Second-Hand High
Welcome to Second-Hand High, where feel-good stories go to thrive. While walking the dog around our apartment, I was hit by a cloud of pot smoke. I wondered... is a contact high real? Spoiler alert: yes. It also made me think of the happy feels we get when we witness someone doing a good deed to make the world better and brighter-- a feel-good high of a different kind.
Now, I'm ready to hear about the times other people inspired you, whether it changed you profoundly, or simply left you feeling more optimistic about humankind. The goal is for us to leave each other's lives better than we found them. So sit back, relax, and let's ride the high together!
Second-Hand High
Kaci's High
Hey, howdy, and hello. It's been (checks watch) faaaaar too long since last we gathered together in the spirit of getting buzzed, baked, and blazed off the good will and good deeds of our fellow humans.
And are we ever in luck, because there are still plenty of good guys (and gals) still at large who deserve credit for their everyday heroics and community service. Perhaps no one exemplifies that better than my former colleague and ongoing friend, Kaci.
For her highs, she shares how human kindness can touch animals as well as people, as well as how the tender dedication of both her grandmothers' caregivers led to them becoming chosen family .
So, don't cry for me Argentina (especially if you don't get that reference), because this show is gonna have you saying, “Thank you... may I have another?”
This episode's HIGH-lights:
- YOU can be a biologist of sorts through the power of observation and the iNaturalist app. Every entry can contribute to biodiversity science, from the rarest butterfly to the most common backyard weed.
- Kaci and I met as work colleagues at SciTech Institute. Learn more about SciTech's mission to make Science, Tech, Engineering, & Math (STEM) accessible to everyone is AZ and beyond here.
- Have you ever thought, "I'd love to own a pet tortoise like Kaci's roommate?" Well, mate, temper your curiosity with caution, and visit this forum to learn about some of the Tortoise Basics for Prospective or Beginning Tortoise Owners before diving off the deep end into reptile ownership.
Kaci's Because It's Your Cause:
Prisma Community Care commits to providing affordable, affirming, and inclusive health and wellness services at their clinic and in the community, especially to those who have faced discrimination in healthcare. They administer quality primary care, mental health care, testing, treatment, and education through a compassionate and holistic approach. Their team is comprised of people from all walks of life who are specially trained to care for 2SLGBTQIA+ individuals, people of color, those affected by HIV, and the uninsured and underinsured.
To learn more about their services and how you can get involved, check them out here.
Want to share a time when you experienced a second-hand high? Then don't be shy! Sharing is caring.
To have your story featured on the podcast, email secondhandhigh.ohmy@gmail.com. To show your support and keep the podcast moving onward and upward, you can leave a glowing review wherever you stream your podcasts. Also, please like, follow, and rate on social media!
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Shall we begin? One,
SPEAKER_03:two, three. Oh,
SPEAKER_00:yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, howdy, and hello. It's been, check's watch, far too long since last we gathered together in the spirit of getting buzzed, baked, and blazed off the goodwill and good deeds of our fellow humans. I'd be a little bit more abashed about the long gap between podcasts if A, I wasn't a solo artist doing everything from recording to promoting and everything in between, and B, the world wasn't on fire around us with the good guys running around with squirt guns trying to put it all out. But that's why I I also decided I couldn't stay away. There are too many good guys still at large who deserve credit for their everyday heroics and community service. Perhaps no one exemplifies that better than my former colleague and ongoing friend, Casey. For her highs, she shares how human kindness can touch animals as well as people, and also how the tender dedication of both her grandmother's caregivers led to them becoming chosen family. The nonprofit she recommends during the Because It's Your Cause segment literally goes out of its way to bring affordable and inclusive health and wellness services to those who often face discrimination in health care. So don't cry for me, Argentina, especially if you don't get that reference, because this show is going to have you saying, thank you. May I have another? Hello, hi guys and gals. This is Sweeney and I'm really excited today to have as my gaze, as my guest, starting off strong. I'm excited to have as my guest, Casey. And so I know I kind of have to say that to anybody who comes on because like how rude would that be to be like, and here's a lukewarm welcome to, but I actually really am excited for Casey because we used to work And it's been about a year since we have, right? Oh
SPEAKER_02:my gosh, yeah. Over a year now. That's wild.
SPEAKER_03:I know. And yet, I still want to talk to you. I still want to be like your friend. Yeah, it's nice when it's not just reserved for work. You're like, oh, this is an enjoyable person. So now everybody gets to hear and enjoy getting to know you too. So lucky them. Anyway, thank you for coming on today. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Wow. So my name is
SPEAKER_02:Casey, born and raised in the Phoenix area in Arizona. Biggest things to know about me. I'm a big animal nerd, bug nerd, recently turned plant nerd. I never really used to be that into plants, but I'm coming around to them.
SPEAKER_03:I think you just like everything that's alive is what I've noticed about you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, people too, for sure. But if you're out and about with me, it's really hard to get me anywhere and any reasonable amount of time because I'll stop and talk to people and I'll stop and pick up bugs and I'd be like, oh, I have to take a picture of this plant, put it on iNaturalist. So
SPEAKER_01:that...
SPEAKER_02:To put it on your what? On iNaturalist, oh my gosh, it's the coolest app. It's a community science app. So you take pictures of basically anything that's not a human or like a pet and you upload it to iNaturalist and it helps identify it for you. And then it contributes to science. So like if you're a scientist, let's say I was a scientist and I was studying the geographic spread of boll weevils or something, or if I was really interested in looking at the blooming times of saguaros and if that's shifting. All of the data is public access. So I can go and use people's observations. If 2000 people have taken pictures of saguaros over the past five years, I can look at those and be like, okay, the saguaros were blooming in this month, this year and this month, this year. So yeah, it's so cool. But I mostly use it because I don't actually know very many plants and bugs. So when I go on hikes, I take pictures of everything and then upload them to iNaturalist to see what they are.
SPEAKER_03:It's the power of technology in your hands.
SPEAKER_02:It's so great. So yes, I am also just friends with everybody. I have had, I would say, four careers. I started off wanting to be a veterinarian. So I worked in animal care and vet clinics for like 10 years. I did research, ecological research. I did science education, which is where I worked with Sweeney. And also I was a barista many times, which I'm not sure if I want to like count that in there. But right now I work in sustainability and urban forestry. and least vegetated areas of our city. So super cool stuff. I had no idea that municipal government was doing any of this. So yeah, my dog's name is Emma. She's the best. And Sonoran Desert is my favorite ecosystem. That feels like it pretty much sums it up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you do. You do love your dog. Most of your social media pictures are with Emma. And we miss having her in the office. Although now my dog is roaming around the office. so no one is they're not bereft too much except everyone of course still misses Emma
SPEAKER_02:yeah Emma goes to doggy daycare now and I think I would be more thrilled to be a doggy daycare than she is but she's adjusted well but she's usually in the awkward dog room which is the room where the dogs don't really play they kind of all just wander around or like sit and stare into space or like take naps it's pretty cute
SPEAKER_03:can we make that a thing for people I need a room where I can just go and sit and be awkward awkward because like at all the buzzfeed quizzes keep telling me I'm an ambivert which I think is true because there are some social situations where I just thrive I'm like yeah I'm here yeah the party can start now all right I'm going to talk to this person and also this person at the same time and there's other times where I'm like I need to go hide in a coat closet and like eat sour worms I have nothing to say to anybody and I don't know how to human right now so yeah I think they need something like that for people
SPEAKER_02:I think that I am in because I I really thought that I was an ambivert for a really long time. And I think I've shifted to saying that I'm an anxious extrovert. Like I am an extrovert, but like the added layer of anxiety means that it's not always refreshing. I
SPEAKER_03:could see that. I feel like especially after COVID, I don't know what happened to me and my personality, but something happened. It was like a magic spell. I don't know. But I feel like I used to be a lot more social. And it's hard to differentiate. Is it because I had a kid? Is it because I'm getting older? Is it because of the pandemic? Is it all three? Who knows? But like, I definitely can tell that social anxiety is a thing more for me now. And it seems to be for other people I've talked to. So I'm like, I know that I'm still pretty good at forcing myself to go to things because I have that almost muscle memory where I'm like, Okay, once I'm there, I'm almost always fine. It's fun. I don't regret going, but it's still getting there. You're like, Oh, I'm gonna have to get in the car. and then drive, which is its whole other thing. Anyway, I could just go on about anxious stuff forever. But that's not the point of this podcast. I can rename it the post high anxiety. That can be my podcast after hours or
SPEAKER_02:something. Perfect.
SPEAKER_03:Love it.
SPEAKER_02:Your Patreon exclusive.
SPEAKER_03:Click now to listen to anxious content after dark. I know people would love that. One other thing that I thought could be cool is you have some of the coolest tattoos i've ever seen do you mind sharing what they are of
SPEAKER_02:yes so one arm i have all native arizona plants and they're in an elevation gradient so if you're not from arizona and you don't know we actually have all of the biomes except for marine so we have basically rainforests on the top of these mountains in southeast arizona we have alpine forests you name it, we've got it. And so particularly if you're driving from Phoenix to Flagstaff, you get this whole array of biomes from Sonoran Low Desert to scrub, juniper, pinyon pine, and then all the way up to the aspens and ponderosa pines of Flagstaff. And then if you keep going, you're up in like alpine, alpine. So on one arm, I have some native plants in an elevation gradient. And then on the other arm, I have some plants and insects that I studied when I was doing research. So some butterflies, some bees, and then a bunch of cool wildflowers. So my next tattoo is going to be a pigeon because I love pigeons. That could be a whole nother podcast too. So that's the next on my list is a pigeon.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's pretty cool. Because I know a lot of people refer to them as rats with wings. So I don't remember where I saw it. But it was something a tattoo someone had with a frog. And it said something about loving the unlovable or something. And I really liked that. that because I was like why do we choose certain creatures to elevate in love like you love the very obvious one of dogs a lot but you also love the non-obvious ones which I think is cool and because you have you kind of have a sleeve maybe it's a half sleeve you literally wear your heart on your sleeve through your tattoos
SPEAKER_02:it's true if you find me somewhere and bring up pigeons I will convince you
SPEAKER_03:to
SPEAKER_02:love pigeons
SPEAKER_03:it's gonna
SPEAKER_02:happen all right it's a threat to anybody
SPEAKER_03:who's listening maybe I'll take you up on that offer to get the convincing because I like having my preconceived notions challenged. Amazing. Let's do it. All right. Well, is there anything else that you want to share before we move along? I think the thing
SPEAKER_02:that I'm most proud of is just personal evolution in so many ways. I think that deciding to leave my career path initially when I was going to be a vet was really challenging because I just sort of had an identity built up around it. So that is pretty cool. And I've had to do that multiple times now just because exploring new careers. And yeah, I think it's amazing how much we learn over our lives and how that impacts, you know, our empathy for ourselves and empathy for others.
SPEAKER_03:Definitely.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I feel like that feels like accepting the sort of never ending journey of it feels like an accomplishment.
SPEAKER_03:I like that a lot. I know we were joking before we were recording about other careers you've had in the past. And it's like, I don't even know that person. And I feel I feel that way about myself with certain things. I'm like, I remember working at Jamba Juice, but I don't always remember all the particulars are how I was feeling necessarily or same when I was like a teaching assistant you have these different epics of your life you move through them and I think it's really cool how we can still retain some of the bigger lessons empathy or you learn how to be a hard worker or do things that could be considered mundane but important and then take those into your next steps because I think it would be pretty boring to be the same person forever or not grow at all
SPEAKER_02:yeah the thought that came to mind and I feel like I want to preface it I think that there's I don't know if it's a choice necessarily but you can take different things from your experiences right like you're talking about who was I when I worked at Jamba Juice what did I take from that and I think that as we go through our lives there's some intentionality behind what am I taking from this that I'm bringing forward in my life I think if you're somebody who has trauma from a past event like I'm not telling you like oh you should just look on the bright side that's all I have to do yeah
SPEAKER_01:right I But
SPEAKER_02:I do think there's something to be said for that thinking back or reflecting on past versions of yourself or just your life story and finding the positive things that you can bring forward, even if you may not have as much control over the negative things that you may bring forward.
SPEAKER_03:Anna,
SPEAKER_02:something
SPEAKER_03:like
SPEAKER_02:that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it does make me wonder, though, why our brains are so set on remembering the things cringeworthy or negative or embarrassing things. Like when you wake up at three in the morning, you're like, why did I say that in the second grade to my teacher? I'm like, okay, we learned that lesson. Can we just let it go? But our brains are like, nah, just in case we want to surprise you at 3am one of these days, we're going to hold on to this a little bit more. But yeah, I don't know. I know that the brain really likes to make it so that for things that are painful, those neuronal connections help you steer clear of experiencing that pain again so I'm sure it's like don't say that again don't do that again so it's like we'll keep reminding you we'll keep alarm clocking you at different times in your life but it's like that's why that's a great segue me I think that's why I like having this podcast it's important to me to highlight those things that we do remember that stick out to us that are positive because I for whatever reason because the brain wants to prevent from pain it's like yeah but we also have to remember the things that went well that we'd want to replicate too or that we've seen other people do and we're like hey that seemed to bring someone a lot of joy or brought me joy to see them this person give someone else joy and so I'd love to learn from that so I think especially in these rather depending who you are a lot of us find this to be a dark and depressing time for a lot of reasons that's part of why I've had trouble like coming back and recording an episode I thought about it so many times. I'm like, I really should get out there and put something good into the world. And I'm like, I can't do it. I'm just getting hit with this wave after wave of terrible news always. And I'm like, but there's still so many people trying and continuing to spread goodness. I'm like, I Yeah. good ones is my hope
SPEAKER_02:totally I think like a lot of people are really struggling and like what is my role right now and I saw this really amazing thing that it had this wheel of like people who build like make up a community right and they were like the people that we think about and the people that I sort of struggle to like I'm not somebody who has a lot of extra like time, energy beyond taking care of myself and like the immediate people around me to like go to protests all the time. You know what I mean? Like there's, there's things that are very visible that are very important, but thinking more critically about like what, there's so many different roles to play. And I think that individual connections and your local community that feels like the most accessible and also feels like something that when it comes down to the nitty gritty, whatever that nitty gritty ends up being is going to be some of the most important too. But yeah, I think everybody's really struck because it's hard. We like capitalism makes it really hard to do anything outside of just taking care of yourself and the people around you. So yeah,
SPEAKER_03:because we spend so much time getting money. Yeah, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know when that changed about myself. But yeah, I used to be I feel like I'm still an ambitious person. person, but I feel like my ambitions have been redirected. It's not so much about like, I feel like I want to climb to the top of this tier of this tower anymore. It's more like, I want to be able to work enough to be able to survive in that sense. But also like, I want to do the things I want to do who wants to spend their lives doing the things that someone else wants you to do the whole time. That's something I'm really appreciative about Gen Z and other and even millennials, just this whole different concept of hey what if life didn't have to be this specific nine to five or this whatever drudgery or thing that you don't want to do and you're just surviving to get by we have songs about this people like i
SPEAKER_02:yeah you see the way that people who are able to set that boundary and take care of themselves the way they're able to like pour into others i think is really something that is challenging like it's something that my therapist and i have talked to where she Like you have to care about yourself first. And I'm like, that's really uncomfortable for me. It is ultimately like how you are going to give back to others is by taking care of yourself first.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that makes sense. But if you are that person and you can't ever say no, like I do have trouble with that word just because it feels it just feels like denying somebody something that they need. But I think that's a cool thing that's happening now where it's like, no, you still have to see yourself as a person who needs help, too. And I think we all forget that because I was thinking about that the other day. You know, we see other people so frequently, but like the only time we see ourselves are when we look in a mirror, really. And so we spend so much time literally not even seen ourselves. So sometimes I think we forget ourselves too much to our own detriment.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah. And you know, thinking about this idea of individual like capitalism is very and colonialism is very like individualistic and thinking about the way that comes into play is you are giving but not receiving like it's a very
SPEAKER_01:giving,
SPEAKER_02:extractive, right? And so you have to be able to take that separation. And then once you do that, then you can step back into building sort of mutual care right or like collective care like I think a lot of self-care conversations that are I see particularly in more privileged spaces is focuses just on the take care of yourself part
SPEAKER_01:and it's like
SPEAKER_02:it's like well that's bringing yourself back out of this sort of extractive culture to then be able to put that into building more collective collective care, like whatever that looks like. I mean, even if it's literally just taking a walk with your friends once a week, or what, you know what I mean? Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:I know, I never know where these conversations are gonna lead. It's like, waxing deep and philosophical, it doesn't take much. So apparently, I always have the right guests, because they always manage to get there. They're like, and then let me tell you about, let me tell you about pigeons. Well, with that, would you like to lead us into talking about what your secondhand high is. Yeah, I
SPEAKER_02:actually, so I'm thinking of two and one is really silly and fun. And then I think one is a little bit more, I thought of while we were talking about seeing people be kind to people. So the first one that I thought of earlier that just really, I just got such a kick out of, and I think it encapsulates so much about bringing your authentic self to the world. I think there's part of that in there and inviting people to into your authenticity. So many good things. So there's this lake, we have this issue in Arizona, in Phoenix, where we have a lot of red eared sliders, which are a type of turtle.
SPEAKER_03:I've heard of those like they escape into people's yard and stuff. I just saw a post on one of those next door apps or something. Someone's like, what do I do with this thing?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so like tortoises and turtles are notoriously good escape artists.
SPEAKER_01:But
SPEAKER_02:also people will get red eared sliders as they're really cool. common pet store pet and then they're like I'm over it and so they drop them they put them into lakes
SPEAKER_03:we had that problem in college people would get pet turtles and then release them into this like pond right outside of the university it's nuts
SPEAKER_02:yes and so there's this one little pond in Tempe it's right next to a restaurant and I was at the restaurant we were on the patio and I saw this guy and he was feeding there's turtles that were coming up out of the pond and he was feeding them something And my first thought was, oh no, what is he feeding them? Kind of the way that a lot of people feed ducks and stuff bread, but it can be really bad for them
SPEAKER_01:just
SPEAKER_02:because they don't know. So I was like, oh, that maybe is concerning. And then when we got done eating, we went over to see the turtles and be like, what's going on? And it turns out that this guy had bought a container of bread yard slider food pellet and had it with him. And so all the turtles were coming out and he was feeding them. But then he also had this little stack of Dixie cups. And there was like a mom and a kid who walked over a little bit before we had. And the guy poured some of the little pellets into a little Dixie cup and gave it to the kid. And then like the kid was feed. And so he basically like created this tiny petting zoo, slightly more dangerous because turtles snap, feed with your own caution.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, this guy was just, he just bought turtle food and showed up in this public place and was feeding these turtles and then was like, this is so delightful. I hope that other people come over here so I can give them the same experience of feeding the turtles. And so then I went and bought a container of turtle food. So when I went back there, I could feed the turtles. That's how Emma met turtles, also. Very cute, her
SPEAKER_03:first turtle. Because you, don't you live, not with a turtle, but you live with a tortoise, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:he's a Sonoran Desert tortoise. That's right. Those things live for like 120-ish years, don't they? Something like
SPEAKER_02:that. The bigger ones do, like the Galapagos tortoises. Not the Galapagos. I mean, yes, Galapagos tortoises live forever, but the common ones are sulcatas I think. Okay. Sonoran desert tortoises are 50 to 80 so still a pretty long time but not as long as the giant ones.
SPEAKER_03:What's it like living with a tortoise? Oh my gosh
SPEAKER_02:she's so cool. So a lot of people keep them outside and they do need to have like UV sunlight. We live in a rental that has a pretty big backyard that doesn't have a great fence. Okay. So tortoises are really notorious for digging and they will dig under fences and then you'll find them walking down the road blocks down the road or whatever this happened somebody when i was a kid we found a box turtle walking down the road and it was somebody's pet that had dug out of the yard so anyway so if you have like a really nice enclosed backyard people will keep them in their backyards obviously they're native here but it does get a little bit hot like you can tell when he's like okay i'm done out here and when they bruminate which is like they it's hibernation but it's not true through hibernation because they're not fully asleep or something. I don't know. I don't know the technicalities. Somebody I know who has one, she has like a camera set up and a thermometer set up in the burrow in the backyard because it is sort of anxiety inducing that you're like, okay, my pet is going to be underground for however many months. I hope he's okay. I hope it doesn't flood rain. I hope it doesn't freeze. So anyway, so Bob the tortoise goes outside to graze during the day and then he spends the rest of his time inside And when he hibernates, he hibernates in a cardboard box with a bunch of shredded newspaper in the coldest room in the house, which is the laundry room. So yeah, I mean, he spends a lot of his time, honestly, you'll see him sort of like walking by occasionally, like he'll move from area to area. But most of the time, he like sort of parks himself in a corner somewhere, like kind of in the equivalent of a burrow and is napping. What's his
SPEAKER_03:name? Bub. bub i do remember that was my experience with bub when i was at your house for that party and he's just kind of like at some point he just wanders in and was kind of like what's up and then kind of goes on his merry way so i was like all right it's so funny well now you know if you want a turtle or tortoise there's a lot of considerations all right well i know you said you had another high sadly probably un-turtle related but probably still pretty in My other one,
SPEAKER_02:I, so both of my grandmas had dementia. And I think I have something to say about the way we think about dementia. But going back, so both of my grandmas lived in senior care facilities, like they both ended up in memory care. They didn't have, you know, they couldn't live on their own. Their kids were still working right there, like, which wasn't really the resources, the people resources. I'm definitely a big advocate of like, if you can keep them home, you can keep them home. home without wanting to murder each other. I think that that's really nice. But not everybody has the emotional, financial, logistical resources to take care of their elders. So both of my grandmas were in memory care facilities, and they were actually both in really nice ones. We ended up being really lucky that both of my grandmas were pretty financially literate, and both of their husbands also were. And then their husbands died. And so they were collecting their husband's pensions. They both also had teacher pensions. And so they just They were in a good place financially, which is so, so fortunate. They were both at really nice places, but it is still really... those places are really challenging because they are, because capitalism, because they're understaffed, the people who are there are underpaid. And so my one grandma in particular was, the word that came to mind is difficult and difficult in the sense that a lot of the other old people were content sort of just sitting around and watching TV. She is not that, like she wanted to be on the go. She wasn't gonna sit down and be quiet, which we love that about her. And then my other grandma was at sort of a different stage was dealing with some health issues and like not really getting the one-on-one care that she needed she wasn't really eating and there wasn't a whole lot being done to get her to eat more right like there and it's this is not the fault of the people working there right like they all they're doing the best they can but anyway we hired for both of my grandmas sort of at different points we hired individual caregivers so when I say we are paying my grandmas were paying they didn't know it But we're paying for the facility, which is five million bajillion dollars. But then we also had a private caregiver for each of my grandma's on top of that. And both of those women were just so incredible. And the way that they interacted, people really struggle to deal with people with dementia. Like people really struggle in interacting with them. A lot of people don't know how to handle it, especially if you're somebody who knew the person before they got dementia. It's just really challenging to navigate. But both of them were so great. And the way that my grandmas just lit up for these women and the amount of like real care. I mean, they were especially my one grandma who we had people seven days a week for eight hours a day, every single day.
SPEAKER_01:They
SPEAKER_02:were like her closest companions. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think it was really amazing to see them grow. interact with really like all of the elderly folks because there is a level of if they're being hired as a private caregiver they're probably making a little bit more than the people who are at the facility but like it is such a thankless job you know what I mean in terms of really any sort of caregiving for people or animals but I think animals feel a little bit different in the sense that I think there's the difficulties that come along with caregiving for animals are often human and system induced
SPEAKER_01:but
SPEAKER_02:you're still having positive interactions with the animals whereas like if you're caregiving for somebody with dementia there's positives don't get me wrong but you're not getting paid well you might depending on the old person might be getting yelled at or like verbally abused you know what I mean my grandma's thank goodness as far as I know we're both nice people so I think that might be my more serious touchy feely one but just caregivers in general it's really amazing and I think especially The way that the caregivers for people with dementia and Alzheimer's see the human and bring out the human in the people that they're caregiving for, I think is just so amazing. And I really learned a lot from them. One of the caregivers, she would say, she was like, well, you're so good with your grandmas. And I was like, well, I've watched people, you know what I mean? I've seen the way that people interact and the way that they go with the flow and just... to them, it's, you know, it's a job. It's also something that they obviously care about, otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it. We're still in contact. My grandma's died two years ago, and we're still in contact with both of the caregivers. Really? Yeah. That's
SPEAKER_03:amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we told them, we're like, you're forever family. But also the value add for my grandma's. I mean, it was the difference between night and day. I mean, it really just, I think, changed their quality of life 100 times over. I
SPEAKER_03:mean, I think it takes a really special kind of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it better like kind of like we were talking about earlier so is there any specific instance that stands out in your mind of something you saw when they were interacting with your grandmas or was it just kind of I know you talked about kind of in the mundane sometimes it was just the fact that they were there and that they treated them kindly that's kind of a big deal in and of itself like you said especially when people are stressed or have their own stuff going on to have to deal with someone else's hard stuff can be Not always bring out the
SPEAKER_02:best in you. So totally. I'm thinking of two. The first one I think is my one grandma who like did not have a really good appetite and she was losing weight and like there was some medication that she needed to eat to be able to take the medication, but she wasn't eating. And again, like this, the facility was doing their best, but they didn't have the capacity to give her the one-on-one attention to be like, okay, I'm going to sit down with you and get you to eat. And so when we hired Yolanda, Yolanda started spending her own money and we had to, we were like, no, give us the receipts. We're tried getting these fruit smoothies from McDonald's. They're sort of like fruit smoothie milkshake things. And then she was getting these protein shakes from I think they're like Shamrock Farms has these super protein chocolate milks or like strawberry milks. So she tried all these different things and she was running the extra errand. She wasn't like charging that time to us spending her own money on these things to like figure out what my grandma was interested in. And she'd always bring her little treats. And she also always always brought treats for the other people in the wing too. Like if she brought my grandma something, not all the time, but you know, she brought cookies once in a while, she'd bring cookies for my grandma. And she also would make sure that she had them for the, in her little wing of the unit, there's maybe six or eight other elderly folks and she would give everybody the cookies or, and she would always bring stuff from the nurses too. Just so generous. And yeah, I mean, it made a huge difference. My grandma, was gaining some weight back and I think had a much better quality of life for the amount of life that she had left. The other one I think is for my other grandma. Like I said, I was pretty comfortable around my grandma. And my dad, it was definitely harder for my dad, but he sort of outwardly did okay. My brother wasn't always sure, but he did a pretty good job. My aunt did a great job. But in general, it's hard, right? And different family members, when they would come by, would have sort of different challenges.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You could tell that when we came to visit, whether it was just me and my dad or at one point we had all... five cousins and my dad and my aunt come, the caregiver would try her best to help facilitate that interaction in a way that was positive for us. Which, I mean, obviously you could say like, well, we're her employers, technically the family, because we're like managing the money. But I think... Recognizing some of the discomfort in people and trying to make visits a more positive interaction, I think was really above and beyond her job description. And it was something that seemed to come really naturally to her. It was just really impressive.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that just reminds me of how all the things that take so much skill seem to be things we undervalue so much in society. Like as someone who has a mom who's a caregiver to my sister, they're just such... Thankless jobs, people just kind of are like, oh, this is expected. And I think that's another thing this podcast sometimes inadvertently does. It draws the attention of all these different lived experiences. Learning from other people's experiences is important because I shouldn't have to have a grandma with dementia who needs caregiving to hear your story and be like, oh, wow, yeah, she deserves the best care. And I'm so glad she got it. But I think that's a really cool high. We haven't had a caregiving one yet. So that's so
SPEAKER_02:right to that, like the people who are doing the most for other people or for animals, any sort of social or environmental good, or any sort of caregiving is so underpaid. and undervalued in our society
SPEAKER_01:yes
SPEAKER_02:i mean the other thing is just like customer service jobs and how you work if you're a barista that's not considered to be a valuable career valuable job but it's something that potentially is a source of constant positive interaction for somebody who doesn't have that outside of their lives you know like there's just so many ways that we undervalue these roles that are really doing some of the most important stuff like i Right. I do think that our... issue with getting old is all tied back to ableism.
SPEAKER_01:Because
SPEAKER_02:I mean, there's some level of obviously beauty standard BS, but it really is tied back to this. We are so uncomfortable with any sort of disability and like any sort of reliance on anybody but ourselves and having any lack of control over our bodies. And so really, I think that like the type of justice that we need for elderly people, disabled people is it's ultimately disability justice. Like it's the same as fighting for people's who have chronic illness or developmental disabilities or life-changing injuries, whatever it is. It all feels really tied together.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, in the United States alone, 25% of people supposedly have a disability. I think we'd all be a lot better off if we found ways to be accepting of things that we haven't found a way to change yet and just let things be. I think if we did, then everyone could just get on with their lives. And like, we could all recognize, oh, this person has this condition, we should help them. We're so into being uncompassionate and not seeing people as people right now. And I'm like, this just isn't it for me. I'm in the wrong
SPEAKER_02:timeline. Yeah, I'm like, we I mean, the other thing is, I think you and I both have the experience being intimate with somebody not not necessarily like a romantic or sexual way, but like in an emotionally intimate way with
SPEAKER_01:people
SPEAKER_02:who have disabilities and who are dealing with various Mm-hmm. you know, I would get an abortion because, oh my God, like what a sad existence. No, like it's not. It's the same type of existence as any other human being. And I feel like dementia was the same way where it's like, I found so much value in spending time with my grandmas even after they got dementia. And I think that you have to go into it with a sense of the things that I value, you know, or the things that society values might not align with the values that they're bringing to the table. Like for my grandmas, people are like, oh, well, they don't recognize or their stories aren't true. And it's like, okay, then you're meeting your grandma again. That's so cool. Getting to meet your grandma as a stranger, they think they don't know you. That's a super cool, insightful experience. Or like, when they're telling stories, the meaning is still there. Maybe the dates are mixed up, or they said that their dad was at their grandkids high school graduation, the timelines are mixed up, whatever. But the value of those stories still exists. whether or not they're like accurate, I guess. And so I just think that's so much of like disability and just shared humanity is realizing that the things that you value in your own life are not the be all end all of what personhood is, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I feel like if you make it far enough in life and you still Haven't gotten to experience things outside of your comfort zone or people whose lives differ so much from yours. I feel like it's just to your detriment because you lack an understanding, kind of like you said, how we know from experience. And it's just, yeah, there's a lot. of ways to get those experiences too. You can volunteer, you can widen your social net. Lots of people have family members. And you know, my sister does have Down syndrome, as a matter of fact. And so it's like, I'm used to the stares we've gotten in public and things. You have a wide variety of reactions that you get. Sometimes you get weird looks. Sometimes you get intrigued looks. Sometimes you get people coming up to you in restaurants and just letting you know how angelic and special that person is. And really, the best reaction I think is just one of if you have questions to ask, I think that's fine. I don't think my mom's ever been upset by that. But it is weird when you have either that initial gut reaction of Oh, this person is different and kind of weird and scary or oh this person is an angel in human form I'm like now this is just my sister she's a weirdo to really know someone I think is a privilege and kind of like you're saying whether they have dementia or disability or their life is one you don't understand they say it's hard to hate people up close I think it would be great if we had more of that that's the thing I keep coming back to hey what if
SPEAKER_02:well and I think like it all comes back to I mean you know we talked it like we're talking about getting to know somebody and the privilege of getting to know somebody and what we learn from getting to know people sort of intimately but there's also the privilege of just experiencing being a human with somebody else which sometimes that literally could just mean exchanging pleasantries instead of not acknowledging each other when you're walking by like there's just so many little acts of acknowledging each other's humanism human humanity humanity thank you there's like so many ways to do that and I think that In that, I mean, when I was a barista, when I was a cashier, there were so many different experiences of the world that I learned about just from having these brief interactions. Like I worked at Safeway, right? We had wealthy people, we had homeless people, we had give me the gambit of people. I was just gonna say the word
SPEAKER_03:gambit.
SPEAKER_02:Yay. Yeah. And you get these little almost like snapshots into all these different people's lives. You know, I really think that for me, it gave me just shared humanity. And the more differences that I learn about, and the more stories I hear about those lives, the more similarities I end up finding. And I
SPEAKER_03:think that's really important going back to these divided times when people just see the world so completely differently. But I think recognizing the humanity, as you said, in people, it can kind of strip away some of that stuff that we We just use to build up walls or mountains between us and others. Let's stop othering each other, I guess, would be a great first step.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think the reason that social media companies are so profitable is because they figured out that people are going to react more to things that are divisive. They're going to react more to things that are fear inducing, right? And I think that... Guilty. No, same. And it's like, I think it's... sort of this encouraging, this very black and white us and them. And I think that our archetype of a person, of whatever type of person that your particularly social media or your political party or whatever says about somebody who is on an opposing side, I think when you actually meet somebody, it's a lot more complicated than that a lot of the times. I That's not making excuses for bigotry. That's not making excuses for putting hate into the world. But I think that there is a level of a lot of us live in a society and a system that we don't have a lot of safety mechanisms
SPEAKER_01:and
SPEAKER_02:that we just have a lot of anxiety and a lot of uncertainty. And I think a majority of people are acting out of fear or insecurity or whatever it is. And again, that's not an excuse, right? I've learned so much from just following pages of people whose life experiences I don't understand right there's this YouTube series it's like born different or like love don't judge it's like these little they're kind of like I've seen love
SPEAKER_03:don't
SPEAKER_02:judge but it's like consuming content like that it's not an excuse I'm not making excuses for these people for their bigotry but I do think that understanding where that's coming from for a lot of people or how that was built even if it's saying this person I need to write out of my life. This person is not welcome. This person is not a safe person. All of that is very valid, but understanding maybe where that came from, even if it's not going to help that person in the way that we would like to see them evolve, it can help us for other people who maybe are earlier on in trying to process those anxieties, those same anxieties or those same fears.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think it can really help guide conversations because that's the part I struggle with most. I've asked other people who share my viewpoints politically or spiritually or whatever the case is, because I'm like, help, I have trouble with my presentation of my views and it's hard for me not to be a hothead and go from zero to a thousand wouldn't it be cool though if we figured it out like just talking right now on this podcast and we just like we figured out the solution we're like this is it and we like just wrapped it up and presented it in a nice neat bundle and like okay this is how we're gonna fix this whole situation of misunderstandings and issues with the world but I do think at least talking about it it's a start it makes us think it makes other people think and if it leads somebody to being more open or more considerate, that's a win. Well, I appreciate your points of views, your POV as it were. And now that we have just about thoroughly covered maybe all of the topics that we've briefly touched on everything. I would love to hear about your because it's your cause.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I learned about this organization at the time they were called Southwest HIV Center, I think. And they actually came into Brick Road, which is a queer... It is really... It's queer coffee. And they were super, super nice. And they were like, Oh, do you want to get tested? And I was like, I'm not while I'm at work. But
SPEAKER_01:my
SPEAKER_03:finger for blood while I'm making this latte.
SPEAKER_02:Not ideal, but I ended up making the people were just so nice. And so I ended up making an appointment to just do routine testing at their clinic. And ended up learning a lot more about them. They are a queer sort of focus clinic. And then they started off, like I said, with sort of HIV AIDS stuff, but they do so much more. They do mental health care. Now they've just started doing primary care, which is really amazing for queer folks, especially medical care generally can be challenging to navigate. And they also do gender affirming care, which is really huge right now. And when there was all of this stuff going around about the administration pulling funding for clinics or places that have gender affirming care, they got it together pretty There was a period of time where they were like, we're pausing just to figure out what we can do. Like, we're pausing it to make sure we can still provide all these services. But they figured out a way around it really fast. And I just think that,
SPEAKER_03:yeah, they did. No,
SPEAKER_02:truly. And so I think that was who I donated my tax credit to this year. Being a trans person, especially right now is really scary. And so having a clinic that they can get mental health care and regular physical medical care and get gender affirming care and get sexual wellness and anybody can access those services, I think is really just like so critical right now. And all of the healthcare providers are like most of the healthcare providers are also queer of some sort. So yeah, and they serve I think I was looking at their website, they serve like 80% of their clients are ever below the poverty line. Like they're just a really great organization.
SPEAKER_03:See, it's organizations like these that make me just really happy to learn about because first of all i feel like it's good to have these in your back pocket right we all know someone who's queer here are queer they're queer like there's so there's so many of you know it's just it's part of the human race and they deserve like that's the bare minimum it's like having appropriate care for your body and your needs like that should just be a big dot i think everyone should be spreading the good word about places that are doing good work so prisma community care and their website is prismacare.org so that's pretty easy to remember and I'll put that included in the show notes so that anyone who wants to donate or get involved or right from their website they make it really easy to like request an appointment or get care or get informed, get information.
SPEAKER_02:And if you live in Arizona, if you're an Arizona taxpayer, they also are a qualifying charitable tax credit organization, which there are not very many queer serving organizations that are currently on that list, because of obviously, like the data that you have to collect to be to qualify for that. So keep that in mind for taxes for next year.
SPEAKER_03:If you're an Arizona resident, apparently, the AZ tax credit is unique to Arizona, it essentially means like, you can donate right now, it's up to And like 938 for joint filers and 470 for single filers. And you can donate that amount to like an organization like Prisma Community Care. And then you get it back when you file your taxes, essentially. So it's like a rebate, which is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like if you owe$500 of your taxes, instead of that tax money going towards whatever, you're basically rerouting that tax money to an organization that you care about. Also schools. So donate to your public schools because they really need it right now.
SPEAKER_03:Seriously. Yeah. And they have a separate one, like a tax credit for the schools as well. So, so many ways to give. Well, thank you for sharing that. We've arrived at the point where I asked the question that I know can be a little trippy for some people or some people just have it at the ready. So feel free to take a second if you need it. But I always ask people what they would like their final thought to be as we wrap up.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I had so many thoughts. Yeah. You know that I'm... which one do i pick you know honestly i think next time you are in any sort of if you're picking up coffee if you're at a restaurant if you are at the grocery store when you have the social battery just genuinely ask somebody how their day is or like show genuine interest in somebody's life my favorite question you know i loved asking like what are you doing today or like you know what do you have planned for the weekend and i think you you are going to make that person's day a lot of times but like yeah ask somebody like what they're doing this weekend
SPEAKER_03:it's great to see people who are beacons of that i know you were like that a lot too in the office even though you were inhumanely busy somehow you always managed to make make those human connections and i think that's why everyone likes being around you so much so i just like people it's
SPEAKER_02:easy for me to say because i genuinely just think people are interesting and usually cool
SPEAKER_03:all creatures great and small casey loves them all. Well, I really appreciate you being on this podcast. It definitely was a lively one. So it's, it's always nice to get back in the saddle and get just like a nice excuse to talk to interesting people who I like. So how cool is that? How cool is that?
SPEAKER_02:It's so rare, I think to just be like, I'm gonna sit down and talk to my friend for an hour. Like,
SPEAKER_03:I know, I do know you're busy. So I can't let you go, sadly. I'm
SPEAKER_02:mostly hungry. Otherwise, I was thinking about food
SPEAKER_03:too. I know I was like Taco Bell after this podcast. I don't feel like cooking. Well, thanks again.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, thank you for having me. It was fun to talk and we'll talk again soon.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Thanks for getting high with us. Your support means everything. Speaking of... Thanks again for listening, and remember to be well, do
SPEAKER_00:good.