Ben: 0:31

Everybody, welcome to another edition of Winter River Wednesday. The stories, the tribulations, the trials, and just how we make it to where we are today. And March, if you're not aware, is the Colorectal Cancer Awareness Month. And we thought it'd be very fitting for us to kind of switch it up and instead of Matt interviewing someone to be the interviewee, because it is very keen to his story. And so with that, I would really like for Matt to dive in and tell us the story of how he ended up helping and hosting this uh widower, solo dad, podcast, Facebook group, instapage, all the things. Uh unfortunately, we're here doing this, but like, how did how did you get here, Matt?

Matt: 1:29

Well, I took a left turn in Albuquerque, as Bunny used to say, not old enough to know where that came from. Um, it is cool, it is colour rectal awareness month, the month of March, which in the irony or in the synchronicity or whatever of the universe, my wife, Marcy, uh, her birthday is March 17th. So thanks for picking that up, Marce. Uh, St. Patrick's Day. Yeah. So born in, you know, in and on Colo rectal awareness month. Um, quite literally, like the only month that we didn't have any significant events besides her birthday. Like our anniversary was at the end of February. Our big trips were always in April. So it's interesting how March is now this reserved space to just be dedicated uh to remembering or raising awareness of colorectal uh cancer. So my intro to widowhood was brought by uh that sounds horrible. Brought to you by uh I don't know about that. Yeah, if you can't laugh, you're gonna cry. Um, which by the way, I am quite literally 24 hours away from as we're recording this and you hear this. I just would have celebrated our sixth wedding anniversary, but we were only married for like uh two years. So it's a little weird, uh, but it's timely. Um, so I came into widowhood uh through colorectal uh cancer. Um my wife's cancer was discovered 86 days after the birth of our daughter Blair. Um she had had some gastineral intestinal issues. She used to say her trains weren't on time anymore. Um she was having some issues. And my wife also, I think we may have shared at one point, um, she had a she was in corporate finance, but she had also thought at one point about being a doctor before she went the financial route. And so she had like a pre-med kind of background. And so she was very well versed, like talking to doctors in general. She had also done um medical billing and stuff. So it was kind of in her forte. And so um she was really having some problems. And I remember my very strong, very capable wife crying on the phone to a nurse saying, I gotta get in to get this checked out, like something's not right. So we go into a colonoscopy in November, and I sure people listening who've had anybody in the medical profession come in and have to deliver you some really bad news, there is a look on their face that you can't be duplicated, like you just know that something is not good. So they discovered a tumor, and I I should probably know better, but it was right on the cusp between being whether it was colon or rectal cancer, it was quite literally like right at an interchange. I don't know the right rate. Um, and so uh um what happened was uh then it was quick to the scans and everything, then uh um sorry, the the um after the uh colonoscopy, um she had like a reaction, so we actually wound up in the yard the same night. So keep in mind we have a 86-day old baby at home with grandma, right? During while all this is happening. And um, so then they run a bunch of tests. We're stuck in a hospital room. This is all pre-COVID, by the way, just to kind of set the scene. And another kind of when you reflect back and look at things happening, you go, Oh, that's why no one came into the room. So apparently the nurses told us later they couldn't come into the room because they were all young ladies, some with kids at home, some with not, and they couldn't come in the room seeing the test results and not lose it. And they had to wait till the doctors came in. So they told us that later because we were left alone in a room for like six hours.

SPEAKER_00: 5:08

Oh, really?

Matt: 5:09

Yeah, it was really weird. It was like they get did a bunch of scans in the morning, and we're just sitting in the it was like a doctor that was going to take her case was like in the city and they had to get back out to the Western Burbs or whatever it was. We weren't mad or anything. We're just like, I don't know, we're just there, but we knew this wasn't good. Like the when the doctor doing the colonoscopy is like, it's a tumor, and you need to go get a bunch of tests like right away. So you start hearing then the three doctors come in. So it's a key, it's a um uh oncologist, a general surgeon, because there's a bunch of stuff that needs to happen pretty quickly, and then there's the colorectal or the um the GI doctor. And um they basically start going through scans. You hear the words uh, you know, tumor, uh, metastasized, liver and lungs. And so quite quickly, you know, a bunch of medical things need to happen. Uh, because of her blockage, the best option was for her to get a um ostomy. Yeah, I have that right. An ostomy. Uh, and uh we named it Frank because it would just toot whenever it wanted to, like an old man in a diner. It's classic. And then oddly enough, we didn't know people named them. So she's at her GI doctor who has a uh nursing, uh nurse practitioner who has one. And we joked one time at an appointment. This is weird, but uh we go like, oh yeah, his name's Frank, because he just kind of toots, and she goes, I made mine like Agnes or something. I'm like, Of course you did. It's like an old lady name, anyway. So a little a little humor, but yeah, so uh chemo uh was working, uh, but there's really only kind of one treatment they really have uh that works really well. She didn't have any sort of crazy mutations or anything. Uh the metastizations were so numerous in the liver they stopped counting. Uh and so we were told that, you know, chemo will work, and it does. The question is for how long? And you hope your cancer is really dumb and it works for a long time. Unfortunately for us, it worked for about I think about maybe seven months, if I do my math right. Uh, and pretty much it was a pretty standard, like she would go get chemo on a Wednesday, get unplugged from the uh 5F 5FU pump, I think, uh, and be sick kind of all weekend and then go back to work on Monday because that's what she wanted to do. Uh, and that'd be about 10 days, and we'd go do it again if her numbers were good. And there's ups and downs with cancers. People probably listening know this. And again, back background noises we have like a six-month-old baby at home, and we have so um, and then basically a lot of things happen all kind of at once. So uh the tumor started to basically choke off the hylar area, I think I'm saying that right, in her liver. So that's basically where all the um uh ducts in the veins go from the like the gallbladder and stuff into the liver, and it was just choking it, it just was not doing well. So we did a stint procedure, and that was she had already started to like lose some pretty serious muscle mass. This would have been in, I want to say, like late August, early September. Um, and she really struggled to come out of sedation on that. Like it was scary, really scary. Like she did not want to wake up. And one of the most amazing liver surgeons in Chicago took a lot of time talking me through a lot of stuff. Again, reflection back. Only experience dealing with cancer, didn't realize how lucky we were to have some really great doctors that did not just treat her as another patient. Um, there were some really interesting, I don't want to say highlight, but some really big inflection points in her cancer journey that when you look back, you go like, oh, that wasn't normal. That doesn't happen to most people, unfortunately dealing with cancer. So she gets these liver stamps put in and again gets a little reprieve, but it was kind of a temporary solution. And then um our neighborhood was having a block party. I want to say it's Labor Day, so that I guess the the most of this the procedure must have been like late August then, right? Yeah. And she just wasn't feeling well, and so I had to get my other kid back to her mom's house. I come back, she still is not feeling well. It's like, well, we can't do anything from the house, we're gonna have to go to the hospital. And so this would have been probably mid mid to late September, it feels right, like September, probably 15th, 16th, somewhere around there, like labor day-ish. So we go in the hospital for a few days. And if you ever watch very capable, very good surgeons play volleyball with the options in your hospital room, it's probably not a good thing because none of them wanted to do the options they could offer. The liver surgeon didn't want to go back in and do the stints, and the the surgery team to do the gallbladder remover didn't want to do the gallbladder surgery because there's no guarantee, A, that you maybe wake up from uh the anesthesia, or B, you would even do anything for her. Oh, and so, right, and so you kind of watch these guys who are masters at their craft go like, we'll do it, but please, Lord God, know that we don't really know what that's gonna do because of her overall state of cancer and her health and everything. And the other thing that was very interesting was this is this is how obviously I cope with a little bit of humor. So I'm gonna take one quick little step back. So we're we're in Rush, which is a teaching hospital in outside of Chicago, in Chicago, outside Chicago, whatever by the United Center. Anyway, so we're at Rush Medical. And um, I am not making this up. So like we get checked in and we have all the doctors like call head, so we kind of get the fast lane through the ER because it's a Sunday night. That's just how you have to get admitted, right? Yeah, and so we get our own room, we get into the room, we get to the floor we're supposed to be and all this stuff, and it's whatever time by the time we settle, and as everyone knows, you can't really sleep if you're not the patient in the hospital because it's no place to sleep, it's all crappy. So I'm half asleep or whatever, have my two hours of sleep. And and I am not, I'm gonna exaggerate, but I am like we also want to say I'm not making this up. So at whatever times they make their rounds, right? 5 a.m. jerks in a teaching hospital, in walks, dreamy McDreamy, uh, like looking like the son of Thor, walks into our hospital room at like 5 05. I swear he had doves flying over him and he smelled like fresh baked bread. It he was the most good-looking doctor. I and I'm like, really? I probably had drool on me. I'm like, you need to just leave. Come to find out his recently married wife was the uh ER doctor that admitted my wife that time, but super nice guy, relatively younger for a doctor, again, teaching hospital. And when he saw, and I kind of told the surgery story first, when he saw her name getting pulled off of surgery, he came in, pulled me out, and he's crying. And he goes, They're pulling your name off the surgery slots. Oh my gosh. And I'm like, Yeah, dude, there's there's really nothing we can do. He goes, No, no, no, no, no, we've got to do something. And I'm like, You need to take a breath, man. There's we've there's there's really no options here. He's crying in the hospital uh hallway, and so because I think he's thinking about like if it was his wife, he's like, just tell me.

Ben: 12:26

And I'm like we're here to help people, and you can't tell me I can't help this person.

Matt: 12:29

And it's so it's really endearing, and there's there's some other stories in there too. Like, I think there was, I don't know why we were in rush, but Dr. Day Dana Hayden out of Rush, if you ever have any GI issues in the Chicago area, she's amazing. And um I'm pretty sure she's the one, and maybe the palliative team for a different for something else. I can't remember why we were in the you make somebody church hospital. I think they forced their students to stay in Marcy's room and talk to her at one point. Oh, really? Yeah, it was pretty powerful. Like all these young kids listening to this lady talk about having, you know, a just recently turned one-year-old at the house who was in corporate finance and quite literally 18 months ago was a healthy pregnant lady, and now is this. And I think it really in and it was pretty because like I came in back with a cup of coffee, whatever. I'm like, they're just talking to her, asking her questions, and she's just sharing life. And so I'm like, that's you know, one of the good things of the teaching hospital. Bad things is you get five, 30-year-olds staring at you like you're weird. But so, so go back to the doctor in the hallway, and I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I think we're kind of there. We were also very fortunate that the nurse that was in charge of her had quite literally just months before stopped being a home hospice nurse, right? Oh and was now back in the hospital. And so he was very informative about how things may go and how things may happen. So I go back into the room. These are one of these like defining moments. This is this was how uh I I reserved I reserved my ticket into widowhood. Um, it's me, it's me and Mars in the room, and in her just inside of a year cancer journey, I cannot recall a time of her complaining. I cannot recall a time of her being really down or extraordinarily mad or sad beyond just like it's frustrating at times. Um, and so we're in the hospital room, and after kind of gathering the information from the doctors, and I'm I'm pretty sure it's just her and I, but there's there could have been my you know, my sister-in-law or something else could have been there. But I remember, and she was on a lot of pain nights too, but uh, I remember to make sure she was fully lucid and fully understood. And basically, like, so here's our options, like they do this, do that. And it's the first and only time she ever was like, I don't want to do this anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 14:57

I want to go home.

Matt: 14:58

And um, and we had talked about before, um, you know, if if she had a choice, um, that it would be at home, not at uh a hospital. And so um basically at that point you start making calls to hospice, which is God bless them, but what a shitty uh business model to have to have, right? And hospice has some amazing services, but that part of it of trying to figure out like who what nurse you're gonna have in your house as you go through this transition and and have someone um pass away, die. And so we basically made the decision. There's nothing really left to do. Also, um, so again, side note, called a couple of oncologists because at some point, I think, with her journey and how she handled it and who she was and her situation, it impacted people different ways. I got like cell phone numbers of doctors, I don't think you're usually supposed to get. And I remember being at the end of the hallway calling a couple, one of the top doctors at the University of Chicago, calling him, like on that night, I'll go, it's a Thursday night, at like six, going, like, here's the situation. And he said, Matt, if it was my wife, I'd go home. Take her. Wow. Yeah. So there was a couple of those inflection moments where you go, like, you look back and you go, like, oh, and then I as I share with other cancer journey people, I go like, oh, that was a little different, I guess. Hopefully, for the love of everything in the universe, I never have to do that again. Yeah, but it was definitely a little different. So we make the arrangements, uh, hospital ride home, get comfortable. And I don't know, I could probably figure out. But over the course of about three days, we probably had over 200 people come through the house and talk to her and spend time with her and and her be able to have conversations with them. And I think maybe in a few in a previous podcast, one of the phrases that we used a lot of times, knowing the stats of stage four for early colorectal cancer aren't great. Um that uh, you know, one of the things we used to say was uh say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done. Because like you, Ben, we had the opportunity to do so, right? Yeah. Um and um, or sorry, if I didn't say unlike Ben, sorry, uh we had, and not that it's a blessing, but it's an opportunity that you have to do some things that many people don't get to do. And so that so so that was that, and then um, so at home, and then basically uh uh the the I think the medical was that um her liver just just couldn't do it anymore, and so basically became liver failure and you know passes peacefully in in our home. Uh with just I was I think it was just me in the room at the time, but I mean after days of of talking to people and spending time with people. And so um yeah, so colorectal cancer is a real big jerk, and uh we should we should probably be more on top of it. Uh I think, and we were talking about this off the air real quick. Um I believe colorectal cancer will be this age bracket, gen, whatever we are, uh, and the one behind us, our breast cancer. I mean, it's like it grew two percent a year in people under 50 between 2007 and 2016. And I'm sure that number's still climbing. Right. And yeah, and the problem is is there's really no sim, I mean, there's some symptoms, and I can put we can post stuff show notes or whatever, but um, Marcy ate more salads than I did, ran more miles than I did, and was healthy and has zero family history. And um there's just not a lot of symptoms if you're not being a little more proactive. And so, yeah, I got to become a widow through colorectal cancer, and so it's it's near and dear to my heart, and I I get I have a newfound sympathy. I always get these two words mixed up. Empathy empathy for when people get real hot and bothered about a specific passion um of something, right? Because when it impacts your life so much, like I know lung cancer is bad, I know breast cancer exists, I know brain cancer is bad, but in my little world, I don't care. Like, this is the one that really pisses me off, right? Like I can fully, you know, I I get it, leukemia is not great either. Like, I'm not trying to stack rank any of them, but this one shattered my life. And so I get uh if you're following me on social media the month of March, you get if you're uncomfortable with butt stuff, then you may want to scroll on by and think of what I post today. So, yeah.

Ben: 19:57

Like if there was, I mean. Because like I said, it is growing every single year, and you see more and more reports of 30 somethings, 20 somethings, 40 somethings being in the stage for yeah. So, like for people that may be listening that are either potentially starting a journey or just interested, what are some things that you could say would be an advocate for people that they may know that are dealing with colon cancer, or some things that you might you wish you would have known going through it that you can share that might help someone else's experience with this.

Matt: 20:49

Um, let's start with the things during the journey because then there's things that anybody who, whether they're they have colon cancer in their lives or not, can can do. Um I think the first thing would be I I wish I would have done a better job of connecting. And you're so busy just managing being a caregiver, but I wish I would have done a little better job of connecting, and I did. Our friend Amanda's is how I know her, her husband had colorectal cancer as well. Um, with like caregivers in the moment, like while I was caregiving, because I didn't realize how much it was taking out of me until you stopped caregiving, you go, like, how did I pull that off? Like, and I just wish I would have talked to some other people because I I just didn't I didn't acknowledge what that was doing to me. Um I also, for those that if they are, there are some really amazing groups. We'll make sure we post them in the show notes, but there's like the Colo Rectal Alliance, there's Fight CRC, and then there's an online and only online on Facebook. It's a social group called Um, I think it's now called CON Town.

Ben: 22:06

Oh, yeah, yeah. COLINT Town. Okay.

Matt: 22:09

Yeah, CON Town. And it's got resources galore um on Facebook, and you can connect to local communities. You can also connect to like, hey, there's a liver section. So if you have questions about liver treatments, or hey, there's a question about um uh why am I my brain? Sorry, about uh yeah, um, about uh clinical trials. Hey there, listeners and my tribe of allies. Want to take just a moment to remind you how you can find the podcast. We are on all platforms. We're on Apple Podcasts, we're on Spotify, we're on Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Audible, and all the others. If you are listening on Apple Podcasts, please give us a feedback and give a review. It helps the podcast be found. If you're looking to find more solo dad content, we are on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter at SoloDad Podcast. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the show, or if you just want to email us with thoughts or topics you would like to hear us talk about, good old-fashioned email for us is solo dadpodcast at gmail.com. Thank you again for your support and listening, and we hope you find it helpful. Back to the conversation. The Facebook group, the Facebook groups, yeah. And then um I would also highly recommend, and we were real lucky. So there's a place called the Wellness House outside of Chicago, and it is, and I'm sure other communities have these, and so I would probably ask um a local oncologist, but like a I'll just call it a cancer house, and they could have different names, and usually all their services are free. You just have to have like an active cancer diagnosis. And that actually kicked off one of the dad's group I'm a part of now, but they had everything from like how to make like um meals that would help people who have like digestive issues with their chemo, or um, you know, how to properly, yeah, some people had to clean their own ports. So like they they have a bunch of resources that are all free because it's a not-for-profit. And almost every commun, every major community will probably have one somewhere. And I wish we would have tapped into that a little earlier just because they have a free library or they have books or they have classes or whatever that would have been nice to have known. I we really kind of found it kind of a little later. Um, but that would be my kind of three. One would be to connect with other caregivers as quickly as you can, especially as a guy. Um, you know, that it just you get you get kind of like double isolated, right? You're a guy giving care to your wife, which normally the roles are typically reversed, right? And then and then you there's not a lot of the guys doing this. And and again, going back to our neighbors and my friends did an amazing job helping me and supporting me in every way they could, but they weren't a caregiver. So I there was questions I had about like, you know, how to how to do this at night, or what should I do when this happens with her ostomy, or what should and so it just would have been good to have uh someone that was kind of had walked it or walked it before. So again, you know, these these online groups are great, and then uh finding different communities online, whatever the the dot org and the nonprofit is, they're all just nuanced a little differently. So I don't want to say like the American Cancer Society is good and fight CRC is bad, or vice versa. You're just gonna find your people that you vibe with in those different areas. So I would say find an online one and then um uh the last the the the last one is um that specifically with colon cancer is called I think uh I I think they call it Pal Town now. Um because it was some no, it's colon town. It used to be pal town, it's now colon town. That's what it is. Oh, okay. That's what it is. So colon town on Facebook for anyone that's listening. So that's what you can do is if in your if you're in the cancer journey, because there are clinical trials, there are um different things. You can start like getting your name on list and stuff, and you can find people that are maybe a couple of months down your cancer journey and they may have some insights. And I was just thinking about this uh as I had to step away for a second, is that um we used to say this a lot, and it's true, everyone's cancer is different, and everyone's cancer is different. A little journey is a little different. Marcy and I made like a pinky promise not to look at statistics. I think I can readily admit now for almost four years out of her passing away. I looked. Do you think that's I'm sure she did too? And it's um it's not great, but those are statistics, right? And you're a statistic of one. And there is an amazing woman, her name's Carol, I think. I'm now also my brain just froze, who's one of the few people who's able to get a liver transplant, and she is crushing it in life and for raising awareness in colon cancer. And um, and she's still kicking, I think it's probably been 10 years. Um, and so not everyone's the same. And and so I don't want anyone to be disheartened if they hear this in their stage four colorectal cancer, or they have a partner or someone that is that that's not true for everybody. And and but in young in the under 50 crowd, it sure seems that it there's not a lot of stage ones or twos, and it and it moves and it moves fast. And unfortunately, colorectal cancer likes to go to the liver and the lungs. So those are two things that are a little rough to to not live with.

Ben: 27:58

Yeah, it makes it a little bit difficult. Yeah. What going through this process of caretaking, discovery, new fatherhood, transitioning over? I mean, that is a lot at once. And and like going through that and and dealing with your grief, what has it taught you about yourself with regards to how you've handled the grief and still been able to initially like right out of the gate, she was 13 months, right?

Matt: 28:37

Uh yeah, same as yeah, you and you that's how you and I have that similarity with your yeah.

Ben: 28:41

And so, like, how like how do you find that you've been able to do both and and um keep addressing everything?

Matt: 28:52

Well, first I I think credit goes to my family, like so you know, I'm very lucky to have um in-laws that were were and are super supportive, um, and showed up and put up and did all the things that um needed to be done. Uh, I we were lucky enough also to have the support of my mom actually living with us during the whole process. So that was an unbelievable godsend to have both of the grandmas basically, if we wanted to run down to MD Anderson in Houston um to get a second opinion on a random week, we could, and we didn't have a worry about it. So I think to just recognize that I had some resources availability to me that maybe not everybody has, um, that helps, right? There's some there's some uh partner lifting there for sure, or team lifting. Um I think right now, looking back, so I am it'll be four years in September, so I'm three and a half plus years-ish, right?

SPEAKER_02: 30:01

I think this, I hope this resonates with people. I don't think I started to actually grieve. Probably until I'm gonna have to do this out loud.

Matt: 30:15

September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May-ish. So about eight months after she died. Because there's so much for us in our relationship. Our first date was in October, my birthday's in October, like all these milestones. We got engaged in May, took trips in April, like, or excuse me, got engaged at the end of March, took trips in April. So there's all these milestones. So it's just this massive amount of like melancholy, and I'm just kind of numb, right? You just kind of walk around. The joke I tell people is like if the Facebook memories came back and said, Hey, it looks like you had a great trip to the Maldives in February of 20 uh 19, I'd be like, Yeah, sure, I have no, I have no like, I cannot even recall. I don't even know where we were for that Christmas. I mean, I can figure it out, but right now I couldn't tell you. Yeah. So I think the first thing was is I didn't, I think if I if I'm being a hundred percent honest, I just didn't. Uh partly because again, I had resources that were handling helping me handle the day to day, and I could kind of fake it. Like I could just be like, yeah, I'm gonna go to the gym today, and I'm gonna take care of my daughter, and we're gonna clean the house and we're gonna play. And and I think then summer kind of hit, and we get close to Blair's birthday, and I think then it kind of started to settle in, like, oh, this is becoming my real life. This is for real, real. Like, this isn't, yeah, yeah. And so I think one thing it taught me is I might have the ability to delay things in not, I want to say an unhealthy way, but maybe to postpone it longer than I should. Um, and so one of the things I'm currently working on, and again, I've kind of picked grief back up again, which we've talked about in the podcast where with the move and things and COVID and blah, blah, blah. But that, and someone else threw this quote back to me as well, which is uh grief's gonna find a way to be acknowledged one way or the other, whether it's through unhealthy life decisions, uh irrational spending, whatever your jam is to not recognize it, going down a craft beer collection aisle. I don't know, like whatever it is, I'm gonna no, no, no judging. Um, but it's gonna find its way. And I think what I've realized is I was also, and again, up until kind of recently, I was avoiding the pain because I didn't want to hurt. Because even just recalling, there's another part, and I was thinking about this when I step again, when I had to step away, there's another part of the story, is is she's passing. This is something um that I don't know if anyone else was in the room, but basically, uh one of the last things I said to her was I don't what'd I say it?

SPEAKER_02: 33:14

Um wherever you're going, when you get there, ask them why.

Matt: 33:22

Um, because it doesn't make any sense. Um the men in my family are typically uh uh uh gone way earlier than most. And so we used to joke it'd be me, right? And it just didn't make any sense, right? And I think pausing it and taught you saying top me about myself, and and it and then I realized that was a huge magnifying glass into kind of a lot of other things in life where it'd be like, Oh, I dealt with that, I'm okay now. Well, you might be okay, but I don't think you finished dealing with it, yeah. Right? Like whether you know unresolved bullying issue from high school, I don't know, but you're right, like I'm like, oh, I there's a level of completion emotionally with some things that I probably need to do. And I think the other thing that it taught me was after kind of the concussion fog went away, that for me personally, and I and we do discuss this, I think, quite a bit, and I'm a big fan of using some different words. But whether you want to call it routine, you want to call it support structure, you want to call it uh mitigating chaos, whatever it is, for me personally, that is huge because it allows me that if A, B, and C are dealt with, I know that I can go work on grief. I'm using air quotes in these moments. The Blair's taken care of, my daughter, Samantha's taken care of, you know, kiddos taken care of, uh, groceries have been delivered. And so on Tuesdays, there's a time spot that I can sit and be with it, whatever that means, whether it's processing pictures or if it's you know just thinking about the good times or asking myself, you know, would Marcy want me to give Blair piano lessons this year. I'm just making someone up, right? To reflect on it because if you don't, the minutia of life just carries you down the road in a very healthy way, it's not necessarily bad, but you haven't taken the time to kind of honor the space that was something so important. And so I think for me, doing not like so structured that it's unflexible, but just knowing certain things are taken care of, and there's a rhythm to that. And in that rhythm, there's space to be emotional and grieve and recognize. You know, I mean, we sat and watched, um Blair and I sat and watched our little wedding video thing the other night, and it was, I'm you know, crying on the chair with her, and she's like, Are you sad? I said a little, but I'm also happy. It was a hell of a wedding. It was a damn good time. It was amazing. And so you remember the good, but at the same time sad that it was much shorter than anyone would have anticipated. And so I think that's the the big thing that I think it did teach me was that I personally can seem to do a good job of faking myself out, being like, look, my garage is organized and I'm out playing golf and I'm at the gym and I'm doing all these things. Yet I haven't sat and given myself the the area to cry and be emotional. And I don't, I don't know. I it may I crying in front of other people is really hard to do. And so it seems to be, and I'm thinking as I'm talking and thinking, it seems to be that if I give myself the space to do it alone, I can do it if I need to. Yeah, just even crying in front of my four-year-old is hard. Like I, you know, and like I don't want to fight back the tears and not do it, but at the same time, I'm like, it just, you know what I mean? It's like because then I don't know if it's you don't want to make someone else sad. So I think that's the the three, the kind of the couple of things that taught me for sure. Um, was that, and then uh I we mentioned it a lot, man. I was also had the luxury uh to have some self-care in there. I really did. Like, I mean, I was like getting, you know, I was getting a massage like every other week, you know. I was able to mention the gym. I was able to, you know, my mom and mother-in-law watched Blair, and I was able to take like a couple of little trips here and there. So that you know, I was able to to really take care of myself, where I also recognize not everybody has that. I mean, I was just reading someone the other day, it was like two weeks after the wife passed away. They had to go back to work full-time. I'm like, how do you have no idea? And if you're and if eight, if let's just go 50 hours a year a week working, just working, and you've got a kid at home, how many hours do you really have to like process the greed? How how long is it gonna take you? How many years of one hour a week is it gonna take you to process that without breaking? Like I don't there's not there's no formula, but that's kind of you know, if you need a hundred hours of crying and you only get one a week. That takes a minute, it's gonna take a bit. Yeah, yeah.

Ben: 38:24

I'm not saying to cry for a hundred straight hours, but I mean, it's having a good cry is always really nice. It is any uh I don't like and it's always anytime you have a situation like this, um any massive traumatic event, it changes you drastically. Is there anything that you've noticed that um you've seen as far as a drastic change?

Matt: 38:51

Maybe besides besides the I haven't got my hair shaving my beard in four years. Um, I don't know what you're talking about. Uh that's not true. It's been like three. Um there's a picture floating out there somewhere of my like my last haircut.

SPEAKER_02: 39:07

Um I think there's a couple of things, and one of them there's probably a whole bunch. Let's start with the the good. You have a I've had grief in my life since I was eleven. This one made me quite literally reflect and own how precious precious every day we have it. And just how blessed we can be if, and my wife taught me this too if we start from a place.

Matt: 40:00

Gratitude. Like I I mean I kind of knew it, but I really believe it now because I am so grateful that I got to meet my wife. And I'm so grateful that we got to spend the time we did together.

SPEAKER_02: 40:18

And that doesn't change my gratitude for that. It doesn't change after she died. I'm not less grateful. I think that it really and I'm not perfect at this.

Matt: 40:32

I want to make sure I'm really clear that flipping the cell phone upside down at the dinner table means a lot more to me now than it used to.

SPEAKER_02: 40:41

A lot more.

Matt: 40:44

Um because you know, we on the surface two healthy people starting a family in their 30s, one infinitely more successful than another. That'd be her over me, and just for the record. Uh and we had a lifetime. We were gonna have a lifetime to do this. And that's not what happened. And so I think it just that that's one big one. The other one that is I don't it toned the it was it's it's coming back, but it really turned the volume down like the peak, like the peak. Not that there was less of it, it just didn't seem happy. Seemed way harder, and levity seemed way more difficult to achieve post than it ever had before. Sad was still the same, like I didn't feel like I could get more sad. Like sad was always this as far as sad as you can get. There's no more sadder than I've been, and this is sad, but it just seemed really hard. Like whether it was something my daughter does or hanging out with friends, and it was like, wow, I didn't realize how happy I had been prior to this whole thing happening, and so it was kind of that, and it's it's coming back, but it's even things like the shows I used to like. I'm like, eh, the you're right, the you know, whatever the stand-up comic that used to think it was hilarious. I'm like, eh, like what do they know? So it's coming back, but we're talking three years later, right? And I mean, it's not my, I mean, we've hung out, and I'm not like Debbie Downer all the time, but it's just kind of it's just kind of weird. Like, it's like someone told you you can't have salt in your diet, and everything tastes kind of blah, right? I don't know, that's kind of how it works. So I think those are some things I've learned about myself. I think the other thing, so if for anyone listening that is on the other side of giving care to a terminal person, whether it's been one week, one year, or 10 years, you did the possible in the impossible.

SPEAKER_02: 42:53

I mean, it is so hard to do.

Matt: 42:57

And yet, however many moments you are past it happening, you did it. I mean, I have some I have some regrets that I'm like, you know, even though I got Marcy's blessing to go check it out and play video games in the basement, I'm like, I should have rubbed her feet one more time, right? Like, there's always gonna be those. That doesn't, that's not gonna change for anybody that has a soul inside of them that was caring about somebody that they loved. Um but you did it and you're still here. And if you have kids, they're fed, they have a roof over their head, your heart's still beating, their heart's still beating. Like it's because I think we just get as caregivers and as men, we and I'm I can only speak from a male perspective because that's who I am. Um, I think we just kind of do, right? Like, oh, she has cancer. Okay, so what do we do? Okay, we do that, okay. Let's do that now. We're gonna do that now. That's what I'm gonna do now. Okay. And then it ends, and you go, like, well, now I guess I'm gonna take care of a 13-month-old how uh just okay. So I and we have our ups and downs, but I think taking a minute to reflect that, like, you're pretty goddamn badass for doing that. Because I'm willing to bet if you look at anyone outside of this connection, this hub, there's not a lot of people who have done it.

SPEAKER_02: 44:22

Right?

Matt: 44:23

Not yet in our age bracket. You might start having to take care of a parent detailing, maybe, but that's a little different, right? Um, and mad respect to people who do, but and and if you have done it, awesome. You you watched one of the people who've been in your life since the day you were born, uh-huh, right, pass, and that had to be really difficult. And I do not look forward to doing that anytime soon. But I think that's the other thing, too. It's like take a little bit of a moment and give yourself a pat on the back, but not too much, because if rotator cuff surgery is anything like Achilles surgery, stretch before you pat yourself on the back. Because this thing sucks. Um I think, but right? I mean, because I think sometimes, I mean, even like, you know, Ben, I mean, you and I joke about it. I don't know when was the last time we joked about on the podcast, but like, you know, oh Jesus, Ben, like I had to go get Blair from daycare, and then take her to swim, and then I had to take her to lunch, and then we came home and we played, and then I had to cook her dinner, and then I had to put just her down so hard, Ben. You have no oh shit. Ben has three, so I'm gonna shut the hell up. It's not like I'm gonna lie, I get it, but right, like like if if like if Ben can do it, god damn it.

Ben: 45:42

Can do it too. Yes, you can. Yes, I can.

Matt: 45:46

And just to the person who has four, well, you're just so much better at a person I want. Uh so I I think, but I think sometimes we forget to do that. Like we'll get proud of a lot of things, but I I think be proud that you've done this thing that is it's a low statistic, man. It's there's not a lot of us of widows before the age of 50. So um, yeah, I think those would be the three kind of big things that I, you know, that I kind of learned about myself. And I, you know, that and I think one thing that um I was lying to myself about was uh like your definition of healthy, right? Like I thought I was pretty healthy. Like, I'm healthy. And then when this happens, you go, Oh, I should probably be significantly more healthy because now it's just me. And now all of a sudden, my like C plus B minus grade for health turned into like a failing. I'm like, oh, I gotta be healthy. So, like some lies kind of when this shock happens, some things you've told yourself that are okay because someone loves me and I'm married and we're good and we're fat, dumb, and happy. And you go, like, oh, maybe I should. So there's a couple of things that you know, and I think the other one of like lying to myself that I'm okay. And again, I hope I have the right author that it's okay not to be okay. Actually, I'm not okay, and that's fine too. Yeah, right. Like it's it's all right.

SPEAKER_02: 47:12

So yeah.

Ben: 47:15

Well, if if you don't have any parting words, uh I the only the I think the only I just want to rattle off a couple of things about colorectal cancer.

Matt: 47:26

Yeah, specifically. Yeah, yeah. And um, first I would put a little caveat that I think these numbers are a little dated. Um I'm sure they're probably due to COVID and some other stuff. They're probably coming out with some new ones because it seems like there's a there's a pause, like they don't seem like they've come out with some for a bit. But um, you know, I mentioned before early onset, which is before the age of 50, uh colorectal cancer diagnosis grew 2% every year between 2007, 2016. Um one in 23 men will be affected by it, one in 25 females will be affected by it, regardless of a bracket, age bracket. Over 150,000 new cases will be diagnosed in 2022. Right. And um, it is this is the one that I really think people need to hear, which is it is the second leading cause of cancer death in men and women combined in the US. And I think it's second only to lung cancer. And so it's serious, like it's the real deal. And so if that hasn't scared you already, so then you ask, like, well, how if there's no symptoms, what can I do? So they moved the age for starting to screen for it. So there's a difference. I'm gonna use some medical vernacular. There's screening tests and diagnostic tests. A screening test, and they just had this golf tournament. If you pay attention, it's always the end of February. It's the Colin Guard classic out in Arizona, but done by the senior doer or sorry, champion sewer now. Um, and it's the uh poop in the box test. And at 45, most assurances will cover it now. Uh now that's not the it's not perfect. No test is. No, it, you know, it's the hit rate's good, but if it comes back with positive, then then they'll line you up with a colonoscopy. If you have any blood-related family member within one, I think it's within two generations that was diagnosed with colorectal cancer, take 10 years off their age, and that's when you should get a colonoscopy. If you have, right, so like if you have an aunt that died at 55 from colorectal cancer, excuse me, not died, sorry, cheese, had a diagnosis of colorectal cancer at 55, it's blood related to you, get your colonoscopy at 45. Like just go get it. I can tell you it's far less cheaper to pay for a colonoscopy than pay for chemo drugs. Uh, it's not that bad. You lose like seven pounds the easy way, it's fantastic. Uh um, it's not that bad. Um, so they did lower the age to 45, start screening for it. And I think the the the colonoscopy, um, the first one's supposed to be done at 50. If they don't find anything, then there's intervals from there. Um if you're asking about symptoms, it's a lot of the kind of normal stuff, which is like that can be explained by hemorrhoids. We'll put links in the show notes if you have more questions. But I just really want people to know that like it's serious, it's it's serious. And unfortunately, I don't in my cancer involvement world that I am in, there doesn't seem to be a lot of under 40-year-old, under 45-year-olds getting stage one and stage two. It's usually three or four, yeah, and four is not like I want to say the five-year survival rate. I should have this up, and someone's probably gonna call me on it, but I'm pretty sure it drops below 10% for stage four, and it's like 70% if you're stage three. So it's a massive drop off. Yeah. So uh we used to say get your uh what is it? Uh check your six, get a clear rear. Yeah. Uh you're never too young. There's a bunch of hashtags. You'll see blue ribbons in the month of March. If you follow me on social media, you're gonna get one a day at least. So enjoy that. Um, but yeah, man, I uh that was my that was my my intro into be or my uh how I punched my ticket into the to this widowhood journeyess. And um, man, I I am so thankful that we're we have been able to find a community of men and women that can be part of our tribe and understand this part of our life because it really is unlike anything else. So um, you know, it's I'm not thankful that my wife died, but I am thankful for finding the people afterwards for sure.

Ben: 52:06

Yeah. Well, thank you, Matt, for exposing the rawness of your experiences and your story and sharing it with everyone to help create a you know uh a better scenario for somebody else, potentially. Um, so thank you for that. Really appreciate it.

Matt: 52:31

I know it's that it's where the guest and this is where the guest says, thank you for having me, which I'm on my own thing, but why not thank you, me, for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 52:40

You're welcome, me. Yeah. Thanks, man. You're welcome. Thanks, man.