Ep 39: Delivering Freedom with George Kinder, the Father of Life Planning

George Kinder is an international thought-leader, author, mindfulness teacher, and the Father of the Life Planning movement. He has revolutionized financial advice for more than 35 years by training 4000 professionals in 30 countries in the field of Financial Life Planning.  

In part 1 of this profound 2-part conversation, George and I discuss:

• What struggles do financial professionals and physicians share in finding professional fulfillment.
• How to efficiently deliver freedom to an individual through life planning.
• What physician burnout looks like from a patient's point of view.
• Why physicians cannot wait to re-connect with their purpose.

Tune in to hear an inspiring conversation between a renowned international thought-leader and a Dare to Dream Physician on how to help physicians start living meaningful and fulfilling lives.

Dare to Dream Physician Resources:

Dare to Dream Physician, Life Planning for Physicians

 https://daretodreamphysician.com

Dare to Dream Physician on Facebook

 https://www.facebook.com/daretodreamphysician/

DreamPhysician on Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/dreamphysician/

 
George Kinder and Life Planning Resources:

George Kinder's Website: www.georgekinder.com

Twitter: @GeorgeDKinder
LinkedIn: @George D. Kinder - https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-d-kinder-0749196/
Instagram: @george_kinder
Facebook: @GeorgeDKinder

Kinder Institute of Life Planning Website: www.kinderinstitute.com
Twitter: @KinderInstitute
LinkedIn: @KinderInstituteofLifePlanning - https://www.linkedin.com/company/843302/
Instagram: @KinderInstitute
Facebook: @kinderlifeplanning

Transcript

Dr. Gray, Host 0:01

Welcome back to another episode of the dare to dream physician podcast. I'm so excited. You're joining us today. I have a very special once in a lifetime guest and I can't wait to introduce him. I have to say that he is the reason why I have this podcast today. It all started with attending a life planning workshop for me, which has led to so much personal transformation. I know, share a little bit about that later in the episode, but first. Let me address. George kinder george is an amazing human being he's recognized as the father of light planning. He's revolution. Financial advice, a whole industry for more than 35 years by training, over 4,000 professionals and 30 countries and the field of financial life planning. He founded the kinder Institute of life planning in 2003, after 30 years as a practicing financial planner and tax advisor, George has a very interesting background, which I believe is the secret to his success. He was educated at Harvard majored in English and minor in economics. He went into pursue some creative ventures after graduating from college, but then faced the reality of what a lot of artists and writers face, which is being able to pay the bills. So he tapped into another skill that he's brilliant at, which is mathematics. so he became a certified public accountant and later a certified financial planner. And the financial planning industry is so fortunate to have George. George was the first winner of the financial planning associations, heart of financial planning award, which recognizes individuals who demonstrate commitment and passion in doing extraordinary work to contribute or give back to the financial planning community and, or the public. He has also been named one of the top icons and innovators in the financial planning industry, the first of 15 transformational advisors whose vision most changed the industry and has been inducted into the financial planning magazine hall of fame. He has appeared on many radio and television programs. His expertise has been featured in print media, such as the financial times, the wall street journal, Forbes time magazine and the New York times. George is a keynote speaker and has given speeches at professional conferences on five countries. As an author, George has published seven books. He has three books on money, the seven stages of money, maturity lighting, the torch and life planning for you, which are considered by many to be the Seminole works the field of financial life planning and his book, a golden civilization, and the map of mindfulness. George draws on 50 years as a mindfulness practitioner, over 30 years as a mindfulness teacher and his experience training financial advisors globally to challenge the basic concepts of economics, our understanding of democracy, of space, time, and our own hearts, Georges to bring greater levels of freedom everywhere. He has. Meditative books with arts and poetry. And the latest one called reflections on spectacle pond is a meditative guide to living in nature cycles week by week. And moment by moment, I could go on and on I have so many more great things to say, But I better give him a chance to speak. Welcome to the podcast, George. I'm so grateful to have you here.

George Kinder, Guest 3:26

Well, I'm thrilled, Wally, as I've shared with you privately, I've wanted to have this linkage with, physicians for many years, because I feel that. the best of the financial advisory profession. And there's a lot of'em out there, are really aligned with physicians in that they think of themselves as caring professionals, as caregivers, really as counselors and in many ways and as healers and, and these financial. Advisors find themselves in an industry that is dominated by product sales, and by large companies forcing the way the interviews are supposed to happen and how they're supposed to serve clients. So there's a lot of overlap and, anyway, I've just been very excited. that we're having this conversation.

Dr. Gray, Host 4:16

I don't usually like to talk about myself in the podcast, but I got to start with this story, George which is, how I found you and I, it's not really a story that I've really shared publicly. It's it's a little bit, Vulnerable, I think, but about a year ago, I was really discouraged, working as a physician, even though there are so many things about it that I love and, I was very clear on. How this is a calling for me, when I applied for medical school and, went through my training and I was, I spent 10 years of my life, training to be a physician and then five years into my practice. I actually was, I felt so much pain and I didn't even recognize at the time, but I was just looking for an escape for medicine. And I know I'm not alone and feeling that way because, the statistics show, 40% of physicians are burned out and I actually was thinking, well, what else can I do? You know, I'm only 40 years old. I think. but I have, well, first I have to make a living. And second, I can't just retire. Like I got too many things that I, I want to contribute in society than just retire at that age. And I actually thought, well, maybe, what else am I good at? and one thing that I actually, along with training to be a physician, I actually learned how to manage my own money. So. Well, maybe I can help people by being a financial planner. And then I thought, well, but I don't want to just be any financial planner. I want to be a financial planner. Who's going to be honest and authentic and who can really maybe even help people transform their lives through, through, through that relationship. That's how I found the kinder institutes, through that research. And it wasn't, it was maybe like a couple of weeks past when I learned about, about the kinder Institute. When I signed up for that workshop, I took a chance. Cause I thought, what am I even doing? I don't, but I was so fascinated by life planning that I, I signed up. And I love everything that I learned. I there was so many, so many things that even as a physician, you know, like the mindfulness and the active listening, I do that naturally in some way, but not to the extent that you and the Institute teaches. So I learned a lot as a human being, by being there, but also I got life planning and. Yeah, it probably was a 20 minutes session, that was a demonstration in front of everybody. And I, it just, it changed my life. and in fact, I shared with you that, I went from wanting to escape medicine and just looking for what else can I do to realizing that I don't want to leave medicine. I love what I do as a doctor. And I was looking at financial planning cause I thought a lot of the things I loved about being a doctor I could do and financial planning. But it just gave me that clarity. no, this is what I want to do with my life. And I'm not leaving medicine. I'm going to stay in medicine. I'm going to see if I can change it. but it just, it helped me tune out the noise of the things that I was suffering from. And it was just so empowering. So I'm so appreciative that. And of course, dare to dream physician. I founded this business to bring life planning to physicians, because I think it's so important as physicians, as a group, we're going through an identity crisis. when we signed up to be physicians, we have this calling to serve humanity, to serve our patients. And we don't necessarily feel supported in that. And it's we almost forget along the way, because there's so many other struggles. And I think we will all better serve society and better serve ourselves. If we become really clear on why we're doing.

George Kinder, Guest 7:51

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. What a beautiful story. A, and it echoes so much the stories within my profession as well. where, I was stunned. I did not realize how powerful the passion was in the financial profession what we realized in the financial industry, this was 20 or 30 years ago when I first began to talk. to the industry and gather a community of like-minded people around me. And these were leaders. This is not just, unusual people within the industry. These were the leaders of the industry who said w when we're with our clients, our client is number one. And what we want to do is deliver the client into the life. What to live that life of their dreams and that's the purpose of money, but we don't know how to do it. George, what we've been trained in is products and spreadsheets and tax laws and all the rest. How do we actually listen so well that we can discover. And formed that great relationship with the client so that we can actually discover what their dream of freedom is and apply what our great knowledge is, which is the architecture of money to, what they really want to do with their life. So what we have in common, the best of the financial world, and certainly the best of the physicians is. W we want to serve the client. And the question is how do we best do that? One of the things we discovered is what you went through with your workshop, which is that, physician heal thyself, as they say, you, you've got to, you can't deliver a client into their dream of you. Unless you've figured out what yours is and are living a life of integrity and authenticity around your own, who you are, who you really are and it's that, that, that's what I think of. I love physicians. I, I think that's probably true for many of us, we, because we know that we're cared for. And, it's that. Caring quality that we want. We wanted to, find a way of facilitating in the life planning world. So I created a whole system for doing that a system of training, which you then went through. It's largely a system of listening and inspirational listening so that we catch who the client really is, and then deliver them. this notion of living it yourself. that's really a profound thing. And it's where I think it it intrigues me. It's always intrigued me about physicians. How do we get the body of physicians? So live in a profoundly healthy way themselves, not merely around the products and what they've been learned about the body and all of that, but around their purpose in life, around meaning, because that's really where the greatest authenticity and the greatest health. So at least that's my experience and, and what I would say. So, so it's really exciting to be here with you, Wally and wonderful to hear your, your experience described.

Dr. Gray, Host 10:51

Yes, I love it. And I. Love the statement that it's been credited to you, which is life planning is the most efficient method of delivering freedom to an individual. And, as someone who experienced life planning almost accidentally, I can attest to how that is so true, but I would love for you to explain that, and in my podcast, attempted to explain what life planning is and I actually have an episode just on the three questions and, like you said, it's an experiential process and I've attempted to explain some of it, but I'm just so fascinated by how do we deliver freedom to an individually?

George Kinder, Guest 11:34

Fantastic. and mindfulness plays a role in it as well. The process is really extremely simple and it starts with a great listening. So you listen well enough to the client or your patient as you define them, that, that they really unraveled. They opened themselves. And they share who they really are with their hopes and dreams are what their fears are with our anxieties are. And so they're opening who they really are to you. And in that process of them feeling that they can trust you, both with the things they're anxious about and upset around and the things that they're excited and aspirational. When they feel they can share that range, then they really open up with you and share who they really are, who they really want to be. And that's, and we do the three questions. So you've got an exercise. You've got a podcast go to the podcast and listen to Whaley on the three questions. Another way of framing this in addition to the three questions, which takes you very deep into what is most profound, what will really. Bring you alive. And, another way of doing this in a more pragmatic and practical way is something I call ideal day, ideal week, ideal year, and, you know, go at it. And here you are. As physicians stock working with, a big firm or whatever, maybe it's an HTML. Maybe it's a hospital who knows maybe multiple different, different ways of working. Is it really the ideal system for you? you want to be a physician, you want to be a healer. you want to have that relationship with clients is the way it's structured ideal for you. And what I do is I suggest people look at what is your ideal day look like? What is the ideal week and what is your ideal year? And then let's say, Let's see if we can do it. And particularly for someone like a financial advisor, like a physician, we've got more power than we realize because we, we have these skills that people want and are willing to pay for. And particularly if we can band together with other like-minded, physicians or like-minded financial advisors, we can begin to create a conversation. Around is this really the best way to deliver medicine or the best way to deliver financial advice? So, so the, it is the most efficient way to deliver freedom because we listen, we deliver that trust. And then we go through a process through the three questions through the ideals to discover what would just be so incredibly exciting for. That they couldn't possibly say no to it. If you presented it to them and say, how about we do this? How about we make this. And that's what happens. We call it a moment. We call it lighting the torch, where we present them. This gift of let's, what if we were to do this, how would that be for you? And the client gets so excited. And so they're adding all this energy by that excitement. And we've already figured out that we can get pretty close to it. We know we're going to be able to add a lot more freedom to their life than they've ever anticipated. Having. Before sometimes it's with little tweaks, sometimes it's with promises over a year or two, but it's something that happens within a relatively short period of time for everyone who goes through the life planning process. So, that's something that I think physicians are eminently, ready for. As individuals and as a community, to do that and to redesign, rethink, how is it that we really want to live with as physicians and be caring for our clients. And, as I said to you as well, Wally, I think it's something that we made actually. forum linkages around because my hunch is that many professional firms of many kinds feel this kind of blockage from the institutionalization or corporatization of our processes of our products, of our, Approach one of our markets. So, so it is the most efficient way of delivering freedom because we designed something that is so inspired to the client. They can't say no to it. And so, and so the client just moves directly toward it.

Dr. Gray, Host 15:53

That's that's amazing. this is something that's been on my mind. And, and I told you, it was as part of my life plan, which is that physician, patient relationship, that connection that we have, that's really was the reason why I went into medicine and, in our current practice climate it's not always easy to stay authentic to that desire. And, um, what I love about what you did for your profession financial planning is that you brought up this piece, you call it life planning, but it's, it's, it is that connection. It's that act, inspirational listening. You brought that as the product. And, and I think that, in your industry and healthcare now, it is about numbers and systemizing processes. And what I love about what you did in your profession. Hey, you know what? This is what people want. This is what the clients want. And they want that trust. They want that connection. And so make this the product, make this the front and center of what we deliver. And, I think that's why the financial planners who have gone through your process and who, incorporated life planning into their. Financial planning firms have been so incredibly successful. Their numbers really beat their competitors numbers out of the water and, their conversion rates and just their retention rates. And I would love to see, a similar process happen in medicine where, we don't lose track of the most important thing, which is what's human about being a patient. And what's human about being a physician.

George Kinder, Guest 17:34

Yeah, how wonderful Whaley. I, oh boy, I would come in a moment to affirm that, of, physicians that had that as their primary thing, where they really knew it, they embodied it and the, their patients knew it as well. In fact, one of the, I have several medical stories I want to share around life planning, but one of the things that I did five or six years ago was I. Changed physicians. I was in an HMO. My physician, I would rate him as an eight or a nine without any question. My original physician eight or a nine on heart and on head on, on brain. Really good man, really good human being. But I sensed, as I met with him, some layer of stress. Of anxiety of something that was getting in the way of him really being there with me. And, and I sensed it so much. And every time I met him, I said, And I knew that there was another person in the HMO that I'd always had a feeling for, who felt more grounded around all of that. Like he was living who he wanted to be. And so I changed and that, that was a funny thing to do because I'm not sure that the first person was ending. Caring or any less in there, a brilliant in their intellectual capacity of understanding medicine, understanding their patient. and I don't, I don't regret it at all. It was it's really now, when I got the finishing touch on this story is I have a, an ailment that, that physicians haven't been able to figure out. But he is a really good human being and really. And we have a conversation. And when I leave that meeting with him every time, regardless of what medicine has given me or whatever, I feel better and I can look at my health over the following months and always, there's some kind of improvement that stuns me. And it's really, I think it's just from having that with them.

Dr. Gray, Host 19:34

Yes.

George Kinder, Guest 19:36

that's the incredible thing about your profession.

Dr. Gray, Host 19:38

That's that is the power of connection and medicine. And this is becoming my own life plan passion, which is to bring that into the public consciousness. But I, I believe it, I mean, it makes so much sense. If a financial planner, when someone goes to, to their office to talk about money and then can leave saying, wow, I'm going to achieve my dream of whatever, whether that's traveling or changing around their day, that, that transformation, that can happen in an exam room. And it has happened exam rooms. In fact that's the placebo effect. people in research, we always talk to, this placebo effect and it's a problem because, why is it that when you just give the sugar pill, the patients get better. You know, we got to account for it, but it's because of the connection it's because of that trust. It's because of that listening. And, and so that hope just by being there with the patient being present and connecting that we give. It's priceless and we can't take that away from the practice of medicine. And so I love that. You are seeing that, socially as a life planner, as a practitioner of mindfulness, that you are also seeing that from the patient.

George Kinder, Guest 20:54

Absolutely. they, there are so many scientific studies now and one of the ones that I love, it's a study about happiness that, shows that happiness is contagious. And what that says to me really is that all virtues are contagious. And so what it means is for a physician or for financial advisor, is that if you can model the patients that your client needs, or the hope that your client needs or the acronymity or the current. Or the kindness or the generosity of spirit or the forgiveness that your client needs, or the authenticity, if you can model that in the meeting that is contagious, the client is going to pick up on that as well as your, your wealth of knowledge about the architecture of medicine and the human body. so yeah, beautiful.

Dr. Gray, Host 21:47

And if I could just go back to that, your first physician in the HMO who you, you felt like. Great person, has the heart, has the brain, and yet was not quite present. I would surmise that. He's probably one of the 40% of physicians in our society right now, who are burnt out, and part of the definition of burned out is, depersonalization. So the opposite of engagement and.

George Kinder, Guest 22:11

Absolutely. I could see it in his eyes and I would have burned out as the thing I would have said the head of the whole HMO. one of their lead physicians asked me if there was a reason why I was leaving this person. And I refuse to say something like that, because I didn't, it just didn't go. But that's what I would have said if I were, if I knew it was just private and all of that, and I felt it would help, help him.

Dr. Gray, Host 22:33

Yeah. And that's my motivation for bringing life planning to physicians is it just, it causes me pain to see brilliant, incredibly kind physicians really start, being burned out, start feeling disengaged. And it's not just for the profession of medicine, but also just for their life. And it, and I was telling you, George, how, physician burnout is an epidemic, but physician suicides are also, high rates. And it's just, when I see. The stories and the faces of just recent physician suicides. It just really hurts me that this is happening, you know, where are our healers are, are in so much pain that don't see any other way, but to, to end their lives. And that is a reflection of our society and it has downstream effects on not just physicians, but on patients as well.

George Kinder, Guest 23:24

Absolutely. And I think the one thing that your listeners would gain from is knowing that a life plan frequently has, qualities, qualitative elements in it. So when it, when someone's life plan, someone designs their life plan, it may have something about the family and something about their workplace and their hours and all of that. But it frequently has things like. I feel like I'm a healer. I want to be more of a healer or I'd love to be more kind in my life. I'd love to not be so rushed. I'd love to be more generous of spirit. Those are part of the life. And when we deliver people into life plans, they feel those qualities just flourishing inside of them. And because that's what we do is we deliver them into what it is that they long for. So those qualities will strengthen, as you live into your life, then.

Dr. Gray, Host 24:20

Wow. That was part one of my interview with George kinder, the father of life planning. I'm so grateful that George agreed to come on the podcast and, George has such a difference in so many people's lives and I can't wait to share part two with you. That's going to be next week's episode. So please stay tuned. And I also want to shout out, Today, I gave a virtual talk of the white coat investor conference, which was an amazing experience. My talk of course, was on life planning and I had such a fun time engaging with the attendees during my talk in the chat. They asked so many great questions. I hope some of you guys were able to find my podcasts I'm thrilled that you are here and please make yourself at home. There are so many gems. I personally have learned so much interviewing the guests on my podcasts. including this interview with George. I hope you'll subscribe and stay tuned to next week's episode. If you have any questions or any interest in getting life planning, please contact me. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram and Facebook. You can also contact me through my website dear judging, physician.com. All of this is in the show notes every week. I hope this week's episode inspires all of you to first create your life plan.