Matt: 0:33

Hey everybody, this is Matt, and I've got my brother north of the wall. My Canadian brother, Ken Canada. What is up? My friend, it's been a while. I don't think we've actually for everybody for anyone who's under the age of 30, that would be the Great White North sketch. Great White North, babe. With the famous Rick Moranis and the other guy. And if you haven't seen, uh is it just called what's it? What's what's it called? Strange brew.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04

Strange brew. Look it up.

Matt: 1:06

If you haven't, it is an occult classic. Strange brew, Wick Moranis, and the other Canadian guy who I can't remember his name. Sketch comedy, freaking amazing. A take off you hoser. Get some stubbies. Oh man, fantastic. So it's been it's been a little bit. I did a catch up with Ben, and now we're doing a catch-up with Ken. Uh so uh happy new year, uh Merry Valentine's Day. Uh welcome to the winner. Uh I I know you're you're all you're all set to probably play hockey and do fun stuff outside. And I'm just yeah, I just played some puck tonight, actually. That's why I'm up. That's right. And I just and I'm here with one good foot. So so how um what's been going on, man? How have you been? And uh we we get we we had a couple of things. Oh, wait, whoops, whoops, forgot to do a formality. Last time I was having water, right? I will write the name down because I'm gonna butcher it. It starts with an A, it's seem it's something, and it's another single malt scotch. It's quite delicious, and I'll put it in the show notes. What are you partaking of this fine evening?

SPEAKER_02: 2:10

You know what? I've actually this is the first time I've had actually a couple beers in a long time. I did a dry January. Oh I made it. Wow, I did the whole month. I couldn't believe it. I think I did a dry Tuesday. Nice. Impressive. No, I'm actually uh yeah, I had uh I started off with a little Stella Artois. Oh, who doesn't love a good Stella? And uh, and then I actually went to one of my sort of uh well, forefathers brewing co. It's a local microbrew, obviously, the buzzword with everybody, right? But this one's called the Schwechniko, Svetniko, not number nine. It's a Ukrainian dunkel.

Matt: 2:55

I don't even know what that is, but now I want one. I've never had a Ukrainian dunk.

SPEAKER_02: 2:59

A Euro Dark Lager. So there you go.

Matt: 3:03

All right. Well, now we got the business out of the way. Cheers, brother. Um, so yeah, how how was uh how's how's how are things?

SPEAKER_02: 3:12

Yeah, great. Um, you know, Christmas is good. This is the first Christmas that we actually spent um back in the house after uh you know basically having two Christmases outside of the we went we both we did two in a row actually up in uh our local ski sort of spot that we went to. And we would we went away for those two Christmases. And actually, so this year was actually the uh sort of the you know the test that you know as you guys all know when you uh go through your first Christmas, you really want to change it up and not really be around I think the same place that you you'd been doing Christmas, I think, for a while. I go to Ohio. I feel like I went to Ohio. Yeah, but anyway, it's pretty common, yeah. Pretty common theme, I think, with everybody. I mean, I know people a lot of people that I talk to in our group, our widower group, um and the widows that like a lot of people go south, a lot of people try to you know switch it up and do something.

Matt: 4:23

I'd say especially if it's in that like three to six month window where it's pretty fresh. Like it's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:31

If if it's like uh reaching a year, maybe not, but there's definitely especially around those significant milestone holidays for your family, there's definitely something about doing a especially like doing a locational change is well, and especially if you're if your person was into into Christmas a lot, like holy cow, that brings back, and you got to drag out all the, you know, that's the worst decorating the tree, dragging out those ornaments, everything that's tied into both of you, and you're just like this was the first year we didn't hang the stocking, and what we did was took a quick picture of Samantha Blair and I holding the stocking, kind of being funny, but I didn't I didn't put it up on the mantle because you kind of go like the first couple years, I think I did just out of like okay, but then you like you take it out of the box, you kind of look at it, and you're like, Does that really make sense right now?

Matt: 5:19

Everyone to each their own, there's no wrong or right answer, but I was like, it just didn't feel right to put it up on the mantle, so I didn't, which was bittersweet, right? You kind of go, like, oh crap, and there's definitely some you're right. There's the I want to get back to what my wife did real quick, is we we were starting to we hadn't beginning that long, buy ornaments on trips, especially big trips. We're not talking like you know, the big one to Florida for the 10 days or whatever, and it didn't have to necessarily be an ornament, she'd turn it into one that she'd put, like, you know, Tripto Aruba 200 17 or 18 or whatever. And I'm like, you know what? That's not the worst thing to do to build new ornaments going forward. Like I that so we actually I grabbed one when I was down in Florida that turned it into ornament, but anyway, nice.

SPEAKER_02: 6:02

Yeah, Christmas. Yeah, no, we did the same thing. Yeah, yeah, we did the same thing, and and actually building uh off of that, like it was great to actually have Julia involved um in this whole process. She was awesome, like she actually you know took part in helping to decorate and you know, took the time to when we did our sort of routine and and you know, tradition, getting the tree.

Matt: 6:29

Did she did she bring any of her own uh geneswequois, any of her own uh flair to Christmas that was like a new tradition?

SPEAKER_02: 6:37

Like, did she bring any well, yeah, you know, and actually it was it was awesome because her family is pretty, you know, tight and she has obvious she has two siblings, and her parents are still uh rocking Christmas quite a bit. So we actually did um which which actually worked out really well for me because then it took the pressure off me. She uh her parents hosted Christmas dinner so that day. So we did Christmas morning here and uh woke up and you know, the boys and all that kind of stuff, and then we actually went to her parents' place for Christmas dinner in the day on Christmas Day. So we left around noon, and uh, you know, after opening all the gifts and stuff and setting up stuff here, so yeah, it actually worked out really well. Um, what a nice balance, like I said.

Matt: 7:24

Yeah, what a nice little bit, yeah, a little bit of old, a little bit of new, nice little transition. And this is you like um did she go skiing with you last year? Did she join you guys at your Christmas exclusion? She did okay.

SPEAKER_02: 7:36

She she did go up, she came up, and actually was right during the lockdown, though. She got there the day we had we had done one full day of skiing, and then they shut down the hill and they actually locked down everything, which is uh crazy because it's outdoors, but as we know now, but it is what it is. I mean, yeah, so she did she was prepared, but we so then this time we actually planned a week. So on the 26th, we went to Tromblanc, we went to Quebec for a week and uh skied uh with uh another friend of mine and his family. They have two boys as well. So yeah, we put we did a week's long sort of uh post-Christmas trip, which was great together. And the only thing that happened out of that was we all got covet. Hey, whatever omicron.

Matt: 8:28

So Christmas Christmas went well, and then roll into the new year. Uh recently, Valentine's Day, anything there, or is it just kind of a a non a non-thing?

SPEAKER_02: 8:38

Or I mean we we went out, I think, on the weekend before we actually because our restaurants were just opening up, like they just started opening up the last month or so. So we had made a reservation, you know, went out to the keg. Can't go wrong with the keg up here in Canada, and uh yeah, had a steak dinner, and you know, it was just good to good to have time out together. And yeah, I mean, Valentine's Day. I like, I mean, it was hilarious. Actually, this is a hilarious story because Julia, Julia was like, because I was in and Leanne and I always felt the same way. It was you know, it's kind of a contrived holiday. We all know Hallmark holiday.

Matt: 9:21

Yeah, we call them right, yeah. We call them Hallmark holidays, right?

SPEAKER_02: 9:23

Yeah, and so you're like, well, whatever, let's just plan to do, you know, something together. Maybe we'll do, you know, make dinner together or something like that. So I sort of was telling Julia that, you know, the same thing. And she's like, Well, I kind of like Valentine's Day. And I'm like, okay, well, that's fine. You can like so, you know, leading up to it, I went out of my way, got the Hallmark card, made plans, went to uh had I had uh um, you know, an inn that a florist that I knew that was selling roses fairly cheap um for that day.

Matt: 9:59

So I knew fairly inexpensive, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:02

That's right. For the solo dad, cheap it's right for the women, inexpensive. It was inexpensive and frugal and smart. So yeah, so anyway, I picked her up some roses, had the card, hilarious. She was busy that work that day, so you know, she had a lot of meetings stacked up, so I had it sort of ready to go for when I came back. It was at noon, and I was like, Oh, we'll have lunch together, I'll give her these flowers and stuff. And she's like, Oh, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, well, it's Valentine's Day, you know, where's my card?

SPEAKER_00: 10:37

She's like, Oh, I didn't uh I don't think I got your card, I didn't have a chance.

SPEAKER_02: 10:43

I'm like, hey, that's cool. But you put that in your back pocket.

Matt: 10:47

That's right. You save that one for later for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 10:49

That is a get out of the jail card free to be used at any time.

Matt: 10:55

Well played. Nice. Um so roll where the where are the boys or where are you guys at with uh schooling up there? Is is it in person? Is it a flex? Is it a mix? Or okay.

SPEAKER_02: 11:08

We're back to in school now. Um we we had a little hiccup, I guess, right before Christmas. Um things were ramping up, yeah. But no, they're all back in school now, which is good. Um it's uh but it was actually funny, was like uh it sort of segues into my oldest, who was uh nine at the time when Leanne uh died. And you know, there was I think that day was pretty traumatic for him. Like there's a lot of things that kind of went down, like that he remembers specifically, because it was like the coming home from school, we're not here, you know, our close family friends are at the house, you know. Oh, yeah, you know, there's been an accident, your dad's at the hospital. Don't you know he's gonna call us. That kind of thing.

Matt: 12:02

That's a scene out of a movie, right? Yeah, totally. And even at nine, they know this isn't this isn't minor.

SPEAKER_02: 12:10

Like this, this is yeah, this sounds pretty serious. Yeah. Um, so the that hole has been stuck, like that thing has been stuck in his head for a long time. And and he's he's a kid that's you know, like I was saying before, he's very emotional, but he's also very guarded. He doesn't like to show his emotions very much. Um, and uh, and part of that, like too, like I've had numerous conversations with him, and I think this is important too, with depending on how it goes, but I think our communication level with our kids is really important to just stress to them. Um, much like when we have our conversations with our close friends, and you know, those those, and it usually happens within the first year or two where it's like, oh, I don't, I didn't want to mention you know her name, or I didn't want to, I didn't want to bring it up because I was I was afraid of like upsetting you. I don't want to make you feel upset. And you're like, no, that doesn't make me feel upset at all. Actually, that makes me feel good when you you know bring those things up to me and and you know it, you know, that you want to talk about or you have a question that you want to talk about, you know, our person.

Matt: 13:23

Yeah, I think it's great. I think what I think what I would if anyone's listening, if anyone, we have people listen. People who are listening to this, uh if you're early on in the grief process, probably a thing you can tell people is that I will let you know what I'm uncomfortable with talking about the moment I'm uncomfortable about it. So if you're having a rough day and you really don't want to discuss your person, or you'll tell them. But outside of that, grief is such an open arena of what's feasible because everyone's different and each day is gonna be different. That I think, like you're saying, like when your friends are like, I do nothing, and you're like, No, I'd rather you do everything and then I'll tell you what's not acceptable. Yeah, because you're right. I I remember having a conversation with one of my wife's friends almost exactly about the same thing. And it was a very good conversation and a very positive one. But I remember kind of going like oh wow, that's kind of on me that I didn't tell them the parameters. Like, I and I was like, Well, they should have known. And I was like, wait a minute, they've never had one of their best friends die. None of us know how to do this. And they're looking to me, to us, the griever of you know, if you will, to tell them what the parameters are. And even though we don't know them, we we we don't know all of them. We just know in the moment of like, I don't want to go over, I really don't want to read the coroner's report with you right now. That's not a thing. I'm using that example, right? Can we just not do that? The rest of it, please say your name. Please tell me about that funny. Please tell me about how you're how it makes you sad. Please share it. So I yes, that first year, there's a lot of those conversations going on and figuring out. Keep going. Totally.

SPEAKER_02: 15:05

Yeah. So, and that's why I was saying like 99 per times out of a hundred, we're we're at that point where it's like, you know, no, that's cool. Just like you said, like, you know, it's it's way more awkward when someone avoids the topic or is dancing around it, or is like you're just like, okay, clearly this is, you know, it's it's awkward for you, and now it's making me feel awkward too. Um, so yeah, just having that, that I think is you're right, is a good communication and and doing with your close, you know, friends and family, and just sort of getting it out there whenever you can to say, no, this is normal to talk about. And when you bring it up, it's not when I'm feeling bad. Like it's not it, you know, like that is very rare. I don't think I've even had that one conversation where I'm like, oh no, I'm actually in a triggered sort of state right now. Like, I really wish you wouldn't bring that up right now.

Matt: 16:06

Fortunately, fortunately for me, I would I would probably say most, unless it gets to where it's just you're piling on, right? Or it's someone that's not close. I can I definitely can uh recall people retelling their story of and then people started to like pile it on. It's like you know, most is well, right? Uh Marcy died of colon cancer. Well, how long was her journey uh inside of a year? What was her proceeding? And then they start, they just keep and you're like, you know what? That we just you know, I'm trying to use the yeah, but yours was what's way more instant and tragic than mine. Sure. And so, like, it's so, and then people start asking more, and you're like, you know what? Then you kind of go, all right, but you're right. I think most of the time we're like, no, we're okay to. And I think the other thing that people listening who are grieving should probably think about is you will your body and your mouth and your brain and your heart will know exactly how much you're willing to share, right? So one day you might be like, like you just said, you're not in a bad spot, but you're like, it's gonna be short, concise sentences. I'm not gonna go into details. Two weeks later, they may be much more long and drawn out just because of where you are in that moment and how you're feeling. So I in with the kiddos, so staying focused on the kiddos, yeah. Yeah, I think what's interesting is uh at the age that Holden was, he he will have a pretty good 100% recall of that day and and everything around that, where depending on the ages, they may not, and then how you go about uh communicating in the moment, and then as those moments get either replayed or triggered, because they're still developing their emotional tool belt on how to deal with life, let alone this massive event.

SPEAKER_02: 17:51

So yeah, yeah, and that's exactly you know what sort of happened with him, and and and I really like you know, that first night trying to decide, you know, the next morning how I'm gonna tell them and everything, that was like probably one of the toughest nights or the hardest night of my life. But you know, deciding on that, no, I'm gonna be truthful, I'm gonna be straightforward, I'm gonna just you know, rip the band-aid off and get it out there and nine and nine and six six at the time. Okay, so and and yeah, and I was hoping, but you know, zero sleep, uh emotional roller coaster. I was trying to be as you know strong as I could, quote unquote, but I was emotional, obviously. I wasn't gonna hold that back. So I think there was a little bit of that, you know, indelible mark. Like you can probably everyone listening to this can probably remember, you know. Do you remember, you know, when you had that experience with a parent or uh your dad, and he, you know, cried and emotionally broke down. And it's it's shocking for kids. It's like it is, it's like, oh my gosh, like my dad's not supposed to be like this. What's going on? Right. So I think that really paid played a role in, you know, also him harboring, okay, I'm not gonna, I don't want to make dad upset as I process this. I wanna, you know, and it's been, you know, it's been over two and well, almost three years now. Like we're coming up on three years. So um, you know, his ability to deal with that, deal with adolescence, going now, he's in puberty. He's definitely a teenager. It's it magnifies everything, like everything I've read about it, everything I've it's basically like take your teenager, stupid horn, and then yeah, and and the normal teenager brain, and then just you know. Throw a factorial of 10 on top. Sure. While he's while he's dealing with this. So, you know, I think the the message I was trying to get across to him over this last year was just, you know, anytime you feel something and it's in it's it's sort of related to your grief or related to your um you know journey with dealing with these memories, these flashbacks. You know, I want to know about them. I want to know about uh you know how you're feeling and and to basically communicate that very openly to say, you know, when you tell me those things, it does not make me feel upset. It makes me feel actually comforted because you're sharing that with me. And uh I know that you know that we can talk about that. And it's not gonna upset me at the time. So and because I think honestly, kids default right away. They're like, Oh, I don't, I can't tell, you know, I don't want to say this to my dad. Um because I don't want to upset them.

Matt: 21:08

So um I and I and this is this is like something I just wrote down for myself, but like, and I love what you said. So say that again.

SPEAKER_02: 21:16

It's them sharing that doesn't upset you it what it well, it comforts you comforts, and it it actually brings you like it, it gives you that sort of connection um through the loss of their mother that you're like, oh my gosh, yeah, like this is awesome. He's you know, he or she is sharing um, you know, their real feelings around some of this grief and loss and things like that. Like it really brings you together.

Matt: 21:43

And I I think I need to change some of the words I use just with even my four-year-old because there are times that she'll, you know, she's you know, she didn't have the terrible twos or the terrible threes. She's got like this whole four-year-old thing going on that's crazy. So she'll whatever, she'll react to something and I'll be like, you know, tell me what's going on. And she's like, No, you're gonna be mad. And I'm like, I don't really get that mad about that much. And so I think I'm gonna change some of the words. It's like, you know, it gives me comfort when you communicate to me. And this isn't about grief, but like parenting in general. And I really like those words because it's like, you know, it it it makes me feel good that you can communicate to me that you're upset or that you're sharing this thing with me. And there's a lot of things as parents that if you are honest with it, there are things that we just can't fix. No one can actually, and they just are. And so being able to say, you know, if your son's sharing with you and you're like, you know, you're in you you kind of like with well with grief, right? You're just in it with him, and that probably means he may not recognize it now, but it's probably gonna mean a lot more as he gets older because uh that it's just there's things that we just we can we can never fix.

SPEAKER_02: 22:53

Right. And and then and then that's the that's that actually is a perfect segue, Matt. Thank you, Matt. Uh to when you're parenting, because as the parent, you always want to be the fixer. You always want to be like, okay, tell me your problem. Uh, yeah, okay, now I think I know how to fix it, and I'm gonna tell you how to fix it. And it's really come to light to me, and I don't know if anyone out there is, you know, when you're dealing with a teen or tween, uh, whatever you want to call it, but that that whole um the power struggle that you're going through, and everybody's facing this. Um, you know, if you're a parent with this kind of stuff, but it's it's the pull, you know, pulling on the rope, and it's that whole metaphor of you know, power, and you give them power by dropping the rope, and it almost gives you, you know, the respect that you're looking for uh as a parent, you know, you want your your child to respect you and to trust you and share with you and you know, do all those things. But man, my oldest, he is, you know, he is like cut from the stain cloth. So he and I are very similar, so we butt heads a lot. So over these last, especially this last two years, two years and a bet years, you know, not taking on the adversarial role or you know, challenging him for the power that he is so striving for. It's just it's more like drop the rope, let him, you know, do what he wants to do. And then this circles back to this whole piece of where he's starting to share with me because he's starting to trust me a little bit more and trust the fact that I'm not gonna get upset, I'm not gonna emotionally break down uh if he tells me a memory or a trigger um, you know, involved in that day. And that was actually specific to that day. Like what he he's actually experienced is uh, you know, repeated nightmares where he really relives that day. Um he's had um kind of similar to PTSD uh sort of symptoms where he has flashbacks. So, like if he's sitting in school and you know, those daydream, you know, those times in school where you're like, I've answered that question, and it's like now they're talking about it again. So I got 10 minutes here to just you know, check and he's had that checkout and and he's had that experience where he's um you know, he it's a flashback memory, it takes him back to that, and then it puts him into a very uh lonely, dark place because of these emotions that come along with it. So when he started sharing this with me, I immediately was like, Okay, well, you know what? It's been a while. We haven't talked to our counselor in a while, we haven't gone um, you know, to have any, you know, would you be interested in that? And he's like, right away, no, I don't want to talk to uh Bonnie. I don't want that, was our counselor. Um, but because she's strictly just because of COVID restrictions and her own personal medical, she can only do online sessions. Sure. So I was like, well, maybe maybe you want to see someone that, you know, maybe I can track down someone where you could have an you know, a face-to-face, uh, and it might be better for you. Um, so actually I did a bit of digging, research, uh, talked to a counselor really uh, really quite highly accredited, and and was tied into our um our uh camp carry experience in the fall where we did that uh experience with the grief camp, family camp. Um, and she gave me some good recommendations, some local people to contact, you know, basically rooted out a person that was pretty close, was awesome, like was a Laurier grad, was actually going to Laurier at the time when Leanne would have been working there.

Matt: 27:12

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 27:13

Um, and she actually was one of the counselors that they called in because the accident, I call it the accident, the you know for for kids to talk to and students and basically, yeah. Basically, well, she was walking on the side on the sidewalk in front of a public school. So at the time when the vehicle jumped the curve and this guy hit her. So she was actually one of the counselors that was called in to talk to the students and a lot of the first responders that actually were on the scene at the time. So she shared that with Holden when we had this little screen.

Matt: 27:52

What a small crazy world, right?

SPEAKER_02: 27:56

Yeah. And and that's her full full-time gig, actually. She's uh she works for the school board and she does a lot of counseling with with kids, predominantly kids, um, yeah, around grief, loss, and uh, and also other, you know, other things that are affecting uh kids in that in in that sort of area. But yeah, but she so she was she, you know, and and we had this nice online meeting. I was like thinking it was going really well. You know, we get off the online meeting and right away. She's he's like, Okay, I'm good. That's it. Like, I'm not gonna go. I don't want to go. I don't want he, I don't want to go see, I don't want to do a session, I don't want to see anymore, I don't want to talk to anyone. And I was like, really? Like that's it, like interesting, you know, and he was downplaying the whole because she was asking those questions. Like, oh well, you know, have you had that experience before? Have you had that? Oh, well, no, only once, maybe once. And it's been it's been a long time since I've had it again. So, right away, he's deflecting, he's you know, doing all of those things to get out of it. So then I had to take a step back. I didn't react right away. I was just like, okay, you know, that's fine, we'll talk about it. And talking about it with a few close friends and a little bit, you know, I came, you know, to realize I was like, okay, you know what? I've made it very abundantly clear that there are resources for him and that we can talk about specifically these flashbacks and you know, nightmares, these types of triggers that are affecting him. But if he doesn't want to deal with it andor meet with someone to talk about it, you can't force them, especially at this age. Like basically came to the point where I was I was like, okay, this is one of those things where I'm gonna respect his feelings. I'm gonna say, you know what, I'm glad you listened in on this. You know what's out there, but at the same time, I'm not gonna make you go unless you want to go. Um, now there is a difference between you know Holden's experience and you know, if your kid is say having, you know, suicidal right, bad thoughts, self-harm, bad thoughts, self-harm.

Matt: 30:22

There's there are certain times you have to force the horse to water and the intervention, you just have to let the horse know where the water is. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02: 30:29

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, that was an interesting experience, and that was something that we just went through. And I was like, okay. And and you know what? I specifically after a day, I went up to him and I was like, Hey, I'm really glad that you went to that session with me. We were able to, you know, chat about it. I respect your, you know, your feelings on this. I'm not gonna make you go if you don't want to go, and that's fine. And you know, it, you know, I think it really perked him up. Like he was like, Okay, thanks. Like, you know, it's sort of well, like that whole going back to that thing, drop the rope, right?

Matt: 31:06

Yeah, and it's soon to be 13. There is some autonomy that is earned and given. And this isn't his first counseling rodeo, right? You've you guys have you've done this before, and so he knows what's out there, and and know it, probably you a realizing to to let you know, you're saying, you know, let go of the rope. And then also he's done you guys have done it more than once, so it's not like you just were like, there's counseling available and walked away. So I think the other part is he knows that it's something that is fruitful, that it's something that is worthwhile, that something can help him, whether it's now when he's soon to be 13, or in five years from now when he's 18, he's like, you know, I'm really struggling with some stuff. Let me go talk to this counselor about these things that are happening. Because I think that's one of the other problems, like right, is that when it's the first time, you like you almost all have to go to see what it is. And then you're also rolling the dice of, you know, does the counselor work for you? Does it not? And it's not like you know, there's good counselors and there's bad counselors, there's good brain surgeons and there's not so great brain surgeons. So and do they work for yours what you've got going on, and can they relate and all those things? So um how is he handling everything now?

SPEAKER_02: 32:24

Yeah, I mean, like this just happened, like this is actually poignant, all brand new. Okay, yeah, like this this actually took place like three days ago.

Matt: 32:33

Oh, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 32:34

So yeah, so honestly, and even Julia commented on this. She's like, she's like, you know, he's been really good like lately, like he hasn't been sort of angsty, like you know, that sort of like edgy, up and down teenager. Um but you know, you've got to take it like all that, and I try to explain because Julia is never, you know, she hasn't had kids, so she's kind of like on edge with him too, because it right, she finds it obviously really much more difficult to build building a relationship with him than with Drew. Drew is you know so much easier, and and um, you know, Drew really, you know, has taken to Julia too. So it's um but it's tricky, but yeah, for the most part, I mean, so far it's been good.

Matt: 33:28

Um, you know, well, hopefully he knows that he you've made it clear that when he needs it, he can ask for it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:38

Right.

Matt: 33:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 33:40

Yeah, for sure.

Matt: 33:42

Yeah, it's interesting because I'm on the like I I'm trying to figure out like what I need to do for she was so so young. And I was just having this conversation with someone online. I mean, she was 13 months old when her mom died, and she doesn't know any so and someone and and I think I was telling someone, I was like, she doesn't know anything but the care team of uh mom, dad, grandma, grandma. Like those are the four people that have cared for her since she was born. And because it was so I mean, it was 90 days after she was born that chemo started, and all like our life all changed, and so it's not like she had this one figure that was mom, and then mom died, and now there's this, you know, grandma, grandma, and dad. It was like since 90 days after birth, like you can't you can't do breastfeeding because she's gonna have chemo, so like it all changes, right? Right, so it's interesting, and it and I was just telling someone, I'm like, I don't know, you know, I've I we what we look at pictures still sometimes, and I'm and I'm like, I'm leaning towards maybe trying to find, but like the last time I talked to a child therapist, there I told them what we're doing, and the lady was like, with her age and everything, that you're there's nothing else to be done. And I was like, Yeah, it's interesting when they're that young, it's almost like you almost you're trying to force them to feel bad so you can fix something, but she's so young that it's it's well, and that's kind of a blessing. Well, right, it just goes to like what's better, you know, for your mom to die when you're 13 or your mom to die when you're 13 months. There's no better, they're both complex with rot complex the things, but you're right. One of the blessings is that she will know of her mother, but she really doesn't fully at this age, right, comprehend knowing her and the loss of her. She will always just be this person that she knows of, not necessarily a person she knew in her in her in her human heart. I would say she's so much like her mother. I think she's gonna realize that her DNA is is 98% off. Right.

SPEAKER_02: 35:50

So it's just a very and that's gotta be tough on you, right? It's interesting. That's another level. It's where you're sitting there watching this unfold in front of you, and then you're like, Oh, I'm so frustrated. But she made a because you you're the steward, you're the steward of her legacy and memory. Like, and I remember thinking that the first night I was like, This is all on me. Yep. Now it's all on me. Yeah, like I'm the only one that is gonna be in charge of this.

Matt: 36:24

Hey there, listeners, and my tribe of allies want to take just a moment to remind you how you can find the podcast. We are on all platforms. We're on Apple Podcasts, we're on Spotify, we're on Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Audible, and all the others. If you are listening on Apple Podcasts, please give us a feedback and give a review. It helps the podcast be found. If you're looking to find more solo dad content, we are on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter at SoloDad Podcast. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the show, or if you just want to email us with thoughts or topics you'd like to hear us talk about, good old fashioned email for us is solo dadpodcast at gmail.com. Thank you again for your support and listening, and we hope you find it helpful. Back to the conversation. I'm glad you I'm glad you I well, especially as of a mother and a wife, right? Like my my sister-in-law, my brother-in-law, and my mother-in-law, they're a steward of Marcy as a sister and as a daughter, and as a etc. I'm the only one that's the steward of them of her being a mom because that's what she was, and a and a wife. And so it's interesting is, and I'm glad you said that because I've struggled with like, why is why is me making a picture book of Marcy's life so accessible to Blair so important? Because I'm the steward of it. I'm the one other someone else can author the story, but I can, I'm the only one that can author our story that led to Blair. Someone from the outside could give their perspective story, but this would be our story in the best version I can and what happened. And so it's it's just it's a fascinating, it's a it's grief. Is I still I said this earlier today on another chat, and I said, I still firmly believe this is probably one of my mantras now for a while. Grief's gonna find a way. Like if you don't acknowledge it, embrace it, and take it for the shitty thing that it is, it's gonna find a damn way, right? And and it's gonna find a way into be acknowledged and dealt with, whether you like it or not. And I think the whole, like what you did with Holden, the open and honesty of it of going, like, hey man, if you need help, it's available, you know. You've got some emotional stuff going on, you might have the tools to deal with it, you might not. But it's better than going like everything's fine and you don't have to go. Yeah, because he may never have to go to counseling again, he might work it all out himself and it'll be fine. But just grief will find a way to be acknowledged. And I think when you're talking also about the Stuart side of it, and and because the book for all intents and purposes was truncated by all of our plans, right? None of us plan this out. That's right. That all of a sudden you're like, oh crap, I gotta, I gotta write this story that got ended before I was ready before it was to end. And and it's a weird it's a weird thing to do, but it's a it's such a honor and heavy responsibility. Yeah, it really is. It really is. And it's an interesting, and the other part is like you're talking too about like, and I'm glad you said this as well. I you know, I think I joked with the one when uh this this one will air after we catch up with Ben. So when I was catching up with Ben, I said I not that I think the universe blew out my Achilles, but I think there's something about like, hey, you're gonna sit on your butt and you're gonna have to deal with some stuff. And I have been, I've been dealing with it's been very Very interesting because I was quite literally running from some stuff, like quite literally, just not handling stuff. I was staying busy on the surface, it all looked healthy and fine, and you know, doing this and doing that and taking care of this and taking care of that. And then all of a sudden you go, like, yeah, but I'm avoiding this one big issue that is grief related because I don't want to do it because it's gonna hurt. Well, yeah, now guess what I get to do? I can't do anything, so now I'm dealing with it.

unknown: 40:24

Right.

Matt: 40:25

Yeah, it hurts, but now I at least have my foot to distract me. I'm like, Oh, it doesn't hurt as bad as my foot. No. So um, speaking of Drew, how did Drew did Drew join any of these? Or is he is he doing just kind of his own thing? Or where's he at?

SPEAKER_02: 40:40

Yeah, he's he's been um really well. Uh so he's kind of is he nine yet? So he's nine. Yeah, he's turning ten this September. Um, and it's it's crazy, but he he was like, he's like my little old man. I love it. In uh, you know, in a nine-year-old body. Like he he says some profound things, and and he was always the one that was sort of processing things, and he always is. Like he's uh you can tell like the wheels in his head. He'll he'll ask a question and you'll give him an answer, and he'll be like, he'll think on it for a while before he starts, you know, to go down the road or or ask another question. And he was always the one that um that sort of came to the conclusion of you know, mummies in heaven. Um I understand, you know, that she went there probably earlier than she wanted to go, and I wanted her to go. And um, but you know, I feel pretty comfortable with that. And um, what did she what did he say? This is like, I don't know, back in probably just before Christmas, and he was like, you know, I think it was my nanny, uh Esther. Uh he was telling this to her, and he was like, you know, I really feel bad that my mom died, but if my mom didn't die, I wouldn't have gotten to meet you, meaning the nanny. Right. And I wouldn't have I wouldn't have been able to meet Julia, and I wouldn't have been able to, you know, have these like these other people that are in my life now.

Matt: 42:38

And I was we wouldn't be having this podcast. Like I like the other day holy shit. The other day I realized I had a bunch of like kind of little epiphanies, like he just where I was like, my wife was still alive, the podcast wouldn't be here, I wouldn't live where I live, things wouldn't be the way they are. There'd be a lot of different and I was like, Whoa, like just realizing it's not it's not positive or negative, but it's more like it's I love I I gotta find the quote. It's more about it's the perspective he has is amazing because it doesn't remove the sadness, yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't remove the sadness of of the loss of the person. But when you and there's a it's not finding the meaning, but like being able to develop, like, oh, I met all these people, I'm having all these experiences, and that creates a sense of progression in a positive way.

SPEAKER_02: 43:41

So, in other words, like that there's still positive things happening.

Matt: 43:44

Right, like my mom died, and that's sad and that's terrible, but it's okay that I had fun while I was snow skiing with new people that I would never have met if my mom wasn't alive.

unknown: 43:55

Right.

Matt: 43:56

Or if my mom was alive, you know what I mean? Like it changes everything, right? All of a sudden you go, like, it's not it's still sad, it's still tragic that it happened. But like I think about like, you know, if you know, I that what I I probably wouldn't have just jumped in the car and driven down to Florida to spend time with my oldest right after Christmas if my wife was still alive, because she was probably gonna have to do quarter clothes and she would be in fine. We can't take we can't take those trips during that time, and not that anything would be the same, but you kind of go like, oh, I'm in a situation where I'm able to do that and have this great experience with Blair and my older daughter, but we probably wouldn't have done that if my wife was alive. So it's a very interesting, right? Like it doesn't remove it, it just kind of changes, you know, it just it creates a different perspective. And to realize that there's some it just sounds it always sounds people listening, are gonna understand that there is positivity even in the most tragic of circumstances, right? There, there is it doesn't mean that's it makes the the event a good thing, it means that things come after can have good in them.

SPEAKER_02: 44:59

That's right, that's right. And that's and that's ultimately what we want to talk about is is you know, when people say that's the difference, right? You know, we're going back to those the the you know, educating people on grief, and um, you know, it's not about you know, you gotta move on, right? It's moving forward at the same time as you are acknowledging your grief, your whatever else is that you know you're gonna take with you basically forever, but moving forward has a positive connotation to it. You're gonna move forward at the same time, and you're gonna be able to make new relationships, you're gonna be able to have new friends, you're gonna be able to find joy in different things.

Matt: 45:51

Ones that you would have never had if your person was still alive, right? And I what's interesting is I I can't believe it took me this long. So I've been down here almost two, it'll be two. We'll just round up, we'll call it two years. And the other the other day, I was like, Oh, none of my neighbors know me as Marcy's husband. None of my neighbors ever met Marcy. None of my neighbors even knew she existed on this planet. Yet they're all super supportive and super helpful with everything I have going on, and it's just you just go like it was it was obvious, but I just realiz I was like, I would have never met any of these neighbors who've been so helpful, or any of like Blair wouldn't be at the school she's at, she wouldn't have this new friend that she has through swim because I wouldn't be down here. It doesn't mean that similar things could happen where I live, but I wouldn't even it's crazy to think about, right? That that and it doesn't mean like there's all this like good that comes of it, and I and I should probably go dive back into David Kessler's uh the sixth stage. And I know people don't like the stage thing, but go read the actual thing, it's not actually a linear thing, it's not a checkbox, but anyway, the sixth stage, which is finding purpose. He used that word not meaning because it means like, why did my wife get cancer? There's no meaning behind that. The purpose is what we define it as afterwards. It's if you're per if you had a tragic event and you're like, I need to be healthier for my kids. So the purpose of create in you creates in you, not the person purpose of them dying, is like so I just go read this again, but what purpose you create out of it, what meaning you create out of it, because it also means now you're paying tribute to your person, right? Like if I need to be a better dad than I've ever been before, that's okay because my person's not here. I created my own purpose. It's not my wife died, so I could be a better dad. That's ludicrous, right? Right. So it's an interesting, it's very interesting, and especially him being as young as he is to be able to do that. That's pretty great. How did he, just out of curiosity, when you guys went to counseling early on, how did he handle like therapy and counseling? Yeah. Was it kind of the same reflectiveness, even at like six-ish?

SPEAKER_02: 48:06

Well, he he well, he he did a lot of reflective um drawings, uh, did a lot of artwork, okay. Um things like that. So, and and it was interesting because it was it was um, you know, paying it was artwork and he was six, but he was almost doing what I wanted to do, and I eventually did, but paying homage to his mom. Like he would do these special drawings, you know, use the colors. Uh, you know, she worked at Laurier and that university has is their colors were purple and gold. So purple and gold have become, you know, um colors that are associated with mom. That's awesome. And you know, doing things like that.

Matt: 48:56

So yeah, it was really I just saw a scene like that of a movie where like you'd walk into a room where he's like doing all uh Jackson Pollock type paintings. I'm just making this up right, and it's all like golden, golden purple throughout the whole room. And it's just like I don't know, it's like a scene, like I could see it where it's like this seems weird, but then you realize it's an homage to somebody and you go, like, this is really powerful. That's really cool, man.

SPEAKER_02: 49:19

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, he's it sounds like this isn't his soul's first rodeo, right? Yeah, exactly. I was like, holy, like, who is this kid?

Matt: 49:31

Yeah, there's sometimes I that's a whole separate conversation of that's a whole different that's a whole different realm to dive down. I I still love just to touch on it. Someone once said, and I and I I don't know if this has happened to you or not, but there have been times in my life where you meet someone that you're not connected in any way, not through anything else, just kind of a random chance encounter. And then as in further, like we'll go like when I was in college or when I was younger, and then you fast forward to now, and I go, like, somewhere, somehow we knew each other in a different place. I don't, I'm not, well, I don't want to get into reincarnate any of that, but I'm like, somewhere our souls have collided into each other before. It's just you just have this instant, immediate, and you're like, that's weird, especially when there's no commonality, right? You didn't go to the same, there's no relatable points of data you can go into and go, like, well, that's why we're so similar. It's just it sounds again. No, Drew, it's not Drew's first rodeo. He's yeah, he's like, I've done this before. Yeah, well, good. Well, how's and then when I have just out of curiosity, have you and Julia done anything in counseling wise for because you've been together, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:44

We've been together now. Uh so we've been together what going on two. No, we're going on year plus, just over a year, okay, year three months. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. So yeah, it's it's going well. Like, I mean, the plans are for her to to move in with us in the spring. Like, she she spends, you know, it's probably like easily 60 40.

SPEAKER_00: 51:13

Nice.

SPEAKER_02: 51:14

Um, sort of percentage of time here and then her place. So yeah.

Matt: 51:18

So any cure, have you have you have you read did she read any books? Have you pointed at anything? Or is it that she's just emotionally high high IQ enough to just kind of deal with the pitches as they come? I kind of I mean, I from gatherings, I kind of assumed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 51:37

Yeah. One of the things I mean that struck me with her really, and I think it's because of her own journey experiences and journey is that you know, she realizes she's like, she when I told her, you know, obviously when we met and and the story that I I told her and everything, that um, you know, she wasn't sort of put aback or you know, gun shy, or I don't know, whatever euphemism you want to apply to the dating world. Um, because she was she was right away, she was well, two things. She was sort of, you know, attracted by my positive outlook and my drive to like I was serious and wanting to meet someone and being uh you know in a relationship and creating a positive relationship with someone because that's what I knew. That's what I knew for a long time, and that's what I wanted to find again. So um I think she liked that, obviously. But then the other thing was that she she wasn't intimidated by having um you know the history of Leanne and I, and knowing that you know, I would always have um you know the memory of Leanne, the love for Leanne and stuff in my life, because you know, she has had relationships where you know she wouldn't say like you know, she was totally honest with me. She was like, No, I I love that person, but due to extenuating circumstances, I knew that we couldn't continue or it was a relationship wasn't gonna go any further than it was going, right? Right. So um she kind of got on board with wrapping that into the whole grief and you know application of of having someone that you know, having a person that you've lost, and it wasn't a big deal to her.

Matt: 53:46

She was like, Well, yeah, yeah, I know I if you're coming, if you're coming in and it's not a bitter divorce situation, it's not this um you know emotionally complex thing that you're bringing to the table. It's more of a again. I I just am assuming a high emotional IQ person, is that like you can when you have multiple kids, you kind of figure this out too, right? Like you can love more than one person. You you can. It's it's a thing. It's really hard for some people to wrap their head around it, but like you love them differently, but you love them the same, right? You're gonna love them for different reasons and who they were in your life in that time. And you know, unless you're completely messed up in the head and you're just you know, I guess a narcissistic person that just uses people, then you have some other counsel you need. But it's like quite literally, you know, like you're saying, also like, and you you grazed over it, which I thought was I wanted to bring it back up and I will in a second, but I think that her ability to do that um assimilation or similarity thing of going like, no, I can respect that because I've had past relationships, they made me who I am today. They, for whatever reason, didn't work themselves out, but I still care for that human, right? I don't wish a male will. I don't, I don't, you know, if they call me, I'm gonna probably answer the phone call. But at the same time, they're no longer my person, but I it was a it was a relationship that existed. Um, and I think that's super important. But the other thing I I feel that you kind of grazed over was, and this I think maybe maybe I'll find a time to do this on a on another thing, which we I don't know, we've touched on dating a little bit, but this came up with Ben's conversation, him and I were talking about this too, is about dating with some level of intention with the with the fact, and I again I'm repeating something I just said to somebody earlier, which is it's crazy to think that for a while in grief, you go, I'm never gonna be happy again. And at some point, you re you flip that and you go, that's the dumbest thought to have for this reason. Why would you think that if you found happiness once, you couldn't find it again? Right. If you had never found happiness, right? And you'd never been happy in your relationship and it was a crap relationship, and your person died, and everything was crap, crap, crap, crap. Maybe then maybe you're like you got to work on your picking, your your parameters are messed up, maybe. But if you were in a good relationship for the most part, why would you think for a moment you couldn't repeat those results?

SPEAKER_03: 56:17

Yeah, right?

Matt: 56:18

And it's at some point, at some point, I think your protective layer of not wanting to get hurt in in that whole thing takes hold and it needs to for you to grieve, but then eventually that kind of peels back and you go like wait a second. Like the the like I'm even and I'm saying this only a little bit to talk to myself, which is I found somebody that was amazing once before. There's no reason why I should think that I shouldn't that I should think that I couldn't now may be more difficult now, or I may be more complex now, or my situation's different, sure, but to think that I would never find somebody again is I is the wrong place to start, especially if you found them before. It may be hard, it may be more complex because you're older and you've got multiple kids and you're different space in your life, and you're not a freewheeling 25-year-old, but you found them and you made it work.

SPEAKER_02: 57:14

So why can't you find somebody again and make it work well and yeah, and let me tell you like this and it's not I'm not saying it's gonna be easy, but no, it's not gonna be easy, but the mindset to all the listeners out there that are you know interested in this in this topic, you need to if you if if you come to that conclusion and you are and this is sort of the journey that I was on, if you get to that point where you have isolated, just like you said, where you peel back the layer and go, no, you know, this is actually what I want. I don't want uh to be alone, I don't want to be, and and and you know what part of that I think in terms of grief and memories and things like that, is that the person, and I can only speak to you know the audience from my perspective and from my person's perspective, but I know that Leanne would would want this for me, and she'd want it for you know, our family. She wouldn't want me to stay by myself, she wouldn't want to be in that situation. Yeah, I can share this.

Matt: 58:34

We were lucky enough to do the legacy video, and in Marcy's private message, you know, Marcy's private message to me was, and I I I think I can do this now without getting too choked up, is in her message to me, it was like at some point, and I think jokingly she goes, but not too soon, but at some point, Matt, I want you to go be happy again because seeing you happy will make me happy, and it just every time I listen to it, I'm like, oh, yo, like what and I'm so I'm so grateful that I had that we had the opportunity to do something like that. But the fact that she knew to say that to me means so much, right? Sure. And again, like you were saying, if your person truly truly loved you the way that most people seem to reflect back on in grief that their person cared for them, why wouldn't they want you to go be some level of happy again?

SPEAKER_02: 59:32

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So and that and that really, like I find when you get to that point, it's a really good motivator to apply to the all of the things that you need to apply to yourself to align yourself so that you can meet that person, so that you can so whatever it is super unique.

Matt: 59:57

Say say that again. Like, what would be in if it's for you personally? Personally, or what would be some things that you would say need to align?

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:02

Like well, like like basically, so I would say that the first thing that you when you're when you're sort of contemplating this and and trying to figure out what exactly you want, what your goal is um to get back to joy. And if it means finding that next person, then before you find that next person, you you need to sort of turn that power inward and go, okay, so I've just been, you know, I've been grieving, I've been dealing with this, I've been dealing with that. What are what's the fallout that I have around me? What are the things that I need to um sort of improve upon so that I myself am my best version of myself, just like you were the first time when you met that person. Um, you know, because most of us in our 20s slash early 30s, um, you know, you did feel that way. You no one would ever, no one would ever sort of have that. Um, you know, you wouldn't ask that question of them at that time. But if you were to retrospectively ask them, you're like, oh, you know, were you in a pretty good spot then? Oh yeah, like I felt really good. I was healthy.

Matt: 1:01:27

I was I was taller when I was younger. I was happy. I was walking. I was walking with both feet. It was an amazing time in my life.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:37

Yeah, exactly. So the like those are the things that you just take for granted. But now at this point, like it's almost like you kind of have to do your own, you know, your own little self-audit and go, you know, where am I? Am I am I ready to date? Okay, maybe not. If but my goal is to find a person. Well, what's holding me back from dating? Okay, it's this, this, and this. All right, let's start addressing those issues. Um, you know, I don't have enough time with the kid, you know, with my lifestyle the way it is, work, looking after the kids, doing all that. Is there an opportunity to, you know, get a nanny part-time even? Is there, is there, or if that's not in the cards in terms of, you know, obviously financial situations for everyone are different. Uh, are there family friends? Are there is there a community that you can get involved with, i.e., either a church community, it could be, you know, uh support group, whatever the case may be. A lot of times I've heard of of people even just reaching out in their local area and and be surprised to find actually there's a widow or widower group in this area, and we take turns uh basically.

Matt: 1:03:00

Watching kids, absolutely. You know, which's interesting too is to to piggyback, because I love how someone and I can't remember who posted this, and I'm stealing it. So if you hear this, I'm so sorry. I can't give you credit for it. Let me know who put this out there. But I think if someone actually shared it, which is you met your person and you were version 1.0 of yourself with your person, you're a 2.0 of yourself, your person dies, you're a new version of yourself you never expected to become, which is 3.0. And you have to get to know this person because quite literally, an instant you changed, right? Everything changed. And so now you're like feeling like this new person might need different things. Like, like I've realized for myself, and you touched on this. I'm like, there are things that if my wife was alive, I would never be outsourcing them the way I am. For whatever reason, there are areas of my life that I need help with for how I currently am. And it took me a while to accept the fact that I have to ask for help for these things. Like I just have to. Right, wrong, or indifferent. People can judge you or whatever. And you go, like, but that's the only way I can give attention to this area of me that needs attention, this part of my garden that needs weeding, this part of the garden that needs feeding, whatever it is. Because when I was with my wife, that version of my garden was totally taken care of, right? Whatever that means, right? And we're not even going into anything specific. And then post-loss, I'm like, ooh, that area of the garden needs a lot of help, and I need to address it because there's no one else to address it. So I I love how you said that. And with, and I think the other the other part that is important for people to hear is and you're you're kind of skirting around it without actually saying the word, but maybe you did a minute ago. You gotta have some intention in it. Now, hold on, let me back that up. If you're aiming at something that you want it to become, you need to have some intention to what you're doing. If it if it's just quite literally that you want to feel better about whatever and you want to go have fun, whatever that means to each individual, that's fine too. Just know that if that's what you're going in for, your mark may be off a bit. And don't be surprised if you're not finding what you think you're looking for. Right. Because that's what I did when I first tried to date. My my aim was off a bit, and I realize that now. I'm like, ooh, I wasn't really considering certain things that I when I met my wife, I was putting in the same parameters before, but I'm a different person now, right? And so now my parameters are gonna be a little different. Um, what did did you find? Like, was there anything that you were like, oh, I really, if you want to share, was there anything where you're like, oh, I really need to like get this part of my house in order before I date?

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:37

Or was it uh I mean, I I found the biggest thing because it was about just after a year. Or maybe it was like actually it was maybe just before a year, and it was just coming up on a year, and I was sort of contemplating, and that was that first relationship that I got into. Right, sure. Um and and it was sort of like you know, feeling things out and like giving yourself some grace too, to like, you know, you're gonna make mistakes and you're gonna not necessarily mistakes, but you're gonna, you're gonna have to, you know, navigate and you're you're in uncharted waters. Like you're not you, you know, no one here, just like you said, is it as was expecting to be here. No one was like, oh yeah, when I'm uh you know 45, I want to start dating again.

Matt: 1:06:35

Uh as a widow.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:36

What? Yeah, yeah.

Matt: 1:06:38

With with with small children, yeah. Right. Uh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:41

So no one, no one expects to be here. Um, but one of the things that let me tell you, in a radio, there's a whole yeah, there's a whole shitload of people out there that are not expecting to be for whatever reason, yeah, divorce and you know, loss and or they move for jobs and they realize that yeah, whatever it is.

Matt: 1:07:00

One of the things I look up and scream out internally many times is I go, This was not part of the plan. It's not well thought. Yeah, because it wasn't part of the plan. This was no plan. There's just we weren't planning on this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:14

This wasn't part of the I think the other thing, yeah, it's just allowing yourself some grace and allowing yourself some time to experiment, uh, you know, big thing like in in this house. Like I'm in the same house, so I had to, you know, take down pictures, move things around. Uh, you know, I was gonna start to date. So there's things that that I had to sort of prepare. And I was like, well, I'm not gonna, I'm I'm gonna be truthful. I'm I don't know how I feel about this, but I'm gonna find out because I'm gonna try it. And we're gonna see. If it makes me feel really uncomfortable, then I know maybe that's a good indicator of you know, I gotta hold off on that or I'm gonna wait on that. Um, so yeah.

Matt: 1:08:03

Does it I think I think that's bears repeating? I think that one of the things that people should definitely realize is that you should try some things and reflect on how does that make you feel? Whether it's something as simple as taking that picture that's always been up and moving it to where maybe it's not in plain sight anymore, or if it's something like emptying the closet, or if it's something and and then and then you sit back and you go, How did I feel about that? Am I okay with that? And if you're not, that's okay. There's no timeline, but I think we'd all agree that if it's been 11 years and your wife's clothes are still hanging in her closet, you you might you might need some assistance. I wouldn't, I wouldn't label anybody with anything, but you might need some help to to move past some things, and that's okay. And that should be the conversation you have with yourself. You're like, oh, I took the clothes out of the closet and I put them back in. I didn't like that. Well, if it's been that long, you might need some assistance to process that, and who knows what the block is or whatever, uh emotionally. But I I do appreciate you saying that. That um you trial and error a little bit, but you need to because you're again kind of referencing what I was saying, you're a new version of yourself that just kind of got born in an instant. It didn't come through trial and tribulation. You just woke up and everything had changed. That you might find things are different. Like what used to bring you joy may not bring you as much joy. What used to be our life becomes your life. Like I've had the conversation with myself being in this new house that there are things where I'm like, no, I'm putting that up because I want to, because I can't. Right. I don't know if my wife would agree with it or not, but I'm gonna do it anyway. There's enough homages to my wife in this house that I don't have to worry about it. But at the same time, I'm like, no. And then what my counselor was telling me was things like for a while, my wedding our wedding ring, dear lord, wedding rings were in a certain like I think it was in my socket. Remember in the drawer. Right. And they're rattling around. And my counsel was like, it's that random chance encounter that makes you feel good. And take them out of the drawer and see how you feel. I didn't like it. Two weeks later, take them out of the drawer again, didn't like it. Two months later, take them out. Oh, it doesn't, it's okay that they're not there. Let me go put them in the safe deposit box. So that's a really good thing to do, even with your dating, right? You're like, oh, I'm gonna go out and meet somebody. Great. I'm gonna we're gonna have I'm gonna cook them dinner at my place. They walk in and everything goes fine. They leave, you're like, I didn't like it, I didn't like it. Well, then don't do that again for a little bit. Or ask yourself, why didn't you like it? It's like because they sat in her chair. I didn't realize that was gonna bother me. Well, how could you realize that was gonna bother you? Because you'd never had a new person in the house to cook dinner before. So I think that that's a really big thing, too. That I'm glad you said that because I think so many times widow widows and widowers start dating thinking that things are because of what you did in the past was going so well and you were happy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:58

It'll work again.

Matt: 1:10:59

It'll work again. It might, but the chances are you're gonna have to change it up a bit because that's right, you're different. The person you're, you know, the person you're going with doesn't have the history that you've built, doesn't even you're coming in this whole thing new. And it's so it's like you may have to make some adjustments on and and and and I like that you also said sit back and reflect and back, how did that make me feel? Because I think that's a big one, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:24

And I a lot of journaling, I found in the especially in the first year journaling about those, like having taking the time to write down your thoughts, not every day, not but when it strikes you, when you can create a moment of self-reflection, really powerful. Like really nice.

Matt: 1:11:44

Do you did part of or all of the refuge in grief?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:47

Yeah, I did, I did the um, yeah, I did her online course um in full. And then and then, and then here's a little tidbit on that too. Like that that's a good, actually, that's a good gauge of sort of finding out where you're at too. Like um, when you're when you talk about gaining perspective, when you get exposed to, I forget what she limited it to, I think there was maybe 50. I just gotta be saying 50. Yeah, 50 widows and widowers in your group, and they're all posting their stories, they're all posting, you know, and I was like, I had to limit myself the first day of it, or I wouldn't say first day, like first couple weeks. I was like starting, I was reading a lot, and then I'm like, I can't read all this. Like, this is crazy. There's just so many, you know, triggers and stories and stuff. I was like, I gotta limit um just because I knew that how it made me feel was some were good, some were not so good, and then some were just downright like that. Like you said, 11 years with the clothes in the closet, and you're like, whoa, like I I, you know, I don't ever want to get to that point um or feel like that. But I mean, I guess that's why the perspective is so powerful because you get exposed to so many different situations.

Matt: 1:13:22

Well, where where everyone is in their in their in their path and you realize like, yeah, yeah. I'll make sure I put that in the show notes because that this one comes up a lot, this refuge in grief. And she's done a real it's Megan, right? That did a really good job. Yeah, she does a really good job of it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:37

Yeah, I would I would recommend it to people. I would just say go in with the the knowledge of, you know what, I'm gonna do what feels comfortable to me. And the only way to figure that out is to try it, is is to try it, and and you'll soon figure out what your tolerance level is. You'll fit you'll figure out sort of, yeah, I'm gonna do this prompt. I'm not gonna do this prompt because it's not speaking to me. I don't really, you know, and that's and that's totally the way she does set it up. She she explains that at the very beginning, but you quickly get inundated with everything that's coming at you.

Matt: 1:14:18

Have you gone back and read any of the stuff you wrote that first?

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:23

Uh I I mean, I have a not recently, but I I have the journal. And and yeah, and it's funny because I mean, I know I spoke to this before, but I mean, a lot of like example in your situation with Marcy, like you guys have had you had that opportunity to make uh, you know, that legacy video, um, do those kind of things. You know, obviously Lianne and I didn't, uh, you know, but Leanne was an avid journaler. And like I've said this is prolific. Um, so you know, I have access to basically every journal since she's written since you know the age of almost like 13. Wow. Um, all the way through, which is amazing. Um, and it it you know it gave me a crutch to fall back on, especially in that first year of um, yeah, of basically re you know how they say it like there's this that that thing, I forget who said it, but you have to rediscover the person that you were with in order to let them not gonna say go, but let them be the person that they are now. Like they are in your life as a memory and as the person that carrying forward with you, but they're not with you. So you have to do that work, at least that's what I found for me, is to go back and pay homage to all of that time, and her journals were the key for me, like to do that. So it was pretty amazing.

Matt: 1:16:09

Yeah, yeah. What well, and that's a it's um we'll have to re-articulate that because it is true. You you have to find a way you're right, because they're no longer a person in your life, they're a memory in your life, and how do you how do you bring that memory forward in a healthy, stable way? And to each person, I think that's individual, right? Um but it's a very interesting because they're always kids, no kids, they're always gonna be an influential person in your life. Having kids just means that they're half of them or DNA or staring us right in the face all the time, right? And so there is no denying that their impacts on the planet, but it's an interesting. I'm really glad you shared that too, because I think I think a lot of people myself included, go, well, it worked this way last time, let me try it again. And it's like I I'm quickly coming up with an analogy of like, just because you went fastball, change up curveball and got him on three, right? You struck him out, it worked. That's kind of a reverse analogy, I guess, of the strikeout, but it worked. You come to the mountain of the same hitter again. Guess what he's expecting? One of those three pitches are gonna come up, right? And if you don't do like change up, change up, curveball, he's knows a fastball, right? And so it's like you're gonna have to mix it up a bit for it to work again. And I and just because you're successful doesn't mean there can't be nuances that you bring forward, but I think that that's a really big part of it too, is that you have to figure out what you did before because it got you where you wanted, uh, and then what you may need to change to get what you want now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:49

I let I like to think about it as what you did before worked, and then it it gave you that feeling that you knew because the love that you shared, the relationship you shared, so got you to that point. So if that's what you're looking for again, you know that feeling. Like you basically know how that feels. So you kind of have, and I know we talked about this before, you have a leg up on all the guys, unfortunately, guys that are divorced and you know went through the meat grinder in terms of the relationship failing. But if you had a successful relationship and you knew how that feels, so you're kind of going in with you have the end of the map, you have the you know, the beginning is new, but you know what you're you know where you're you know what you're looking for, right? So yeah, you do have to change up, you know, the beginning and sort of thing, but I think you're gonna get indicators along the way.

Matt: 1:18:56

And if you're honest with yourself, you're gonna be like, yep, that checks the box, or no, that's you know, it's not like I said you've a couple of times you mentioned feelings, and I think that maybe once the grief uh widow fog wears off, you can trust those instincts again. I I think that's a fair, fair thing for sure, because you do hopefully you do know what that felt like, and you can trust your heart and your feelings again that you're like, oh, that feels this this feels good again, right? Whatever that means to you, and whether it's you know, you're on your second date or your third date or 30th date with someone, you go like this. I like this again, and I remember because this is how I felt uh when I was with my person. I think that's awesome. Uh, anything else top of mind for you out of Canada, sir? Anything else that you want to catch us up on? You play a little hockey, got some ski trips, boys are doing what snowboarding.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:57

Yeah, we're doing doing lots of activities. Is outside hockey season is back up for the boys. Awesome. And uh, you know, your change up, change up, curveball, basketball. I mean, both of them we're we started when we started indoor workouts for baseball.

Matt: 1:20:14

So there you go, right, right in the wheelhouse. Yeah, Blair. I mean, I'm I'm on the other person. We're on the other spectrum. We have started uh a ballet gymnastics combination class, and I gotta find her apparently a karate class. That's the other thing she wants to learn. I'm like good. I'm thinking jujitsu. I'd like to see her throw kids around. I think that'd be more less striking, less striking, more um more uh more throwing of kids.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:38

So a little uh a little uh just trying to think um from the back in the day when uh like 1980s action movies. Who was uh jujitsu champ there?

Matt: 1:20:55

Uh they're uh the Steven Sagal. Steven Segal. Yeah. It took me a minute. Yeah, these close combat stuff, yeah. That's right. Um I'm like not John Clan Vite, yeah. That's totally different. No. Uh so yeah, so we're on a different spectrum, which is fine. We do a lot of princess bubble parties and stuff, but it's it's great. It's fine, it's wonderful, can't be better. So the sports are coming up eventually. So, well, man, it's always good to catch up with you. Um, I'm glad everyone's doing well and you're healthy and uh things are going good, and we'll catch up again soon. Yeah, we will.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:27

We'll have some uh, you know, we'll probably definitely have some news to share and stuff like that going forward. So we'll we'll hook it up.

Matt: 1:21:35

All right, brother. Thanks for your time, man. I know it was late, and uh we'll talk again soon.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:40

Yep. Take care, everybody, up there. Cheers.