S5E1 Twice Widowed, Still Standing (Pt. 1): The Quiet After Cancer & the Permission to Move Forward

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Michael Chapman—an author and twice-widowed dad—shares what it’s like to love, lose, and keep showing up. From walking through terminal cancer to the shock of the silence after, Michael opens up about grief waves, “two dates on the calendar,” and the moment he realized moving forward isn’t forgetting—it’s surviving.

Book Available here:

https://www.amazon.com/Two-Days-Calendar-Life-Lessons/dp/B0DK6DFT5D

Ready for more than just listening? Explore the CLIMB framework and support options at https://solodad.life/

Transcript

Micheal 0:00

But I look back on that and I really I've kind of come to the conclusion that moments like that, because that wasn't the only one, was just sort of a way of kind of letting me know, hey, everything's gonna be fine. You're gonna be able to find a way to continue living your life. And I just want you to know that I don't want anything to chain you down or hold you back from that.

Matt 0:52

I'm Matt Bradley, your host, and I am honored to join you as we explore the complexities of grief, the challenges of solo parenting, and the struggles of getting back to living, and maybe even some adventures of finding love again. Each episode we'll sit down with courageous dads who are bravely sharing their experiences, insights, and lessons learned along the way on this journey. Sharing how grief has impacted them, their children, and their lives. We might have a crosstalk conversation with widows and widowers sharing their experiences, the similarities and the differences in grief and being a solo parent. Occasionally we'll have grief experts on to dive deeper into the understanding of grief and healing. So whether you're a solo dad or solo mom or a friend of a solo parent, or you're wanting to just understand more about this journey, you're in the right place. Don't forget to visit our website, solo dad.life, for more resources, episode updates, and to connect with our growing community. You can follow us on all the social media platforms, find our group on Facebook, look for us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and on the YouTube page. On YouTube, you can find more content and some behind the scenes moments. Just search the Solo Dad Podcast. And remember, don't forget to subscribe. Lastly, if you've enjoyed what you've heard or found it helpful or insightful, we would appreciate your support. Head on over to buymeacoffee.com slash the solo dad podcast to help keep the show running and fuel our mission of supporting solo dads everywhere and giving them a space to have open and honest conversations. Thank you so much for being here, and let's dive into today's conversation. Welcome to the Solo Dad Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Bradley or Matthew or Matt, whatever. Uh, and before I kick this one off, I want to make sure that I always express my humble gratitude and thanks for all you solo dads that support us and for each and every one of you that are willing to be vulnerable, open, and honest, and step into this space and share your journey. And that is no different than my current guest, Michael Chapman, is here. Uh, I I think we're connected on TikTok.

Micheal 3:17

Is that I know we are on Facebook. I will make you.

Matt 3:21

Yeah. Um, and he is a in the very unfortunate double rare group. Not only is he a solo dad, but he is twice widowed. So he's our second guest that's done that. Michael, thank you for taking time out of your day and welcome.

Micheal 3:37

Well, Matt, I appreciate you having me on. Uh uh consider an honor and uh enjoy the opportunity.

Matt 3:43

Yeah, appreciate it, man. Um, we're gonna I'm gonna do a little teaser and let everyone know he has one book out, um, and it's two two days on the calendar, right? Yep. Two days on the calendar, and he's working on a second one, and we're gonna get to kind of what what those are as we go through this, but we are gonna kind of start with unfortunately how Michael very first became into this rare group of us guys who unfortunately experienced the death of our partner and spouse. So take us what brought you to this the first time.

Micheal 4:18

Well, my first wife, April, uh, she and I'm actually met when we were kids. We grew up in the same church together. We were friends through our teen years. We never dated uh in those in those teen years. Um, we were always kind of inseparable when it came to church trips and things like that. So as as time went on and she became single again, and I became single, and and of course, I wrote about our entire life in my book, uh, very detailed about how we came to be. Um but we ended up getting married after we dated for two years. We got married in 1999, had a wonderful life together. Uh, we never had any children. It came up at times, but uh we we just never had any. Uh so we would take our trips and enjoy our life together. A very wonderful relationship. Probably could count on less than one hand the number of times we really had any disagreements between us. And I think part of that was due to the fact that we had such a long friendship that was existing prior to our marriage. So if you fast forward through all the years of our marriage, uh in the beginning of 2009, she started experiencing some things where she just didn't feel like her normal self. Um, and so running some tests with various things, she she wound up um uh going into uh a hospital in Lexington, South Carolina, because she was low on blood, her hemoglobin levels dropped really low, dangerously low. So when they sent her in to get some get a blood transfusion, uh the hematologist that saw her was also an oncologist. And uh he was someone that I had known from previous years uh working at a boat dealership, and he wanted to get to the bottom of what was happening with her, and of course, you know, that's kind of how it starts. You got to figure out what's wrong, yeah, in order to fix it, hopefully, right? Yeah, you know, it's a series of tests, and you know, after a PET scan and things like that, they determined she had she had already been at a stage four of melanoma, uh, which is never a simple one. Whoa, and so for 11 months of her life, she had to go through a surgery and several different treatment protocols, some of which worked. Uh, you could see uh a diminishing of tumors on CT images, and so it was kind of a little bit of an up and down with her. Yeah, but at times she was she was winning battles along the way, and then something else would come up, maybe metastasize and win other areas, you know. Yeah, typical journey sometimes for some of them. The the thing that stands out about her uh was she always remained positive throughout the whole entire journey. I tried to keep life normal for her as much as I possibly could. I let her talk about it when she wanted to. I knew she would be fearful of things, but you know, with us both growing up in the environments we did, our faith was very strong. And she leaned on that more than anything. And she had a piece about her throughout the whole entire period that if something was going to happen to her, she knew where she was headed.

Matt 7:23

Yeah.

Micheal 7:24

And along the way, she inspired a lot of people. In fact, uh, when she had to go in and be hospitalized for the last portion of her life, uh, she continued to inspire others along the way. People come and visit her. She stayed up beaten positive. Um, there were moments when we actually thought she was declining. Um, that she she bounced back, and you're like, wow, you know, God's keeping her around for a reason. There's people that need to come see her, there's people that need to be touched by her.

Matt 7:52

Yeah. Isn't it my wife Marsh? I so I've only done this once with cancer, and I unfortunately luckily cancer doesn't in my family, except for only one really massive bad time. Um, and so I've only had one experience, and it sounds like your first one was like this where my wife had this. I didn't know this. Her like oncologist, her surgeon, um, came to her funeral. People like, that's not normal. Um they they had because Rush in Chicago's a teaching hospital, they had they brought people in to sit like new, new doctors, right? Young doctors, to sit with her and she would talk to them about what it was like having cancer and being a new mom, and they'd leave bawling their eyes out, and she was just like, she was so like strong, it's inspirational and strong. And again, I only did this once, and I when I finally was uh able to share her journey with people, people are like, you know, that's not typical. I'm like, well, it's one for one for me. So I didn't know any different. They're like, no, the fact that doctors and the medical people who see this all the time respond that way tells you that the person in the room, your wife, my wife, are special because if it impacts someone that sees this day in and day out that way, there's something they're they're dealing with in a very different way than they used to saying. So that's amazing, man. Sad, but amazing, right?

Micheal 9:15

Yeah, you know, I think when you compare like our situations, there's a flip side to it. You know, we were like we were given the opportunity to spend that time with them. Yeah. And you talk about things that maybe were put off, you know, and you find peace. You know, you see the peace in them, so then it makes it for me, it made it a little easier on me. Sure. And then the flip side of that is you're watching them go downhill at a at a steady pace, and they're nights when you sit there and you you don't you don't know if that's the last night or if it's gonna be another night. Uh, there were moments that kind of still stand out in my mind, and they're images that will forever haunt me that I witnessed. Yeah. Um, you know, so it was it was not easy to do that. Um, and I've talked to people that that are widowed that had that sudden loss. Uh they didn't have they didn't have an opportunity to even say goodbye. No. And you know, I don't I don't know. It's uh they both suck. They both it's what we and I think the I think uh you know um when we get into the second uh marriage and that it'll hit home a little more, but I think when there's ever maybe some unresolved issues that weren't really discussed, maybe there were some things left on the table in a marriage that most especially when you lose someone all of a sudden, you know, there is no opportunity for that, and that can have a long-term effect on people. I I felt like after having five and a half weeks with April, uh, and I was there every day, spent most nights there. The only time I didn't spend a night with her is with her sister would come in and maybe spend a night. My mom would spend nights in her room with her too. So there was a we had a little system going where I could still come home and keep my business on track and take care of some things. Uh, she was always supportive of everything I ever did, you know, throughout our marriage, and she stayed that way right on up right up until the end. In fact, one night I'm sitting there in her room and I and she was kind of she'd been sleeping a while, and I'm sitting there wondering, like, okay, uh, she hasn't really said anything in a while. And all of a sudden, she just uh she looks at me and she goes, Hey, what are you doing here? I said, What do you mean what am I doing here? I'm here every night. She goes, Well, you know what? She said, This really is no life for you. She said, Well, you're up here at night. She said, You should be out living your life. And I'm like, Hold on a minute. I said, I know you're medicated right now for your pain. I said, Well, what you're telling me I need to be out like living a single life or something? She goes, Yeah, you shouldn't be up here dealing with this. And I'm like, Okay, I get it.

Matt 11:53

So you know of a doctor, her dose might be too high.

Micheal 11:55

Right, it might be too high. Uh, but I look back on that and I really I've kind of come to the conclusion that moments like that, because that wasn't the only one, sure, was just her way of kind of letting me know, hey, everything's gonna be fine, you're gonna be able to find a way to continue living your life. Yeah, and I just want you to know that I don't want anything to chain you down or hold you back from that.

Matt 12:17

I you know, it's it's so interesting. So the the two I've come I've landed on is I call them terminal, which is there's some sort we're all terminal technically, but some sort of terminal diagnosis versus tragic, where it's a car accident or something that's just out of the blue, right? And the negative of the the terminal or the the the is the it's like this prolonged grief. You have you have anticipatory grief of them dying, you're watching them go, whether it's six weeks or six months or even six years, I have a fellow whatever whose wife battled for six years. There, there the gift of it, like you said, is and it was a mantra my wife and I kind of fell on, which was you're getting a chance to say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done. So if there's anything to anyone or anything you need to do or say, you know your hourglass has less saying on the top than on the bottom.

Micheal 13:06

That's right.

Matt 13:06

And that's it's a terrible thing. And I don't I don't wish it on anybody. I don't know what it's like to have a doctor tell you that, and I don't really want to anytime soon. Um, but there is something there. Um, I I I've mentioned on the podcast before, I'm lucky enough. I have videos of my wife telling me that everything's gonna be okay afterwards, which is just not what normally when it's traumatic or when it's uh traumatic that it that that happens. So there's that part of it, and you're right, there's something about whether it was very poignant, like if they like my wife literally says the words like you'll be okay, you need to learn to live again in a video to me. She also gives advice to our daughter, but in in separate videos. But whether it's like that or like what you got, you can at some point after some time has passed, look back and go, Oh, that's them giving me permission, whatever it might be, to sell the house, to move on, to or move forward, you know. And and if it's traumatic, if it's a car accident, it sounds like we're gonna lead to that too. There's a lot of what a shoulda could have, what ifs, right? That we don't we they didn't they they weren't able to give us that, not that they're supposed to. So that's uh it is something that's really unfortunate, but also this I don't like the word, I'm just gonna say it. It's a gift and a blessing to have when it happens that way.

Micheal 14:25

That's kind of how I feel about it.

Matt 14:26

Yeah, I mean you wouldn't want it, but it's it is it's a gift you don't want.

Micheal 14:31

It is true, yeah. Yeah, well, the the hard parts about it was not only was I losing a wife that was a great person to me for 10 years, I was losing a friend from childhood. Yeah, oh that's a yeah, a little bit of a double-edged sword with that. We had a lot of history together even prior to even dating and getting married.

Matt 14:55

So I two years ago, has it been two years? Two years ago, it'll be three in wow, it's been three in January. Um, one of my best friends from childhood passed away. He died, and it hit me like a ton of bricks, but then it was like one you talk about the friendship part of it, then it's that thing of like, oh, I can't call and talk to this guy that knew me for 30 years about that funny thing that happened that's happening again, or and it's like that you're now the owner of the history to share to no one, which is very weird, right? Like you had this friendship, you know, and a long running until it turned into a relationship, and there's all this history that we now we're the owner of that story, and you're like, oh crap, I there's no one to there's no one to say remember when anymore, which is right a double, like it's huge, it's a it's a big thing. Um, yeah. So so um what and so when what year did uh did April pass away?

Micheal 15:52

She passed away in February of 2010. Okay. So she's been gone 15 years.

Matt 15:58

Yeah. And what so do um so you're there every night, you're doing your thing. Obviously, as we both unfortunately know, cancer's really unfair and not nice and shouldn't exist. Um how did how did her her passing come to be? And then like was how old were you when that happened? And then like because what was the relationship like with her family during that and then after? Friends? Because that's almost like a whole chapter gets or a whole book gets wrapped up, and now what? I guess is kind of my question to you.

Micheal 16:37

Well, you know, I had known her family since I was a child too. Yeah, and they were very involved with the mix, they would come in, you know, and stay during the day. Her dad would he was retired, so he would come in and sit with her during the day where I could come home and and get some work done. It worked out beautifully as far as the schedule goes. And um, you know, they were always supportive of me. They wanted to know what was going on, if I needed anything. Friends, same way. I had an outpouring of friends calling me. Uh one there's a chapter in my book that I wrote, it's it's chapter 17, and I uh honor one of my oldest and most cherished friends on earth. It's a girl that I went to high school with, and to this very day, she is still a very important figure in my life. She would call me every single day, checking on me. Isn't it amazing?

Matt 17:26

Yeah, isn't it amazing how some people, and we've talked about this before in other podcasts, we're like there's a group of people that show up exactly how you thought they'd show up. You're like, Yep, this is them, and then there's a group of people who don't show up the way you think they would. You're like, oh, I thought we were kind of better, like you know, better friends, better, whatever. And then out of the woodwork, not out of the woodwork, but out of the blue, this one per you're like, Whoa, I had no idea you were even capable of being this type of friend. And whatever category they show up in, it's it is such a it's such a blessing to have that sort of person around when these things are happening. So that's that's amazing. Yeah, and I'm glad you I'm glad you made a chapter of it. That's fantastic. Well, I did.

Micheal 18:06

I I I talked to her about it and I said, I'm gonna give you your own chapter, so don't let it blow your blow your head up.

Matt 18:12

You got a chapter in the book, don't get a big ego about it.

Micheal 18:14

Yeah, there's a there's so many things throughout my life that she was a played a big role in, and even though it was very um, so yeah, you know, the support was there, but you know, um April, like I said earlier, she went through several ups and downs with the treatments, and things were were kind of working here and there. And because with melanoma, unless it's changed to this day, a lot of it was clinical trial things. They didn't have a whole lot of MDA-approved treatments for it. So we went all over. I mean, we we had to spend a lot of time up in Maryland at NIH. Um, and then we did some stuff in Charlotte, North Carolina, and then some of it were more local to Lexington Um Medical Center. But in the end, she had a she had a tumor start to grow really fast in the mesentery tissue, which is a kind of a membrane that holds all your lower bowel areas together in your body, and then it was a fast growing one. Uh, they only had one other option left to try to tackle it, and it it it was one that if it was supposed to work, it was gonna do it relatively quick. So within a few weeks, they would see some diminishing of that tumor. And it did not, it was continuing to grow. So, you know, what happens there is they start transitioning you to that comfort phase, and you know, her main requests from them, because she knew she knew where her fate was gonna be. And she said, Look, I don't want to be in any pain, I want you to be able to control my pain, and I want to be able to see the people I love come in and visit with me. So, you know, do whatever you need to do. And she was just calm about it. Um, she there were no no levels of panic, even when they diagnosed her. She was like, Okay, tell me where to go, when to be there, and what we're gonna do, and I'll do it. She didn't resist anything. Um, she's just amazing, she was very inspirational throughout the whole entire journey. Yeah, and you know, of course, I had those moments when I would come home from a from visiting her. If someone was coming in to stay for the night, you know, I'm I'm at home by myself then, so I had time to start adjusting a little by little to what the quietness of the house is going to be like. Oh man. Um, so I guess that uh is another thing that kind of is a gift in itself, like you said. You know, you start to see, okay, she's not here. Um, so I would occupy myself doing things. So I got a little bit of a dose of how that was gonna be.

Matt 20:40

Oh, I am the one who leaves the socks out. That is my yeah, yeah.

Micheal 20:44

Well, you know, I I I was domesticated a long time ago, so there's a lot of things that I that I've been able to do. Right, yeah. When it comes to my daughter now, I've been like, wow, I've been able to do that pretty much, you know, without too much of a challenge.

Matt 20:59

That's fantastic. I love it.

Micheal 21:01

But yeah, she ended up, she passed away on February 13th of 2010 at about 9.30-ish that night. And I I was not with her in that moment. Her sister had come in to stay the night. Um, but she was already in that at that phase where you know how they are, they just they're not coherent.

Matt 21:19

Yep.

Micheal 21:20

They're just there.

Matt 21:21

Yeah.

Micheal 21:21

Um, and I did I wasn't home probably 15 minutes, and her sister called me and told me that you know she was there and she had taken her last breath. So I I immediately went back up to the hospital, which was not quite an hour away. You know, I was able to go in the room before they took her downstairs.

Matt 21:36

There there's some and it's a whole I think it's probably a whole nother podcast about to have some folks on and about like s there are times they just my my grandpa the way my grandpa passed away, he just knew. He just he just knew it was time, he knew where he needed to be, and he waited until that moment and he just chose that his heart was gonna stop working. Yeah. Like he died, he died of a heart attack. But like you look at it and you're like, Yeah, he just was waiting to be surrounded by friends and family. We had had this large dinner and he excused himself to the restroom and he passed away. And I was like, dude, he just had a wonderful meal. We sang a bunch of songs. He was he was very dementia out too at the time. But um, and it's like you know, kind of like talking about you're like your wife probably knew that you know you'd been there and you left, and it was fine for her to go on. Yeah, there's a lot I feel that there are like there are people that they uh hopefully you probably wrestled this for a moment, but hopefully not anymore. But you know, some people they have a lot of guilt about like not being in the room, and you know they would have been around longer, or I should have been. And it's like, listen, if you could stop someone from passing away just by being in the room, you would be the most popular person in every hospital. Like, that's just not that's just not how it works, it's just not how it works, you know. Um, but and I think I take from it like, no, you know, especially if if there was a lot of love in there and there was a lot going, you know, a lot of like you said, she was inspirational. Sounds like she was very much like my wife, where it was like, tell me where to go, what to do. And it's yeah, and not I mean they put up, I don't want to say they didn't fight, they didn't fight the reality, they fought it, they fought the disease, they did what they needed to do, they didn't go quietly into the still night, but they they were they accept there was no denying that they had cancer, right? And there's no denying that there probably wasn't gonna be a happy ending for either April or Marcy, right? Um, and I think there's a there's an amazing both power and grace in that. Like it's just it's it's and you don't really, I don't know. It sounds like you maybe was a little more in tune to it than I was, but a lot of my like wowness of how Marcy went through cancer came afterward. I would look back going, wow, that lady really handled it just like a boss, like there's no other way to put it, right?

Micheal 23:52

Like, they will show you levels of toughness you never thought were in them. A hundred percent, right?

Matt 24:00

And then almost like, and in that toughness, too, like when they're like like you sound like April again, very much like Mark. It was like when enough was enough, they're like, make me comfortable, surround me with those that I love and I like, and you'll be okay. And that's basically what happens. Um, okay, so rush back to the hospital, be able to see her before they take them away. Um, that's a whole nother thing. My brother-in-law had the forethought to tell me because my wife was upstairs in our home at the time, and he was like, You're gonna want to not see how they have to get her out of your house, so you need to like go lay down for a look. He goes, Because seeing her beautifully in your bed and restfully is an awesome thing. He goes, But you do not want to see what becomes very just cold and technical, and you don't want to say that that don't burn that memory. So, okay, so February is that the 14th, so it's the day before Valentine's Day.

Micheal 24:52

Wow, yeah, yeah, wow. So one of those important days on the calendar that that prompted this, you know, which we'll get to real quick.

Matt 25:02

Yeah, yeah. I live there, it's one day. I love it. So that so that we'll earmark that for day one of the two days on the calendar. So um April April dies. I don't like passed away because it's too soft sometimes. So April dies. Briefly, like or as quick as you can, what was like what was life like for you after that for a bit?

Micheal 25:31

For a bit, I think you know, being home at night and her not being there, just even though uh maybe we weren't conversing constantly every night. You know how it is when you're married. There's yeah, there's she may be laying in a bed reading a book, and I'm in the den watching a ball game, you know, but she wasn't there, right? So there were obviously voids come in very quickly.

Matt 25:54

Yes, that's a very yes.

Micheal 25:56

Welcome me or me welcome her when she comes home. So there was a big adjustment for that. I had an overgrown chocolate lab and a cat that was hers. They don't talk back, but they were there for comfort. So, you know, I'm dealing with that during the week. Now I tried to stay busy on weekends. Uh, throughout a period of my life, I I race boats a lot. Wow, so I started traveling more. I had a buddy in Alabama said, You know what? You need to do, I got the best therapy for you. Hook that boat up, we'll we'll be travel partners, and we're gonna go run this circuit. Oh, nice, and keep you away from home. And I met a lot of incredible people along the way. We had a blast uh and did that for about two straight years. We ran a full schedule, so I kind of removed myself from being home as much as possible. I'd take hunting trips, I would go see friends.

Matt 26:45

Well, there's something I what I was hit with when you said that she's not there, and the vo the voids start showing up, which I think is a really good quote. Um, the other one that I realized was how loud the silence becomes. Like you're like, whoa, even if like you said, there's just a noise of turning a page in a book, there's the noise of them pouring another cup of tea or going to the like all it there's nothing, it's just it's definitely quiet. It's definitely quiet. So out and about doing some stuff a couple of years. Did you did you if you look at from here from this point now, looking back, did you notice like we we in our kind of talk, we talk about grief waves, we talk about grief tsunamis, we talk about how it's a roller coaster. Did you find yourself like in the quiet having moments of just like real big grief and mourning? Or was it more like because you had a chance to kind of like not in a long goodbye, but did you feel that it your healing was happening at a at a at a steady clip? I guess I'm trying to get with, rather than like waves of stuff. If you look at it from this point now.

Micheal 27:57

When I look back on it, I think it was uh it was a steady progress of healing from it. I think I think I just kind of rested it all on knowing that she didn't have to battle anything anymore, you know. She was yeah, even though I missed her, and there will be moments or occasions that came up, you know. Obviously, the first Christmas that she wasn't around, I didn't even, I didn't put a single decoration. I just wanted to, I'm like, you know what? I don't have we didn't have a child, yep. You know, so it was no reason to go all out for that thing, and uh so I just kind of skated through Christmas. Um went on camping trips during Thanksgiving like I'd done before. So I was occupying my time, but yeah, there were moments when I would sit down or I'd hear a song, or yeah, you know, I'd have moments of reflection where it would hit me pretty hard. It was a punch in the gut. Yeah. But uh I think overall the the biggest part of it was just knowing that you know what, man, she's not having to fight this anymore. Uh, and she's in a place right now where we can only really imagine what what's going on right now. So that's beautiful.

Matt 29:01

Yeah, and there's there's a there's comfort and peace in that too. And that's there's yeah, there's nothing, and I think you know, I think if for us guys too, I wonder, and and then we'll kind of start moving forward, is um there how did the guy put it? Guys need a third thing. There's you, there's me, then there's the boat. There's you, there's me, there's the hunting trip. Like women can just sit and be, right? Where I think like your buddy, I don't know if he knew this consciously or subconsciously. He probably was like, I'm not trying to keep him busy to distract him from what's going on. I just want him to be busy so that when the time comes, whether it's on a trip or at home, he's energized enough and healed enough and uh has a good enough foundation that he can he can deal with it. Because that's guys we really and I there's someone else, I'm stealing someone's quote because it is true. Like I go, guy, there's a therapist story where he we was getting these guys together and nothing was happening. So he bought a bunch of lawnmowers that were broken and then had guys fixing lawnmowers. All of a sudden they start talking about like how their dad treated in them, their struggles of raising their kids, and he's like, All because we're just working on motors. Like he goes, We're just we're wired differently, it's not good, it's not bad. We just need that third thing, and I think that probably subconsciously that third thing was because I I don't you didn't you didn't say you were like running from the grief, you just stayed busy, which I think is a very big difference, right? That's a big, big difference, Michael. Because there are um men and women that will just straight you can tell that they're just denying it and they're running from it. And I think you're started with, like you said, there's a knowing that should they're not in physical pain, knowing they're not having to fight, which is exhausting. We've both seen what that does to someone, and that they're in a a better place brings you a level of peace that you don't have you don't have to run from peace. Peace is great, right? And and comfort is good. And so you staying busy, I don't think sure didn't sound like you're running from it. And then you did you you are saying too, like, yeah, there's songs, or we all have those things of like, oh, you know who would find this really funny? The person I can't talk to, right? Like, you're like, oh dang it. So okay, so a couple of years of doing that. Um, and then let's go to is there anything else you want to say about uh April and the journey with April and post-April?

Micheal 31:19

Well, I think it when if someone were to ask me, like, if I could sum April up in one simple quote or a few words just to describe our whole life together, is uh it was she definitely always loved me unconditionally and never had any crazy expectations for me. And I think that was just a buildup of all the years of friendship and then our life together. Um, and she always supported everything I ever did. In fact, when I when I went on that little tour where we were running all over the country racing boats, you know, she was a big fan of that, my number one supporter, because I did it during our life together. And there's probably moments when I'd be sitting in a hotel somewhere in Kentucky or or Arkansas and be like, you know what, gosh, she would love to be here right now. Yeah, and then you know that that would probably, you know, would have been something that maybe in those moments I'm like, yeah, man, I know she would love this right now. Yeah, but uh, you know, yes, the woman definitely loved me unconditionally, and she was uh she was very much an inspiration to me in many, many ways. Uh I look back on my life with her and I'm like, wow, there were probably many moments that I didn't really appreciate then that I now do, and that's just because of how life has gone since her, you know.

Matt 32:45

A hundred percent. Yeah, but 2020 hindsight's always a very interesting uh it's a difficult pill to swallow. You're like, man, I should have should have been more appreciative or more man, it it really was pretty great, and I kind of overlooked it, or I wasn't it was a nine out of ten, and I was accepting it as a five out of ten. You're like, no, it was a nine out of ten. Um well that's beautiful, and thank you for sharing you and in April's life with us. And because there are I I know it's the solo dad podcast, but we have other we have guys that aren't necessarily dads, we have guys that like another gentleman that was twice widowed. Um, but there's something about how that that's gonna, I'm assuming, affect this next chapter, because we'll we'll allude to the book. Um I don't like chapters of next story, the next story of your life. Um, so kind of lead us into um how Cheryl came into your life and and what and what that journey was like, and then we'll kind of go from there.

Micheal 33:45

Well, some time had gone by, and I went out with some buddies one night to a restaurant and we we got done with our meal. We went back to one of them's house and we're sitting around watching TV, just joking and carrying on. And one of them looked at me and he said, Hey man, you think you're about ready to start meeting women again? I'm like, Well, I don't know. I said, you know, I I've been pretty busy with different things, and I said it really hasn't occurred to me too much. He said, he started telling me about his dating site he was on, and I I you know he's like, Man, I've met a lot of good people on there, I've been on some dates. It's you know, you know, it's one of these free ones. I'm like, Oh, if it's free, how good can it be? Anyway, I kind of went home that night thinking there's no way I'd ever do that. Okay. Um, and so I don't know, somebody was it? About what year was this? This was this was deep into this was early part of 2011, I think. Okay, so it didn't even quite a year, it was pushing a year.

Matt 34:36

Okay, no, it was for me, it was more about where the dating I'm thinking about where dating apps were because there's a there's way and you know this because not to spoil it, but like how it was because my wife and I met on a dating app in 2013. I guess when right when I when I've tried to go on them now, it is granted. I know I'm older and things have changed, but like it's a hot mess. But anyway, we'll get to that in a minute, but go ahead.

Micheal 35:01

Well, I'll just answer this, Matt. There is no chance I will ever get on whatever again. I just don't know. Oh man, anyway, anyway, you know, so uh some time went by after that after that suggestion was made to me, and I'm like, you know what, he might be on to something. And I think it was a night where I was just sitting in the quiet, maybe poking around on different things on my computer and trying to entertain myself with social media and things like that. So I said, okay, let me try it. So I went to the site that he recommended. I'm like, all right, it's free. Let me make a profile. So, long story short, I ended up running a crossroad on there and uh had a couple little chats with her. And uh we wound up setting up a date. Um, she had with her at the time, she had a she had a little boy who was about two and a half. Uh she had some older children that were already out on her own, on their own. And uh, so she had a little boy at home with her. And of course, me not being, you know, I had not had any children yet. I'm like, okay, am I really willing to see if I can handle this?

Matt 36:03

You know, valid, valid self-reflection, man. That's there's nothing wrong with that.

Micheal 36:07

Yeah, I was excited, like even going back a little bit in in my marriage with April when it came up, I was I was like, okay, if it happens, it happens. Yep. I was like kind of on the fence at times with it. Sure. Um, and you know, and in the end, she and I had a discussion about that, and she was like, you know what, I'm glad we never had a child because we want to leave one behind. No, so you know, so now here I am uh looking at maybe going out and dating someone who has a little two and a half-year-old boy, you know, with her all the time. And so, yeah, we started dating, and then you know, um things didn't quite go in the chronological order as if you would have wanted them to happen, and she got pregnant, uh, which is you know, my daughter. Gotcha. And so we it was the first time I'd ever really had had an experience with a woman that close to me that um and dealing with uh hormonal fluctuations from pre. I mean, it was frightening at times, man. I'm like, what?

Matt 37:06

Okay, boy, am I learning a lot. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, well, welcome, yeah, welcome to a whole show you didn't even know existed, my friend. Yeah, that is a whole I remember so uh my first memory with my the mother of my oldest was the amount and type of fast food french fries this woman wanted when she was. I was like, I don't even know what's happening right now. Like she was like, go get the ones from Wendy's. Go to the ones. I was like, what is going on? Like, this is insanity. And if I didn't bring them, I was gonna get killed. So I just brought them. And then uh Marcy's was uh whoa, it was a lot of ice cream, a lot of ice cream, a lot and lot for a lady that didn't eat a lot. Like for our first four years, we probably ate well go one tub of ice cream, and in the nine months she was pregnant, she probably ate 40 tubs of ice cream. Yeah, I get it. Uh yeah, so anyway, yeah, what yeah, a whole lot going on. Okay, so yep, a learning curve for sure.

Micheal 38:06

Definitely a learning curve. So we ended up, you know, Faith was uh going and drop the date here. Um, so it started getting pretty close to uh time for her to uh deliver and her OBGYN went in and had an exam one day, and he's like, I think it's time to get you on up to the hospital tomorrow because she's getting close. Gotcha, and it just so happened we woke up the next day with the intention to leave to go up to the hospital. And guess what the day on the calendar was? It was February the 13th. No way, two years later, same day that my wife April passed away. So that's I give away that that's in the book. Um, and you know what's crazy about it is uh Cheryl and I had a conversation about it the night before. She goes, Michael, what what if she's born tomorrow? It's not she said, I'll I'll tell you this, I will not allow them to induce me. If she uh if she comes tomorrow, it's gonna be because God wanted her to come or she was ready to come out. She refused like to be induced.

Matt 39:16

Right, they hurried along. I understand.

Micheal 39:18

Yeah, you know, that's that's a good person, and so so you know, we we leave the house, we go eat lunch, we go to the hospital, they get her checked into her room up in Columbia at uh uh Richland, and the day starts going on a little further, a little further. Um, my mom came up to the hospital, her and my stepdad, and then my dad, and the woman that was in his life at the time, they were all there to kind of sit with Noah, you know, my stepson. Oh, yeah. Well, he wasn't my stepson yet. I understood.

Matt 39:48

No, no, you're fine.

Micheal 39:49

So my mom came up to me and she just asked a simple question. She said, Son, how do you feel about if she's born today? I said, Well, I've already given it plenty of thought, mom. I've had a lot of hours since I've been up to think about this. And if she if she comes before midnight, I said, I have a simple view of it. I said, Two years ago on this day, an angel left my life and went to heaven. And I said, So if she shows up today, it's just God sending one back to me, is all it is. Ah, so beautiful, Michael. Um I'm good with that.

Matt 40:23

That is so man.

Micheal 40:26

She was 18 minutes shy of being a midnight baby and a Valentine baby. So at 11 42 p.m. on February 13th, here she came. And boy, was that an experience?

Matt 40:39

Well, yeah, it's a yeah. I like how Robin Williams was like a Saint Bernard coming through a dog door, but anyway, you're right. Yeah, it's it'll it'll change it. And this is also how us men can fully recognize the women are the stronger, stronger of the two because there is no chance a man would ever do that.

Micheal 40:58

Well, I'd be curled up in a corner for a month. They're complex and complicated creatures, are they not?

Matt 41:04

No, we would we would not we would not tolerate doing that. Wow, that you I I want to maybe I'll edit my whole joke out, but man, that is so just the look on your face when you're talking about it shows such a level of both like reverence, acceptance, and I think most importantly, like just and you said it earlier, unconditional love. I think, and I mean my feeling is passed from April through you to faith. Like just unconditional, like if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. If she's here, she's here. And it's I mean, that is so beautiful. It really, really is. Because I think in grief there's some days that we'll mark off as like not only they sacred, better or worse, right? They can be sacred for a lot of different reasons, but there are some days where like, well, nothing can ever happen on this day again, right? Because it's my special sad day or it's my special happy day. But to look at it like you did is such a I mean, man, that is that's that that's really amazing. It really is. It's it's really special.

Micheal 42:16

Well, and the thing about it is the years went by, especially the first year of you know, Faith, her first birthday. Cheryl, um, she told me uh the morning of Faith's one, you know, first birthday. She said, you know what, um, this can be a 50-50 day for you. She said, I understand it being the anniversary of April's death. And of course, Cheryl heard all the stories. You know, I I was very open to talking about April's journey, and she knew a lot about our life together. Uh, she never had any reservations or any any insecurities, I guess you could say about it. Yeah, she always told me, she said it can be a 50-50 day, you know, it can be the day we celebrate our daughter's birthday, but I also know that if maybe a wave hits you and you kind of have to reminisce for a moment, you can. So she gave me a liberty for that.

Matt 43:06

So that is that's that is a level of emotional intelligence and maturity that is really difficult to find at times. Um, it that is, and you know what when you said 50-50 day, that's a I may have to jot that down because there I think that's a really good way to describe Faith's birthday, April's um, April's passing day. There are days that we just don't have enough in us to do 100% of what we normally can. And I like the coin of it, like it's a 50-50 day for me. Like, you know, my wife's birthday was St. Patrick's Day, and I don't have to not celebrate St. Patrick's Day, but also I don't think I'm gonna go to the parade anymore. You know what I mean? It's a 50-50 day, right? I just don't think I'm really gonna, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do it the way I once did. I like that. And you know, the the other thing that I that that's that's amazing that Cheryl had the the forty the uh both. The fortitude, and I need to find this article. I really do because I reference it a lot. Your story is very similar to someone else's. So they were married early in life, the person passes away. So then they get remarried to have a kid, and the kid winds up going through like a keepsake box or something and finds a picture of dad with another lady, right? And it wasn't like a secret, but like the kid was little, and and so they're kind of like, Hey, why's dad with this lady? And the kid's mom goes, Well, Daddy had a special person before uh he ever met me and had you. And this lady's like, I've known my husband, Bob, for 15 years, and our kid's three or whatever. And she goes, In this moment, right now, my kid holding this wedding picture, whatever it was, goes, My life would not exist had this person, in your instance, April, not walked this earth, none of this would be possible. And it's a weird because more normally, exes, right? It's people like, oh yeah. But we're like, you understand that if you come into Michael or Matthew's life and you come in, there was someone here before that shaped us, that wrote a story with us. We're not mad about it, we're mad they're not here, but we're not mad at them, and life's moved forward. And for someone to be willing to be vulnerable, and I think Cheryl's case, to say, I accept Michael and I accept April, who I've never met, who's got who's who's influenced my life, even though I've never met them, right? That is really amazing. That's that's really cool. It really is. So okay, so it's her first birthday. Did you did you do a 50-50 day?

Micheal 45:31

I would say it was probably more 90-10. I mean, we were focused heavily on the on the first, yeah.

Matt 45:37

First birthdays with the cake and the everything and the presents and the mess, it's fantastic.

Micheal 45:42

Kind of held true most years. I mean, I had I was in a pretty decent place, and I think I had some closure to that previous life. And sure. Um, so they were at the waves from that didn't really hit me much then. Um, so yeah, we it was pretty much, yeah, it was the acknowledgement of that day, but it was more of it had to do with my little girl.

Matt 46:03

Well, and I like how you said, you know, you you've healed on from it, like that was a part. And then I'm taking I'm quoting a guy, I'm pretty sure his name was Pete, one of my first uh solo dad group therapies I ever went to. Um, he was like, he was like, you know, he's 12 years out. I'm like two months out. I'm like, Pete, tell me how you know death first. And he goes, Man, I gotta be honest, I'm 12 years out. Me and my three boys will never forget the day their mom died. We don't need to celebrate it. Oh, we know it. Like, we don't, you know, first couple of years, yeah, we did our things, we had favorite meals, we visited the grave site. He goes, but at this point, I no one needs to remind me. Like, he goes, I'm not gonna forget it, but I also don't need to make a deal out of it. And I think there's kind of not that Faith's birthday is replacing a special, uh, a sad day of April's, but it's almost like you're like, Well, and from you know, Faith's life, like, well, I don't want my birthday to be sad, and nor should it, like, right? And it's it's her there are a bunch of people born on that day, actually. There's probably a couple million, yeah. And so, so and but I like how you put it about like you know, you'd move you've healed you'd healed enough, and that that that story of that part of your life had had come to a conclusion, not one that you'd ever thought or want, but here you are with a new story to be written forward, and being able to celebrate what is and still acknowledge what never could have been is still really amazing. So that's awesome. And it does sound like even just hearing you talk, you definitely were in a good place, whether you meant to get there or not, you were.

Micheal 47:34

Yeah, so and sometimes life just kind of makes you adjust to it all, and you just have no choice but to, yeah.

Matt 47:40

That that whole uh figure it out.

Micheal 47:43

It's uh it's a definite ride we're on right now. Uh-huh. And you know, so backtracking a little bit, you know, Cheryl and I was when Faith was born, uh, she was born, of course, February 13th. So we we ended up going and we we did get married in March uh that same year. Beautiful. And so then we just kind of we started a life, uh, it was the four of us. Uh Cheryl had a little chalkboard that she had on the kitchen wall that uh she wrote on a Chapman party of four. Oh that was including you know her and I and Faith and then her half brother Noah.

Matt 48:14

Yeah.

Micheal 48:15

And uh she wanted to homeschool them. Okay. I was like, well, okay, if that's what you want to do. Uh so she was doing that. Um, and you know, we would I our life was a lot different than it than the life I had with April. Well, sure.

Matt 48:33

I mean, you're a different person. There's kids.

Micheal 48:35

Yeah, yeah. Now there's two kids in the mix, and and you know, I'm loving them equally. I mean, yeah, I felt, you know, Noah was like, I didn't look at him as like, well, this is just her old son. I mean, he was my uh quote unquote stepson, but I mean, I I I tried to put every bit of attention on him. Sure. As one should. And I think he had he had a little bit of a moment there, you know, where he's no longer the youngest, you know, he mom's having to give you know attention to his baby.

Matt 49:05

Yeah.

Micheal 49:05

You know, so it's like, oh wow, I'm not the first choice anymore. And so it it had some adjustments to make. Yeah. Um, but all in all, it kind of it kind of went okay. I mean, our Cheryl was kind of a polar opposite personality from April. It was kind of when I look back, I'm like, okay, I've gotten one who was like this certain way, and now I experienced another life with someone who was who was quite different. There were only maybe a few commonalities between them. Um, so you could say when I look back on those two versions of life, uh, I've learned so much from it because just their different personalities and how they operated on a daily basis was entirely different. Sure. And maybe you'll understand a little bit more about that when we start talking about her journey uh with cancer. Um, so it was different. Um, a little bit of a little bit of ups and downs, you know, along the way. Um cannot count on less than one hand the the times we had some, you know, maybe some disagreements about things. Sure, all reasonable. I mean, we just kind of how life works sometimes. Yeah. But uh, if if if you want to get into the the how her journey with the cancer started, she too got to a point where she wasn't feeling like herself. Um, but here's the thing about Cheryl that was opposite of April is she was a very doctor-resistant type person, she was not one who was just going to always go and get something checked, yeah or something addressed.

Matt 50:38

Well, I remember my my dad used to say sick people go to doctors. So if I don't go to a doctor, I'm not sick. And I was like, I don't think that's how that works, but okay. I get it. Yeah, because usually doctors listen, even even you and I look relatively healthy. I think all of our things work, right? We move around. Even I go to my doctor, and he's like, You need to lose weight. No kidding, like, I didn't need to get that from I get it, yeah, yeah.

Micheal 51:02

So I could I could somewhat relate to her because I've been a bit of that way my whole life too.

Matt 51:09

Yeah, you're like, I don't even know what it is.

Micheal 51:11

Uh back in April, I had something happening I was absolutely forced to do it, so I I mean I had no choice, right? I'll get into that right as a minute, but um, it kind of wakes you up, and you're like, Okay, man, you can't be stubborn and hard at it anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, anyway, she started she started really feeling not like herself at all, and so uh upon doing some homeopathic things herself, um, it got to the point where she really had to consult her obgyn about some issues, and so she went in and uh they did a did a type of ultrasound on her uh because she was having some pelvic area pains and discomfort.

Matt 51:51

Okay.

Micheal 51:52

So in the midst of the uh of them doing that ultrasound, she actually started hemorrhaging in that area, and that like while they're doing the ultrasound, like basically the process.

Matt 52:04

Wow.

Micheal 52:05

They were able to control it that afternoon in the office, but immediately said, Okay, we're gonna probably end up referring you downtown to the hospital where they can kind of address some things and look into this, and you're gonna need some lower, you know, like pelvic CTs done to see why you're bleeding this profusely, you know, just from this ocean now. But before we left the OBGYN office, we go into his personal office and he looks at her and he says, uh he said, Miss Chapman, I think you have cervical cancer.

Matt 52:38

Oh man.

Micheal 52:39

And I'm gonna tell you what, Matt, you could have plucked me out of the chair with a feather in that moment. I froze. And I was like, What did he just say? That's what I was thinking. In fact, I have there's a chapter title in my book that's it it's titled, What Did He Just Say? Because in that moment, I don't know if anything else would have registered me, registered with me at all. And of course, I look at her and she has this immediate look of fright on her face, and then I could tell that how she was looking at me, and she made a few comments. She's like, It's like the oh no, not again for him type of situation was starting to develop in her mind as well. Oh man, and you know, his delivery could have been a little softer on it going back. He just was like, without anything being really checked, he just kind of put it out there.

Matt 53:32

Yeah, there are some people in the medical profession that could definitely use a uh bedside interpreter or something, yeah. Because uh, yeah, the the uh what do we call them now? They're not called okay. What are they called? I don't know. I'm drawing a blank anyway. Um the doctor who did Marcy's colonoscopy, basically, my memory is almost very similar. It's like a bomb went off, the room gets bright right. He hands he hands us the imaging and goes, There's a massive tumor, and like walks out.

Micheal 54:09

Ouch.

Matt 54:10

Yeah, that's what I found out later he no longer works at that establishment. But anyway, yeah, anywho, so wow, isn't it real quick on the pause on the delivery? It it almost reminds me, not that I've ever done it. Matt, we're coming up on it on our calendar. Anyway, massive respect to all of our veterans. But when we see a movie where like a uh bomb goes off, right, or a grenade goes off and there's the ringing and you're like concussed. That's how I felt when that news came out. I it was almost like everything turned into the peanuts, right? It's like wont wah wah. I'm like, what did he just I we have a 90D old baby at home? Like, oh wait, what? Oh no, hold on, right? And it was almost like I think we may have even joked about sorry, I'm having like a I think we even joke not joked. I think we were going like, no, no, no, they're gonna say they messed up the file, like that's not her scan, it's someone else's, right? People that whole like you see in movies, it's not what happened, but yeah, wow, oh my gosh, yeah, and then Cheryl looking at you. Uh real quick, how how old was Noah and how old was um Faith at the time?

Micheal 55:14

Um, Faith, let's see, that would have been in the beginning of 2000 and all right, let me think about this now. 2018. It was an early basically the same time of year in 2018 as as uh April got diagnosed in the early part of 2009.

Matt 55:36

Oh wow, you know, a nine-year difference in no, but still same kind of season of the year, but the same, you know, kind of winter time, um not not quite into spring yet.

Micheal 55:47

Okay, but yeah, you know, so we we leave that office and head downtown to uh to uh the hospital and they get her checked into the ER. And their point then was to not only make sure this hemorrhage didn't continue, but then they wanted to understand, you know, what was going on with it. Yep. So um they did some checks on her. Um I think they did a lower CT scan and it showed a spot on the cervix. Oncology was sent in. Yeah. Um not not the same oncologist, you know, the April had, but from the same office. Wow. Oh boy. Um so they know had a consult with her. Uh, they checked her out probably the next day or the day after sent her home uh with saying, okay, we want you to schedule an appointment. Yeah, come in. Here we go. Do a biopsy, and we're gonna go from there. Yeah. And uh she did go in and have the biopsy done. And then I think a day or two later they called her and said, Yeah, you you're showing signs of a malignant mass. Their recommendation at a time to the size of it was to do a surgical procedure and then maybe follow up with a radiation or a chemo protocol.

Matt 57:12

Yeah, kind of knock it out. Yeah, yeah.

Micheal 57:13

Yeah, and said, Look, you know, we feel like if we we found it where it's not massive, we feel like your odds are pretty good that if we go this route, you'll you'll you'll be able to come through this. You can only have to put up a little bit of a fight and deal with the chemo or yeah, the side effects of that, of course. Um, but they gave her she, you know, what most people would take is pretty good uh voicomity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I I pretty much told her she's wanting my feedback on it, and um I knew that she may have a tendency to be resistant to it. But I just didn't know at the time, Matt, just how resistant she was going to be for modern medicine and oncology. So what ended up happening, uh, another thing that's polar opposite of April was the journey that she went down, and she she was very resistant, she didn't want to go back in and have anything done. She chose to do this holistic, you know, naturalist approach that sure. You can find people online that will sell you on that. And look, I I'm a firm believer that God put things on this earth that are here to help us, sure, and natural ingredients and herbs and things we run across it all the time. Absolutely supplements now that are that are natural, and I can feel it. However, I also believe that that God uses individuals as tools to be able to help us with things. Yeah, I mean, if you broke your leg, are you gonna try to sit still for eight months or have a long till it heals? Are you gonna go get a bone to get a cast?

Matt 58:54

Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, he gave us two working legs, but we still drive cars, right? So I get it, yeah.

Micheal 59:03

Okay, he was like, This is what I'm gonna do. I said, How do you feel about that? I said, Well, you know, it's your choice, no one can make you anything you don't want to do. And she was like, Do you believe that God can heal me? I'm like, He can, and when I said that, I think she started to feel like I was gonna have doubts because I used the word can and not he will, and you know, man, I'm a firm believer and I've believed this my entire life is whatever God's will is, it's gonna be done, yeah, any manner, and you can fuss, cuss, and scream and kick and try to resist it, but ultimately it's gonna be done, yeah, yeah. And so it kind of led into a little bit of uh a fruckus, a little bit of one, yeah. And you know, and I see I saw a little bit of her side of it because obviously she had heard about everything that April had gone through for 11 months, sure, even though it was a different type cancer, different cancer, different.

Matt 1:00:05

I mean, I don't know what you and April decided, but allegedly if Marcy was here, we both made a pinky promise to not look at the stats until like we kind of got more information about her. We both looked, like she was pre-med in college. I'm not smart, so I have to look things up, and we both knew. We both knew that no matter how you looked at the stats of what she had, it was not good. Like they're right, and I'm not all cancer is bad, but some cancers you're like, there's some pretty good odds, and especially stages vary, right? But like cancer's bad regardless. I'm not trying to say if you're gonna get a cancer, it's a good one, they're all bad. But we looked and we're both like, oh, there's this, this is this is a slim, slim chance that this ends happily ever after. So I understand, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Micheal 1:00:46

Well, you know, and I look back on it and I really think that she just let go of the fears mainly of it, and let what they recommended. She could have very well been alive and well today. Um, but you don't know, you can't go back to it. No, you don't. No, I mean it's their choice. Yeah, I respect it. Uh she was more of a private person in the manner of uh she didn't want a whole lot of people knowing that she was even sick. That's amazing. When April had it, you know, there were thousands of people that knew us and were praying for her. And whereas this was kind of like, okay, that was almost like a a gag order of sorts she put on me. She said, I don't want you telling anyone.

Matt 1:01:29

We had people from coast to coast because her sister lived in New York at the time. I'm originally from California. We are living in Chicago, her family's in Ohio, my family's all over the place, and we had people that we didn't even know and sending stuff to us and talking to people, and it was uh I mean, everyone has to choose their own journey, but I I could not I guess knowing how Marcy's journey ended now, I I don't know what I would have done had I been in a like a a gag daughter cave of like seclusion. I don't know what I would have done.

Micheal 1:02:04

Well, it was rough because I could be heavy, but I couldn't like vent my emotions about it to anyone that I had been able to do that nine years prior. Sure, yeah, people that checked on me all the time, and and I and I and at the same time I wanted those same people that it that she knew that were part of my life to be supportive of her as well, of course. Yeah, but she just didn't allow it that wasn't her thing, okay. You know, you have to respect that, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, um time just kept going on, and I'm I'm seeing all these different things that she's doing, and and she would tell me about different things she had learned from this particular group and that group, and I'm like, okay, well, you know, and I learned a lot more about some of the more natural things that people need to maybe focus on. Most especially, I think the number one thing people need to pay attention to when they're diagnosed with any type of cancer is they need to control their diet more, they need to refrain from things that they put in their body because there's obviously things out there that can facilitate the growth of it.

Matt 1:03:02

100%.

Micheal 1:03:03

It's like fertilizer, yeah. And we won't get into all that right now, of course, but it's it can happen.

Matt 1:03:08

And uh, so I don't know this way eating more consciously in general, cancer, no cancer, gonna be healthier for us. Oh, there's gonna be right. I mean, I I don't think right. I don't yeah, I I agree. We we went real clean, real fast with Marx Turning. Real clean. I there are a lot of smoothies, a lot of stuff and things that I I didn't get to eat anymore. Yeah, fine.

Micheal 1:03:36

You know, she uh you know, she just kind of did her thing. Yeah, I tried to be as supportive as I possibly could in all those areas, encouragement. Sure. But she she and I did have some things that came up between us throughout the marriage that we we probably needed to address more. Um it was just different different personalities versus my first marriage. Of course, yeah, yeah. There there I think there's probably a lot of people out there that are in that situation with that uh yeah, there's a lot left on the table in the end.

Matt 1:04:09

Well, when you when you put the when you what would I use before a terminal, when you put the stress of a terminal journey on it, it just amplifies it, right? Like, because if you have time to work things out, you have time to work things out, right? You're like, oh, we've got the next 20 years to figure this little nuance out. But all of a sudden, when it gets time crunched, and then when there's the terminal thing that is the elephant in the room that you're either talking about, not talking about, or you're tackling, it doesn't leave a lot of energy to deal with maybe some things that are gonna crop up, which is understandable. I mean, there's only so much you can it's only so much one person can handle.

Micheal 1:04:44

That's right, yeah. But you know, she she finally got to a point, and this would have been well. Here's another thing about two days, consecutive days.

Matt 1:04:56

And don't give away too much.

Micheal 1:04:57

Well, go ahead, but I don't want you to give away too much. You know, the if if people buy the book and read it, um it's very detailed about all of these journeys and and a lot of other things that happened during my life that kind of made me who I am today as well.

Matt 1:05:10

Love it, it's a lot in there.

Micheal 1:05:13

But so April, you know, first wife went in the hospital. I think it was either January the 4th or the 5th of 2010 for her last five and a half weeks. Carol started getting toward the end of 2018, uh, around Christmas time, started really declining, and I started noticing a major change in her. Uh, and I had wrote I was pretty descriptive in the book about what was happening at that time. So she had to it reached a point where there was absolutely no choice, and she had to go in as well. And it was on either the fourth or the fifth. I sometimes those two dates I get a little bit backwards, but two more consecutive days on a calendar that that are significant. One went in on one day and one went on on the other day. Wow. So she's admitted to the ER because she's in severe pain and she's starting to get a little bit dehydrated because she had some flu symptoms and all that week. So she goes in. Well, I'm giving them kind of the backstory, you know, in the emergency room department about what had been transpiring with her in the past basically 11 months also.

Matt 1:06:21

Oh my gosh.

Micheal 1:06:22

So they order a pelvic CT scan, they do it um because that's where all of her troubles were. And then they moved her from um an ER room to CCU and put her under, you know, critical care unit. Oh, yep. In the hospital. Different hospital from what April was in. This was a hospital that's more local to us. And um I'd I'd gone outside for a minute, or I went to go get something, and I was coming back to her room, and the kids were with my mother and my stepfather. And I looked, the nurse's station was right there in the CCU, and I looked over, and there was a big monitor there on the counter, and I knew what I was looking at the minute I saw that image. And what it was was her pelvic CT image that they had on the screen. And Matt, it was the largest mass I think I could have ever imagined that was covering such a large area on there. It was unbelievable. So the end result of what was happening was due to her not really progressing with anything that she had been trying to do herself, this mass grew and it grew and it grew. And it got so large that it constricted her ureters and put her in renal failure. So she was in total renal failure when she was admitted.

Matt 1:07:46

Oh my goodness.

Micheal 1:07:48

And so we were like faced with that, and a possible one kidney was not going to recover at all. It was so damaged. The other one was engorged. Just to get her back where she's not going to become septic. Right. And they put a you know, collabor, you know, they go in there and they it's just stuff they have to do. So that started her um, I guess final journey because they you know, they contacted oncology back in Columbia that did a consulted with her basically 11 months prior, because she never went back in, of course, for a follow-up. And they said, Well, we have a record here, we have the uh the biopsy results, and if you can get her strength up and she's willing to come see us, we'll take her back and see if there's anything. I think they sent copies of that image. Yeah, I mean, it was scary to see the size of it.

Matt 1:08:48

Wow.

Micheal 1:08:49

Um, so you know, at that point, then she's dealing with you know, nephrologists are in there trying to get the kidney under control, but I don't know, you know, nephrostomy two, all that. Oh, that's yeah, and her her life immediately almost started changing because of first of all, you got massive amounts of pain that she's in because of all this. Tumor's grown, she's dealing with the kidney issue. Yeah, and I'm not sure sure that that that maybe she had metastases that maybe were in other parts of her body, but we were never aware of that because that's never went down the road looking for them.

Matt 1:09:33

Yeah, and just yeah, so who knows what else was being pressed and squished and stressed out, yeah, internally. Yep, yep.

Micheal 1:09:42

So, you know, I started immediately seeing I I had to face the music there. I'm like, okay, this is history repeating itself. We're in another hospital, another basically same time of year from nine years prior. Inside of a dec yeah, inside of a decade. Wow. And you know, there were nights where because you know, they ended up moving her to pain management, yeah. Uh and keeping her comfortable. Uh now Cheryl did not have a whole lot of peace in her about it. She was still dealing from a lot of things that she she had wished she had made better decisions or different decisions. I'll I'll phrase it that way. She was having some regrets. You know, she told me more than once, she said, you know what? I should have just let them do what they wanted to do. I should have, I should have put the fear aside and went in and and let them do this. And I said, Yeah, I know. I I know how you must feel right now. I said, But you know what? Um, in the end, you're not gonna have to deal with this anymore. And I said, but at least you and I have the opportunity to sit here when you feel like it, and we can talk about anything you want to talk about. So there again, Matt, what was I done? I was given a gift.