The Arterburn Radio Transmission Podcast
The Arterburn Radio Transmission is a blend of cutting edge commentary, fused with guests who are the newsmakers and trailblazers of our time. Your host Tony Arterburn is a former Army paratrooper, entrepreneur, and historian. Tony brings his unique perspective to the issues facing our country, civilization, and planet.
The Arterburn Radio Transmission Podcast
#37 Paratruther- The American Memory Hole with Donald Jeffries
All right, ladies and gentlemen, episode number 37 of Paratruther. I am your host, one of your hosts, Tony Arterburn. I'm joined by Mr Anderson and, on loan from the Smithsonian, his brain. Thank you for transitioning not your sex, but transitioning your reality back over here to Paratruther, Mr Anderson.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you were the Smithsonian. I thought you were talking about Don or something.
Speaker 1:No, I was talking about your brain. I was like are you?
Speaker 2:being an ageist Tony.
Speaker 1:No, don's an American treasure. I think it's beyond. We don't want him hidden away like the nine-foot-tall red-haired giants that were found in the Grand Canyon. We don't want anything like that to happen to Don, but with you. I was debating this earlier. Beans and I went out to get some lunch and I thought should I say he's on loan from Ripley's, believe it or Not, or just the Smithsonian? I decided the Smithsonian. So thank you, welcome back in your brain, sir.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, I miss Ripley's. Believe it or not, I used to go there as a kid. They had one tied to a wax museum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the one in San Antonio was magnificent.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's still there. Can you still put?
Speaker 3:five of those pool balls in your mouth, Tony. I used to read the comic strip when they used to have the Sunday comics, which were a thing back then. Ripley's Believe it or Not, was always a highlight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are the bygone days of that sort of publication. They don't have those publications anymore. You know there's those and you've talked about it too, don, let me introduce Don first, before we start doing a podcast, because I'm so used to talking to don. But, uh, don jeffries, author of hidden history, crimes and cover-ups in american politics 1776 1963, your novel, the unreels, survival of the richest american memory hall, oh and uh, uh, unborrowed fame, another great book I need to. I want to ask you something when we're done with the show, uh, about that book. Um, donald jeffries, one of my mentors, an american treasure, uh, co-host of america, unplugged host of I protest with donald jeffries and many, many other projects and, of course, the new book, american memory hole.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to paratrooper don oh, it's always a pleasure, tony. You're a delightful host. It's very easy talking with you. As you know, we can talk about just about anything.
Speaker 1:Well, we certainly can, and we do, by the way. Well, I want to jump into this. I've planned on having you on the show since you released this book and this is like a companion book to Hidden History and one of the books that I go back to to refresh myself, you know, as far as my mind, and continuing to integrate the history, especially that you've laid out through your life's work, to help me understand the current reality. But American Memory Hole is, you know, from JFK assassination 9-11, joe McCarthy, all these, just again, things that you've talked about in previous books but really expanded on, and I wanted to get your take on what prompted this and maybe what comes next and some of the highlights.
Speaker 3:Well, thanks for always the kind words, but this is kind of a. It's basically the third volume of Hidden History. You know, skyhorse didn't want to call Crimes and Cover-Ups Hidden History 2, but I wanted to I don't know why and I wanted to call this Hidden History 3, and they didn't want to. So they obviously don't like the numbers in there. But that's what it is, and it's a combination of Hidden History and Crimes and Cover-Ups, because Crimes and Cover-Ups was the prequel to Hidden History.
Speaker 3:Hidden History went from the JFK assassination up through the Obama years. I mean, donald Trump's name doesn't appear because he hadn't entered politics yet. That's how quickly he's taken over. As you're talking about 10 years. He's taken over the world. He was so irrelevant. You know I wasn't even mentioning him back then. And you have the.
Speaker 3:Crimes and Cover-Ups took the earlier period, from the beginning of the Republic, the war for independence, all the way through the 1950s, and so this book combines both. So we go back to the, we talk a little bit more about the war. We talk about the judicial review, which you know you've heard me talk a lot about that. I stress that a lot because I think it's very important now. So we talk about Jefferson's fight against the judicial review at the dawn of the Republic. More about that. I stress that a lot because I think it's very important now we talk about Jefferson's fight against judicial review at the dawn of the republic. More about Lincoln.
Speaker 3:We went into the war with Mexico and Polk Not that I would ever be unfair to Lincoln because I think I've been very honest about his tyranny but Polk probably deserves the credit, I think, for the first overstepping the balance. And we have lots of incidents in there how the troops are acting pretty much like they would act under Sherman and Sheridan and Grant, so they were already kind of committing atrocities. There's a couple unreported Indian atrocities in there and you know, peter C Koch did such a great job helping me to research this and Chris Graves was great on the later aspects of NIDIL because we did a lot more in Oklahoma City 9-11, jfk Jr he was very, you know, indispensable that stuff. So it combines both aspects of it. And, as you mentioned, joe McCarthy, we do a lot more there to try to restore his reputation and we, you know, blast FDR a little bit more too and he should be credited with advancing, you know, inventing cancel culture, among other things.
Speaker 1:It's funny you mentioned and I'm doing this off the cuff, but years ago I watched an interview with Jeb Bush and he goes, you know, and I want to say I'm right on this, I'm pretty sure I am. He says you know, I'm related to James K Polk. He's like that's one of my ancestors, and I thought well of course not yeah sure.
Speaker 1:Credit to Lincoln for the Mexican-American War. It cost him his term in Congress. He was a one-term congressman, if I'm not mistaken. Because of that, he lost. Because of his opposition. He wanted a bill passed through Congress to mark the spot where the Mexican army had fired on Americans. He wanted to actually to throw them to prove it, or something like that. Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Well, lincoln, lincoln, his comments on that and he was, he was, you know, very right to be opposed to that Should have come back to haunt him 20 years later, or less than 20 years later, and when you know he, he had a, you know, certainly an even more egregious situation where you had states actually wanting to leave the union, which they should have been able to do because, again, we were founded on the concept of consent of the government and these southern states no longer consented. So, lincoln, you know, he basically went back on everything he said about the war with Mexico, and I guess he didn't sense the irony. But he's hardly the first politician to do that. As you know, we're, we see that all the time today, with Trump and the Democrats, I mean, they just shamelessly, without blushing, you know, just literally say the same thing. They were criticizing, you know, the week before, or something.
Speaker 1:Another figure that was opposed to that war, the Mexican American war, was Grant. He was in it, he really tested it. And then both of those figures coming together in the 1860s to become this tyrannical force to command that army, the Army of Northern Aggression. That's a far leap from where they were. Most people don't know that.
Speaker 2:I love Don's books because there was always aspects and details I never knew that are just really so interesting. I never forget, but I didn't know about Frank Key Howard and what Lincoln did to him. Can you explain that?
Speaker 3:I think a lot, yeah, well, yeah, I think very few Americans know that, but every time you hear the Star-Spangled Banner, and every time Colin Kaepernick or somebody doesn't kneel for it, remember Frank E Howard. This is Francis Scott Key's grandson. I think he was a newspaper editor, but he did something. He was opposed to Lincoln's policies as anybody with any common sense were. The guy suspended the writ of habeas corpus. He shut down over 200 newspapers.
Speaker 3:Frank E Howard, he wasn't really an american icon. I guess maybe they'd already forgotten who he was, but um, he was. He was, uh, locked up like untold thousands of others in northern as well, we don't know how many thrown into a makeshift prison, I think january 6th, but without, you know, without, well, they didn't have any due process either. So it's not that much different. But you know at least, at least biden didn't. You know, without well, they didn't have any due process either. So it's not that much different. But you know at least, at least Biden didn't, you know, officially suspend the rent of Hades Corpus like Lincoln did, but same kind of thing. Throw him in there without charges, and he was thrown into Fort McKendree of all places, and that's the great historical.
Speaker 3:And I don't know if Lincoln. Hey, maybe Lincoln did it on purpose, I don't know. Maybe he said do that. You know who knows Lincoln. You know loves to tell jokes and maybe thought it was funny, but you know that's where Francis Scott Key wrote the Star-Spangled Banner. You know he wrote it while you know from Fort McHenry Prison, so as the flag flew over the prison.
Speaker 3:So probably not one in a million Americans would know that story and Probably not one in a million Americans would know that story. And so that's why I think my books are valuable, because it really is deep, hidden history. I mean, some of these things I didn't know. I discovered that reading American Bastille or one of the books that were written in the 1870s or so about Lincoln's tyrannical policies that were allowed to be published then. But yeah, just disgraceful what happened to him. And it should be. But again, already by then you could see when Lincoln rewrote. He rewrote the history books because you had new heroes. When Lincoln was born, suddenly Lincoln and Grant and all these horrible people became the new heroes, and later, especially conservative types would equate Lincoln with Jefferson and Washington, which is ridiculous because the founding fathers except for Hamilton, he probably would have loved them because we know how he is as a black rapper on Broadway, the banker's favorite.
Speaker 3:But everyone else would have hated him and Jefferson definitely would have despised him, because Lincoln despised Jefferson.
Speaker 2:Right, even Ulysses S Grant's wife, right, didn't she refuse to give up her slave after the war?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and Grant made one of the great comments of all time. It's so hard to find good help. You can hear Thurston B Howe from Gilligan's Island saying it's so hard to find good help. You know, make sure the boy's saying that.
Speaker 2:There's a Family Guy snippet Tony reminded me of about that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they make fun of Lincoln. It's on Family Guy and their neighbors. You know it's like you're more disappointed than Lincoln's neighbor and Lincoln steps outside and he puts on his hat and his neighbors looking at him crossways and his yard's all grown up and Lincoln says you ought to get that cut or something like that. And the guy says I used to have a guy for that dick. And Lincoln says you ought to get that cut or something like that.
Speaker 3:And the guy says I used to have a guy for that dick so funny.
Speaker 1:That's the dark humor of that. Yeah, that kind of goes in that vein and that's the thing I mean. Obviously, you know, we can laugh about it, but it's a tragic thing that happened in this country where you have these people that are lionized today for supposedly and I love gore vidal for this, you know gore vidal had that famous uh, he came out and just called lincoln out on this stuff he's, you know, he said and, and he, he wrote a narrative history on lincoln's life, but he made sure to emphasize that quote from lincoln. He is if I could free, if I could save the Republic and free the slaves, I would. If I could save the Republic and free half of the slaves, I would. If I could, you know, save the Republic and free none of the slaves, I would.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That was not his mission.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, that's a telling thing. Like we talk about Lincoln's first inaugural address, I think he mentioned the word slavery three times, three, four times maybe, but uh, nowhere was it in context. This is what we're fighting and I think that's where the quote came about saving, saving the republican, no matter what. And he also talked about I, I do, I have no intention of interfering in slavery. Where it presently is this, and I don't believe I have a right to, a conscientious right to. So you know he's a lot of people were upset, they thought his inaugural address was actually very, you know, kind of warlike or, you know, taunting the people, but in retrospect it was nothing like what happened afterwards. So yeah, lincoln, everything about Lincoln, is Thomas D Lorenzo, who inspired me a lot on this. He wrote Lincoln Unmasked and the Real Lincoln. He was the first guy really in modern times to go out on a limb and call. You know, lincoln was a hero of mine, like he was everybody else, you know, and it's hard not to you know, because Lincoln was.
Speaker 3:He was really kind of a poet. He was a beautiful writer, really kind of a poet. He was a beautiful writer. He came up with Malice Towards None and the Better Angels of Our Nature. Even four score. And seven years ago he had a way where he took unusual words and put them in something. So people, I mean, has anybody else said score? I didn't even know what the hell score was, but that kind of thing where he used those the Better Angels of Our Nature, I use that a lot, just kind of thing. Where he used those the better angels of our nature. I use that a lot, just kind of you know, ironically. But yeah, beautiful words, but unfortunately is it was an ugly reality.
Speaker 3:And we look at the situation around us today. I always go back to Lincoln because I think he's the main person that's responsible for it. He was the first Imperial president. So anything you see the people that hate Trump or hate any of the president, they see him trying to do this. Lincoln was the first one to overstep his constitutional authority and if anyone had complained at the ACLU, which I was a card-carrying member of when I was a teenager in the early 20s, back in the Stone Age, when they actually cared about civil liberties, if ACLU was around today and had protested the treatment of the January 6th prisoners being denied all due process, undoubtedly the government would have cited Lincoln's precedent. There's no question about it. I mean, they were citing Lincoln under George W Bush. As for the treatment of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, so he's our greatest president, though that's what the court historians say.
Speaker 1:I remember Dick Cheney reading the Gettysburg Address, warming up to speak at the 2004 Republican National Convention. I just, I was just eyeing that I thought, wow, you took something beautiful. But you're right, they had such a way with words. I remember reading something about him because he wrote that poem on suicide and it was like anonymously published or something like that, and it was never you know it was only linked to him later, but they said his law partner was it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he said that Lincoln. He dripped melancholy, like everything was he's just so melancholy. I think that was one of the reasons why he was able to summon those kind of words. It was deep feelings and things that he had. But yeah, it's just, it's hard not to see him without you know, with John Wilkes Booth not in the picture, it's hard to imagine him only doing two terms too.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I think that with the, certainly the, I think he would have beaten, beaten Roosevelt to the punch there, because there was nothing in the constitutional limits. You to two terms, as FDR found out. So, and maybe Donald Trump is arguing about it now. But, yeah, I mean, in the Gettysburg addresses. I mean it's a magnificent address, it's beautiful, it is poetry and I think HL Megan described this. This is poetry but it's not reality. And you know the whole idea. And again, we consider Lincoln the greatest president and most historians consider the Gettysburg Address not JFK's peace speech at American University, which I would argue is the greatest speech ever by an American president. But they would argue that, and but if you look at it, if it been true, it would have been great. But he was arguing the inverse of reality, because he was talking about, he was trying to stop people. You know, government of the people, by the people and for the people, because that's the southerners, don't?
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter, even if you take slavery into it, I don't think slavery had anything. I don't think that was obviously I had. You know, as General Grant famously said, if you know, if I thought I was fighting to stop slavery, I'd hang my sword up right now. I mean I had to. I mean his wife's still at a slave and didn't want to give it up, you know, years after the Emancipation Proclamation. So they weren't you know whatever.
Speaker 3:I don't think they were fighting for slavery, it was definitely states rights and the power of the uh federal government. I think that's why they called themselves the confederacy, because they probably liked the articles confederation, which most of the people that support me get kind of upset a lot of times when I talk about the constitution favorably. You know they, they, uh, you know they and I and I, I agree, the articles of federation confederacy probably were better. Certainly they gave the government a lot less power. But at any rate, it doesn't matter what slavery. Whatever slavery is legal at the time is as horrible as that seems to us, and it's legal some places now because we have 40 main slaves in the world today. Nobody seems bothered by it. But, um, I don't know why, if slavery is the bad thing, but um, when, um, sorry, go ahead. No, no, you go ahead, you go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, I have lost my train of thought, so go ahead. You came at the perfect time.
Speaker 2:Sorry about that. I was just going to say. Another thing that kind of bothers me as I've grown older about Lincoln is he's always depicted as this very convicted Christian type of character. But I mean, before he entered politics he wrote like this scathing rebuttal to the New Testament. That is, I think his friends urged him to burn Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it just seems like something a charlatan would do. I mean either own, your views or rescind them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, really. And I understand it. Probably would have been hard in the 1860s to come out openly as an atheist in politics. Understand it, probably would have been hard in the 1860s to come out openly as an atheist in politics. But, um, the least he could have done was not blame god, who he didn't believe in, for the war, and that's what lincoln did like.
Speaker 3:Lincoln didn't again, he barely mentioned slavery in the inaugural address two years or so, I think, the emancipation proclamation in 1863, so maybe so, um, so a couple years into the war it wasn't going well because the South had much better generals and I'm not a military expert, but Stonewall Jackson was about as good as we've ever had. The North had drunks like Grant and barbaric clowns like Sherman and Sheridan, and all of them other than McClellan. Their entire strategy was a war of attrition and even Lincoln's wife was upset about that. She called Grant the Beast, said he gets so many of his men killed. It's terrible. And obviously her husband didn't care. But the South was just much better. So they were able to hold their own with the North for a long time and eventually the numbers situation was too much for them.
Speaker 3:But Lincoln tried to appeal to the world, to Great Britain, places like that. So he thought, well, I'll take a moral posture here. I'll say you know, this is about slavery. So he made it about slavery with the Emancipation Proclamation, even though, as his own Secretary of State, john Seward, told him, this is meaningless. You free the slaves where you have no power, because the South doesn't recognize your jurisdiction anymore, and you're not freeing them in the North, like General Grantsway's slave, for instance. So he clearly, you know he had made comments and I quoted them in crimes and cover-ups that would, you know, make the leader of the Grand Wizard of the KKK blush, you know, in his youth. But to be fair to him, probably 99% of whites felt the same way back then. So he wasn't unusual in that regard. It's not like Lincoln was, you know, a racist by the standards of his day.
Speaker 3:But once he put that on a moral compass, and then the last year or two of the war, he began this weird thing, and again he uses great flowery language because he was good at that. But where he starts blaming God, he said this is, you know, this is the will of the Almighty, that you know, and it's which is. He didn't blame God. So what kind? I mean, what kind of right? Charlotte is a perfect word, mr Anderson, but I mean the idea that it's just such a tragedy that almost a million Americans and and most people now think that the 600,000 was downplayed and it was probably 800,000 or more actually that died in the war.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's just such a tragedy, brother against brother. And it's more relevant than ever now when we look around us, because we could be facing that situation again, because if we had another civil war today it would be even more so. Civil war today it would be even more so. You know, husband against wife more like you know and parents against children and brother against brother, because we're just way more divided than we were back then. So I think it's more relevant than ever to look at what that war was really about, how senseless it was and how it took.
Speaker 3:You know it was responsible for so many things. It was responsible for separate but equal and Jim Crow crow, as ron paul said, it created almost 100 years of real racism. And that was all created because of the reconstruction afterwards. You know I've written a lot about that in my books as well. Historians just gloss over, you know had military occupation of the south and the things they did were they and they set the freed slaves on me, the mansions, and told them this belongs to you and basically pointing to all the women, they belong to you, those are yours, and they did all that and that's just a horrible thing to do, especially the people. These were upper class people, the plantation. They were very proud people and imagine that suddenly this is their reality. So I just think that you know historians are never going to look at that accurately because again it comes down that whole era comes down to slavery. That's it, nothing else. Lincoln was great because he freed the slaves and that's that's the way they look at it.
Speaker 2:Right. More Americans died in the Civil War, especially with the more conservative numbers, even those that you were quoting than world war one and two combined, pretty much yes, I mean I mean you lose perspective of that. When I was younger I I didn't think of it that way and think of how they died too. Oh, yeah, horrible in that in the stomach proportionally.
Speaker 1:Just if you were adjusted for population, it would be so catastrophic compared to, like modern numbers you know, as far as percentage of population that was lost, to be in the millions. You know, and that's that's how shocking. That was the bloodiest war in the West for the 19th century. The Chinese had one at the exact same time and it was millions. It was a lot larger as far as deaths, but the Civil War for the United States was the was the bloodiest of the 19th century for the West, and I pointed out before, that's where you get from Memorial Day.
Speaker 1:Memorial Day used to be called Decoration Day, and that was when you would go and decorate the graves of people that were lost during the Civil War, and so that was a yearly event, and one of the things that that did is it reminded people every spring about the war and their loved ones that were lost, and so we didn't have another war until those, until that age group, that generation, started to lose, leave power, like it was um the last world war ii or two.
Speaker 1:Last civil war veteran was william mckinley and um he damn near had a stroke because they wanted to have him go to war with Spain, but he didn't want to go to war and they just pushed him and pushed him basically almost to a nervous breakdown. It might be one of the reasons why they got rid of him. He was so hesitant to go to war because of what he'd seen. And I'd point out many times Decoration Day, what became Memorial Day, that was 1865 to 1898. And we had internal wars, of course, the Manifest Destiny, all that stuff, the westward push and war against Native Americans, but that was about it and we didn't have the external wars until 1898. And that was a different generation. So it was catastrophic, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, and that's what happens. And certainly 1898 was another huge line in the sand we crossed there. As you mentioned, mckinley was reluctant and I do think you know it probably had something to do with his assassination, and he had a very aggressive vice president comments on the record than you know, thomas Jefferson, especially because Thomas Jefferson left no comments on the record like that. But TR isn't considered racist. But he never met a war he didn't love.
Speaker 3:I will give him credit for walking the walk though, because he was ready to go charge up some new San Juan Hill in World War I at his age. He wanted to do it again, so at least he did like to be in the action. I guess that says something for somebody. He wasn't a chicken hawk. But McKinley, I think again, was more of a Taylor Caldwell forgotten novelist who read the Captains and the Kings and other books. The Spotlight back in the day before it became American Free Press, they used to talk about her a lot and talk about her books. I read some of them because of that great writer, and she has a scene in Captain I think it's Captain of the Kings where she speculates that that McKinley was killed because he was so reluctant to take that huge cross, that line in the sand where we first went in search of foreign monsters to destroy, as john quincy adams warned us against no, I it's.
Speaker 1:Uh, it certainly makes sense, and I believe the guy that shot him his name I think his name was cholgosh, off the top of my head, as I can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know how you pronounce that. Yeah, leon, leon Cholzgos, I think yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's very similar to the, to the character they used for the Archduke Ferdinand, like the same kind of beliefs and like this was Serbian anarchist group, you know, like this. And then the same kind of thing with this Cholgos figure. He wrapped his pistol up in like a cast and got really close to him but, like McKinley, lingered on for days, you know, yeah, yeah, he didn't die right away and then, you know, might have been, certainly the doctors might be responsible. I think he had like sepsis or something it was. It's pretty horrific yeah really sad.
Speaker 1:And of course you get teddy, you know, and he did walk the walk um, but that during that time, like he was under secretary of the Navy, just like his, his future, you know, the cousin FDR would be for one and then going into his same career pattern, by the way. But he, except for FDR, didn't get over into the war. Teddy did. Teddy was his wife Edith like sick, possibly on her deathbed. He's like I got to go, I got to get in this war and so yeah, he really did walk the walk. At least give him credit for that. But he didn't see many wars, he didn't like.
Speaker 2:I think one time he tracked down three guys who had stolen horses, just as a civilian, well before he was president, and spent all night tracking them down. And yeah, yeah, he was crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was, he was, uh, he was macho. There's no doubt about that. He was a man's man, but uh, you know, I I don't uh, and there's some, you know, there's some things to to like about him, but again, just, he was kind of exaggerated because andrew jackson, who I like very much, uh was a populist in many ways, but he, he also liked war way too much for my taste and uh, so that kind of ruins it for me, because I like everything else about jackson. We fought the banks but uh, he, he would have, he would have never wanted a man war he didn't like either, I have a feeling, because he loved war so much. I don't know what he would have done with the war between the states, because obviously he was a southerner, but I don't know, I know he would have enjoyed fighting it, however old he was, but I don't know, I'm not sure how he would have felt Because he might have wanted to punish the Confederates. I don't know, who knows.
Speaker 1:So, if I'm correct on this, don, I think his first term, jackson's first term wasn't his vice president, john C Calhoun. I think so. Yeah, that's true. Yes, and of was something. Calhoun was doing something in South Carolina. That's where he's from, correct?
Speaker 1:And it was something that Jackson basically said we're going to hang some traitors. You know the president, that's how he was going to put down like there was a, there was an inkling of a rebellion and this could have come out of that was you know you talk about like the tariffs, that was the tariff of abominations and that kind of time period and all the things that were going on because this North was industrializing. No, you're right, it's hard to see Jackson not keeping the union together. He was very much the same thing with Sam Houston, which was his protege, and Houston didn't believe in the Confederacy. As a matter of fact, it cost him his governorship in Texas, and you know that's one. And JFK wrote about him in Profiles in Courage because of that, because of his stance on being pro-union. So possibly probably would have done something similar to Lincoln, I imagine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, no, I think so, and so it's. You know, if you've got to pick and choose from these guys, I think you know they're good. And I still love Jefferson because I think most of it. But I think Jefferson definitely would have been. Probably most of the founders would have been on the side of the Confederacy, but Jefferson had to have been because, I mean, again, he just. I mean, mean, how many things did he put out there? Whenever you grow tired of this government, you have a right to alter, abolish it. I mean, he made it very clear he would have been appalled at what happened. I mean he would. He probably would have been, you know, he would have been robert e lee's place. Probably if, uh, if he'd been, you know, young enough to do it, but uh, but yeah, it's just a shame. You know americans are historically illiterate.
Speaker 3:Mr anderson referred to some of the things he didn't know. I mean, I and I, as I'm researching this stuff, or peter and chris are researching it for me I'm discovering amazing stuff and they send me something. Even I, sometimes even I, had to make sure it's sourced, make sure it's correct, because, uh, some of it is unbelievable and and, uh, it's, but it's. I don't know why I should feel that way, because we look at today's news and everything and you see the things that happen and you know, maybe in a couple hundred years people look back and say they couldn't believe that either.
Speaker 1:I'm sure the truth is stranger than fiction. That's why I love history, I love your work and definitely brings a lot to light. You cover a lot on the Civil War and we definitely I think we've touched on that here let's talk about because of time constraints, let's talk about Joe McCarthy, another fascinating bit of history in the American memory that a lot of people don't truly grasp. What's your take on tail gunner Joe?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think again, I think he's. I mean, I was always predisposed to like him. I mean years ago I was. I was a far left winger and then I, then I, I started, you know, I accidentally read Gary Allen's none dare call a conspiracy. I thought it was a JFK book and and I said, wow, this is completely different. And I, it turned my world around because it's CFR and UN and all that stuff. And I said John Birch Society and I said this is wow and I would look up the membership of the CFR and stuff. But you know, so, mccarthy, you know one of the books I got back then I saw her ordering left-wing books at a place called Camelot Book Services in California. You get subversive material there. And they get even more subversive material from Metairie, louisiana. They have a thing called Sons of Liberty. So I ordered a lot of stuff there. That's where I discovered Eustace Mullins and people like that and they had a, you know, I think, somebody. I have it around here somewhere.
Speaker 3:Why was Joe McCarthy murdered, or something like that? So I read about it and I said, well, that's really interesting. And that's when I discovered Jim Forrestal, james Forrestal who was McCarthy's close friend and McCarthy wrote a book or pamphlet about the murder of James Forrestal. I mean, he directly accused the government of killing him and then, ironically, you know, after they pushed Forrestal out of a high-rise window at Bethesda Naval Hospital, a couple of years later McCarthy went in there with a knee issue and at age 48, he was dead two days later. No autopsy ever done and they still don't know what killed him. They just basically attacked him in the press and Drew Pearson and young Jack Anderson, this awful alleged journalist they just accused, basically said he was a drunk and that the alcoholism killed him and all that which he had no proof of. That. It's ridiculous. So if you look at Trump and you see, like what happened to Jim Garrison as well, you know to some degrees. But if you look at the way McCarthy was treated, especially posthumously because he's now you know his name refers to an entire era. There was a witch hunt in the 50s for commies and the Reds, but McCarthy wasn't leading it. I mean because basically it was the House Un-American Activities Committee. They blame McCarthy for the Hollywood blacklist when he had nothing to do with. He. Was a member of the Senate. He wasn't on the House Un-American Activities Obviously. So it should be jay parnell thomas or that, or jay parnell roberts, whatever his name was. That should be the guy. That should, should his have his name in the history books. If you're gonna, you know, call it. But mccarthy isn't.
Speaker 3:And mccarthy was a well-meaning patriot. I think he was naive. Uh, he was, as you said, tail gunner, joe. He was a, you know, he again I. I think world war I II is as dumb as all the other wars, but, no doubting his heroism, he was a tail gunner. I mean, he was a fighter pilot and he was getting in the back of those planes and shooting down enemy planes and it sounds pretty courageous to me, you know. So I would call him just as I call JFK. You know what he did with PT-109.
Speaker 3:These were real heroes, even though I don't support, I think they were. You know it was again another misguided effort just ended up in just people, you know, senselessly losing their lives. But McCarthy was a hero, however you look at it, and he, like a lot of people that era. He was concerned with the communist influence and he was impacted on that, and you with the communist influence and he was impacted on that. And you know, nixon and people like that weren't it, but in a different way.
Speaker 3:Mccarthy, you know, was a real believer and mccarthy had decent press until he started looking into the army, and that's what you know and that's mostly what he did even look into hollywood. And and you see in the book, most of that came from peter's great research where we uh discovered, you know he was, he was the first Pearl Harbor conspiracy theorist, apparently, or one of the first, because he was basically questioning that in public. You know, saying that, you know, obviously FDR had to know he was one of the I think he was the first one who, again, this was a guy who fought the Nazis and, you know, was a real war hero, but he was even after the war he started talking about the atrocious manner in which some of these Germans were treated. I have a thing in the book I forget what it was called, but it's in American Memory Hall where he made some great comments saying just because they're the enemy, it doesn't give us the right to treat them like that. And plus, you know I'm a Kennedy fanboy.
Speaker 3:He was a great friend of Joe Kennedy Sr, who I think is one of the unrecognized patriots of the 20th century. He was a godfather to Kathleen Kennedy, rfk's oldest child. Although they've tried to throw that down the memory hole but there's way too many references to it. He was their godfather and he dated, I think, a couple of the Kennedy sisters. He was a good family friend. Now when they became very liberal, especially later, they tried to gloss that over, but they actually remained faithful to them in their way, like jfk very notably managed to be out of the senate absence of the senate when they voted to censor mccarthy because he didn't, you know, he didn't want to go against a family friend, but I guess he didn't want to hurt him politically either. But um, you know, people can read what we have in there and he he was.
Speaker 3:He was going into areas he kind of alluded to. You know, peter thinks he was alluding to UFO type things at Montauk and he had an inquisitive mind. And if you look at what else was going on in the 1950s, this was not just a simple commie hunt, he was. I mean, why should, whoever it was, would we be concerned that there had been, you know, nazis in high levels of the government? Well, actually, yes, there were. You know Operation Paperclip. I don't care about that In terms of these were apparently Soviet agents. Herod, dexter, white had been back at JFK. If they're supposed to be our enemy and we're spending all that kind of money. Mccarthy had every right to say why would you have our enemies in government? That would be like now if they could be proved that dual citizenship or something right. Our enemies in government? That would be like now if they could be proved.
Speaker 3:You know that um adult citizenship or something right imagine that oh, that would never happen but I mean if they could prove like members of isis or something, you know that we're? We're sitting in high positions in the army, you know we have. You know, was it dav zakheim from the bush rabbi dav zakheim and other israeli citizens that have held high positions in our military and nobody seems to care about that. But on the surface at least, israel is supposed to be our ally, but the Russians were supposed to be, the Soviets were supposed to be our arch enemy then. So that was a huge scandal If you can prove that these guys were in upper levels of government. So you understand why Truman and Eisenhower too I mean both parties hated McCarthy. You know theyccarthy, you know they just, you know you thank trump, but on a, you know this is what guys actually trying to do something. So well, sorry, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I don't know where it's going I was just gonna say, um, something else about jfk, because that's somebody when I was younger. I mean, there were just always these provocative details people would tell you about oh, he was an adulterer and he was hooked on pain meds. Dr Feelgood had to follow him around, but I think he was probably the last president we've had that I would really have liked to be president. But something I didn't know again that you pointed out in your book was you know JFK's letter to his dad that he wrote at 22,. You know close to a decade before the formation of Israel, and maybe you can comment on that and you know the concerns he had about the formation of a Zionist state, even at 22.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it's a remarkable letter to his father and it you know it does at the beginning of it makes it very obvious that the subject of the Jews was something that they talked about in the house. There's no question about it. I mean the way he's kind of an insider conversation to his father and we know Joe Kennedy obviously didn't help his political career, but behind the scenes he was very. I mean remember he was in Hollywood too so obviously saw a lot of Jewish influence there. So he was concerned about this and he spoke his mind. He was a very outspoken guy so and he was, you know, he was the mentor for his children. The mother was kind of invisible. So whatever they were for, good or bad, it was from Joe Kennedy's senior. He was very hands-on father, especially considering that time period and how his income level a one percenter in the 1920s and 1930s, I mean to be that hands-on as a father was astounding. But he was, and so you can see that in JFK's words. But the analysis is brilliant. I mean he's 22 years old and he pretty much predicts what's going to happen if within and it did happen within eight years or something, and he talks about what a disaster this is going to be, but he analyzes the Arab situation. He analyzed would happen if the jews came there and they had a zionist homeland.
Speaker 3:People would read it. It's, it's, it's available. I think it's at the boston uh, you know jfk library in boston, I think, but maybe they don't realize, um, what's in it. But I I'm astonished that jfk has not. He's been smeared with so many things. You mentioned the nonsense like Dr Feelgood and the mob and all this crazy stuff that mostly has to do with his father. It's all imaginary, it all comes from CIA and mafia sources, but they've never said anything about him being anti-Semitic, which is amazing. Because that letter alone, I think you know, by their standards, shows that God here's, jfk and his dad talking a lot about Jewish power and everything. And you know, by their standards, shows a guy here's, jfk and his dad talking a lot about Jewish power and everything, and you know so it's. I don't know why they haven't done that. I guess it's a good thing, but they certainly. As you said, mr Anderson, as a young guy reading about him, I can tell you it wasn't always that way and he was martyred after he died, kind of like Lincoln, but the martyrship didn't last very long, you know, because, and just like Lincoln, they didn't look into his death, you know, and they covered up the circumstances of his death. But in the mid-1970s, after about 10-year honeymoon period or so, that's when Judith Campbell Exner came out of the shadows and with her ridiculous, you know, uncredible story and the rest is history.
Speaker 3:Now, people, you know, the kennedys are like no other family, especially no other democratic party family. You're never going to find the kind of books, what was it? Uh, the crazy margaret callahan who I wrote about in american memory hall. Who's just she? You know, she must have had the, you know, the hots for one of the kennedys or something, because she talks like a spurned lover, she hates them so much and it's so personal with her, but now she's got a book. Um, I think it's called ass, not that. And again, it's just an attack on jfk, attack on the kennedys, the familiar arguments and, uh, with a new emphasis on rfk jr, because she was especially attacking him when he was running for president. But, uh, you're never going to see, that would never happen to, for instance, fdr and we talk about in america.
Speaker 3:And I remember when, again, peter discovered that I think it was? Uh, was it archibald roosevelt? I forget what son is, what james, rather what. It was the same guy that was flying behind joe kennedy jr. And you know, when this plane blew up in a nonsensical bombing mission where they had, you know they had abandoned the target site. So you tell me why you would send somebody out to bomb something that wasn't there any longer. But we had to rely on Roosevelt. He was the closest one.
Speaker 3:Maybe it was Elliot Roosevelt who so his testimony? This is what happens. Who knows what really happened? He could have shot him down for all I know. I'm not saying that, but who knows, he was the only witness.
Speaker 3:But this guy, elliot Roosevelt, I think he was a character we talk about American memory hole. He was tied in with all these disreputable figures. He was just personally as corrupt as hell and I forget the circumstances of it, but it's an American memory hole. But you're not going to see any Margaret Callahan types write about the Roosevelt family like that. And that guy was way more corrupt than any Kennedy family or Ruff ought to be. You're not going to even LBJ. Somebody is crude and just on the surface so corrupt, so morally bankrupt, he gets way better press from the court historians than JFK does. It's only JFK and he's the only one whose head that blew off. So I think you can do the math. But I mean it's why I continue to be attracted by them, because the Kennedys are the only family that has a huge body count, but it consists of their bodies, not their enemies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Tony has a really funny story that Ralph Hall told him about LBJ.
Speaker 1:Does Don know?
Speaker 2:that story? Oh, I've mentioned to him before you talked about LBJ. Does Don know that story?
Speaker 1:Oh, I've mentioned to him before. You talked about the graveyard story, oh yeah, oh yeah, my friend. Congressman Ralph Hall. Yeah, he was a state senator in Texas at the time, you know, and LBJ was vice president and they went and you know they would visit and they were close, you know. But he told him go on that back road and write all those names down and come back and see me. And Ralph asked him why did you have me do that? He said Ralph, they deserved a vote too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, that really happened.
Speaker 1:He's the first one that brought out the dead and they've been a solid voting bloc since then. I've got Mr Anderson. I'm going to have to cut my mic off for just a second. You talk to Don, because I've got a train coming by. It will bleed out the audio, so hold on to me about a minute and a half, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so, don. Maybe you could talk about I think it's chapter 8 in your book the 70s and the 90s and kind of the Reagan era 1986, and the 90s and kind of the reagan era 1986 and the slow american deterioration um sure particularly about reagan in 1986 and how he botched the the whole illegal immigration thing with suffered into the mass amnesty right, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3:And there's many parallels between reagan and trump in some ways. In terms of ways, reagan had never had a cult like trump had, but he had earnest supporters and that would result later in them. You know there's an airport near me that's reagan national now, uh, naming a bunch of stuff after him and that's the kind of stuff the republicans wanted to keep up with the democrats. But an examination of his air and I wrote in there not only I mean embassy was embassy. That was the chance when we had something to do. We had a chance to do something about it in 1986. It was a relatively new problem, could have been easily managed. But, as I point out in the book, if you read and I was again, even I did most of that research, on my own, I think. But even I was, you know, surprised to see how he had been such an open borders advocate his whole life. So he didn't even pretend to want to do anything about immigration.
Speaker 3:Yet again, his people like you see the Trump cult. They somehow thought that he was going to do something. He was, and he told him over and over and he wasn't. You know he talked about, in fact, he was the first one. I think that was that we may have started the you know they're doing jobs that Americans won't do, and I have the quote in there from the book. I think he used it at the farm workers, maybe or something, but he was the first one pretty much to say you know, you Americans are too lazy. You know we have to get these foreigners that are just you know, coincidence, that we're paying them nothing. You know we had to get them in there to do it.
Speaker 3:But, uh, so many bad things about reagan I mean just the things, you know, the supreme court under him, the burger court, which is thought of as a conservative court, terrible decisions, and one of the most disastrous was, uh, in the early 80s, to uh, to uh permit, uh, the children of the legal immigrants to have a public education. So that's when this got me just. And again, there was almost no outcry from the conservatives. Nobody, you know, blamed reagan or nobody. Nobody said oh, we got to replace people in the court. This is an outrage.
Speaker 3:And again, I didn't notice it, then you know, because I wasn't paying that much attention to it. I was a young guy and uh. But, um, you know the idea that, uh, that this happened under reagan, the amnesty happened under re and again they use the same excuse with Reagan that they use with Trump. The Democrats, the dirty doggone, devilish Democrats. They fooled him, the dirty dogs. They didn't do what they promised, it's like.
Speaker 2:Fool me once. Shame on me.
Speaker 3:Exactly, yeah, so apparently Reagan wasn't too smart and Trump isn't too smart, because they're always getting fooled by these devious Democrats. But that was just horrible. And I remember the time I worked with the Chinese guy. It was, you know, I worked with the United Nations back then but this guy was great and he, he just kept going around us as stupid Reagan was. He kept. He pronounced his name like Lincolnincoln lincoln, he was trying to say reagan, but um, he was so mad about it, you know, as a chinese immigrant, because he said it's so stupid they're going to bring over all their families. And I said, yeah, too bad, you're not in the government. But, um, and of course they did, and that, that was it. That was it. And nobody, certainly george, and george bush was not going to do anything about it. Clinton was not going to do anything about it. So that was your last chance.
Speaker 2:And California tried Right In 94 with Prop 187.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, exactly, and you saw and I talk about that a lot that judicial review, that that goes into judicial review. Which another point in the book where you know they did try a different, california overwhelmingly passed Prop 187, which would have done the sensible thing that our government doesn't seem able to do, and that is tie any kind of government benefits to citizenship status so you can't get any government benefits if you're not here. Legally it's a very common sense thing. I don't know why the Republicans can't seem to figure that out, but the citizens did then. But it didn't matter because under judicial review, what happened? It went to a federal judge who and seems like all these federal judges are all the same I never hear about a federal judge making a good decision. But uh, this federal judge uh said no, unconstitutional, so that's it. So one guy, one unelected guy, thwarted the will of millions and millions of people, of voters, and that's judicial review in a nutshell. And Lincoln, I mean Lincoln Trump, is discovering that now with his executive orders, where just one federal judge answered the other and said, no, can't do that, no, can't do that, and that's. You know, it's unfortunate, but yeah, a lot of this stuff goes back to Reagan those two things, and certainly I talk about asset forfeiture and that really exploded under Reagan SWAT teams, all kinds of horrible things happened under Reagan Again, because the right was enamored with, really enamored with, the police and law enforcement back then and we saw that kind of come to fruition in the 90s with Ruby Ridge and Waco and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But they enabled that and they still do. And this is the problem I try to tell conservatives all the time. You know the Trump people is like you know your boy loves the police. He doesn't think they can ever do anything wrong. And you guys were out there on January 6th. If you still think the police are on your side, you know what? Why would you ever think that? And yet during the black brothers matter riots, they were kneeling, sometimes whether they were standing by, letting them burn buildings and stuff, but they were ready to kill january 6 protesters. I mean, how, how hard do you have to be hit over the head to understand that the police are not on your side? But the conservatives still say support the blue and stuff and they get mad at you if you, it's like tell, if you tell them, not support through.
Speaker 3:Well, what are you supporting with the troops? Okay, I don't want the troops to be killed, but what are you exactly? What are you supporting? Are you supporting them bombing yemen? For no reason? What? What I don't you. What are you supporting? But they do because they just train. They're indoctrinated. It's like the left isn't yeah, it's exactly, and the left is indoctrinated to, like, you know, minorities or transgender something. It's just, it's indoctrination. It's so hard to to get people to think yeah, there's a funny meme.
Speaker 2:I think you sent it to me, tony a bunch of cartoons depicting different swat signs as they're about to raid a house, and I think the first was a dog inside, shoot it. And then the other one was like two dogs might be there. Shoot them both.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, they do. They've done that a lot, haven't they? But the asset force of the whole thing and I give examples in the book of some of it it's a drop in the bucket. I could write a book on that, but it's again. Trump's's never gonna end that.
Speaker 3:You know, jeff sessions was wanted to expand it his first attorney general and he's he's a fan of that too, so it needs to be. You know, that's when you talk about the police, that's the that's at the heart of police corruption is that policing for profit, asset forfeiture should be gone. I mean it's, it's. It's not unconstitutional to just confiscate people's property that haven't even been charged with a crime a lot of times and then not give it back even when they're that's, that's the problem. They'll take houses, they'll take cars and think, but in this book, american memory hole, again, thanks to peter's uh help with the research um, we found all these things that fdr did, that, uh, where he introduced that, where not only did he put Japanese and, but he also put Italians and Germans in concentration camps too. They didn't get any reparations and nobody mentions them. They all should be mentioned because they are all mistreated, but they stole their homes and they stole their businesses, they stole their property. It was asset forfeiture and they never gave it back.
Speaker 3:It's estimated that the germans alone lost like six billion dollars, and for businesses. Nobody talks about that. That's. That's as hidden history as you can possibly find. You try to tell the average citizen that what? What are you talking about? Yeah, that's what they did and that's that's germany.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was paying World War I reparations until 2010.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, until 2010. So that's I mean. You know, that was another shocker. When I discovered on my own, when I was researching, that crimes in cover, I was like what? How's that? I mean that's.
Speaker 1:I think it was Nixon who forgave the loans to the Soviets during the Soviet era.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yep.
Speaker 1:That was a lot of. That was Lynn Leese in time of FDR and all that stuff, and we were backing Stalin. We saved, we propped up Stalin's government. I mean, the United States State Department really didn't get into World War II. It had nothing to do with Great Britain and the defiant stand they were making, and all that. As soon as it was Operation Barbarossa, june 22, 1941, when Hitler turned on the Soviet Union, the United States Department of State said we've got to get in this thing.
Speaker 1:It's true, you can look at the pattern. It's because Joe McCarthy was right. I mean, I guess I make a joke now. It's like McCarthy supposedly had this list. I got a hundred and some odd. Yeah, I mean I don't even need a list now. Just print the employment record of the State Department and I can show you the communists, like the socialistic, you know, that's that they all. It's like Gorevidal said it's not, it's not so much a conspiracy, it's just they just think alike. That's the ruling class. You know, you, you've, and there's a continuity of that. There's a cog, there's a continuity of government. There's a continuity of class there. Yeah, um, I want to close out talking about.
Speaker 1:You mentioned the 90s and that's kind of my wheelhouse too, because you know, you know I was coming of age in the nineties. I was 13 for Waco and you know 15 for Oklahoma city and I remember going up during that time and I've mentioned this on my shows and many times. But you know my dad, who became politically awake during that time as a business owner, entrepreneur and, you know, owned a bank and other things, and he said there is something terribly wrong. It was kind of the succession of events. It was Ruby Ridge, followed by Waco, followed by the assault weapons ban and I think I'm right on my timeline of those being in law.
Speaker 1:I think you know the Brady Bill and all that stuff. It was just this march towards centralization, more with the federal government, and it was focusing all of their stuff internally because this is post-cold war. So it's like the government turned inward and went, you know, after any group or you know, uh, whatever personality, whoever it, it would just speak out against government power and globalization and other things that America was doing after the Cold War. I see this quote here, don, and I just wanted to say it for the show. I'd never heard this. One day you'll find out your government was behind this Timothy McVeigh. I'd never heard that quote.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you know he's. Yeah, he supposedly said these things. I mean, who knows? Because McVeigh was such a strange character and he, he was an odd patsy, you know, let's say that, but very, very odd.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you know, these things that you mentioned, it was, I call it, conspiracy, central in hidden history, the 90s, the Clinton years, but it was just one after another and it was like they were like the Beatles of conspiracy, you know, they had all the, all the, the hits that kept coming. But I mean, if you look at it like at that time in 1992, there was a growing third party movement. It was, it would, maybe, it would maybe at its peak in american history. You could argue that because ross perot got 19 cents of um, you got 19 of the vote and that was the most that any president had gotten since teddy roosevelt you mentioned earlier in 1912. But or, yeah, that was 1912, yeah, but uh. So you know what all this happening at that time was very fortuitous for the government, because they could, oh, look at these crazed white separatists like Randy and Randy Weaver was a white separatist, if you want to call him that he just wanted to be left alone, so he just went in his cabin and said you know, I don't bother me. And of course the government kept screwing with him. And screwing with him and trying to get him to become an informant like Al Sharpton would later, and people. And trying to get him to become an informant like Al Sharpton would later or had already become, and people like that, but he wouldn't bite. They eventually ended up selling him. He sold a sawed-off shotgun. He kept sawing it off, sawing it off until he got to be an illegal vet. And then they went into the rest of his history. He killed his son, killed his dog and blew his wife's head off as she held a baby. Lon Horiyuchi, who's an FBI sharpshooter, or William Barr, trump's first second attorney general, was a character witness for. So that's how we drain the swamp.
Speaker 3:And then you had Waco, which I still think Waco is the greatest. I still think that's the most impeachable offense ever committed by any president, unless you look at, I guess, lincoln's collective war minoring, but just on the surface. I mean to kill those american citizens, used armored tanks and you use the poisonous gas that was banned by the geneva convention that we couldn't use our enemies, but you use it on little kids and then to blame them and nothing happened to him, nothing. And uh, and I you know I was then I was ranting and raving about it back then it it was amazing I couldn't get, you know, most of my family to. They just gave me blank looks, said how can you move the branch? They said you didn't hear the branch, nobody heard of them before last week. Now you think they should be killed. You don't even know what they are. I said I don't care what they are and what they're doing is wrong. And it was a horrible thing.
Speaker 3:But you know, again, this was I think this is in response to Ross Perot getting all those votes the third party movement and the militia. Clinton would famously demonize the militia later because of that, after, in response to that, and he would kind of blame them for certainly for Oklahoma City and after Oklahoma City. That was it that killed the third party movement and because they lied so much about that and it was never the same again until Trump came along, you know, and killed it for good. You know, because there's that populist sentiment has always been there and certainly things are more corrupt than now than ever, but we've never had this big fake opposition like we had that day you didn't have. I think Ross Perot was basically sincere and I think if those things hadn't happened, if those psyops hadn't happened, he could maybe have won 96. Because he ran again, he still got 8% of the vote. But you can see that's how dumb the American people are, because those obvious false flags happen. He lost 11% of the vote, and did he?
Speaker 1:drop out and rejoin. That was in 92, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, and again I talked about that in the industry. I don drop out and rejoin. That was in 92. Yeah, yes, and that was. And he still got me. And again I talked about that in, uh, in the industry. I don't really understand it. It's never made any sense to me. You know that bush was, you know, threatened his, his daughter's, I get pointed at the time what was he going to do at his daughter's wedding? And I don't know, have everybody killed or I don't know what was he? You know, have somebody come and rub wedding cake in their face? I mean, it made no sense.
Speaker 1:And then he jumped back in. What's that? It just reminded me of that line from like, wasn't it the Godfather? It starts off at his daughter's wedding. So it's just some weird. It just reminded me of that. A mafia, whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it was very mafia-like, but I mean I wouldn't put bush past bush to do anything. But uh, that's the only thing, because I I loved a lot about ross perot and all all anecdotal evidences. He was a real nice guy in real life. He tried to bring he's the only one that really tried to bring the pows and my a's back, another completely forgotten story. No one talks about that anymore. I have a big section on it in history. But, um, you know, he was a great man, I think. And uh, I think, you know, maybe he was bad too. I don't. I'm sure the black pill people that uh listen to my show would tell me that he was, that he was bad too. But uh, uh, you know he looked to be maybe a legitimate guy, but that was it after that. And then you know, you got. You got what you got. After that you got a second term of of Clinton and you got George W Bush and Obama and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:I spoke to once where my grandmother lived. It's kind of a retirement home. I spoke to at length for an afternoon with Ross Perot's personal secretary, who knew him for work for him for 20, 30 years or something. It was a long time. This has been about about eight years ago and I just sat there and talked with her. She's so sweet, sweet lady. She had nothing but good things to say about him, like, uh, about how how he worked and how is this his operating system, this is mind, and like how he would compartmentalize things in the way he even running for president, how that was legit and everything that he would compartmentalize things in the way he even running for president, how that was legit and everything that he was doing. And just, you know, there's I think there's a lot of evidence to show he was a real person, maybe a bit eccentric or had some issues.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it was certainly you know, wasn't um.
Speaker 1:I remember one time I saw an interview with him. He was. He was the subject of the first um paper I ever wrote. I was first um paper I ever wrote. I was 12 years old. It's the 92 election and um, my stepmother was mad at my father because she thought that he wrote it. He's like, why would you write that like he did it? He's interested in it. You know, it's awful, how would you write that um? But you know that was the era in the 90s too. You, you know you talk about man. There was so much and especially it culminated right in the middle of the decade. You know, april 19th, oklahoma City. So much strangeness. But they derailed all of those political movements. You're right, don, it was like, it's just like how they derailed the Populist Party in the late 19th century that was becoming so powerful.
Speaker 3:The Populist yeah, Populist Party.
Speaker 1:19th century, that was becoming so powerful, um, the populace, yeah, that was a real, I mean, that was a real threat to the, to the duopoly, and that's why you had the, in my opinion, was one of the reasons for the spanish-american war. Um, because the populace opposed that and it was one way to kind of throw them under the bus. Is, you know, not being patriotic? And you know, people went back to their assigned areas after that, like like we do, you know, when there's something happens and, um, that's so true, and I think about buchanan, I think about those were the days, you know, but a lot of that 96, yes, the high water mark was, the high water mark was before, was was 92, 94, yes, uh, you know, the contract with America, yes, yes, rich, and all that, but, yeah, that never was the same after Oklahoma City, never.
Speaker 2:And then, Tony, you were mentioning to how Trump was behind the basically destruction of the reformist party.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes, he was yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's in a book I read years ago called Crusader. It's the biography of Pat Buchanan and it's very well researched. I mean, trump just shows up because, pat, his only goal was in 2000 was just get in the debates, because you had to register enough percentage to get in the live televised debates with the two parties. He just wanted the American people to hear. But he'd written these two books back back to back and one was the great betrayal about free trade and the other one was a republic, not an empire on. It was a blueprint for an america first foreign policy, which basically means non-interventionist, bringing the troops home and shoring up power, but basically to reform and restore our defenses. And trump just came out book and just said you're a hitler lover. That's what he said. I mean he called him a hitler lover on live television, you know.
Speaker 1:And they started getting hit on him, and and then trump you know, flirted with the being the nominee of the reform party, was fractured, all the delegates and by the time it was to clean up the mess, you know he was just all screwed up.
Speaker 3:There was no momentum that's exactly right, and we never forget that trump that's what I'm saying whatever trump is, he's uh, he's got that in his history as well and uh, I think pat buchanan later ended up kind of liking trump. You know, his pat was very magnanimous. He still somehow liked nixon, you know, but uh, maybe he forgot about that or something. Yeah, the reform party.
Speaker 1:Trump called him about five years before he ran and apologized, supposedly for his comments, because he was told to Like, because Pat was going to play a major role and because he just took Pat's blueprint, which, yeah, which was, which would work if you could get. You just needed enough media exposure and you got to survive the hit pieces that would come out when people are trying to stop an America's first populist movement. So interesting.
Speaker 2:And make America great again. That was Reagan, that's Reagan. Yeah, that's Reagan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, we're making it great again. What's that?
Speaker 1:about that. Well, don Jeffries, love your work, love you, and this is a great book. I'm going to be finishing and I implore my audience anybody that's listening to the show, downloads the show. Please get a copy of American Memory Hole, and any of Don's work is totally worth it. Again, he does like he said earlier in the show. I have to vet this, I have to, I have to source this. He just doesn't write and say look at this, it's, it's, you know, it's not clickbait, it's not sensational. That's why, even before I met you, I was listening, reading your books, and that I'd make a saturday of it and listen to. You know, uh, hidden history, and uh, back back in san antonio a long time ago, back in another seems like another timeline. Um, where can people find you? I want to make sure you plug everything well, every, every.
Speaker 3:This substack is the place. I'm not being shadow bandit, so it's donald jeffries at substackcom. That's I protest, just like my uh live streaming show over the same channels.
Speaker 3:American Blog is on and that's every Friday 5 to 7 pm. Eastern American Memory Hall Memory Hall of the Court of Historians, politics and Information. That's my latest book, so you know you can check that out and all my books Masking the Truth about COVID that's the most shadow banned book in the history of the world and some other stuff. You mentioned some of the others. I have 10 books out there now so people can kind of pick and choose. I'm proud of all of them. But I and you know I wrote about virginia jeffrey today so people can read my latest substack uh kind of a tribute to her that just uh ended up killing herself. You know happened to be epstein's most notable accuser, so uh, it happens to people.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does Well appreciate all that you do. I love the show. Mr Anderson, I know you don't want to be found and before you fade into the mist, go back to your other dimension, wherever you are just outside. I was going to say earlier that you're the first successful cryogenics patient and we we appreciate your courage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was right next to Walt Disney there for a while, of course you were, but thank you, don, so much. I always learn something from conversations with you and reading your book, so thanks for all the hard work.
Speaker 3:I appreciate hearing that it's nice Nice talking with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, folks pick up Don's work and follow him over on substack donaldjeffriesmedia. He's on america unplugged, uh 12 pm eastern on saturdays along with me and, uh, the great billy ray valentine. You can catch me on, uh, the art of burn radio transmission if you want to go over to the america unplugugged channel on Rumble or my ex at Tony Arterburn. That's live there and anywhere podcasts are found, you'll find this Paratroother and the Arterburn Radio Transmission and I'll be doing some Wise Wolf, gold and crypto shows very soon. I'll make announcements on that. You guys take care of each other. We'll be back soon, episode 38 coming out very, very soon. See you guys.