E53: 2024 Repro BioArt Awards with Ingrid Carvacho, and Martin Estermann

What happens when you look at a scientific failure from a different angle? In this episode, we celebrate the intersection of aesthetic beauty and rigorous research as we sit down with the inaugural winners of the SSR ReproBioArt Contest.

Join us as Dr. Ingrid Carvacho (Universidad Católica del Maule, Chile) and Dr. Martin Estermann (NIH) reveal the stories behind their award-winning images. From a "rejected" chicken embryo that transformed into a vibrant butterfly to a two-cell embryo that looks like a distant solar system, our guests discuss how high-resolution imaging is changing the way we understand the beginnings of life.

In this episode, we explore:

• The Serendipity of Discovery: How a 180-degree flip turned Martin’s "urogenital butterfly" from a rejected journal cover into a prize-winning masterpiece.
• Science Beyond the Capital: Ingrid’s powerful story of building a research program in regional Chile and the "infrastructure gap" that required a three-hour drive just to access a microscope. 
• The Power of Metaphor: Why describing early embryo development as a "complex universe" helps bridge the gap between the lab and the general public. 
• The Future of Imaging: A look at cutting-edge techniques like Expansion Microscopy and how researchers are "stretching" cells to see life in higher resolution than ever before.
  Featured Guests:
• Dr. Ingrid Carvacho: Associate Professor and PI of the Lab of Ion Channels and Reproduction. Winner of the People’s Choice Award. 
• Dr. Martin Estermann: Postdoctoral Fellow in Dr. Humphrey Yao’s lab at NIEHS. Winner of the SSR Members' Choice Award.

About the ReproBioArt Contest: Organized by the SSR Public Affairs Committee, this contest celebrates the visual representation of scientific research related to the study of reproduction. To view the winning images discussed in this episode, follow SSR on social media or visit [SSR.org].

Transcript

Welcome to the future conceived the podcast for SSR for the first time, SSR organized the Repro Bio Art contest. This image contest was put together by the SSR Public Affairs Committee to celebrate visual representation of scientific research related to the study of reproduction. Images were submitted and people were able to vote online, and then the top ten voted images were exposed. During SSR meeting in Dublin and SSR attendees voted for their favorite image. So for this first edition of the Repro Bio Art contest, two awards were attributed the Repro Bio Art People's Choice Award, which is given to the image with the most popular online vote, was attributed to Doctor Ingrid Carvacho, and we have the Repro Bio Art SSR Award, which was given to the image with the highest number of votes collected on site during the twenty twenty four SSR Annual Meeting in Dublin, and this award was attributed to Doctor Martin Esterman. Let's meet our two awardees. Let's start with our first winner. Ingrid. Hello, Ingrid. Hello. Hello. So, uh, can you introduce yourself to the audience? Yeah. Of course. So, my name is Ingrid Carvacho. Uh, I am, um, associate professor in the Faculty of Medicine of Universidad Catolica del Maule. I am also the principal investigator of the Lab of Ion Channels and Reproduction from Universidad Catolica del Maule. And I have a group of very talented students that were taking this picture that won the prize. So I'm very, very happy about it. So can you tell us a little bit about your career path? Sure. I did my undergrad in a city called Concepcion. I never have studied in any part of my, um, scientific pathway in Santiago. So I am a very, uh, supporting the regions of Chile outside of the capital. So I did my undergrad in Concepcion, I am biochemist. Then I did my PhD in Valdivia and in cellular and Molecular biology with the focus in ion channels, ion channels, biophysics. And then I went to Harvard. I was working with David Clapham in Harvard Medical School. And then over there I started to get interested in reproduction. So because my background was in ion channels, I was like, okay, so I need to combine both and try to really understand how the homeostasis work. You know, determining, um, the oocyte maturation and the oocyte activation and obviously also the early embryo development. So the first part of my postdoc at Harvard with David Clapham was about the characterization of ion channel. But then the second part, it was, uh, characterization of a channel in the membrane of mouse oocytes. And then I moved to Denmark, to Arhus University. Uh, with the group of Doctor Karin Hartmann and early embryo development also trying to understand the role of triptans in early embryo development. And then in twenty seventeen, I came back to Chile. I start, uh, start my own lab. And at the beginning, I had a lot of teaching. So I needed to, you know, prepare a lot of classes. But then after a while, I got the grants. You know, at first, my lab was first financed by an NIH. So I'm very, you know, grateful for that. I had a collaboration. I have still a collaboration with Doctor Rafael Fissore in UMass Amherst. So he was applying for a grant and I was, um, a co-investigator there. So, uh, with this grant, I could start the lab. And then after that, I got Chilean grant from the science ministry, and, uh, this is where I am now. What does your image. So your image was called the first two planets of a complex universe. Can you tell us about your image and what it represents? So we were trying a protocol to activate X using strontium chloride, and we wanted to be sure that everything was working fine. And we decided at the end of the protocol to stain the two cells using Phalloidin and the nucleus using Dapi. And this image that you saw in the in the contest, this was the result of that. And why we put this name is because actually it's a it's a very funny, um, thing. I was in a, in a meeting like a dinner with some friends, and I showed the image and one of my, my friends say, oh, this is look like a planet, like, look like two planets. And I'm like, yeah, it's actually look like two planets. And the two planets of, like, a complex organism. That is going to be then later. Right. So we call it the image, the first two planets of a complex universe that is actually the organism that is going to, you know, then later on, can you tell us a little bit more about the context of your research for your image? Yeah. So we are um, we are studying the role of ion channels in different processes in the oocyte. So we wanted to, you know, understand how calcium, magnesium, zinc, actually, um, you know, determine cellular processes in the oocyte. Right. And for that we work with animal models. And we also have like this, um, confocal imaging. And we do basically a lot of electrophysiology too. So in the context of two study or like to establishing a way to study the first division of uh, of oocyte without using a sperm, because this is the first way to do it. Right. Um, we decided to do it using, um, an artificial activation of oocyte, which is with the strontium chloride. And this is this is what's the result of one of the first experiment that we were establishing that we were establishing this protocol. Very nice. Our second twenty twenty four repro Bio Award winner is Martin Estermann. Hello, Martin. Hello. How are you? I'm doing great. Could you introduce yourself to the auditors? So, hello, my name is Martin Estermann. I'm currently a postdoc at NIH working in gonadal sex differentiation, using mouse as a model for mammalian sex differentiation. So, could you tell us a little bit about your career path? I'm originally from Argentina, where I did my undergrad. Um, working in medaka fish in temperature, sex differentiation. So that's where my sex differentiation career actually started. Then I moved to Australia to do my PhD and I'm in at Monash University in the laboratory, working in the chicken as a model for sex differentiation, um, and trying to identify new candidate genes that are important in this sex differentiation process, at least in birds. And later I moved to the NHS in North Carolina, USA to do my postdoc at lab, where I started studying how different cells in the mouse gonad differentiate. And currently I'm working on how metabolism controls gonadal sex differentiation and fertility, using the mouse as an animal model. So, Martin, your image was called the euro gonadal butterfly. So can you tell us a little bit more about what it represents and the context of the research behind it? Yeah. So this image is actually a cross section of embryonic gonads and mesonephros And um, it's same for cytokeratin that labels like the epithelial cells and also it's label for pax2 in magenta. That's one of the cells that that forms not only the kidney but also the gonads in chickens. So the reason of the name is actually a play of words. And because a butterfly chickens when you like section, uh, like a chicken and you open it up. So instead of that in here, we have a butterfly that comes out of chicken. So that's why it's called like the chicken butterfly. And I select this image because I was playing with the, the the results. And actually I didn't realize it looked like butterfly until like I flipped it one hundred and eighty degrees and then it's like, oh, it looks like a butterfly has like the anthers, they have the eyes and everything. So then like it was impossible not to see butterfly after doing that. Can you tell us a little bit more about the context of your butterfly? So as I mentioned during my PhD, I work in chicken sex differentiation. And in particularly I was interested to know how these cells are called supporting cells that are the ones that are going to nourish the germline, differentiate in different species. In my PhD, I discovered that these supporting cells are actually not conserved, or at least the origin of these supporting cells is not conserved in birds and mammals. And what we found is that these cells are coming from a Pax2 positive, um, population. That's mesenchymal compared to what happens in mammals, where it's more from the epithelium. So basically this image is actually a transverse section of the embryonic chicken where you can see these pax2 positive cells in the mesenchyme. They're actually becoming later the supporting cells. So basically I feel like this image represents what my PhD was about. And one of my most interesting findings during my PhD. And I would say at least by now during my career. Yeah. And what nice imaging of your PhD and having a prize for it. Well, actually, I feel that this image was rejected a lot because I submitted for different covers or different papers, but it was never picked on. I don't know why. Probably because they have better other competitions, and so I'm really happy to see that, at least in the field, it was really appreciated because I feel it's one of the most pretty images I generated during my career, so it's really nice to be at least show that the people have some enthusiasm in this picture that I actually love. Yeah, it was image are beautiful. And for people listening to us, you can find the image on SSR social medias. You have really a beautiful set of images. So what does imaging, uh what place does imaging take in your research? Uh, Martin, I feel like in my current position we do imaging a lot and I would say like fifty percent or more of our time are doing images or at least Immunofluorescence. Um, so we rely on this technique a lot. And I feel like over time, you can see if you check the first images that were generated and check the ones that I generated recently, you can see that there was an improvement. So there's a huge progression through, um, how you set up things and how you make the protocol work. So, um, what actually we are doing right now is trying to do not only in frozen or paraffin sections, but also try to do whole mount imaging and try to have more a 3D structure of the whole gonad and testes and ovaries. And uh, that's mainly where I want my research to go on, and especially trying to do different techniques like light microscopy. And even we're trying to do a protocol for expansion microscopy. So let's see if that works. Let's cross fingers for that. What is expansion microscopy. So basically what you do is you you fix your tissue or your tissue sections or your cells, whatever you want to expand through a acrylamide gel. And then you basically add water to actually expand it. So because all the the different molecules are going to be cross-linked to the, to the, the gel, as long as you put more water, it's going to continue expanding. And that's actually giving you more resolution of your tissue without needing to use any fancy, um, electron microscopy so you can gain more resolution by separating the molecules further. Very interesting. What about you, Ingrid? What place does imaging takes in your research? Well, actually, um, I would say that it's very important to see, like, cellular process that will be affected for, um, you know, impaired homeostatic balance, because when you do electrophysiology, what you see is currents, right? You see ions moving that is um, that are representing as current. Right. So um, and this is not very informative in terms of cellular processes. Right. You just see that ions are crossing the membrane. Right. This is what you see. So you say okay calcium is entry into the cell because you see an like an inward current or I don't know, potassium is going out because you see an outward current, right? But you don't actually see how this, um, impair ion homeostasis is impacting the cellular processes. So for that we use imaging. So we have this nice combination of to have electrophysiology for one side. And then we say okay, maybe calcium is affecting that. We know it's affecting like process processing egg activation. Right. So we wanted to test if this for instance is affecting the distribution of cortical granules, the extrusion, the exocytosis of cortical granules, or if it is affecting the position of the spindle, let's say, you know, all all of these cellular processes, we need to like, see it in a way. Right. And this is, uh, in the moment that imaging is very important for us to see that at the moment we are doing mostly fixed cells, but we are planning to, as Martin say, extended to also live imaging. You know, we are doing some, um, calcium imaging also in collaboration with Doctor Rafael Fissore and UMass Amherst. Uh, it's very important for us to combine what we see in the electrophysiology with the imaging. So it's very important, I will say fifty and fifty. Very good. So what are you guys working on currently? Are you still working on the same project or do you have new projects coming up? So I can start um, as you can see that this image was generated in chicken. So it was from my PhD where I studied how, um, gonads forming chickens. Um, so now I moved into, uh, during my postdoc. I'm moving to a mammalian model. So I'm actually continue studying how, um, different gonadal cells differentiate and how they, um, different genetic and non-genetic cues affect the differentiation process. But instead of doing it in chickens and moving into mammalians and also moving also into other non-genetic cues, for example, how metabolism control this process. But at the same time, I think I'm bringing back this year or this coming year, the chicken model, and try to do a more comparative approach into into these processes. So I'm bringing the chicken back at some point. So more butterflies. What about you, Ingrid? So my lab is working in several lines. So for instance, we are also interested in like a complex of proteins. Right. So we know that ion channels are regulating the ions during cellular processes. But at the same time there is accessory proteins that modulate the activation or inactivation or like inactivation for instance, of ion channels. So we are trying to understand how these complexes that that involve not just ion channels, but also other proteins can be important on determinant in, uh, different cellular processes. This is one thing. And then we are also interesting at the moment in how are the biochemical mechanism of fertilization in felines like cats? Because we have a, a grant at the moment that, um, is looking like we are aiming to understand if there are like what, what things are similar or different in comparison with rodent, because we think that if we know basically how is the biochemistry of in terms of ion homeostasis, in fertilization in cats, we can, you know, improve the condition for preservation of species. In Chile, we have a small cat called the cat. And one of the problem is that obviously is in in danger. And we don't know much about how the how is the biochemistry of the fertilization in cats, you know, and we we are also working in what I already say that a cortical distribution eg activation, early step, early embryo development in terms of what ions we need to promote or to support cellular process during oocyte maturation and early embryo development. So one last question for both of you. When was your first meeting and what was what is your best memory of SSR meeting? Martin. So my first SSR was actually the one that happened here in in Dublin. So I feel like it was not the real SSR experience because it was not in America. It was like in a different place. I feel like it was filled with European researchers. So I guess that it was learning about so many things and so many, um, different research going into the world. Um, but I feel like one of my best experiences was trying to at least meet the people that you read the papers on all the time and try to approach them. Even big names that you can like, are afraid of. Uh, talk to them. But they were all friendly, so I feel like this is a good place to, like, socialize and meet new people and try to to at least discuss about the different research that you have and what you're showing. So I feel like it was a really positive experience, even for a first comment like me. So I'm really hopeful to see how that's going to be different from the ones happening in America, for example, this year. What about you, Ingrid? Actually, similar than Martin. Uh, so my first SSR meeting was this one I was attending before to grcs in, in the States. Um, and but then I have never been in SSR before, and it was great. I mean, it was super wonderful to talk to people because actually I had like a questions, you know, and I was like, okay, he can help me or she can help me, you know, and I go and approach to the people. Everybody was super friendly, was super open to talk about science, to discuss about protocols. So it was a it was a great experience. And it was also very nice for me to see my colleagues since I am back in Chile, is it was difficult to see them so often, even the colleagues in Argentina that are my partner when we go to meetings. So it was very nice that I was alone there. Actually, I think it was a extremely good experience. And moreover, the price, it was a very important thing for my university too. I am in a university that is outside of Santiago, which Chile is very centralized, right? So when you are outside of Santiago, everything is more complicated. And we actually fought a lot for to get that microscope. You know, uh, in the region that we are that is the seventh region is called Maule. Uh, we didn't have any, like, uh, equipment, like the confocal, actually, we just have, uh, fluorescence microscopy. So what we were doing is in my lab, We were like collecting samples and also other labs from other universities from here, from Morley. We collect some samples that were already fixed and travel to Concepcion. That is three hours, two and a half hours from here to use the confocal over there. Or some other people were traveling to Santiago, which is also two and a half like two hours and a half or three hours to go to Santiago to use the the scopes over there, because the interesting and very sad part that is actually Santiago, because it's the center, is the capital of Chile. Concentrate most of the confocal microscopy microscope in Chile. Actually the confocal that we have that that is the one that we use to get the image, that one, the price. So in Chile we have grants that are for equipment. Uh, so the first application that did didn't, didn't get to the final, but it was very close to get to the final. I was writing this application and I needed to get all the microscope that are similar in Chile and where I where they are located and why we need to have one of this kind here in Maule. And at that moment that this was twenty twenty, Santiago has eleven confocal microscopes. And then Concepcion has I don't know how many. And we didn't have any. Yeah. You know, so it was actually the application went through very well. And we were the first or the second in the waiting list. I was so frustrated. I was like, how they cannot see that how important and how unfair it is. But then, uh, we resubmit the application to the next round. Another colleague did it, and then we were like fixing the comment of the reviewers, and we got the money to get the confocal that now we have in, in Talca. So it's actually changed our life, right? Because it is I mean, I know I was doing my my postdoc in the state and in front of my room. It was a it was not the big deal, you know. But when I came back to Chile and I realized that we didn't have one, it was like how difficult it was, especially if you are not in Santiago. So it has been a like a, a big challenge to, to do science from Chile, but especially in a place that is not Santiago and is not a big city. Yeah, it's it's the things we don't think about, like having direct access to such tools. Ides are there, but doing the experiment and being able, for instance, here to do the imaging can be really complicated in different parts of the world. So that's that's quite remarkable that now you're able to do your own, uh, imaging locally instead of driving three hours to a different place. No. And it's actually very good also to, to get the community of scientists together. Right? Because now we know. I mean, I, I know a lot of scientists here in my area, and we usually do that. Like we say, okay, from the area, what do we need to improve the science that we are developing in Talca? Talca is the city. So a very inspiring to see that we are all trying to make it better and to trying to do good science. Also, the other important thing to get the this kind of equipment here in the area is that you can do better teaching, right. So because we do research also, but we, we also teach. So uh, what, what we are doing is basically to, to bring the small group of students to, you know, to show them what is the confocal microscope to, you know, for them to know how it work. And also also to, to promote science in undergrad students, um, because Talca is surrounded by rural areas. The kind of students that we get here, they are also from the countryside, right? So you are also showing a people from the countryside, like other ways to do science, other ways to collaborate, and that you can get equipment that are super high technology. And this has an impact in the student. And that is incredible. Like one of my students, for instance, was in the state. Now he's just come back. And for him, he was the first of his of his family to travel outside of Chile. Some of them they don't even know. Santiago. You can provoke very big changes in people, in students. I have been lucky in this regard because I got very smart students and very hard worker students. And this is beautiful, I think because you are contributing to a way to to value science and to show somehow the world to. to win the prize. It was to show. Look what we can do with this kind of technology, you know. So we need to invest more in these kind of things. So the rector of my university was very proud. So overall, it was a very positive thing in the way of to promote science in cities that are not Santiago and to, to show how important is to have high technology to do good research. Yeah, definitely. I'm glad that you got all the recognition with this. One day I received a call from a big newspaper in Chile, and they were like a journalist, like, oh, you won a prize. And I'm like, it cannot be true because it's a newspaper of how do you say gossiping newspaper that time to time they have science and technology. And I'm like, that cannot be. And the guys here. Yeah. Can I have an interview with you? And I'm like, yeah, fine, no problem. But then it was so weird. And then the next day I was in the like in the national newspaper. My mom was super proud. My family was super proud. The university was like, you know, on fire with this. So overall, it was a very good experience. I hope you framed the article. Yeah. And yeah, actually, my mom bought I don't know how many newspaper I will show you like. It was very it was very funny, I need to say. So we're looking forward to seeing more images coming from your lab and from your student in the upcoming, uh, repro bio art contest for SSR. Definitely. And to convince authorities and the rest of the universities that we just need a little bit of money to do awesome science. Yeah. So both of you started attending SSR with a bang. So the award, I hope that we're going to see you again at SSR meeting in the future. Let's hope so. All right. Thank you both for responding to to this interview. And thank you for listening. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you.