVs that like BYD launched the Yeah, so
 
 Lei Xing (36:16)
 say that the the word on the street, the nickname for the D99 is the one third Alphard.
 
 Tu Le (36:22)
 goodness.
 
 Lei Xing (36:24)
 Xpeng has been teasing the Mona L03 which is not the Atto 3, maybe a little bit bigger, but that's a model that clearly has the European market.
 
 Tu Le (36:36)
 I think that's a global car. I think that's a global vehicle.
 
 Lei Xing (36:39)
 and it's not like the GX which I don't think is the right model for the European market,
 
 Tu Le (36:44)
 car that I got a glance of in an article, not in real life, obviously, was the AISTALAND Huawei shooting brake. Looks great. Yeah, GT7 looks great. It's like a $30,000 shooting brake. It looks a little bit like the ZEEKR 001, but more curvy.
 
 Lei Xing (36:53)
 the two T seven.
 
 –¢–æ —è
 
 Then at the same time, Huawei launched the MAEXTRO the S800 Grand earlier this week. And then the Luce officially announced the pricing for the Chinese market. It's like it's just under RMB4 million or something.
 
 Tu Le (37:09)
 S
 
 Two hundred grand, two hundred thousand US
 
 For less than six fifty, for less than six
 
 Yeah, so it's under $600,000 in China.
 
 Lei Xing (37:28)
 So
 
 one for every pocket,
 
 Tu Le (37:30)
 let me see here. I wonder if they got pushback for the $650 and that's why they priced it lower in China.
 
 Lei Xing (37:37)
 Does it make a difference? I mean the people that have the money doesn't care. Well just
 
 Tu Le (37:41)
 Yeah, but that $650 seems steep to me. let's see here. Urban Guitar Legend. The VW EV they just released in China is disrespectful to what they offer us here. Here as in Europe or here as in the United States. Urban Guitar Legend. The VW ID. ERA 9X is sick. I like it. I said that after the Beijing Auto show, I like it.
 
 Lei Xing (38:09)
 It was their most popular model at their booth, so and that translates into the sales numbers.
 
 Tu Le (38:14)
 The absolute only reason Tesla is number one in Canada or the United States, as far as EV, is they are the only game in town. Period. Elon already paid off our government to keep any and all real competition out.
 
 Lei Xing (38:33)
 I'm the
 
 Tu Le (38:35)
 Tom H, if you think of VW as a federation, then it's easier to see VW China as a different animal. With SVW, Shanghai Auto VW and FAW, you see an east-to-west tech transfer.
 
 Lei Xing (38:53)
 Yeah, I'd describe it, VW in China specifically with the VCTC is their own Wolfsburg. what VW China doing right now, I call it the Chinese smart E V startup of VW.
 
 And going back to the earlier comment that they're the most committed, they have the most investment, aggressive, if that can't succeed then
 
 Tu Le (39:06)
 See here.
 
 Lei Xing (39:14)
 There's no story left.
 
 Tu Le (39:18)
 it's an uphill battle for sure. Urban Guitar Legend writes, US is a joke. Nothing to see here. Will keep driving my 2003 Honda Element. that probably gets good gas mileage, Urban Guitar Legend. So Mike the Car Geek, how would you advise the EU to deal with China Auto? Hi guys, thanks for the show. Hey, thanks, thanks for joining, Mike.
 
 how would you advise the EU to deal with China EV Inc.?
 
 Lei Xing (39:45)
 Well, so there's the BEV tariffs and there's talking about the PHEV tariffs.
 
 Tu Le (39:51)
 they're gonna happen. The PHEV tariffs are gonna happen.
 
 Lei Xing (39:53)
 Right. But still, I mean what do you say? It unless you're like a US, Europe is kinda like halfway in between. you can come in, we'll have, some tariffs.
 
 Was that successful in in stopping the Chinese? No.
 
 Tu Le (40:05)
 Well but but but
 
 well you could also do a Canada, have some quotas, and then really, really articulate a data sovereignty policy that hopefully you could kind of agree to all across the European Union and the UK potentially.
 
 articulating that would be helpful and it would be providing a leadership role for the rest of the world, maybe a blueprint.
 
 Lei Xing (40:30)
 Well, this happens as the same time as this recent regulation that was passed on standardizing autonomous vehicle technologies. He Xiaopeng tweeted about it. It's a major development where you now can fast track capabilities of let's say FSD or VLA in all markets of the world. in China and other markets of the world.
 
 Next year, 2028, you could probably see the came same capabilities of VLA 2.0 in China as in Europe, if that goes smoothly.
 
 Tu Le (41:05)
 Well you saw Lyft was announcing that they're trying to create a standard for intelligent or autonomous vehicles as part of their fleet. And I think it had to do with using a LIDAR. I think that was kind of a big move by Lyft.
 
 Lei Xing (41:19)
 Right, ECARX May Mobility and then May Mobility just announced another one with CaoCao, which is gearing up launches of 100,000 robotaxis and robovans global.
 
 Tu Le (41:25)
 Yes, for Europe.
 
 be jealous because DiDi was in Europe before it kicked itself out of Europe. And DiDi acquired some European ride hailing companies. I don't know what happened to those services. Urban Guitar Legend. Mike the Cargeek, not sure where you're from. He's from Michigan.
 
 but I'm absolutely exhausted living in a western country with subpar transportation options with the highest prices imaginable. NIO is the shisnet. Nobody is touching them. My dream car is the NIO EC6.
 
 Lei, exactly. I'm assuming that you said something nice about NIO. So ES8 is killing the game. Tu Le, Facts on Li Auto, but the star that burns twice as bright burns half as long. That's a good one. And Li Auto burned so very bright in the beginning.
 
 Lei Xing (42:24)
 No,
 
 How do I put this? we I don't like or
 
 I don't know if it's the same for you Tu, we can dunk any of these companies, but at the end of the day, I'd like them to succeed, but that's the market, that's the competition. Somebody's gonna lose, somebody's gonna win. But we don't want any
 
 Tu Le (42:40)
 I d I I I look at it this way. I want everybody to win. I
 
 It's not gonna happen, but I want everybody to win. I don't have anything personal against these companies.
 
 Lei Xing (42:46)
 W we're
 
 We're not
 
 spokes people for any of these brands, right? We're just if you know.
 
 Tu Le (42:55)
 Or
 
 or if we were, we would let you know, unlike some other people.
 
 Don't NIO battery swap stations contribute to the grid? I think some of them do. I don't know if all of them.
 
 Mike the Car Geek, Urban Guitar Legend. USA banning Chinese EV leads to lazy companies. EU tariffs are forcing VW and others to compete, and they are struggling. I feel like the EU will raise tariffs or something. Urban Guitar Legend. As far as EVs, a used EV, you never know about the battery. If we had easily replaceable batteries like what NIO does, it would be a no brainer.
 
 Lei Xing (43:18)
 Most likely you will.
 
 Tu Le (43:30)
 To buy a used EV and swap in a newer battery. Jeffrey now Polestar is the target. Who is next? Mercedes Benz? Urban guitar legend. Yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (43:41)
 that Mercedes-Benz story seems to be paused for now. There's no updated development, but it's under BAIC Group and Geely are shareholders. Or Li Shufu are shareholders.
 
 Tu Le (43:53)
 Urban guitar legend. Mike the Car Geek, do you guys have the same VW ID. ERA 9X that being sold in China? Because I honestly feel like the China exports are more dumbed down versions of what they sell in China.
 
 Lei Xing (44:08)
 at if you look at the Kazakhstan market, the vehicles they exported are the Tiguan Pro, the Teramont Pro, and Passat Pro and one JETTA model. the three Volkswagen models I mentioned are PHEVs. So
 
 Tu Le (44:21)
 Cars they couldn't
 
 China EVs & More should open up an episode with video guests of everyday Western consumers. Of course, we'd be bitching half the time, but consumers literally. Yeah, we were talking about something not dissimilar. So stay tuned for that. Tom H, the US doesn't have 800V charging infrastructure, nor the product.
 
 Lei Xing (44:36)
 We were we were actually discussing about that. Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (44:52)
 Y'all are validating the idea that the Slate isn't that competitive against the global benchmark. Ferrari Luce, Italians on mushrooms. That's Jeffrey. Tom. Yeah, I agree. LOL. Jeffrey, nice t shirt Tu. from San Francisco. I was just there. I had to get this because I was at ZOOX waiting for my ride. And so I walked to the Nike store and
 
 Union Square and I saw it and I was like, you know what? I need this so I got it. But anyways, I need to fill my time, so I spent 40 bucks. But everyone, thanks again for the maybe this is a good time. I'm sorry, Felix, but this seems like a very good time. We got a lot of interaction, so maybe we'll have to try this again. Felix, I'll buy you a beer, man. I'll buy you a beer.
 
 Lei Xing (45:21)
 Incentivized by dukes.
 
 Mm-hmm.
 
 It's it's a it's a weird weird time. Certainly a
 
 we weird time. at least while Europe is is about to go to sleep, right?
 
 Tu Le (45:39)
 So but everyone.
 
 Yeah,
 
 and and and and Asia can't really watch this either. But everyone, we will talk with you all maybe next week, maybe the week after.
 
 Lei Xing (45:53)
 happy birthday to America soon, 250
 
 Tu Le (45:55)
 Happy 250 Happy 250
 
 just meant this timing is a social hour, but I'm loving the chat today. Thanks, dude. good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everyone. Have a good weekend and we will talk with you all very, very soon.