The Solo Dad Podcast

Episode 1.11 Widower Weds Meet Adam - Solo Dad of 3 Young Daughters, Breast Cancer widower

• Solo Dad • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Widow Wednesday - Meet Adam, young father of 3 daughters, made a widower after his wife journey with breast cancer come to an end. He shares is long relationship with loss in his life, early struggles with addiction, all preparing him for the most difficult journey yet. Finding support and community is ways he never imagined.

Follow Adam on Tiktok at  BeEazyVegito https://www.tiktok.com/@beeazyvegito?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

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Beverages
Matt is sipping coffee
Adam is enjoying Chai Tea

Resources
Is Green Tea Healthy -  https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-green-tea

The Dad Commercial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LLv0-thByw

It's Ok not to be OK - https://www.amazon.com/dp/1622039076?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-mac00-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-feature-scomp&ref=aa_scomp_srsr2

Refuge in Grief - https://refugeingrief.com/

You are a Bad Ass - https://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Badass%C2%AE-Doubting-Greatness/dp/0762447699

The Highly Sensitive People - https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B084VVBTTS?_encoding=UTF8&node=283155&offset=0&pageSize=12&searchAlias=stripbooks&sort=author-sidecar-rank&page=1&langFilter=default#formatSelectorHeader


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Matt:

Welcome to another episode of the Solo Dad podcast. This is one of your co-hosts, Matt, and I'm joined by another brother in grief, Adam. Adam, how are you doing today, bud? I'm good, man. How about yourself? Oh, hanging in there. It's a day conversation. So uh then we don't judge anyone for what time they drink, but I'm having my second cup of coffee this morning. And Adam, I think you're partaking in what exactly?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm having myself a big old glass of chai tea. I I I enjoy the chai tea quite a bit.

Matt:

Delicious. Well, and you know the other one that we were just saying right off air. I was like, the other one, and I'm sure hopefully some of our people listening, maybe they maybe they can do a shout out on like uh on Instagram or on the Facebook group. Like, I've heard nothing but good things about green tea. And like if you can drink that often, it's supposed to help you with all sorts of magical stuff. I'm not promoting, nor am I a doctor. I'm just saying I've heard good things about green tea. Um, well, Adam, I know we're both solo dads, and we both are trying to squeeze in time. You and I um have connected through loss on Facebook, and you're part of the solo dad Facebook group. So I appreciate that. Um, and you volunteered your time. And so I know you've got your three littles probably in different areas of being cared for right now. And I just gave mine to Amex and set her on an Uber. I'm kidding. She's she's in free K right now. Um, and so we have a window to have a conversation about where you're at in your grief journey. I want to make sure I preface that, you know, all the um the normal things are in place here, right? Like uh, you know, it's it's sad, it's tragic. We want to share your story. Um, and you wanted to share your story because how you arrived into grief has some different nuances to it that I think are really good to share. And just you also, and sadly, but also this is part of what's gonna happen with the solo dad is we're gonna have people like myself that are nearly three years out. Um, eventually we'll have my good friend Bill on, who's over a decade out. And then always, unfortunately, someone new to the group, whether timing-wise or whatnot, but post-grief or post-loss, I should say, and new to the grief. And you're about four months. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh she passed away May 1st of this last year.

Matt:

So your perspective, and I want people to be able to hear this, is that your perspective is going to be definitely more fresh, more raw, probably a lot a little less reflective and more almost reactive, where Ben and I talk more kind of in a reflective way because it's what we've been through and still going through, but you are literally in the fresh of it. So I know I I know you've got the three girls and your wife, Katie. Go ahead and share with us your story with Katie and and we'll just go from there, bud.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I uh I was lucky enough to meet um her very early on. Uh I was fresh out of high school. I worked at a grocery store, and she was uh a beggar, and I was the cart boys. So I met her very early on, and uh we connected fairly quick. So overall, from beginning to end, it was about 14 and a half years we were together, and we had two beautiful children. We were both extremely happy. Um, and then um I remember like it was yesterday. We she went to go take a shower. She came downstairs and she was uh honey, I think there's I feel a lump or something. And me being the prototypical funny guy, it's uh all right, I get a free chance to squeeze. All right, let's do this thing. So I I'm like, all right, so I checked it out. I'm like, no, you're right. That is that is pretty firm. Like it might be a black duck because she was pregnant at the time with our third child.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01:

I said it might be a black duck, maybe, or something. Uh well, you know, why don't we go get it checked out and we'll go from there? So we went in. Unfortunately, this happened to be just really fortunate, but she was diagnosed with breast cancer on her birthday. Oh man, yeah, so it was a little unfortunate timing with that. Um, and so they they it was a stage three at that point, and it was hormonal-based cancer, and they decided to start treatment as soon as possible while pregnant. So they gave uh my wife Katie 12 rounds of chemo while pregnant, gave her 12 rounds of chemo while pregnant, and then gave her a week off to give birth, and then eight rounds after birth to try to kick the rest of it. Now she had a massectomy done to make sure that uh all of that was gone, and they said they got rid of most of it, which was good. She went to remission for almost about a year, and then after that, um, she wasn't feeling the greatest. She had a hysterectomy done and she had reconstructive surgery done because she wasn't feeling like she was a beautiful woman at this point anymore because of the process of everything that she's been going through, she just wanted some normalcy back in her life. So we decided to go the route of doing reconstruction surgery. During the reconstruction, um, her doctor had mentioned that uh her area seemed to be um pretty tender and that at the uh I can't remember the name, the lymph nodes. Sorry, the lymph nodes. Lymph nodes uh were very so we uh then got that checked out, and sure enough, we went to the doctors and they said, Well, we don't just give scans just for the sake of scans, we'll check you in about a month. Month later, find out that the cancer had then spread to the liver, and then it was stage four at that point. Yeah, so um it was just another, unfortunately, another hit to the life that we were having at that point. So it was about three years of just battling and just doing the best we could. We exhausted all of our resources here locally. We went to I'm from Wisconsin, so we went to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, we went to Chicago for the Cancer Center Treatments in America down there, we went to Milwaukee. We ended up finishing our stint in Zion, Illinois, at the Cancer Center of America, and they took very good care of her and tried some experimental things that seemed to have worked. Um, but unfortunately, um things kind of took a turn and um she had passed away May 1st.

Matt:

Oh man. Just real quick, when while she was in remission, was it literally just gonna be like uh annual scans or whatever? Was it just that sort of maintenance or whatever? Yeah, yeah. So she was plain, she was clear, clear then.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, so when when they did the when they did the massectomy and everything like that, and they checked everything, everything was clear. They said that some of the lymph nodes had small amounts, so they had her on a sole form of a chemo to help keep that regulated.

Matt:

Yeah, maintenance or whatever they call it, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01:

And then uh during that that period, that's when uh we had the ability to take the family's um a family vacation that we haven't had a chance to do in a few years, because she's battling all this. So we went to uh Florida, went to Disney and Universal Studios. It was a very good year for us, and we had that chance to really bond and be together.

Matt:

You know what's interesting is like there's so many times when I hear other people's cancer journeys, right, with their spouse or loved one. There seems to be this respite of both when like uh whether it's taking a break from chemo or there's there's a period when you go back and looking in whether it's a year or it's 30 days or 60 days or what there's a point when you go like that was really good. And then usually because I'm talking to these people because things don't end as as we would like, that uh it comes, I don't want to say raging back, but it was like that was that's that was the last good time. And what's interesting, one of the things I said in my video on Facebook right after my wife died, um like a day or two after, I just was an easy way to tell people what had happened. And when I went off the script, once I said what I needed to say, one of the things I found myself saying was like, I just thought we had more time. And it's interesting because you look back and you're like, well, you in the moment you didn't realize you got it. And and I'm not I'm not trying to believe how much of it is right or wrong, like how much is enough? There's never gonna be enough. But it's just interesting that so many times it's like we did the same thing. We took a trip to Aruba, we went to Florida, we did a bunch of stuff because she was feeling good and it was it was uh we were up for it, but it is and then you look back and you go, like, oh, we like I it was like terrible. A lot of times you don't realize the last one was the last one, the last Christmas, last birthday, last whatever. And there are so many times from the outsider looking in when you're watching someone's cancer journey, you're like, Oh, this might be it. You don't know because one year could turn into two. I've I've had I've had conversations with people whose spouses had stage four colorectal cancer for like six years, and you're like that sounds like a marathon of just ups and downs and goods and bads. And you're like, oh, and my wife was inside of a year. Yours was kind of in the middle there, which is still uh the exhaustion level like is just relentless. And I only was a caregiver of a cancer patient for a year. I can't imagine all the, you know, the extra, it's it's like the difference between, I don't know, maybe running a 5K versus a marathon. I don't know, right? It's just hard. So how what did you find? So, real quick, and again, I'm so sorry, right? How did the how let's stay with the older ones? How did the older two handle mom's cancer journey? Because much like your youngest, my youngest has very little memories, and if they do, they only know mom is sick. So what what what was that kind of transition for the older ones like? How did you handle that? Was there any resources you found available while you're going through it? And then maybe after loss, it what's been going on with the old, let's stay focused on the little two, then we talk about the younger one.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So my middle daughter is 11, my oldest is 13 in October. And um, they they did very well taking care of mom when I was at work, things like that. And um, obviously they'd have school, stuff like that. And uh my wife would stay home with the little one, and while she was battling all this stuff, she still found time to do housework and clean and pay the bills and to battle all that stuff and still be a mom on top of that. Like I'm still blown away by how much she was able to do. But with that being said, the girls when they come home from school, it was a lot like myself. It was caretaker boy. It was what can I do to help mom? What can I do to make it easier for mom? My 11-year-old, she is um she's a great girl, but she's got her head in the clouds 90% of the case. So for her, it was I could tell that for her, it was more of a mental block for her to see her mom that way. And she wanted to just treat mom the way she wanted to be treated, just as her mom, nothing else. So that's what she provided for her on a regular basis, just goofy little moments, laughs, full of smiles, and she was worried, obviously. Um, but she did her best to make sure that mom didn't see that all that often.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

The oldest, um, she she likes to be treated as an adult. She is in that teenage stage where she wants to be treated like an adult, talk like an adult. And we've always had me and my wife has always had an um open conversation with my oldest daughter. We've been very upfront and honest about everything. And if we got news good or bad, we were very honest with her about the situation. And I give that girl a lot of credit because she has uh uh she had a lot to carry. She's got some strong shoulders. She took care of her younger sister and her little one as well, on top of all that at the same time.

Matt:

I think one thing to in your supporting this is I I think is we as adults, there's so many things that we as adults we've brought forward from our lives. Like this is hard, this is difficult, this is whatever, this is tragic. Because we we also understand life is uh deeper, but like I would say more often than not, the kids are way more resilient than we give them credit for. Oh, absolutely. Especially handling it with honesty. I feel like with my oldest, I I edited what I told her just because I wasn't ready to admit what was really happening as my wife's cancer journey in life came to an end. I wasn't I wasn't crystal clear, and I kind of regret that because it almost was like a double whammy for her after her, it was her stepmom, but after Marcy passed away, it was like, wait, but she was fine like 10 days ago, and we knew it wasn't it wasn't gonna go well. So I think one thing that's and but you got to know your kid. Like if you have a super uh, you know, empath kid that that you know just oozes emotion and takes it all in, you may you may want to, but I think right. Well, I think a lot of times us as adults, we're like, let me protect them. They don't need to. I'm like, well, you can and you know, you don't need to go get the doctor chart and like go medical on them, but you can be honest with them for their age level and who they are. And I think a lot of times we're like, oh no, we're gonna hurt them. It's like, well, it's like you know a car accident's gonna happen, it's gonna hurt. Like, you probably should tell them to put on a seatbelt. Like, sorry, sweetie, this is it, right? Like, so I think there's some honesty, and that's really and you know, you just mentioned, right? Like your oldest was take like no one probably well, maybe you asked, but she just started taking care of her siblings.

SPEAKER_01:

She played that mother hen role while while mom wasn't feeling the greatest. And you know, even even um after the fact, I mean she's still in that role of she wants to be the one to step up and and help any way she can by providing that that quote mother hen role, and she does an amazing job. And and just to your point, you know, being honest and open with her was something that we did again, kind of scripted in a way. We had to edit what we were saying to a certain extent because we didn't want her to worry. But I remember teacher coming up to us, it was probably a year and a half before she had passed. We were having a conversation in the kitchen, she came in, she said, Can we talk? Of course. And we all sat down and she was listening, she goes, I I want you to understand that I I know I'm I'm still a kid yet, but when it comes to mom's health and when it comes to doing what we can to help mom, I want you to be open and honest with me about everything. So I know what I can do to help.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And at the time, 10, 11, I mean, for that to happen at 10, yeah, I was just me and my wife were both just like well, and again, it speaks to like, right?

Matt:

You can't, you know, you kind of know your kid too. You're like, this it blew your mind, but at the same time, it probably wasn't a huge surprise to you, right? Like, exactly just fit her personality. Maybe if the 11-year-old was like, hey, let me can I help you file taxes? You're like, well, wait a minute, you were literally just talking about unicorns and care bears, and now you want to whip out the old W W94, whatever, dash whatever. Anyway, exactly. But I think I think that's something that is worth, you know, kind of staying on is you know, we use really soft words for death, right? We say moved on, passed away, lost. We joke about all the time. Another one's like, I didn't misplace my wife, it's not with the card keys. Like, I like and what's interesting is they tell you up to a certain age, they're like, you just tell them they died. It's super uncomfortable for us adults to hear, like, my daughter will do it, a four-year-old go, like, my mommy died. And people are like, What is that? I'm like, Well, it's uncomfortable to you, but there's no other word in the English language that can be confused for death is died. Pass away. I don't know what that means, lost, or you can lose a lot, right? But there's really only one word that means dead and death, right? And that's dead. And so you know, it hurts for us because in the adult world, we like to soften it up. And we do that with a lot of things, right? Like you just use the right words that are appropriate because it's just gonna make them navigate it way easier where it gets really it can get really murky for them because they're they are in black and white and it and they're stronger than we think. Like we're trying to be nice, like, well, mommy, you know, mommy passed away, or or the what was one of the other ones they say don't like like the whole sleep thing, that'll freak kids out, right? Like, you know, mommy or grandpa, or whatever's gonna they're gonna they went to sleep, they're just not gonna wake up again. And then kids have all these anxieties about sleeping. It's like I know it makes it easier for us not to say the word dead, but I guarantee you if you would have just told them like trees die, pets die, grandpa died, like they would be like, got it. Like, you don't have to go into the whole thing, right? And so I think that's another thing, like really, and I'm kind of harping on it. Like, you have three groups gonna be different for the different age brackets, but I think a level of truth and honesty, knowing the audience, you got to know your kid, is super important. And it sounds, and it sounds like you do that with each one, right? And again, we'll get to the youngest in a minute, but like the 13 and 11-year-old, you delivered that message appropriately for them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and that and for me, that was one of the most important things was um having that having that open, honest relationship with my daughters, all three of them in in general, but the oldest two, like you've mentioned, for me, it was very important to be open and honest about everything because there were good days and bad days as people that have gone through the brief journey and have lost their spouses, they all know there's ups and downs. It happens, it's part of the journey. But with all that being said, you know, those ups and downs, if you if you don't have that certain amount of clarity and truth to it, the ups and downs are so much more drastic than they should be if you're just somewhat honest. And again, knowing the knowing your audience, maybe, but if you're somewhat honest to a certain point, that helps them kind of comprehend everything a lot better, especially in that age. And you know, my daughters, they always told even after the fact, it was that you never you never gave up hope on her. You never you never came home and filled us with nothing but we can do this. Yeah. And I tried my very best to do that, even though at times the writing was on the wall that she was not doing well, and that's just the fact of the matter. And that's unfortunately the fact of life at half the time.

Matt:

I think that unless someone's walked on a turn, and we we I I use the words terminal versus tragic, right? So tragic is an instant, right? And terminal is there's a some some sort of run-up to to to death, whether it's a week or it's a year or ten years. But anyway, uh, so what I was gonna say is if you haven't walked on the terminal path before, it really freaks people out. Okay. And I've I've tried to struggle to find the right one. I stumbled on like something kind of like there's this really weird thing where you you are you uh there's simple ways, like you hope for the best, but you are planning for the worst. That's another one. One is like there's this what you can't do it. It's just like you hang on to hope, but at the same time, you live in reality, right? Like, of course we hope that a magic thing would happen and cancer goes away from our spouse's body. But at the same time, you go like the reality is the statistics say that this is not going to end in any way. We said so how how do you handle that in between, right? Like you live delusionally and be like, everything's gonna be fine, they're gonna be healed. You're like, well, that works until you get hit with it. They're not, and you may have not taken that trip, you may have not spoken honestly to people. One of the phrases my wife and I lived by during her cancer journey when we kind of had an inclination that uh this was not this wasn't a this wasn't a 10-year deal, that uh we're like, say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done because not everyone's given that. And it sounds horrible if you haven't walked on it that gift before. Like you get to tell your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, your friends, your coworkers what they mean to you, what it what however you need to do it. And so it's really odd for people who haven't walked on it before to to understand that like you come home and you're honest, and people are like, But how then then how do you go? How do you go to Disneyland a week later? You're like because we can.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's the one thing that I would encourage pretty much anybody, even if it's even if it's terminal or tragic, have those conversations. I know it's not easy and it's very hard to face those conversations at times. But if I could say anything from even from everything I've gone through my entire life, now I've dealt with the tragic before and I've I've dealt with the terminal recently. And with all that being said, having those conversations is one of the most important things you can do to the people you care about, people you love, your family members. Because that helps yourself grow, it helps them heal, and it helps just the whole process in general.

Matt:

Yeah. And it's a weird thing to say gift. It's not, I mean, and so again, if you haven't walked on it, it's gonna sound really bad, but it's just it's just true. There's a way to live with some honesty and some intention while being dealt this very difficult, very complicated diagnosis of like so you know, I used to tell people too, I was like, I've never had a doctor walk in on a white coat and tell me, like, hey, your life expects and just got cut down to like zero. And you're like, wait, what? Like it's it's gotta do a number on you, right? I mean, I was in the room when it happened to my wife, but it wasn't it was I was happening next to her, but it wasn't happening to me, right? And so it's a weird deal. And so I can only imagine where some people are like, nope, they go one way or the other, right? You you go all happy all the time until it, and that's okay too. But like just know that there are some nuances in there that can make it I don't know, I don't want to say more fulfilling. That sounds awful, but like just and it and there's something too about like you're saying, you could like uh being honest. Like I I was telling someone the other day, even just about like crying in front of the kids, they're like, Well, sometimes you know, you don't want to be crying all the time, all the time in front of the kids. But I also believe that like they need to see that we're sad, and it's okay, like you know, oh, you miss mommy. Yeah, I do, I do, and it sucks that no one else is here to do the thing that a mommy would do or a partner would do or whatever. I'm like, and I'm tired and I'm not mad, I'm just crying because it's not fair to you, to me, the world that this wonderful person is gone. So I think it's something like that's part of I think that's the seed of honesty that was planted during our cancer journey that I've continued to kind of like nourish. I'm like, man, like if someone how you doing today, not great. Like, that's okay to say that. Like, I see, especially people get it.

SPEAKER_01:

I wouldn't tell that to the lady at the cashier, but I've done that before, actually, when it's been well, and with the kids too, you know, because of that level of honesty that uh that we have set up because of that journey, it is it has helped me not just become a better person, better father for them, because now we have that that trust and that honesty built in the house into our daily lives now that allows not just myself, but all family included to understand that hey, if you're having a bad day, talk about it, let it out, don't hold it in. Like it's it's one of those it's it's one of those things in a retrospective kind of way that even though it's still very early on for me, I'm still finding it now that being honest and open with your emotions at times are are a good thing. I mean, you can be oversharing at times too, but for sure.

Matt:

Yeah, the poor the poor cashier at Target is not needed to be. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Although every now and then you may want to, it's kind of sometimes the shock and awe is fun. Like, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, well, let me tell you what.

Matt:

Um, so the 13 and 11-year-old kind of picked up the the the cancer journey and walked with it. What was your experience with the little and her relationship to to mom? Because I find it interesting, like mine with you know, newborn, same thing, it was different.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and that's the thing, too. With the four-year-old, it's it's been, I don't want to say it's been it's been easy because it hasn't been, but it's also been eye-opening as far as I know her journey is just beginning because the her whole world was her mom. Uh I was able to provide for her the whole time so she could stay home, take care of the kids. And so for my little one, she was home every day. That was her entire world. She didn't know anything else besides mom not being sick and being home and doing things with her, showing her letters, shapes, and colors, and being so when she had passed, it it definitely impacted her quite a bit. But it's also now that again, four months out, it's not a lot of time, but there's like yesterday, you kind of touched based on a a little while ago here. It was I'm fine, right? And my daughter came up to me last night and she goes, Daddy, you okay? I said, I'm fine. She runs at me, gives me a big hug, and she goes, I know you needed a hug for for mom. I know you missed. I'm like, Oh, so it's it's they can read it.

Matt:

I might I get my my youngest, I must get some special look on my face because I'll do folding laundry. We'll just whatever. And all of a sudden she'll be like, Dad, you miss mama. And I was like, I must get some very different look on my face. And and I'm like, Yeah, I do. And you know, sometimes it leads to more, sometimes that's it. Sometimes I get a hug, sometimes like my daughter's four and mean, and she goes, get over. No, I'm just kidding. Get over and give me some apples, big man. Um, they're like, Oh, you're brutal. No. Um, what's interesting, do you? I know you're only you're only you're four months out. Have you noticed a shift in any of the girls of their gravitation towards? I love what Ben Ben, I'm using his phrase, of their gravitation towards feminine energy, whether it's a mom influence or grandma or aunt.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I had I had a very good friend of mine that I introduced to my kids. And um, just that just that female energy that was around them, my four-year-old almost immediately gravitated towards her. And it was it's not a bad thing at all. In fact, I encouraged it because it was one of those moments where I'm like, okay, she wants this, she needs that feeling again. And I'm like, I'm like, go for it, have have that moment. And my other daughters are the same thing. Uh uh, she's a very good friend of mine, and um, because of that motherly quality she has, like, my my daughters immediately gravitated towards her, and it became easy. She started asking questions that I wasn't prepared for, like, uh, so when should I start shaving my legs? Uh, what kind of products should I be using? Um, you know, those kind of things. And those are questions that I'm like, well, I can show you how to shave my your legs, but uh you know, mine are pretty hairy. I don't know how well that would go.

Matt:

And as far as great, isn't it? There's a great commercial that came out a few years ago.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Matt:

I oh man, and it was it was a dad, and it's like Procter Gamble or somebody, and it's like he's butchering the hell out of his legs, showing his daughter, which I don't know the backstory. They don't really go to into it. She's just a teen, which I think it was we'll just go with like it was Dove or something. It was like all the products of their lives, is and then it shows her like going away to college and of course bowling your eyes out. But um, it's interesting, right? Like, there's like we are capable, we can do things, but I have there's something about also like I can tell my daughter she looks pretty, and it's true. Yeah, hearing it from a female voice changes everything. Every every yeah, and so and so they gravitate towards it. And do the are you comfortable with like in there's another gentleman I referenced just a minute ago, his name's Bill. He had, and is I'll just make up the years because I'm gonna butcher it, but he's 10 years out. And he his girls that are now once, I think in college, another graduated college, still have like this little tribe of women that he's remarried and they have a stepmom, but like they were there through the grief. They were they were there, they were like mom's friends, and so they have this little circle, I'll just call them of like ants, that they still every now and then will text or have a cup of coffee with, which you know, it's it's it's amazing to me. And I I I hope that's something over time, because again, she's four, but like your 13-year-old can have that sort of circle of someone to draw from, even if we'll say when, hopefully, uh, you know, you you get forward with living again and maybe finding someone to be involved in your life, they're still gonna because that person the that that little group will bridge, right? Like that that bridge. And you don't ever want that to go away if it's healthy, right? Which is great. My my four-year-old, you know, my my wife has has an amazing group of friends. There's just not a lot they can offer a four-year on a daily basis. But as soon as she hits like whatever age is to gonna tick dad off, she's gonna need to be calling those ladies. I'm like, I have no idea what color fuchsia is, and she wants to wear it. I don't like someone come help me pick out a dazzled jean jagged or whatever the trends may be.

SPEAKER_01:

Ironically enough, I mean, I I'm I'm kind of one of those people that um, and as you've gotten to know me fairly well now, um, it's it's not hard for me to talk to people, meet people. Um, and I've created bonds with a lot of people throughout this journey, even with my wife while she wasn't doing the greatest. And we have this nice little uh I want to call it a safety net, is what I like to call it. We have this little safety net of groups of, I call them our uh adoptive uncles and aunts. I have I have friends of mine that live up in Canada, I have friends of mine that live in Milwaukee, I have friends of mine that live in Minnesota. Um it's no matter where we kind of branch out from where we're living, we have some type of person or some type of safety net in place where if they need something, I know I can reach out to any corner of where I'm at and go, hey, why don't you talk to Uncle Deb? Why don't you talk to, you know, why don't you talk to Auntie? Why don't you talk to this person? And that has been something that I've been truly blessed with having. And uh like the gentleman in um Canada, I've known him for 12 years. He's been through the whole journey with me and my kids. He's talked to him on the phone, he's talking to my wife personally. I mean, and having that nice safety met now, mind you, I've never met this guy in person. I've just I've just known him through just phone calls, things like that. Having that kind of level of support has been extremely helpful, extremely helpful.

Matt:

What I was writing down, sorry to go off there. Um, what I was writing down was uh you call it a safety net and adopted aunts and uncles. I've also heard it called like support network, right? Or the other one, or sorry, you said safety net, uh, is uh I chosen family, right? Because we have family family and it's not comparing, it's not like one's better, but like there's just these core group of folks that you repeatedly can rely on that always show up in the way that you need them to show up, right? Whether that's a phone call or whether it's someone that's like, hey, I know that it's Blair's first day of school and we're sending her a care pack, whatever it might be. They they show up in the way that you need them to show up and to continue to foster that because I think also remember, guys in general, we we I was just thinking about this like women have this innate ability to create something out of nothing. And I mean that by like they can create a community, they can create a PTA, they can create a group of people to go out and do something, right? Like for a cause or whatever. Guys are really good at creating something out of something, building crap, fixing it. Like it was an intro. I just kind of had a pivot. I was like, wow. So now when you're a solo dad, you're supposed to create something out of nothing, right? So I just this is gonna sound really I was at the park the other day and started to kind of ironically enough, this guy's daughter has a very similar name to mine, and we're talking, blah, blah, blah. We're like, oh funny, and they start doing the slide. We start talking, kind of do the, you know, we kind of suss each other out, like, are we gonna are we on the same page? And so we're leaving we're swapping phone numbers like and the girls, like, we're gonna do sleepovers. I'm like, it's amazing at four, they're best friends forever, right? What one hour in the park? I'm still looking at this guy going, like, I don't know. Like, are you vegan? I don't right. So, um, because I like bacon anyway, and so and so we're walking to the car and he goes, This is gonna be really interesting. I'm gonna come home, tell my wife I met a dude at the park. Can he come over? And I'm like, right? It's totally weird. But women do it all the time. They're like, I have cop. So I think that's an interesting nuance. And what I want to get back to is your safety net. If people can take from what you just said, too, is continue to foster and feed that because when you're as well, it's gonna be so important, and it may change in nuance over time. But my gosh, if you've got something like that, continue to use it because I think a lot of times we guys and Ben and I have talked about this and I think in an episode that's not released yet, but we we suck at using the H word, like help. Like we just like whatever it might be, that and sometimes we don't know what we need for help until we know just having someone to go to a bullpen or the family or the safety net, right? That you can go, like, you know who I can call about that, or you know who's gonna help me figure this out, or you know, the kid can call about that, right? So I think like take take that as you know, kudos to you for doing that and continue to fostering it too. That's like that's not that's not really a natural, a a really natural guy thing to do all the time, especially when you're you've gotten older, right? As you become a more of an adult, you're like, well, my circle's just it's just this, and you're like, but grief smashes that, and you're like, you're gonna have to because some of my best friends, now they've called me out a few times, but like they get it as best they can, but they're all happy and merry and right, and so like they're awesome, but at the same time, I'm like, I need to talk to someone who has the next level of empathy for me or sympathy. I always give those two mixed up. So good for you. So keep doing that, and the girls are comfortable with that too, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like they know they they love it. Like I said, it's it's it's that nice little safety net that I that we have in place, and it's it's nice to know that uh, you know, if my my oldest, for example, um, she has a very good friend of hers. Her mom and my wife were best friends, and they have they have classes together, they're constantly talking with each other. And she has her mom as kind of her adoptive and adoptive mom at the moment in time, because again, there's still a lot of questions, there's still a lot of unknowns. So she's really stepped up and helped me with that as well. And um, as far as you know, having that in place, at an at a very young age, I had to learn very quickly that asking for help is not the easiest thing, like you said. For for men, it's even even after my wife has passed. It's people were doing their best, family members are trying their best to be helpful. But in that moment in time, especially early on, you want to try your best to manage your grief, but you also want to be both the man and step up and try to do everything yourself when you know you need the help, but you're like, no, I'll be fine. And it it's it's hard to accept those things at times. Um, I would say the first few months after she passed, it was it was a little rough with with the family because I was so defiant in being told what I had to do and then what I was willing to accept. And that was that's still a little back and forth, a little hard to deal with.

Matt:

Kind of do some clarity on that.

SPEAKER_01:

So of course, me personally, if someone tells me in a certain manner, like, take out the garbage, just use a yeah, goes take out the garbage. I get a little defensive, and I'm like, Well, why don't you take out the garbage? Versus, hey, the garbage is coming, why don't you maybe get that out so we can get that ready for tomorrow? Yeah, sure, no problem. So there's there's a slight difference in the way things are approached. Yep. So in the beginning, it was well, you need to do this for your girls, you need to do it this way, you need to do it that way. And I found myself butting back a lot. And I found myself being more confrontational or almost defensive in a way, because I was like, Well, the way I was doing it was just fine, and even though she's not here, I'm still gonna keep doing it this way, right? Without realizing that I needed that help to get my kid, my kids, myself, my family to the point where I can be that same type of way.

Matt:

Right. Yeah, well, you know, and true, uh, you know, early on, uh, it like I'm trying to go all the way back. So if my first four months would have covered suspend uh our the anniversary of our first date and us meeting, my birthday, Thanksgiving. We used to do a big Friends giving, so like you know, friends for Thanksgiving, uh, my eldest's birthday, uh, Christmas, New Year's Eve, uh, so that's uh October, November, December, January. So yeah, and almost well, five five months gets a star anniversary, right? And so it is such a uh tsunami of grief waves. I think if anyone had come and told me you should or did anything counterintuitive of what I was doing, I don't know if I would have noticed. I was so probably emotionally exhausted, I would have been like, whatever. Like I I think, like, I think someone had to tell me, like, you have to take she's 18 months, you need to take her to the doctor. Like she needs a checkup. And I'm like, huh? Like I was right. And so I think also, depending on we'll go three more months. We'll get to about six months or something. And you look back and you go, like, it may have just been a self-defense mechanism. Yeah. Where you're like, listen, I understand you're giving me on the surface, on paper, this is really good advice that you're giving me that I should be doing. You have to understand I can't take any more changes or any more input right now because of what I'm dealing on the surface and what I'm dealing with emotionally on the inside, right? That's exactly right. It could have just been a self-defense mechanism of like, even though you have it, it's your tendency anyway, but it could have just been like, I gotta wrap myself in some sort of continuity so I can come out and start figuring it out. And I I remember one of my one of my grief counselors was saying, like, there's this, there's a fog, there's definitively a grief fog where like you just kind of walk around, you're like, I don't, and then all of a sudden it's like you're in a dark, you're in your room, but it's pitch black, right? So you know there's a bed, you know there's a nightstand, you know, there's a chair, you know, you know there's stuff. And eventually you start you're feeling around, you're like, oh yeah, that's right. That's the bed. And you start to be able to function again because you're able to identify stuff and figure it out, right? And so, but it's a self, it's like it's like someone turn the lights off and you go into a cocoon because you just got to deal with what you can emotionally. So that I I would give yourself a little bit of grace, but it's good for you to acknowledge that and then realize too. Now you're going, like, oh, now's the time that I, you know, you whatever the girl should be in summer camps. And you're like, yeah, but I want to go because it makes me feel loved and safe and secure. And then you realize, you know what, actually, if they're comfortable with going, as difficult as it may be for me emotionally, maybe that's good. I'm using that as a total made-up example. But um, what did you find? So, so a little bit of that, uh, and as you came out and started realizing, you know, people are are either offering help, maybe the delivery's a little off. I say that a lot of times where like people's hearts in the right places, but it may not be their deliveries off, we just don't receive it the right way, too. That could be our right, our receptors may be slightly broken at the time. What so, and I know you and I have talked um briefly off-air or after recording about, you know, you're growing up. So with the things that happened to you growing up, what what tools did you kind of bring in? Whatever you want to share, right? What tools did you bring into the grief? Well, that's like so any tools you brought in or any past experience you drew off of in the cancer journey, and then anything in the grief realm where you had to either be cognitive of. Or go like, hey, I remember in my life when this happened, the result was not great. So let me try not to do X, Y, and Z or A, B, C. Like, because you you cut your growing up, it brings you to a different perspective.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, right. So I mean, early on, I it was very, very young when it happened, but uh I was uh a part of a divorced family at the age of eight. Um, and at the age of 10, um, due to that divorce and just what my mental state was at the time, um, I actually was uh sent to a um psychiatric ward for observation for suicide for about a month and a half. And at 10, that's a that's a hectic thing. But with all that being said, with those things that are going that went on, it helped me realize at a very young age the warning signs, what to watch for and what kind of pitfalls to not have to worry about it going forward. Um, and I had unfortunately with my grief stages, um, when it comes to that journey, I've been through the grief stages more than once. Um I had had close friends of mine in in high school that were very close to me, one of which died into uh a car accident. They are um pulled over the top of her, unfortunately. And um we were very, very close. And I couldn't I couldn't say goodbye. It was very difficult for me at that time because again, I I think I was 14 at the time. And I after that whole journey and after dealing with that kind of grief, and that's such a sudden, tragic resource ask, right? I realized my coping mechanisms because of that, what I needed to do for myself to help me get through those kind of grief stages. Then to fast forward two years later, I had another friend of mine, very good friend of mine in high school, die from cancer. And yeah, so it was one of those things where I already had kind of a feeling and a tendency of how do I get through these steps when I lose someone I care about, how I go through dealing with someone that I've been friends with for a very long time, and how to recover from all those things. And the the for me personally, the coping mechanisms that I was finding out early on, especially in the grief process, was I need to make sure I can take the time to completely unplug from the world and take those moments to let it out, get over not get over, but let it out and get get past that point of okay, this is what happened. I need to understand this is what happened and work on trying to be stronger for myself because there's still others around me that are going to be impacted by what happened.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

So so for like I said, my my two friends that had passed, I had a I had a very large group of friends, and in in high school, if you remember, it's it was you know, you had your little clicks, and all those clicks had other little clicks. So I I was one of those kind of people that like to bounce around. So I knew in those moments and times that I would have a lot of people coming up to me who were asking questions like, How do you feel? or how are you handling all of this? And it helped me become a stronger person individually because I knew those questions were gonna happen, and it helped allow me to give back in the way that I've always wanted to give back and see support of other people. Um, and then before my uh my wife, uh my mother had passed away. Uh, I was adopted, so my my adoptive mother, um, she had passed away from type 2 diabetes, and that one that one hurt a lot. Um, because again, from being in a divorced home, she was a single mom for a very long time. And I was very close to my mother, and she taught me how to take care of family better the way that I truly wanted to be able to take care of them. So I followed her example by even though she wasn't feeling good, her eyesight was going, things like that, but just the complications with that. That no matter what happens, you have to constantly keep pushing forward. And that has been a mantra I've used almost my entire life. So it's even the grief journey, the tragic or terminal, even now. Uh I I have to keep using this mantra of no matter what happens, you have to find a way to keep pushing forward.

Matt:

There's just I think I agree. There's one I'm not one of steel it because it's only in the colorectal cancer group that uses hashtag, but um keep going forward is is something too that I think people may over uh magnify, like make it bigger than it is. In other words, like, oh, like some big grandioso going forward. No, keep going forward may mean like you just do a load of laundry.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. It could be the smallest things that make the biggest impacts, and everyone again, everyone has their own different ways of handling their grief, their journey, and handling what's going on in their world at that time. For me personally, it's it's been you know, I have my good days and my bad days. I have my bad days, they are bad and they are they can be all-consuming at times. But if I don't say that mantra to myself and just pick myself off the couch or get out of bed in the morning, because I understand there's people out there that are like, I don't even want to get out of bed. That's that's totally understandable. That's that's something that people who have gone through this journey understand that really well. But if you don't do that, how can you keep pushing forward? How can you keep being better? The conversation I had with my wife, one of the very last times, she had said, I want you to be happy. And I said, I understand. She goes, and I I don't know if it'll ever be better for you, but that's what I want. And I said, Listen, at the end of the day, there's never going to be uh better from what we have here in our life. We have together in our right. It's what we can to what we can do to be better in our life, what we can do to be better for the people that we have unfortunately have lost in this process. What can we do to be better for ourselves, for our kids, for the in honor and memory of the people? So that's another one that I try to remember. And self-affirmations are huge. To be better, you have to be able to get yourself out of bed and do the things that even though it may be hard, you gotta keep putting a foot in front of the other.

Matt:

Yeah, there's I was just having a conversation with someone the other day about like I don't want to reference any specific motivational speaker because I don't want to put words in their mouth and get in trouble. Not sponsored by anybody. Uh that uh a lot of them, it's they've and they've done studies about this, like it's usually just do the one thing. It's kind of the whole remember, I my grandpa goes way back. So for kids who don't paint rooms or houses, they're gonna have no idea what I'm talking about. But like you look at a project, you're like, it's so daunting to paint a room. Yeah. Like, no, you start with a corner. And I think it's kind of that sort of idea of like uh literally, like like you know, one of my wife's actually monitored, like, better. If you're just a little better every day, great you're gonna be on time, right? Um right, it's kind of same thing with all sorts of personal games, right? Whether you're talking about working out or running or eating if you eat if you eat one more ounce of vegetables every day than you did before, you're gonna eat more vegetables over the course of the year, right? Like it's just an ounce. Like, how hard can it be? So, or an apple a day, right? If you just ate one more apple a day than you did before the year before, you've got to be a little bit healthier, I would think. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

And the reason that that it's so true for myself is I've been down that self-deprecating road myself. And that that's something that I I didn't mention, but I I kind of want to make sure I make it much the same.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Um during that in-between period of 14 and 16, when I lost one friend and then I lost another, yeah. In between there, I was in that self-deprecating phase where I was actually addicted to some pretty hard drugs at the age of 15. I mean, it was narcotics, they were very tough drugs that even as an adult, you're going you would say, wow, really? And and at the age of 15, I had access to them and and I abused them. And I was I lived underneath an overpass for three months as a 15-year-old kid. And just being able to get out of that and and having friends of mine and their family step up and practically save my life and help me get back on my two feet again. That's when that be better for yourself and everything else really started to make a lot more sense. Because being down that self-deprecating mode and trying to do anything you can to make the pain go away, so to speak.

Matt:

Yeah, it's well, it's chasing that dry, right? You're trying to numb something you can't be numbed, right? And the feelings suck. They suck. If you had two friends pass away in the span of a year, uh tragically or qu more quickly, right? Or what you had cancer, the accident went to that's a lot of grief to handle. But one of the things that is really hard to explain to someone who's, I would say, younger would be like uh grief uh will find a way uh to be acknowledged. Uh you can run as fast as you want and as far as you want away from it. But guess what grief's gonna do? It's gonna make you run fast, right? Like it's going to be addressed. And if you try to ignore it, it's gonna stop it, you're gonna either go down a self-department, you're gonna create a deal with, you're gonna, or you're gonna make a you're gonna make some really odd life choices and also put yourself in a situation where you're like, well, now it's bad that I don't have a house or whatever, right? Like, I don't know what happened, but I don't have parents anymore. You're like some poor choices because you're not addressing your grief, right? When the grief unfortunately there are, and I I have other grief counts to say like there is no wrong way to no wrong way to grief. There's just some really unhealthy choices we can make. Like if you're if your grief pattern is to sit on the couch and cry over every movie, that's okay. If your thing is to go to the gym workout and cry in the car afterwards, that's okay too. Because you're acknowledging it, you're addressing it, and you're dealing with it. If your thing is to go right back out there and pretend like nothing happened at all, that's gonna not go well. Right. And so I think that's one of the things that you kind of learned in your opening, your time under the bridge with it. Like, oh, people were saying, like, not only do you want to be better for yourself, but you need to recognize stuff. And it's okay feeling for making the vine. It's okay not to be okay. It's okay not to add angry again, stages aren't linear. All those feelings that come up, uh it's okay to follow all of them. And some of them are messy and ugly, but if you address them, the next time they come up, they're you're they're a little more easy to handle. It's like taking small bites of a big sandwich, too, right? Like a big little extra. So knowing those with your wife's journey and your wife's death, that either you recognize and go, aha, here it is again, or hey, don't fall into that trap, or those sort of things. Because those past experiences, hopefully we learn from them. And if we don't, hopefully we don't necessarily repeat the same mistake.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Well, and with the wife's journey, you know, obviously it was with all my prior experiences in my life and everything with losing my friends and other, um, those kind of things. When it came to our relationship um and and being in that caretaking role for her, it helped me in in a lot of ways prepare not just myself, but her and her mental state for everything that she was going to be dealing with at that moment in time. Because again, I we were together a long time. I was very open and honest with her about my past and all the things that I've gone through. So she truly understood the kind of things that I had gone through and we had talked about those kind of things. And it was nice because she had said on more than one occasion, she goes, I don't, I don't think there's anything I could possibly say or do or complain about in my life because you've gone through hell and back, and you're still this loving, caring father, and you care about me and you're doing everything you can for me. She goes, I there's no reason that I should be able to hang it up or fall in these little pits of sadness and in despair when I know someone else in my life that's going through that journey with me right now has been in that same hole that has found a way out of those pits, has found a way to color through those kind of things. So it helped our relationship. And then even as far as taking care of her, it helped me manage more of my emotions during the time period of okay, she just got diagnosed with breast cancer. What can we do? And it helped me focus all of my energy on the next step. What can we do to keep pushing forward? What can we do to be better in this situation right now? And that in turn helped strengthen her and help give her some resolve in all this because it was one of those things where she it got she got hit hard with this news. She never thought in a million years this would ever happen. Well, unfortunately, it did. So now what now we need to do is concentrate on what next? What can we do now to change the outcome right now to give us more time, anything else? And that helped strengthen her resolve, I think, quite a bit. And with other family members and friends and close confidence of our relationship, it allowed us to be very open and honest and loving to the world because of everything that we've gone through as a couple up to that point and all those experiences that I've had. It allowed us to be a little bit more open and honest with the group of friends that we were with about the journey and about everything else. So that had a lot to do with it too. So I guess at the end of the day, my my history didn't just shape who I was as a person, but it also made a very large impact on how hard and how ferociously my my wife fought for literally everything because she knew that there was a darker side to everything else and that she could push past it because of an example laid in front of it. Now I'm not I'm not gonna sit here and toot my own horn or anything, but again, you know, it's it's those past experiences that that shape who you become as a person. And if you can if you can lay that out to anyone, especially someone that you love and care for deeply enough to help prevent them from slipping and falling and help grab them and pick them up off the floor when they're weak, great.

Matt:

Um, any any sort of resources in your first four months that you would either give a shout out to anybody, like, hey, like I mean, I have an amazing widow group from a cancer house in in I'll go ahead and say it's called the Wellness House outside of Chicago in Hensdale, Illinois. So if you're listening and you're in the greater Chicago area and you've had loss or you're dealing with cancer, reach out to the wellness house, they're amazing. Shameless plug. But so something like that or a book or anything like that that's either helped you or the kiddos. Um, I'd love to put it in the show notes. So anything like that that's helped you again, you're fresh, you're new. Maybe there's something super exciting about new grief. I don't know about. I don't know. I try to stay up on it, but who knows? Anything like that, Adam?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, so for me, like uh I would say the last month for sure, I've been lucky enough to meet some amazing people that have helped me through a lot. But my place of business that I work for, they offer an employee referral counseling system that has offered um counseling sessions for myself and for their employees. And I gotta tell you, having a counselor or a therapist or anyone you can really share your insecurities with, your problems with, your just your even your daily routine of this is tough. And having that ability to rely on someone to talk to you, even if it's once every three weeks, uh, that has been so immensely helpful for me and my journey so far. Um, I I this past month of my life has been kind of up and down, obviously, with just going through the processes and everything else. But with all that being said, you know, it's without that kind of level of support from the counseling system, it definitely wouldn't have been as easy. Um, I have been reading a few self-help books. I can't remember the name of one. I think one of them was you are a badass, you get used to it. I can't remember the the author, but that one's filled with a lot of uh recognizing that you're not okay right now, and that you are you are able to keep pushing forward, and and you're it's it's it's a lot of self-affirmations, but it's also a lot of reflective you're going through a rough time right now, but you can get it through it because you're you're a badass. You're somebody that can step up to the plate and get through these kind of things.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I've I've been definitely doing that, and then my own self-coping mechanism is writing poetry. I've enjoyed doing um it's something I was good at in high school that helped me through my friends, my losses with them, through even the rehab journey of the addiction. Uh, I wrote poetry a lot. Um, and and getting those inner thoughts and your inner feelings out on paper.

Matt:

There's something about that. There's there's definitely something. The podcast is one version of that for sure, but there is something about whether you're writing or typing journaling. Uh, so you're talking about the one book, and you were able to run and go grab the author, is and I'll put it in the show notes too. So it's you're a badass by Jen.

SPEAKER_01:

Jen Sincero. Um, she is a New York Times bestselling author. She's sold two million copies of this book. It's You Are a Badass, How to Stop Doubting Your Greatness and Start Living an Awesome Life.

Matt:

Awesome. And then the other one that you were able to go pick up, you're saying is what?

SPEAKER_01:

And it's called The Highly Sensitive People. It's How to Manage Your Emotion, Stop Anxiety and Negative Energy in Highly Sensitive by a gentleman named Bennett Robson. And basically, what that is, that is uh um a complete guide for sensitive people. They they HPS are H S P is about what they we refer to as and um it's helped me a lot with my emotional anxieties that I've been having as far as um you know with with my wife being gone, it was at such that high level of emotion that I shared with her on a on a regular basis, and how to deal with still being that highly sensitive person right now, how to kind of quiet some of those things down and really rationalize those. It has a very scientific look to it, but it was also very informative with just the information that's in the book.

Matt:

Does it does that book talk about because I find this is way generalization, but when it talks about anxiety, um a lot of times what I have found, and this is way over uh simplification, uh, is coming back to like the here and now, right? Like almost yeah, it's like to way simplification. I don't want to take it as like a pamphlet of like just be present. It's a little more than that. But it's like right, they talk about like uh you can't have a panic attack like while you're like I'm I'm gonna go like while you're exhaling at a four second clip, like it's just like your body everything about how your body's reacting to the stimul to the perceived stimulus or real stimulus, whatever it might be, right? Like they talk about like military, was it the four second block breathing where you inhale for two, exhale for two, inhale for two, exhale. You just keep you know just whatever the number is. But does it kind of talk about that or does it go into some other stuff as well?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's it's very again, it's one of those very buttoned up kind of informative ones. Like it gives you like general generalized anxiety disorder. Or what a generalized anxiety disorder would be. We talk about social anxiety disorder, what a frenzy disorder would be, what a phobia is. Um, and it helps kind of point out certain things, um, and like separation anxiety disorders. They they cover that extensively as far as how to recognize those, what kind of things you can do to um kind of relieve those kind of symptoms, reasons for your anxiety, um, hereditary qualities, science sciences. I mean, it's a very informative book, and it's definitely not one of those ones that uh can be kind of to a certain extent. This is more of a very analytical, very to the point kind of thing that helps you recognize okay, these are the things that I'm feeling or I'm going through, and these are the things you can do to help recognize those things, and then you can kind of quit with those app.

Matt:

Well, that's that's I mean, it have you seen uh is there any uh grief books that you've tapped into at all? I know I have I have like a library of ones I usually recommend for people, but has there been any that you have found that dealing with loss specifically?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, the one you mentioned earlier, uh Megan Devine. Uh yes, I did read that book. That was a suggestion that was given to me from a fellow support group that um is on Facebook. Uh Widow and Widows uh support group. I want to make sure I give them a shout out as well. They've been amazingly supportive.

Matt:

Which one is that?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh Extremely Young Widows and Widowers on Facebook. It's it's got 2,500 plus people. Um, and there's constantly new additions to the group because unfortunately it's just a common thing to have this happen at a younger age. Uh but with that resource, I can't tell you how amazing it is that they that they have that offered. And yeah, if anybody is listening to this that has begun their journey, or even if they're a few years out, I highly suggest looking into those kind of groups online.

Matt:

Helps the yeah, there are there are several that are really good. What I would every group, I shouldn't say some group, every group's gonna have a post just like in Facebook today, that is you're gonna that's gonna jerk you the wrong or the right way, depending on how you want to look at it. And so like just remember that when you're talking about a group, it's a safe space for people in grief. So like maybe give if I I agree with you, the extremely young widow groups is another good one. I should probably start maybe one time I'll do a whole social media on uh uh review of like the groups that I've referenced and that I actually uh go and look for widowed for solo dads, is what I do. It's kind of weird, but it's the only thing. And what I was gonna say is uh go down, search through the post because you will find you'll find your tribe of people who are dealing with grief their own way. And man, one of the things you'll find in there is holy cow, there are some situations where you just go like, I like I have one little and an older, so my situation is what it is. There are some people out there where I'm like, Right.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's very eye-opening in those groups, you know. And to your point, like you said too, you know, it's you can't compare different levels of grief because everyone agrees their own way and everything's going through something different. But at the end of the day, it gives you such a large perspective of exactly what you can it does kind of hold on to and go, okay, this person kind of understands where I'm coming from. And these groups, they're so open and honest. And everyone that I've met on there, I and I I didn't mean this wholeheartedly, everyone that I've met on there has been so open and honest and has been so well.

Matt:

We may have connected that may be the one we connected on. I can't remember. That's that's the one we connected on, yes. Well, and that's the thing, too, is like so keep in mind, and I I do like that. I'll put it for a different kind of show reviewer notes of like, here are the groups, but like uh uh you're absolutely right. Like, definitely go on to whatever your social media jam is. There's also some really great Instagram accounts that give you like uh phrases and and little snippets, like there are some TikTok even talking, which is I don't mean that in a downplaying way, it's not a conversation, it's they're throwing you, you know, a couple of phrases a day of like, you know, the rocks are hard and water is wet. What are you gonna do about it? Right, type of stuff that is really good to grief. And I and I think there are some really great ones that people should and again, there's gonna be ones that speak to you, and there's gonna be ones that don't, and that's okay. So inside of those groups, there are people that are gonna get it. And and I think you're absolutely right. So good, good call on that. Um, and the Megan Devine one, I was just the only thing I wanted to say is so she does since she's mentioned writing, I have not done it, but I've heard nothing but good things from people who've done Megan Devine's, I think it's refuge or ref yeah, it's refuge in grief. And I think it's a 30-day journaling writing course, and I have yet to have anybody give it anything but good to great, like it really helped me. I would say, especially within the first six months, I think there's just something there about putting it to paper. I'm a firm believer. I mean, I've kept a lot of my wife's handwriting just because there's something about when it's in writing, it changes. So um, again, no perfect formula here, just what we have what what we're all dabbling in and finding. Like, um, anything else, because I think we're kind of up on time and I know that you've got kiddos, and I think I have one somewhere. Um, anything else that you want to uh tell people, the solo dads and the people that listen to the podcast about this and and anything else?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, I'll say this, and and I've I've talked a little bit to you about it before, off air, things like that. Um, the solo dads group and this podcast has been such an amazing outlet for not just myself, but for a lot of people, and I cannot stress enough at all. I want to make sure I make this crystal clear. I cannot stress enough how important it is that you have this outlet for everyone, Matt, because you and Ben doing this podcast has opened up the windows and the doors for so many people, just like myself. Again, I'm so new to all this, I'm so fresh with all this. But having this level of support and having just the other dads to kind of chime in when you're having a bad day going, crap. I I'm pretty sure I just lit my house on fire. What the hell do I do now? And having having that group of guys just be like, eh, you're fine, put it out, you'll be fine. That's been amazing. So I want to make sure I say that quickly because it's been it's been an absolute eye-opener, and I wouldn't be where I am at four months out if I wasn't for the support that I've gotten from all the solo dads and in that group and this podcast. With that also being said, I'm uh me personally, I'm a big gamer. The gaming community, they're great.

Matt:

I know uh some that's awesome, man. So it's you know, show good, good, you know, good call. Like, I think actually, sorry. Yeah, no, you're fine. I think no, I was gonna say, I think guys may not realize that, like you just said, gaming could be the gym, it could be your hunting club, it could be you might have a community that you don't think you can tap into because it's not all about loss and grief or whatever, or maybe it's not even about being a dad, maybe it's all the opposite things, but you may want to reach out to it. Keep going, it's online gaming, keep going, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so like the gaming community, they're great. And the reason I'm saying this is because um I've had I again, that's been my outlet. That's been one of the things that I've done to help me kind of you know just deal with everything. But it's also a great thing to unplug and not have to think about it a hundred percent of the time. And and if you can find random people online or you can find buddies years at play, I've met some amazing people just by saying hi, how are you and getting to know them? It's it's one of those things that I think again, this is just my personal journey, but I really think that if someone may be listening to this and they go, Well, you know, I just don't have friends or I don't really have people that I like to talk to, I promise you, type of any type of community at all, especially the gaming community, they're all I shouldn't say all. They're like most of them are most of them are great people. And it's when you get it's when you get dunked on by a by a by a younger child that that's when it hurts a little bit.

Matt:

Well, that's humiliating, but yeah. Well, and you know what, like what's interesting though, right? Like, I think what it does is also when you have like a community like that that you were involved in prior to grief and you're involved in post-grief, the commonality stays the same. So it doesn't change the reason you met. Now, when you do post-grief and pre-grief, like you have a certain, like there are people that you only I'll just use me. There are people I was beginning to meet because my wife and I were a couple. My wife did some things, I moved. So all those kind of interactions stopped. And I gotta go now. Anyone I meet's only gonna be post-grief. They didn't even know, like my neighbors never knew my wife, my new neighbors, right? Because she's dead. Oh, and so it changed. So all of a sudden the commonality I'm looking for has got to be uh like usually as it does with dads, my kids' stuff, right? Now I'm looking for that conduit or something else I do, whether it's the gym or golf or online, right? Because you gotta find it. So I think too, that having that group that knew you before, during, and after, I think people discount how important that is because they still know you as you, right? And so even though you might be crying as you're uh sniping in Call of Duty, uh, they'll understand why, right? Like I think I told you the story when Ben and I we got paired with a random guy. He goes, Like, how do you guys know each other? I'm like, Well, do we lie? Do we tell the truth? Right, right. He's like, Oh god, I'm so sorry, your wives are dead. We're like, sorry, buddy, but yeah, because the screen was loading. Like, what do we want to do? He seemed like a nice guy, it all turned out fine. But those are the and you'd be surprised, right? Like now, like that guy still worked. I don't play that often anymore just because of life events as being a solo dad, but we're still connected on on the on Xbox. And what's interesting is like every now and then you'll just send a rank, like, how you doing? And it's like, you know what? Like, good for him. Like, you know, it was a fun, we had a fun little time. So I think that's super important that you brought that up. That you may have a sense of commute, you may have a community that you would have never thought to tap into or lean into because they're not whatever, whether it was terminal or it was tragic, they're not that related and they're not grief related. Doesn't mean, like I said, way before, I have friends that like can give me as much empathy as they can. They called me out on it. They were like, You don't talk about this stuff to us. I'm like, Well, like, what are you gonna do about it? And they're like, We can listen, you asshole. And I'm like, fair point. So you have been my friend for 30 years. Got it. Um, so like take that into consideration. Like, we kind of like guys kind of take it in. You might be surprised that, like, sitting, whatever your thing is, having a beer, a chai tea, drinking water, going on a triathlon, whatever your kick is, the person that's been doing that with you, pre-grief and post-grief, may be a lot more open to listening to you than you might think. So, I think that's a really good point. So, online gaming community is great. We got the the couple of different widow groups we'll mention, the solo dad podcast and the solo dad group. And again, anyone's listening, the solo dad group is currently just private, just to try to keep it a little more intimate, but eventually it will be public. So you can you can look for it, you can email the solo dad if you know Adam, you reach out at Adam or whatever, but like or me or Ben, and we can get you in there. Um, we did some books. Real quick, anything for the kiddos? Anything that you found helpful for the kiddos?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, you know, that's that's something uh kind of touched based on it a little earlier as far as resources and things like that goes. Um so before my wife passed, I had a hospice service um a day before she had passed. And a hospice service come and they helped take care of her, and then they were here to help for the actual process itself. They have been amazing. They have there's you know when people hear the word hospice, they think kind of in the negative manner. Um, but they've been they've been so helpful, they've been so amazing. They have um counselors and group sessions and uh worksheets and workbooks, and I mean they have just so many resources at there available for kids that has been amazing. Um, and then also, and it's gonna sound kind of cliche, but getting your kids outside and playing in parks or going to the Y or being part of a church group. I mean, whatever your jam is, like you said, right? If if there's any way you can get them out of being in the space that they're in currently to try to sort of make them remember their kids, right?

Matt:

Have fun, well, and a sense of normalcy because they they know as we talked about, right? Like they they definitely know their lives aren't normal. I mean, like, even my four-year-old will will talk about, you know, like you know, why why is that so tired? Because most, I can't say most, several houses have a mommy and a daddy doing stuff, and so dad's just do it all of this by himself, and he's doing a lot of it at quarter ass, not even half ass. So, um, but they know like going to the park is normal because they're just a kid at the park, or they're just a kid at uh uh uh Bible class. And after one, my brain just froze from it there, but Bible study or whatever. There are, and I know we're at the end of summer, so I will I will put this in a thing for much, much later, but there are some amazing camps for kids who have lost their their parents to especially. I know there's some amazing ones for cancer specifically. And again, kind of like the other the Megan Devine thing, I have never heard a parent complain about sending their kid to the summer camp where it's either all and it's a requirement, either the parent has to have cancer, like and it's usually pretty bad, or they have to have died. It's like there's no like, well, you know, their stepmom had cancer 10 years ago. It's not that sort of it's that whole different thing. And so like they have to have it, and it's and I have heard and some some kids went when their parents had cancer and are still going post-loss, and it's like this week of everyone gets you on every level. And I want to say one of them, even like the only way you can become a camp counselor is if you've lost a significant other to cancer. So it's it's really amazing, but that's summer, so we'll deal with that later. But I think good point, get them back out and fake normality. It was normal, or what's normal anyway, who knows, right? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

We all that's the thing. I mean, as normal as you can make it. I mean, there's really no normal at this point anymore. But again, if you can somehow make it manageable where they're again, the basis of it all is they're kids, let them be kids and let them have have those moments where they're not worrying about you, they're not worrying about the world, they're just kids. That's the biggest thing I could I could say to for the kids' side of things.

Matt:

Well, and I'm glad you brought up also like there the I know hospice sounds tragic. There's some really great resource sources inside of hospice. Yes, I know this is gonna sound really weird. If you're really struggling and you don't think you can reach out to hospice, you can also call the funeral homes and they will at least have a bead on some stuff, whether it's a therapist or group therapy, or like I talk about the a cancer house, something that will have a resource for your kids. They they it may not be close by, but they will definitely have a beat on something because um we did some family counseling at the wellness house, and it was just really good to have someone else asking the exact same questions you ask as a parent, but the kid feels like they can answer them differently because they know like they don't want to make dad or mom cry. They don't want, right? But the counselor they can make cry, they don't care. So it's that sort of thing too. Like I was in the room when the counselor was asking my older daughter the exact same questions I've been asking, and she's just unloading on this lady. And I'm like, why aren't you? And I'm like, because I'm her dad, right? So um, so I again great, great reference on the hospice thing because a lot of times people feel like hospice is only there for the sounds bad for the moment. Yeah, they're a resource you can go back to. And even again, if you're four months, eight months, a year out, and you're like, my kid is really struggling. Uh definitely start reaching out. And even and all the things we just managed to do, the other groups, reach out, man, because I guarantee you, in one of those groups, someone knows somebody, and it might even be local. They may even be like, hey, is anyone knowing in the Philly area? And you'd be surprised, right? So um, thanks for bringing that up, man. Um, man, it was a pleasure as always to talk to you. I know you and I have had several different conversations now. Yeah. Um, you know, I look forward to staying connected and then uh maybe in the works, possibly this summer, there might be like a solo dad get together where we can all do something dumb.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that'd be great. I'm dumb for being dumb, man. Let's get it.

Matt:

I'm like, what can we go jump off of, blow up, and I don't know, eat too much of and have a good time. Um, right. So and yeah, so I appreciate your time, Adam. I know you got a kiddo to to go get and do your solo dad thing. Yeah. If you think of anything between now and then, shoot me a message. As always, people, thank you for listening. If you can give a review on iTunes, that helps us be found. If you can live any sort of feedback, whether it's uh on Instagram, on the email, which is uh solo dadpodcast at gmail.com, or even in the iTunes review, it will super help us out to let us know any topics you want us to talk about or things you need more information about. So as always, thank you for listening, and uh that's it for solo dead.