Ford & Geely Team Up | Is the Auto Industry Entering a New Era? | China EVs & More #255

The global automotive industry may have just crossed another major turning point.

In Episode #255 of China EVs & More, Tu Le and Lei Xing examine why Ford and Geely are partnering in Europe, what it means for the future of global manufacturing, and why more legacy automakers are turning to Chinese technology despite growing geopolitical tensions.

The discussion also explores Mercedes-Benz's challenges with the proposed Connected Vehicle Security Act in the United States, Volkswagen's expanding partnerships in China, Honda's renewed commitment to its Chinese joint venture, Tesla's latest earnings, and whether the global industry has reached a point where competing with Chinese automakers alone is no longer enough.

This episode covers:

• Ford & Geely's new European joint venture
• Why Spain is becoming Europe's next automotive hub
• Mercedes-Benz and the Connected Vehicle Security Act
• Volkswagen's growing reliance on Chinese technology
• Horizon Robotics and Volkswagen's AI partnership
• Tesla's latest earnings and shrinking margins
• China's increasingly competitive EV market
• BYD's global ambitions
• Why more legacy automakers are partnering with Chinese companies
• What this means for Europe, North America and the future of global manufacturing

If you want independent analysis on where the automotive industry is heading—not where it has been—subscribe to China EVs & More.

Hosted by Tu Le (Sino Auto Insights) and Lei Xing, bringing decades of experience covering China's automotive industry from the inside.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome to China EVs & More #255
00:50 The week's biggest stories: Ford, Mercedes & Volkswagen
02:10 Why Mercedes could be blocked from selling in the U.S.
06:30 How China and U.S. policy are squeezing German automakers
09:00 Mercedes' EV struggles continue in China
11:45 Ford & Geely team up in Europe
15:45 Why Spain is becoming Europe's next automotive hub
18:15 Is Ford's Geely partnership the future of the auto industry?
20:00 What's next for GM in China and Europe?
21:30 Why every legacy automaker is partnering with Chinese companies
23:45 Volkswagen doubles down on China
27:45 Has Volkswagen reached the bottom in China?
29:00 "If You Can't Beat Them, Join Them"
30:15 China's EV price war is becoming unsustainable
33:00 Tesla earnings: Sales up, margins down
35:50 Is Tesla's China advantage starting to fade?
37:30 Financial Times: Chinese premium brands target Europe
39:00 Can Chinese premium brands win outside China?
40:15 Live Q&A begins
41:00 XPeng X9 recall: Should buyers be worried?
44:15 Is XPeng really Tesla's biggest rival?
46:00 Can BYD overtake Toyota as the world's #1 automaker?
48:20 Why hybrids still dominate the U.S. market
50:10 Battery swapping vs. autonomous charging
52:10 Xiaomi's next big launch
53:15 Should we move the livestream to 12 PM Eastern?
55:20 Thanks for watching!

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Tu Le

Lei Xing

Sino Auto Insights

Transcript

Tu Le (00:00)
 Welcome to China EVs and more. I'm Tu Le, and each week Lei and I will give you our unfiltered take on what's happening across the global EV, mobility, and tech sectors, backed by the experience, relationships, and access that make this show truly unique. We pull some of our topics from my Sino Auto Insights newsletter. So head over to Sinoautoinsights.substack.com and sign up if you'd like even more analysis directly delivered to your inbox. A quick reminder.
 
 Nothing that we discuss on this show should be considered investment advice. Please do your own research and enjoy the show. Please like, subscribe, and share it with your network. It really, really helps us. Lei a Beijing. Back in Beijing, Lei. Can you please, please introduce yourself?
 
 Lei Xing (00:48)
 Good evening from Beijing. Yes.
 
 Tu Le (00:48)
 You like that new intro?
 
 Lei Xing (00:51)
 That that was awesome. live from Beijing, this is your co-host, Le Xing, former Chief Editor of China Auto Review. And this is episode number 255. We probably start out with Geely Ford. they're back at it together. This is something I think this whole week three events happened. that's one of them.
 
 The other one is Horizon Robotics giving White Box access of their AI foundation model to the CARIZON, the joint venture between CARIAD and Horizon Robotics, which is under Volkswagen Group China. And then earlier in the week, GAC Honda extended their joint venture by 10 years to 2038. Putting up another fight.
 
 I think these three events are kind of pointing to a direction where definitely if you can't beat them, you join them type of thing that's happening. While Alysha Webb, she kind of responded to a post on LinkedIn. She's like the US diters with the Mercedes Benz situation.
 
 so those I think are the headlines that stood out to me this past week. But Geely Ford, boom, right?
 
 Tu Le (02:09)
 Well let's let's talk
 
 about that, Mercedes, because I want people to understand that there is currently a connected vehicle security act that has gone through committee in the Senate and has been unanimously bipartisan approved. it's supposed to go through the House and then it goes through the full Senate and full House. And if it's approved there, then it goes to the president for signature. Now
 
 The reason Mercedes is concerned is because there is a stipulation in the current proposal bill that says anything any company over 15% owned by certain entities, countries effectively. And I think we're talking because it's expanded from the Biden administration restrictions. Now it's Russia, North Korea, China.
 
 And I want to say one other country, but those three for sure. And as we know, or maybe not, Mercedes is almost 20% owned by Geely. So in the past, and maybe you
 
 Lei Xing (03:12)
 Well
 
 Tu Le (03:14)
 can give a quick history lesson, Lei, Geely wanted to try to take over Mercedes probably close to 10 years ago. So maybe you can quickly talk about that a little bit and then we'll move
 
 Lei Xing (03:25)
 Yep.
 
 Tu Le (03:25)
 on.
 
 Lei Xing (03:26)
 So close to 20%. So one is Geely through an entity by Li Shufu. I think that's nine point it's below 10%. And then BAIC group nine point some percent. So it adds out to be I think like 18%, eighteen some percent. I don't remember the exact
 
 Tu Le (03:42)
 Yeah, just under twenty, but over fifteen.
 
 Lei Xing (03:45)
 but but right. But under 10% from each of Geely and BAIC Group, I think that's by design from Mercedes.
 
 point of view because under 10% is very much different than if it was above 10%. it has to do with like voting rights and stuff like that. But right, so the combined is over 15%. and now Mercedes trying to they have probably some options. The last option on the list is to ask, which they can't do themselves.
 
 is to ask BAIC Group and Geely to reduce those
 
 Tu Le (04:21)
 To divest.
 
 Lei Xing (04:23)
 right. So Mercedes don't have that authority to ask the shareholders. It's on the Geely's and and BAIC Group's part. So I think in the
 
 Tu Le (04:32)
 Well, we also know that the Merc lobbyists
 
 are lobbying hard in DC.
 
 Lei Xing (04:38)
 Yeah. And even Ted Cruz, right? I mean he was kind of like against it, wasn't he? I mean he's like if you do this, if you stop Mercedes, then Cadillac will have monopoly in the market. So there's still even debate within the US of how this versus the CFIUS and then ICV ban.
 
 what I was saying is that Mercedes still have the middle ground of trying to find a compromise, like asking for a case by case like Volvo. But
 
 Tu Le (05:10)
 Well,
 
 as the bill stands, they will not be allowed to sell in the United States. So between now
 
 Lei Xing (05:16)
 Right, right. But
 
 Tu Le (05:19)
 and the bill becoming law, I don't know what's going to get watered down, but the Biden administration policies were executive orders. Okay, so president to president could change those.
 
 This is going to be a law if it gets approved. And so my guess is certain parts of it get watered down. Now I do know that currently General Motors is for this bill, I believe. I could be wrong, but I think that's correct.
 
 Lei Xing (05:52)
 Sure. I I think they are. Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (05:56)
 And so it's very, very restrictive.
 
 So it is supposed to be closing all these loopholes that the Biden
 
 Lei Xing (06:05)
 Yeah, but I mean yeah.
 
 Tu Le (06:06)
 administration executive orders still have created. Now when we talk about this, it also points to the USMCA where you can't build it in Canada, you can't build it in Mexico, and then
 
 have it shipped to the United States. So there's a lot of detailed language. and surprisingly, well maybe not. at least at the committee level, there's bipartisan support for it. So
 
 Lei Xing (06:35)
 Well, peeling the onions a little bit. Remember the Mercedes-Benz and the local joint venture with BIC Group. There's two entities. There's the BBAC, which is 51% owned by the Chinese partner. And then there's also the BMBS, which is the sales joint venture. It's 51% owned by Mercedes. And the reason for BAIC Group having that 9.7 share.
 
 Was involved in that business kind of the setup in the Chinese market. And the Mercedes-Benz argument would be those percent shares are strategic investments. They don't influence any management decision making business-wise. So that's why they're dumbfounded by it, right? But the language that stands now is that sorry.
 
 over 15%. So
 
 Tu Le (07:31)
 And let's take a step back,
 
 Lei, because what's really important to understand here is that Trump had put some tariffs on EU imported vehicles. And because Mercedes, BMW, and Volkswagen Group were already in a complete bind because of the China market, they were gonna lean into the US market even more to offset some of the losses in China. And the tariff on German made vehicles.
 
 imported into the United States really, really, really puts them and paints them, all three, into a corner because Porsche's already expensive. Mercedes are already expensive. BMWs in the United States are already expensive. Adding 15% tariff to that, that's already going to create an advantage for Genesis, for Lincoln, for Cadillac. Generally speaking,
 
 Okay, now you could debate, and this is a separate discussion, whether their vehicles are better than Mercedes and BMW. that's consumer taste and consumer preference. But if they're much more expensive, then the sales will drop in a ratio that is kind of the 15% tariff. Now if they eat that, that obviously takes in and kills their margin.
 
 So Mercedes in particular is stuck between a rock and a hard place because of what's happening in China and the United States currently.
 
 Lei Xing (09:01)
 the window seems to be tightening up on the options that Mercedes has. And then you were mentioning about what's going on in China. Reportedly the CLA L production has stopped. And it looks like the numbers that I've seen, they've only sold a few hundred units in the first half of this year for the CLA L.
 
 the new electric
 
 Tu Le (09:28)
 Wow.
 
 Lei Xing (09:28)
 sedan with Momenta inside. and their official word is obviously is it's kind of a tech pioneer to get these localized tech features into the vehicle. And now they're focusing on the GLC, which recently launched. I don't know how much that can do better. so yeah
 
 Tu Le (09:50)
 So so
 
 let's let's
 
 Lei Xing (09:51)
 Tough times.
 
 Tu Le (09:52)
 let me drill down on that a little bit, Lei. You know, Mercedes, they might have a two hundred fifty, three hundred thousand unit, four hundred thousand unit capacity factory. I don't know. Do you know how how large the Beijing Benz factory is in Beijing?
 
 Lei Xing (10:07)
 I I it must be at least in the 250, it's gotta be higher. If you combine the different plants,
 
 Tu Le (10:13)
 Yeah, I I think two fifty at the
 
 Lei Xing (10:15)
 yeah. So
 
 Tu Le (10:17)
 So let's say 400,000 units,
 
 Lei Xing (10:19)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (10:20)
 that means and for the sake of argument how in the US, how the automotive sector really kind of thinks about annual production, there's two hundred days of production, two hundred and twenty between two hundred and two hundred and thirty days of production. 'Cause
 
 Generally, you don't work on the weekends and you're running one shift or two shifts. And so if eight hours, one shift gives you three, four hundred cars, some factories are much more efficient, especially the mass market brands, they're closer to one car a minute. Okay. So Mercedes, let's say they make 400 cars a day in a shift. The CLA is not.
 
 selling enough vehicles for two or three shifts a
 
 Lei Xing (11:05)
 No.
 
 Tu Le (11:06)
 month. and so when you're selling and you're not at 80% capacity utilization, you're building at a loss. Now sometimes that loss is less than if you idle the plant, meaning you stop production. So this tells me that
 
 It's cheaper for them to idle the factory than to build these vehicles at a loss because
 
 Lei Xing (11:29)
 Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (11:31)
 they have no demand for them at any price. Or the price that they see or forecast would actually move metal and sell vehicles is too low and would damage their brand. That's how you should look at this.
 
 Lei Xing (11:48)
 Yeah. salt on the wound, right? over in the US here in the Chinese market. and then we talk about the the shareholder being Geely obvious through Li Shufu, but Geely, I mean, they're at it again with Ford. Not the first time that they've dealt with Ford. and it so happens to be
 
 The first two that are taking this new approach of setting up a joint venture utilizing an existing plant in Europe, it had to be Geely and Ford. And weirdly enough, Ford is the one who's Jim Farley is kind of against the Chinese coming into the US, right? And now they're working with Geely in Europe.
 
 What? When when?
 
 Tu Le (12:29)
 This is a formal joint venture
 
 owned 66% by Ford for sharing a massively underutilized factory in Valencia, Spain, where the I wanna say the Puma.
 
 what's the small car that Ford makes? It's called the it's not the Puma. Anyways, so
 
 Lei Xing (12:50)
 Yeah, I forgot too.
 
 Tu Le (12:52)
 I was told that that factory was running at 30% capacity utilization, so very, very, very underutilized. And so to me, this makes sense. They want to get back into Europe in a big way. Geely, this is an easier way for them because they don't.
 
 need the CapEx expenditure. And there's no doubt, and you know this and I know this, Lei, that this could lead to cooperation outside of Europe. And
 
 Lei Xing (13:24)
 And I was yeah.
 
 Tu Le (13:25)
 it seems like Ford has learned a lesson from its joint venture.
 
 and its challenges with the joint venture with Chang'an in China. And I've said this in past episodes, but let's be clear again. Ford was the one US automaker that did not go bankrupt. So they had this austerity to right the ship during 2008-2009. They did that, but that meant coming to China late.
 
 And when they came late, all the great dance partners were already taken. And Chang'an, as you know and I know, is down south. They have a chip on their shoulder because I think they feel SAIC, FAW get a lot of attention. So they are very, very Chinese in how they operate. They're a state owned enterprise based out of Chongqing.
 
 And so that relationship, and then it was already complicated because not only in the very beginning, it was a Ford and Mazda and Chang'an joint venture. And so from day one, it had its challenges. And so selecting Geely is a huge win for Ford, in my opinion, because
 
 Lei Xing (14:43)
 Yep.
 
 Tu Le (14:44)
 of their international experience and ability to work.
 
 With non Chinese brands.
 
 Lei Xing (14:52)
 Yeah, I guess it's not so surprising after Geely's activities in Europe from acquiring Volvo cars back in 2010 and then other ones, Lotus, Polestar London Taxi Company, CEVT, so that's a major region for them and to have this local manufacturing
 
 Done through this kind of partnership is smart. I think smart. And also remember it's a win for Spain. After the World Cup, of course, another win. And then remember, Prime Minister Sanchez visited China earlier this year. And I'm sure those discussions were had, including, including he visited Xiaomi.
 
 So it won't be surprising in about a year's time when Xiaomi announces something. Could it be in Spain? I don't know. But it's maybe maybe I would look at look
 
 Tu Le (15:45)
 Let's remind folks because
 
 Lei Xing (15:47)
 at this as a some kind of a domino starting to fall where European plant capacity from now on
 
 Tu Le (15:54)
 Is moving south.
 
 Lei Xing (15:55)
 well moving south but now also gobbled up by the Chinese.
 
 Tu Le (16:01)
 first of all, there's excess capacity in Europe. So this makes sense to buy up brownfields. Greenfield is effectively means building a brand new plant, writing two, three, four billion dollar checks, getting tax incentives
 
 Lei Xing (16:13)
 So yeah.
 
 Tu Le (16:14)
 from the countries or the regions or the cities that they're going to be built in. And then brownfields are existing factories, a good example is Volkswagen Group is going to close factories. Now
 
 A Geely, BYD, a Chery could come in and say, guess what? I can buy that and take that off your hands on fifty for fifty cents off on the dollar. So the local governments want that because it keeps people employed. Because if that capacity leaves that city, that region, it might never come back. but does the EU feel comfortable with selling capacity to the Chinese?
 
 That is kind of the question. And I want to focus a little bit on Spain and you fill in the blanks for me. CATL is building a gigafactory there. Volkswagen
 
 Lei Xing (16:59)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (17:02)
 Group is going to start building the triplets, the small cars that they launched in Munich last year. and so Spain has rolled out the red carpet to become the Southern European version of Detroit. Okay?
 
 And they've been very, very successful at it. And BYD is doing stuff in Spain as well. So will it work out for Spain in the long term? I don't know, but this seems like really, really a major hub, future hub for EU manufacturing for automobiles. So
 
 Lei Xing (17:36)
 It is. And then kind of He Xiaopeng last week he kind of alluded to Xpeng and Volkswagen potentially discussing further types of cooperative partnerships, more than just the 5% ownership, more than just the E/E architecture, possibility of utilizing plants, who knows? I think Xpeng is on the record saying, right, you saw that, you heard that, that they wanna
 
 produce elsewhere in addition to the Graz contract manufacturing plant in Austria.
 
 Tu Le (18:10)
 the Ford announcement with Geely. Now it's only been a day, but the initial read that I get from my local friends here in the state of Michigan is not super positive. But if Ford
 
 Lei Xing (18:22)
 But don't why?
 
 Tu Le (18:24)
 wants to be a global company, these things need to happen. And I'd written about this because
 
 Let talk about this a little bit more. Half a million units of capacity at 30%, it was shipping about 150,000 units a year. Now, Geely and Ford building on the same lines. That's likely gonna get closer to four, four fifty over the next several years. And Ford is creating a joint venture. No
 
 Dollar amounts have been disclosed, but it sounds like they're gonna be borrowing some technology from Geely in order to build some small cars. And so this,
 
 Lei Xing (19:00)
 Yeah. Mm-hmm. Crossover.
 
 Tu Le (19:03)
 this, Jim Farley said, hey, we'd love to experiment with a Chinese automaker in Europe to see if it would work. Right? To see if it would work. He said that.
 
 Lei Xing (19:11)
 Just not in the US. Not yet. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (19:15)
 And so this shouldn't surprise anyone. And
 
 You know, I have to give credit to the Financial Times because they got a lot of heat for those announcements and those articles that they had written about Ford and Xiaomi and then Ford and Geely. And, they're both true. it's an interesting time because everything is so polarizing and the United States is starting to feel more and more isolated because Canada and Mexico are now really, really
 
 Completely pivoted towards the Chinese automakers.
 
 Lei Xing (19:47)
 the changing of tide, this new equilibrium I talked about, I think is starting to
 
 shape and where we go from here. I think more announcements like Geely Ford will happen, and then I was looking at that picture
 
 Tu Le (20:00)
 where does that leave GM?
 
 Lei Xing (20:02)
 Well what first of all, GM still have not signed the joint venture contract extension with SAIC Motor.
 
 Tu Le (20:10)
 SAIC
 
 Lei Xing (20:11)
 Yep. It expires in about a year. I tend to think that they will sign it. It's just ironing all the details. but who knows? GM they're not really
 
 Tu Le (20:22)
 And C and E V
 
 Lei Xing (20:24)
 active in Europe, are they?
 
 Tu Le (20:27)
 CNEV Post had reported that the Wuling Bingo Pro is
 
 Lei Xing (20:34)
 yeah, sure. Mm-hmm. rebadged
 
 Tu Le (20:36)
 as a Chevy into Latin America. I can't imagine they won't actually try to also ship it to Europe.
 
 Lei Xing (20:44)
 that's already happening in Southeast Asia, right? In Indonesia, a lot of the rebadged Wuling or Baojun vehicles, that's already happening.
 
 Tu Le (20:51)
 so Wuling is a joint venture between GM and SAIC effectively, right? So they have an existing relationship with a Chinese automaker that is fairly global. Ex United States. So do they create additional joint ventures? Because right now
 
 They're the only major automaker who hasn't announced a partnership with a Chinese automaker for Europe. Okay, if you talk about Renault, you talk about Volkswagen Group, you know, Dong Feng is all over the place in Europe now. And who else? Polestar, Volvo,
 
 Lei Xing (21:27)
 LeapMotor & Stellantis, all right, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (21:30)
 everybody, everybody, everybody. the other thing too, and I'm on a roll now, man. the Leap Motor executive, I forget his name now, is now a Stellantis.
 
 Lei Xing (21:38)
 yeah.
 
 Tu Le (21:39)
 Executive.
 
 Lei Xing (21:41)
 Tianshu
 
 Tu Le (21:42)
 Tianshu, right. So
 
 Lei Xing (21:43)
 He's
 
 I actually know him from way back back in the days when he's just middle manager I think at Visteon China. and he went through the ranks.
 
 Tu Le (21:53)
 Ta de Ying Wen hao bu hao (is his English good?)
 
 Lei Xing (21:56)
 his English is quite good. I mean he's also the CEO
 
 Tu Le (21:58)
 Let's have on.
 
 Lei Xing (21:59)
 of LeapMotor International. So he retains
 
 Tu Le (22:02)
 Yeah, let's have them on.
 
 Lei Xing (22:03)
 that role in addition to being elevated to the China and Asia Pacific guy for Stellantis.
 
 And the former, it's interesting, the former Gregoire Olivier the former top guy now reports to him. I don't know what the arrangement is.
 
 Tu Le (22:19)
 So
 
 on LinkedIn, if you look at the announcement Lei, guess who congratulated him? Another former
 
 Lei Xing (22:27)
 Who who could
 
 Tu Le (22:28)
 head of Stellantis China, Sam Chung. Remember Sam? Yeah. Remember Sam? Well
 
 Lei Xing (22:32)
 okay, the Jeep guy. Yeah, cheap cheap
 
 Tu Le (22:35)
 no, so he was the cheap guy and then he got promoted for a short period of time when Stellantis was really kind of in between the Tavares no leadership thing.
 
 And I don't think he ever worked for Filosa but now it looks like Sam is Renault Korea head of sales or something
 
 Lei Xing (22:56)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (22:56)
 like that. So for those folks that are wondering, these are like the OG leadership from these companies that Lei and I know from back in the day. So
 
 Lei Xing (23:08)
 Yeah, a lot of these people are really I mean it's it's it's just you you see them grow through the ranks and now to this point we're heading.
 
 Tu Le (23:17)
 But hopefully deservingly so.
 
 Lei Xing (23:19)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (23:20)
 So
 
 Lei Xing (23:20)
 Mm.
 
 Tu Le (23:21)
 I'm sorry I didn't mean to jump around so much, but back to GM, what's your take? Do you think that they're going to try to 'cause GM effectively left Europe when they sold Opel, and
 
 Lei Xing (23:33)
 So right.
 
 So first of all they don't they may not need to do something like a Ford with Geely at all. There's no need for them to do it. But
 
 Tu Le (23:42)
 Maybe that negotiation with the contract Lei, is going to extend out to Europe.
 
 Lei Xing (23:49)
 Who knows? but I mean right, but at least
 
 Tu Le (23:50)
 the I mean the GM SAIC for those folks that are wondering.
 
 Lei Xing (23:53)
 if you look at the the GAC Honda's contract extension until 2038, I think in that press release it specifically stated that they will use kind of alluded to the fact that they will have to use GAC group technology underpinning their future vehicles because Honda
 
 at least that joint venture don't have any relevant products on the market, at least in terms of EVs. At least even
 
 Tu Le (24:23)
 Well Honda is gonna stop selling EVs
 
 altogether in the United States.
 
 Lei Xing (24:27)
 At least Toyota have the bZ, selling pretty well in China. Nissan have the N and NX. I've seen a lot of NX8s, look pretty nice. I think they figured something out on the streets of Beijing. but Honda just nothing. I think that ten years
 
 it's too little too late. Not better late than never. I think it's too little too late. And that will be true for quite a lot of these joint ventures, if they don't get the ship right. And going back to the Volkswagen Group, I mean they're going further down deeper into China, in China for China, when Horizon Robotics give you the white box, which means they give you the internal coding.
 
 They wanna have their own kind of the AI smart driving entity for the future products.
 
 Tu Le (25:17)
 horizon CARIZON Xpeng relationship. I don't and CARIAD.
 
 Lei Xing (25:22)
 So well,
 
 the difference basically, Xpeng is working with Volkswagen on the E/E architecture. And I guess the horizon joint venture between CARIAD and Horizon is more for the AI Smart Driving Foundation. And then they can utilize either chips from Xpeng or Horizon Robotics. I think they're using the C7H chip.
 
 on some of their next models.
 
 Tu Le (25:51)
 But a at
 
 a time they need to simplify.
 
 Lei Xing (25:54)
 Well, they some of
 
 Tu Le (25:55)
 They create these complications. So
 
 let me let me tell you from experience, Lei. Qualifying two different types of silicon I've said this or told this story before. in my prior life I was the GSM for graphics and
 
 I was sourcing graphics. Guess what? Memory. Same memory. On paper, it should be the exact same. But it came from two different brands. And one of them conflicted with my graphics chip firmware. Couldn't figure it out before launch. And so it was going to be a showstopper because the sourcing team hadn't bought all the memory from.
 
 The supplier that was already qualified, we had sourced like an 80-20. Okay, so the master production schedule could not be fulfilled because we weren't gonna have enough memory. And so we had to go to the gray market, swap out that memory until we figured out what the bug was.
 
 That's for memory for something that's supposed to be the exact same. Okay. And we already know that Volkswagen Group, their strength is not technology, it's not software, and it's not integration. So to bring in potentially an Xpeng chip and then a Horizon chip, it's nonsensical to me.
 
 Lei Xing (27:21)
 Well, at least they are simplifying through well, they haven't really talked about the 100,000 job cuts, the closing of plants, simplifying the number of models globally. but in China at least they have a path that they're following pretty closely. they're launching seven new NEVs before the end of the year. very critical and how they do n next year.
 
 Tu Le (27:46)
 the reality is that their China operations might leave their European operations in the dust. How is that going to play out? Cause could you see a Chinese person leading Volkswagen Group globally in the next five, seven years? I can't.
 
 Lei Xing (28:02)
 Not really. The structure or the supervisory or the family probably won't allow that.
 
 Tu Le (28:08)
 Precisely, but if the tail is wagging the dog, why wouldn't you do that? So business wise it might make sense,
 
 Lei Xing (28:15)
 But yeah. But
 
 Tu Le (28:17)
 but politically it would not.
 
 Lei Xing (28:20)
 It looks like Volkswagen just announced some first half financial numbers. getting slightly better. I think they increase the yearly guidance slightly. So improving, I guess. But okay, right? And then
 
 Tu Le (28:33)
 Okay. So that so so are you saying they found a bottom?
 
 Lei Xing (28:37)
 no. I don't think so.
 
 Tu Le (28:39)
 so I I'm gonna
 
 Lei Xing (28:40)
 Well, it depends on what you mean
 
 by finding and bottom. Are you meaning sales in China? No. No,
 
 Tu Le (28:43)
 Sales, sales, sales, yeah.
 
 Lei Xing (28:45)
 at least in China I think still some pain ahead. Yeah, still some pain ahead. And and
 
 Tu Le (28:48)
 Watongi. Watongi. Watongi. And and
 
 and I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna stretch my arm a little bit Lei. I'm gonna pat myself on the back. I am
 
 Lei Xing (28:56)
 This has becoming your ritual every episode.
 
 Tu Le (29:01)
 I'm on a roll this morning. I don't know why. Maybe it's I had two cups of coffee already, but I was on LinkedIn, one of the prominent analysts, he's now hanging up his own shingle and started his own advisory firm, and he's like
 
 asking a question he says, the Chinese are now an existential threat. And I'm like, dude, I've been talking about this for years about that being an existential threat. I don't know, man. I don't know anyone else. Our colleagues it's kind of a head scratcher because I I just don't know anyone else that
 
 That's been talking about it as long as I have or you know, as long as we have, to be f quite frank. But I'm gonna leave it at that.
 
 Lei Xing (29:44)
 like I said earlier, if you can't d beat them, you join And the famous quote I would think of from the Terminator is Come with me if you want to live.
 
 That's almost what's happening, I think, throughout the world, maybe except in the US, but every other part. Canada needs the Chinese. Europe needs the Chinese. And the Chinese needs them too. Because we we talked about BYD getting to number one without having the North American market. It's not possible. And given that their sales are down at home, I also want to think about.
 
 This equilibrium of the Chinese. There's too many brands. the numbers that I've seen thrown around is what 500, 600 models launched in the first half of 2026 in the Chinese market. Every single day there's some model launch happening. and
 
 this makes me think about the ES8 passing the 130,000 delivery number in ten months earlier this week. It's rare these days that you would find one model price at that high of a range, given the domestic involution, that it can stay at that level for such a long time.
 
 it's very rare because as soon as a model is launched a lot of time it loses the momentum and then these companies brands launch another model
 
 to kick up sales. And if you look at any one of these companies, they have multiple models on the market, but really the top sellers are only one or two that accounts for a significant portion of the sales. This is something I think in the recent days and weeks that I've been here, the industry has talking a lot about. This needs to be
 
 Rained in or it can't happen like that forever. Otherwise it's just waste of resources. waste of investment. It's something it's
 
 Tu Le (31:43)
 Well, this mass.
 
 Lei Xing (31:45)
 a negative side of we tal talk about the quote you just mentioned, but at the same time, right? two sides of the coin. Two sides of the coin.
 
 That we should talk about.
 
 Tu Le (31:53)
 Yeah well,
 
 but these were the risks when they created the monster. I'm certain He Xiaopeng, Brian Gu, Li Bin, Li Xiang, Wang Chuang Fu they're likely thinking in the back of their minds I could keep on doing this all day long. But they don't want to. Because they want to make money too. And
 
 As long as this goes on in China, especially with downward pressure on sales, and 2026 being a non growth year for China automotive sales, man, the elbows are gonna get sharper later this year. You know that, Lei. And look at Tesla earnings this week. They sold more cars, but their margins were compressed.
 
 Because they had to put more money on the hood, whether it's seven years, zero percent financing, whatever. And I'm still really rounding out the Tesla narrative because most analysts still only talk about what's happening in the West. And so you know, I was on a show,
 
 little self-promotion here. I was on Schwab Network yesterday talking about earnings or two days ago. and so Tesla is I don't know how long they can keep this up.
 
 Lei Xing (33:12)
 So Tesla, they're still profitable. So let's be clear, but their profit went down, right? still profitable, but it was a year on year drop. And then they had negative cash flow in Q2, which is it's been a long time that has happened. So they're burning. although a lot sales went up because they've been resilient in some of the European markets.
 
 and still in China. So what I was saying about the Chinese involution is that you have so many of these companies with so many brands and models, yet me being a Tesla stan now, Tesla still only really sells the 3 and the Y in the world. Granted, they don't have the geopolitical restrictions in other parts of the world like the Chinese have,
 
 That's why, I asked He Xiaopeng that question about when do you think there's actually a really true Model Y killer? And he's like, Well, I think it's not far away from China or Germany interestingly enough. But it's always two sides of the coin. I think anybody you speak of, any topic that we talk about.
 
 Tu Le (34:19)
 That's where we we we we
 
 Lei Xing (34:19)
 Well no, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (34:21)
 really do have to peel the layers of the onion back. How much more money and incentives that Tesla has to offer or provide in China in order to get to that 60,000-unit monthly run rate from a sales standpoint. Let's say they build seventy, eighty, ninety thousand cars a month. The mix of exports is likely to grow.
 
 Towards the end of this year, as the competition heats up even more. And let's assume that, and I'm just rounding out the numbers, there's a million units of capacity in Shanghai Giga. And we know that running it 80% is when you make your first dollar, generally speaking. And we also know that if Tesla dips in production, there's penalties that they likely need to pay.
 
 the city of Shanghai. So they cannot, they cannot idle factory, idle lines in Shanghai. Let's just remember that. So they're going to idle production in Fremont, in Austin, in Berlin before they do in Shanghai. I promise you that. And so let's keep a close eye on exports into Japan, into Australia, into the UK
 
 Lei Xing (35:33)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (35:35)
 into India, larger markets where the Y and 3 can be absorbed much more than in Canada. because that's really, really the indicator of whether or not the China market is really starting to weaken for Tesla.
 
 Lei Xing (35:50)
 But
 
 if I only do a simple gauge of who's selling who's not, if you just look at every time I go out on the streets of Beijing, the two brands I see the most, it's BYD and Tesla. Still. And there's popping up a lot of these new NIO ES9s, ZEEKR 9Xs and 8Xs some of these new joint venture Nissan vehicles here and there, but BYD and Tesla by far
 
 Just me looking on the road, still, there's tons of them. But it's only Beijing, so it's not the whole story.
 
 Tu Le (36:26)
 Anything else? Let me check my newsletter here.
 
 Lei Xing (36:29)
 yeah, I think we covered the big headlines this week.
 
 And then so I I've been driving a GX let me just say it's wild the VLA current iteration. I think He Xiaopeng, you guys need some more work. definitely there's good and the bad on the NGP stuff. 'Cause I'm coming in from
 
 an FSD perspective, which is like really good. I'm really happy with the FSD, but
 
 Tu Le (36:54)
 Well dude, come on. You're you're now 'cause
 
 Lei Xing (36:56)
 What
 
 Tu Le (36:58)
 remember you're also in the suburbs of Mass and you're in downtown Beijing,
 
 Lei Xing (37:02)
 Yes, yes, yes. But what I'm
 
 Tu Le (37:05)
 so it's it's not the same, dude. Come on.
 
 Lei Xing (37:06)
 Well it's not it
 
 is not the same. That's why I say it's really futile to compare and try to beat Tesla FSD. Just get better on your own. and hopefully before I leave I try some of these other systems, updated systems, just to compare how good they are. and I think the FSD approval in China is delayed again. It doesn't appear that we're gonna see it anytime soon.
 
 not before the summer is over.
 
 Tu Le (37:33)
 I don't know. I think it's gonna be delayed in perpetuity. I think it's gonna be held hostage for that grand bargain that Trump and Xi want, that grand deal.
 
 Lei Xing (37:41)
 Yeah. Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (37:43)
 so w I will spotlight FT does great work. they have a series coming out. the first one was yesterday and how the Chinese are entering Europe and
 
 This article focused on the premium sector and I helped Kana and Ed a little bit on it. But there are still Europeans, Germans. they're not gonna win in Europe. The premium segment, they're too traditional, blah, blah, blah. That's why I started the consultancy, because that's all I heard in 2015, 2016, from the Germans living in Beijing.
 
 Lei Xing (38:17)
 I think let's
 
 let's not be naive on both the Chinese side. So He Xiaopeng he showed a lot of humility, right? Maybe that's PR or not, but on the same side, the Europeans should not be naive in thinking
 
 What you just said.
 
 Tu Le (38:32)
 it's not gonna be because the cars are crap, okay? It's not gonna be.
 
 Lei Xing (38:36)
 Yeah, not to say that the Chinese don't
 
 don't have their own problems, issues that need they need to tackle over.
 
 Tu Le (38:42)
 the most important thing is that brand is still very significant in Western markets. Trust, awareness, and the ZEEKRs. So I'm gonna call out a few specific brands here. You know, the ZEEKRs because they're kind of premium. The NIOs, NIO's is struggling in Europe.
 
 Lei Xing (39:02)
 Well, Neil,
 
 so remember NIO is trying to reach profitability this year. That's why they're holding the NIO Day at the end of the year instead of in September. Because what's their goal in the second half? No more new models. Just push, push, push, sell.
 
 so case by case is where now you're seeing Xpeng aggressively. What up from Atlanta? Hello,
 
 Tu Le (39:27)
 Hallana, what's up, baby?
 
 Lei Xing (39:29)
 Atlanta, Atlanta from Hot Beijing. right. Expo
 
 Tu Le (39:32)
 From cool
 
 Metro Detroit.
 
 Lei Xing (39:35)
 So Xpeng is pushing aggressively with this recent global launch.
 
 Tu Le (39:39)
 Aggressively.
 
 Lei Xing (39:40)
 And then Li Auto is they just announced that they're gonna produce in Kazakhstan. And they're gonna be in the Paris Motor Show, right? Entering Europe with the Mega entering
 
 Tu Le (39:51)
 i6
 
 Lei Xing (39:52)
 yeah, MEGA entering like Hong Kong and some right hand drive markets.
 
 Tu Le (39:58)
 And the i6's entering Europe. So
 
 Lei Xing (39:59)
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (40:02)
 Li Auto's gonna need to make a splash in Paris. they're gonna need to do something unique. And so let's get to comments.
 
 Good morning, gentlemen. What are your thoughts? this is PF Cutters.
 
 Good morning, gentlemen. What can can the audience members do me a favor? I would love to know where you guys are dialing in from. I am not a content creator. That's that's
 
 Lei Xing (40:27)
 We know one from the US.
 
 Tu Le (40:30)
 not my my profession. So I know there's a way to to look at where people are watching from, but if you're doing a comment, maybe you can just put a
 
 A flag emoji so we know where you're coming from. Just so we're reassured that we do have a global audience. Anyways, good morning, gentlemen. unfortunately, 9 a.m. Eastern time is not ideal for a lot of places. But what are your thoughts on Xpeng's X9 recall due to air suspension failure because of
 
 Lei Xing (41:03)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (41:04)
 high heat? How serious is it?
 
 Lei Xing (41:06)
 So they just announced recall today. I think at the direction of what's the entity that announces recall? The commission, one of the commissions. They along with the GAC AION recently had a battery problem from CALB Remember CALB is also
 
 Tu Le (41:23)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Lei Xing (41:24)
 the battery supplier to Xpeng. These two companies, the MIIT
 
 visited them in recent days to check up on quality assurance processes. So I think we shouldn't be surprised or we shouldn't I mean recalls are recalls. They're gonna happen no matter what. it's a normal occurrence for the auto industry for a long time. I think the situation was I think the
 
 Tu Le (41:49)
 Just as GM the US.
 
 Lei Xing (41:52)
 The thing was the supplier of these airsprings in humid conditions they kind of sacked or something. I haven't looked too much detail into it, but it's I mean it's a regional thing in certain weather conditions, but from your perspective, having worked in the parts quality.
 
 Should that happen at all? is something missing? Because
 
 Tu Le (42:15)
 Well, I I look at it this way, Lei.
 
 Lei Xing (42:17)
 recently some CEO was really dunking on others without naming names and saying a lot of these brands are bypassing the necessary testing phases to push out products onto the market.
 
 Tu Le (42:33)
 I do think that's happening. I can't tell you who. I haven't heard any rumors of many particular companies.
 
 Lei Xing (42:36)
 Yeah, we can't pinpoint who, but right.
 
 Tu Le (42:40)
 There's a bit of irony here. Guangzhou is super hot all the time. So for a component to lose its effectiveness during high heat is a little bit weird to me. but
 
 In automotive parlance, I don't think this is a showstopper. normally, hey, does the show go on? The show goes on. This is a little bit of a black eye to Xpeng. It could become a huge black eye if more and more fail and Xpeng is not able to address
 
 Lei Xing (43:13)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (43:13)
 the quality spill, what insiders will call a quality spill.
 
 So what's likely happening, or in my experience, what happens is Xpeng sends engineers to that supplier and they work on a fix for that problem, depending on how severe they believe it to be. And there's an engineering change put in by that supplier, and then quickly the engineering change is implemented into the new part. A new part number is created, shipped to Xpeng, it's tested, and then
 
 If Xpeng says yes, then that new part number goes into production. Okay. I don't know what the timing on stuff like that is, but in traditional automotive, that could take months. I'm assuming that in China that takes more like weeks.
 
 I'm not talking particular about this part, I'm just saying the usual process.
 
 Lei Xing (44:09)
 Yeah, I mean could this have been prevented,
 
 Tu Le (44:10)
 So also
 
 Lei Xing (44:12)
 right? in the first place.
 
 Tu Le (44:14)
 Well, to your point though, Lei, you know, recalls are gonna happen. I think the goal is Six Sigma, but these things happen. now also any opinions on Xpeng hinting that Tesla is their only rival.
 
 I think that's He Xiaopeng
 
 Lei Xing (44:26)
 I don't know who
 
 Tu Le (44:27)
 just just being making bold statements, to be honest with you.
 
 Lei Xing (44:30)
 I
 
 don't know if He Xiaopeng actually made that specific statement. I
 
 Tu Le (44:34)
 I haven't heard that, but
 
 Lei Xing (44:35)
 haven't heard that, but our familiarity with Xpeng, I would I do will say that Xpeng is closest being to a China Tesla, because everything they're doing, vision based autonomous driving robots.
 
 those are yeah, AI and you know, chips.
 
 there's some similarities, who's copying who. you know, it's anybody's guess.
 
 Tu Le (45:00)
 Robo taxis.
 
 Lei Xing (45:02)
 Robotaxis, right. forgot about that. everything and they're
 
 Tu Le (45:06)
 Here's one.
 
 Lei Xing (45:06)
 approaching it from the L2 to L4 which Tesla is doing. So that's the biggest common denominator, other than the the other ones.
 
 Tu Le (45:15)
 Here's a quick one. Some people saying Toyota, the number one automaker, is the most efficient manufacturer with only over two hundred and fifty thousand employees globally. And that BYD's extra recruitment drive to topple them won't work out. Do you agree?
 
 Lei Xing (45:29)
 Maybe half agree, half not agree. I think BYD they've proven that their this the sea of people strategy have worked for them. Because how they have like how many divisions doing different things that every division has tens of thousands of engineers. it's probably not gonna work for Toyota, but BYD, that's their way of
 
 they're doing things. they're still hiring. Remember one year they hired or one month they hired what how many students? That was a few years ago? 20 or
 
 Tu Le (46:01)
 Twenty thousand? Something like that?
 
 Lei Xing (46:02)
 was it h that's a huge number? Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (46:05)
 Huge number.
 
 So BYD is gonna have to learn to be more efficient, especially when operating outside of China. And I would also look at Toyota in Japan, they have these Karetsu's where there's a supplier. So you can almost look at the Karetsu as an extension of Toyota, almost like Toyota
 
 Lei Xing (46:27)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (46:27)
 employees. So discreetly Toyota might pay two hundred and fifty thousand people, but I think relationally
 
 they have formal relationships with suppliers that help them achieve their goals. Now, Toyota has to be considered one of the most efficient companies in the world because it's the largest automaker that's profitable. And they operate in so many different countries. The level of complexity, once you get into country number two, country number 10, country number 50, country number 100, and you're selling at volume in many of those regions and markets.
 
 it should be applauded because it is impressive. So Aprez Ronaldi, what's going on, man? haven't seen you on the show in a couple couple episodes. In Wuling, Indonesia is a subsidiary in Wuling Indonesia is a subsidiary of Wuling China. and then Pf Cutters again says also.
 
 Since Trump is imposing another 50% on Canada, 10% on Mexico, does this now close the door for the so-called for any backdoor Chinese EVs from entering the USA? PF Cutters, I'd mentioned the Connected Vehicle Security Act, that is likely going to close the door. And effectively the door is closed. There's no Chinese cars here. There's no Chinese, there's no announcements of Chinese EV companies entering the US. So
 
 Lei Xing (47:51)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (47:52)
 The current restrictions in place are doing their job. We can debate whether or not we like them, but we can't debate their effectiveness because there are no Chinese cars here. this week's CNBC blurb, this is Tom H on Toyota, Hyundai, and Honda as the top three HEV OEMs with 80%, 86% US market share. When added to
 
 Lei Xing (48:12)
 Yeah, like what? 80 percent? 80 per yeah. I mean I I've I've been a Hyundai
 
 I've been a Hyundai hybrid owner, so I know they're selling a lot a lot of
 
 Tu Le (48:22)
 Whe
 
 Lei Xing (48:23)
 hybrids.
 
 Tu Le (48:24)
 when added to the Detroit three BEV numbers point to their overall weakness in NEVs.
 
 Lei Xing (48:30)
 I think it's just the structure
 
 of the market. you know, unlike China is completely different.
 
 Tu Le (48:35)
 Well, the market here
 
 Lei Xing (48:35)
 No, really.
 
 Tu Le (48:36)
 is being yo yoed back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, but it
 
 Lei Xing (48:38)
 Yeah. There's there's just
 
 really it's simple answer, there's just really no choice and selection or option of good NEVs. That's it. So hybrids are pretty mature and every you know those three companies are doing hybrids. Yeah, okay. Without the
 
 Tu Le (48:54)
 So
 
 Lei Xing (48:54)
 proper like infrastructure, the pricing affordability, you don't have a market.
 
 Tu Le (49:01)
 100% agree. I was at a private event this week. The CFO at Slate was talking, very excited. obviously he feels that Slate has an opportunity to disrupt what's going on. And then there's a Silicon Valley company startup called Tilo Trucks. It looks like Tarpenning and Eberhard, the original founders of Tesla, have invested in Tilo Trucks.
 
 Lei Xing (49:21)
 Hmm. Still at it.
 
 Tu Le (49:25)
 And Slate starts at twenty-five, Tilo Trucks, which is a technology packed small truck, is starting at forty-one thousand. So to your point, Lei, more products,
 
 Lei Xing (49:38)
 You know, yeah.
 
 Tu Le (49:39)
 better products, affordable products. We'll start to see the roller coaster really, really smooth out and NEV adoption increase.
 
 Especially once Canada starts seeing more and more Chinese brands.
 
 Lei Xing (49:53)
 I was just thinking about the starting price of the MONA L03 in Germany, 35,600 Euros. It's the same starting price of the GX, much bigger flagship SUV in China.
 
 Tu Le (50:07)
 So Tom H, when you think of VW, remember GM. On the outside, there's one brand. On the inside, there are multiple teams fiercely fighting for their own agendas. That's right, Tom. a Preza. China copies each other, making product integration in China very strong. Everyone uses the same screens, car seats, same components. Too many Elon Musk bootlickers.
 
 It's impossible to kill the Model Y
 
 Lei Xing (50:35)
 You know, yeah, that's why
 
 I think that He Xiaopeng I think his answer was a little bit diplomatic, but yeah, I think it's actually hard to well, I mean, I said the caveat because if there was one model that can be sold everywhere in the world, it might be different. But at least the Tesla is in more markets and dominate the US market. What is that?
 
 one company that dominates the Chinese market will have a model, single model that dominates the rest of the world. From that perspective, it might
 
 Tu Le (51:08)
 Well that depend
 
 Lei Xing (51:09)
 be a little bit harder, right?
 
 Tu Le (51:11)
 Well, it's not going to happen unless a Chinese brand has factories in three regions. You know, large factories.
 
 Lei Xing (51:18)
 Yeah, right. Sure.
 
 Tu Le (51:20)
 they have reach in it creates opportunity to sell without shipping, without tariffs and things like that. So there's fundamentally an advantage that Tesla has over any Chinese automaker.
 
 with regard to Tesla, they enjoyed first mover status, but their innovation pipeline has been pretty skinny compared with their BEV competitors. Yesterday's home run doesn't count in today's ball game. You're absolutely right. But I just kind of stated why they still have an advantage, or one of the reasons.
 
 Lei Xing (51:52)
 Mm-hmm.
 
 Tu Le (51:52)
 NIO Worldwide, what's up from Atlanta?
 
 Lei Xing (51:56)
 Yeah.
 
 Tu Le (51:57)
 Tom H NHTSA manages recalls in the US.
 
 okay, cool. Max from co he's from Canada, so he has the Canadian
 
 Lei Xing (52:06)
 All right.
 
 Tu Le (52:07)
 flag. What's up man? What's up to my brother to the north?
 
 Actually, my brother to the south because I have to drive south to get to Canada. is Huawei incorporating CATL battery swap? In the five
 
 Lei Xing (52:21)
 yeah.
 
 Tu Le (52:21)
 minute fast charge and robot arm is the future. Why new companies starting to use battery swap? SSJJ005.
 
 Lei Xing (52:30)
 So Huawei no, right? I don't but what I'm seeing what was something that was mentioned, He Xiaopeng said he thinks future the autonomous charging is gonna be a thing. So I posted some updates of the autonomous charger. Hey, same here, Felix. right next to where I'm staying, there's testing every day now and then. And that's Li Auto's solution.
 
 Tu Le (52:54)
 Dude, you gotta stay downtown.
 
 You can't stay in the burbs, dude. You can't stay in freaking
 
 Lei Xing (52:57)
 Hey, the bird, I'm
 
 telling you, Shunyi is no longer a burb because of the Jing Mi Expressway. It takes twenty five minutes to get to inside the third-ring road.
 
 Tu Le (53:10)
 It's still the burbs, man. It's still the burbs, man.
 
 Lei Xing (53:10)
 Which is fast by cheaper flat
 
 Tu Le (53:13)
 so Tom H is from the USA. great now let me see here. I think that's it, man. a lot of interaction. Love this. We might actually in the future if we continue to get this interaction Lei, we need to shorten our actually speaking part and maybe we just spend more time answering questions.
 
 Lei Xing (53:30)
 I'm fine. I'm fine with with
 
 timing. I'm fine with shortening it. Whatever. Midnight, we talked about midnight, so
 
 Tu Le (53:36)
 Let me let me so for for for the people
 
 still on the live stream, do you prefer to have it at nine AM Eastern or twelve PM Eastern? Let me know. I'll give you guys thirty seconds to let me know what you think.
 
 Lei Xing (53:51)
 I'm fine with either timing. regardless. 'cause twelve PM is what? Yeah. Midnight, so no problem for me.
 
 Tu Le (54:00)
 It's five PM in Europe. It's midnight
 
 in China. but our California folks would appreciate a little bit later.
 
 Lei Xing (54:08)
 Right, 'cause it's nine AM will be six AM. So if you want to do it twelve PM, fine with me.
 
 Tu Le (54:14)
 We can try it when you're back. Or maybe next week or something. Yeah, so
 
 Lei Xing (54:17)
 Even next week. is it
 
 actually might work out to be better for me because Friday nights, you know?
 
 Tu Le (54:22)
 my
 
 god, dude, somebody just called us Trump. we've been at 9 for a very long time. So we're just trying to be more accommodating to our global audience. man, so anyways, everyone?
 
 Lei Xing (54:36)
 So
 
 next week important event is Xiaomi is having the tech launch of the Sky Nomad. What's the model name? I already forget. N90 N and
 
 Tu Le (54:47)
 boy.
 
 Lei Xing (54:47)
 So actually I'll be able to attend that one. and should be a big event because that car is has some interesting features.
 
 you think that of all
 
 Tu Le (54:57)
 Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing it in real life.
 
 Lei Xing (55:00)
 Yeah, you think all of these SUVs with all the interior configurations and and smart features, what more can you do while Xiaomi I guess they're gonna show something.
 
 Tu Le (55:10)
 All right, man. I'm expecting a full update next week. So everyone, thank you for joining us as always. Love the interaction. We will see you all next week. Let's do twelve PM next week, good
 
 Lei Xing (55:25)
 Yeah, I can do that, no problem. If needed.
 
 Tu Le (55:28)
 morning, good afternoon, good evening. We'll talk with y'all later.
 
 Lei Xing (55:31)
 Same here, but