S5E6 I Was Built for This Moment: Suzie’s Journey Through Loss and Solo Parenting

In this episode of the Solo Dad Podcast, Matt sits down with Suzie Schumaker for a deeply honest Solo Mom conversation about love, loss, faith, caregiving, and raising kids after the death of a spouse.

Suzie shares the story of meeting her husband Eric as kids in their Orthodox church community, building a life together, grieving the loss of their first daughter, and later facing Eric’s cancer diagnosis during the isolation and restrictions of COVID. Their story is filled with devotion, humor, faith, hard decisions, and the kind of grit widowed parents often discover only after life gives them no other choice.

This conversation touches on what it means to move forward with grief, not move on from love. Suzie talks about “living in the encore,” helping her daughters process loss through therapy and community, making a major move after Eric’s death, and learning to believe: “I was built for this moment.”

Through the CLIMB lens, this episode lives in Courage, Integration, Movement, and Building—finding the strength to keep going, carrying love forward, making the next right decision, and creating a life where grief and living can both exist.

For widowed parents, solo moms, solo dads, and anyone navigating life after loss, this episode is a reminder: survival counts, your kids need your example, and you are enough.

Ready for more than just listening? Explore the CLIMB framework and support options at https://solodad.life/

Transcript

Suzie 0:00

I was built for that moment. I was built for this moment. I was built for all the moments. I just had to believe it. My priest back in Omaha was very close to Eric. And he goes, do not say why me. Say why not me.

Matt 0:25

Welcome to the Solo Dad Podcast, where we hold space and gather for widowers to share heartfelt, honest, and open stories of grief. Their insights on navigating the journey after the death of their partner or spouse, loss, healing, and finding their way back to living again. I'm Matt Bradley, your host, and I am honored to join you as we explore the complexities of grief, the challenges of solo parenting, and the struggles of getting back to living and maybe even some adventures of finding love again. Each episode we'll sit down with courageous dads who are bravely sharing their experiences, insights, and lessons learned along the way on this journey, sharing how grief has impacted them, their children, and their lives. We might have a crosstalk conversation with widows and widowers sharing their experiences, the similarities, and the differences in grief and being a solo parent. Occasionally we'll have grief experts on to dive deeper into the understanding of grief and healing. So whether you're a solo dad or solo mom, or a friend of a solo parent, or you're wanting to just understand more about this journey, you're in the right place. Don't forget to visit our website, solo dad.life for more resources, episode updates, and to connect with our growing community. You can follow us on all the social media platforms, find our group on Facebook, look for us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and on a YouTube page. On YouTube, you can find more content and some behind the scenes moments. Just search the Solo Dad Podcast. And remember, don't forget to subscribe. Lastly, if you've enjoyed what you've heard or found it helpful or insightful, we would appreciate your support. Head on over to buymeacoffee.com slash the Solo Dad Podcast to help keep the show running and fuel our mission of supporting solo dads everywhere and giving them a space to have open and honest conversations. Thank you so much for being here. And let's dive into today's conversation. Welcome to a very special recording conversation and a space for grief that is on the Solo Dad podcast, but it is a solo mom podcast. I'm your host, Matt, and I know my editor hates when I do this, but I'm going to do it anyway. I always want to make sure I say thank you to anyone that is listening, that has found this helpful, that is part of this journey with us, and more importantly, to the people that sit down in this space with me to share their journey and have a conversation with me. So, Susie, thank you for being here tonight. We're recording at night, so I'm going to say it tonight, even though people listening are. So thank you for being here.

Suzie 3:14

It's an honor and a pleasure to be here. Thanks for invoking me.

Matt 3:19

No, thank you for volunteering. A little bit of backstory. Susie is one of the people when I opened it up for season five, I said, Well, what the heck? And a little bit of a little bit of nudging from several solo moms are like, You don't have space for solo moms. And I was like, Well, I mean, let's do this and I'll hold I'll I'll do my best to to to hold the correct space for solo moms. So Susie is now officially the second solo mom. The only other solo mom I had on was my mom, um, which was a great conversation. And hers was more reflective on back. So I'm starting my season five podcast with a question about kind of like where is your heart, your soul today with grief and in this journey?

Suzie 4:00

I'm living in the encore is what to best explain it. So um you go through, well, for me, I went through existing and um going through the motions. Um, and then it dawned on me that like my girls are growing and things like that. And um me existing is they they I need to give them an example of how we the best thing I've I I've I ever heard, and it was at Camp Widow, we don't move on, we move forward.

Matt 4:33

I love that quote. I that is such a great quote. It really is. Um, I heard it through Nora McHenry, who gave a TED talk about that and about her loss. And she goes, You don't move forward, you don't move on from, you move forward with, which is forward with, yes.

Suzie 4:48

So the living in the encore. So my life that I thought was going to happen is over. That wife is gone. Um, but that doesn't mean that my physical presence doesn't it it it matters. I matter.

Matt 5:06

Yeah, yeah. I love you matter too. Thank you. I I love the encore because I we won't go down the whole chapter one, chapter two, and chapter I I get that we need to label things at certain points, and I understand because I can't just go like I can't point to a table and call it a chair because it'll confuse everybody. So I I understand why people use the term. For those that aren't familiar, chapter two means like your next serious, deep, meaningful relationship post-loss, whether that's one day or or 10 years later. Um, that uh that's what chapter two means. But it always it always made me and I get why, because they're like it's a continuation of the story, and I'm like, yeah, but it's a whole new volume. It's all it's like the Hobbit versus Lord of the Rings, or I don't know. It's pick your trilogies and there's a subset. It's like it's the same story, but it's different, or it's anyway. So because it makes me feel like the first chapter was less relevant, and so I don't know, but that's me. But I love the encore because you're right, it's the the show that has that ended in that scenario, but yet there's still an encore happening. There's a next, you know, call back to the stage and let's do as we see in concerts, right? Like one more great number, like when someone gets an encore call, right? I think that's beautiful. I like that a lot. That's really well put. Um, so let's talk about how you and your husband, Eric, uh became, get went from I what have I been using go, went from a me to an us. How did that whole story happen?

Suzie 6:31

Well, do you want from yeah when we were 11?

Matt 6:35

Yeah, I mean, if you met at 11.

Suzie 6:38

Um, so he came to our like this tight-knit little Orthodox church in Omaha. And um, and uh he was, you know, he was raised by a single mom. Um, so she was gone a lot, so he was hungry. Um, and so he came to our youth group because he knew in Orthodox Church, you're gonna eat.

Matt 7:02

That's fair. Whatever brings them in the door, right? If it's food, come on in, kid. I love it.

Suzie 7:07

Yeah. So then he was participating in like our fundraisers, like car wash and things like that. And he was warned and threatened, you leave her alone. She's like my sister, you know, our grandfathers immigrated together, you know, and all that kind of stuff. So um I was off limits and um it didn't come up until later because he was like really threatened. You know, you saw the movie Big Fat Greek Wedding How the males are very protective of the female things. I took it as rejection, I took it as he didn't like me.

Matt 7:40

Rejection, whatever.

Suzie 7:43

I'm requiting love. I mean, how can you not love this? Like, anyway, so so later, um, so we ended up at the same high school, but by that time I was like, he rejected me. I'm gonna avoid him. How dare he? And he said, I was part of the nerd herd, the hot nerd herd, but um, and he was, you know, in speech and demate and things like so. In high school, had we dated, it would have ended badly. I would have cried. But later, um, he had lived a little life and he came back um to when he was happiest. He was kind of doing a reflection, like when you know, when did he, you know, a bad breakup really, you know, set him into a reflective so he comes to the festival. And if you've ever been to an Orthodox festival, he wouldn't. So it was a Sunday night of the festival, and he wouldn't um he wouldn't leave until he had my contact information. And I was like, Eric, like I we have to clean up, like they're you know, we gotta fold these, you know, chairs up and stuff like that. He he stayed and he helped and he would not, and everybody's like, Will you just go out with him? So he'll leave.

Matt 8:45

Poor poor guy's cleaning up for hours. He goes, I just want her phone number. Like, why am I doing all this? Didn't ask. It's beautiful. I love how he can't with the the fact that he was reflective in saying when was I happiest? Probably when he was um passively, aggressively flirting with you by calling you the hot nerd nerd herd. That's beautiful. That's great. I've I've never heard the nerd herd. I love it though. I think I think uh I think the nerd herd is currently w ruling the world in a lot of places, which is awesome.

Suzie 9:13

That's right. Now I'm now I'm a mom entrepreneur, yeah.

Matt 9:18

I love it. So so you guys he comes back, he comes back around to his senses. Um, how long did you date before you were married? Um, what were some of your like your best, like, oh my gosh, this is this is the guy that life's gonna be better with than without type scenarios. And then obviously you went from a two-something to a foursome at some point to with two littles.

Suzie 9:39

So um he so that was 2008. We got engaged in 2010, and we were married one, one, one, one.

Matt 9:50

Oh, that's that makes it simple. I'm I'm glad he chose that day. Good for him. Never forget.

Suzie 9:57

I know, but then now here we are every New Year's Day. It's you know, yeah, fair.

Matt 10:03

Isn't it interesting how grief will touch things? Like I, you know, I joke with people have my season of melancholy, but um like my wife's birthday is St. Patrick's Day. I'm like, thanks, Mars. Now that's ruined.

Suzie 10:13

Uh yeah, those those those the calendar is a menace.

Matt 10:17

It can't, I love yes, it can be. So one one one what the what does that spell in binary?

Suzie 10:23

11 January 1st of 2011. 2011.

Matt 10:26

When what was what was like the kind of the falling over in love with him type scenario in your marriage? Like, because obviously we do that many times with our person um as you guys grew in your marriage and and grew your family. Because you have some, I'm looking at the form, you have some very nice things to say about your husband. So what are some of the things that were so endearing to you about him, about Eric?

Suzie 10:53

So I put up uh like a like a wall, because I was like, you know, in in ninth grade, you know, you he really hurt me. I mean, I did like him and stuff like that. And um, so in addition to having his life threatened if he if he if he broke my heart at church, he went out, he went out with a 19-year-old.

Matt 11:15

Oh, that church.

Suzie 11:20

She had a car. But I was like, yeah, I know it makes sense to you because you're a guy. Um, and so, but that was like, you know, I I just I didn't forget like how because there was be until he started dating someone, there was always that, well, maybe, well, maybe, well, maybe. But then he like not only did he date her, he rode in the passenger seat like that. That that was really made me sad. So um he uh he started coming to church with me, which I'm like, oh, you're you know, going through the motion. So anyone can show up at a church and sit down and things like that. Um, but uh it was funny. The first time he wanted to come to church, I um because you know there's the church service and there's a church service before the church service, the orthos before the I told him to come to Orthos, which is when the the Psalms are so he's there, he was there for like three hours. He sat, I was like, Yeah, church hurts at 5 30. So um, but the actual service starts at 6 30, but you know, but he he was so mesmerized. Things that I took for granted growing up, you know what I mean?

Matt 12:31

Because you're an insider, it's just it's just the norm for you, yeah.

Suzie 12:35

He he he was just so taken back by all of the um, you know, the all the the layers of what goes into attending a Greek Orthodox, the icons and the incense and all that kind of stuff. And so to watch him just be like like a like a little kid in a toy, like this is really it kind of like the faith that I took for granted that you know, because it's different when you're the granddaughter of the immigrants, like you go and you just go, and this is what you're doing.

Matt 13:01

You do, yeah, and you don't know, and it's not, I mean, it was new to you the first time you ever do it, but you've been doing it your whole life, so it's never really new, it's just what it's right you do, yeah.

Suzie 13:11

Exactly. And so then he um was very interested in exploring the faith and things, and I instead of being like, oh sure, I was like, no, no, no, no. If you're gonna, if you're gonna go through catechism, this is for your own salvation, it's between you and God. This has nothing to do with you. You'll never hold it over my head. You're not dating, we're not this is not for me, this is for your salvation. And you know what, Matt? It totally was.

Matt 13:36

Oh, it's beautiful, yeah. It totally, it totally was. Um, so you two uh two two littles come along. Um there's actually a third one that we didn't before Delia. Oh, gotcha. Okay. Um, and so how how did that shape your guys' relationship as you became parents?

Suzie 13:59

When we lost our first daughter, yeah. I understand now because when he was dying, his arms were cradling. They were in the shape of cradling. Um I didn't understand it then. It and there was no answer there, she was perfect without a heartbeat. You know, it was it was really painful. Like it, it, it he um the day the I I remember it so like it was so raw still. Um, we got home from the hospital, he put me to bed, and he went outside and he groomed the lawn. It was it was it looked like a golf course. Like he just stayed out there, and at that moment, I was like, you know, everything going through, you know, the the the female body goes through giving birth, and now my husband isn't next to me, he's outside in um he was, you know, like I want to see you hold your own baby, we're not gonna give up and things like that. And um I was so scared and I felt like I failed him, and you know, but later he didn't tell me why. We were kind of like at the hospital brief parents group. We went, you know, when we were further along in our journey, he couldn't he couldn't say the words to me, but he said him to like the the brief dad's group that that's what he could control in the moment. 100% was the lawn.

Matt 15:38

Yeah. That's yeah, it's such a I mean now you I mean, even further down, we'll come to your now introduction to grief, but yeah, and especially as we're gonna talk a little bit more about the different the the just the the makeup of how naturally men and women process grief a little bit differently. Um that totally makes sense. There's a lot of house cleaning after my wife died, and I am not someone that cleans his house.

Suzie 16:05

No, it it was the lawn. It was the lawn. He was every little bit, and but later when I heard him tell he could say it to the men's group there, and I don't, I mean, it it it it made sense. It it you know her existence wasn't for no good reason. It made us the parents that we were the well that I am, you know, that we became and that and that we are now and things. So um then came Delia and I I told him he was rehearsing, so he ended up becoming it like a chanter in the church. And I text him when he was practicing um for an upcoming service with the other with the other Byzantine men's choir. I just texted him picture of the pregnancy test. Beautiful, a little shock and awe, always, always unpredictable.

Matt 17:06

Yeah, I love it. So so Delia, and then how soon behind is the next one?

Suzie 17:12

17 and a half months. Oh wow, that's we were not preventing. I mean, we knew yeah.

Matt 17:18

I mean, listen, when you want something, you get down and you just get to it.

Suzie 17:21

Yeah, we were he well, he was railroad. I mean, time was of the essence. Yeah, you had to make it fish.

Matt 17:28

You had to, yeah, I get it, especially when you're intentional about it. When you really want to, I mean, my wife and I were we we won't get into it, but we are pretty sure we know exactly the minute that everything aligns.

Suzie 17:40

Well, we if you know how the railroad schedule works, you know, you they have their rest days, and it may, you know, their rest days may not fall along when opportune times for yeah, but it worked out 17 and a half months.

Matt 17:53

I mean, that's that's that's a lot of diapers.

Suzie 17:56

You can get pregnant breastfeeding, don't yeah, you absolutely whoever said is not a thing.

Matt 18:01

Uh we had neighbors in Elmhurst that proved that. Um you're like, they're all less than they're Irish, too. They're very good Irish Catholics. We love them. They're I man, that's one of the greatest gifts we had when we moved there. Okay, so little little family of four. Um uh life's kind of churning away. You you've probably gotten a nice little groove of stuff. He has his railroad job, leaves, come back, right? He has it. It sounds like he has a very like uh what like EMTs and firefighters, like it's or pilots, right? Where it's like four on home two, five gone, three home, but you get the schedule pretty far in advance, so you can at least quasi. Because I have a buddy that's uh first responder, and I never forget he would text me like in November, I think, and you'd be like, All right, when do we want to go golfing on this golf trip? Because he got his entire next year schedule. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing on Tuesday, man. Like, I don't know, I can't fly that far out. But so life's moving into a groove. When did things really start to change?

Suzie 19:00

So Sadie, my younger, um, when she was in kindergarten, I went back to teaching full time. So I was a substitute teacher and it worked out really well because um with a substitute teaching schedule, it's flexible, but there were times where he wanted dad daughter time. And um, if I was there, you know, because they, you know, I was the constant parent, I would substitute teach so he could have that one-on-one time and things. And so um, we kind of had a groove, and then um I had I had I had my my job at the alternative school and things, and then my mom got sick. So I tried to go back full-time, but then now my mom's got this, you know, diagnosis and thing, and and and so there was nothing normal about day to day.

Matt 19:53

Yeah.

Suzie 19:53

No, yeah, it I felt normal um being the mom and you know, having the railway, because I because me just you know, subbing here and there, I could have meals prepped for him when he got home and things like that. But um me trying to make it all work, although before I say I regret even going back to school full time, thank God we had that secondary health insurance.

Matt 20:20

Right. Yeah. Oh my god.

Suzie 20:24

So um yeah, it was it was um very challenging. However, he was healthy and he was able to take some leave and be with the girls while I was tending to my parents as well.

Matt 20:39

Yeah.

Suzie 20:39

So I did go through a phase where I was like because I leaned on him so much because both of my parents were were were sick at the same time. Did I miss something with my husband? Because I was taking care of my parents. You know, my mom had a had a prognosis and my dad was it was his health wasn't good either.

Matt 20:59

Yeah.

Suzie 20:59

So I've had to reframe that.

Matt 21:01

Yep.

Suzie 21:02

That's one-on-one time they had with dad.

Matt 21:05

Yeah. You so in grief, right? So this is a great, I mean, this I think is a great little pause point. So, like in grief, you can visit neighborhoods, but you can't move into them. You can visit the Wood of Shitta, but if you live there, it's gonna be a miserable existence for you. And what what helped you reframe that to because obviously probably a lot of this came up after he passed, but like what what helped you reframe it? Because even the words you use about living in the encore, there was obviously some stuff that you were doing or working on that helped you reframe rather than get stuck in that. Well, I should have never taken care of my mom or all the time I lost with my husband because I was taking care of my mom. But you also probably take care of your mom, I'm assuming I didn't know Eric was gonna die as soon as he did. Oh, as soon as he did. But um what was that like I know we're kind of leapfrogging, but what was that? process to get out of the to reframe some of that for you.

Suzie 22:05

So I'll tell you it was Friday the 13th September 2024.

Matt 22:13

Okay.

Suzie 22:14

Okay. My girls were in theater classes. Not the same class because why would we do that?

Matt 22:19

Why yeah why make it simple? Yeah.

Suzie 22:22

So I had a coupon for Bath and Body Works. I dropped my older one off. My younger daughter and I, we were going to to to the the the Maldives Bath and Body Works to use this coupon because it was going to expire and we needed some stuff or whatever. The the Honda Pilot.

Matt 22:38

Yep.

Suzie 22:39

Okay that that's significant because in his chemo days and he had his vancom the vancomycin bag because he had a peritonitis infection he went through and tuned up everything on Atavan everything. Anything he even and I don't know how he got it out. He got the cabin filter out and I didn't even know what it was until they told me he re he had to go behind the glove box to get the cabin filter. This okay so you understand you understand it's a pain in the patoot and he did it yeah and so he knew our journey from Nebraska to Phoenix he knew what was he tuned up the entire Honda pilot. And so my car did not I learned what a cluster was okay I never knew what a cluster was and so now now like the car like freaked out every light was on and stuff and somehow I like to think Eric got it there. I had I took it to the dealer they gave me a a loaner I switched girls at the theater and went back and um my dad my dad was very he raised me to debunk the cultural you know like his hearing who's gonna do this for you if I die tomorrow who's gonna and I was like what do you mean I have to do my own taxes and that's I'm the only girl and my you know I have all um brothers and stuff. And so I stood in there I stood in that dealership and I'm like this I was built for this moment. So I was able to negotiate a car get everyone to to to theater and things like that. My dad voice if I dad them all who's gonna do this for you it rung it rung solid in that Friday the 13th September 2024 I was built for that moment. I was built for this moment I was built for all the moments I just had to I just had to believe it. Yeah yeah it goes back to um when um my my or my priest um when we found out Eric wasn't gonna make it and I had just buried my parents and stuff my priest back in Omaha very close to Eric and he goes do not say why me that's weak.

Matt 24:55

Do not say why me say why not me yeah now definitely if you're in the first year of grief that's a that's a lot to take in but I think like I said like you like you said you had to go through some stuff to hear yourself say I'm built for this moment. I think that there's also the framing of like we got to yeah that's fair we got to live we got to we got to be the love of their life for their life as short as we'd give it all for one more minute one more day one more month but we got to do that and it's like almost like it's a a privilege to go you know I went through all this to be here on the other side to realize that not only am I still standing not only can I do this at some point you switch you were talking about encore you switch from like surviving to I don't love the bumper sticker but surviving to thriving where like I'm living again because I can I can do these things right which is which is beautiful. So you you reframe you reframed it um that you can and you were built for this so mom is sick dad is sick when when did you and how did you find out Eric was I'll say sick and you can share what type of sick okay so you know the calendar April 29th of 2020 April 29th is significant because my oldest brother died scuba diving oh it was 20 years 20 yeah my parents died in the 20th the 20th year of anniversary of his death april 29th 2020 and um so I hooked us selling the house to that was my brother's birthday and things and he's he hoing boxes and everything we finally got the household you know uh you know the estate my mom and dad's estate is closed and um you know in my can I can I just before I lose this thought my mom yeah my my mom um said when she got her terminal diagnosis she said um I can finally go see my son I've been with all of you for 20 years I'm she was so calm and peaceful and I was so angry what is she saying and but I really think that she knew the journey that I was gonna have that she kind of excused herself and so you know because my dad wasn't dying until he had all the stuff that he needed to have to keep us out of probate like he was a stubborn Mediterranean man.

Suzie 27:53

He's I can't die we are you better get an attorney and don't train the estate pay for an attorney legit. So um so it's his birthday we're closing out the house April 29th 2020 he's complaining about back pain and I'm doing the you know rub and tea tree oil you know and all the all the things on you know and and eucalyptus and everything to try and you know ease his back pain and stuff. And so um he's railroad so he was the night shift and then you know the second shift and stuff like that. So May 2nd we made the most of the time before he was going back into work at 3 p.m and it was going on a bike ride we did cosmic yoga with the girls and and stuff and he he made us all lunch before he left it's like that from 9 a.m until he left at 2 30 p.m squeezed a week's worth of activities with the girls and I like I was like could barely keep up with them I'm like oh my gosh now we're going on a bike ride and we like what so um he comes home that night and he thought it was a kidney stone and I'm like you're you're and and I felt awful because it's COVID.

Matt 29:15

Yeah oh gosh yeah jeez yeah and I'm like you're gonna go to the emergency room like I you know because when he would come home from um the um from work he would you know I was taking his clothes and washing it right then and there and you know bringing you know being things yeah yeah and I'm like you're and now I'm like you're gonna go to the ER like oh my gosh like we just got done with this everyone's gone my parents are gone we're done with hospitals we're done with hospitals no we're done with no we're not done with hospitals so he goes he goes there and they found um the trilogy three tumors at the base um it wasn't it wasn't there was nothing with his esophagus but it was at the but at the base below his esophagus three tumors and um I was like I'm not gonna lose my husband I just buried my parents this is this is just cancer this is gonna be you know the miracles happen and and you know doing all the there's no way I'm gonna lose my husband I just lost my parents there's no way and then came the cycle of round one of chemo and he had an anaphylaxic reaction and then um Father's Day his bile duct gave out and then I was trying to have a nice father's day for him because the year before it was Father's Day and my dad had a uh cellulitis infection so I'm like another father's day another hospital trip like is this like happening um yeah it's happening so when so how from diagnosis to when you knew things were not likely going to end the way you wanted to how what how long was that he ended up dying um September 1st of 2020 and when his hemoglobin couldn't hold so they put a temporary stent in it on Father's day and then he had a a stent a month so that was June and then he got one around his of course because it's his birthday his birthday is in July right he's by himself in the hospital because it's COVID um there was a cardiologist that went to a sister Orthodox church that hung out like with him on his birthday and that that made me that made me I'm I'm still forever grateful.

Suzie 31:37

Sure yeah that um because he was you know he was on the inside and stuff and so um around his birthday he had to get another stint and then finally they put um a more permanent one in in August um but that I mean the tumor was cutting off his bile duct so he had the permanent vancomyastin bag that I learned how to change um because it was COVID and um even sometimes like the Facebook algorithms they they think I'm an actual doctor.

Matt 32:07

Right they see yeah it's it's such it's it's amazing the stuff you'll see on your algorithm when you're when you become a professional caregiver for sure. Yeah but yes definitely but having the the doctor in education right I was able able to advocate a little bit like saying I can't give you informed consent I know I sit in a you know an IRB you know I was the grad assistant on an IRB board uh you don't know that I'm of sound mine you don't know you I have to so I was able to gain access when others couldn't and things so um I was still even though he was jaundice I looked at him and I was like what a beautiful man he's got this golden glycerine what people well I don't know if you learned this about the liver so my wife's colon cancer move the liver and when you said stints I remember we went to it was probably just a couple 30 days maybe before she passed they did it they put a bunch of stents in her liver and what the first warning sign was the the liver specialist came in and he goes first off for a woman her age her health it shouldn't have been that hard for her to come out of anesthesiology like she really struggled to like come back um because the gut cancer is just beating her up and then he was like here's the thing we only make stints so small and then we can't and the problem is is the tumors so people understand it's kind of like your lungs where the tumors get so ingrained into the little capillaries that there's nothing they can do. And I didn't realize at the time what he was prepping me for is he goes this is probably the last time she's ever going under for anything because she just can't and so that kind of like care when you're in caregiver mode you're just like you're thinking like of course we're just we'll just go back to the hospital again let's go back because you're kicking as one as one very highly educated oncologist said we just want to kick the can down the road as long as we can I'm like you went to school for that like yeah that's the best analogy you've got but you're just trying to right you just you just at some point you're just trying to you know do what you can and hope for the best and maybe something I mean it's tough in cancer world but maybe something new will come along that will really help but yep and clinical trials and yeah yeah yeah he never his clean hemoglobin never held together yeah Marcy's was white blood cloud white blood cell count was was always the issue with whether or not she could go on to some other stuff but so I want to I want to really take a moment and recognize how difficult I don't I'll have to remember I can't I can't right now off the top of my head but how difficult and different it must have been to have a loved one I'm gonna say on the path of dying during COVID not from COVID like in the sense of like you can't get access to him you can't do all the normal things that you could have done like did how do you feel that like you said he was alone on his where if everything was I'm using air quotes normal you would have brought him a birthday cake in the hospital like did what was your feeling around like your ability to care for your person with the restrictions because of COVID at the time.

Suzie 35:21

Isolating so let me tell so so his birthday July 6th so the we had great friends like the you know in in the neighborhood um in the church and things and um special family had my kids um they had like a little farm out you know um for the fourth of july and then they you know um you know I don't honestly I don't know I I I look back and try to like I I just had so many people that trusted I don't I know what family they were with on the fourth but his birthday um the neighborhood I think but I sat in the dark on the fourth that was his favorite holiday because that was so close to his birthday yeah and the the girls were taken care of and I I you know I was living for the phone calls and um and I'm gonna go ahead and say this because it's been you know long enough but thank God I was an educator in the city of Omaha and had so many CNAs that were my students at one point texting me all of the information. Oh yeah I had I had a lifeline and I was so glad I had that because I knew you know I they they gave me updates and things like that. And some people that didn't have that that didn't have their left in the dark or yeah they knew that was into waiting for the call yeah yeah they all knew they all knew that was my husband um and they were you know I had I had my time even though I wasn't in there I had people messaging me um but that was the day the 4th of July was the day he was moved from one health system that where he could have one caregiver to the university health system where they locked us out. And we tried to keep him at the one hospital system and but the they were they had this you know they had the stent to the bile duct they had the stent to the the um the gallbladder you know the heat that that that time it was two stents and I think what people don't realize the stent is the size of a bobby pin. Oh it's teeny yeah people yeah yeah it's yeah it's that tiny yeah um so he was home for a short time um after the stents were placed in August and um it was it was it was scary because I I looked at him and and I mean he was he looked like like so skinny skeleton and stuff but um it was time because he was very disoriented and um he was up and like opened the garage door and I'm like where are you going? Like you know now now I have a liability like he's go he's thinks that he needs to drive somewhere he was going through this I gotta get to work and stuff like that. I'm like no you don't and um I and I'm sure it was the the peritonitis infection and things like that. And then um he went back to the hospital and I was learning how to do the pleurix strain what's that again you know the pleuric strain that they put to to suction the ascites fluid. Oh yeah yeah okay uh and that did it for him that was when he went from fighting and rallying angry I not I don't think he was angry at me although I know that was painful for him and stuff and that's when um all he wanted was to talk to the priest and have his confession and take his communion and that was another hurdle.

Matt 39:08

Yeah because I'm I martyred myself I said you can lock me up I just lost my parents I'm gonna lose my husband yeah you know the Orthodox church will raise my kids the priest is coming in here he wants to have his confession he wants to have his sacraments and he you know he's worthy he's you know a a good faithful man and we got the priest in there and I was ready I was like you know you're gonna go ahead and lock me up go ahead and incarcerate me I will I will I will go and I will you they there are so many people that lost and again not just because of COVID but so many people that lost people during the COVID restrictions and the lockdowns there are so many things I'm glad you fought for it but little things it just people weren't able to get and we don't have a lot of well traditionally generically in the United States I can't speak for everybody who lives in this and has culture in the United States but we don't have great grief stuff. Like we have a funeral you do a potluck and that's that right well if we only have those two things you take those away you're like someone was just telling me how they can only have 10 people at their who was it oh I remember now it's my friend Michelle she was saying they can only have 10 people at the funeral and everybody else was in cars. She goes it was the the craziest thing I my my my husband is being buried while my brother and my brother in law and my brother are watching it on a zoom call from 200 yards away in a car. You're like it's so surreal. It just even it doesn't seem like much but that little act matters so much because when it's when we don't have a lot of them you take a few away and it it matters a lot. It's a lot of percentages. So I'm glad you fought for that and had that happen because man there's a lot of people that you know they just didn't and it it it impacts it impacts the processing of grief. And I know um my wife saying almost very similar um one of our last well it wasn't one of it was our last time in the hospital and anyway basically she just looked at me she goes I don't want to do this anymore and in her entire cancer journey never once said that was always on time to every oncologist every needle every poke every prod every liver liver resection test thing all never once ever said I really am not liking this um she never said she liked it but like and it was she's looked me down and she's like I just want to go home I'm done I'm done and it was like oof um and it's hard it's a it's a it's and it's a it's it's hard but it's also like we know them better than anybody else and and not their acceptance of what's to come makes it like easier on us but we know that they're leading us down the path in which they want to go. There's no reason to like fight them on it. Like you know we're key they're like no and now if out of love I've heard stories where people are like yeah they did one more because I really wanted them to but it didn't do anything it's like well it's because they did out of love it's okay so COVID sacraments um at home was he was he at home no he did not want to die in front of the girls okay he was adamant he did not want to die in front of the girls it's okay and he wasn't wrong because the people that bought our house yeah that was the first question they asked if he died in the house oh really so you're like no he did not he died out on his perfectly manicured lawn no scared right the same hospice house my mom died in yeah uh yeah but they didn't ask you that they asked you about your husband you're like well technically um so where where not that it where was he like was he in a hospice facility like a hospice place or he moved so after the pleurex drain and that like the University of Nebraska was like pretty much we've done all we can I was begging uh because I think if they like they they now will do immunotherapy with um if it's fourth stage but at that time they had to try chemo before immunotherapy and that is another thing that like would we be having a different conversation had they gone to immunotherapy but that's part of the encore I advocate I still advocate so once the pleuric strain went in I didn't want to believe it the pleuric strain is kind of like the last like it doesn't come out yes and I didn't want to believe that yeah the liver is gonna work again and we're gonna take this thing no but it's it's it's to the liver very last because you know the ascites fluid and they get and and for me I don't know how how you felt about this but when the ascites fluid was was you know present and um build up I'm like oh they're getting the he's getting his weight back he's getting his weight back no Matthew it was toxins build up but I didn't want to believe it so then um yeah once the Ploric strain went in oncology was like and palliative yeah this is it yeah

Suzie 44:00

And um, and then I was like, did they like triage this? Like I challenged them and I had the priest come in here and I said, you know, you can't do any sort of informed consent. Did he get the quality of care that he should have? Had I just sucked it up and done what they said, you know. Um they did end up two days after Eric had his confession, they did change the clergy policy. Coincidence?

Matt 44:25

We don't want to deal with another lady like that again.

Suzie 44:28

No, no, she's on fire. Yeah. She's she's from the alternative school. She's got students in the hospital in incarceration.

Matt 44:37

She's got them on both sides. We don't we don't need that sort of trouble. We don't need that smoke. So in hospice, um, were you were you there when he when he passed?

Suzie 44:46

Or he clocked it. Uh we were in the parking lot.

Matt 44:52

Oh oh wow. Okay. Okay. There's there's a lot of there's there's a lot there are so many stories about people waiting until their loved ones aren't in the room. Like literally, there's so many stories where the spirit is like, just go get a cup of coffee. And I just yeah, I'll and I'll just and when you come back, I just it's not all the time, but so I think that um uh for those of us that have dealt with this firsthand and have seen it, I think that there unfortunately one thing our society does not do well is for the large majority of us, we are going to not be in this meat sack anymore, we will die. And our society does not handle it very well when it's like when done in a beautiful way, it it it can be so peaceful and loveling and all those things. And so so you were in the you're in the parking lot going to see him and with the girls.

Suzie 45:54

He did not, he did not want to take his last thought. He was he made yep, and the minute, the minute I parked, the I mean, I might but I I knew I because what had happened was um somebody brought the girls um these builder bears so we could record his voice, but those don't last forever.

Matt 46:14

So that's all another conversation, yeah.

Suzie 46:17

Yeah, yeah. So um, so the I mean they were so little and they had been in the hospice house so much. So anyway, all right, so we get these. I'm gonna take them. Somebody else could, you know, um see him because they were letting like one person in. Okay, I'm gonna take the girls' bilder bear right down, you know, up and down center street and stuff like that. The minute I stopped the car, the phone rang.

Matt 46:38

Oh wow.

Suzie 46:40

We were we were there, but we weren't in he wasn't alone. But um, no, he didn't want to die in front of the girls. That period the end. That's it. I'm not dying in front of the girls. Yep. And he didn't. Well, good for him. Well, it has come up. My younger was like, I wasn't there when he went. And and and um I think I think she she understands why she wasn't there, but I think that like, you know, like when we had to have one of our rescue cats put down, we were there with um, you know, that kind of thing. But yeah, that's what he wanted.

Matt 47:16

That's what it's amazing what the human spirit can will into existence sometimes. It really is.

Suzie 47:23

I gotta tell you something funny because I I think that you'll understand why he did what he so meanwhile, it's COVID. Um, Uni Pacific is right sizing, and um he's worried about because he's middle management, his job stability and things.

Matt 47:38

Yep.

Suzie 47:38

And so, like HR, I was like, we're gonna fill out short-term disability. I was four stage diagnosis, we should be doing long stage. I'm like, no, short-term disability first, right? We will we will you know reevaluate in you know whatever time frame it was. And he was worried because he the department that he was in was not part of the union because it's middle management, yeah. And they were talking about being part of the union and um very worried about his job security.

Matt 48:03

Sure.

Suzie 48:05

And he died on September 1st. Had he lived another day, he would have been furloughed on September 2nd.

Matt 48:13

Oh, jeez.

Suzie 48:14

So his personality, you can't furlough me if I'm dead.

Matt 48:19

Like can't. Well, you can. It's just the paperwork is a nightmare. It's just it's not worth the hassle. It's so hard to furlough.

Suzie 48:25

I got his I got his his his severance package paperwork the day of his funeral.

Matt 48:30

You know, that's a irony. That's a big that's funny. The world's biggest severance package. You're like, man, you have no idea how much he severed with you guys. I mean, he severed all the ties with work, like literally. Um, well, I like you know, you gotta find some of those little what I gotta go find it. I wrote it down. I can't find it. He always had to have the last word, yeah. Heavenly, what do they call it? Heavenly hugs, heavenly winks. I don't know. Someone someone said something from a grief share that they shared with me, and I liked it. It's like these little nods, right? Where you kind of look back and you go, there's some there's something at play here. So Eric passes away. The girls are how old at the time? Ballpark?

Suzie 49:07

Six and seven.

Matt 49:08

Six and seven. Oh, that's okay, six and seven.

Suzie 49:10

Yeah.

Matt 49:11

What immediately after that, and still, still kind of in COVID. What did you find? What did you try to access as far as your own help, their help? What did you find helpful? What did you find really not helpful? Let's go in the first, ah, we'll go three to six months.

Suzie 49:31

I was out of there.

Matt 49:33

Yeah.

Suzie 49:34

He he told me it's an election year, sell the house, real estate, you know, may or may not just get out. Yep, get get out. Just go.

Matt 49:43

She broke that rule of moving in the first. Don't make any big life choices like moving in the first year, which there's one rule about grief. There are no rules. So anyway. So okay.

Suzie 49:52

Well, I I mean, we had this, it we it was it was a big, beautiful house by a lake, and it was a three-car garage. He had his workshop, the finish. I mean, it was the what we so had worked so hard and made all the sacrifices for house. But it my my when Sadie was six, it was like 4,500 square feet. It was it was beautiful, it was. I uh mommy, mommy, because it was three floors, and when you have that little voice that can't find mom, yeah, especially with everything that has just happened.

Matt 50:28

Yeah, I still listen. Mine's eight. We're seven years in, we're a two-story house. I she hasn't been alone ever in her life, and she still worries. Like, if I'm if if I've gone somewhere, I'm like, when have I ever gone anywhere? But she's right, Dad, where are you? In the bathroom, usually.

Suzie 50:48

Yeah. So um fair enough. I it was a beautiful neighborhood, so you know, suburbs and stuff. But when you go from being the couple, like, and don't get me wrong, my neighbors were wonderful. They were all, I have no idea where my kids were half the time, they're somewhere on the block. But now the husbands were really good about like doing the yard work and things like that, but then it's like the okay, I'm gonna have to figure this out on my own. They all have their own families, they all have their own. Um, and it he obviously he was the lawn guy, and that was a bit. And I it was a lot. I was I I was blessed to live in a house like that for um it's kind of crazy. He found that house when my dad was dying. And um I remember he we closed on Valentine's Day of 2020 and I left on December 14th of 2020.

Matt 51:50

Wow.

Suzie 51:51

And I was, how am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do this? We gotta take care of my mom and dad's house. But he knew he his soul knew he did just enough for us to make, you know, I'm I still made money on that house, even though we weren't there very long. Very long, yeah. But I kept telling him, like in Valentine, like I was like, we can't move until spring break. Like, I'm back full time. I gotta get my hours back up. I was on FMLA, like the you know, the I need, you know, we have teacher in service and I gotta train, you know, all this kind of stuff. And he started moving, and he um in like I would not, I he was half Sicilian, half German. I did not fight with him. Like, I we I did not fight with the man. I'm not you know, I'm just gonna lose anyway. So he would call it buffering browser. I'm shut down. You're buffering, you would call it, yeah. You know me well enough, you know, I'm sure you've seen it.

Matt 52:44

But yeah, he's just buffering. Yeah.

Suzie 52:49

Anything I say, get it, even when I was like trying to comfort him. Oh, if you get furloughed, no, I'm working full time now. I've got the you know, I'm back and he's like, You're not supporting me. But I've got a I went back with, you know, when I was home sobbing and I was able to complete my PhD, I'm good. We're good. No, that was not who he was.

Matt 53:09

It was yeah, you know, get it, yeah.

Suzie 53:11

Um so I was just like, okay, like this, because again, going back to the railroad schedule, we don't fight with your railroad spouse because if they get, you know, if they're on call or something like that, that you can't pause that fight for how many days just come walking back in for round two.

Matt 53:30

You're like, that was four days ago. Like, what are you? Yeah, that makes sense. It makes sense.

Suzie 53:35

Yep. You can I learned as a railroad wife, and I share this. I I hope somebody needs some out there needs to hear this. You can either be right or you can be happy.

Matt 53:45

Yeah, there is something to that. You can't be both. Right. You you break the cardinal rule of making no big decisions in the first year and off you go. You relocate. How did you don't have to share like your location, but how did you choose where you were going? How did you like what was the childhood church family?

Suzie 54:02

Oh, that's right.

Matt 54:03

Oh, you went back, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you're sharing before we pressed.

Suzie 54:05

They were all ended up from Nebraska in this one area where you are now.

Matt 54:09

Yeah.

Suzie 54:10

Yep.

Matt 54:11

That's beautiful. I you know how I chose to go. I'm in Denver now, um, and I've said that before, so I don't mind, but um, I chose because I had a connection to some widows here, um, both from my wife's colon cancer journey and just from some other widows. And I have a West Coast bias, I can admit it. I grew up in California, so no offense to East Coast people, I just don't understand it. Um, so it's not bad. I just don't know. I understand West Coast, um, mountains and stuff. And so my whole thing was like, well, if the little one's gonna be going to school, I better I need to get before I can get. And so um, we did, and it, but it was well over a year and it was rushed. I mean, there was a lot of things that I mean, very similar where I was like, well, we're moving, and within two weeks the house is on the things, you sign up for school in Denver, and off we went. People were like, What just happened? I was like, I gotta go. Um, so there's nothing I think I think the takeaway would be this. I think with the uh with like the the cardinal, don't make any big decisions. I think what people are trying to say is like, don't make any huge, emotionally based decisions in the first year because we're all in a mess. But if you know you can't keep up the house and you know you can't keep the car, you're gonna go broke doing those things, you gotta think past like the next three to six months because you don't want to be in a bad spot a year from then. And also, we as the people that are in charge of our little family unit, minus the other adult who died, we also have to go like and I've I don't I think I've stole this from someone, I don't know who to give her credit to, but I go when the we becomes a me, everything changes. You have to decide what's best for you now. Compromise gets a bad rap of like a dirty word in a relationship. So you're comp like, no, I mean compromise is to live in Chicago because that's what my wife's career was. Listen, if it was up to me, we'd have moved to insert Warm Island. Like, I like you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, no, but that's not a bad thing, right? And we do that out of love, we do it out of respect, we do it all these things in relationship. But when that second half is gone, all of a sudden you got to go, what a what is and this is a version of yourself that's never existed on the planet before because you're now carrying grief, you're carrying loss, right? And it's all like you can't make the decision like you were 26. You're now, I'm paraphrasing, you're now 46 with kids. Like, you can't just you're a whole new version of yourself that you didn't ask to be. And so I think that's why people are saying, like, you know, don't make a big decision. But if you sit back and go, like, oh, I know it's best for me because I'm me now, I'm not a we, I don't have to consider railroad job. I've got these two humans I need to raise in a support group that I know I can go find. No dings to my current neighbors, but eventually their life, as we like to say, go back to normal, whatever that means. And so making that sort of decision, I don't think is necessarily a bad thing, especially when it's made from a space of us understanding ourselves. But I do I do understand where people like don't make any big decisions first year. And I'm like, Well, I think it really is like big emotional decisions.

Suzie 56:51

Yeah, don't go run and get married to the next person.

Matt 56:55

That's pretty solid advice. Um I so off you go to your new location, you have kind of a built-in community, uh-huh, and so you celebrate the year of his passing in a new location. Did that do anything? Like, was that weird for you to handle to be in a new house, a new spot? Because what I realized is when I when I officially moved out of the Midwest, I realized I can't go back to the people that knew my wife without getting on a plane. So I see people every day that never knew my wife existed. I live in a home that will never have any of her memories in it. And it was like this after a couple of months, I it really settled in with me. I was like, oh, this is a grief wave I was not expecting. So in that first kind of year of being in the new spot, what was that? Did that bring up any any kind of weird stuff for you or the kiddos?

Suzie 57:43

Um, I when it was the year anniversary, so I like to look at me moving was the last marital decision because he knew.

Matt 57:54

Oh, that's a beautiful way to put it.

Suzie 57:56

I like that. He said sell the house, it's in a you know, the property value, you know, things like that. Yep. He knew he knew my you know, my childhood church family just by coming there for the food when we were 11 and stuff like that. Right. They remember him, us growing up together, and things like that. So um, I don't remember the I think it might be the book of Timothy. The widow, if the if she's widowed with children, she's supposed to re supposed to like like return to her parents. Well, my parents had just died. So that's so uh, you know, my priest and and um his wife were my spiritual mother and father growing up and things like that. So now, you know, us being, you know, in the same city um with their family. So, in a sense, it's it's kind of you know, it's was the spiritual plan.

Matt 58:43

Yeah.

Suzie 58:44

Um, and like I say, he knew and we don't tell him no.

Matt 58:48

Don't fight with him, don't fight.

Suzie 58:50

No, no, no, no. Especially he's on the railroad, like gone for, you know, until I join him in the, you know. Um, so it was actually going back. So the church that we went to um back in Omaha, we did go back to when they finally they were um like doing like fundraising to make a building and stuff, and it's this beautiful location, and there's a Messory school on the grounds and a retirement facility, some multi-generational and stuff like that. Wow. There is a candle table that someone else um and he ended up passing away not too long ago, built. You know, he was a craftsman like my husband, and um it's dedicated dedicated to him. And then, like when they did the church opening and stuff like that, they um honored the people that that had passed along the way, and it said, um planted the seed but won't enjoy enjoy the shade. It's beautiful. So it's beautiful, but it's so heavy to be there. He should be there, and he's missed, and people are grieving his last right with me. And it it is beautiful to go back, and it's a beautiful church, and I everybody like was so helpful and things, but it's also been living in this.

Matt 1:00:11

No, you said heavy. That's a very apropos, yeah.

Suzie 1:00:15

Yeah, and the and the weather was terrible. It was when we were back there, like the I don't miss the Nebraska winters, I don't miss the sideways rain, I don't miss the thunder snow, I don't, I don't miss tornado alley. I'm still you know that's okay.

Matt 1:00:28

There's no hey, there's Nebraska is aware of what they have going on. You're not offending anybody in Nebraska by telling them you don't miss it. I've never met anybody from Nebraska that says the first thing on their top three about Nebraska is the weather. No one, no one I've ever met that's in Nebraska goes, you know what I love? The weather. That's it's it's it may show up in the top 10, but it's definitely not top five. So what's helped you and the kiddos? I know you mentioned um are they they're in some therapy, are they just as needed? Are they in group therapy? Like what's working for them at their ages?

Suzie 1:00:59

Um, the so they do individual, we do family. Um, I mean, the cat it's compounding grief.

Matt 1:01:06

Yep.

Suzie 1:01:07

I mean, my mom, nine months later, my dad, nine months. I mean, it's it's ongoing, but there are you know, there are wins uh, you know, um, that we've seen like how we progress and things like that. And, you know, um my younger daughter speaking up for herself and things like that. My older daughter, you know, like her confidence and stuff like that. So it's it's I don't think with therapy it's an end goal. Like we're graduated. I I think when you know, because some different milestone moments come up all the time, especially when you have that parent that should be there.

Matt 1:01:43

Yeah. Well, and there's all the I mean, there's there's so it's uh one of the things I I think therapy gets a really bad bad projection of is that people haven't done it. You're right. There okay, for maybe very specific things, there is a you're no longer you no longer uh are binge eating emotionally, like you've you've found the tools for that. So there sometimes there is an an end goal, if we will. But I think one of the things I found, especially when we talk about littles, is just allowing them to understand that therapy is a space that someone can hold for you to talk about hard things, and it doesn't have to be your parent. Right. Because I mean, my we we I check in about once every six months for my little and the resounding answers every time they're like, she's doing great. And I'm like, there's no way she'd be doing great. I'm in charge, and I'm not doing great, I'm in charge myself. So I don't know how the person I'm in charge I'm just doing great. They're like, she's fine, right? And when she's not fine, that's what that's when we we get more we get more uh deep into what that is. But and the fact that you go individual and family, I think is huge because you're doing all those. They're in they're gonna grieve differently, they're in individuals, but you're also grieving as a family as well. So that's really great that you guys all go um in that context because I worry sometimes that people go like they almost compromise compartmentalize, wow, um their grief and go like, no, that's my kid's grief. I don't need to be present for that. Like, that's theirs, right? And it's like I don't need and it's like no no, you like y'all need to be in it kind of together because it's a messy soup. Um, you did mention in the notes that rescuing cats has helped.

Suzie 1:03:14

Um, yeah. Uh we we're we're cat lovers. There's something, something's you know, um, I have I have tailored back a little bit just because you know we're so busy and stuff like that.

Matt 1:03:25

But uh I think 36 cats is too many. You're right. You should probably stop it.

Suzie 1:03:29

We have two right now, they're both black cats.

Matt 1:03:31

Okay, just two. Two is fine.

Suzie 1:03:33

Yeah, we just had to say goodbye to our tuxedo cat who took it uh uh and found a baby rattlesnake that made it into the yard. Oh no. Um, but he didn't die from the rattlesnake bite, luckily. But it was one of those, like I think it was his way of saying you've got to get this yard secured and stuff like that. So yeah. So I looked at it.

Matt 1:03:54

Someone's gotta come take care of this lawn, lady. Like, yeah, too close to home, cat. A little too close to home. Um okay, so right, that's I love that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I do, I do agree with your thing of um unf this is why we use the word solo, and I will hopefully, uh not hopefully, but um, when I leave this earthly plane, people will know the difference between solo and single. Um, you did mention, and it is a thing that, and the reason I always like to to say solo and be out in front of it is because the minute we say single parent, right or wrong, in our society, there's an immediate picture painted, right? There's some sort of baby mama drama or divorced dad drama or whatever, and we're like, that's not our situation. We have our own drama and grief, but that is not what's happening here. There's no every other weekend, there's no, like, you know, if something happens to me, I I never had as much anxiety as I do now, not even with my older kid. Because I was like, well, if I get hit by a bus, she'll be fine. She's got her mom. I like don't even go outside now because I'm like, well, if something happens to me, my kid's screwed. Like, I was like, where did this come from? So definitely agree with that on your thing. It's it's really unfortunate. And hopefully, you know, I I lost my dad at a young age. And what's interesting is uh my mom did such a good job. This just this just happened not that long ago. Someone I grew up with, I don't know how it came up, but somehow I was sharing our story of how I, or maybe they listened to my mom. They had no idea that that's why we moved from Southern California to Northern California because my dad died. She just was like, I just always thought you had like a dad that wasn't around. And I was like, huh, yeah, I guess we never really brought it up. We never was like, Dad's dead. It was and this is someone I knew all the way from elementary from sixth grade to graduate high school. She's like, I just assumed you had a dad that wasn't around. And I was like, that's what most people would assume for a child under the age of 18 that their parents are not dead. So therefore, so hopefully they can um I don't want to say stand proud, but they can they can find their identity and realize that they are different. And in this case, they're awesome, but not alone. There's there's you did I'm gonna circle to this in just a second. Um actually no, I'll come to it now. Um, that you went to a camp called Camp Widow, and at the time they're on a little different now. But they were able to be around other kids, right? Oh yeah, they did. I think that's super powerful. So tell me more about what Camp Widow was like. I know they've changed how they run it, but explain what the one because I think it's going to segue into potentially camps. But go ahead.

Suzie 1:06:13

Talk about Camp Widow that you So it was at um it was in San Diego at the mirror in San Diego. And all of the adult functions were on one side of the hotel. All the kids you went to this area. So there was that. Yes.

Matt 1:06:37

Any cancer parent. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Suzie 1:06:39

Cats can so which there is a beautiful gift in that, but they don't want to go this year. Like they yeah. Um, but um, when we were at Camp Widow, I was able to be confident that they were taken care of, they're gonna eat, they're gonna go to this activity, and I can just be one and get to the know the the community better. Yeah, and we the adults did a deal of de la morcha celebration, the kids did. They had pictures of him and stuff like that. Uh and they were cared for and supported, and it wasn't on my like I could actually grieve and not suck it up because my kids are sad.

Matt 1:07:13

Right, right. And I love that they're around. I remember uh I share the story before on the podcast. I remember bumping into an old guy. He wasn't that old, he was like 40, but I golf and I'm like 17, and I he somehow comes up and I go, Oh, we moved here when my dad died when I was 11. He goes, Oh wow, my dad died about the same age when I was and I literally thought, You survived like you have a wife and kids, like you're normal. Like I was like, tell me, tell me, because I hadn't really met anybody really close to me that had had a dead parent, right? And as I've gotten older, obviously we all walk among each other, but it's not something we don't get a tattooed, we won't wear a scarlet letter on our sleeve or anything. But um, I think there's something really powerful about kids realizing like they're not it feel I mean, I know what it felt like to be 11, and so like it feels like you're the only person on us widowers and widowers feel it too. Like we're the only ones going through this, but part of the podcast and part of the groups we have is to let people know that although you may feel lonely, you're not alone. There is someone else. I may not understand exactly what you're going through, but I I can I can empathize what it's like to have the messy laundry, the hard schedules, the filling out the form that their parents deceased in school. I get it, and it sucks. Um, so for e and I can only imagine how affirming and caring that must be for kiddos, too. So Camp Widow was good. They did switch it. I've heard nothing but good things about Camp Widow in general, so I think it is a good thing to mention. Camp Kempsum, I didn't realize that they didn't separate them. I thought they did. So I've always heard good things about Camp Kempsum because of the cancer part, but I didn't I thought they did sad stories, okay stories, or still continuing stories. I didn't realize they they're all mixed in together. That's okay. It's their camp, they can do what they want to do.

Suzie 1:08:56

Oh, it's still, I mean, they they they there was some positives, but yeah, um, what I have to answer, I I can't, and I've get, you know, the the there's the parent evaluations and things like that. It comes down to it, it's run by the college, the you know, social work department volunteers, you know, you are yeah, and so um, but I can I can I tell you, I've like um when I talk to my kids, I'm like, remission is no easy, you know, journey either because you always live in fear of yeah, of the next no good scan coming. Yeah, yeah, yep, yep. So um, yeah, I mean, but the the fact for that we could go be at Camp Widow together but separate was was I hope that I hope there's more.

Matt 1:09:41

I have to do some digging. I I feel like there's gotta be one of the things.

Suzie 1:09:44

I posted the one they do have the kid one, but is that the one in Tampa? Um I thought there was I thought it was in um Schaumburg, maybe Illinois, but yep, there's one in there too, yep. To um travel to San Diego to have that that weekend versus to travel to Schomburg is it definitely for a day, a day workshop. If hopefully I think that the goal is to take him around the United States, I think it is, I hope it would because I think Campbell is doing a great job.

Matt 1:10:16

So three-hour drive I could do.

Suzie 1:10:18

Yes, if it's a flight and a rental car.

Matt 1:10:23

So you've talked about it a bit, but I want to lean a little heavy into where and how did your faith get you through, get weak, get stronger with uh Eric's uh passing.

Suzie 1:10:41

When he was holding um the icon of the resurrection, just laying there, and he he the way he was holding it, um it was a very powerful moment. His body was broken, his body was withering away, his his body, you know, was he aged, he looked like he was 80, 90 years old, but he had that grip on that icon. And there were there was no words. But I I was like, he's he's going. And you know, if we if you know, for people of faith, we we believe we are not uh we are in this world, we're not of this world. We are journeying somewhere else. Our our time here is is temporary, and um I I watched him grow in his own faith. Um and in a sense that draw that drew me nearer to mine. I mean, even when, you know he was taking care of my dad, my dad was very there was a lot of stuff going on there. He he wanted he did not want his daughter um like shifting him and things like that and moving him. He he relied heavily on my on my husband. And there was a I don't know, they were very close. There was something like my dad was kind of the dad that that Eric, you know, he didn't know his his biological dad growing up and stuff, and so they were there was a a closeness there that like a I don't I don't know I can't even explain it, but um it's almost like in the end, like I was like rubbing the lidocaine on my dad's shingles, but my my husband was like, you know what I mean?

Matt 1:12:34

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Suzie 1:12:38

So um I uh and my dad was a faithful, obviously, you know, we there was no choice. We weren't going to church period in the end, whatever the weather was in Nebraska. It doesn't matter if it was, you know, 12 just no, we were going to church. So that was, you know, but that was but their their um spiritual brotherhood was delightful, it was amazing because we went from my dad, like when Eric proposed, he's like, Do you know the upkeep on a Gen X Mediterranean girl? Like just like uh this like sense of humor, but not like um so going back to my childhood church family, we kept in touch before there was social media and Facebook and texting and all that. We actually had to write a letter, dial one there, yeah, right, and to have that calm um from the Sunday school teacher that watched the youth group, like watched us interact and stuff and stuff like that. She's she made it sound so easy. If you're physically strong enough to move here, get here, we'll figure out the rest. Yeah, done.

Matt 1:13:56

Yeah, yeah. Is there a scripture? Why do I feel no no? You already said it, where it's we're in this world, but we're not of this world. That is scripture.

Suzie 1:14:06

That's that's yeah, that's okay. I just I wanted to get it. That's the book of John. That's like before the Last Supper.

Matt 1:14:12

Yeah, I I think it's beautiful, so I just want to make sure we you got that in there. And then um the last thing, and then I have I have the very last, I have some questions I pose right at the end, but I want to make sure we take just a moment to mention something else you found very useful. Um, part of the legal stuff that we widows and widowers have to deal with is what have you found um that you are now doing uh that is helpful in that area?

Suzie 1:14:40

Well, going back to my mom and dad dying so close to each other, they had a trust. It just my dad needed to change it. But my dad was had the color the um cellulitis and the shingles and all this kind of stuff. And then I had the tall task of um uh we can't drain it, we can't drain the state. Like your grandparents got here, they had nothing, they had to farm. One of them had a mechanic shop, one of them had, you know, so yeah, don't spend any of the money, but we need to get it changed. And so I used I used the legal shield membership and I got the legal shield membership because I was going to use it and close it when everything was done. And so I was able to just be a daughter to my dad and not have to worry about retaining an attorney and expenses and things like that outside the membership for my dad to get everything done. Um, it's it's you know, minimal, you know, cost to you know, have a trust updated with with the membership. Um, and that gave my dad peace. And my dad was very, he his body was was shutting down, but he was very stressed and anxiety because that's the guy that he was. So um that giving my dad peace with the powers of attorneys and things like that, and not paying thousands and thousands of dollars, I could just be a daughter at the time. And so then Eric and I at that time were just joking, well, we got this membership, we should do our, you know, just to have it. But that was the segue to the next journey. We got it done, and then he's gets this diagnosis, and so then to be able to move within uh two, three months after, but still deal with stuff in Nebraska through that membership. Yeah, I was able to move, do the house, and settle things in Nebraska and get out of Nebraska before it was snowing when we pulled out on December 14th before the big snow came. Yeah, so it's been the attorneys, like when I was dealing with all that, they said you're in the best worst case scenario.

Matt 1:16:49

Yeah, like you have this trilogy of death, yep, but everything, everything legally that would give you a headache.

Suzie 1:16:56

There's no probate because you because they saved, you know. So um that has led to a shady contractor, not paying a supplier, yep, the membership saving me. I could go on and on.

Matt 1:17:07

Yeah.

Suzie 1:17:07

Um, so last year my girls they make soap and b and bath bombs, and so they do these kid farmers markets. And so um somebody was taking pictures of their stuff and didn't purchase, and I watched my daughter shut down. Like, uh and I'm like, oh no, no, no. Now they have a trademark. They have I have a DBA, and I yeah, yeah.

Matt 1:17:31

So all through legal shield. So I think you know, we we we mentioned, I think briefly, like, you know, for all the people that should that should know how important it is to plan for the worst but hope for the best, are people who have gone through great grief, whether it's loss of a parent, loss of a spouse, specifically what we're talking about. But I think it's important. So I'll make sure I put a link to the Legal Zoom stuff in our show notes. Um, I think it's super important. Uh, there's also a couple of other great organizations out there that are on my website that I think are very worth it for. I would love some resources, yeah. For sure.

Suzie 1:18:02

And even like when he was in oncology, his ID got compromised. And so the ID shield portion of legal shield, you get $3 million of coverage. And yeah, and I needed my credit to not be affected.

Matt 1:18:11

Well, and when when you're when you're A, whether it's in your caregiving mode and you anything comes up, it's just it's well, I'll just pick a number. It's 25-fold harder to deal with it, right? Like it seems like a simple task, but somebody on this podcast right now who is speaking may or may not have forgot to file taxes because he was so out of it the first year. I just and our I just yeah, I thought I had done it for 10 years. I got the 11th year for free. My wife had died. And so I go to my accountant and he goes, You never filed last year.

Suzie 1:18:43

What?

Matt 1:18:43

And he goes, Yeah. He goes, You never answer our emails, never answer a call. We thought you just won another accountant. I was like, uh oh. It's just so anything that is you can kind of outsource or give yourself a buffer, no, no pun intended, give yourself some time to buffer because anything, I mean, sometimes just picking out your breakfast cereal is hard enough when you're in deep grief. So if there's things that we can kind of outsource or give a layer of protection between us having to make that or outsource to the point of where it's just the expert handling it for you, going, like you have option A or option B, what would you like to do? Because both are going to be fine. Um, and I think because it's almost like uh, you know, uh, what is it, paralysis through analysis. Sometimes we get so many choices in front of us, layer on that the grief, we can't make a decision to save our life. So um I think that was that was important to mention. So I'll make sure that's in the show notes. So last part is what I do is I end with these questions because this is what I'm doing this season. And so I end with uh one, two, three, four out of five, five questions. So they go something like this. So the first one was if you could go back, and I think I kind of know what you're gonna say, but if you could go back to your and see yourself in the early days of this grief trifecta you had, let's say six months after your husband passed, before you moved, or maybe right after you moved, what would you say to yourself about grief and loss if you could go back to you nine months, six months after your husband passed away?

Suzie 1:20:05

I'm enough. I that's what I had to I had to go through some stuff and figure it out because going from that protective Mediterranean dad to that protective Mediterranean, I mean I I liked being um the the captain woman. I did. I was built, you know, I that I loved that. That was cultural, that was how my grandma, you know, all all the all the things. Um but I've made it happen. My girls have performed in musicals, I performed in a musical. Um, it's not yes, you it's you have that uh dissonance of we're we're doing it or making it, you know, you know, I'm in the you know, a tap class and stuff like that. He should be there, he should be there, he should be there, that empty chair, that empty chair. It's you have that where this is so fun and it's cool to be in this place with all these people, he should be here. Yeah, that he should be here doesn't go away.

Matt 1:21:08

No, but I I you say telling yourself that you are enough, and I I think also right behind that is like you are strong enough, you're stronger than you can imagine, and just just watch what's gonna happen in you know two years or three years. Um but if your daughters ever happen to stumble and listen to this podcast for whatever reason, what would you want them to hear from you? Or what would you want them to hear?

Suzie 1:21:37

Mama's got grit. I like it. Their dad loves them so they're they never doubt how much daddy loved them.

Matt 1:21:46

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I like that. Well, actually, one of my first taglines for this podcast was grief, grit, and getting going again with life after the death of a lot of partners.

Suzie 1:21:55

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And um, they don't have to. I think I put it in in the the the notes as well. Is when I started turning the volume down on people that were like, Oh, why are you gonna buy it? You know, you're gonna start a business? You know, um, all of the all of the um the noise.

Matt 1:22:16

Yeah, the noise.

Suzie 1:22:17

Yeah, the nay the naysayers. Um, I've learned this, and I can't remember if it was which book it was, but as I've been building my business, we and I teach this to my kids today, right now. We are the equivalent of the top five people we spend the most of our time with.

Matt 1:22:34

True.

Suzie 1:22:35

So I've had to restructure and demote and promote and and um and and find that like recognizing like intrinsically, how do I feel after I've spent time with that person? How do I feel after they've they've commented or or or things like that? And they are they're people are not dispensable, but they are our order of operation.

Matt 1:23:02

Can we definitely choose which people get the most input into our lives for sure?

Suzie 1:23:09

It doesn't mean that um John Polo when he in his early stages of Greece sit down and shut up, or you either can you can either give a standing ovation or you can sit down and shut up.

Matt 1:23:20

Yeah, I like John Polo. Trying to get him on here. We'll we'll we've had some scheduling issues. I love it.

Suzie 1:23:24

He was in San Diego when I was there.

Matt 1:23:26

I love he's he's a good man, he's a good man. Um, so don't kiddos. If you hear this, don't forget that mama's got grit and your dad loved you. So uh the one of the follow-up questions is if your person, if Eric could say anything to you right now after your distance of death, what do you think Eric would say?

Suzie 1:23:46

Stop rescuing cats. Okay. Pick up those shoes. He always there's shoes everywhere. Oh, yeah. Um, but uh, well, you know, uh I don't know. Um, but uh he always said, I feel like I live in a sorority house. Oh, it's above and beyond a sorority house right now.

Matt 1:24:09

Oh, trust me. I as much as I would, I'm sure Marcy would say she's proud of me, she would have very choice words about the level of kempt or um kemptness of the house currently. That's the first thing to go. Yeah, I can't, I've I yeah, I don't know. I've uh maybe maybe other widows have a secret. I don't know.

Suzie 1:24:27

It is it is a I'm not, I would rather because I've I've had somebody be like, well, you should you should get a house. I'm like, no, I want to spend that money on memories with my kids. Yeah, or shoes.

Matt 1:24:38

But um, we can never have too many shoes, yeah.

Suzie 1:24:41

I'd have to unclutter before they can come clean.

Matt 1:24:44

That's yeah, my mom used to make us do that. We pick we my mom would have like a once-a-month cleanup person when we're growing up, and we'd all have to do these cleanup brigades before the and I'm like, why are we cleaning before the cleaning people come over? It makes no sense.

Suzie 1:24:55

Right. Um, I um hygienically, like I've told like these people that are, you know, my house is messy.

Matt 1:25:04

It's it's not unclean. It's messy, but it's not unclean. Yeah. Like you can eat off the counter. It's it's been cleaned, I promise. But it, you know, there's shoes everywhere and socks and half-done loads of laundry. So less cats and pick up the shoes. Um, if you could say something to Eric, what would you say to Eric?

Suzie 1:25:23

Just yeah, most gratitude.

Matt 1:25:26

Um, this has come up this week.

Suzie 1:25:29

Gratitude. The way he kept it together and the way he sucked it up when I was losing uh losing my parents and things like that, and how he just was the calm to my storm and the calm and um I I can't thank him enough for being my rock.

Matt 1:25:56

Yeah. I it's it's been interesting. It's the third time this has come up. I've had I've had a bevy of podcast interviews over the last well week, actually. But there's something there's there's there's something akin to right-sizing gratitude. So I think people get confused with like none of us are grateful that our person died. I want to be very clear about that. But there's something about reflecting back and having gratitude for what was and what brought us to now, and it's in in and there's a big power in writing it down too, which is a whole nother thing I'm gonna tackle a little later day. But gratitude is huge, and that's that's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Suzie 1:26:36

Um, and the last thing I share one thing, yeah, by all means before I because it's not we're not glad that they're gone, but there was a moment, it was like three years um where one of them was at ice skating, the other one was in a theater class, opposite sides of the city and stuff. And I would drop one off, pick one up, drop one up. Yeah, and my older daughter, so she would have been 10 at the time, she she said she's she's very calm, you know, introverted, and you know, doesn't miss it, you know, very silent, but doesn't miss anything. My other one's like loud and outspoken, kind of like me. Um, she goes, and I'm like, we made it, like like I got everyone everywhere, and like we didn't wreck and stuff like that. And she said, if daddy would have been alive, we wouldn't have made it all work. She wasn't saying she was glad that he was gone. She was stating the fact because we don't have a walker, we're not getting him in and L. We're not draining the pleurex, the the interesting, yeah.

Matt 1:27:42

Yeah, it's it it there we only know one reality, and it's really tricky with people who aren't in this type of grief to really understand the nuance around like this. I mean, I've I've said this probably a thousand times. My solo dad would not group would not exist if my wife hadn't passed away and any one of those men's wives are still alive. It would it just wouldn't be what it is. I wouldn't have the admin team I have. I wouldn't have and it's not that we wouldn't trade any of it for the world, but it's that recognition of like not only am I so grateful that we figured this out, but I'm also so grateful that the person I became with the person with my wife, Marcy, because that guy's able to do this. I'm not sure pre-Marcy Matt would have been able to handle all this. He was a different human. So I think that's super important. Um the very, very last question, I promise, is if a widowed parent is listening to this and they are in that atypical first year of grief, but again, there are no timelines. Um what would you what's one little tip, trick, advice you would recommend for them? If they're having a real hectic.

Suzie 1:28:57

It's okay. You don't have to do it all if all you did was eat and your cad, your kids ate. Brush your teeth, of course. But that there are no expectations, there are no survival is key. That's keeping yourself and the kids alive.

Matt 1:29:18

Yeah. Um yeah, I I didn't I didn't understand when people say give yourself space and grace early on in grief, and it took me over a year to figure out what that really meant, and that's part of it. It's it's not that you don't have no goals, no expectations, but you got to make them real low. I'm using your quotes, podcasts can't see, but you have to make it because like that's thing everything's different now, and you're not the same, and life won't be the same. Um, I hope you don't feel that your asset of time was wasted here today. And Susie, you are enough. Thank you for sharing your story with us and being one of the first solo moms on this podcast.

Suzie 1:29:56

Oh my gosh. I'm so delighted to be here and to get to know you better as well because I Facebook know you, but now you know me for real.

Matt 1:30:05

So I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.