Kalsoom:
So welcome to this Podcast. This episode is going to be a little bit different than the other episodes in that I'm not going to be talking about IELTS and OET, but instead what happens after you get your scores. when I started this podcast I didn't want it to be a normal podcast about IELTS and OET, obviously that's my area of expertise and is what I will talk about the majority of the time but I wanted this podcast to help you with not only getting the score that you need but to guide you and help you through the whole process of getting to where you want to be especially if that's the UK because that's where I live and I would like to do my very small part and help our NHS which does an amazing job by helping equally amazing medical professional like you get to the UK as easily as possible without all the overwhelm and stress and be a source reliable authentic information and guidance getting the score you need and IELTS and OET.
Getting the score you need in IELTS or OET is often just the beginning of the journey and really I want to help you through that whole journey as much as I can. Now I'm not an immigration specialist I'm not recruitment specialist and I don't know much about the ins and outs of that process but I do know people that are experts in those areas so the next few episodes I will be inviting people who can share really valuable advice on the do's and don'ts of different aspects of that process. So today I have a very special guest Mr Ali Mirza who is the Director and Founder of Global Executive Solutions based in London and they specialise in recruiting consultant level doctors to the UK.
So first of all thank you very much for taking the time out of your extremely busy day and coming on my podcast and agreeing to speak to my listeners
Ali:
Pleasure, thank you for having me
Kalsoom:
So can I start off by asking you to introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about who you are your background, how you started your company and the services that you provide and the type of people that you help?
Yeah sure, so we started Solutions in 2016 that was when I realised that there was a huge market for consultant level physicians who are basically very heavily required in the NHS, other one really during the scope of coming into the NHS. When I talk about Physicians and they were people from abroad the people from various different backgrounds, people from Middle East people from Europe and there was a lot of there's a lot that we can do to help these people and it was also the NHS at that point which was quite through significant shortages in and very hard to fill clinical posts, so I thought, why not we Bridge the gap and that's how I came up with Global Exec Solutions of finding out then what is there that we can do to bring in the foreign clinical workforce into the UK and that would eventually these people who are looking to come to the UK as well as filling the gaps where the NHS has in these hard to fill in posts. My my main area of expertise has always been clinical recruitment, so I have always been liaising with medicine consultant level physicians, we do do some ad hoc work middle-grade middle-grade associate specialist doctors as well but majority of the work that we deliver at Global Exec Solutions is involved in is pretty much clinical level work, consultant level work going all the way up to Clinical Directors Associate Medical Directors and all the C suite leadership in the NHS.
Kalsoom:
That’s great. Could you describe the process of so if a candidate comes to you and you on board that client you know what steps do you take them through?
Ali:
So we work with a number of NHS Trusts up and down the country, all the way up north to down south, and we've got number vacancies and these vacancies that the hospitals have tried to fill in themselves and they've not had much luck so that's when they come and approach us and they reach out to us, and they ask, Ali, what is this that you guys could do to help us out? And these are various clinical positions, so briefly, Consultant acute medicine consultant endocrinologist, consultant radiology, histopathology, dermatology, these are some really hard posts in the UK and that's purely because they're not that many trainees coming out, so what we do is we basically map out the market, so this is what we do this is how we value add that we offer to our NHS hospitals and clients and we tell them that look we're going to find out from all these people that you out there and what because you've not had much luck is purely because you need to understand what the candidate is looking for, so so it's all about managing expectations of the candidates and we because of our networks in the clinical work for the people that know us, we know what they're looking for and eventually inform our plans to the NHS, if you are looking to filling these posts are you ready struggling with then you have to think outside the box, those days are gone where you could just attract and recruit by putting a job advert and you just hope for some divine intervention but it doesn't work like that these days. People are very very well settled where they are recruiting people from the UK which is always the tastes and preferences those people with the NHS experience and people in the UK but if you are going to you can't really take some out from the existing job and put them into your what you have, why would they leave their current job which is very much and very similar situation to what you guys doing so you know it's about time that open-minded approach and looking to employ people from abroad, where because that could eventually solve your problem and then that also could also work on the favour of the candidates because he or she is trying to come into the UK’s NHS market so this is what I always inform my client and working with the candidates I always tell them that you know a lot of candidates do not have the information that they need to to really have a have a strong TMC application, a lot these people think that you know people don't understand how complex the GMC application process is there a lot of people think I'll be just need to get registration and then we'll get the licence to practice and that's it you know it doesn't really work out unfortunately so it's all about and how you start of the process. So going into GMC application is very important for candidates to read through the GMC website and just in terms of what is required so and it's very important that you know every step of the application has their own requirements, it’s very important for them to understand that, so just to give you a brief example, so for registration there's a certain set of requirements for GMC registration however, for licence to practice which is the following stage which is after the registration there's a difference set of requirements, so people think I was just because I haven't got the requirements for licence to practice, I cannot apply for registration that is definitely not the case so it's just because you haven't got the requirements for Licence to Practice you can still apply for registration however you will not be able to afford to the second stage which is Licensed to practice till you satisfy the requirements of Licence to Practice and this is where a lot of doctors do not understand and I get mixed up and this is where I tell them that look, for registration you need to provide your primary medical qualification you PMQs,your experiences, fill in the application and that is the requirement for registration. However, the next stage is License to Practice the only requirement for License to Practice is the English language test i.e. an IELTS or OET ,so lot of people think just because they don’t have IELTS or OET they can’t apply. No, they can still apply then get the registration however they won’t get the License to Practice because the requirement for Licence to Practice is an IELTS or OET test. Once you get that then you are you can still apply for registration but once you get the IELTS or OET test, you can send that to the GMC and get a licence to practice that you need to work as a clinician in the UK. So, then I think it's all about people think that is just out it's easy to apply for registration and they will automatically get all these things but all this information is on the GMC website but the I understand people from abroad, these consultants, clinicians, physicians do not really have that level of understanding of going through the GMC website because the GMC website is not as user-friendly as it could be I mean
Kalsoom:
I understand what you're saying I mean it's the same with IELTS and OET there's a lot of misconceptions out there and people do things are wrong way round or they don’t understand something, and they continually make the sam mistakes and they make life very difficult for themselves, and it’s really important to get the right information, reliable information.
Ali:
100% and this where a lot of these candidates come in and and to be honest both are stakeholders the NHS is a stakeholder for us and the candidate still looking to employ so we provide that service whichthe candidates are happy with and the so so this is what I take a lot of pride in and make sure that not misleading because there are plenty of recruiters out there who will say things but eventually they won't really materialize that way and you know the candidates are the ones who actually got no clue what's going on so I literally sit down with my candidates I have literally weekly calls with them all these calls are usually 60 to 90 minutes and where we just go through what is required for the GMC how we going to do certain things how they go about applying for this, what is the next stage, what potentially what is the next set of paperwork they could potentially required, so please keep that handy because you will be asked for it at some point down the line is purely from experiences that we that we've had in working with these and candidates from abroad and are able to provide that information
Kalsoom:
Would you say that’s the biggest mistake candidates make?
Perhaps 12 to 18 months that was the case alot of people were making that mistake, but now I’ve noticed people are a lot more switched on, so things are getting a little better and they are slowly understanding through word of mouth, who give them that advice or through some friends in the UK however perhaps if you would ask a question about 12 to 18 months before it was a lot of mistakes he made that point yet ok once these doctors come over to the UK
Kalsoom:
Ok, you already mentioned how you support them which is amazing I think and I think you know I think that's what doctors really want now nurses whoever come over to the UK they need that support and it's really good to hear that you provide that support so you have those fortnightly caused what do you think the biggest challenges once your your your candidates moved to the UK what what are the biggest challenges they face once they're here
Once they are interviewed and they’re offered the job and that's where the start preparing it really is that there's a lot of things that they are really unaware of, but they don't know if they should come alone or they should bring the family alongside something something and never sure about because going to a new country, they’re not sure, especially people from Middle Eastern background they did not sure if a family of the kids will be able adjust in that sort of a very caucasan environment, you're not really because they're not used to it and there's also a lot of religious aspect to consider moving into a new a new city will they be able to wouldn't be able to keep up with their faith, it's all about making sure that because, I mean everybody has got their own set of priorities but I've noticed people from the middle east feel a lot more comfortable and keep them close to them close tot heir faith. That that's one of the big challenges that they're always come across and I always gets thrown at is Ali, would there be any halal shops will be any in a Mosque around the hospital will there be any Islamic kind of schools to my kids around the city that you're putting me forward for, that something that is a serious concern for them before they even make the move. Once they are in the country will still arrived I think the biggest challenges that point is you know I didn't think that the department was so understaffed been I'm working 10 to 12 hours everyday and I thought I've left my 9 to 5 job to come to the NHS I didn't think I was going to be hit with a department where they asked me to work in 10 to 12 hours work if I don't get enough time with my family my family is kind of the day sacrificing a lot because I'm is the new country, new city, you are not feeling comfortable going out on their own so it's a lot of these things and then, the biggest one is the salary of a lot these people feel very uncomfortable they received their first month’s salary in the UK, that's purely because they didn’t realise what the tax implications are. So initially coming into the UK they know what they’ve been offered, the NHS makes that scale pretty evident, salary starts at £79,000 and go all the way up to £107,000 to £110,000, but then they don’t realise that although they have been offered, let’s say 80 85K per annum, they don’t realise what the tax implications are, how much they will be taxed and once they receive their salary in their banks, they only have £5,000 £6,000, and it’s something that really hits them hard, then they start talking about their calculations, you know this is what I’m going to pay for my kid’s tuition fee, this my rent, this is what I'm going to pay for my car so finally they relaise they don’t really have much to save, so this is a concern that they realise that you know what they're really left back in the Middle Eastern to come and live that sort of sort of lifestyle is it is not going to happen.
Kalsoom:
How do they overcome that then?
Ali:
Well they realise they will have to cut down a lot of luxury that they were probably not not really ready to sacrifice earlier on so so it's basically I get a lot of people, especially from the Middle East say to me however Ali, we’re happy to come and consider this role but however we don’t want to be closer to London because it's too expensive living in London as they look for opportunities up in North like West Manchester, Greater Manchester, Liverpool, Yorkshire these kinds of places
Kalsoom:
Yeah, I think the cost of living in the UK does depend on where abouts you live
Ali:
and then and then there are behind-the-scenes conversation going on with the family in the UK all their friends in the UK so although they gte all this advice from me they like to go back and get that affirmed that whatever Ali is telling us is true but they do they that trust element which is always Justified whenever they speak to a close family member or friend so opportunities up north and away from London basically just because they know living in London it's just going to be impossible in that sort of thing is quite
Kalsoom:
So you’ve talked about a the negative side of moving to the UK, what do they love about working in the UK when they come here what do they like
Ali:
for a lot of people this is the exposure is the experience that they want to come into the UK just because they feel that the UK experience will add value to their existing CV, and that's that's something that these people want to make the move for and they just looking for that extra bit of push just that extra, what they say, the cherry on the cake on their CV, that UK NHS experience, so thats why they look to make the move. Also the kids the kids education is a huge concern noticed the last three they want to make the move purely because they want their kids to have a better future better social life quality of life
Kalsoom:
Yeah I definitely agree with my IELTS and OET students that is their major goal to provide bigger and better opportunities for their children
Absolutley, and and that's one of the reasons why they really want to make the move, and and the other thing is a last but not the least I would say is is there know that you know after they stay in the UK for 5-years they would be eligible for British nationality and citizenship so and that eventually is a very very big kind of it I would say incentive for them because they can then use that and very British passport to go back to their country where they come from and people with British passport British nationalities do get a lot of more higher salaries asvcompared to normal people
Kalsoom:
So do people after the 5 years actually go back
Ali:
but it does kind of happen after year 6 or year 7 they do they do tend to go back and I get a lot of queries in terms of Ali do you work with hospitals in the Middle East and then I've been the UK for the last 5/6 years I came in I got my British Citizenship and I'm looking to move back have you got any any hospitals that you work within the Middle East can you put me forward for those roles, so I do get a lot of inquiries, yeah
Kalsoom:
What advice would you give someone who's about to start this process and wanting to work in the NHS what general advice would you give them initially
Ali:
I think if you looking to come into the NHS is it all looks really good but make sure you do your homework and research and in terms of where you would you want to live where would you want to settle down because this move is is is very challenging however at the same time you want to make sure that you join a hospital and that would help you and support you and terms of your career goals, I mean for out a lot these people do not get specialist registration straight away only get a registration licence to practice and the final stage of the registration licence GMC is a specialist registration in their area of expertise so while they’re abroad they can still registration and licence to practice, some very very very rarely can apply for specialist registration but this happens very rarely, I would say 70% to 80% and apply for registration and licence to Practice and come to the UK start working in the NHS and while they're working alongside the prepare for the specialist registration very rarely it happens that the apply for the specialist registration while they’re abroad, Ive not come across many cases like that but yeah I'm just stating that make sure if you are at your end goal is to get a specialist registration you want to join a hospital or trust that would help you towards your specialist registration because you cannot work in the NHS without if you want a permanent substantive post in the NHS, you need to be on specialist register and if you had a lot specialist registration you cannot have a permanent substantive post in the NHS, you will only have an NHS locum or a fixed term contract which varies from 12 months to 24 months and that's all you can get without a specialist registration so if you are looking for permanent post long-term post in the NHS, make sure that the hospital that you looking to join is willing to offer you that support that you need
Kalsoom
Ali if anyone listening wanted to get in contact with you how can they find you?
Ali:
we are going on LinkedIn so please feel free to drop us a message in my my colleagues host a lot of us on LinkedIn I post on LinkedIn so listen you guys can always reach out to us if there's any issues in terms of a GMC registration it there any concerns that you have which hospital to join I can put you in contact with some really good hospitals who have in the past helped candidates with specialist registration and and and a lot of hospitals NHS Trust now these days are focusing on basically making their specialist registration process very smooth or new candidates coming from abroad because they understand that is the big USB for them so anybody looking to join the NHS please drop us a message on LinkedIn or reach out to us on LinkedIn you email me on LinkedIn and they can also visit our website so that's www.globalexchange.co.uk you can you can message us there my my details are always on LinkedIn so LinkedIn would be the best way to reach out to us
Kalsoom:
I will leave all the links to the website, your email address and your LinkedIn all in the show notes so please check out the show notes if you would like to get in touch with Ali.
Ali thank you very much for your time today this has been invaluable and I'm sure you have some really really good advice thank you so much for your time.
Ali:
no problem thank you so much.