Moral Injury Support Network Podcast
Join us as we embark on a powerful journey, exploring the often-unspoken challenges faced by servicewomen and the moral injuries they endure in the line of duty.
Moral Injury Support Network for Servicewomen, Inc. (MISNS) is a dedicated non-profit organization on a mission to bring together healthcare practitioners, experts, and advocates to raise awareness about moral injury among servicewomen. Our podcast serves as a platform for servicewomen and those who support them to share their stories, experiences, and insights into the profound impact of moral injury.
In each episode, we'll engage in heartfelt conversations with servicewomen, mental health professionals, military leaders, and individuals who have witnessed the toll of moral injury firsthand. Through their stories, we aim to shed light on the unique struggles faced by servicewomen and the transformative journey towards healing and resilience.
Discover the complexities of moral injury within the military context, exploring the ethical dilemmas, moral conflicts, and the deep emotional wounds that servicewomen may encounter. Gain a deeper understanding of the societal, cultural, and systemic factors that contribute to moral distress within the military community.
Our podcast serves as a safe space for servicewomen to share their experiences, find support, and foster a sense of community. We also aim to equip healthcare practitioners with the knowledge and tools to recognize, address, and support those affected by moral injury. Join us as we explore evidence-based interventions, therapeutic approaches, and self-care practices designed to promote healing and well-being.
MISNS invites you to be a part of a movement that seeks to create a more compassionate and supportive environment for servicewomen. By amplifying their voices and promoting understanding, we strive to foster positive change within the military and healthcare systems.
Whether you are a servicewoman, a healthcare professional, a veteran, or simply passionate about supporting those who have served, this podcast offers valuable insights and perspectives. Together, let's forge a path towards healing, resilience, and empowerment.
Subscribe to Moral Injury Support Network Podcast today and join us in honoring the sacrifices of servicewomen while working towards a future where their well-being and resilience are at the forefront of our collective consciousness.
Moral Injury Support Network Podcast
From Service to Support: A Millennial Veteran's Mission
When Jenna Carlton left the Navy in 2017 after serving as an aerographer's mate, she faced a question that would fuel her mission: "Where are all the younger veterans?" This powerful conversation reveals how she's addressing that gap through community building and targeted resources.
Fresh from her military experience, Jenna shares candidly about the realities women face in service—sexualization, harassment, and the personality shifts many adopt for self-protection. Her journey took her to Capitol Hill, where she hoped to influence veteran policy, only to discover that grassroots community building would be her most effective path forward. Now running the Millennial Veterans Facebook group and the South Jersey Women Veterans Group, she creates safe spaces where veterans can discuss benefits, mental health, relationships, and the complex transition to civilian identity.
Perhaps most striking is Jenna's insight into why younger veterans—particularly women—aren't accessing available resources. Despite significant improvements in VA services, veterans under 30 remain largely absent from these systems. Many don't feel entitled to benefits if they served shorter terms or didn't deploy, while others have internalized negative perceptions about VA care. This disengagement is especially concerning considering veterans aged 18-35 have the highest suicide rates among all veteran age groups.
Through her Veteran Workbook, Jenna provides a practical tool for processing military experiences and rebuilding civilian identity. The workbook asks questions that civilians wouldn't think to ask, helping veterans articulate their needs and experiences while planning for meaningful futures beyond service.
Ready to connect with resources tailored for younger veterans? Follow Jenna on Instagram @themillennialveteran, http://facebook.com/groups/themillennialveterans, or find her Veteran Workbook on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/Veteran-Workbook-Jenna-Carlton/dp/B0C6W1GB96 to start your journey toward post-military wellness and community.
Help Moral Injury Support Network for Servicewomen, Inc. provide the support it needs to women veterans by donating to our cause at: https://misns.org/donation or send a check or money order to Moral Injury Support Network, 136 Sunset Drive, Robbins, NC 27325. Every amount helps and we are so grateful for your loving support. Thanks!
Follow us on your favorite social channels: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/moral-injury-support-network-for-servicewomen/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dr.danielroberts
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/misnsconsult/
Hi, dr Daniel Roberts, president and CEO of Moral Injury Support Network for Servicewomen Incorporated. Welcome to the Moral Injury Support Network podcast. Today we have a special guest, jenna Carlton, a millennial veteran. She is a Navy veteran who served as an aerographer's mate from 2013 to 2017.
Speaker 1:After getting out, she went to school and did an internship at the House Committee on Veterans Affairs, hoping to make an impact on the veteran community. She soon found out that policy may not be the best route in her efforts of helping other veterans. Soon after she started a Facebook support group, the Millennial Veterans, with two of her friends in 2020 to reach out to younger veterans in the hopes of creating a community. Their goal is to get younger veterans involved and aware of their resources Through inspiration. With many conversations with veterans, jenna published the Veteran Workbook. This journal style book puts the pin in the hand of the veteran to reflect on service, recreate structure plan for the future and rediscover their new identity without the military. She currently runs the South Jersey Women Veterans Group, sponsored by Operation Second Chance. Welcome to the podcast, jenna. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. Dr Roberts, thank you so much for having me. So you were in the Navy. What is an aerographer's mate? So it's pronounced aerographer's mate. Okay, okay, but yeah, a lot of people say it like that because that's how it looks. But we did meteorology and oceanography. So I was on an aircraft carrier and we would uh tell pilots the flight levels, the wind levels um the sea heights, to the captain what's the best direction to go, and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Temperatures, all that barometer readings yeah, so you spent a lot of, a lot, lot of time, I'm guessing on the on a carrier right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's a lot of time there and I got to be on the Island part, which is the top part, because we needed to see outside and I got. I got to go outside a lot of times.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Um so tell us about your Navy experience in general. As a woman in the Navy on a ship a lot. How was that experience for you?
Speaker 2:Kind of intimidating being a woman in the Navy because there's not a lot of other women around it's about 30% women but I just made the best of it. There were some great times visiting overseas and some hard times as well. You see a lot of pain in the military too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, talk to me about that part.
Speaker 2:Yes, as I got close to people, you know you'd spend a lot of downtime or just late nights on watch and I'm always really curious about people and where they come from, their families and their culture and I noticed a lot of people had a lot of childhood like not the best childhoods. They joined to escape things or they didn't have better opportunities and you know like some people were inner city kids or came from broken homes or adopted. So I always thought that was really interesting and I love learning about different cultures that people came from and how they ended up in the military or it was a part of their family's tradition.
Speaker 1:Right, so is the military part of your family background, your family tradition.
Speaker 2:Yes, I had some uncles who served, my grandpa served and that my uncle kind of planted a seed in my head to say, yeah, joining would be great for you. It'd be great for you to see the world if you're not ready for college. But my parents did not, so it was really a new world to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and yeah. So we find the vast majority of people who joined the military, you know, were encouraged by, or at least had someone in their family that served. Whereas overall did they encourage you? You, um many uh is especially women. A lot of the the older school uh family, maybe from vietnam or back, said hey, that's not a place for a woman. Did you get any challenges like that, um, from from family when you joined?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, my mom was so worried. My grandma, bless her heart, she's no longer with us, but she dug up my uncle's old uniforms and threw them on my bed and said this is what you'll be wearing. You always had such a nice style. She was not happy with my decision to join, but my dad just said you have my blessing, and I think they both agreed later on that it was a good choice for me. It gave me a lot of things and opportunities that I probably wouldn't have had in the small town of Wisconsin where I'm from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So in terms of your actual experience in the Navy, you know so many women have experienced, you know some real difficulties in terms of harassment and so on, from their own, from their own, you know fellow service members or whatever. Is that something you've experienced too?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. I saw it right away, probably when I was in a school, which is the training school is where I felt it the most. Coming right out of boot camp, I had gained a lot of weight and I was kind of insecure about my body and I felt like everywhere I went I was being sexualized or my body was being commented on, and you would just hear the way people talked about other women and it just made you really insecure about how you are being talked about as well.
Speaker 1:How were you able to cope with that or work through that? Deal with that?
Speaker 2:I really started drinking a lot, which had been a coping mechanism for me and it probably wasn't a good one, but it's. You know, drinking helps anxiety temporarily. So it's something that I went to and just being very conscious of what I was wearing all the time and just, yeah, being kind of scared to be too much or, you know, not to be flirty, and that was hard for me because I'm a really bubbly person or I was and I'm a really jokey person, but it was just perceived the wrong way and I felt like I had a target on me for being like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an experience a lot of women have talked to me about. It's just, you know, it becomes a complete personality change from bubbly, effervescent, you know people might say it's flirty but in reality just being energetic and engaging people and you know who doesn't love to talk to someone with a smile and who makes you feel good and stuff. But often in society that gets couched as, oh, she's flirty and it's sexualized and all this stuff. And then, and so they've had this complete personality change of of changing what they wear, how they act, the whole thing. And the problem is, a lot of times that doesn't necessarily solve the problem, right, because, um, people that are, um, really seeking that sexual gratification or whatever, they're going to look for it anyway, almost, but it feels like so. But did that change stay with you throughout the rest of your service, or how? How did you? Did you adjust later? Or what happened?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it's still with me today to just be very conscious around men, uh, in general, especially when I go out in public and I know I'm by myself and just just watching how I am. But I think after, like there was even a point where I just didn't care anymore and, you know, would almost rebel against it With like drinking and stuff and you know, finding like really close friends in the Navy, like that were girls or you know, I'd hang out with the gay, the gays too, just you know, cause I felt safe around them. That was, I would never go out with no anybody else for a Liberty buddy in port. And you know, once I had like my little group. I felt really protected and felt like I could do whatever I wanted.
Speaker 1:Yep, did, did Yep? Did that surprise you? Like, when you came in the Navy did you have any expectation or sense that that might happen, that the sexualization might happen, or did it take you by surprise really?
Speaker 2:It took me by surprise. I was very naive when I joined uh right out of high school it was I don't, I don't know I thought. I thought it would be very professional. I had a friend who had already joined and he would just send me pictures. He was like the star of his uh division or whatever. And it was like very professional. I thought I'd be taken seriously and I'd have more opportunities for leadership. And then I slowly started seeing what you needed to do to be in leadership, which was really would have compromised a lot of my values of friendship and being honest and so on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can you talk about that more?
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah. So in bootcamp, right away, I was put as the master at arms, which is kind of like the police officer of the division, and I failed at it horribly because I could not yell at people for no reason and that's what you needed to do to keep people in line. And I just something in me, I was like I don't want to do this. I didn't like being in that position, also maybe because I'm a people pleaser and I didn't want to have people mad at me, especially in such a new place and then moving, so on every leader I had I saw I didn't really like the way they carried themselves, or they they would punish one person or they'd punish everybody on account of one person, sort of thing. I saw a lot of leaders take advantage of younger female sailors and almost coerce them or, you know, use their position like, use their power in wrong ways.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's. It's certainly sad that in the four years you served you didn't have some good leader models to look up to, or did you Were there any good leaders that you had during that time?
Speaker 2:There was people that I could talk to and I felt like you know, like I had like maybe one or two people that would give me honest advice, especially when it came to wanting to get out or stay in. But everyone else was kind of like especially people in my chain of command were kind of like you're making the wrong decision. Made me talk with him because I was going to get out and be a flight attendant and he I had to go talk to him because his wife was a flight attendant and he told me about how hard it was and that she hated doing it and now she's a stay at home mom or something. It was just like the whole world was against me. Any idea I had about what I wanted to do when I got out was just shut down or it was made stupid.
Speaker 1:So did you? Were these kind of things, you experienced the reason that you got out, or or were they major contributors for why you didn't stay in?
Speaker 2:I didn't think I would be successful staying in if I was going to reenlist I would have to go back to school for a while to be a forecaster for weather and I didn't think I'd be supported educationally. I thought I would continue drinking a lot if I was put in the kind of like school setting again.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I really didn't have any female leaders that I looked up to, that I thought, oh, I want to be like her, you know, I want to be like this chief. And yeah, I just couldn't. I couldn't see myself being happy and successful, staying in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ok, no-transcript fosters that as an idea in people. You know the recruiting slogans and all that would all make you believe that's true. But then you get. You get there and you find a totally different environment that you didn't expect and one that you know it's quite difficult to navigate and understand Cause, like you said, you don't have mentors, you don't have people to look up to, and that's been the experience of a lot of women. My experience as a man was quite different, but there's no reason why it should be different for men and women. It should be the same kind of experience mentorship, leadership examples, so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So you left in 2017 and you went to do an internship at the House Committee on Veterans Affairs. What were you? It mentioned in your bio you're hoping to make an impact. What were you really? What were you looking to do? What? What was an impact? In what way did you? Do you have a sense of that?
Speaker 2:yes, so my college experience there. I wasn't around any veterans at all and I often wondered where are younger veterans, and I felt like I had so much to share with. You know, capitol Hill. I didn't even really know what I was getting into. I really thought like, oh, they're going to ask me questions on how they should run the VA. I was very naive and then when I got there, I realized, you know, I'm really going to just be answering calls and, at most, doing some research, which was still a very good learning experience. However, it wasn't the impact I thought I was going to make.
Speaker 1:So if you could do anything with the veteran community right now, if you could make any change with the veteran community, the impact that you're looking to be, what would that be?
Speaker 2:I would love to bring more younger veterans in and show them that first they belong here. No matter how long you served, there are benefits and resources for you and by accessing them, you're actually making yourself better and making society better as a whole. I'd like to just bridge that gap because, with mentors and, you know, finding that support in the veteran community, I feel like I've gained so much knowledge from women veterans. And, yeah, help women veterans get involved as well and make them feel safe in the veteran community, whether that's through women all groups or just doing activities that they like, because so many of our resources are found out about word of mouth and that can't happen if you're at home by yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are some of the? You know you have a Facebook group, quite a few members. What are some of the issues or things that are being regularly discussed in the group?
Speaker 2:active are benefits, accessing the GI Bill, questions about VR&E, a lot of questions about employment lately, where they can find a job or how to do their resume help, a lot of VA loan questions. So again, a lot of resource questions. But then we have a mental health chat, which a lot of people reach out about, just you know, wondering if anyone else feels this when they first got out, do you feel lonely, do you feel isolated, sort of thing, and just asking that support. And we also have a relationships chat, because I feel like so many of our marriages take a huge toll when we get out or you know, if both members, both partners, have served. There's a lot of questions that come up and and again parenting even as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, OK, that's. That's really interesting. What's interesting to me is the VA puts out a lot of information. Before you get out of the military, you have to go to a number of briefings and stuff, so you would think it would seem like people would know what these are resources and things but apparently they don't. What do you suspect is the cause for the communication gap between the benefits that are available and what people really know about or how to access them?
Speaker 2:I think it's hard and this was definitely my experience and when I talk to people who are about to get out, excuse me, it's hard to um, get them to realize what they're like, what it's actually going to be like when they get out and how it's going to be and what that. What is that kind of feel like?
Speaker 1:excuse me, sorry that's okay um and and really you're getting all these resources at one time and it's hard to imagine using them all yeah, I, I retired last August and you know I had to go through all these briefings and I still, like you said, you're getting so much information at once, um and like. For me, I spent my entire adult life, except for a couple of years of it, in the military and I'm in my fifties now, so so some of the transition was just, um, so some of the transition was just, you know, I was so used to getting up at a certain time of the day, being told what to wear, where to be, when to be, all that, and it's like I don't have any of that now. I do what I want when I want. Don't have any of that now. I do what I want when I want. Um, so where has there been a it? So for me, I I didn't have that hard of a time like adjusting to a schedule, uh, or at least you know, I didn't feel like, oh, I have to be somewhere. I was happily able to say, each morning, get up and say I don't have to go to PT, I don't have to put on a uniform, all that.
Speaker 1:But what I did miss a lot was just the camaraderie ship or the, you know, seeing people every day that I worked with and chatting with them and stuff. So it took me a little while to to adjust to that. I work from home but you know, on days where it's like, oh, I have a meeting in Greensboro or a meeting in Fayetteville, it's like good, I get to get out of the house, travel, meet some new people. You know it's really good, um, given your. So I have a couple of questions here related to that. So, given your experience, um and there may be, and others with your experience, um, did you have that same sense of like missing the camaraderie ship? Or was it because it wasn't really there, that it wasn't an issue for you, or? You know what I'm getting at.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I definitely miss a lot of that support or just the BS in daily, you know, talking about new shows or something, because I moved out of state. I moved from Norfolk up to Maryland right away and, yeah, I didn't have any friends. So I miss that a lot. And I lived with my friends that I worked. I lived with some of the friends I worked with so I literally saw them 24-7. So it was a huge adjustment. It was hard.
Speaker 1:And I think there are a lot of women that I know. There are a lot of women that are isolating, but that's, in general, not good for people's mental health. Um, have you been able to, to help, help, you know the folks that you're talking to break through some of that and and re-engage with society, with other people, a little bit, or are they still finding that very challenging?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that's going to be a constant issue. Excuse me, with people getting out, and women might have it a little more because of, you know, whether they have kids. It's harder to get out. Uh, they're the main primary caretaker of the children. In most circumstances. It's harder for them to get out.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, even just being conscious about your body, like your body changes, it can change when you get out. If you're not working out as much, you're on a different sort of diet. You know you don't have to make those p standards, so you might just be conscious about yourself and not want to leave the house, or you've experienced trauma and you don't want to be around other people. It's safer by yourself and I don't think that's ever going to change with leaving the military. I think it's probably always been like that. But something that I've seen that helps women is having this women's group, just knowing it'll just be women there. We're going to be doing an activity like crafting or just grabbing a coffee. I think that attracts people that wouldn't normally come to events and also saying, like, you can bring your kids, that's not a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's really good, I think. I think you're right on a lot of that that veterans tend to isolate for a lot of different reasons. Sometimes it's just relatability. I mean, if you leave the military and move away from a military community, um, you know around people that never served. They just they don't know what it's like. And if you've been deployed, you've experienced some stuff there. What are you going to talk about, you know? So it can be really difficult and if you've suffered trauma, you're not gonna most people aren't gonna share their trauma with other people um is a lot of guilt and shame involved. Even if it wasn't their fault, people still tend to carry this guilt, um and definitely shame, and that's just not something you're going to be normally willing to share. But it sounds like with the groups, you're doing both the Facebook community and it sounds like you're doing some in-person groups right in that area.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, the in-person group is just with women veterans and that's sponsored by operation second chance, which is a nonprofit.
Speaker 1:Okay, tell me about the veteran workbook how you put that together, what's in it, how people can get it.
Speaker 2:So, like you just mentioned it's, you feel like you can't relate to people when you get out. So this, this workbook, asks you the questions that other people wouldn't think of unless they've served, or even if they did serve, they wouldn't think to really ask you these sort of things. To help you reflect on service, decide what you want to bring to civilian life with you, like certain habits, what you want to leave behind the bad habits, how you want to recreate that structure. Like you said, you were used to getting up at a certain time. Do you want to just sleep until you want, or maybe create your own structure you don't have to be as rigid as you were in the military and how to think about yourself. You're going to be picking out your own clothes. What's your style?
Speaker 2:I think we all kind of go through a weird phase when we get out of, like I don't know what to wear. You know, maybe things fit different now, and especially like the hair. You know guys, I see them grow the beard, I see yours. So it kind of asks you like, how do you want to present yourself to the world in different ways and what are you excited about your future? You know you got out for a reason, whether it was your choice or not. What do you want to? How can you make the best for your future?
Speaker 1:and where can people get the workbook from?
Speaker 2:So it's on Amazon. I've been trying to make it searchable on Amazon, but it has not been so. If you type in the veteran workbook Jenna Carlton, it should pop up. Or if you search authors or under books, it will pop up. Or you can see it on my Instagram bio at the millennial veteran.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, in the, in the notes for this episode, we'll put um the links to your book, um your Instagram and all that. Whatever you give to me, we'll make sure that's in the notes so people can click on it and buy it. Um operation, second chance what's that about?
Speaker 2:So they are out of Maryland and they started with taking people out of Walter Reed veterans who are rehabilitating and bringing them out to her name's Cindy McGrew bringing them out to she has a few acres of land just to get them out of the city, out of the hospitals and show them the countryside, get them around nature. And she started developing her nonprofit more towards women veterans now and we have a few groups around the country. I was a part of the one in Maryland and then, when I moved to New Jersey, I started one here and it is just to reach women veterans and um, help them get out of their houses, reconnect with themselves and with other women veterans.
Speaker 1:Okay, um, what are? What are some of the? What are some of the goals that you have? Um, for for what you're trying to accomplish, for for your organization, as well as yourself, maybe?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just trying to get the word out there about younger veterans struggling and, you know, being less likely to go to the VA, while having the highest suicide rates among all the ages are 18 to 35 for veterans. So just trying to highlight them and reach them they're also hard to reach and make sure that they're getting the care they need and being accepted into the wider veteran community as well. As women veterans. I just was talking to someone today and they were out in California and they said that their VA in Palo Alto has no women veterans, patients under 30. So I was just like, wow, you know they're. They're really not choosing to use the VA and the VA has made leaps and bounds when it comes to women, women's care. You know we have a women's health clinic in Philadelphia, so they really are making it, making changes. We need the women to show up so they can keep making those changes the women to show up so they can keep making those changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's good. Most of the women veterans I talk to tend to be over 30. I wonder if younger women see the VA as I don't know how to say it, it's almost like it. Maybe it makes them feel older just to think about using the VA. Like maybe the VA in their mind is is for older people or whatever you know, like an AARP thing or something. Maybe maybe younger veterans think, hey, I can do it on my own. I can you know, I don't need the benefits or the help or whatever. I'm not sure any insight into that at all.
Speaker 2:or yes, yeah, I. I think a lot of. There's been a lot of bad stories coming out about the VA and maybe even even I've had a few bad interactions at the VA with with caretakers is also just seeing the behavior of some of the other patients that it is intimidating as a woman to see that. So maybe they've just heard these stories and don't want to go. And also a lot of women veterans don't feel like they're entitled to go to the VA and don't want to use those benefits because maybe they didn't deploy, Maybe they're like me and just did four years and got out, and so they don't even realize that they still can go to the VA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good point. So you have a lot of work to do, educating, and I think it's really important and, as you mentioned, the VA needs their input too, and all the veteran organizations need input from the younger generation of veterans. I think it's when I talk to young veterans like yourself we're younger. I don't know how old you are, but you're they're still having the same experiences in the military that the older veterans were having as far as women goes same harassment, minimization, all this stuff, and so it's like the military's doing a lot of narrative painting. You know they're. They're doing a lot of uh, public, you know, recruiting slogans about stuff, but in reality the culture doesn't seem to be changing much. So um, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm 30 and a lot of you know, some of the women in my group are older and they're just starting to realize what they went through. You know, they don't even think about it. It was just so normalized back then. Uh, that's how men will be men. And now that they're getting older or maybe you know, seeing how culture has been shifting they're kind of realizing like, wow, I did go through harassment and you know I still carry that with me today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I applaud the work you're doing and I'm glad that we were able to link up and do this podcast. I'm glad that we were able to link up and do this podcast. I'm certainly. As far as my organization, moral Injury Support Network, we do anything, we're happy to do, anything we can do to help get the word out or help educate younger people, help promote your book and other things the different Facebook groups. So make sure we have all that information so we can get it out to put out to people. But it was great having you on the show, jenna, and I look forward to continuing to talk in the future about some ways we might work together.
Speaker 2:So yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. I really appreciate this.
Speaker 1:Thanks Okay, folks, till next time. Have a good one.
