Episode 1.7 Seven Widows & A Wedding

Matt and Ben catch up after attending a friend and fellow widows wedding. Listen as they talk about the feelings and emotions that come up with going to a wedding, watching a friend find love again, and so much more.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:21

Everybody, how's it going? Um, another episode of Solo Dead coming for you. Matt, how have you been?

Matt: 0:28

Uh well. Uh I brought back a little uh traveling tickle, but uh sinuses or whatever from being out in uh your neck of the woods. And uh, but we're doing good. Uh spring was here and then it left and it's supposed to come back again, but we're doing good. Um super excited about the topic we're gonna we're gonna talk about today for sure. Um just kind of settling into you know life in general right now, of like you know, things opening back up and what that means in the new normal ish and living again when so many of us, whether forced to or otherwise, were on pause for a bit. So looking forward to that. So doing well. How about yourself, man?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08

Same. Uh just got back from a little excursion, um, which was fantastic.

Matt: 1:14

I we could have talked about that too. That'd be a good one. Yeah, actually, you know what? Yeah, let's earmark that for another one. That'd be really good. I can talk about my thing that I did down in Phoenix and you talk about your thing. And sounds like a great idea.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28

Yeah, Kancuni. Um, it was the Cabo, Tas Cabo.

Matt: 1:32

Oh, you were in Cabo, that's right. Oh, excuse me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34

Yeah.

Matt: 1:40

Oh, I'm sorry, no, no.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43

Um, so I know I'm doing super good. Same type of thing. Like, we got back and was freezing rain nasty, but now the sun's back out again. And that's one of the things I love about where I live is the sun and getting able to actually go out there and play in it. And kids are getting ready to wrap up school, and it's been teacher appreciation week this week. And so like every day they'll do like we have this little thing here. Let me grab this pick because I leave it on the paper table so I for don't forget what it is. Like, we have a Monday um superhero shirt or dress like one, and then draw a picture for the staff. Then like Tuesday was um Tulip Tuesday. Thank you for always helping us to succeed. Dress to impress your nicest clothes and bring staff a flower or a plant. You can do it fresh or drawn or crafted or however you want to do it. And that was super cute seeing all the kids that morning walking around. Um then wacky Wednesday, um, crazy for Westerly Creek staff, wear your craziest socks and bring a funny picture or write a joke. And I love watching my kids try to like watching them try to figure out how to put a joke together is just fantastic. It's like one of those painfully fantastic things. Like, is this one daddy?

Matt: 3:00

Like, right, yeah, well, and the nice part is at their age, basically every joke can involve a fart. It's beautiful at that point. They're like, Why is your teacher funny?

SPEAKER_01: 3:10

Like it's our it's all that is perfect, and they try to like script it out and they're like knock knock, and they came back and they were so excited. Actually, they came back that day and they did the a knock-knock joke. Um, the interrupting cow knock-knock joke. Do you remember that one? Oh, yes. And they at the dinner table were just about pissing themselves, they were laughing so hard. They're like, Let's try interrupting orange, let's try interrupting dinner. Like each blast. Um, and then uh today was favorite hat or hair accessory and bring staff a snack, a treat, or a beverage. And so the kids got to pick out something to take for their kids.

Matt: 3:53

Um teachers have a bunch of alcohol in their buttons right now at that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 3:57

Like little mini bottles, like little shop bottles. Like, this is for my parents. Like, my daddy picked this out for whatever reason and said you'd really appreciate this more than what I was gonna give you.

Matt: 4:05

Then the apple juice, and the teachers, like, yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 4:07

Yes, thank you, yes. Thank you, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Um, so no, so it's going doing really good. Um, yeah, and like just there's just been a lot. I mean, like the wedding, the trips, the kind of kickover, the last month of school. Like there's just uh there's a bunch of stuff going.

Matt: 4:23

Real quick, just uh on on how did you how did you prep the kids for leaving?

SPEAKER_01: 4:33

Oh, um, so we told them uh would video with them every day.

Matt: 4:39

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01: 4:39

Yep. Um the touch point every day was key because like the last time I did like a like a just a super quick one, yeah. Um uh Nadia got very emotional about having the separation. Um, but this time with the video every single day, it was perfect. They got a chance to tell me some stories and kind of live it through and get to put their eyes on me. And I got and of course I love seeing them and doing all that. Um, but that for them versus a phone call or whatever, like doing that video where they could walk around and show me some stuff and interact was perfect.

Matt: 5:12

Yeah. When I was gone, my little just wanted all she wanted was proof alive. Like I'd get the text, like, hey, can we FaceTime? She really misses you. And so I'm like, Of course, absolutely. Let me finish my thing. I'll FaceTime when we're done. And so I'd FaceTime and she'd be like, Hi, Dad. And then that was it. I was she just like, Okay, he's alive, good.

SPEAKER_01: 5:25

Yeah, I was like, like it's got to be an interesting thing because Ryland did the same thing, right? He's just kind of like he was like doing those like one eyeball pictures on the camera.

Matt: 5:32

And then it's like, yeah, Blair would lick the phone. I'm like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03: 5:39

How do you taste sweetie?

Matt: 5:40

Yeah, how do you taste digitally, Dad? I'm like, oh hold on, Taylor. Um, so well, good, man. Yeah, and I think that you know it'll be it'll be great to talk about again the new normal-ish. I don't want to go down political stuff or whatever, but like just opening back up both physically and literally emotionally, or ill literally, literally, physically and metaphorically. Oh man, someone's gonna post edit it. Yeah, anyway, it's so um, but I think it's interesting, and a good segue into that is you know, um uh for those listening at home, uh Ben and I are actually real life friends. And so I was on a trip and it worked out where I was able to pop into uh Denver where another uh widow friend of ours was able to um have a wedding in in Denver. And so uh, which was amazing um to see life moving forward, uh to steal to steal uh again. I think it's Megan Devine, I should find the right person. Uh her, you know, to see life moving forward again. Um and can does not seem to be a nicer guy on the planet. His their speeches and stuff between her sisters and his brother and him. Oh my gosh. Oh, just it's so great, right? And just I mean, both laughter and singing and jokes and just nailed it. So um it was really great. And kind of going into a little pre, and I'll bounce it to you. There definitely a little bit, not so much. I think probably actually a little bit, a little combination of like, oh my goodness, this is gonna be the largest gathering I've been to probably in well over 18 months, not just because of COVID, just because of life and then timing of COVID. Like, there wasn't a lot of parties and stuff going on in my life with the move and everything like that. And so you go, like, whoa, so a little bit of like, what's how's this gonna be? Or are we gonna act normal? Are we gonna act new normal? Or are we all gonna be in those little hamster blow up bubbles walking around? Like, I don't, I don't know, I didn't know what to expect. So a little bit of that, and then on the emotional side, a little bit of I'd say bated breath anticipation of like, how hard is this gonna hit home? Because yeah, it's the second wedding I've been to. The first one was just inside of a year after Marcy died, and it was one of her really good friends. They got married down in Mexico. They did a very sweet, you know, recognition of those that couldn't be there, which was nice. And I think it was more because it was because I was surrounded by so many people I knew, and you know, the minute you know, they they paid homage, I think, yeah, as a family member too that wasn't there. You know, there's a little, you know, you're sitting next to my friends, my wife's friends too, and you get a little teary-eyed, but the wedding moved on. So it was it was okay. And then the focus goes right back to what it should, the ceremony, which was great. But I think it was so it was a a destination location, so or destination wedding that it was so like, oh, we're doing this thing at a resort. It was kind of blurry, right? So it was like a you know, it wasn't it wasn't just a wedding, it was a little more than that. So this one was like, Well, I'm only going here for one reason to to go to see somebody that I care about, and it's a friend of mine get married. And so there's a bit of uh yeah, intrepidation of how it hit emotionally, and and I'll bounce it to you right after this. I was I was doing great. I was like a little, you know, a little nervous, but everything was fine. Got into the the play, the the ceremony hall, and uh as the band started to play, one of the first songs they played, of course, was the song that my wife and I danced to at our wedding, our first dance, which is the Bob Dylan, but we did it to the Adele version of Make You Feel My Love. And I'm like, of course. Um, but what's interesting, right? I'm like, oh, right, like but what's interesting, I'm just gonna pick a random time, 12 months prior to that wedding, I probably would have been a lot more emotionally sad, but I have found that that song, because of I think time and distance and the reverence for that moment that it was for us, it's now a more warming feeling to hear that song than sad. There's still some sadness for sure, but it's more like, oh man, yeah, we took those dance lessons and you know, she looked amazing and we pulled it off. And I didn't drop her when we did the dip. It was great, right? And it's it's not again. I'm just picking a random time. A year ago, I would have been like, you know, I'm more sad that my wife's not here, and how dare they play that song? Like, that is our song, sir. So, what was your kind of pre leading into uh going?

SPEAKER_01: 10:22

Yeah, so I it was much like you was uh not only this biggest group, I wasn't sure what to expect, especially when we walked in there. I saw the people's like, uh social interaction. Oh my gosh. How do we do this again?

Matt: 10:34

Do we shake feet? I don't know what do we elbow hands, or like just a jump.

SPEAKER_01: 10:39

Was that like demolition man? Do we just like wave at each other? Like it was just and it was I don't know. So that side of it was interesting. I didn't know what to expect there, but like going into it, um much like I had a wedding previously, so this is but like it was also a wedding that I almost didn't get invited to for a family member because they were afraid there was too much love in the air for me be to be able to handle.

Matt: 11:04

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01: 11:05

Yeah, yeah. And so um it was like an afterthought because it got slipped that they were having a wedding. So I came into that wedding with a different attitude of like, oh, I'm gonna show them that I can handle seeing love and I'm gonna be happy and gonna hang with the kids and it's gonna be just fine. So I I came in with a different attitude to that one than Tessa was much more recent. So like when we say Hunt, I was in a different headspace.

Matt: 11:29

Yeah, but that was inside of the year, wasn't it? That was the one out here, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:32

It was inside of the year, yeah, yep. Um yeah, like seven-ish months. Yeah, um, so like this one, it's friends, like you said, sole purpose of a wedding. Um, and it was the thing too, is like it kind of I said it was uh the our a group of widows and widowers that were tied together that was the kind of the first one for the wedding. Yep, and so um I was kind of looking at it like, well, and then like my girlfriend just she hit it on the head. She goes, What can I expect at the wedding? And I was like, Well, um the idea is we're all like we're there to support, love, cherish, see the hap the union and everything. But like, but at the same time, like you're looking at a group of widow and widowers that may or may not get triggered because it is a wedding. First one for all of us going back into this kind of thing. Like it's it's the and it's like so, like the idea is this, but once we get into it and the emotions start flowing, I can't guarantee it's not gonna be something else, right? And and and just kind of having yeah, just kind of an acknowledgement of going this may be a wave, we're going into happy, loving, and it won't that's nothing that won't change happy and loving, but will there possibly be some tears? Possibly. Will there be some general sadness? Possibly, but I don't know what to expect because it's because much like some of the stuff you don't like, those little triggers that pop in and out of your life, yep, that cause you to all of a sudden like have you hear a song in the grocery store parking lot and you start crying in the grocery store parking, like, well, I was gonna go in and get milk, and now I'm having a scene doing my ugly cry, and and like wasn't expecting that. So it's like, and especially with something like a wedding, which is once again, like all of us are widowed because we lost our spouse. I mean, like it's it's it's a it's a big deal. So um, I don't know, it was it was that kind of in my head was like, well, yes, happiness, but be open to all sorts of emotional possibilities.

Matt: 13:37

Right. Well, you know what's interesting is um that uh on the what to expect part is also I was gonna say our group handles, and I think this is why we're so connected. I think we handle our grief with probably a little more frank honesty than than maybe the general population would, like to the right of the old curve, if you will. Um and so kind of you know, jokingly is you know what happened out on the the patio, not that thing, the other thing, where the where the person comes up, oh you guys are thinking about doing a podcast. What's it about? We're like, okay, we're gonna bring this thing way down. Um, well, all of us sitting here all lost uh our you know, all have had a spouse die within the last three to four years, and she's just the poor, you know, poor random wedding attendees, like, oh, like oh that's how we all know each other is from the wife's or the the bride, sorry, the bride's first husband died. And so it's kind of a weird, thank goodness we were at one table, that'd be a super awkward intro if you'd put us in different tables spread throughout the entire you know, and I I actually joked around with myself internally. I'm like, oh, I should come up with a different backstory, like, oh well, I was the PI that she hired to make sure this guy was legit or something like you know, just something completely random, right? Like, because like it's a bit of a truth bomb if you're not if you're not ready for it, right? And so, um, but I think that's a that's a great kind of like what to expect. And I would say we should probably poll the group at some point, but I'd say generally speaking, and I think I did ask, especially some of our female friends, I asked them, you know, what did you think about the ceremony specifically? And since it's I think for all of us, uh it was the first wedding, obviously post-COVID, but obviously, you know, like I mentioned the one I went to kind of relatively soonish, you did too, probably with enough time to really kind of have it sink in. And you know, we have everybody from like, yeah, I wasn't married that long, you were married for a while. We have uh an elder statesman uh in our group that was married for 30, 40 years. Uh, I think that seems about right. And so she hadn't done those vows and for you know a long time. But I think all of us sitting there, there was I there was a resounding theme of like this serious um the reverence of the words used in the ceremony, I think rang really true. And you just kind of go like, wow, the last time I uttered those phrases to somebody, it did not go the way I expected, right? And so it kind of took that's what I took like during the ceremony part where I was like, Oh man, I remember when you know, uh we said that part, whatever. You know, you don't want to jump to death to us part, but too late now. I already said it. So you kind of go, like, yeah, and I and I really and I did, and I do really mean it, right? And it's uh, you know, you you know, honor and cherish. Yeah, absolutely. And so you kind of go, and then with our situations going like, wow, I said that and I really meant it. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I think that was kind of what I got from some of our our female friends, where they were, you know, kind of going like, what was causing them some emotions was like, wow, when I said that, it was in a ceremony that I was super happy about, and I was, you know, it was a good thing, and I'm glad I did it. But I definitely, as I joke all the time about, like, I don't think anyone goes up to their own wedding going, like, boy, I can't wait till we're divorced in seven years. Like, um, so when you say those words, you mean them, they're from the heart, whether you write your own or it's a Christian or or another religious ceremony, you you mean it. And so then watching it repeated again post-it ending the way our collectively marriages ended was that I think that was on the ceremony part, those were I don't want to say triggered, I was just like there was again a reverence and a heaviness to the words that were being said for me personally, and I think that was kind of the gist I got from someone. I was like, Oh, were you okay? And they're like, Oh, it's just it's been a long time and it really means something. And you know, that was kind of the gist I got. So I and I didn't I didn't see anybody full on lose it, did you? I don't, I mean no, no, no, I said I got a little teary-eyed, and it was I will say I mean our friend we'll just we'll name her Emily, that is her name. I mean, when she came down the aisle, she looked fantastic and yeah, could not have had a better smile on her face and could not have been she looked amazing, right? More happy for her for sure, knowing that just a short while ago, right, we were all, you know, uh reminiscing of uh, you know, the loss of her of her first husband. And so to see stealing life moving forward, you know, for somebody that you know the loss they've been through is it was really was really I don't know what satisfying. I don't go with that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:27

Fulfilling that was incredibly touching, yeah, and fulfilling. And I think that that part of it hit me personally more than some of like then just kind of like hearing the vibes because like you know, you've been to a ton of weddings and and and so they're all kind of the same same same type of thing, but like seeing her go through the journey and know the stories and have been friends through all of it, and then seeing her just like I said, she was just like she was glowing happy, walking down the aisle, ready to like just going, I am super excited and here, and then to watch her new family be all like incredibly welcoming and happy, and like and have the families working together on it's like just just the scene and the emotions involved of that newness, that reconnecting um was just I know it was incredibly touching for me personally, like just that side and like it actually hit that. Like I said, but the other weddings, like uh, you're married, your girlfriend, whatever, like congrats, bro. Like, whatever. Like this one was this one for me, like I don't know if it's just because I've you know, through the trauma thing that you're just more kind of I'm emotionally aware, a raw on some of these things, but I don't know if that played into it or not. Um, but definitely I could see I could appreciate all of that more on this one. Yeah, and that was pretty spectacular.

Matt: 20:02

Yeah. And it's just, you know, it's um it it hope is definitely something that came in. Um, I guess it's and sat sad satisfying. I'm just like, wow, like this is someone that I'll just I'll pick the, I think I have the time right about two years ago, you know, we're all in Breckenridge and again referencing that, you know, little quick getaway trip that we all did back in November of 2019. Um I had to do COVID math real quick. Um, and so how many months prior to COVID did we um and going like here we are reminiscing, you know, having emotional conversations around the loss of someone we love, and then fat fast forward into how happy she is now in moving again, I you know, breeding the forward, moving forward with living again, which is something that you know is not easy to do. And I am sure that, and she's been warned that I will we will have them on our show at some point. Yeah, um, that you know, although you're moving forward, and it's this thing of, and we were talking about prior to to to recording was this this idea of like normally in life you're happy or you're sad, but I think grief has a way of making you have the ability to be sad, happy, and happy, sad, right? And and in recognizing that that that's okay, that it's okay to be 96% happy in a moment and 4% sad. It that's a thing that grief I think taps into if you're being honest with yourself, because if you're not, I think you're doing a disservice to your grief and to the person that you've that that died that you've lost. And I don't think that that's a healthy way either. So um, I yeah, I thought I thought the ceremony, everything was great. Um, like I said, the song really again, like I said, it probably would have hit me harder, but I was it was nice to hear. And I think actually during at some point I bumped into one of the band members and I was and I didn't tell them about my late wife. I just was like, Yeah, that that's a great cover of a song from Bob Dylan, and you know, Dell does and a couple other people was like, Yeah, it's a really great wedding song. I mean, yeah, we we danced to it, and I just like you know, I didn't want to ruin the band guys. And by the way, um, so that's kind of that was kind of nice. Um, I think the other thing that was interesting was I mentioned it briefly, like when people would ask, like, how you're connected, right? And it's a weird, like it's one of those instant read the room, how far do you really want to go with this? Like, you just say, I know the bride, right? And then if they press you, like, you know, maybe again you lie, just be like, Well, I was her PI to figure out if her new husband was really who he says, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 22:41

Like, yeah, friend of the bride. How I'm just a space, I'm just a group.

Matt: 22:45

I'm just one of those like professional seat fillers. They just didn't want an empty table, so I'm here.

SPEAKER_01: 22:51

Especially in COVID.

Matt: 22:53

Very COVID. Um, so I thought that was good. Um, what about for did it bring up any like for me? I guess it solidified. I hadn't really thought about it because I'm not I'm not actively dating anybody at the time or currently, or even back then, way back when at that wedding, just two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01: 23:15

Fiance frown on that.

Matt: 23:17

Yeah, they do, they really do. Um, that uh I I guess I hadn't really thought about it much because I it's not something that's there yet. But I also definitely could with seeing that happen, definitely can see how one can get married again if that's their choice, for sure. Like, yeah, that it was nice to I'll put it this way. It was nice to see that then rather, and again, God bless our friend Emily for being the first in our group to do so. Like that had to be a little nerve-wracking. Like, you know, I I would have, you know, I would have it, I would have, it would have been interesting to be like, okay, here I go. And hey, everybody, I hope I don't mess this up, right? Like, I'm gonna go get married again, and all my widow friends are like, what? Like, so I'm good for her. Not that we said what, I mean, we're happy for her, but it was kind of nice to see someone do it, I guess, right? It's like kind of the fruit, you're like, that's maybe it's not possible. I don't know. Oh nope, someone did it, and someone else in our group is currently engaged as well, and so someone's gonna do it again, which is yeah, awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 24:17

So just like and having just like verbalizing something or writing it down, putting it out there in the universe, making it real. Yep, seeing her get married made it real. And like she's like, this is a thing, this is possible, this is doable. So, like once again, just kind of that concrete react reality of yes, this is it, um, was nice. Yeah, like so. Yeah, it was really good. I had I had a fantastic evening, yeah. Um, and it was, and it was just like, and it was great too, because like I hadn't seen anybody from our group since the deal because of COVID. And yeah, and then we were one time in April.

Matt: 24:54

Um, we were set, I think what were we the seven of the nine, I think, because uh two couldn't make it one because they couldn't make it.

SPEAKER_01: 25:02

Yeah, yeah. Well, you like and Alabama's kind of its own country.

Matt: 25:05

No, love you, Molly.

SPEAKER_01: 25:08

Yeah, she couldn't make it up, yeah. Love you. Um, but like, yeah, the Canadian border was no go.

Matt: 25:13

Right. Um yeah, so it's just but you know, it was good, it was really good because it was like an instant, and the other thing I'll say is it was so wonderful to see everybody, also because everyone had a story of in their own way of moving forward, which was great, even in even in the hot mess of COVID. I mean, yeah, so many great life events had happened since the last time we were all in the same room together. And yeah, we catch up here and there, but it was really good to like face to face and see smiles on people's faces of, you know, oh, I did this thing and it made me really happy, or I spent time with, you know, my new grandchild, or you know, my daughter went to the college. And it was just good to be like, yes, you, you know, again, you know, you're you're living again, and life is moving forward, even with reverence to the people we lost, which is which is really it's it's nice because I I hear this a lot from people who are early on in grief that I that I talk to, is that they feel extremely alone in the sense of like no one else is going through what they're going through, which there's some nuances to that, and that's true. Yeah, but it's more like you said, like speaking in the universe and seeing it, right? And so when I shared the picture of the wedding group from left to right, and I'm gonna make this all up, but right, so in the middle is the bride and the groom, obviously, who got married, and then you go left to right, like you know, this person is three and a half years out, tried dating is still trying to find their way. Uh, this person is now actively seeing someone special. That couple is actually engaged. These people are now in a relationship. That person's new person is sick at home, so they couldn't make the wedding. But like, and to be able to say, look, like, although the picture doesn't represent it, the only way the people in this picture are connected is because we've all lost our spouse, our spouse died. And to be able to put a little tagline, like in those old 80 movies, right? When they flashed, like, what are they doing now? It's like, no, they're moving forward with life with reference to their person and living and trying to find as much happiness as they can post losing their people. And I think it's a good thing to show other people who are early on to go, like, yeah, you're not gonna do it tomorrow, you're not gonna do it in two weeks. But at some point, you will slowly start to live again in a in a in a new way that you never would have expected. And I think it's good to show people, which was which was good, even good for me to go, like, yeah, look at all these, all these people that we were instantly connected through loss, and all of them are are all moving forward, myself included, you know, with life and trying to figure it out and what works best for me and what works best for them and their trials and errors, right? Of like, well, I you know, thought I was dating this one person. It turns out they were really not who they say they were, and I think I just missed my person. And then I recalibrate and go on another date and go like, oh, this person is really who I think I could get along with, which is part of it too. It's is, you know, and we talk about it as well, which is you're different now, host loss. So the dating criteria changes. Yeah. Questions and the things, the questions you ask and the things you need should be different, right? Because you're a different person. So it's good to good to see that journey in a microcosm of a picture to go, like, look, these every one of us is moving forward with living in our own pace in our own way.

SPEAKER_01: 28:35

And I find too, like with you were when you were mentioned that like reaching out, seeing there's somebody else out there. That's the thing about like loss, and like the the people don't talk about it enough. And like it is everywhere, like no matter like everyone has experienced, especially in the the where we are in their 40s-ish, like at this point, loss of parents, loss of grandparents, let alone loss of like someone at this point in their life, unless they're exceptionally fortunate, has experienced some sort of loss in their life. And so it gives you some sort of view or appreciation or something in that kind of realm. And so as long as you like create that dialogue and have something, and that's one of the things I love about this podcast, is the fact that we're talking about it and we're getting it out there. So those people that have that like direct widow, widow, or loss can get it. But then they also realize if they're talking to other people, don't be afraid to bring it up, don't be ashamed to bring it up. It's real, it's life. And so many other people have had instances of loss of like you lost your dad. I mean, like all these things, like throughout their life and throughout people's lives, loss happens. And so don't be afraid to bring that up and and and talk to somebody about it and use that as a like a groundbreaking with someone because like you'd be surprised at emotional connection you can make from somebody that would not normally bring it up because it would be like, Well, that was just something that happened to me. And to be able to go, well, I've lost and you've lost. So we can kind of at least, and like you can't do that grief comparison because like you said, nobody wins in the grief game. Um, but like you can at least go loss was there, yeah, grief was there, and we've like continued to go, continue to live, and we can piece something together with it. Right.

Matt: 30:31

And so I think the other, like you said, the the kind of the icebreaker, not it kind of not that you want to lead with that necessarily, but but maybe you do. I mean, it's a good way to find out major has you know, someone's intestinal fortitude, real quick, like geez, that was a lot to take in. Um but I someone shared this with me one time, which is like sharing stories or bits of the people who have died who we have lost, is a great way for them to continue on outside of ourselves. That we don't have to be the only story keepers of our person, right? And sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's really hard to share that. But like, you know, it was just uh Cinco de Mayo not that many days ago, as in like one. And so as I don't look at my calendar because I have no idea what day it is anymore, and so as I see the Cinco de Mayo things, I let some of my newer friends or people that I my new neighbors, whatever, it's like, oh, we didn't do much because we were kind of busy doing some other stuff. But I said, you know what? They're like out of margaritas. Like, you know, Marcy, my my late wife, loved a good margarita and good Mexican food. So, yeah, I kind of that you know, there's a ton of stories around finding the right margarita and finding a great Mexican restaurant, but it's uh those little things where you're like, you know, I don't have to keep that, you know, in the past tense and like lock it away. There's no reason. And someone else does a very good talk about we can so easily, and I love how she does this, and I need to find out the exact author of it, and I'm pretty sure it's Megan Devine, but every time I say it, I'm gonna think it's wrong, that we slip into the present tense of our people when we talk about them because they are still with us, right? In a sense, and so saying like Marcy liked or Marcy likes is the same, but bringing it forward is a way to share our loss of a person to other people and then allow them to kind of take that off in the in the universe that they want, and vice versa, right? Like when someone, you know, you're like, tell me about your person, tell me about Gwen, tell me about, you know, um uh uh Brandon, tell me about, you know, or Brady. Sorry, tell me about Brady, you know, tell me about all these people, you know, tell me about Chris, tell me about Andrew or whatever in our in our tight knit group or even further down into other cancer groups that I'm in, because part of it is like, you know, you want to know their person, but you also want to pay reverence to them. They they were here, you know, just because there's a end date on a tombstone doesn't mean that their uh influences stop on that day, with or without having children on the planet. They still touch people's lives, they did things. So I think, like you said, when you open with that, you know, obviously a lot of people, I'm so sorry for your loss. And you're like, thanks. And like on my trip prior to coming to Denver, it was really great a couple of times, like just organically in conversation. I'd slip into like, oh, well, this is what someone would mention something. I'm like, Oh, my wife did this or my wife did that. And they're like, and they knew my situation, they're like, Oh, okay, yeah, like why would I not bring it up? Right, it's it's not, you know, I don't go into my dead wife, right? Like you, you kind of share it with them, both for the emotional connection, but also to let them know that, like, you know, it's so it's uh it's okay to talk about your person because they impacted you and others, and I think that's that's important to to share that. And like you said, in losses everywhere. People, you know, and I think people do a huge disservice of uh bottling that up and not openly sharing at times because I think it it's I think it can fester. I think it and it can also yeah, and it feels to me like you can get stuck um by not allowing it to be talked about, right? Like it's yeah, and you have to read the room and everybody's gonna cry then maybe you don't bring it up, but maybe you do you just have a good cry session, put the Kleenex in the middle of the coffee table and go with it.

SPEAKER_01: 34:19

Exactly. This is gonna be a thing now, guys. We're gonna go get the waterworks ready.

Matt: 34:22

Why are you a member of Coffee to Hydrate Kleenex? I just go for the volume of Kleenex. That's all we buy. We just buy pallets and pilots of Kleenex because we cry a lot. Um, so yeah, I think the wedding was great. Um, I think it was wonderful to see everybody. I was the other thing, and I'll be curious to hear your feedback on this was how many people your person included volunteered, like, oh you you you I want to be interviewed. Like, I want to talk about dating a widow or widower. Oh, you're gonna have us on the show, right? I'm like, oh lord, like uh oh that could be that could be bad. Like, you know, yeah, our friend Nick, Wendy, she was like, Oh, yes, let's do this. I'm like, I'm looking at Nick, like, are you are you are you sure about this? Like, this could be this gets super awkward, yeah. But I think it's amazing because, and those are just two who have another um Josh, right? Is it Josh? Yeah, Amanda's Josh, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Half a second, it was a Jeff in my mind. I'm like, that didn't feel right at all. Sorry, Josh. Um, but same thing where it's like, I think that the new people or new uh significant others want to share a little bit of the journey of how to date a widow or widower, because there's some there's some nuances, but I think as we've talked about in the past, there's something pretty great about being with a widow or widower because they've kind of done it before and it and then probably did it well, right? And so there's there's um I think some ups, not only it sounds so bad, but some upside and how to navigate that though, when loss is in the relationship, it's gonna be part of it, and how each individual person in relationships decides again, back to the paying reverence on how to navigate that, which I was kind of because I was a little shy about like, well, at some point maybe, and they're like, Oh no, yeah, we're ready, we can talk. And I'm like, Oh boy, oh okay, be the gym button. Well, let's do it right now. And I'm like, Oh, thank goodness we're gonna bring the microphones. Hot mess. Come in hot. But going back to what you were saying, how people want to talk about it, which I think is great.

SPEAKER_01: 36:36

Yeah, yep. And yeah, it's just I it'd be nice to get both sides of it too, because we kind of get stuck in our own, like no matter what you're doing, you get stuck in your own little in universe. It doesn't matter, grief, happiness, job, work, hobbies, like social media, it doesn't matter where you are, you kind of get this little globe that you're kind of stuck in. And it's nice to kind of go, here's a different perspective, here's what I saw. And like to get that opposite side, I think it would be I think it'd be really good to hear for like for everyone out there, just because you're like, because you see these people that are like, I've tried dating, I hate it, there's nobody out there for me. Well, like, and they just kind of get this because it can be like it can be just miserable at times, like for sure. And and to kind of see the but like kind of have them go, there are people out there that can appreciate that grief and can accept it into their life and and support and run with it. And to kind of hear them and and experience like their side of the journey, I think would be super slick.

Matt: 37:35

Yeah, I agree. Well, and even you know, obviously all the way to the culmination of of the people who got married. I mean, I it's like, you know, how you know how what foundation did you lay at the beginning of this with the fact that one of you had lost a partner in in what was uh you know, what was what was unique about it, what was like same same. You're like, yeah, it's the same. We all have history, that's true. Some people's history seems to be more emotional, others it's just a history. And so, like, how do you handle that? And you know, and for specific people, what is or is not on or off limits and things like that. And like, how do you, and like you said, it can be really daunting, especially again, if you're being honest with your grief, if you're gonna just ball it up and try to wedge it down and just be like, No, I'm fine. You're like, Well, eventually, and I've said this a billion times, even in like this podcast right now, that grief finds a way to permeate through every it'll get talked about whether you like it or not. You could remarry and be married 10 years, and all of a sudden you're balling on the couch, and your new spouse is like, What's going on? It's like, well, I haven't dealt with my grief for 12 years. So that well, that probably was a not the most healthy thing to do. So at some point it permeates through because it impacts us, it changes us if you're being honest with it. You can try to lie your way through it, which I don't think is the most healthy thing to do. Um, so yeah, it was I overall, I I mean, uh, I I would I would give the wedding experience a 9.9 out of 10. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 39:07

Two thumbs up, gold stars. Highly recommend.

Matt: 39:12

The yelp review is as uh no, it was it was good, and so I look forward to hopefully uh continuing to see other people uh move forward with their lives and living again because it's it's nice and it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00: 39:30

And uh I think most of us would agree at this stage of our lives, and I would imagine even at either side, whether you're younger or older, that you don't want to do the rest of it alone, and so you gotta you gotta make a foyer into not being alone, which is yeah, typical, but as our friends have proved, and right it can be done, but it's doable, yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Matt: 39:58

Um, so I think. we're pretty much right up where we should be with time. Um I think this was really good. I I like talking about our friends doing well. And I'm not bitter about it at all. I love it. No, it's it's all good. It's fantastic. So yeah, I think we're right up at the end. Anything else you want to bring up?

SPEAKER_01: 40:24

Anything else that you feel like no right now like there's some stuff I've been kind of pondering um but we can do that one later for sure. But yeah I mean yeah the wedding the wedding was a solid success and a good experience and um glad it happened. I'm super glad that it happened.

Matt: 40:43

Yeah I'll end I'll end the recording with uh a big thanks to Brian and Emily for inviting a bunch of widows to sit at their wedding and you should thanks for putting us in the back of the room yeah yeah and you should have just mic's up because there were some great conversations happening that would have been great uh feed for a wedding video later down the road. So we love you guys thanks for having us fantastic. Yeah, I think that's a good one.