SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Plain and simply, it's gonna suck. It's gonna be the most horrific pain you've ever felt in your life. And even though it feels like it's going to end yours, you will wake up the next day and eventually you'll realize you can get that rock uphill.

SPEAKER_03: 0:30

Welcome to the Solo Dad Podcast, where we hold space and gather for widowers to share heartfelt, honest, and open stories of grief, their insights on navigating the journey after the death of their partner or spouse, loss, healing, and finding their way back to living again. I'm Matt Bradley, your host, and I am honored to join you as we explore the complexities of grief, the challenges of solo parenting, and the struggles of getting back to living, and maybe even some adventures of finding love again. In each episode, we'll sit down with courageous dads who are bravely sharing their experiences, insights, and lessons learned along the way on this journey, sharing how grief has impacted them, their children, and their lives. We might have a crosstalk conversation with widows and widowers sharing their experiences, the similarities and the differences in grief and being a solo parent. Occasionally we'll have grief experts on to dive deeper into the understanding of grief and healing. So whether you're a solo dad or solo mom, or a friend of a solo parent, or you're wanting to just understand more about this journey, you're in the right place. Don't forget to visit our website, solo dad.life, for more resources, episode updates, and to connect with our growing community. You can follow us on all the social media platforms, find our group on Facebook, look for us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and on the YouTube page. On YouTube, you can find more content and some behind the scenes moments. Just search the Solo Dad Podcast. And remember, don't forget to subscribe. Lastly, if you've enjoyed what you've heard or found it helpful or insightful, we would appreciate your support. Head on over to buymeacoffee.com slash the Solo Dad Podcast to help keep the show running and fuel our mission of supporting solo dads everywhere and giving them a space to have open and honest conversations. Thank you so much for being here and let's dive into today's conversation. Welcome to another episode of the Solo Dad Podcast. As always, I want to make sure when I kick these conversations off that I say my deepest, profound, humble and uh thankitude, thankfulness, guys, not even a word, um, uh to my guest, first off, Tripp, who's here today, taking time out of his solo dad journey to share his journey with us and all of you guys and gals that follow us. And then also, um, I always just want to say thank you to the folks that support us and that have followed this journey as we continue to grow it and dive deeper into what it means to be a solo dad, whether you stay solo or you wind up finding another partner. I think these conversations are super important. So thanks to the folks that listen and support us, and thank you, Tripp, for being here today. Welcome, bud.

SPEAKER_01: 3:31

Absolutely, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03: 3:33

Yeah, I'm gonna let people know how we're connected. We're connected through this social media thing called TikTok. I don't know if anyone's ever heard of it. And if you have fun, I'll put a link into his profile. I'm pretty sure he's fine with that. Uh Trip does some amazing singing, he's got a great voice. Uh, and I think we probably I think one of the first ones, and when the video comes out too, because it'll it will put some video out, you'll see that Tripp sits with I'm assuming it's not his wedding dress, right behind. I mean, I'm sure I could rock it. I mean, you could, but I remember I think one of the first posts I saw was you were in there, and just it was probably days after Cordy had passed. And so you'd already been on TikTok a little bit. Kind of a little bit take me through how that came to be, and then we'll kind of backtrack to your journey to meeting your wife.

SPEAKER_01: 4:21

Sure. Um, so I I like I'd said I I had been on TikTok for a while. I didn't really use it much, it was more just as a connection during the pandemic. Uh, I didn't really post a lot of content. Uh here and there I did, but when my wife had passed, I was in such a state of utterly lost. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to vent, I didn't know who I would speak to. I just knew I needed to talk. Um so I was looking into therapy, but getting into therapy. It's not like you just make a call and it happens. Uh, I was waiting for schedules to open up. So in the meantime, I essentially started recording uh videos on here because I looked at it as a sense of I could vent, but I didn't have to worry about like face-to-face criticism. You know, it was a way for me to blindly just say I'm in a vulnerable state and I don't have to have all these thousands of faces looking at me. Um, so I used the app of essentially in the beginning as a form of therapy and documenting what I was going through because I mean grief is something, or death I should say, is something I we all go through, but before it ever happens to us, we always assume it happens to everyone but us.

SPEAKER_03: 5:31

It's really good. There's two really good perspectives, by the way, you just shared. So so one about grief is, and I and I've written this down probably at least a thousand times in the past six years, which is grief, unfortunately, on the emotional wheel, is probably one of, and I should probably, there's probably a couple others, but that's like the only emotion um that is not uh publicly okay to be witnessed. Because I think what you what you the other part that you said is super important, which is the why we're fine if someone celebrates, right? We can we can get down with being happy and they had a success. Oh, I could see myself being successful, and I'm choosing these words real uh uh consciously. I can see myself doing that or being successful in something. Oh, someone cuts me off in traffic. I can see why Trip would be mad, I can get mad too. It's okay. Grief is tripp is sad and mourning over the death of his wife. I can't see that. I don't want to see that, I don't want to acknowledge that. And so it's one of the few emotions that is difficult to express publicly, but like all emotions, it will demand to be witnessed. And I think what you found in TikTok is it is a vacuum of being like, like you said, thousand eyes on you, but you can put it out there and you can see it being witnessed, right? By the likes and the follows and the comments, which you get a lot of, I get them too, where people are like, thanks for sharing. And so I think those are two really good points. And I think that it's interesting how a because TikTok's, I mean, people can converse with us, right? So it's not a total one-way street, but it's almost like we project out and we let people react, right? Which is fine, right? And so that's a really good point that you made about like I didn't you know, I was waiting for schedules to clear up. I who do I talk? It's not like you can go to the bar and be like, I just got fired today, everyone's like, Let me buy you a beer. Yeah, you can't walk in or wherever your place is, right? Can't walk in and go, like, my wife died today. Everyone's people just go, uh anyway, they usually say, I'm so sorry for your loss. Oh, that's difficult. So, unless you happen to know a crew of other people who've experienced, and everyone's grief is different, also because our people are all different people, right? So, even though like uh Cordy and Marcy could have died the exact same way on the exact same day, they're still different people to us, right? Like, because they're my wife and she's your wife. Even there, and even in the title wife, they're different, right? And so our grief is different because our relationship is different. Um, yeah, so so that makes a lot because I go if I go back and look at some of your earlier stuff, yeah, it is a lot of what do you think it's fair to say lost?

SPEAKER_01: 7:53

Yeah, I think lost is a very good descriptive.

SPEAKER_03: 7:56

Yeah, or like without a north, because lost isn't necessarily like no direction, right?

SPEAKER_01: 8:00

No, uh you know, it's and it's funny you just said without a direction because uh one of the things I'd always I had gotten my wife, because she used to work in conventions and everything like that, so I bought her a pendant of the North Star because I always said she was my direction, she was my my true north.

SPEAKER_03: 8:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 8:16

And uh so and it's funny that you say that because like when you no longer have that guidance that helps direct which way you're supposed to go, you feel just a you feel lost in the sea. Uh and the almost like perfect way I can describe um grief and how you feel when you're going through that is it's like being thrown out in the ocean in the middle of the night and you don't know how to swim, and someone says, Good luck now find land.

SPEAKER_03: 8:40

That's that's probably a very fair description, right? And and here's one of the other things I like how you say in the middle of the night, um, I use analogy of like the change that grief happens to us. This is one I use all the time, where most changes in our lives, whether they're intentional or unintentional, there's a process involved, right? Yeah, right. Even if like I had surgery on my Achilles, there's a process involved. I don't just wake up one day and it was it was surgic. Like I'd go see a surgeon, I walk right. There's a whole process with grief. You go to sleep one night in your one way, and you wake up the next morning with no no runway, no practice, no preparation, no intention to do it, right? And you wake up in the whole world and you have changed and you've had no chance to adjust. And it's almost like you say, it's like someone's like, listen, if someone dropped me in the ocean and they're saying, Hey, we're gonna do it on Thursday, well, I'm gonna train how to swim, right? But you wait like just in the middle of the night, someone comes up, throws you in the water, says, now swim, right? And you're like, wait, I had no practice. So it's an interesting, it's the it's yeah, it's the like the worst trial by fire on the planet. And also, like you're saying, and I want to kind of go back to this just a little bit, about the the TikTok part of it, which is it's a trial by fire, and no one else is going to um recognize that you're on fire. Yes, because they don't want to, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 9:55

You get uh I I almost think you could say you get bystander effect, you know, everyone's looking, but everyone thinks like, oh well, someone else will handle it, someone else will do something. So I I don't have to do anything, right?

SPEAKER_03: 10:06

Yeah. Well, and it's that platitude of like, if you need anything, just call. And one of the things early on in grief is we don't know what we need. No, right? And even if we could express it, we're not even sure how to do it. And so uh, if anyone's listening and I'll say I'm just gonna pick a random number of months, if you're in the first nine months of grief, all those people that said if you need anything, call, call them, make them pull your weeds, fold your socks, whatever, because it's not gonna be there. And no ding on them, life. There's a really good, I'm gonna have a talk about this at another time, but how other people's lives go back to their normal. It doesn't mean they don't miss their person or they don't miss their child, or they don't miss their aunt, or they don't miss their best friend. It's just different. And for those of us that it was our spouse partner, it like you said, our lives are so in sync and connected with them, it it's just a vacuum that can't be replaced. And so, again, it's not that they can be replaced by it like if a parent loses a child, I don't want to um, but I think that there's like people should just take the help, even because we as grievers don't really know how to ask for it, and we don't even know what, like, because it's kind of hit or miss, too, right? You could be like, Well, like, what was it, the classic meal train thing, right? Like, I had like it was me and a half a human. She was 13 months old. You know how many lasagnas I was eating for months, which I'm thankful to have, but I was like, you can only eat so much lasagna, man.

SPEAKER_01: 11:25

I I I I I got to such a point, I was so thankful the meal train was done.

unknown: 11:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

I I just I was while I was thankful for it at the same time, like, there is so much food in my fridge, in my freezer.

SPEAKER_03: 11:35

Freezer, right?

SPEAKER_01: 11:36

And I was at one point where it's like, I didn't want to eat the menu that the the my neighbors were planning. I was like, I just want to make something I want.

SPEAKER_03: 11:43

Right, right. Yeah, you don't want to, I don't want to upset anybody. And the other, the other thing I like too was uh during the meal train, um there are definitely certain um how do I say this? They're gonna okay, so there's some use this there's three categories, well, there's probably more, but there's three general categories now thinking of the meal train. I think this is a funny thought, which is there's those that are like, we're gonna outsource this, and you're like, sweet, send me all the pizzas, like great, I don't care, right? Or send me Chick-fil-A. I wait, they you know, pick this menu, we'll pick it up. Love you, thank you. It's a treat, right? Exactly. Then you have these people you look forward to because their cooking is just the bomb.

SPEAKER_01: 12:17

And and then you have other folks that you're like, maybe, maybe just a gift card, maybe just there are there are definitely some of those neighbors that when they were, I was the I saw like they were doing, they decided they were gonna do the home cooked meal. Yeah, you know, like I was like, oh, the one house that would have been great if they sent pizza.

SPEAKER_03: 12:33

Right, exact, exactly. Not not not they're not thankful for their efforts, and I'm not exactly maybe if you ever get on a meal chain, really assess it or the other one that I noticed was there was someone, what was their background? I cannot remember, but their food was so, I think because of my upbringing, like it was like the cream goulashes and the cream sauces and the like right like meat potato, it was so comforting to me. Not that other food wasn't, but like their background culturally, I was like, when I saw them, I'm like, this is gonna be so good. There's gonna be cheese and meat and pasta, and I'm gonna be so happy, and there's gonna be bread, and there's gonna be extra bread.

SPEAKER_01: 13:08

And it was like I had one neighbor on the entire meal train that I had no idea this gentleman could cook, and I just saw he said he was gonna do a home cooked meal, you know, you know, southern food. I was like, oh, that's the when I tell you I would pay this man to cook for me for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_03: 13:24

Love it.

SPEAKER_01: 13:25

The best mac and cheese I'd ever had in my life, pulled pork, pulled chicken, uh, collard greens, uh, cowboy caviar. Like he made all this stuff from scratch, and you could taste the love in every single bite.

SPEAKER_03: 13:38

Yeah. Yeah, I well, I what I would do is uh just uh if you're still near him, I'd just keep his name on file just in case.

SPEAKER_01: 13:47

He sent me all the recipes. That's why you can get ready.

SPEAKER_03: 13:49

Send me the recipes. There you go. Hey, could you send me I there? Yeah, anyway, so the meal train's great and the sports great. Um, so I I really do. We'll put a link into your profile on TikTok. Trip does a great job, he's honest. Um, I I really like the balance you put out there. It's not, you know, just you and your kids crying, it's not just you crying, it's not just you know, you outdoing stuff, it's everything in between. And uh, you know, humble share brag for you, you know. He'll in one TikTok he'll sing an amazing song with his great voice. And then the next one you'll see him curled up in blankets, basically just saying, I can't today. And the next one he's uh trying, I think one of the leaks ones I saw was uh I know it was a flashback, but it was yeah, was it pickles and sour cream?

SPEAKER_01: 14:32

Was it pickles and sour cream? Yeah, the pickles and sour cream, like pickles and no, it was it was French onion dish. That's what it was, right?

SPEAKER_03: 14:38

So you'll get the gambit, so don't think that it's just trip crying, it's it's all the things. And so um, I appreciate you doing that because sometimes I feel in grief we forget that even when we're sharing in in the social media space, that you know, yes, you know, I might have a real difficult day, but at the same time, my kiddo just did an amazing thing on the pump track riding your bike, right? So life is still happening. Um, and there's a great quote from uh was it the movie Crow, right? You can't rain all the time. Um, right? I love that's a great, it's such a great quote. Can't rain all the time. Um, so so you're on TikTok, you found that we'll call it cathartic and a little bit of I love one of my admins in our one of our groups says our Zoom calls, they're not therapy, but they're therapeutic. That's probably a pretty good definition of the TikTok part, right?

SPEAKER_01: 15:21

You know, you did a little bit on sex with the perfect way I would describe it, is it wasn't so much therapy for me, but it was therapeutic.

SPEAKER_03: 15:27

Right. It gets it out, and sometimes, you know, sometimes it's videos, sometimes it's journaling, some people talk therapy, sometimes it's zoom calls with groups, sometimes it's a vent session with a buddy or whatever, or or a pal. So I think that's all important. So appreciate that. So let's kind of backtrack to the unfort let's get us to the unfortunates that led you to having to for you and I being connected through grief on TikTok. Sure. So um you and your uh well, I I'll let you share it. So uh wife's name, uh Cordy. And so why don't you go to the case?

SPEAKER_01: 15:58

Cordelia for uh Cordelia was her long name. Cordelia short. Um I mean, as far as who she was, that we I don't think we have enough time on your podcast for that story.

SPEAKER_03: 16:09

We can do we can do multiple parts, but on part one, right? She is right.

SPEAKER_01: 16:14

She was she was beyond and for first and foremost the most loving person you'd ever know. A true loving mother, a workaholic who went above and beyond even in her work. She did the job of probably 20 people every single day.

SPEAKER_02: 16:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 16:26

Um, gave she was and I don't try to make things religious, but I would say she was the truly the the the blueprint of how a Christian should be. Because she's the only person I ever met in my life that loved as Christ, did everything. She she just didn't know how to hold grudges. She people could do the downright most horrible things, and yet she'd still see the good in them, even when they didn't deserve that privilege. Um, and that's something I I I envy about her because I I oh god, there are just people I meet, and then I want to deconstruct every single part about them and going why that person shouldn't be friends with me or with my family, all of that. And that just wasn't her. She saw the good in everything. She lived up to she had a saying she used to always say, which was if you can't find the rainbow, be the rainbow. And she she was the she was the rainbow, she was the reason the rainbow was even in existence. Um, and that's just her as a person, like incredibly talented, artistic. She did things uh when the pandemic hit, you would never know it hit. She created a she started with the old neighborhood we used to live in uh uh for the whole month leading up to April 1st. She did practical jokes on the entire neighborhood at night while people were sleeping, so they'd wake up and see something. Uh she arranged a parade for the Easter bunny and convinced me to put on an Easter bunny in the store.

SPEAKER_03: 17:54

That's a big I'm assume I don't know you physically in the world, but just from what I can tell, I'm assuming that was not a small Easter bunny.

SPEAKER_01: 18:00

No, sir, it was not. That was a very sick, very tall 6'1 rabbit who looked like he had just spent some time behind bars.

SPEAKER_03: 18:09

Mommy, why is the Easter bunny so swole? Well, he's he's he bulk of the biggest.

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

Kevin Santa got into a fight and there was a big there's There's a big thing.

SPEAKER_03: 18:17

He spent some time away.

SPEAKER_01: 18:19

Well, she also had me play Santa, which was the one role I think I was meant to be.

SPEAKER_03: 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:24

Uh but only she could do that. Only she could talk me into doing that stuff. Even Mother's Day, like the one day she should have been selfish, where she was entitled to be. She she didn't. She would she would put on an inflatable T-Rex costume with a with a sun hat and called it, you know, Momasaurus Rex.

SPEAKER_03: 18:42

Love it.

SPEAKER_01: 18:42

And delivered flowers to all the moms in the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_03: 18:45

Wow. Yeah. Even something that was that should have been her.

SPEAKER_01: 18:50

Yeah. No, she was the true embodiment of it's better to give than receive. She just she loved seeing people smile. And she knew how to do it.

SPEAKER_03: 19:04

Man. So that's one cursory audit of who she who she was is in this in this world. How did you guys? I I I obviously my guests feel something else, I have a little bit, and I try not to overshare. Walk me through how you met and then how you became from a me to a we.

SPEAKER_01: 19:25

I I thoroughly enjoy sharing this story. Yeah. I um so we were friends. We had met through a mutual friend who used to throw these most outlandish parties. Just, you know, if you were there, if you weren't basically out or at home, you were there. And we were both at this pris a mutual party this one time, and I remember seeing her and being just, oh my god, she's beautiful. I was smitten by her. However, she was at the time with someone.

SPEAKER_03: 19:57

Nah, I don't like this guy already easily.

SPEAKER_01: 20:00

So yeah, it just but uh timing, right? It yeah, it was it was timing, and she the way she tells this side of the story when I say this is how she was just crazy about all the silly dance moves I was doing. Like I'm telling her, like I was busting out the dance moves to impress. I was doing the lawnmower, the shopping yard.

SPEAKER_03: 20:19

Wow, you really were. You're getting deep in the repertoire.

SPEAKER_01: 20:22

I dug into exactly I pulled out the classics and not knowing this was like winning her over tenfold. And we just happened to just become good friends, and for 10 years we were very good friends. She saw me through the ups and downs of my relationships, even when I was engaged. Um, I saw her through her ups and downs, and then uh when it almost felt like it could have happened, she got married. And I went, Well, that's it. Now that's lost for good. Yep. But we still stayed friends, and but she kept inviting me to parties she was throwing, and I just didn't feel right going because I how do you hang out around someone who you know you want you feel stronger than a friendship with?

SPEAKER_03: 21:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 21:06

And I finally went to the.

SPEAKER_03: 21:08

Which isn't that an interesting like piece of like older wisdom, right? Like if I'm gonna pick random ears. Like when you're when you're I'm gonna go, uh when you're 18 and your crush is with someone, we'll just call it as serious as a relationship they can be at 18, you're still kind of like puppy dogging them around, still trying to like have probably some level of an ulterior motives on what you're doing. But then like you fast forward to being, I'll just pick like 30, and you're like, Yeah, yeah, that's probably not something I should do, right? You know what I mean? Even though you're right, right? Like some people, it's just fascinating how like just in the life arc where you go, like, you know, yes, we were friends. Yes, we'll probably always say hello to each other, but I should probably just put that friendship on a box and not nurture it on a shelf and not nurture it, right? Like, I won't not be a friend, but at the same time, it they're in their lane and I'm mine now, which is which is interesting. Yeah, yeah, cool. Not cool, but got to be a good one.

SPEAKER_01: 21:59

No, no, no, but no, it's it's the that's just the the perspective. Like when we were younger, I don't think we you know, we don't care when we're younger, like, oh well, they have someone like you you look at it as well, I can still, and maybe something will come of it, but then you as you mature, you then you do, you realize you need to respect boundaries. Right.

SPEAKER_03: 22:15

Yeah, you should. One should, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 22:17

And uh, and that's how it was with Cordy and myself. I just I kept respecting it, and I just because and it wasn't that I didn't respect the relationship, I didn't know if I could trust myself in that situation.

SPEAKER_03: 22:28

And I didn't want to great part of being mature, right? Like just know trying to knowing yourself and going like uh, you know, this this could not have a path that could ruin a friendship, so let me just exactly yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:39

And not even just a friendship with me, but like I don't want to ruin someone else's life. You know, I looked at it in the sense of it's not just it's it was no, it wasn't just about me being happy, it could potentially not only damage in my opinion, in my mind, I thought, damage not only my friendship between me and her, but then there's the other person who she's with that I'm also gonna hurt them. Again, it's there's so much to take into that account, but um that's that's neither here nor there. We um I finally went to a party uh that she invited me to, and she gave me the biggest hug in the world. Like she looked so excited to see me, and immediately I thought, oh no. Every photo you see of of me and her in this party for every photo, we're side by side. Like we look like we were a couple.

SPEAKER_02: 23:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 23:23

And it was the following weekend she lets me know that she and her husband were actually separating. That they, you know, they had filed, you know, they just it wasn't what it was. Yep. Uh, they realized they were just better off, they were good friends, they just weren't meant to be married.

SPEAKER_03: 23:36

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 23:37

And uh a friend of mine at the time who was with me heard this, and I remember we get back into my truck and he's looking, he goes, Yeah, do you hear she? And it was the first time I think I've ever done this. I looked at him and went, back off. Never to pull like you know, clean dibs or anything. But that was the first time I was like, no.

SPEAKER_03: 23:57

Only yeah, well, that's why you did it the one time. It meant something.

SPEAKER_01: 24:00

The one time, yeah. And uh after that, we went on our first date. And the first date we're together, our her friend is playing in a band, we're listening to the music, and I don't remember what she was talking to me about. I genuinely don't, but I remember I was having this inner monologue of I need to know if we're more than friends, I should find out. And then the other voice is going, Don't do it, don't ruin the friendship, you don't want to do this. And then there was me who said, Screw it, and I just I leaned in and I kissed her. Oh, I was like, I gotta know. And I you know, I I pulled away and I remember looking, and she had this shocked look, and at first I went, Oh no, that's it, it's ruined. And her sm her confusion went into a smile, and she just looked at me and said, What took you so long?

SPEAKER_03: 24:47

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01: 24:48

Oh, that's oh and then from that point we were inseparable. Um, and about a month later, she proposed.

SPEAKER_03: 24:56

She wasn't gonna wait for you to make up your mind.

SPEAKER_01: 24:59

No, a month later she proposed to me.

SPEAKER_03: 25:02

She's like, Listen, this dude is well, most of us, if us men are being honest, most of us are um not quick learners, we're slow on the uptake, and so good for her for taking the reins on that one because she may she may have been still waiting around, right? Like, she's asked already, this guy. So uh, and obviously you said yes, so that's good. Yes, um, and then so uh blended family, right? Is that what uh yeah?

SPEAKER_01: 25:28

Yes, my my oldest is her biological daughter from our from her first marriage, but I've been in her life since she was turning about two, cool, and she is now 16. So I mean that's my little girl, plain and simple. Um the biological father actually passed when she was five. Oh, god. Um, I think seven actually. And uh right before he had passed, uh it was almost a month prior, he asked me to meet up. He wanted to talk with me, and he and I were actually good friends. You know, I had no issues with him at the end. Sure, we both looked at what was best for her.

SPEAKER_03: 26:04

100%. That's that if people can check their ego when there's kids involved, and I we'll just use the word co-parenting. It takes a while. It it takes I mean, I know people are hurt.

SPEAKER_01: 26:16

No, it doesn't happen overnight, it didn't happen overnight with me and him.

SPEAKER_03: 26:18

Yeah, but eventually if you can get to that spot where you're like, wait a minute, you know, we need to be able to function on a level that's what's best for the kid in the long run, and I think you're seeing it now as well. I see it with my older, uh, that if we can co-parent in a positive way, people can take that how they want. Um in time, the kid's gonna come out much better. Even if you've got to take some dings, and even if they have to take some dings, you gotta be like, okay, I gotta give something up so that in 10 years my the kiddo is gonna be better off. Like that's okay. Yeah, it's hard to do. I mean, I'm not saying it's easy. It took me a while to get there too.

SPEAKER_01: 26:52

It's one of those I'd even say as a guy, it's very hard to do because you have to check a certain you have to check your pride.

SPEAKER_03: 26:57

Yeah, yeah. I think you're right. I think pride and ego too, yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 27:01

You have to learn a lot of humility when it comes to kids, and it's not easy to do. It's very much not easy to do because early on in the relationship, of course, I was I was threatened by him because that's still her biological father. You know, I looked at it as I will always come second to this man.

unknown: 27:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 27:19

And uh so I I also never but I also never forced my my relationship with her. I wanted it to be natural, I wanted her to feel comfortable with me on her terms. So for years, I was I was trip, and I was okay with that. You know, she didn't call me dad or miss, she just called me trip, and then eventually she'd start calling me daddy trip. And then one day, and I cherish this memory so deeply as I do with all of my children. Uh Cordy and I were at the Bronx Zoo, and she gets off of the train that takes her around the zoo, and she runs up to me, and she as she's doing, she runs up with her arms open and she just yells, Daddy!

SPEAKER_03: 27:56

Oh core memory right there. Broke me. Oh, absolutely. Oh, so so you got the oldest, and then down the line there's my son is 10.

SPEAKER_01: 28:07

His maybe 11 the end of this month. Okay. And my youngest, my daughter, is uh nine. I had to remember.

SPEAKER_03: 28:14

No, you're okay. Trust me, I do it all the time. I have to do the math from the oldest to the youngest, or divide by pie, it's a whole thing. So um you and Cordy get married, life's moving forward as it does. Um, and then what what led to now? We went from the we becoming a me, now we go the other way. We go we becoming a me. Um, what led to to Cordy's?

SPEAKER_01: 28:40

I would admit I initially I lay I I I put the pandemic responsible for her passing. And the reason I say that, uh you know, my wife was always, you know, she was a social drinker, as was I, you know. Um but when the world came to a close as it did in that time, you know, she she worked in conventions and all that, a thing that requires people being face to face. And when the world shut down, that stopped, and a huge part of her purpose was gone.

SPEAKER_03: 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:16

And she did not know how to cope with that because of just she had a constant desire to always kind of show proof and worth. You know, I I I don't know if it's that she didn't feel she wasn't good enough, but she always had to almost outdo herself every time. And uh so when all of that purpose was taken, uh she became very heavily reliant on alcohol. And uh I I like to use the term, and it's not like I like to, but I I I prefer the term that she was a functioning alcoholic instead of an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_03: 29:56

Yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_01: 29:57

Uh you know, cause she she got things done, she fed the kids, she still made sure holidays had all that stuff, all the things you'd expect a mother to do.

SPEAKER_03: 30:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 30:06

And a wife to do. She did. You never knew she was having this inner turmoil struggle.

SPEAKER_03: 30:12

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 30:14

You know, but uh I tried to help multiple times. At one point we even got her into into the into treatment that lasted for just shy of a year.

SPEAKER_03: 30:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 30:25

Uh unfortunately, a neighbor offered her a drink and back down the hole we fell. Only it was a lot worse.

SPEAKER_03: 30:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 30:35

And uh wow. Um uh one day I I remember looking at her and her skin had started to turn yellow. Yellow and her eyes had started to have a yellowish tinge to it, and I I I was very you know, babe, we need to go to a hospital. And her uh her exact words to me were why? I know what this means. Wow. And I I I don't think she was accepting of the fact that she could die, but accepting of her fate, so to speak, in the sense of like this is what's happening to me.

SPEAKER_03: 31:17

Yeah, so uh you almost describe so my one of my best friends since the age of 13, it is a year ago this January. So almost ex almost exactly, was always you know, a perfectly normal social drinking person. And then the pandemic hit, and how he described it was his six-pack of beer that he had while he'd made dinner and had dinner turned into like noon beers, and the next thing he knows, he's hiding bottles from his wife, right? Like during the pandemic. And basically he passed from liver failure uh and some other complications. But I remember one of the times I was lucky enough to go see him before his health really took a turn and stuff, and I and I remember him going, guess he has a little and he was like, I really messed up because basically the gist is, and it sounds like your wife was kind of in this that space where he was like, I've sucked so many years off the back end of my life. Like I really messed up. And he was like, he almost resigned to the fact that he goes, I mean, I can drink all the herbal tea to help or whatever. The I'm just trying to throw so right, and he goes, It's just not gonna, it's not gonna move the needle. I really messed up. Because he wound up in a you know, like a was it medically induced? They wound up, yeah, they wound up putting him in a how did he wind up in this medical anyway? He wanted him in a coma at some point, and so basically he he went through rehab and detox while in a medical coma. So he goes, he was like, it wasn't as bad as it could have been, but you're like, woof. And so yeah, and it just, you know, it's such a nasty uh unfair disease, right? Because that's what alcoholism is. Um and the bummer is it's one of the few uh substances that is legal everywhere, right? And almost, unless you're a real like teetotaler, socially acceptable on almost every level, right? So other recreational things that people may or may not do, we listen, we don't judge, um, are acceptable in certain circles. In certain circles, right? Not in all circles, right? But alcohol is one that's almost uniformly okay, which makes it even like more devious, right?

SPEAKER_01: 33:37

That if someone Especially because it can be delivered right to your door, right?

SPEAKER_03: 33:41

Well, and and like and no one's gonna and no one's gonna judge you for it. Not not even like that. Right. Who does, right, right? Or you know, a bottle of wine with the dinner or whatever. And so um okay, so she so when when you saw her the the because my wife with her she had colon cancer and it was in her liver, and we had a jaundice moment, and it is it is unlike anything. Yeah, you'll I mean you you're just like whoa, like you're like, Did you rub orange juice on? Like it's just water, carrot juice. It's almost it's not orange, it's almost carrot, it's almost more orange than yellow. Um, so you see that, and I so it that hit home too, where I was like, I remember when my wife's eyes got yellow, and I was like, that can't be good.

SPEAKER_01: 34:24

Um at that at that point, I was I was still in a state of denial when that happened, thinking about it. So I want to pop real quick.

SPEAKER_03: 34:31

I want to I want to pause about denial though. I think that it's more about hope. Yeah. Right? You're right. I think that because denial sounds like we're not accepting that we're more like you know, in on a cancy journey journey, yeah, even though we made a pinky promise not to look up the stats. We looked up the stats and we knew that there was no happy ending for this, right? And but at the same time, you go like, but you're hopeful you're gonna get more time, or it's gonna rectify itself, or you're gonna be one of the lucky ones that goes on longer. Because I'm not in denial that my wife has cancer, you weren't denying the fact that your wife may have a problem with alcohol, it was more around the hope, right? Because I think I I'm a big firm believer, and you've probably heard me say this before, Trip, which is words have meaning and context matters. And even the words we say to ourselves matters, and they come out sometimes, right? And there are times like I just did where I'm like, hold on, like you weren't denying anything, you were just because you love your person, you're hoping.

SPEAKER_01: 35:27

No, that's that's spot on. Yeah, exactly. What I mean, I was I I I remember doing I was googling things of like how to like over-the-counter home remedies to help jaundice.

SPEAKER_02: 35:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:40

I would take her outside into our sun porch. It was like, you know, like the sunlight area, the right here I'm reading. It's it's you know, you need a lot, you need the vitamin D. I said, so we'll take you outside and we'll do all this. Meanwhile, even though part of my brain is processing what's happening, and I know this isn't good, but there's the other part of me going, no, no, no, no, but we can still fix this or at least slow it down. Yep. Yeah, of course. And uh she started having severe nosebeds. Uh one day, all of a sudden, she just started bleeding very heavily from her nose, and it I mean, it was like if someone had broken her nose in five different places. And it's just coming out. Yeah, it was all the time, and it was doing that twice a day to three times a day. Uh prior to that, she had also had to have a DNC because she was bleeding um vaginally for unbeknownst to me prior to this, five months.

SPEAKER_03: 36:31

Oh my goodness gracious.

SPEAKER_01: 36:33

Um, so she had had a DNC, and that ended up fixing that issue. Uh, and something I should also say that I I I don't know if I put on the thing, and I'm sorry if I didn't. Nope. Uh she had iron deficient anemia.

SPEAKER_03: 36:43

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01: 36:44

Okay, so losing that much blood was just she was starting to get to a point where she was going to the hospital almost every other week for a transfusion. Oh wow because of how bad it was getting. Um there was one point where her her blood count was so low. I remember she had fallen trying to go to the bathroom. I helped her into bed, and literally when they ran her blood count numbers, the doctor said there was just enough that was essentially keeping her alive. Like, that's why she couldn't walk. It's the the body was basically shutting down everything that wasn't important to keep the heart and brain going.

SPEAKER_03: 37:22

Right, yeah, that's exactly what he does. It'll just start shutting everything down.

SPEAKER_01: 37:26

Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Um, so again, not taking into account that the drinking was part of it.

SPEAKER_03: 37:31

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 37:32

I was thinking, oh, it's all these other things because for years we've battled the anemia and all this. Sure. And I thought that's what it was at essentially at first with the nosebleeds. Um, until one day she had what she had. I I my wife was the most stubborn woman too on the face of this earth. And I mean, obviously, because she put up with me for so long.

SPEAKER_03: 37:53

But right exactly, right?

SPEAKER_01: 37:55

Uh, but I I was assuming the nosebleeds were something to do with the anemia. I didn't know what so much, but I was researching. Well, if she's having them, because she did not want to go to the doctor or the hospital. She was like, Ferm, I'm fine, I'm okay. I'm gonna go for a nosebleed and they're gonna laugh at me, type of a thing. And I'm I'm trying to see her side of that and giving her the benefits, so I didn't do anything. And I remember I was researching, well, if a nose bleed lasts longer than this and XYZ, then it's an issue, and it never did. So she was looking at in the sense of uh, well, you just made my case for me because I'm gonna go. Check that box off because exactly, right? Yep, exactly. She's like, you even saw for yourself, everything's okay. And we had all these other medical devices, you know. I had something that was checking her blood pressure and her the oxygen, and everything, all that was fine. So she kept using that as a I'm okay.

SPEAKER_03: 38:44

The numbers are good, right? Yeah, yeah, again. Exactly. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 38:48

Um then one day it was a uh it was a Monday where two I no it was Monday. Uh it started getting really bad. I sat with her through the night, and then Tuesday morning crolls. No, it was it was Monday, I'm sorry. Uh, she ended up having four nosebleeds straight through, one after the other after the other, to the point where she couldn't even really remain conscious to hear a conversation with me. And I remember finally just saying, babe, you can yell at me all you want. If you want to leave me, you can leave me, but I'm calling an ambulance.

SPEAKER_02: 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 39:21

And that was the last time she could could coherently, at least in that moment, speak to me. Um, the ambulance came, they didn't even bother trying to do, you know, let's check her vital. They took one look and said she has to go now.

SPEAKER_03: 39:35

Yeah.

unknown: 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 39:36

They took her to the hospital. Uh, I then called our doctor, I called her mother. Um trying to as calmly as I can say, uh, so she's in the hospital again, but it's not like the other time it's really bad. Uh her mom arrived at midnight. Uh so Tuesday morning. We go to the hospital, and as we're going to the hospital, we pull in. The doctor's calling me saying, um, it's really important you're here because we want to, and I'm letting him know I'm there. You know, he says we we have to speak face to face. And I'm just thinking, because now mind you, the night before I had called to get an update because I hadn't heard anything. And a nurse says, Well, her her stats are really bad. They you know she's looking at a lot of fluids right now and a lot of antibiotics. So she there's they were telling me right now at this point that it was bad, but it wasn't bad, and that she just needed a lot of you know, R and R and getting basically a really good patch up. And I'm thinking, all right, fine, so it's bad, but we don't gotta worry. And I'm still planning in my head going good. When she's good, I'm gonna yell at her and say, like, see, I told you, I told you we should have gone to the hospital, thinking like I'm gonna have this I told you so moment.

SPEAKER_03: 40:50

Like, I finally have one I can pull out of my I told you so file. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 40:55

Um, we get to the hospital and the doctor pulls me aside and just he he says, you need to get whomever you want to get here because we don't know how long she has. And uh on uh Wednesday, literally the next day, and if you've never experienced this walking into a hospital, being greeted by about 14 to 15 doctors and nurses, it almost feels like you're being court-martialed. And I had all of these nurses who were working with her, who worked also with the certain doctors, every doctor, his assistant, every specialist, and a chaplain. That was the only person who wasn't medically there who was there. And I was still believing it couldn't be that bad until I saw I remember seeing the chaplain and thinking there's no reason this person should be here. And they gave me the whole rundown of we have done everything we can do, we have given her every medication we can give, every antibiotic. I said, but they said it's just all we're doing is prolonging the inevitable. And they gave me the options uh either hospice in the hospital or private hospice, which would be more like you know, she were home type of a thing, but it would be a facility, but you she would be home type of a thing.

SPEAKER_03: 42:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:36

And I just remember, I remember I didn't feel a lot other than I mean, I was emotionally distressed, I was depressed, I was crying, everything. But I remember it almost felt like an out of body experience.

unknown: 42:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:50

Because I kept thinking, this can't be real. There's no way this is real.

SPEAKER_03: 42:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:56

Um the only question I managed to get out was I looked at the doctor.

SPEAKER_00: 43:45

I still blame myself. I still feel like I didn't do it enough.

SPEAKER_01: 43:56

And the doctor was very just matter-of-fact, but in a good way. And just telling me, like, you could have been here weeks ago. He says, if anything, you just would have had extra time. Like, that's how bad it was. And I kept trying to ask, I said, well, what if I the second I noticed the issue with when she was going jaundice? He says, No, Mrs. By the time you saw it done, he goes, It was already too late.

SPEAKER_03: 44:23

Yeah, jaundice is a real tricky one, right? Like, um it's it's almost like the bodies how did they put it? Oh, I'm gonna mess it up, but it's almost like the body throwing out the white flag. Yeah. Almost, almost, right? Like there are times when it could be anyway, but it's like when you hit jaundice as an adult, I know kids can get it when they're born and stuff, but like it's it's it's at a point where it's the liver's way of saying, Um I'm done.

SPEAKER_01: 44:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 44:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 44:54

And uh I remember having to bring the kids, you know, because they were like, you know, you gotta, and I wanted them to have as much as I didn't want them to have that memory of seeing their mother, you know, hooked up to everything and all of that. And um I remember I worked it out with the doctor of if I'm gonna bring the kids, what can we do? When's the best time? And I they were telling me they were gonna do XYZ, you know, give her all these fluids and all of these, you know, they were gonna give her a couple of units of blood so she would at least be more herself. And uh they said just let us know the exact time because at that point then they would try to take as many IVs off of her as they could so the kids didn't have to see all that.

SPEAKER_03: 45:42

That that's actually really considerate, actually.

SPEAKER_01: 45:45

You know, it very much was. I I cannot thank I cannot thank the hospital and the hospice facility enough because they at least allowed her to have dignity, which is something I don't feel enough of us are graced with in our final moments.

unknown: 46:03

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 46:04

Um and above all else, I am very grateful that they got to hear their mother's voice one last time in a coherent they uh she said she at least got to say goodbye to all of them. And she looked at each one and said, just you know, some days I want you to know you'll be in charge. And she went down the line from youngest to oldest. She was there'll be days when you're in charge, and there'll be days when you're in charge, and then she looked at my oldest in her own way. She was her again, and she looked at her and she kind of scowled and she went, but never you. Um man. And they all got to hug her and say, I love you, mom. And I told the kids before going to the hospital, I said, We're not gonna say goodbye to mom, we're gonna say, I'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_03: 47:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:06

I said, because goodbye means we're never gonna see them again.

SPEAKER_03: 47:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 47:10

I said, We're gonna see mom again one day. And uh I got to give her one last kiss before she went unconscious and hear her say, I love you one last time. Then uh shortly after that, she went completely just nonverbal. And uh the following day we had her transferred to hospice. Um and it was around 3 30 in the morning on Friday that they woke me up next to her to let me know she was gone.

SPEAKER_03: 47:55

And uh so that's basically one week, right? Five days, Monday, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 48:03

It was basically a business week. Not even, it was four days really.

SPEAKER_03: 48:06

Because you said Monday night, Tuesday. Um you know there's a really appreciate you sharing, brother. Um there is it it's an um, I don't know if you've listened to the podcast, like go either way whether you have or haven't, but there's uh I use the term terminal versus tragic, right? And you kind of fall in between the two, right? It wasn't you didn't get a terminal diagnosis, um, but it wasn't also a car accident or a massive heart attack or a work accident, right? It was like it was so you kind of got a little bit of both, right? So in the terminal world, we get a chance if you're accepting of it, whether it's five months or five years of a terminal diagnosis, there's some runway there to process some things, right? And i i i i if one chooses to. I was blessed enough that my wife did a bunch of stuff to to really help with that. But when it's uh tragic, you know, it's it's that instant, and it's almost like you got a little bit of both, right? Where it was like it's really quick. No one came in and I mean they did eventually, but it wasn't like you know, two weeks before someone came and told you like this is this is going poorly. Um and it's just interesting to hear because I I've talked to both, right? And it's interesting to hear to see how like you're kind of in the middle with the way you feel, the way you dealt with it, what you had to do, right? The goodbyes and the the see you later, which is a horrible thing to say, but it's a bit of a gift that some people don't get, right? Which is not that we we're glad, it's it's but it's like there are people that are gonna get in their car today and they're never gonna say another word to the people they love, it's just the world we live in. Um and yeah, and you touched on the guilt thing, which I think is goes hand in hand with either type of grief, how we how it comes in our life. Um and you know, I I think that the doctor, you know, some sometimes we're lucky to have good doctors with good bedside manners. Sometimes we get the ones that are like oof. Um but I think you know, in in their own way, they were trying to tell you, like, you know, guilt is a guilt's a really interesting self-imposed feeling. It's one of the few ones that we no one else is putting it on us. We put on ourselves, and we're breaking some promise or expectation to ourselves that we they came from somewhere. It's not even no one else has told us this, right? And you're you kind of the guilt you're feeling is like, well, I could have saved my wife. And that's something you put on you. No one else told you that, right? And it's it's a thing that we feel, and then we kind of have to over time go through the process of like, well, you know, could I have?

SPEAKER_01: 50:36

Yeah, maybe survivor's guilt is very real.

SPEAKER_03: 50:39

It's a real thing, right? And I think real.

SPEAKER_01: 50:42

You don't understand it so you've been through it.

SPEAKER_03: 50:43

Well, and I want to put up I want to make sure people highlight this and understand survivor's guilt is not two people in a car and one person walks away. It is anytime a loved one or a close personal one dies, and you are left behind to handle some form of living again, whether you got kids, don't have kids, it's whatever. Because I think a lot of people do, like you said early on, the Hollywood thing of the movies of like, no, survivor's guilt is like, you know, you're in a car, three of your four friends, and you're the only one that walks away from a car accident. Yeah, that's one type of survivor's guilt. But there's all these other ones that I think that, like you said, people don't really Hollywood and what we see in society on screens and stuff does not do a good job of like, you know, I've never, you know, I can't say never. I don't think I've ever gone like, well, it should have been me, not my wife. I'm like, well, as the cancer doctors told my wife, you're saying your your cell zigged instead of zagged. Like there's you did nothing to deserve this. You didn't she ate more salads and ran more marathons than I ever did. And so it's like, you know, it sucks. It just sucks. And I so I don't have that part of like it should have been me have cancer. What I have is I'm like every day, and we're gonna kind of segue into this, but with the kids, is I go, my wife would be doing a better job of all these things. Now, maybe she wouldn't be doing a job in these other things, but all the things I feel I'm doing a shit job of. Yep. No, like she'd so be crushing organizing the the bills, or she'd be so be crushing organization of my daughter's playthings. They're oh you know, taking up half a house.

SPEAKER_01: 52:14

That is that is the hugest part of especially survivor skill. Like you said, I I've never once said, Oh, it should have been me, but there are times I've gone, why couldn't it have been me? Because God, all these things, just she was so much better at.

SPEAKER_03: 52:27

Right. Well, and that's why they are a person. They're there's a yin-to-a yang to that aspect, right? Um, so okay, so um you wake up 3 30. Yeah, they tell her she they they tell her they they tell you uh she has died. I don't like the nice words of past. No, I I hear you. Anyway, um, because there's only one word and you can't confuse it, right? No, they're in another place. Where'd they go? Uh because I'd like to.

SPEAKER_01: 52:53

I swear that's not with me, apparently.

SPEAKER_03: 52:55

Right. I would like to be able to text her. I have questions. Um, so anyway, uh, so she she dies. Um the kiddos had had a little bit of a moment. Yeah. Kind of I I the reason because I have a very core memory after my wife died with my little. I would like you, if you can, share what it was like either having to tell the kids or the going back to the house. Like, because I have a memory of my own that's a certain way with my little that um I just I will never ever forget. Um, I have several of those, obviously, but like kind of share as a solo dad, because again, I feel like there's a protector influence that happens where we go, I'm gonna actually this is how I'll segue it to you. Here we go. I found my brain took a minute. We are not supposed to be the ones to deliver this sort of pain to our children. Yes, and we have to. We're the ones that have to say the thing and watch their world crumble. So how did that all kind of go down and how did that happen for you and the kids?

SPEAKER_01: 53:59

Well, like you said, first and foremost, as parents, we are protectors and we want we don't want anything to ever hurt our children. And in this situation, we have to be the ones that hurt them.

unknown: 54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 54:12

In a way that there's nothing else like it.

SPEAKER_01: 54:16

Yeah, no. I uh I had sat by her side before I even left. I was there for probably a good hour. Sure. Just kind of crying, and uh I I left a few minutes before the funeral home was was showing up to take her because I was like, that part I can't see.

SPEAKER_03: 54:35

So pause real quick. I think that's actually something worth repeating. My brother-in-law, because my wife did hosteless at home, when she passed, he goes, You need to go into the other bedroom. And I know it's gonna be hard to hear, but you need to you need to try to go to sleep because what you're what you would have to see, you should not see. Now I know there's a lot of people who are gonna listen to this that maybe they didn't have a choice. Um there's some really great therapies for that because it can be physically, visually traumatized, like visually traumatizing. Um, it's called E DRM anyway. Yeah, but very spot on for you that um it is something that it is so how did my brother-in-law put it? It's so um not business like how do you put it? It's just very cold. It is not something that you want to see your loved one have to it's it's one thing to already see them gone.

SPEAKER_01: 55:25

Correct to know that they are gone. Yeah. Um when they woke me, I remember they they walked me out of the room, and then they were explaining, look, this is what's going on. We just don't want you to bear witness. They they they basically strip her down, they they cleaned the body, all of that. And yeah, and they they didn't want me to have those memories.

SPEAKER_03: 55:45

Good for that good hospice place wherever you're at.

SPEAKER_01: 55:48

Um they were phenomenal. They they spared me all of that, they didn't want me to see it. Then they called me in when she was ready. And the way they presented her in that sense of like they had her so beautifully and lovingly tucked into her bed. They they put the belongings I brought to her, like laying on her, they her special pillowcase that she called cheedy. They had her that actually tucked in her hands. Like they I cannot rave enough about this place for how the the beauty and the dignity they put into someone's last moments and the loved ones who have to be there. And they even gave me a countdown clock of we've just made the call, they're gonna be here in this amount of time. And my mother-in-law, she said her goodbyes, and then she let me, you know, she's like, as long as you need. And I remember I asked the staff, I said, I just I just want like a five-minute warning. You know, even if it's like right as they're about to pull in type of a thing. Uh, because I knew mentally I could not handle them putting her in the you know on the stretcher with the bag. I was like, I I don't want to see that. I don't want to see this. Um so then I left. I went to a neighbor's house at the time was a friend of the family, and I had a cup, I had a cup of coffee with them for about a good hour, trying to like wrap around my head, what the hell am I gonna tell my kids? Yeah, like they knew mom was not going, she would they knew she wasn't coming home, right? But it's another thing to say that to your children and say, look, mom's really sick, she's going to die, versus mom's dead. Yeah, those are two different sides of the point. Yeah. So I had to find a way, how do I tell my children definitively their mother's gone? And I rehearsed it every which way in my head, and at the end of the day, I just kind of went, there's no right way to say it. There is no right way to deliver news, other short of just saying plain and simple, it is what it is.

unknown: 58:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:07

And I remember I I put it because my wife, again, like I had said, she was a very faith-based woman. I I told them that mom was with God now. And that was all I needed to say. They clutched me and they were bawling. Yeah. Um, and I'm so thankful that my mother-in-law was here and her husband was there when we had to do it because they helped them so much in the sense of like when you're bearing that, like you want to try to hug each child, and eat and like each one of them grabbed a kid to hug.

unknown: 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 58:41

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01: 58:42

And uh I can I also cannot give enough credit to my mother-in-law who she uh she stayed with with myself and and our children. Uh she stayed here, so my wife passed in February. She was here all through February, all of March, and into April.

SPEAKER_03: 59:02

Wow. That's a gift, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 59:04

And she allowed me something I didn't I wouldn't have normally had, having to try to raise three kids if she allowed me time to grieve. And uh leading up to my wife's memorial and even after, I remember I just I shut down. I wasn't taking care of myself, I wasn't eating, I didn't care about myself, but I didn't have to at least worry about the kids.

SPEAKER_03: 59:27

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 59:28

She made sure they ate, she made sure what they were doing. She was she was a godson to allow me to essentially just shut the hell down and feel it. Yep. In the most raw moments instead of having to worry about how am I gonna get through tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03: 59:43

Or turn it on, turn it off. Right. Exactly. Or how how do I turn it off to the so like so I can parent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 59:49

Exactly. There are so many people who have told me to like you will you need to grieve in front of your kids and all that, so they know you're my kids knew I was hurting them, but ironically, it was one of those when they were around. I didn't know how to grieve in front of them. Because I was worried that I still had it to be the strong figure they needed, you know? Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:08

Yeah.

unknown: 1:00:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:09

So I I was afraid to cry in front of them. I can kind of one hand how many times I've cried in front of my kids since their mother passed.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:15

Yeah. Which you know, it's an interesting, like when people say, like, you know, they need to see you grieving. I must have got an a very specific look on my face for the first. I probably still do it, but not as often. We'll go like five years. Well, yeah, we'll go four. We'll go four years. Because my little, because she was again only 13 months, but there would be times like we'd be doing something, and she just kind of looked at me, she's like, Do you miss mama? And I was like, Yeah. It must have been a very distinct look of probably lawning and mourning, but she would pick up on it. Like whether it was like, you know, we're making Christmas cookies, and I'd be like, Oh my god, your mom would totally think this is the goofiest thing on the planet. Um and it's interesting. So, like bawling my eyes out, probably about the same thing, right? Probably a handful, maybe both if. But um and I and I think this right, I think the there's two things. Well, I want to go back to the there's a phrase that I've heard, right? Um, you can't heal what you don't feel. So, you know, kudos to your mother-in-law for hanging around and giving you the and I I need to go find how I wrote this up again. Someone early on um in my grief was like, Oh, they the the phrase that was kind of running around in a group I was in was like, you gotta give yourself space and grace. And I'm like, What the okay, yeah, I gotta fine, whatever. Yeah, I I I give myself permission to cry and be sad. And it took me a while to understand what there's for me, there's a deeper meaning in that. And part of the space is literally physically space, right? It's so hard to be a parent, whether you're this is the solo dad podcast, so we'll focus on the dad part right now, but even the moms, like I look back at my mom, and I remember one time, this is months, and I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but I remember just looking at her going, like, how did you? I don't understand, like I we lived a normal, whatever that means, life.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:01

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:02

And I look at my mom like, how? How I don't under like, when did you and she goes in the shower? I'm like, you know, that makes a lot of sense because in the first couple of years, my mom talk a lot of like midday shower. She was like, I just cried in the shower. I'm like, totally checks out, mom. That totally makes sense. Um, because that was her space, right? And she gave herself permission to to cry, but just not in front of us. So even with my mom, there was this probably feeling of having to hold it together and be strong because there's a great song, I'll put a link to it too. Uh, he sings it um Tom Jones, and it's uh if it's like I can't crumble when you fall. Like, in other words, like I have to stay strong. He's talking actually about his wife's journey, and um, but I think there's that in there that's really important. And you know, whether you call in the help, whether it is uh I love Bluey, and Bluey has an episode about mom needs 20 minutes and the dad's. Oh god, that let's not talk about that's a whole actually, I think we need to get like five guys on to talk about Bluey because I think it's amazing. But there's one where mom needs a lot, it has a lot, right? Like I cry all there's one that I cry all the time on. But anyway, the there's one where mom needs 20 minutes. She's just kind of had enough of the kids, and the dad does everything to keep him away. And I think kind of again, the analogy is hey guys, sometimes we need 20 minutes or we need, you know, um, we you know, I do a lot. One of my parenting things I do is there are times that I separate myself from my kiddo because I'm just not gonna parent in a space that is great. I don't not 100%, I don't do it all. I sometimes I parent in a bad way, right? And I don't I've afterwards I'm like, oh, that was not the best reaction to that. And then I apologize to me. I'm like, listen, dad, probably didn't know that the best way. Um, and so I think the space in grace is big, and because you can't heal what you don't feel, and so good for her for giving you the space to do it. Yeah and then I and and you giving yourself the grace of going, like, listen, you know, they're being taken care of. I can forgive myself for these months, weeks, or whatever, where maybe I'm not the you know, even the 50% of the dad I want to be, but that's okay because I one of the things, and I've said it before in the podcast, which is this like every other emotion, it's demands to be witnessed and felt and expressed. And if you don't do it, it's gonna show up. It's gonna, I there are there are people that are you know, on the outside, you go, Whoa, it seems like they are really cobbling together life again without just because we don't see it too. I'm I want to make sure this is clear, but from the outside we go, like, wow, they really have really you know, have they really had the feelings to heal it? And you know, and then I'll just jokingly fast forward 15 years of like wow, I I'm still sad about my wife passing away, and you're just like, Yeah, probably 15 years ago, you probably should probably should have a good cry.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:36

You you are 100% on that, and yeah, something I I I've never told my kids just as of yet, because they're still very young, even my 16-year-old that's still young. Yeah, I want to put that burden on them. But I something they will never know is if I didn't have them, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have been adamant about the fact of if if I did not have children after my wife had passed, I I would have I would have checked out, I would have joined her in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:03

Yep. I I tell people that like if it wasn't for my young, and I have an older one, but I'm like, if it wasn't for the kid, I I was like, I think I'm like, I would have just gone to a beach somewhere and probably done a full like jack sparrow and just drink rum until my face fell off.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:17

Like yeah, yeah. It would have been very similar to that too.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:19

You know how much it costs to be broke on a beach, right? It doesn't cost anything, but just find a nice beach where it never rains and just uh just enough money to no absolutely sounds like a good way. I'm like, oh sounds all right to me, right? Right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:32

What sounds wrong about that? Enjoying the sound of the waves until like you just don't hear them anymore, except internally.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:38

Yeah, sounds uh sounds there's worse ways, but yeah, so okay, so the kiddos have that whole moment and then we'll kind of segue into a little bit about let's talk about a little bit about like the support afterwards, like any sort of therapy both for you and the kids that you think was well in timed, and then I have a couple other little and give you an open space to anything else you want to talk about. But what about the therapy? Let's talk about support. You did a little bit about the mother-in-law, and then let's talk about uh we'll call it I don't know, we'll just call it therapy support, whatever that means to you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:08

I uh so obviously in the beginning when the whole process was happening and they were talking about hospice, I uh they they obviously offered, you know, we'll therapy. There's that exact exactly. And um the hosp the hospice center in which he went through, um, which again, which was I cannot thank them enough. Uh I don't want to be that person that gives them a shout-out, but it's a weird company to give a shit.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:32

Shout out to such and such hospice. Uh but they also offered um grievance care. Yeah. You know, like it to help you through it with for children and adults. So I um I signed, I signed up immediately just because I looked at it as even if I find it pointless, I want to at least start getting that was the one thing also that my wife was always on me on was to see th to see therapy.

unknown: 1:06:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:56

And I just kept pushing it off, pushing it off. So that I one, I looked at it as a way of this is me honoring something she always wanted from me. Lovely. And two, um, I especially I got the kids every service I could because I was more concerned about the kids.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:11

Of course.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:12

Um, you know, there's no way, like I said, I've been through every type of loss you can be through, but losing your person hits on a whole different level. And I just because I thought, well, today, right now, I'll be okay, doesn't mean I'm gonna be okay tomorrow. And that came very true because you know, I I I'm a I'm a year in. And I've even said that for the first year, I genuinely think it was more I was in the shock of it. And so the emotions were a lot, you know, were a lot more raw and intense because for a moment of it, you don't really feel anything because you're just so numb. And when it does hit, it hits harder. Uh and now you know, going into you know, into my first year, oh I should say my second year now, um it's more actual genuine depression because now it's the constant I'm looking everywhere and like she's not here, we're not doing this and all that. And the breakdowns aren't as much, but they are there. So that was that's what I guess looking into the future. I was like, well, that's why I want to get therapy. So I got the kids every therapy under the sun. Um, the social worker from the hospital was also phenomenal. Um, she handled finding therapy for us, she handled everything with the schools. She was like, You don't worry about any of this. I will email every school, all every all of their teachers. I never had to make a single phone call. The only phone call I had to make, which a quick segue, if I may. No, you're fine. Um having to do everything while while my wife was in the hospital with the funeral home. Because we no one makes plans ahead of time, or at least a lot of people don't. I can genuinely say do it. Yeah. Because when the moment comes, all I could think of, if I had to do everything I did for my wife the exact day she passed, nothing would have gotten done.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:11

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:13

Have everything done, so all you literally have to do is just make a phone call and go, okay, it's time.

unknown: 1:09:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:18

Um, so I'm thankful for you know, I'm thankful for everyone who in a even if it was a weird dark way, helped me through, helped me through.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:26

Yeah, and I think that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:29

And uh so, you know, I got the kids into therapy. They were seeing two different therapists. They were seeing a grievance therapist and a uh recreational therapist who was doing art therapy with them. Um my uh my oldest, she was seeing uh the grievance therapist, and on top of which she was also seeing uh, she still sees a cognitive behavioral therapist. And they helped her through so much. My uh my six-year-old, she liked and she still likes to play the whole, I'm okay, I'm fine, I'm good. You know, it's the age because there are times I'll go like, hey, are you okay with you know how are you dealing with everything, you know, with mom and all that? And she's I'm good.

unknown: 1:10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:10

And just recently, uh, you know, when we we talked briefly about her taking a a break mentally from with schooling and all that, she let on. It's basically it wasn't until it was a year that her mother had passed that it finally started sinking into her brain. Um, so the more of her just saying, I'm okay, I'm good, was kind of a uh oh, it's like like a self-defense mechanism to not have to talk about it. Sure. Because when we had when we talk about it, it acknowledges it, it makes it real. You know, it's like you're speaking it into existence. Yeah. So I I got myself as much therapy as I could, but my focus was always the kids therapy for them, therapy for them. And so again, you know, my doctor and my mother-in-law were like, you can only do so much for them if you're not taking care of yourself, though.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:58

Yeah, it's that kind of that put on your air mask first type situation sometimes. Exactly. There's a there's a balance in there, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:05

There is, and I had to learn the balance um of if I'm not taking care of myself, I I physically cannot take care of them. So I was seeking grievance therapy. I I actually had three three therapists at one point. I had a cognitive behavioral therapist, I had a grievance therapist, and then I had just an everyday Joe Schmo therapist. No, I'm not sure. Yeah, basically, yeah, yeah. Uh a family therapist. I'm sorry, the family therapist. So like you just check so I was seeing like everyone for every single thing. And honestly, it was beneficial because at this therapist, I didn't have to worry about. I mean, don't get me wrong, grievance therapy was great and it did wonders for me, but sometimes that's not what I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:48

Right. Yeah, sometimes sometimes it's just not we'll call it non-grief related stuff when you talk about and the interesting thing about therapy is like you could have the from your perspective, the world's greatest grief therapist from your perspective. Yeah, and you could give me their contact information and I'd be like, they're terrible. It's like shoes, like everyone's different. It's it's like the relationships. What works for one doesn't work for another. A lot of times it takes time to to feel okay with the therapist, if you will. So I wanted to let people understand that like you might find something that's grief certified therapy, and but you're finding like the family therapist with you all go do is the better one to talk to about stuff, and that's okay too. So don't give up like therapy is not for everybody. Well, not all types of therapy aren't for everyone, but you can definitely find a an avenue, like you said. Like sometimes I want to talk to the family therapist about how to plan meals. I don't know, but whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:43

No, no, and yeah, you're right. You you you need it's it's sort of like uh think of each different style of a therapist as like a different course in the meal.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:51

Yeah, that's probably a fair, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:52

Yeah, you know, and and exactly like you were saying, you know, just because we're having steak tonight and everyone, you know, 90% of the people might like steak, there's still that 10% that says, no, it's not for me. Right, exactly. So and you have to be open to the idea of sometimes you and and this was true with me with going through uh finding a therapist after my wife was just because you don't feel a connection with them doesn't mean they have to be your therapist. Uh I and I was realizing that that connection is very it's important because you're being very intimate with this person.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:25

And um I I came to real and it was actually my grievance therapist who helped me because I was thinking, well, it's there's not a connect. She goes, Look, you can tell them this. At the end of the day, they're working for you. So if you know you say it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit. She goes, It's not like they're not gonna, they're gonna be out of work tomorrow. They'll still have a job.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:44

Right. Sad but true, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:47

Yeah, yeah. And so that that definitely helped with finding the proper fit therapist, which is a very crucial part. Yep. Um and I I and I kept pushing, I also finally, in the sense of going through therapy, admitted this might be more than just for myself to handle. And so I spoke with my doctor a lot more openly, which was something I never used to do. Uh, and I said, Look, I'm having these issues emotionally and mentally. Uh, do you think maybe an antidepressant would help? And she put me on an antidepressant that wasn't doing so great and then found the right fit. And since I've been on it, honestly, it's it's been like night and day since I've been on the city.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:25

That's fantastic, brother. That's great.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:27

You know, it does it and and that's that's something too. I want I want people to understand. If you do want to seek a form of medication, one, no shame in it. But two, don't buy into the stigma that antidepressants take away depression. Because it doesn't. It just makes it easier to climb out of the hole when you're there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:46

That's a really good way to put it. And I think too, I think a lot of us, and I'm just gonna throw you in my age bracket, I think a lot of us with like antidepressants, some of the other we'll call them, I'll call them mental health drugs. I think they are so early when we were hearing of them in our teens and in our 20s, but they hadn't quite sussed out perfection, and there's different rights. It's almost I didn't know this. Fun fact uh, not the same allergy medicine works for everybody. I had no idea. I just thought everyone took clarinet and everyone's fine. Like, no, some people clarin doesn't work for them. I say, what now? Um, so the same thing with some mental health uh prescription drugs as well, is that they don't work the same for everybody, and there's also a nuance there where it's like uh there's there's there's a situation someone sharing with me. Like when they used to prescribe stuff for uh ADHD back in the day, they didn't think about weight. And so we right, we I remember having this stigma of like, oh, if you take this, you're a zombie, and then like they figured out like, guess what? The person that weighs 125 pounds does not need as much therapeutic medicine as someone weighs 250, and so they now have it in different sizes. You're like, huh. So because they just found the drug that worked and they were like, well, it helps them with their ADHD, but they're like out of it, and they're like, So, so there's a stigma. I think there's depending on how old you are, there's like these preconceived, like you said, stigmas or assumptions around these medications. And I like how you put that it does not cure your depression, you're not gonna not feel depressed, but it sure as hell helps you climb out of it, yes. Um, probably more efficiently and quickly than if you didn't have it. So thank you for sharing that, man.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:18

That's no absolutely and I think a lot of so many people feel like if they're still depressed, that the medication isn't working, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:24

Which is so interesting because I uh you know, space of uh vulnerability and in being honest, like I was, you know, uh I uh we'll go, I call it my season of melancholy. So Marsh died in late September, it's like my birthday, it's the holidays. We have a bunch of other it's our anniversary, and her birthday ruined St. Patrick's Day. Thanks. Uh because of St. Patrick's Day. And so then, like, we'll go like from like so it's someone like late September to like mid to late October March. I'm just kind of meh, right? Yeah, and again, I'm six plus years out. This last holiday season, I was more meh than I probably was in the first two years, and then like since, right? And I was talking to a buddy just the other day, lifelong friend, and he goes, It sounds like you were depressed. And I was like, say more. Like, I'm like, what is like I was I never like I was like, I just thought I was meh. He goes, This sounds like depression. Like I was like, huh. And so what do you do about that? And so I'm right, full disclosure, I'm gonna go talk to my doctor about like, hey man, I'm six years out, but every now and then I get this like I get this happened or this is happening, or I can't do what I used to do because my emotional tank feels like it's tapped. Like, and when I say used to do, I mean in the last six years, not 10 years ago when life was normal. Um, and so I think that's a really good point to make. And I think a lot of guys, whether you know, in uh this probably another great segue is because you were seeking and found help. And I think, and again, we're guys, so I've I've I am not a woman, uh, and so I I'm not speaking for you, but what I'm saying, us men really struggle to say the word help. Yes, we really do. I mean, there's a great meme of a guy like moving a couch down a down a street where he's got it like all hooked up to different like rolling chairs and stuff, and it's like a guy who you know, a guy who moving furniture by himself won't even add like someone else can come carry the like no no, I got it. Like, really? You have you have the mahogany desk that weighs 600 pounds. Hey, I got it, man. You can't just ask for help.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:19

Well, it's it's we we are so easily able to tell other people to get help or how to get help, but God forbid we do it ourselves.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:27

This is probably it's that horse to water thing, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:30

So in therapy, it sounds like it's going well for everyone. It sounds like it's been fruitful and good. Okay, is there many?

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:36

I have my last session next month, and I'm not looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:40

No, yeah, it's right, it's like it's almost that whole like the goodbye you don't want to have to say, right? Because you're like, wow, this has been really great. So therapy for the kiddos, and it's uh and I'm glad, and I will put a link in the difference of between like talk therapy, cognitive therapy, right? There's there's different types, and I also think you know what's interesting with grief in kiddos, and not that our grief doesn't change, but like the grief a three-year-old has, and I'm using my life, is different than the grief a six-year-old has, and it's gonna be different grief than a nine year old. Well, go all round up to 10 because emotionally her understanding is different, and she's also grieving something that she doesn't really know she lost. So it's almost like I'm sad about something I never really had, but I'm supposed to have it, right? But then you take like your 16-year-old who had a very intimate relationship with her mother, her, right? Yeah, her daughter, right? Had a very intimate relationship with her mom, and so she knows what she's missing. Where the younger one is like, Well, I mean, it, you know, I I was starting to have all these memories with my mom. It had some, but really, you know, we don't have a lot of memories that before five ish. And they're getting less and less, right? And so their grief is like, wait, I'm missing what I see out in the world that everyone else has, right? I'm using your quotes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:51

That's actually a a big factor with what my with what my eight year old is going through right now. Sure. Or nine year old, I'm sorry. Um, is because of the fact of like She as she goes out into the world and you know she she says how she likes to hang out with her friends, but she doesn't like to hang out with them at their house because they still have a mom.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:09

And she goes, it reminds her that she doesn't have a mom.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:11

Right. It reminds her of what she doesn't have.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:14

Exactly. It brings me back in a sense back to the whole having to tell them it happened in the first place. Because here's the situation, and I can't fix it because I I just there's no way for me to physically like there's nothing I can say, there's nothing I can do, right? Short of just letting her know that I'm there for her.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:35

But she has to process the emotion, she has to feel the pain, she has to be the one to cry the tears.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:40

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:41

And and that's with all of my kids. And it's it's it's the most helpless situation, not just for a dad, for any parent, to know your kids are hurting, and there is nothing you can do to help them.

unknown: 1:20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:55

And it's it's another one of those stresses that add on with from grief. Yeah. Because I mean, I can fix myself just as but as well as I can because I know how I'm hurting. I know how I'm feeling. Right. I only have an idea of how they're hurting.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:10

Right. And then again, like they, depending on age, they may not even have the words to express exactly how they're feeling, right? There are times I check in on my daughter and we'll be having a an emotional day, and I'll be like, So what is up with the, you know, what is happening? She'll just be like, I don't know, Dad. I'm like, that's a valid answer for a seven-year-old, right? Like, I don't know, it's fine. Like, um, and sometimes we just all have off days. So the therapy's going well. Yeah. You just passed a year. Um, if and it sounds like you touched on this, but this kind of will kind of bring it all the way almost to a landing here. Um, sure. And I'll warn you, I have a couple of questions at the end. Uh that uh what would you what would be one or two or three things you would tell somebody that is in their and I know grief isn't linear, it's not a calendar. You know, I I think it's interesting if you you probably see people, you will now that you're in your rolling into your second year, people will be like, oh, the second year's worse because the first year you're like in a concussion and now you really know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:10

And I keep coming back to the analogy of over and over again that there's a couple that really work. Um, one, uh, it's waves, right? Just like the ocean. There's big waves, there's a little wave. Sometimes you can see a really big wave, sometimes you can't. Sometimes six little waves knock you over just as bad as a big wave. So grief is kind of weird that way. It's not like, oh, it's like over time, right? Um, the waves get smaller and smaller. Someone else also described that the gap between the waves gets bigger. And I'm like, okay, I the swell, right? Gets different. I'm like, oh, I can get behind that. My big thing about grief, um, and so segue over to you is I'm like, if I asked you last year to pick up the heaviest thing you could pick up and pick it up every day for a year, does that weight get lighter? Nope. No, it's the same weight.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:50

You just get more by carrying it. Yeah, I'd say it the weight doesn't get lighter, you just get more equipped to how to handle it, how to deal with it, how to carry it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:00

What would be right? And I don't like comparison is also the thief of joy. We don't compare like the other I mentioned this one in the podcast once too, which is if if Trip hits his shin on one of those Satan hell spawn of a uh of a uh what is it, trailer hitch on the back of a truck, those things are evil. And I hit mine, whose shin hurts worse?

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:18

Mine, it's mine. I don't care how tripp's right, like it's my own pain. Like there's no comparing, right? Like when people are like, Oh, you got 10 years, but I only got five, or you're 25 and I'm 55. You don't know. It's like pain is pain. It's just pain, and it's your pain, and no one can feel your pain, and I can't know yours, so I don't I don't compare mine to yours. Um and so so again, so one year, year, 14 months, whatever. But if you could we'll just use a year, that was a long way of my brain going, let's get to a year. Jesus, Christmas, help us. Um, that uh if you could tell yourself or tell somebody else in the first year, what would be any two to three things you'd say either do, don't do, be on the lookout for whatever just kind of tips wisdom from your perspective now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:00

If someone could tell uh going uh understanding at least getting the advice from people who have been through what I've been through. First of all, don't listen to anyone who's never been in the situation you've been in.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:09

Solid.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:10

It's good, you know. I the advice comes from a good place, but I I call that toxic positivity.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:15

Yeah, there's definitely people that preach that for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:17

Yeah, yeah. And they're just saying it to try to help you, but it's not gonna help you. So avoid people who have never been through what you've gone through, to for at least for the advice. Um definitely seek out help in any shape or form. Be it, you know, a priest, a therapist, something, find someone to talk to. Um and find us uh a system, like a safety net of people, be it people who will, you know, they'll bring you food, they'll take care of the groceries, they'll you know, they'll walk your dog for you, they'll mow the lawn. Those simple things, because once those simple things are being handled, it allows you at least a little bit more to decarpent, you know the word I'm looking for, yep. Um to uh to get through the grief. Yeah, because you take on so many of the things of well, how do I grieve right now? I've got to worry about XYZ. I don't have time to grieve. Um, and and lastly, the last tip I would say is plain and simply, it's gonna suck. It's gonna be the most horrific pain you've ever felt in your life. And even though it feels like it's going to end yours, you will wake up the next day and eventually you'll realize you can get that rock uphill.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:33

Yeah, that's a yeah, yeah. It yeah, it definitely is not not uh zero out of uh zero stars. I would not recommend it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:42

Yeah, no, yeah, zero out of zero, would not recommend.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:46

Um, before I go into my uh kind of how I wrap it up, is there anything else that you want to share with us? Uh your TikTok people, the solo dad community, the solo parenting community, is there anything else that you'd want to just share with us?

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:01

Uh well, I mean, I guess for starters, grief is very inconvenient. There's no convenient time for it to happen, plain and simple. Like you said, with it being happening close to St. Patrick's Day for you. Uh and my wife passed literally days before both my daughters' birthdays. So it was one of those, like, man, there was, but then you look back on it, like, really, when is there a good time? There isn't.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:24

A February 30th is the best time for someone to you know, if February 30th, uh 3033, right? There is no day sound correct. No, there's no good time.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:34

You're absolutely no, no. So I I think you have to give yourself a little bit of grace, and that factors because you have to accept it's if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. It's not gonna wait till it's convenient for you. Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:48

Um that's a really good point. It's definitely not convenient.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:52

No, it it's it's ugly, it's just it's nasty, it's every emotion in the spectrum, it's in that one uh feeling. Uh but I would have to just say overall through the whole year, that I've gone past so much a mourning my wife, and and now I'm focusing more on how do I honor her. And I want to make sure.

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:18

That's actually really good. Because morning, so the thing is about mourning and grief is grief is and I I should look it up before I say it, but grief is the thing, mourning's the action. Yeah, you will we will always when we talk about toxic positivity, people like you can't grieve anymore, like you're supposed to be done, you're supposed to be happy again. I'm like, I don't think you understand. And I'm I know you're gonna nod your head on agreement with this. Any milestone of my daughter's life, I would be happy she accomplished it and proud and honor that moment, and I'll be sad when mom's not there. And the exact same both things will be true, and I'll grieve that forever. And mourning is like the crying, the the the the raging against the ether, the screaming into the you know the nothingness. That's mourning. That's like the actual event of, but grief is like something that we we will have forever, and it's a really shitty familiarity that I don't wish on anybody. Like it's not fun to have grief be a part of your day-to-day life. Yeah, it it definitely isn't, and and like I said, that you went from mourning to now slowly maturely. Yeah, you're still gonna mourn. You're not thinking, but now like how can I honor this?

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:28

Yeah, exactly. And how can I how can I honor her and every day make it where it's a day of like you know, let's now I actually embrace to try to find a way every day of like you know, bringing up a memory of mom or a story of mom. Love it, or you know, I mean, each one of them has some form of her in them, you know. My oldest, she's a carbon copy of my wife. Yeah, my my youngest, she has her mother's just undying wanting to see the good in people and love people for who they are. And my son is very much her artistic side.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:01

And down to like her full, like, you know, my my wife was also autistic with ADHD, and that's like I mean, he's that, but like he has her focus and then some math. I mean, he's a genius with math, yeah. And those that was that just the way he computes and he sees things, he gets all of that from her. And uh that's one of the most like uh it's like a it's a bittersweet thing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:25

It is my my kiddo is like 98.4% of her mother, and I'm like, I am so host because my wife was way smarter than I could ever achieve. I just look at my kid and I'm like, ugh, you're gonna be running so much every year. She's seven.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:39

And it's bittersweet because you do, you have a living reminder of your person every day.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:44

So one of the things, and I've shared this before. So my wife and I met for the first time late in life. Well, I say late in life, we were in our 30s, but like, and we kind of did, you know, our little journey together. And the thing that it'll hit me, and I'll we'll see what happens when I say it. But so she was in her 30s. So my and I've seen pick but I didn't know her in high school in it, right? I've seen pictures, but my my biggest concern is I'll be like 78. My daughter will walk in and I'll be like, there you are, Mars. Yeah, right. Because I didn't know her one day. I'm like, oh that might that said you can hear me already. I'm like, well, that's maybe I can get maybe I can get really bad glaucoma and it's just everything will be blurry. Who knows? Anyway, um I'm just like, God, like because they're so a portion of our person, and some of it doesn't come in. We can see it, but we're like, oh my gosh, this is gonna, this is gonna bloom into even more, right? Like we see it as a seedling, and we're like, oh, it's gonna be a whole tree of our person. Um so uh really good stuff, man. I appreciate it. So I kind of so I'm gonna brace you for a minute, and so you take a take a second. So I I try, I kind of couldn't find my little note sheet of the questions I normally ask. So I'm I'm just gonna kind of wing it a little bit. So I usually end asking a couple of questions, and um they're they're not um, they're they're meant to be um open and they're meant to be kind of raw. Um, I think the reason I kind of came up with this idea was that I still want I'm gonna start down the ladder. I want dads to know that it's okay to have these feelings, whether our person is here or not. Um I want people who are in grief to understand that, you know, uh there's a guy that made oh what's his name? When his woman mom died. Uh anyway, he made the quote very famous, it's been around for a while, with great love comes great grief. Um and so that when we have these moments, like I just did for a second there, um, it just means that we really loved our person. And that our world and uh everyone's world that orbited theirs will never be the same. So um one of the questions I I kind of come up with is if Cordy could say anything to you now as a solo dad, what do you think she would say? I know, I'm sorry, that's why I try to brace people, man. But it's it's it just it opens it up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:14

She was the first person to say this to me. And I know she'd say it again. Um she was the first person to ever tell me I'm proud of you. And uh I know she'd be proud of you. She was always the strength and the backbone of the family. And uh in a weird, morbid way. I take a sense of humility from the fact that my wife is gone because I don't feel she would have left if she didn't feel her children would be okay. And I feel like, in a sense, that was the ultimate compliment she could have given me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:06

That they are safe, they are loved, and they are cared for.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:08

She knew she would never have to worry a day in her life if her children would ever be safe, loved. She just knew they'd be good, they'd be in safe hands.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:21

So speaking of the kiddos, if the kiddos ever stumble upon this podcast and they make it all the way to the end, what would you want to tell them?

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:31

Oh my god. Well, like I rather brought up earlier and let them know they save my life every damn day. They gave me the reason to keep going when I didn't think I could. And how proud of them I am, and how proud I know their mother would be of the people they're becoming. And that they are still in their own way honoring her by being themselves still. They have not let grief conform them or change them. They are still these amazing rays of sunshine that she always knew they were, and that they've they just they've never conformed to how they feel they should be. They they remain genuine, and I'm I'm so honored to be their father.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:28

All right. Uh this is this is a part for me, it's always a little rough too. Um they these hit me like watching my brothers in the solo dad world go through this. It just you know, it it's grief sucks, and loss, loss is crappy. Um and so that's beautiful. And uh I think I think there's a lot of kids if they ever stumble onto their dad on this podcast, they'll they'll hear some stuff that I hope that they understand, whether it's uh five months, five years, or 15 years down the road, that not only did they save us, but damn it if we didn't try our damnedest. Um, and so the last one I'll say, and then we'll wrap it up, is if you could say anything to Cordy right now, what would you say?

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:16

You're swinging below the belt.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:18

I I try I mean I try to tell people put on their seatbelt.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:22

Um if I could say anything just one thing as much as you want. Um first and foremost, just I would just let her know how much I love her how much I miss her hugs. Thank you for the most amazing life for being my best friend And I would tell her that forever and always she will always be ever mine, ever mine, and never ours.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:21

So I um full disclosure, I wrote this down about not these questions, what I'm about to say, about 45 minutes ago. I am not I'm not kidding. So, Trip, brother, I'm proud of everything you've done and you continue to do from one solo dad to the other. Keep on dad and brother. You're doing a great job, and I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:36:44

I appreciate you too, man.