Bring Out the Talent: A Learning and Development Podcast

Culture Killers: Addressing the Behaviors Disrupting Today’s Workplace Cultures

• Maria Melfa & Jocelyn Allen

Share episode

A toxic workplace culture can drive out great employees faster than low pay, and nearly 70% of workers say culture directly impacts productivity. So, what’s quietly undermining your organization?

In this episode of Bring Out the Talent, Brett Hoogeveen, Co-Founder of BetterCulture, shares how to spot and stop the behaviors that erode trust, lower morale, and sabotage performance. Brett offers a unique lens on what makes organizations thrive and what tears them apart. From gossip and negativity to leadership blind spots, Brett reveals early warning signs of culture erosion and practical ways to course-correct. You’ll also hear about BetterCulture’s “20 Tenets of Culture” a blueprint for building workplaces people genuinely want to join.

This episode offers actionable insights for leaders who want to build a higher-performing culture.

Here is your link to a free resource mentioned in the episode:https://betterculture.com/bringoutthetalent/. 

SPEAKER_05:

Bring up the talent. Bring up the talent.

SPEAKER_01:

Bring up the talent. Welcome to Bring Up the Talent, a podcast featuring learning and development experts discussing innovative approaches and industry insights. Tune in to hear our talent, help develop yours. Now here are your hosts, TTA CEO and President Maria Melfa, and talent manager Jocelyn Allen.

SPEAKER_05:

Sometimes I wonder if that's even my name.

SPEAKER_06:

Last time I checked, well, last time I checked, I think it was. That's how I know you. So please let me know. I know. I'll have to change a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05:

I know. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, we wear so many hats that. Right. Yeah. Okay. Jocelyn, did you know that a toxic workplace culture is more likely to drive employees out than low pay? For that, nearly 70% of workers say their company's culture has a direct impact on their productivity.

SPEAKER_06:

No, but that number sounds astronomical. Astronomical.

SPEAKER_05:

Sadly, it does not surprise me, but I I know we'll get into that. In this episode of Bring Out the Talent, we're joined by Brett Hogevin, co-founder of Better Culture, a company on a mission to help leaders build thriving workplace cultures that people actually want to be part of, with a background that ranges from engineering to healthcare to Olympic volleyball. That's not true, that part leadership to start up investing. Brett knows a thing or two about what makes organizations tick and what quietly tears them apart. Today we're driving into culture killers, addressing the behaviors disrupting today's workplace culture. From conflict and negativity to good old-fashioned gossip. Brett will help us uncover the behaviors that can derail even the best teams. Get ready for a candid conversation that helps you rethinking the subtle signs in your own workplace and maybe in your next meeting or email. Welcome, Brett.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. So excited to be here.

SPEAKER_05:

So excited to have you here. And let me tell you, this is one of my favorite topics because in the 31 and a half years that I have run TTA, I think this is one of the most important things and undervalue things. And I know if you've asked me in these years, what are the things that I've learned so much is that like culture is non-negotiable. Having a culture that I I love, your tenets of culture, and I know we'll talk about that there, but I absolutely loved it. So as we mentioned, you have a unique journey, not really the Olympic volleyball, but besides that, everything is very exciting. So from engineering to healthcare to co-founding better culture, what led you to focus your energy on helping organizations build a better workplace culture?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, I uh yes, the volleyball thing definitely caught me off guard. I thought, where did you find that? Did AI malfunction for you? So I was always someone who grew up, I just liked math and science. I was one of those types that just like solving problems, like understanding how things work, etc. And but you know, and when you're that kind of kid, guidance counselors in high school and other things, they say you should look at engineering or whatever. And I just didn't know what I really wanted to do, so I took their advice. I I went to school, got a got a degree, about halfway through that university degree, I realized, oh, I I sort of like the science of this, but I don't, I never I don't, I never took a look at what the actual job looks like. And I didn't like that at all. And so when I got into the real world, I I just I was struggling to figure out what was the right path for me, what I really wanted to do. And I grew up in a unique circumstance in that my father was running a healthcare-oriented nonprofit organization at large, successful nonprofit in the uh in our in my home market of Omaha, Nebraska. And they were being voted the number one best place to work every single year, year after year after year. And here I was not loving my job and realizing that I had never really listened to my parents the way that I probably should have. And I never really understood why he and his leadership team valued culture so much until I was in a job I didn't love. And it was really at that point that I woke up and I said, Whoa maybe it's at least as important, if not more important, where you work, the type of company you work for, the type of people you work with, what your daily experience actually is versus what you say you do. So that was kind of my path and and my my awakening as far as understanding the power and the importance of creating a great work environment and everyday workplace experience for people.

SPEAKER_06:

I love this topic too. So me and Maria are very much in line with that and and what she does for culture has always amazed me. But I'm very interested in knowing more of like what you learned from like what you just said with your parents and the company that you they were running, the hot topic of what a culture killer is. So you very specifically say culture killer, like that kind of for lack of a better word, maybe aggressive type of a category for good reason. But can you tell us more about that and what it what you mean by an actual culture killer? What are these things? Are they behaviors? Is it is it bigger than that? I I'm I'm very curious to know more.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it is an absolute fact that one person who shows up on a team or or an organization in a negative way, delivering some kind of attitude or behavior that upsets the culture can do a lot more damage than one person who shows up doing things the right way. The the the ideal attitudes and behaviors that we would look for. And so in organizations, if if we don't, if we're not clear, not just about what we do want, a lot of organizations have core values and they have the positive things, but they're not as they're not as clear oftentimes of the negative things that please don't do this. This is what we don't want, because these things will undermine our culture. We do culture surveys, we do a lot of things where I can show you data that if you if you have a team that's overly populated by I call them vacuums, there are a lot of terms out there for those folks that suck the life and the energy out of a team. If you have even just a few of those folks floating around on a small team, it's really tough to have a really healthy, high-quality, high-performing work environment. And so if we don't address these culture killers, then we end up in a spot we don't want to be.

SPEAKER_05:

You typically find that you're able to change these people because sometimes you have people coming in and you know, and looking at in hindsight, they left their previous organization because they they weren't happy or they didn't agree with how the organization worked. They they come in here, they're not happy. So how how do you know when it's time to part ways with a person versus just working with them? And how long does that take?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a really complicated question. So and I think you probably would agree with that and probably know that. Uh what I will tell you is when I'm evaluating whether or not someone is going to fit an organization or their performance, I I'm looking at three things. Is it a skill issue, an effort issue, or an ability issue? And if it's a skill issue, if they just no one ever showed them the right way to show up at work and they're open to learning a new way, they can make some progress on that. That you can change attitude a bit. You can change the way you show up. People just have different role models, they have different perspectives on what work can be and should be. And if you can shift that and change that via coaching or via feedback or via role modeling or via positive praise and encouragement or via all sorts of disprogressive discipline, there's all sorts of tools that exist. That you may see some progress. If it's an effort issue, those are harder to change. And often it's certainly not training that gets somebody to change. I think attitude is an effort issue for some people. Some people just have a positive attitude all the time. They're a great team member no matter what. They were sort of born that way. Other people, you're not gonna change, but there is a there's a decent group in the middle that if they'll just work at it, they can make progress. But you have to be willing to get into those sticky conversations about sort of topics that can feel gray to some managers. Yeah, you're just really hard to work with. Now, how do we talk about that, right? And if it's an ability issue, those are the ones that I sort of feel like, yeah, I this is a this is a core personality trait, and it's just not a fit here, and we're not likely to change that. And so uh if I gave you, I told you I'm an engineer, I like math, I I think probably 40% of these folks that are really toxic, really negative, can be saved, they can be changed, they can be improved, and maybe 60% give it your best, but don't don't use all your time and energy trying to trying to change them. Let them go bless uh some other organization with their their presence, if you ask me.

SPEAKER_05:

So no, that definitely makes sense, and that's what I I've seen, I believe, in my experience as far as it being probably the majority that doesn't necessarily turnaround, but it's it's still possible. So, Brett, you've worked with organizations of all sizes from startups to Fortune 500 companies. What are the some of the most common culture killers that you're seeing, regardless of like the industry or size?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, yes, at Better Culture, I've had a chance to work with many organizations, and and we ended up with a list of these 20 what we call tenants, which I think we'll probably get into in our conversation. And so a few of those, the reason those made the list is because they are major culture killers. One that sounds easy, but until you really lean into it and understand how how sort of quietly undermining it is, is whether or not people have the ability to consistently assume positive intent from other people on the team. When you have individuals who always assume that the reason they weren't invited to a meeting was some nefarious thing because someone doesn't like them, or the reason that the company made this decision is because they're trying to pad somebody's bottom line and they don't care about their people, or the reason that somebody cut them off in traffic is because they're just a jerk, etc. This, what I what I started realizing, this is a core value, and I'd be curious if you have thoughts on this, Maria, but the one of my favorite core values that teams can have is assume positive intent or or or give someone the assumption of positive intent. And when I don't see it, it just is glaring to me, not only for how a team performs and what it feels like in a company, but for someone's own mental health, for their own quality of life. If you go through life just assuming that people are trying to aggrieve you in some way, it really leads to a lot of dysfunction, not just on teams, but for individuals in life. And so that's one that really stands out to me. What do you think about that one?

SPEAKER_05:

I absolutely love it. I have, as I mentioned in the intro a little bit, I read your 10, your 20, not 10, 20 tenants of culture. And again, I absolutely love them. I printed it out. I want to share it with my company today. And I absolutely love you referring to tenant three, assume positive intent. I love that so much. And we talk about it a lot because we talk about if we have good intentions, then we can work through things. That's what I believe. So and I believe that everybody has to trust that we do have the right team players here, and that if there's issues going on, if one, if you know a team member feels that the other team member could have dropped the ball, we have to trust that they have good intentions. If they continually drop the ball, then obviously that's a problem the manager has to take and work with them, and then we decide what the next step is. But we have to assume good intentions and that we we say that all the time, because then it just doesn't become an emotional issue. It becomes more of a kind of factual and just kind of having grace. And I believe that's another thing that you have here too, forgiving, right? And yes, yeah, so kind. I mean, there's there's so many good things here because we're all human beings as we know, and and it like we do such a thorough job to make sure that we believe that the person who we hire is going to be a right culture fit. We care much more about personality than we do about experience, for sure. I agree entirely. You know, we we've had to make some hard choices over the years where we've had top performers that we've had to let go. And that was when I mentioned that was one of the biggest lessons learned over these years. I did keep on keep several high performers that were not great for the rest of the organization. And I realized so much after there these people left the company, like, wow, what an impact that had on everybody. So I I I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. Yeah. You asked for others. Like you want another one that I that I see a lot is gossip. People that just I have I've really come to respect people in life who just don't have time for it, that that they don't start it, they don't want to join in, they don't want to listen. And I could show you teams that I've worked with where it just doesn't happen. I mean, it where where there's people genuinely like and trust and respect one another. And if if you assume positive intent, there's just the the relationships are clean and people don't talk behind each other's back, people don't throw people under the bus. And the difference that that makes on a team, I I could also show you teams and organizations where people are constantly complaining about one another and bickering and just this this this quiet sort of undercurrent of of gossip. I I was I I don't this isn't a client of mine, but I was speaking at a conference last week, and one of the folks just started describing this medical practice that they run and and how no one stays longer than six months, and they have about 15 or 20 employees, but every single I mean, it's just people are just constantly complaining at each other and gossiping. And I just thought, yeah, I wouldn't stay more than six minutes in a culture like that. It it just so much of it needs to be sort of fumigated from the ground up to make it uh a safe, enjoyable, fun, friendly, uplifting place. Any of that negativity, that toxicity, the those culture killers, they are just really tough on employees, they're tough on businesses.

SPEAKER_05:

They're exhausting. They're exhausting. Just talking about it, I had to take a deep breath. Like literally, because I have muscle memory of some of these situations. And every once in a while, unfortunately, currently, I feel like we I mean, probably the majority not so, but but yes, it it certainly resonates.

SPEAKER_06:

It's one of the things like when I was looking at these that also resonated with me because these remind me not only of the values that like TTA brings to the table, but a lot of the things that I think in the years that we've existed have kind of like been acknowledged and been like, okay, no more of this, no more of that. And we move on and we create exact like this culture around it where everybody gets along and communication, I think, and understanding that with that communication everybody has the best of intentions has really kind of broken the barrier of preventing what becomes gossip if you don't have a culture that allows that communication. And so I agree. I think that from the friendly friction, because if you know and if anybody knows anything about me, we talk about Clifton strengths a lot in our organization because we use that and we we dial into them from where others' strengths reside and who map like kind of parallels that because my bottom five is your top five, right? Things like that. And one of my, I'm a positive person, one of my top five is positivity, but I think my number 34, 35 is harmony. It's and it's not because I don't like harm the way that I reflect on it is that I am such a proponent for difficult conversations and healthy conflict. Because if you're not learning and kind of discovering new things about each other, like what are you doing? We're not we're not growing, we're not evolving. And so even the the friendly friction to have intelligent and intellectual conversation to resolve conflict, but also kind of expose different viewpoints is another reason why I think culture can expand from communication being kind of like the the the foundation of it all. And I and I agree, I just I love this whole thing. And so where where did this come from for you, Brad? Like was there early warning signs that like you kind of started to discover in areas that you were working with that created you to develop this? Like where what what indicated that this was a need and how you created it?

SPEAKER_00:

So for about 15 years, we've been working with organizations that want to develop leaders and want to be better places to work. And really the only perspective we've had on that for the first 10 of 10 to 12 of those years was well, it's 100% leadership's job to do that. And we would work with executive teams and we would we would help build culture strategy and do workshops with executive teams. We did a lot of leadership training. And the message consistently, Jocelyn, was if you want to have a great place to work, leaders have to build it. It's how leaders show up, it's what leaders do, like leadership, leadership, leadership. And we realized about four years ago, with even our best clients, even organizations that had leaned in all the way to what we were doing, we that we were only able to, as better culture, to have a direct influence on maybe 15% of their employee base. It's just leaders, right? And anything else that happened, leaders had to take our content, take our ideas, take our tactics, and actually apply them to build a better workplace, to improve their team, to grow their people, et cetera. And that that makes sense. But we at least asked ourselves the question at that point. We said, huh, I wonder if it's also possible to build a better workplace culture from the ground up, from the bottom up, to go to every employee and say, what would it look like to be a leader from your position, from your role? Not to be promoted into some role, but to really create healthier teams via advice we're giving to every employee. And so we did set off on a big project and a big journey to sort of figure out kind of what would a universal set of core values be or attitudes and behaviors that would be a star employee in every company that we work with. And we ended up getting down to a list of in the neighborhood of 20 of these attitudes, these behaviors, these things that every organization we worked with said, oh yeah, if somebody does that, they're a star here. And to the one final piece before we sort of finalized this philosophy in this list is as we were doing that, the in a really interesting thing happened. We found, of course, data that said this is good for teams and good for cultures, these, these, these what became our 2010ths. But what we didn't expect was we also found data that said if people will learn these skills, it's just good for them. It they will be more happy and they will be more successful in their lives. Forget team, forget company culture. And so before we finalized this list, we said, look, nothing can make this list if we can't go directly to employees and say, we hope you want to do this for your company, we hope you want to do this for your team. But if you don't, if you work on these 20 skills, it'll just make you more happy and more successful. And when once we got that clarity, we ended up winnowing down this listing to 20 that we are so excited about because we know it can change both people's lives and teams and companies.

SPEAKER_05:

So can you tell us about this platform assessment that you're using right now and and how it works?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. So 20 are 20 tenants of culture, better cultures 20 tenants, is first a philosophy, which is culture can be built from the bottom up. Okay. And I just explained what that philosophy is that you can empower everybody with these skills. So it's first a philosophy. It's second, a set of tools. And when when we asked ourselves, I know you guys are learning and development experts, we asked ourselves, okay, if you want to encourage a certain set of attitudes and behaviors, what does an actual process for that look like? It should start with someone understanding that this is in their own self-interest. Then it should move towards some form of self-assessment or reflection. And so we have assessment content and videos so so people can self-assess themselves on each of these things. It then should have growth tools. So we have coaching content, discussion guides, all sorts of things you can do with a team or as an individual if you want to make progress on any of these 20 things. And activities, all sorts of fun things that we can give leaders who care about culture. If we say, Would you like your employees to show up more like this? Okay, here's a process and a set of tools you can use to do that. So that's second, is it's a set of tools. And third, really only for organizations that want to go all in on this concept, we've baked all those tools into a software. Software product into a system that takes the lift off of leaders and helps them make sure that there's consistent conversation going on across their whole organization. Every employee gets to participate on these 20 things that will help them build a stronger and healthier culture with lower effort than if an internal training team or leaders themselves had to take a lot of this lift on. Our software product lets people self-assess, pick two things they want to focus on, get content dripped to them. And it and over the course of a campaign year, the whole organization is getting coaching content on these things.

SPEAKER_05:

Excellent. I was reviewing your website and looking at some of this information. First of all, I love your website.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05:

It's excellent. Matter of fact, we are redoing our website and we we love some aspects. So we we might steal some from you. Hey, feel free. Anything I can do. No, I just I love the the the case studies that you that you have. I love there's there's just some some elements we we look at tons of websites, but when your company reached out to Liza Hare, who manages the the podcast, she's like, check out this website. So not only did we love the the topic and what you do, but you have a lot of good design elements. So I I know part of this whole assessment, there's I think it's like four-minute videos, right? That you have a bunch that that the employee keeps on looking at to like reinforce. Do you ever find that the people that might not be the right culture fit are people that are actually not participating? And can can you use that as why why doesn't Susie want to participate in this program? Does that ever like lead people out or you probably could?

SPEAKER_00:

I've not ever really looked at it that way. Okay. What what we encourage our clients to do is the name of our company is Better Culture. And we want to give people both tools and the energy to make their organization better. And so every day, lots of little things that add up to big progress over time. And so the way I think about this is I give a team, a leader, an organization, a set of tools, and I hope that everybody wants to use those tools. I hope everybody wants to show up to the to the education sessions, wants to be in our product, but I know that's not going to happen. And so what actually happens is 50, 60, 70% of people are actively engaged with what we do. They're using our stuff, they're making progress. What we ask managers to do, and you can use this outside of our stuff, by the way, what managers need to do is ask people, what are you doing with the product? What things are you working on? What, what, what, what resonates with you, what doesn't resonate with you, and incorporate these growth-oriented conversations into one-on-ones or into performance conversations. And obviously, if you have one set of employees that's showing up with high energy, showing that they've done work, that they've self-reflected, that they know where they're strong, that they know where they're weak, that they're making progress, they're working on things, that's that's a great indicator of somebody that you want to keep investing in and to see grow. If you have somebody that doesn't do the work, doesn't care, doesn't take an interest, doesn't engage. For me, because I'm so big on protecting cultures and helping them get continuously better, I just need to know who do I want to keep investing in and who who is what what what things can I find that show me someone's not a fit? And I work with, I want to save everybody. I want people to do well, I want to invest in everyone. I want to try to, I'll work really hard to get everybody to to grow and to be a team player, etc. But if you're showing me that I'm putting more effort into this than you are, that's a signal that you're you may not be long for this team or this organization if I can help it. No, that sounds harsh, but it's not a good idea. No, no, I know. It's true.

SPEAKER_05:

It's the it's reality.

SPEAKER_06:

It and it's kind of what I said earlier where I was like, was aggressive the right word for what I what you call culture killers, like because it even if it is seen that way, like, oh wow, that's harsh. That's the reality of protecting the culture and the environment that you want. And it's not to say that anybody's a bad person either. I think like like let's not get confused with that. No, that we're not like this is not we're not hunting anybody down, we're just saying this this isn't right for you. But there are plenty more out there with as one door closes, another one opens, right? Like things, things of that nature. And I that's not lost on on us, absolutely, when you say that. So, but getting back to things like because I was looking at your website too. So, like case studies and and the information, give it to us straight, Brett. Okay. Where have you seen, or can you give us an example of an organization that has applied the tenants to turn around their culture and and how a little bit about their journey? What did they address and how how did they make the shift stick?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I won't tell you the story of one specific organization, but I'll highlight a couple things that that several different organizations have done really well. So I think first and foremost is letting employees know that the company's investing in them, that the company wants them to be successful. And I don't think that should be overlooked. That the the part of our product of this 2010's messaging that I get the most excited about is that it's not a culture initiative. I mean, it is, right? Like that it is a culture initiative, but it's really a personal development initiative. It's something that people can lean into because they want to. Okay. And I think the organizations that communicate in that way and message in a way that says, look, we're making this investment in you versus, hey, we're making some, we're doing some team building thing, right? If you message it and you can say, hey, this is a this is a way that we're helping you progress your skills, your career, et cetera, that really does change the way people engage with something versus saying, hey, we're sending you to a training about something. And so positioning this or any other development that you're doing as an investment in people makes a difference in how people feel about their company. So that's that's number one. Number two, I think you make it yours, right? So we have these 20 tenants and they're things like be coachable, be kind, be we have our own terminology, address unspeakables and show restraint in certain situations, all these things. But really, the organizations that get the most out of it are the ones that they look at that list and they go, oh, these seven, that's us, right? And they really lean into that. They have fun with it, they create signage, or they do extra things, or the executives get on board, or they do they do stuff to really lean into. And you don't have to do all 20 if you don't want, but the ones that are uniquely you, you have fun with, you celebrate, you celebrate rock stars. I mean, people that live these values, if you can help them feel great and send them home with a big smile for being who they are, all of these things help tilt the culture in in favor of your stars and away from those vacuums, away from those culture killers. And so what I what I love to see is leadership development, like learning and development teams or leadership teams that put their own unique energy and spin on top of what we built because those are the organizations that really make the most progress. Now, our stuff on autopilot can do some for you. But if you're not saying, well, this is really important to us and this one, yeah, it's interesting, but it's not where we're gonna put all of our energy. Those are the organizations that make the most progress.

SPEAKER_05:

So, does your assessment have a way to recognize and acknowledge the top people that are promoting this culture that you want to have? Is it like, okay, congratulations, Jocelyn? You did such a great job in doing this today.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what we do with the way we build our platform is people's data is is uh somewhat private. Like what you'd rate yourself and what you choose to work on is just for you. Now we but we encourage people to share that with their teams and their leaders, but they don't have to. What we the way that we encourage organizations to highlight their stars is really through conversation and discussion. So if you use the enterprise version of this software, every two you'll start with a full self-assessment, and then every two weeks, you get a different coaching video gets distributed to the whole organization. And we provide every organization, every employee through our platform with discussion guides that you can have conversation about these things with your team, right? So a manager or a culture champion every two weeks can grab it and say, Hey, did everybody watch the coaching video this week? Is there anybody who chose that as one of their focus areas that they're working on? If so, what are you trying? What's working? Hey, by the way, who on our team is fantastic at this? Who can we spotlight, or who across the organization is fantastic at this? And so it's really, it's not the platform itself that spotlights who's a superstar. It's really through conversation, who lives these values, who is fantastic at this, and how can we celebrate them and make them really a cultural role model, et cetera? And some organizations build that into company-wide awards and recognition and things that happen at at stand-ups and at company-wide conversations. Other organizations just do it at a team level, but either way, it has a really big impact if every two weeks at a minimum you're talking about someone in your organization or on your team who's who's really living a certain attitude or behavior that that's that's improving the workplace for everybody.

SPEAKER_05:

I love it. So do you ever run into a situation where, and I I guess this would be uh somewhat toxic culture, where somebody says, Oh, so-and-so's just trying to kiss up. So I give give me more context on that if you could. I don't know. Like if I say congratulations to Lori, she's done an amazing job. Always being helpful and working with others. Sure. It it's it yes, well, so it's interesting because I could look at some employees in the past that when we did that would look at, well, why wasn't I acknowledged? And it actually would become a negative thing.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah. So two points.

SPEAKER_05:

It's interesting, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a good question. Here's my take, and I have to see if I can remember. So first and foremost, I think you cannot overdo praise and appreciation in an organization as long as it's genuine. So if you have individuals that are manufacturing things or that are just saying things to say things, that's an issue in and of itself. But as long as people really mean it, like yeah, Janet is a superstar at this, and I really appreciate it, then I don't think you can overdo that. I I think as long as as as you're genuine in your praise, you can't overdo it. And so if you have individuals on your team that most of the time they just won't talk, they won't participate, it's very rare that they're gonna participate but be disingenuous. That I don't see that as often. If it was, I think that would be its own issue, but it I think that's relatively unlikely. So that represents an opportunity in and of itself, okay? So, tenant number one, the number one thing, and we haven't talked about this one yet, I don't think, is being coachable. Okay. And if you want to create an environment where you're coaching people and helping them improve, you've got to have people that are coachable. And when someone comes to you and says, why don't I get recognized? Why does he or she get all the credit? That is a fantastic coaching opportunity for you to lean into and say, Oh my goodness, I would love to be praising you. I would love to be spotlighting you. Here's a few things that if you will work on, I think you can get there, right? And so I that is that that's the difference between honestly treating everyone the same and treating everyone fairly, right? And if I have an employee that's giving me 500% of the impact on culture in a positive way, and another person that's negative, that's cynical, that that always rolls their eyes, that's always second guessing, I I'm sorry, I don't have a lot to spotlight you on, but I'd love to help you pick a few of these you're working on. And if you make progress, I will praise the heck out of that, right? If it's like, wow, I can really see you're working on assuming positive intent, or you're working on doing less gossip, or you're working on having more friendly friction, right? Being able to be disag to disagree without being disagreeable, or whatever the things we're working on. If someone will show me that they're open to being coachable and that they're working on it, I'll praise 10% progress for someone that's really struggling. That'd be awesome. I'd love to spotlight that. As long as they're trying to get better. But if they're just complaining that someone else is getting recognized and they're not, that's that's a great coaching opportunity to really say, okay, what would it take for you to get that same recognition, that same opportunity? Let's work on that. So I love it when people complain about not getting recognized like somebody else. I think it's really an opportunity to have a conversation with that person.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes, I agree. And I think you make kind of like soft jokes about it where it's like not everybody gets a trophy, uh, but you can, but you can achieve really great things. And they and going back to like what you said, as long as it's genuine, I think if you do it just to support that person and their feelings through it, then like the rest of it kind of becomes a moot point for when it's it's a reality for other other people. So it all just kind of it weaves together. So, in closing for this, Brett, what advice would you have for organizations looking to get started addressing culture-killing behaviors that may exist? Reviewing this list, they might come up with a couple things that, oh yeah, that happens here. What would you say is a great first step to take, no matter what it is that they're acknowledging, but that change is necessary?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, a great first step to take would be we created a free resource probably two months ago. It's a new resource, and I've I want to make it available to your listeners, anybody that's just curious about what the heck is Brett talking about, what are these 20 tenants and wants to learn more about it and wants to see the type of assessment that we do, the type of coaching that we do. We've created a free resource that's called our Culture Kickstarter pack that is for two of these 20 tenants, it's everything, it's everything we do, it's and it's all available just for free. And it essentially lets you do sort of two really robust team building sort of exercises completely for free. And so I would love to make that available to anybody listening to just give it a try. And so I've created a custom landing page at betterculture.com forward slash bring out the talent. And I'm sure you guys can make that available in a link somewhere for people to find it. That's really a great place to start, and I don't have a better recommendation than that.

SPEAKER_06:

That's fantastic, Brett. Thank you. Yes, and we can take that link and put it in the show notes and get it distributed so that people can take a look at this list that we keep talking about that we're so excited about, that will definitely make an impact, I think, on anybody who even reads number one. So let's get on to the other aspect of our business, Brett, which is it might not be 20 tenants, but it is 10 questions. So let's go to the TTA 10. Day, Brad.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the TTA 10, 10 final questions for our guest.

SPEAKER_06:

All right, Brett. So we went over this at the beginning, the TTA 10. I'm gonna ask you 10 more playful questions. Get a little bit of a get to know you, answer the first thing that comes to your mind because that's what makes it more fun. And at the end, we will celebrate your achievements with a little little something from David. I don't even know what to call it anymore, David. So a little salute. There we go. That's a great word. So before I get to the 10, one question, Brett. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right, David. Let's rock and roll. TTA 10 clock, please.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, here we go. The TTA 10. 90 seconds on the clock starts. Now.

SPEAKER_06:

All right, Brett. Who would you say is the best cast member of SNL?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh boy. Chris Farley.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

What do you listen to like go to in the car?

SPEAKER_00:

Talk radio.

SPEAKER_06:

What was your favorite Saturday morning cartoon growing up?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh boy. Was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles ever on Saturday? That's what I'm gonna go with.

SPEAKER_06:

Sure, absolutely. What's the best candy bar of all time?

SPEAKER_00:

Snickers. I'm straight into the point. I I love a Snickers.

SPEAKER_06:

What about the best vegetable? Vegetable bag?

SPEAKER_00:

No, there's a lot of good vegetables. I'll just go broccoli. I know. Counterintuitive.

SPEAKER_06:

Who is besides you? Who's your favorite person named Brett?

SPEAKER_00:

Seriously? I have no idea. Um Brett is an awesome training professional. Brett Hicks, who I've worked with, she is fantastic.

SPEAKER_06:

Love that. What's the perfect temperature on a summer day?

SPEAKER_00:

58.

SPEAKER_06:

I agree. I like it. Cool. Yeah, same here. What's the worst concert you ever attended?

SPEAKER_00:

Worst concert? Oh boy. Probably, I'm not gonna name which kid, but one of my kids' little chorus acts up at school or something like that. I don't go to a lot of big time concerts.

SPEAKER_06:

What's six plus two?

SPEAKER_00:

Eight.

SPEAKER_06:

And what who is the most impressive person you've ever met from Omaha, Nebraska?

SPEAKER_00:

These are hard questions. Your dad. Yeah, I guess I yeah, I can't say that one. That'd be too hard. Let's see. I don't know. I've been at a table next to Warren Buffett, so I'll say that.

SPEAKER_06:

Oh, okay. I will dig that. Absolutely. Well, there's our 10. David, give us the verdict, please.

SPEAKER_01:

Calculating now. And Brett comes in at one minute and 28 seconds. No way.

SPEAKER_05:

I think you were cheating, David. The clock may have stopped a couple times.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's uh we do have a salute for Brett. It is musical, and I hope it speaks to Omaha and uh perhaps his native University of you went to UK, right? University of Kansas.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know if that's University K U, we say it.

SPEAKER_01:

K U, sorry, but yeah. Of course, K U. And uh let's roll it.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, he started down in Lawrence with a civil mind, built his dreams in crimson and that J-Haw kind, headed north to Omaha. With the fire in his soul, turned his compass toward culture, and he found his role. Now he's leading like a storm on a Nebraska night, turning more rooms bright with that better cultured life. With a smile like sunshine and a trembling crew. He's a husband, a daddy, and a dreamer too. He sets the toe. Red Hood Greens building better days. Stolen by the stone. Stolen by the stone. He was the youngest on the 16 breaking mold. That you cloud were the best. Stories unfold. Five times 10. One place to be. We're healing at home. And culture ran free. He don't just talk, he gets folks to believe. In a life where good leaders help people cheat. With a mic in his hand and a crown on his feet. He's teaching success with the rhythm and be your kids are gonna love this song, Brad.

SPEAKER_05:

You need to play it all day.

SPEAKER_03:

One culture at a time.

SPEAKER_00:

Is very impressive.

SPEAKER_04:

That's your new theme song whenever you walk into a keynote speaking engagement.

SPEAKER_00:

I like it. That's so impressive. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you, David. Good work. Thank you so much, Brett. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I know we didn't have a lot of time. We could go on forever, and we'd love to have you back in the future.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, I'm super interested in what you guys are up to, and I just appreciate you inviting me on to talk about this topic.

SPEAKER_05:

Absolutely love to learn more about this.

SPEAKER_06:

For more information on building a culture of teaching and learning in your organization, visit us at the Training Associates.com. We'll see you later.