Matt: 0:31

Hey, welcome to another episode of the Solo Dead Podcast. This is Matthew, or Matt is usually winds up, and I've got one of my tribe of allies, I think is the word I use. I have Paul on with me. Paul, welcome, man. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02: 0:49

Yeah, I'm doing all right. Uh today was uh a Monday, but that was mostly work issues. But yeah, it's um pretty good day so far. Uh can't complain, I guess. Or I could, but you know, I don't want to go too long.

unknown: 1:01

Right.

Matt: 1:02

Well, why don't we start alphabetical and let's do the airing of grievances and uh like the festivist episode. Uh someone may have been binge-watched like all the Seinfeld episodes recently late at night. I don't we won't name names, but um well, yeah, Mondays. Well, you're you're a little south of me, so I'm guessing you did not wake up to snow like I did today, which was entertaining.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23

Um definitely no snow here. It was cold, it was 51 and it got up to the 70s today.

Matt: 1:29

So that's chilly for where you are. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31

Yeah, I mean, over the weekend it was in the upper 80s and 90% humidity, so typical, you know, but weather.

Matt: 1:38

Right. Take, take, take the good with the bad. So um, so as you are probably keenly aware of, uh, April is autism awareness month, along with a couple other awareness months. I've been I've been pointed out to that. There's some that would impact us solo dads. And as part of our our group, you were kind enough. I asked, and you were kind enough to volunteer your time and talk about your your kid, one kid that has autism and on the spectrum, and how the loss of your wife and the kid's mom and how grief kind of plays differently in an autism world, I think, is pretty significant. And so if you can maybe start with the the hard, well, one of the harder parts, which is how did you come into widowhoodness as sometimes we call it?

SPEAKER_02: 2:29

Sure. Um, so it was December 30th of 2020. Um honestly, it was a pretty typical day. Uh I was off of work, uh, mostly for the week of Christmas anyway. And um, we did some running around, some errands. Uh, we also uh would foster dogs in a rescue group. And so we actually had to pick one up from the vet that morning, uh, had to get uh fixed. And you know, typical day throughout the day uh comes 6 30. I think it was about 6 30, 6 45 at night. Um my daughter comes to me and I'm sitting on the couch saying that mom's on the floor, there's something wrong. And um I had actually had ankle surgery just a month before, so I was actually still in a cast. I was in a walking cast at the time, but I was, you know, so I was kind of hopping on one foot, but sure, yeah, yeah. You know, ran into the bedroom and found my wife collapsed on the floor. Um, we called 911. Uh, I was Red Cross certified still, so I started CPR and um EMTs arrived within minutes by 745. Uh the EMTs had called it right then and there. Um, they could not get her heart started again. And so this was, you know, all in the course of about an hour. We went from a pretty typical nice day in December after after the holidays had settled down and um you know, to losing mom, you know, all in that short period of time. Wow.

Matt: 4:03

Which which I know that you've got three, right? You have three kiddos. Yeah. Which which one, not that it, but it was the oldest, middle, or youngest that found?

SPEAKER_02: 4:11

It was my youngest. So she was 10 at the time. Um when she's the one who found her after she, you know, she got out of the bathroom and was walking past the bedroom and saw mom on the floor. And uh well, that's kind of how it that started off. Autopsy multiple weeks later, um, saying it was sudden cardiac arrest. And so part of the autopsy suggests there was some sort of congenital heart defect, but um you know, some of it was kind of inconclusive too. But so just wow.

Matt: 4:44

Oh man. Not that I know my family has a history of of heart issues. Does her family have it?

SPEAKER_02: 4:49

Was it uh not that we know of not that anything like outside the norm or anything like that, right? Right, nothing outside the norm. Um you know, her her grandmother had passed away several years before of of cancer, um, but nothing we know of with in terms of heart conditions now. Wow.

Matt: 5:07

Oh man. Okay, so that's December 30th. So like right after Christmas, right before New Year's. Um so the l the youngest found her. So at that point, um, we all know it's the grief concussion that goes off and it's kind of a haze. Um kind of maybe go how the three kids like whatever you want to call the initial phase, how how did each of them handle the loss of mom? And I know in our off-air notes, and then because of the holiday break, like how how quick did you guys go back? And I can't see no one can see using air quotes back to normal and kind of like give me that feel, I don't know, like the first month or something. Like, how did each one of them and yourself? Because man, that's yeah, that's a heck of a thing.

SPEAKER_02: 6:00

It it was tough. Um, so being down here, we uh we had only moved down to Louisiana um in July of 2019. So we had a year and a half here, and six months of that was pre-COVID.

Matt: 6:13

After that, you know, so no nor yeah, no normal.

SPEAKER_02: 6:16

There was no normal, right? Right. So you know, closest family was up in Ohio um, you know, after it happened and and you know, the the funeral home, you know, took Misty away and everything like that. Um, my mom flew out the next morning. I had a coworker come go pick her up at the airport. And um, so we had at least one other person around that's family.

SPEAKER_04: 6:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 6:41

And you know, for the first week it was shock. Um you know, I look back at it and I laugh a little bit um because I I think I'm gonna be talking about routine quite a bit here, but you know, the next day was New Year's Eve. And oh yeah, yeah. Oh geez. So, you know, a tradition that Misty, my wife had started was is that we'd have New Year's nachos.

Matt: 7:07

And I'm well, I'm already a fan of this tradition.

SPEAKER_02: 7:11

Yeah, you know, so you know, I'd make make up a bunch of ground beef, you know, nacho cheese, salsa, um, guacamole, all the toppings, stuff like that. And I'd be like, that would be hard of our that and like um appetizer type foods would be our dinner for New Year's Eve. Love it. And it was probably two o'clock in the afternoon the next day, and uh my son Dominic comes over. Are you still making New Year's nachos? Wow, and I was like, I have to, I can't not make them. I mean, you know, any spark of anything that could resemble normality, absolutely, right? Yeah, and so you know, we still did New Year's, we still made New Year's nachos.

Matt: 7:58

Um now, real quick, pause. Have you seen, and it depends on what side of the fence you're on, where they do the nachos like on the island of the kitchen? Have you seen this video?

SPEAKER_02: 8:09

Oh, yeah, I've I've I've I got picture evidence of doing it. Um have you done it that way? Have you done it?

Matt: 8:15

Like, oh, that's what I'm talking about. Like, because some people are like, Oh, that's disgusting. And I'm like, I don't know, I'm kind of down for it.

SPEAKER_02: 8:20

Like, I would deck out the kitchen table with aluminum foil, and so yeah, that was another thing. Misty saw that video when we did it for I think the first time we did it was like the last day of school. That's awesome. And then um, yeah, and so I I've done that a couple times, and okay. We didn't do it for New Year's that time, but no, that's a that's a lot to hand.

Matt: 8:41

Well, so now real so staying folks with the nachos. I'm assuming you probably didn't have everything you needed in the house, so out you go.

SPEAKER_02: 8:47

No, we actually had everything. Oh, you did you?

Matt: 8:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 8:50

Yeah, so um, you know, the as as sad as this is, you know, it's one of those coincidences, right? Um, we were at Target shopping that morning. And we picked up all the stuff for nachos and everything we needed for noodles. And like I said, I was still in a cast. I was this putz driving around in a little motorized scooter with some crutches hanging on it.

Matt: 9:14

Oh, yeah, I know. Oh no, I I remember I ruptured my Achilles. I I know exactly what you just went through, buddy. I'm like, oh I know the cast. I'm in my room right now.

SPEAKER_02: 9:22

Yeah, so we were at Target and I'm in one of those stupid carts, and Misty's checking out in front of me, and there's this old couple, you know, just holding hands, talking, and she points. She's like, That's that's gonna, that's us, huh? And that's who laughed about it and you know, situations. And wow, but yeah, we did have everything we um we needed.

Matt: 9:42

Well, hey, like, hang, hang on a second. What like I can see again, we're people aren't gonna see the video anytime soon, but I can see like that little sentence and that little moment means a ton to you. Like, I can see it. That what and I know unless it you know we what the hell is normal anymore, but like if this didn't happen, you it probably would have meant something, but it means a whole lot. Like, that's just an amazing. I don't like it, it's really hard, but we know this comes in a weird way. What a gift to have that etched in a memory of yours. Like, what what a great, like that's really, really endearing, man. That's that's I know it's it's hard, but you know, it's that little moment where I mean you're talking what 12 hours later. Um if that, right?

SPEAKER_02: 10:28

Not even it probably less than eight hours later. Yeah.

Matt: 10:33

I mean, to know that that's what she thought, saw, and felt about you and your kids is amazing, right? I mean, I just I mean, I can feel it. That's really, really, really special.

SPEAKER_02: 10:46

And and and you know, I I could probably go on an hour on a completely different topic on on you know, digging into those depths and returning with gifts. And that is definitely one of them. So you hit that one nail up.

Matt: 10:57

Yeah, that's really that's really cool, man. So okay, so you did you did the nachos, uh, and Dominic is uh again, oldest, middle, youngest. Sorry, we didn't really.

SPEAKER_02: 11:08

Uh so he's 15 now. Um, so he um he had just turned 14 because his birthday's December 26th, so you know, four days before mom had passed.

unknown: 11:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 11:19

And so yeah, Christmas is this, you know, Christmas, Christmas, Christmas to New Year's is is one um gauntlet of uh emotions. Wow, yeah.

Matt: 11:30

I yeah. I I know off air we were talking about. I have my what I I know for me now, four and a half years out or almost four years out that I have my my season of melancholy and I kind of emotionally and prepare myself for some stuff, but man, what a week that's gotta be. Man, yeah, oh man. Okay, so nachos are made. Um, how are the other kids doing with New Year's nachos? Were they just kind of again? This is all I'm sure it's all I mean, you're just now getting to a year, year plus out right now.

SPEAKER_02: 11:59

Yeah, it's where it's 15 months now. Yeah, um, I I mean it was it was kind of a blur. We went through the motions. Um, you know, kind of I'd I'd honestly say it would be more like zombie mode and just kind of, you know, we we did it because, you know, that's what we were supposed to do, right? And um, you know, and then then the next couple days after you know New Year's ended and everything, and we just kind of went through the rest of Christmas break. Um it was right before school started again. And I and I sat down at dinner with the kids. Um, one of the things we've always done since um since Ashton, my oldest, was was a baby, was we sat down for dinner. And um so sitting down at dinner, keeping that routine the same, uh, you know, I asked the kids, I'm like, Do you guys want to go back to school on Monday? And this might have been a Friday or Saturday, and and um you know, my oldest spoke up first and he said, you know, this it'll be a good distraction. I just want to get out of the house. Um, because you know, this is where mom died, too. It was in the house, right? Right, and you're on winter break and yeah, and so you know, there's no w nothing to do, nowhere to go. Um and the other two agreed completely. And I I said to myself, I'm like, okay, well, if they're brave enough to go back to school now, then I should be brave enough to go back to work. And so we all went back to school and work all at the same time.

Matt: 13:34

And I know in your notes you said uh, and again, I use the analogy of like, I was lucky enough where the company I worked for was like, you take all the time you need. And I the joke I tell people, I'm like, listen, if Facebook or Instagram said I was in Australia, you know, four months after my wife passed away, I'd be like, Yeah, whatever it says, because I have zero, it's just a fog for me. And you're talking about in the notes, like, I went back to work, but I don't know how much work I was doing, Bob, right? Like, is this from the office space? Like, I wouldn't say, which hopefully whoever you work for gave you some grace because I we I'm sure you're in some widow groups and I am too, where like there are some people they go back to work and like their company has like you know, the typical like you get a week off and they're like, all right, come on back in, and they want them at full capacity. I'm like, you're talking about a human that might maybe be operating at 25% capacity and expecting them.

SPEAKER_02: 14:26

And so I got a little grace, and oh yeah, I'm you know, and so I got a lot of grace. Um, you know, some of my responsibilities were moved or postponed. And um, I have five people working for me that, you know, for the most part are really strong independent workers. And um, to be honest, you know, they kept the they kept it all rolling while I was sitting in the office with the door closed and crying on the floor kind of thing. Um, so you know, I showed up for work. Um, if it was something with a deadline, I was easily able to get it done. All those B tasks that are like really important that don't have deadlines and are kind of nebulous, those you know, projects that can improve things but aren't necessarily urgent, yeah. But those are the ones that were pushed to the back burner real quick. Um, but you know, as soon as something came up with a deadline, it's like, okay, I know I have to do it. I can I can at least muddle through it.

SPEAKER_00: 15:22

Right.

Matt: 15:22

Yeah. So you're back at work, the kids are at school. Um, did they receive any any counseling immediately upon repeating going to school? Did you have anything lined up before they went back? And then what about yourself? Like, because I mean that's a that's a heck of a thing to walk back into school on. And I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 15:42

Um, so nothing through the schools. Um, I think my youngest um really had the benefit of having um some really good teachers, one of them who uh had lost their dad when they were a child. And so they had fully understood what was going on. And uh Dominic with his special education program is in his um his IEP is individual education plan, um they were used very easily able to, you know, adapt and adjust for him um any kind of things he needed, emotional support and uh support with you know focus or something if you can't focus that day, you know, letting him take a break. Um that kind of stuff was really, really helpful. And uh my oldest he seemed to be going along just fine. Um he said a couple of his teachers talk to him and and he said it was worth it and and it helped a lot. And um in terms of counseling for all of us, I think we I'm trying to remember when we started some family counseling. It might have been I think I started to get the ball rolling in February. So, you know, a month and a half later. And uh I think after everything February, March, and April, we we kind of did some sessions, both family and individual. And um, you know, I was reassured, at least from from from the counseling sessions, that I was doing it right because they said, you know, you guys seem to be a strong family unit, you're strong together, you're grieving properly. If you really need to continue seeing us, you know, make appointments, but if not, you know, we're cool.

Matt: 17:21

And um did your did your kids kind of have a frankness about them or how did they kind of if mommy, if you went for the feedback and the therapists, you're doing a great job, like what were some of the great things that off the top of your head that were coming out of that? Like how you said you're a strong family, like I mean, being a 10-year-old and finding mom on the floor, that's just I can't imagine. And obviously, a year out seems to be doing well, like how like what are some of the things that you think you did well, or or as a family, like what yeah, how did that and because obviously each kid's needs are different because they're different humans, like so kind of run me through that too.

SPEAKER_02: 18:01

Yeah, um, I mean, you know, first I I think I'll start with myself. You know, I tried to be, you know, honest and upfront, right? And so um if I was crying, I wouldn't go hide. I wouldn't, you know. I mean, there was times when I would, you know, be crying in the shower in the morning, but sure, yeah, in private, but not hiding it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not hiding it, but you know, if I if I was in the living room and that was happening, I wouldn't go and hide it. Um that's awesome. You know, I I have always continued to talk about mom, or you know, if something pops up, you know, bring up a memory. Oh, mom used to love doing this, or mom hated doing, you know, both positive and negative ones, right?

Matt: 18:38

Well, what were we doing? What were you just talking about? The holiday that you came up, you were you put in a and the kid said what about the about the ham, right?

SPEAKER_02: 18:44

Yeah, yeah. So Misty hates ham or hate and and so you know, cooking it and you could smell the ovens like, oh I can smell the ham, and and everyone else likes it, and like, oh, mom hated that.

Matt: 18:55

Or um I made totally okay to talk about it, right? That's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:59

And and then um, you know, I I made a birthday cake over the summer, it was a peanut butter cake. Misty hated peanut butter, and uh you know, the kids would bring that up too. And it and it's like, you know, you know, you bring up those positive and negatives just because they're all memories, and that's what's important.

Matt: 19:16

Well, the memories and they're it's true though, right? Like just because the person's not here doesn't mean the truth isn't still true, right?

SPEAKER_02: 19:23

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt: 19:24

That's great. Okay, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:27

And then um, and then you know, other other things were, you know, especially because of Dominic's autism, um, keeping routines. And you know, for him, sensory overload was always an issue. And it and if you just threw something new and new at him, like he wasn't expecting it, he wasn't prepared, it you know, especially when he was younger, he a meltdown was really possible. You know, if we were um just sitting there watching TV or something and just surprised him saying, Hey, let's get Up and go to the grocery store and buy you a candy bar, yeah, I'd be excited. But the sensory overload of like seeing people and the noises and everything like that would still be stressful. You know, so to limit, you know, how can you get a bigger stress than losing mom, right? And so, you know, I was like, okay, um, Misty was a stay-at-home mom, and we would have dinner usually by you know, we'd sit down for dinner at 5 30, 6 o'clock every single night, and we'd sit down and eat dinner as a whole family. And I'm like, okay, well, what do I do? And so I'm like, well, I'm gonna leave work 20 minutes earlier so that I can get home and I'll cook dinner. Um, I still cooked a lot, and a lot of times I'd come home and I'd kick Misty out of the kitchen and finish cooking. Um it was a decompression for me and it was a break for her.

Matt: 20:50

Perfect. Great partnership. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:52

Yeah. And so um, you know, I adjusted my time at work, come home earlier so that I can, you know, start from the beginning and do all the cooking. And we, you know, we'd still eat dinner at the same time, um, still have the same kind of conversations. And um, you know, most of the routines were basically kept exactly the same as much as I could. And I felt like I was keeping the kids safe doing that. You know, they they know it's still a safe space to be in.

Matt: 21:21

You know, I I think there's two, three. Well, probably one that, but the two that I just took away was one is um I think from an outsider, if you haven't experienced it, like, well, they're just making dinner again, and like they're like, like mom was never there, right? Because you just fill in the gap and you got to do what you do. And it's like, well, no, part of it is it you want to keep because life for the rest of the duration is going to not be normal, whatever the heck that means. You try to find the normal you can, right? Like whatever, whatever little traditions, whatever little things you can do, because the rest of your life, day to day, minute to minute, is so wonky. And then the other one that I think we're talking, we talked about this a little bit too, which is like the honesty of it. Like, my daughter, even at four now, knows I must get a look on my face that's very specific. And it could be sometimes I'm making the bed, sometimes I'm exasperated from picking up toys, and she's like, You're sad. And I'm like, Yeah, she's like, You miss mommy? Yep. And it's not because mom would pick up the toys or anything, it's just like I you're doing it solo. And I'm like, I, you know, just the partnership, the kicking, the yin, the dance in the kitchen, whatever it is, like the person setting the table or whatever it might be. It's like, yeah, I miss her. And I'm honest about it, but and she now because it's a very because she also knows, like, you're mad. I'm like, I must have a very two very distinct looks. I'm also other things, people, but so right. So I think being being honest and also open at the same time. Like, there's a difference between like, and then not not not like you're saying, like, if I'm gonna cry in the living room, I'm gonna cry. That's being honest and open. Honest would be like, yeah, I cry, but I don't do it in front of my kids, right? And so I think the openness about it lets them know not only is it okay for them to do it, that you can be happy, sad, mad, frustrated, joyful in all those experiences and still talking about mom, and they know you're mirroring what's okay for them, right? So they know that like they can totally laugh at the fact that mom would totally hate this peanut butter cake, and that's okay because underneath there they might be a little sad, but laughing about it is okay too, right? Like that's the openness part of it. So good for you. Um, was there any new routines that you realized I gotta start doing this because we can't do X anymore? Or did you really try to just keep the continuity going?

SPEAKER_02: 23:33

Yeah, I tried to keep the continuity going. Um, but then I started, you know, doing a few things, you know, putting my own spin on things. Um, you know, and some of those things, you know, the kids I think appreciated a little bit more. So some of the chores got changed around. Um, Misty was really allergic to dust. And so, you know, dusting and vacuuming and cleaning was like a daily process. And and you know, the house is really nice and clean, but you know, there there's only so many hours in the day, right? And you know, so um the kids had have their chores. Well, I started saying, okay, well, we can we can skip today. It's not, you know, we don't have the negative ramifications of it as much as mom did. So, you know, those, you know, if you if you did a white glove on the table, you know, and there's a little dust there, that's not so bad.

Matt: 24:27

You know, and so I think like you said, like the ramifications aren't like if someone in the house was allergic, you would continue it. But again, it's totally yeah, totally understandable.

SPEAKER_02: 24:35

Yeah, and and so, you know, knowing when to let things slide and make everyone's life a little bit easier. Um, I definitely put some of my own spins on those things. And um, you know, even in then even things like I cook for dinner, I would change things up just to, you know, because you can always yeah, I can. And you know, one of the things that um, you know, Misty used to make fun of me for cooking was is like she'd be like, you can go into the kitchen and just start throwing things together and you'll turn out something. It may or may not be good, but you'll make something. Whereas she was always like, you know, get the recipe, look up the recipe, follow the recipe. Um, and you know, after she she had cooked it a you know several amounts of time, she'd be like, Yeah, she might put a little tweaks in it here and there. Me, you know, if it says, you know, two cloves of garlic, that's a suggestion on the low end, right? You know, if it's six, it's okay.

Matt: 25:28

And um you're like, let's see. Well, I've got I've got I've got six cloves. See what happens. What's the what's the worst that happens?

SPEAKER_02: 25:34

Exactly, right?

Matt: 25:35

And so you know kissing anybody good night. That's what's happening. Six cloves and garlic.

SPEAKER_02: 25:39

Yeah, yeah. You know, uh a few of those kind of spins on my own stuff, and you know, changing it up that way. And I think that's how um I kind of put my own signature on stuff.

Matt: 25:49

Is there anything that the kids requested if you try to change it like don't do that, keep it mom's way? In any realm, but food maybe. But I'm just curious if there's anything they're like, don't do that, Dad.

SPEAKER_02: 26:02

Well, there's definitely been been a few times where you know, if I'm making something and they're like, mom doesn't make it that way. Ah you're right, let me change it and I'll go back. Um that's good. You know, and um, you know, for Dominic's birthday, you know, we're again four days out from a year. So this was last December, right after Christmas. Um, and he's like, I want the lemon cheesecake that mom made me last year. And I'm sitting there going, I've never made a cheesecake before.

Matt: 26:37

Uh it's not easy either.

SPEAKER_02: 26:40

And but I pulled it off. It was good, it was absolutely delicious, to be honest. Um, so graham cracker crust, graham cracker crust, is that what the yes, graham cracker crust. Um, oh yeah. So and it was it's a more of a light and airy one, too. So um that was great. And yeah, so there's definitely been a few things that they've requested that mom's done that I'm like, okay, well, I'll give it, you know, the old college try.

Matt: 27:05

Give it the old dad try, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 27:07

Yeah, exactly. And you know, if it works amazingly, fantastic. This is awesome. Um, you know, and then some things don't work out. Like um, we used to have an above-ground swimming pool, and I closed it out last year, right before a hurricane blew through in October. So didn't notice that a lot of stuff got up underneath the tarp. And so when I when I pulled the tarp off in the spring, it was a green sludge of a pool.

SPEAKER_04: 27:38

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02: 27:38

So I tried cleaning out, literally vacuuming out tadpoles. And um, and then I find that there's a crack in the liner, and um, it was, you know, it was one of those moments where I had to call the kids out. I'm like covered in sweat and grime and grossness. And I'm like, kids, I know you and mom loved the pool, but it's broken and it's just gonna have to go away. And uh, you know, they were all a little bummed about it, but you know, they all they all kind of understood too.

Matt: 28:11

And they're like, Well, especially you standing there in the appreciation of the sweat, the mud, and the tears going like, man, I I gave I gave it a try, but this yeah, exactly. Right. Not to make light of it, but this pool's dead.

SPEAKER_02: 28:22

Like, right, essentially, yeah, yeah. Not to make light of it, but yeah, this pool's dead. It's not coming back, guys.

Matt: 28:28

Um, what I really kind of hearing that, I was struck too. The the whole part of what you just shared is it's interesting how we do this kind of dance of holding on to things, but also at times letting things go at the exact same time, right? Like, and somebody, I think I've kind of massaged it into my own phrase, but somewhere I heard about grief and loss and the partner thing that at some point your wife liked the pool, or you know, she had to keep the house clean because of her allergies, or et cetera. And at some point, it's really weird. We do this little shift where all of a sudden we go, Oh, it's no longer our life as a couple. I have to make decisions for your own. You're a singular. Now we'll continue to pay homage to them and think about well, a little bit of, you know, what would Misty do, what would Marcy do, if you will, you know, or what would they think about it? We knew them as better as anybody else on the planet, they're our spouses, and we can kind of hear what they'd say. And yeah, so routine, open and honest, that little dance of holding on and letting go, with were the uh do you think there was a an added benefit that uh because and it's Dominic, right? That is on the on the spectrum. Is it the added bonus for the other kids, like almost a uh a side pro effect that because of his needs, knowing that that routine was important, that that kind of spilled over to helping other kids, that you didn't go off the rails, you know, going like, well, I guess we can do whatever we want. You know, Dominic really needs us to do this so he can have a good day to day. Do you think, like, kind of like what do you think? Was there any pros or cons to that? Or what do you think how that worked with other kiddos?

SPEAKER_02: 30:03

You know, I I think the pro to it is is that um it kind of reduces anxiety as a family unit. And you know, there's definitely some times where it was very obvious we were doing something specifically um to avoid a meltdown, especially when Dominic was younger. Um you know, as he's gotten older, um, his coping mechanisms are are pretty amazing. And if I can give him fair warning on something, it's it's pretty easy to adjust. So um, you know, a con to that is is that you know, um, surprises are fewer and farther between. You know, it there, you know, it's almost like surprise by committee, like, hey, can we get approval for this surprise? It's no longer an absolute surprise, but it's just a really short notice.

Matt: 30:51

Um, it still works out great. I like that. I like that though. We don't do surprises, we do really short notices. I like that.

SPEAKER_02: 30:59

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, and and so that's I I think there's been a lot of upsides to that in general, just to maintain a routine. And plus, you know, as you said, it it keeps your anxiety down, right? So you're not spending time searching for your car keys or um you know, getting up in the morning and what to expect. It's like, you know, trying to keep those same things going and you know, keeps you you know on an even keel. And I think that's helpful in everything because we have to adjust it absolutely every aspect of life being different now. And you know, every decision we make went from an us decision to a, you know, oh, this is a me decision now. And you know, I I think one of the ones that I think I stressed out about a lot was um his IEP meeting. And so, you know, if you talk to most parents with kids on the spectrum, um handling the difficulties or the the hoops you have to jump through to get the school to give them proper services based on their needs can be really difficult. Uh I have to say that um the middle school and then the transition into high school, his freshman year, um, has been amazing. So we had an IEP meeting um with his middle school two weeks before, maybe three weeks before Misty died. And I was lucky enough to be home. I wasn't working because I had my surgery, and so I was off. And um, so I got to join in. Um, I have to admit, Misty definitely carried the majority of that burden um dealing with the schools. And you know, but it was a partnership. We we workload. We all we launched our workloads, and um, you know, I was really in hindsight, I was glad that I was there to um to work with them because then you know, two weeks later I'm working with them again, saying, Hey, here's a heads up. Um, Dominic's situation is very different now. And uh they were all fantastic in adjusting for him and you know, him getting good grades and getting out of middle school and then transitioning to high school, um, and then having to that transition, so January.

Matt: 33:23

So that's just this last fall he transitioned into high school.

SPEAKER_02: 33:26

Right, yeah.

Matt: 33:26

So just this last like September, whenever school starts for you guys, August.

SPEAKER_02: 33:29

Yeah, so I started in August. And so he was a freshman in August, and so he's just finishing up his freshman year of high school. And um, you know, we had last fall his first IEP meeting with the high school. And um, to be honest, you know, Misty was a note taker, she was really good at what she did. I even pulled out, you know, the packet of stuff that she kept um from previous IEPs with notes and things like that. And and she was sitting right next to me when I was running this solo. Um, I have to say I was really kind of nervous about it. But, you know, the teachers already knew Dominic's story. They had talked to the middle school counselors and knew Dominic's story from them, and uh everything that Misty had, you know, kept in preparation for all of this stuff. Because we used to talk about how worried we were going to be about that transition to high school, about the social pressures and all those things that um can happen.

Matt: 34:26

Well, right, not just as a normal freshman, right, yeah, coming in as uh with a kid on the spectrum with special, I don't like that word with assistance needed. I don't know, I didn't like the route I was going. I can only imagine. I I can only imagine, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:41

Yeah, and and so you know, they were accommodating, they were helpful, and you know, you know, I finished up that IEP meeting, and it's just like one of those like you've let out that big sigh of relief, and it's like you look over and it's like I I probably even verbally thanked Misty. I'm like, thank you for everything you have done um to prepare me for where I am now because I mean I was I was pretty stressed out. Oh, sure, but you know, but you know, nailed that meeting and um, you know, to be honest, I I was able to find something, you know, I and at the time I you know I wasn't I didn't know how prepared I needed to be or not. So um I'm a person who will go and research things and I will find you know primary sources. Um, you know, I think that leads to my PhD, but as a scientist, right? You know, so with a PhD and being a scientist, yeah, I I kind of have habits to the reason. And um, you know, and so making sure, yeah, I looked everything up I needed to to, you know, what what is compliance with the state and what it's helpful and everything. But you know, in the end, it was all over preparedness um because of how Misty had had it set up and the great teachers that that Dominic has this year.

Matt: 36:01

Well, going back to like what a gift, not that this was ever the plan, but the fact that she had those notes so well done, right? It was in her nature to do it anyway, but what a gift to be able to did one then transition into middle school to the youngest well was already in middle school because 10 to 11, that's feels no, that's like fifth, sixth grade, right?

SPEAKER_02: 36:19

Well, yeah, she transitioned into middle school. So she went from yeah, she went from primary school to middle school. Wow, middle school went from middle school to to high school, and my my oldest is a junior this year.

Matt: 36:30

Wow. Yeah, that's uh yeah, you that's a that's a lot, and it's probably better. I would say it's way better to over worry and over prepare than than under worry and prepare because then you want to talk about a surprise, right? That's when the train starts to go off the rails, in my own opinion.

SPEAKER_02: 36:45

And I and I have to say, I've um Misty was the worrier. I was the go with the flow one. Um, a lot of times we were opposites in a lot of things, um, but it worked, right? Opposites tracked, and and you know, and so taking on that responsibility of being that warrior um has been an adjustment. Um, my anxiety levels are definitely higher than they've probably ever been in my life. But um, you know, I I take on the challenge, and you know, yeah, this time's when it's exhausting. Uh today having that Monday at work, I like I said, I could go on for an hour just talking about all the complaints I've had with just what I had to deal with at work today, right? Um, but that's that's a that can be a typical Monday. And then um, but you come home or like I did uh my kids are on spring break this week.

Matt: 37:34

And so today's that's late. Yeah, I guess no, it's Easter Sunday, so I guess it'll like my oldest, uh, she was on spring break like mid-March. Like it was in, I was like, what do you mean you're on break?

SPEAKER_02: 37:46

Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. And so you know, they they they the schools uh their school district always has spring break the week after. So kids are on break, and I'm getting a text saying, Hey, uh, after you're done um with your meeting, would you be able to come home early? We can go out to the mall. Um, we convinced Adeline that she should go out too because they have a cheesecake factory. And so it's one of those moments we're like, all right, I'm working. Can I last minute make some adjustments and get out of work early? Yeah, I probably can do that. And the kids are springing on me, you know, short notice, not a surprise. Not a surprise. And so I'm like, you know what? I'll that's one of those things where you just say yes nowadays. Yeah. It's when, you know, you don't worry about, oh well, uh what is you know, what is my department head going to think about if I take off, you know, at two o'clock in the afternoon or something like that on a Tuesday. And uh, or you know, oh well, maybe the bills might be a little no, you don't worry about any of that stuff anymore. You know, life's short, if the kids want to have fun with something and it's not that impactful, go for it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:06

I think that you another good point you just brought up is like the readjust, the recalibration of true priorities.

Matt: 39:14

Like, you know, we got to keep them fed, we got to keep a roof over the head. But then there becomes things where you go, like, we know as anybody, life is not promised to any of us tomorrow, unfortunately. Life is full of some very unpleasant surprises or very, very short notice stuff, right? And at the end of the day, especially at the age bracket your kids are at, there are going to be some momentous memory making times you can do by skipping out at two or missing that Friday to go do the thing, right? And I think that especially when you have a layer of grief with it, it's not like a I think everyone should be able to justify it. I just think that we have such an intimate awareness of how precious time can be now. Now because we didn't get what we thought we're gonna get with someone that we really, really wanted to spend a lot of time with, then I think that that's kind of a thing. And it's again, I think it's something that it changes your calibration a little bit, right? Like I've I've had to do a couple of things where I'm like, this used to be super important. And after a little bit of time, I go like that's not nearly as important as it ever in looking back, ever should have been in the from the per, you know, from that it was like hey, probably that probably should have fallen out of the top 10 a long time ago, right? And oh yeah, and and you go, like, you know, it's kind of it's kind of like you can't have pizza every day, but every now and then, yeah, go have a slice of pizza and enjoy it. Like it's okay, right? So, um, so anything, so sticking with the kids' rule. Well, actually, let's go back to you real quick. Anything that you would uh uh specifically as a dad of three, and it is it two sons and a daughter, do I have that right? Two sons and a daughter, um, as a dad of one of each, if you will, one of or one from each category. Uh, is there anything that you read or anything that you found helpful or anything that you kind of for as as a solo dad with grief and loss, anything that you used as a or any just a parenting book or anything during your grief part that you're still you're still in now? And then anything kid related, like anything that you went with with them. I was just looking up something like there's like a uh uh why my brain just froze, a grief journal for teenagers. And I was like, why didn't I find this earlier? Like I should have given this to my oldest kid. So anything like that or anything anything you guys are currently using, or just yeah, yeah, you know, the the grief journal probably would have been something good a while ago.

SPEAKER_02: 41:37

Um, because I actually did my own journaling um when I started back at work, and it was actually like um what was it, the the widow was journey widower's journey podcast and and book um by her.

Matt: 41:53

Yeah, that's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:54

So that was that was the first, like you know, guys only group that I I ran across. Um and then you know, and journaling was mentioned. I believe I think I believe journaling was mentioned in there. Yeah, um, and then um it's okay to not be okay.

Matt: 42:11

Megan Devine, she's okay. Refuge, I think your site's Refuge in Grief. I'll put it in the show notes. Have never heard a complaint. Great journaling program. I probably should go do it.

SPEAKER_02: 42:21

And so I never like followed any of the programs specifically. Um, but I spent at least 10 minutes every morning with my cup of coffee before I started work journaling. And a lot of the times it was letters to Misty, um, just about what's going on trying to process and things like that. Um it slowed down after about six months, and then it kind of um, to be honest, I don't think I've actually I I I I grabbed it this this morning while I was at my desk and I was about to open it up and look at it, and then I got sidetracked by something else because there's always some fire to be always something, yep. And um, but yeah, it's probably been it's probably been at least two months since I've probably written anything. Um, but you know, I would it's still there, and I've definitely opened it up and I've I've read it to to really kind of look it back at where I was.

Matt: 43:18

And there's been a few times where I look at it and go, wow, I'm a very different person um than I was, you know, in January of 2021 when we were talking days out from Did you real quick with journaling, just kind of for my own, did you just so I know you mentioned letters to Misty, or did you were you just like journaling like how you felt, or was it just were you recapping the day before? I'm just kind of curious because I have a my problem is I'll journal and I've journaled throughout my life on and off again, kind of like in uh in spurts, and I've gone back and look at old journals and I'm like, why did I write down what I had for breakfast? I don't understand how this has germane it. And I've heard there's a difference between a diary and a journal, right? Like one is like a diary is like and a journal is like you just kind of free-flow. So I'm just curious, did you use any prompts or like with the letters to Misty? Was it just like what the kids did? It's really for me, and uh because I would like to do some more stuff because I think putting pen to paper really helps. I think it really does.

SPEAKER_02: 44:10

Well, most of it was like if I was writing a letter. Um, I can't, you know, the the vision that I had when I first started was like if I was a soldier out to war and I was writing back home, and I'm writing her letter where I wasn't there with her because she's now she's in a different place than I am.

Matt: 44:29

And I kind of that's a good analogy. That's really good.

SPEAKER_02: 44:31

So I kind of you know started it with those, um, talked about, you know, sometimes mundane things would pop up, like, you know, what's annoying me today, or you know, oh you know, I had this really good donut, or you know, it's something that's completely mundane. And if you look back at it six months later, go, why did I write that? Well, it was important at the moment, right?

SPEAKER_04: 44:50

Very true.

SPEAKER_02: 44:51

Um, you know, there was never really any prompts. Okay. But then uh one of the other things that you know really helped me quite a bit, which had zero to do with grief in terms of like jumping into this workshop for a grief reason. Um so with my job um myself in this multinational research project I'm on, um, they have these leadership workshops um run by it's called Olivier Mythodrama. Um it's out of the UK, and they do this for companies, and um, I'm not sure if they do it for individuals or not, but they base their leadership qualities on um archetypes and they use Shakespeare as a reference. Fascinating. So one of the ones is called the Transformer. And you know, a lot of it in terms of like, you know, if there's a big hurdle at work and you're trying to um to get over it, maybe you're you you're not either someone you can't get along with or someone that you really you're in a toxic work environment and you need to step away from that, you transform uh by digging into the depths and trying to figure out what you what is the basis of that issue. And part of that um part of that workshop was actually writing a um a dialogue with death because the idea was to literally kill your problem and then dig out from under it your solution. And so I had sat there and I wrote out a dialogue with death. Clearly, my problem was my grief, and my conversation with death was the most literal of sense. Why did you take Misty?

Matt: 46:55

Oh and um how fortuitous is that though, that you go to a work, like you said, you didn't go into this workshop for grief, but right.

SPEAKER_02: 47:02

Well, and to be honest, I I wasn't um I didn't attend one of them that was happening the month before month of January, but this was in February, I believe, of last year. And um the project manager directed me to it saying, you know, she she was like, I I feel like this might be a good place for you. Um because in other in other workshops like that, I've always was bit I've always been an open and honest person. And so, you know, going back to that open and honesty, I think that was something that was already something I did. And so then she brought that to me. Um and from that workshop, I it it really changed my thinking on the whole process. Um, and then the last part of it, uh I've put this quote up on um on some of the Facebook pages, and then um even you know, my memorial tattoo I've gotten on my arm, where um, you know, the the the very last phrase was do not persevere, dignify the shock, sink so as to rise.

SPEAKER_03: 48:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 48:10

And you know, this is don't persevere pridefully in your old life, transform knowing that you know everything is different now, but it's okay to sink to your lowest so that from there you can rise up.

Matt: 48:26

Wow, that's really man, that's good. That's really good.

SPEAKER_02: 48:29

And I actually I think I share, I think I shared it. I I think maybe you prompted one of the quotes, you know, like what's a quote.

Matt: 48:35

There's quote, and then there's also in the group we've we've had some guys share the tattoo, so you may have shared your tattoo.

SPEAKER_02: 48:40

Yeah, and so I think I shared both of those. And that's really good, man. You know, and and for months I was reading that uh script like daily, and um you know, thinking about how I died that day. And that, you know, and and I probably could pull up my notebook if I was at work, and there was um there's a few things I wrote where I was sitting in the ashes of our old life. Wow, and I need to stand up and and dust myself off. And and you know, that's where I I think at one point it was uh a light bulb in my head and go, Oh, that's why people get all these Phoenix tattoos. Yeah, yeah, myself just like that, like, oh, I didn't even realize that.

Matt: 49:26

You're like, this totally makes sense now. I never understood why people wanted this bird. And what what's the last part of your quote? It's so say that again because you say it a little differently.

SPEAKER_02: 49:34

Oh, so it was do not persevere, dignify the shock, sink so as to rise.

Matt: 49:40

Rise, right? So you rise up again, and in order to live again, you're gonna have to rise up. It doesn't make the event any less sad or any less significant, right?

SPEAKER_02: 49:49

Oh, it doesn't, and you know, and and I and I definitely think everyone, um, everyone has to sit in it for their own, you know, their own amount of time. And you know, uh, I I think I've been fortunate, uh, and uh to be honest, I I think that you know, being the widower in a lot of these groups where you are clearly in the minority, um Yes, we are. I have I have I have seen enough examples, you know, obviously it's all anecdotes. I have not done my research. Um, but I'm confident in saying that, at least in my own experience, um I've had people help lift me up and I've had people not keep me down. And I definitely see some situations where where people are sitting in their grief and they even try to get up, and then all of a sudden they're getting kicked and knocked down and criticized.

Matt: 50:47

I like I we this is a whole nother at some point. I need to do like an anonymous episode about in-laws just so everyone can have a safe space. But and I don't know what my in-laws hear, but I do know I am very lucky because you just referenced like you get in some of these widow groups and you hear like what some of the family does to people in their most utmost hour of need. And I'm like, what is wrong with some humans out there? Like you say, they just pull them, like, how dare you, you know, 11 years out, go on a date. You're like, uh like I'm like, oh boy, that's that's rough. So yeah, and who do you um if you who when you say like people were supportive or helpful, it sounds like you had kind of a mix of everybody, work, yeah, supportive, family.

SPEAKER_02: 51:37

So work was definitely supportive and definitely giving me the the the space to grieve.

Matt: 51:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 51:42

Um, you know, my mom flew down here and has basically been here the entire time now. And you know, has has helped tremendously. And and then um, you know, because I'd moved down here just before pandemic, um, all of my friends that I've you know, friends that I'd worked with for years or friends with that I've known, you know, where I lived in other states, um, clearly are in very different locations. Um, I have a friend in in the UK who, you know, we talk all the time and being open and honest with them makes, you know, it was always a great outsider look view, um, because they haven't experienced grief like this, but you know, they've always had they've always had my back. Um, and then friends that I, you know, friends that I grew up with that, you know, I had moved away from where I grew up 15 years ago. And, you know, they're calling and texting and chatting, and you know, it's all at a distance, but you know, during most of COVID, everything was at a distance, right? So um, you know, there wasn't a lot of face-to-face connections, but you know, and even my two brother-in-laws, um, super supportive. And you know, so those people around me um supported my decisions or at least didn't criticize them that right, right.

Matt: 53:16

There's a lot to that too, right? I mean, they could all be behind your back going like this idiot, but at least you know what?

SPEAKER_02: 53:22

If they are more power to them because they don't know about it, it doesn't really totally fine, right? Um, and and maybe it is all that distance, but then I gotta, you know, and then I have I literally have the physical space to get up and be myself too, um, and and doing all those things on my own. Um my mom being here has been an amazing help, but you know, that's just that that is the foundation that I then get to stand on and you know show that I'm doing a lot of this on my own.

Matt: 53:52

And so I would go back to, you know, whether it's finding a sense of community on the inside, right? Because we are the minority on in social media or in general, we just are statistically, but um, and then finding some, whether it's journaling or reading about it, to build your own foundation, because I wish I would have journaled a little more early on, I really do, because I would like to have some reflection, and I think that's pretty cool that you can go back and both be awed by it, but also also go, like, what was I thinking? Well, you were grief concussed, man. Like, I don't know why you wrote about the donut. I'm sure it was a delicious donut, but right, but you wanted to share it. That's okay. Um, and now what about the kiddos? Anything with the kiddos? Um, I know routine, but any any sort of um I know sometimes like uh like what about like some of mom's stuff or anything with journaling with them, or has there been anything for them that you found helpful um besides the open and honest and just kind of letting them yeah?

SPEAKER_02: 54:54

Um, you know, and actually uh mom's stuff is, you know, that that was that's an interesting aspect too that you bring that up.

SPEAKER_03: 55:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:05

Um and it's actually something I brought up uh I I would um, you know, I I think maybe one of the reasons why I didn't have to seek as much professional counseling was um on Wednesdays I'd be having these Zoom meetings with um mostly women. Again, obviously it's you know statistically just where we where we sit.

SPEAKER_00: 55:24

Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 55:25

Um, but it's you know, one of the young widow groups and um all the new friends I make. And one of the things I brought up a few times is is stuff because the conversation about you know, what do you do with the stuff, right? Um Misty was anti-stuff. Oh um, she did not like clutter, she did not like keeping things um just in case. Um so there wasn't a lot of stuff. Now, obviously, she had her clothes, and um it was it was spring of last year. It might have been, it might have been around this time last year, so maybe April, uh, where I had uh donated all her clothes to a uh domestic violence shelter.

Matt: 56:10

Very good choice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 56:11

Um, you know, I remember how hard that was. My daughter kept a few things that she wanted, um but you know, most everything else um she didn't. Um surprisingly, uh she kept all of mom's shoes because she's uh she started getting into the same shoe size.

Matt: 56:29

Perfect. I love it.

SPEAKER_02: 56:30

So yeah, it was perfect. So she just got a plethora of shoes. Um and then you know, the little bit of jewelry that Misty did have is is is now hers.

SPEAKER_00: 56:38

Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 56:39

Um, you know, other than that, there wasn't really much more stuff. And I think, you know, one of the things that was a benefit to that, um, as a gift, really, was that um there was a lot less things that would trigger grief. Um you know, I I I bring that up because I went into the drawer in the um office, the desk drawer, pulled out a post-it note, and there was a post-it note with her handwriting on it, um, talking about a couple Christmas movies that she wanted to see in 2020.

SPEAKER_00: 57:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 57:16

And I looked at that and and you know, moment of sadness. Of course. I let it I let it wash over me, and then I I moved along and used the post-it notes as I needed it with the kids on something. Um but there's not as many physical things to that were that were hard to hang on to that we had to get rid of.

Matt: 57:38

Um and you and your wife were have were together how long?

SPEAKER_02: 57:42

Uh so um this November would have been our 20th wedding in okay.

Matt: 57:48

Yeah, so so it's interesting. So you have a lifetime of like being together, which is which is well not like 20 years of being together, which is amazing. So my wife and I just blended, like we met, Mary, and did this all this within five years. So, like, and I this is a running joke that if anyone's listening to the podcast, I've heard this before. There's a and for someone who is so organized and so like not cluttery, anything that was sent like sentimental that she kept, it just wound up in a box. Like for someone who would have like poster boarded and did vision boards and like you know went through you know cycles of close and never kept much. And I was like, I found this I know fine, but like there's this box, and I open it up when this is like uh I don't know, maybe six months, and I open it up, and it's like there are random, there are pictures from her growing up just in there, not normally like she kept every time we took a major trip, she'd have a journal and she'd stuff it with our plane tickets and write notes and all, and then you have this whole journal to remember the chip. Oh, this box, it's from like birth to like two weeks before, and I'm like, Oh, this is the thing you decided not to organize for me. Like, it's why I joke with people. I'm like, I have to like scan a picture or like take a picture of a picture and send it to her friends. I'm like, uh, and I'm making this up, everybody, but like, what is the significance of you and five friends in front of the Louvre holding pink pom poms? Like, I don't know the story behind that because we were only together for five years, so I have to have all these like I'm like, oh, this is brutal. I'm like, this is the thing that you didn't organize, really, sweetheart. So I get the the the not in a bad way, but the lack of grief triggers real quick. Did you did you keep the post-it note? Did you do something with the post-it note with her handwriting?

SPEAKER_02: 59:21

Um, no, I tossed that one out. Um, just because all it was was two titles to two. Two titles. I just wasn't sure. Um, I I do have um notebooks with with some writing in it. Um usually it was like Christmas lists of what we're getting the kids for Christmas, books that she wanted to read. Um, and and she does have a trunk in the in the closet that has um, you know, her keepsakes, if you will.

Matt: 59:48

Like her. That's what we call them.

SPEAKER_02: 59:50

From the kids when they were little. Um her mom had, you know, and this was a tradition that we carried forward. Her mom had bought the newspaper. Um on the day she was born and gave it to her when she turned 18. And so with my three kids, we did the same thing, except for Dominic, because he was born at like 11:15 at night. Um they didn't have any newspapers left, so I had to buy the next day. Um but in any case, you know, and so some of those things are in there, and you know, and I've gone in, you know, I've purposefully gone into that trunk to to you know just to have a good cry here and there.

Matt: 1:00:28

Um the case isn't it interesting? I call it the the itch you can't scratch, right? Like there are the uh the most recent one was for me was our our anniversary, and which is in late February. And I remember telling, I think my mom was here and she's like, You already said, No, you can you can go back to your place. It's okay. I think I'm just gonna put on our wedding video. And I'm like, I just think I need to have this like cry, but then I put it on, and my daughter's like dancing to the music and stuff. And I'm like, what a weird, wacky thing this is. She thinks it's fun dancing music. I'm over here looking, you know, hearing my wife's voice and like having a moment. But sometimes, and I'm glad you brought that up. Sometimes, or actually, I won't even say sentence anytime. If you need to trigger it, that's where like the car comes into play so many times, right? You're like, put on the cry list before you pick the kids up or because we can feel it wherever the tension is in our body. Like, there are times for me, it's like right, it's right in my like soul chest, right? It's right in there, and you just go like, I there, I gotta have this because if I don't, it's just gonna build up or it's gonna go someplace else. So, yeah, there's nothing, yeah, diving into a good trunk for a cry. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, yeah. Um, so the kiddos, that's pretty. I think you covered that. Is there as we kind of wrap up here? Is there anything else that you'd want to share with someone who's maybe uh relatively new to grief or um especially dealing, you know? We I think in the group I kind of try to make a uh distinction between mine was terminal. So there's some things that are very lucky to do that. Um like we are very fortunate that my wife chose to do a legacy video, which is an amazing gift. Um, my dad died of a heart attack on a business trip when I was 11. So I know that also uh uh uh the um we call it terminal and what's the other one? Oh tragic, right? It's just it's just you know, they're not, you know, they're not there. Um, so maybe someone dealing with a tragic loss where it's uh something kind of sudden and unexpected. Anything you'd want to share with them or anything else that you have to say as we kind of wrap this thing up?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:32

Uh yeah, I mean, you know, it's it you you hear it in songs, you know, or or you hear it from from others, and you know, don't take life for granted, right? Life is short and unexpected. And um, you know, I I think we're all cognizant of the words, but we don't know how it feels until that happens. And um, you know, someone who's new in this, you know, it sucks. It's gonna suck. Let it suck. Don't try, don't fight it sucking because it's gonna suck no matter what you do. Um, and you know, let yourself feel and then you know dust it off and move forward as much as you can to get your job done. You know, it might be your kids, you know, if you're you know listening to the solo dad podcast or you're on the solo dad group, you're you you got kids to take care of, right? And that could range from diaper changing to teaching teaching them how to drive, which you know, my oldest I did last year, and my my middle son I'm gonna be doing real soon. Oh boy. So, you know, there's there's always new adventures. And um, you know, I I think back to those early days, and there's so many things that you just don't remember. Um, but you know I'm proud of my kids at every step, and I try to um, you know, I try to show it and um try to appreciate every moment I can.

Matt: 1:04:11

I I love the it's the amount of sucking it does is is uh I don't know if we can be expressed. We need a new English word for how how terrible it is. Um, I was recently interviewed for a podcast and he ended it with a couple of questions. And so I you're gonna be a guinea pig on this one. So um I really like uh this question, and it's there's two.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:39

One is if you could hear something from your wife right now, what would you like to hear from her?

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:00

I'd I'd like to know how how she thinks I'm doing. Um I I kind of think I know, um you know based on our mine and my kids' ability to smile. So beautiful. Um and laugh. You know, we we still get to laugh, and it's okay to laugh. Um to be honest, it would probably be um a sarcastic comment.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:31

She's that was definitely her her her shtick. Um, you know, she was definitely a master of sarcasm way beyond anything I could ever pull off. Um and it would probably include a smile and an eye roll, but um, I think she'd tell me how I'm doing. That's awesome.

Matt: 1:05:45

And then the second one that I had written down was and I like this one as well because it makes me think of a little bit either now or in the future, what's one thing if your kids hear this down the road that you would want them to definitively know about their mother?

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:06

You know, she was good at expressing it, and um you know, and it's a saying in the in our family, and it's a saying every single night. Um I love you always and forever, no matter what. And you know, that you know, if if if we have a family motto, that's it. And that that's what Misty created in this family. And um I think that them continuing to know and them knowing that their mom loves them, and that will never change. It doesn't matter what you do. Um, you get to be who you are, and you're still gonna be loved in this family.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:43

That's beautiful, man.

Matt: 1:06:44

Um thank you, Paul, for uh taking time out of what's a precious evening, as I know, uh, with being a solo dad. Um and thank you for sharing the the way grief impacted your family with autism. And um, man, I I I hope I hope every guy that I get to talk to understands that it truly is an honor and a privilege, and I'm humbled to share this time with you guys. It really means a lot to me. Um, and I hope that it helps you. And as as we also, as Ben and I as and Ken kicked this thing off originally, when we first released the first episode, we're like, oh, this is gonna be bad. And it's helping myself, and I think it's helping other guys. So I appreciate it, man. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:34

Thank you.