{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.02,"body":"If you have ever"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.02,"body":"second guessed yourself, because"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":4.05,"endTime":9.45,"body":"a client or a potential client"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":4.05,"endTime":9.45,"body":"started to give you a hard time"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":9.45,"endTime":13.47,"body":"about one of your policies, or"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":9.45,"endTime":13.47,"body":"your pricing, or anything like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":13.47,"endTime":19.23,"body":"that, then you are in the 100%"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":13.47,"endTime":19.23,"body":"majority of photographers,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":19.23,"endTime":22.59,"body":"because we've all been there at"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":19.23,"endTime":22.59,"body":"some point or another. Or if we"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":22.59,"endTime":26.61,"body":"haven't yet been there, we have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":22.59,"endTime":26.61,"body":"lived in fear that that time"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":26.61,"endTime":30.6,"body":"would come and rest assured that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":26.61,"endTime":30.6,"body":"time will come. There are"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":30.6,"endTime":36.24,"body":"clients out there, who whether"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":30.6,"endTime":36.24,"body":"for reasons that are reasonable"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":36.27,"endTime":43.32,"body":"or not, will give you pushback."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":36.27,"endTime":43.32,"body":"And when they do it is in your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":43.32,"endTime":46.8,"body":"best interest. And ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":43.32,"endTime":46.8,"body":"it's in their best interest. For"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":46.8,"endTime":52.8,"body":"you to be prepared. You need to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":46.8,"endTime":52.8,"body":"be grounded, not only in a legal"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":52.8,"endTime":56.37,"body":"sense with like your policies"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":52.8,"endTime":56.37,"body":"and your procedures, and all"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":56.37,"endTime":60.06,"body":"those kinds of things. But you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":56.37,"endTime":60.06,"body":"also need the confidence and the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":60.06,"endTime":63.9,"body":"ability to communicate that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":60.06,"endTime":63.9,"body":"confidence so that you are"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":63.9,"endTime":68.19,"body":"protected. They feel confident"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":63.9,"endTime":68.19,"body":"like they can trust you or they"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":68.19,"endTime":71.52,"body":"know you know what, this is not"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":68.19,"endTime":71.52,"body":"someone who is going to allow me"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":71.52,"endTime":75.63,"body":"to push them around. And then"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":71.52,"endTime":75.63,"body":"they decide to go in a different"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":75.63,"endTime":80.64,"body":"direction. So all of that is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":75.63,"endTime":80.64,"body":"really easy to kind of say and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":80.64,"endTime":85.59,"body":"pontificate about and know on an"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":80.64,"endTime":85.59,"body":"intellectual level. But being in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":85.59,"endTime":89.43,"body":"that situation and handling it"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":85.59,"endTime":89.43,"body":"well, is a whole different kit"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":89.43,"endTime":94.53,"body":"and caboodle, which is why I am"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":89.43,"endTime":94.53,"body":"extremely excited to share my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":94.53,"endTime":98.22,"body":"conversation today with my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":94.53,"endTime":98.22,"body":"friend, Rachel uten Evans. She's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":98.22,"endTime":102.0,"body":"a photographer in the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":98.22,"endTime":102.0,"body":"Philadelphia area. And I just"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":102.06,"endTime":106.14,"body":"love the conversation that I'm"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":102.06,"endTime":106.14,"body":"about to share with you. She and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":106.14,"endTime":110.52,"body":"I chatted and honestly, at some"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":106.14,"endTime":110.52,"body":"point, I looked at the clock and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":110.52,"endTime":113.55,"body":"I was like, Oh, I have to wrap"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":110.52,"endTime":113.55,"body":"things up. I could have gone on"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":113.55,"endTime":116.58,"body":"for a long time. This is a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":113.55,"endTime":116.58,"body":"subject that honestly no matter"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":116.58,"endTime":121.35,"body":"how long you have been in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":116.58,"endTime":121.35,"body":"business, it comes up. And it"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":121.68,"endTime":126.42,"body":"feels different and fresh and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":121.68,"endTime":126.42,"body":"hard, essentially every single"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":126.42,"endTime":130.8,"body":"time. But it does get easier."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":126.42,"endTime":130.8,"body":"And it doesn't have to take a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":130.8,"endTime":136.8,"body":"long, long time to make moves"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":130.8,"endTime":136.8,"body":"toward getting easier. So with"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":136.8,"endTime":140.64,"body":"that, I am going to cue the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":136.8,"endTime":140.64,"body":"music and introduce Rachel."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":141.84,"endTime":145.5,"body":"Welcome to this can't be that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":141.84,"endTime":145.5,"body":"hard. My name is Annemie Tonken."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":145.5,"endTime":148.44,"body":"And I help photographers run"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":145.5,"endTime":148.44,"body":"profitable, sustainable"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":148.44,"endTime":152.61,"body":"businesses that they love. Each"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":148.44,"endTime":152.61,"body":"week on the podcast, I cover"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":152.61,"endTime":156.36,"body":"simple, actionable strategies"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":152.61,"endTime":156.36,"body":"and systems that photographers"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":156.36,"endTime":160.14,"body":"at every level of experience can"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":156.36,"endTime":160.14,"body":"use to earn more money in a more"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":160.14,"endTime":163.86,"body":"sustainable way. Running a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":160.14,"endTime":163.86,"body":"photography business doesn't"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":163.86,"endTime":167.61,"body":"have to be that hard. You can do"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":163.86,"endTime":167.61,"body":"it. And I can show you how."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":171.03,"endTime":174.24,"body":"Rachel, welcome to this can't be"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":171.03,"endTime":174.24,"body":"that hard. I am so excited to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":174.24,"endTime":177.0,"body":"have you on the show today. How"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":174.24,"endTime":177.0,"body":"have you been?"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":177.63,"endTime":179.52,"body":"I've been"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":177.63,"endTime":179.52,"body":"pretty good. I'm really excited."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":179.58,"endTime":180.39,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":180.42,"endTime":183.27,"body":"This is gonna be"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":180.42,"endTime":183.27,"body":"a fun conversation, a juicy"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":183.27,"endTime":186.99,"body":"conversation. And I imagine one"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":183.27,"endTime":186.99,"body":"that is going to get a fair"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":186.99,"endTime":191.91,"body":"number of people like thinking"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":186.99,"endTime":191.91,"body":"and feeling big feelings and all"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":192.21,"endTime":195.99,"body":"things. So a big feelings. I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":192.21,"endTime":195.99,"body":"know, I know, these are my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":195.99,"endTime":199.44,"body":"favorite kinds of conversations,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":195.99,"endTime":199.44,"body":"why stay safely in the middle of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":199.44,"endTime":202.2,"body":"when we can sort of stretch the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":199.44,"endTime":202.2,"body":"margins a little bit. Let's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":202.2,"endTime":205.2,"body":"start out with having you just"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":202.2,"endTime":205.2,"body":"kind of give everybody a little"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":205.2,"endTime":210.21,"body":"background on who you are and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":205.2,"endTime":210.21,"body":"where you work and how you came"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":210.21,"endTime":211.89,"body":"to feel so passionately on this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":210.21,"endTime":211.89,"body":"topic."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":212.52,"endTime":216.24,"body":"Sure. So I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":212.52,"endTime":216.24,"body":"live in Philadelphia with my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":216.24,"endTime":220.29,"body":"husband and my three kids. I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":216.24,"endTime":220.29,"body":"have been in business as a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":220.29,"endTime":224.4,"body":"photographer since 2011. And I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":220.29,"endTime":224.4,"body":"can always remember that because"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":224.4,"endTime":227.67,"body":"I found out I was pregnant with"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":224.4,"endTime":227.67,"body":"my daughter right around that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":227.67,"endTime":230.64,"body":"same time and she's turning 12"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":227.67,"endTime":230.64,"body":"soon. So that's a real easy way"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":230.64,"endTime":234.6,"body":"to keep track. Yeah. But I you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":230.64,"endTime":234.6,"body":"know, was that classic like"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":234.6,"endTime":237.69,"body":"really into photography in"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":234.6,"endTime":237.69,"body":"middle school high school never"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":237.69,"endTime":242.4,"body":"really thought it could be a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":237.69,"endTime":242.4,"body":"quote unquote real job. But you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":242.4,"endTime":245.82,"body":"know, I gave it a shot in 2011"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":242.4,"endTime":245.82,"body":"and here I am 12 years later, so"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":245.82,"endTime":249.63,"body":"yeah, yeah, it's working out"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":245.82,"endTime":249.63,"body":"pretty well. So I am a primarily"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":249.66,"endTime":253.14,"body":"a family and birth photographer"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":249.66,"endTime":253.14,"body":"in Philadelphia. I'm also a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":253.14,"endTime":256.23,"body":"trained doula, but I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":253.14,"endTime":256.23,"body":"at the point in my career where"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":256.23,"endTime":259.26,"body":"I kind of am doing all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":256.23,"endTime":259.26,"body":"things. I do event photography"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":259.26,"endTime":263.43,"body":"now. I work with nonprofits."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":259.26,"endTime":263.43,"body":"I've done a few weddings. It's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":263.46,"endTime":266.37,"body":"I'm kind of in that really fun"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":263.46,"endTime":266.37,"body":"part of like, yeah, that sounds"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":266.37,"endTime":269.34,"body":"great. Let's let's do it. And I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":266.37,"endTime":269.34,"body":"get to just kind of flex those"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":269.34,"endTime":272.76,"body":"creative muscles and it's really"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":269.34,"endTime":272.76,"body":"great. Love it. And yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":272.76,"endTime":274.68,"body":"I've been in business for a long"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":272.76,"endTime":274.68,"body":"time and I've been able to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":274.68,"endTime":279.42,"body":"really kind of organically grow"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":274.68,"endTime":279.42,"body":"my business and also my own"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":279.42,"endTime":283.26,"body":"confidence in my business over"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":279.42,"endTime":283.26,"body":"these years. You know, learning"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":283.26,"endTime":286.62,"body":"as I go making the mistakes and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":283.26,"endTime":286.62,"body":"having each mistake be a lesson"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":286.62,"endTime":294.12,"body":"as I as I kind of move on, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":286.62,"endTime":294.12,"body":"in the last year, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":294.12,"endTime":298.44,"body":"know if this was like a pandemic"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":294.12,"endTime":298.44,"body":"thing I did hear some some wires"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":298.44,"endTime":301.98,"body":"I think went haywire after the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":298.44,"endTime":301.98,"body":"pen. endemic Yeah, I started"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":301.98,"endTime":309.09,"body":"having these really interesting"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":301.98,"endTime":309.09,"body":"client interactions. And, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":309.09,"endTime":311.91,"body":"know, I was able to identify"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":309.09,"endTime":311.91,"body":"that earlier in my career, they"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":311.91,"endTime":314.67,"body":"probably would have sent me off"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":311.91,"endTime":314.67,"body":"the rails, I would have kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":314.67,"endTime":318.21,"body":"had this self confidence spiral"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":314.67,"endTime":318.21,"body":"and not really knowing what to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":318.21,"endTime":322.08,"body":"do with it. And each time, even"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":318.21,"endTime":322.08,"body":"though each one was not a super"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":322.08,"endTime":326.19,"body":"comfortable interaction to have,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":322.08,"endTime":326.19,"body":"I felt very prepared, I felt"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":326.19,"endTime":329.13,"body":"very confident, you know, I can"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":326.19,"endTime":329.13,"body":"go into a little bit more detail"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":329.13,"endTime":333.63,"body":"about what each of those"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":329.13,"endTime":333.63,"body":"instances was. But it was a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":333.63,"endTime":337.38,"body":"great moment of both Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":333.63,"endTime":337.38,"body":"I'm really, I'm really in a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":337.38,"endTime":339.18,"body":"great place with my business"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":337.38,"endTime":339.18,"body":"where I've been doing this so"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":339.18,"endTime":343.47,"body":"long that I feel really solid,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":339.18,"endTime":343.47,"body":"in representing myself this way"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":343.47,"endTime":347.07,"body":"and defending my business when I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":343.47,"endTime":347.07,"body":"need to. And then it also gave"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":347.07,"endTime":351.63,"body":"me this really interesting"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":347.07,"endTime":351.63,"body":"insight when I would share these"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":351.63,"endTime":355.2,"body":"stories of these instances with"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":351.63,"endTime":355.2,"body":"other female photographer"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":355.2,"endTime":358.41,"body":"friends that I have. And I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":355.2,"endTime":358.41,"body":"getting a lot of these responses"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":358.41,"endTime":361.14,"body":"of like, you know, this really"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":358.41,"endTime":361.14,"body":"aggressive client was demanding"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":361.14,"endTime":363.36,"body":"these things for me, and my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":361.14,"endTime":363.36,"body":"friends were like, You should"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":363.36,"endTime":366.45,"body":"just give him what he wants. So"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":363.36,"endTime":366.45,"body":"he'll leave you alone? And I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":366.45,"endTime":370.74,"body":"like, No, that's, I'm not going"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":366.45,"endTime":370.74,"body":"to do that. And why why? Why do"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":370.74,"endTime":373.95,"body":"we think that that's an"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":370.74,"endTime":373.95,"body":"appropriate way to be a business"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":373.95,"endTime":377.46,"body":"owner. And it's not just, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":373.95,"endTime":377.46,"body":"know, to deal with someone being"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":377.46,"endTime":381.15,"body":"aggressive, but especially when"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":377.46,"endTime":381.15,"body":"you're a business owner, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":381.15,"endTime":384.18,"body":"most of us are sole sole"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":381.15,"endTime":384.18,"body":"business owners, it's just us."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":384.6,"endTime":388.95,"body":"We set we design the business,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":384.6,"endTime":388.95,"body":"we set the rules. And so we"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":388.95,"endTime":393.12,"body":"should be portraying ourselves"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":388.95,"endTime":393.12,"body":"as the authority of our"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":393.15,"endTime":396.33,"body":"business. We are literally the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":393.15,"endTime":396.33,"body":"authority, it's just as we make"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":396.33,"endTime":402.03,"body":"the choices, and we should not"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":396.33,"endTime":402.03,"body":"be bending to, you know, big"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":402.03,"endTime":404.64,"body":"feelings. Yeah. That might be"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":402.03,"endTime":404.64,"body":"coming up."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":404.85,"endTime":408.57,"body":"No, totally. And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":404.85,"endTime":408.57,"body":"I like I'm just itching to dive"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":408.57,"endTime":412.23,"body":"into the specifics and some of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":408.57,"endTime":412.23,"body":"my own stories that I'm sure I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":412.23,"endTime":416.07,"body":"could share, too. I'm sure we"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":412.23,"endTime":416.07,"body":"all do. What I'm most excited to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":416.07,"endTime":421.65,"body":"sort of get into is that line,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":416.07,"endTime":421.65,"body":"because I do think that we all"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":421.65,"endTime":425.04,"body":"probably are nodding our heads"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":421.65,"endTime":425.04,"body":"along like, yeah, yeah, we have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":425.04,"endTime":428.37,"body":"to hold our boundaries, and all"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":425.04,"endTime":428.37,"body":"that sort of stuff, which is all"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":428.46,"endTime":432.99,"body":"great in theory. And it's when"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":428.46,"endTime":432.99,"body":"these situations arise, and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":432.99,"endTime":436.17,"body":"we're the one in the hot seat"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":432.99,"endTime":436.17,"body":"who has to respond to the email,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":436.47,"endTime":439.98,"body":"or pick up the phone to call"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":436.47,"endTime":439.98,"body":"someone to, you know, handle an"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":439.98,"endTime":444.72,"body":"issue. And it is whether it's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":439.98,"endTime":444.72,"body":"culturally prescribed, or"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":444.72,"endTime":448.98,"body":"whether it is our sort of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":444.72,"endTime":448.98,"body":"artistic sensitive selves or"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":448.98,"endTime":452.55,"body":"whatever. We tend to be, you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":448.98,"endTime":452.55,"body":"know, people pleasers, and we"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":452.55,"endTime":455.13,"body":"want to make things smooth and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":452.55,"endTime":455.13,"body":"easy. And we don't want to deal"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":455.13,"endTime":459.87,"body":"with conflict. And so when we"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":455.13,"endTime":459.87,"body":"are in that spot, it's almost"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":459.87,"endTime":466.62,"body":"like we need a toolkit of ways"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":459.87,"endTime":466.62,"body":"two ways to respond that walk"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":466.62,"endTime":473.04,"body":"that line between being not only"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":466.62,"endTime":473.04,"body":"professional, but also like, you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":473.04,"endTime":475.02,"body":"know, with an eye on good"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":473.04,"endTime":475.02,"body":"customer service and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":475.02,"endTime":478.17,"body":"acknowledging that like, we are"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":475.02,"endTime":478.17,"body":"not perfect, and maybe there was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":478.17,"endTime":481.41,"body":"a mistake or an issue or"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":478.17,"endTime":481.41,"body":"whatever. But but making sure"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":481.41,"endTime":484.86,"body":"that we're being clear eyed"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":481.41,"endTime":484.86,"body":"about whether it's that or like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":484.86,"endTime":487.98,"body":"somebody is trying to push us"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":484.86,"endTime":487.98,"body":"around, which happens. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":487.98,"endTime":489.63,"body":"and I think"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":487.98,"endTime":489.63,"body":"it's really easy for folks to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":489.63,"endTime":493.95,"body":"fall into looking at it in a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":489.63,"endTime":493.95,"body":"really binary way of like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":493.95,"endTime":496.14,"body":"you're either of a passive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":493.95,"endTime":496.14,"body":"person or a very aggressive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":496.14,"endTime":500.49,"body":"person. And neither one of those"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":496.14,"endTime":500.49,"body":"labels feels necessarily good."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":500.49,"endTime":502.44,"body":"Because if you're a passive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":500.49,"endTime":502.44,"body":"person, it sounds like you're a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":502.44,"endTime":504.48,"body":"pushover. If you're an"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":502.44,"endTime":504.48,"body":"aggressive person, it sounds"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":504.48,"endTime":506.73,"body":"like you're hard to work with."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":504.48,"endTime":506.73,"body":"And I don't think that either of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":506.73,"endTime":510.21,"body":"those has to be true. First of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":506.73,"endTime":510.21,"body":"all, I think the big key is"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":510.21,"endTime":515.49,"body":"preparation. And that's one of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":510.21,"endTime":515.49,"body":"the things that I recognize, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":515.49,"endTime":517.89,"body":"know, every lesson, I always say"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":515.49,"endTime":517.89,"body":"every lesson that I learned"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":517.89,"endTime":521.07,"body":"becomes a line in my contract."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":517.89,"endTime":521.07,"body":"Because you only need to learn"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":521.07,"endTime":523.38,"body":"that lesson once and then you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":521.07,"endTime":523.38,"body":"can protect yourself from it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":523.38,"endTime":526.47,"body":"ever happening again. And the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":523.38,"endTime":526.47,"body":"protection is preparation and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":526.47,"endTime":531.63,"body":"education. And so that's why I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":526.47,"endTime":531.63,"body":"say like, the number one thing"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":531.66,"endTime":533.88,"body":"that makes me feel really"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":531.66,"endTime":533.88,"body":"confident in my business"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":533.88,"endTime":537.21,"body":"practices. Number one is my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":533.88,"endTime":537.21,"body":"contract, have had a lawyer look"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":537.21,"endTime":541.05,"body":"over it. I feel really secure in"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":537.21,"endTime":541.05,"body":"what's in there. I feel it's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":541.05,"endTime":545.58,"body":"fair. And I make it readily"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":541.05,"endTime":545.58,"body":"available so that everybody"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":545.58,"endTime":548.49,"body":"should be read. I know lots of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":545.58,"endTime":548.49,"body":"people don't read contracts, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":548.52,"endTime":550.68,"body":"you're an adult, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":548.52,"endTime":550.68,"body":"give you the contract. It's your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":550.68,"endTime":553.08,"body":"job to read it. If you sign it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":550.68,"endTime":553.08,"body":"you're agreeing to what I have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":553.08,"endTime":556.26,"body":"in my contract. Yeah. And the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":553.08,"endTime":556.26,"body":"whole purpose of our contracts"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":556.26,"endTime":560.25,"body":"as business owners is to protect"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":556.26,"endTime":560.25,"body":"us in those situations is to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":560.25,"endTime":563.73,"body":"give us that foundation, where"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":560.25,"endTime":563.73,"body":"it's not an argument. You can't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":563.73,"endTime":566.4,"body":"argue with me over whether or"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":563.73,"endTime":566.4,"body":"not you think this is fair, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":566.4,"endTime":569.55,"body":"signed this thing. And I gave"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":566.4,"endTime":569.55,"body":"you a chance to disagree with"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":569.55,"endTime":572.85,"body":"what you said before you signed"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":569.55,"endTime":572.85,"body":"it right now this is our mutual"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":572.85,"endTime":576.21,"body":"agreement of how we're going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":572.85,"endTime":576.21,"body":"proceed. You can say you don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":576.21,"endTime":578.19,"body":"like it, but it doesn't change"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":576.21,"endTime":578.19,"body":"the fact that you signed the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":578.19,"endTime":580.83,"body":"contract and I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":578.19,"endTime":580.83,"body":"always going to be people who"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":580.83,"endTime":584.79,"body":"will try to push that line. But"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":580.83,"endTime":584.79,"body":"I think for we us as business"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":584.79,"endTime":587.4,"body":"owners, it's a having the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":584.79,"endTime":587.4,"body":"contract and then the nice kind"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":587.4,"endTime":590.61,"body":"of partner of that is having a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":587.4,"endTime":590.61,"body":"lawyer that you feel really"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":590.61,"endTime":594.84,"body":"comfortable going to and saying"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":590.61,"endTime":594.84,"body":"like oh, this this person is"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":594.84,"endTime":597.18,"body":"pushing back against my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":594.84,"endTime":597.18,"body":"contract. I just want to triple"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":597.18,"endTime":600.15,"body":"check with you. That this is"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":597.18,"endTime":600.15,"body":"this is airtight in the Is this"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":600.15,"endTime":602.52,"body":"correct? And the lawyer can"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":600.15,"endTime":602.52,"body":"confirm that to you. And you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":602.52,"endTime":607.02,"body":"know, having those two things"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":602.52,"endTime":607.02,"body":"backing you up? That that is a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":607.02,"endTime":611.34,"body":"huge part of my confidence."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":607.02,"endTime":611.34,"body":"Yeah. And then the other part of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":611.34,"endTime":614.85,"body":"that is the client education"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":611.34,"endTime":614.85,"body":"that goes into before they hire"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":614.85,"endTime":618.51,"body":"you. That is the other thing"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":614.85,"endTime":618.51,"body":"that gives me a really solid"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":618.51,"endTime":623.37,"body":"foundation. You know, I show you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":618.51,"endTime":623.37,"body":"all of my prices upfront all of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":623.37,"endTime":625.8,"body":"my policies upfront, you have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":623.37,"endTime":625.8,"body":"plenty of time to look at the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":625.8,"endTime":630.15,"body":"contracts and ask me questions"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":625.8,"endTime":630.15,"body":"like, I have made every possible"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":630.15,"endTime":634.44,"body":"opportunity give you all the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":630.15,"endTime":634.44,"body":"pertinent information to ask"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":634.44,"endTime":638.25,"body":"every question, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":634.44,"endTime":638.25,"body":"as much as I can do, I can't sit"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":638.25,"endTime":642.18,"body":"you down and force you to read"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":638.25,"endTime":642.18,"body":"it, I can provide it to you. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":642.18,"endTime":645.54,"body":"then you can sign it, give me"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":642.18,"endTime":645.54,"body":"your credit card, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":645.54,"endTime":648.54,"body":"whatever it is, you're joining"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":645.54,"endTime":648.54,"body":"into that agreement from your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":648.54,"endTime":652.74,"body":"end. But I've checked off all"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":648.54,"endTime":652.74,"body":"those boxes. And so then later,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":652.74,"endTime":654.57,"body":"if you come back, and you have a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":652.74,"endTime":654.57,"body":"problem with any of those"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":654.57,"endTime":659.16,"body":"things, I'm starting on such a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":654.57,"endTime":659.16,"body":"solid ground. Yeah, I can see"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":659.16,"endTime":662.49,"body":"that you're really upset. And I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":659.16,"endTime":662.49,"body":"can also send you this PDF of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":662.49,"endTime":665.61,"body":"this contract designs. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":662.49,"endTime":665.61,"body":"your chance to have a problem"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":665.61,"endTime":666.84,"body":"with any of that stuff. So"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":667.98,"endTime":671.91,"body":"okay, so with"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":667.98,"endTime":671.91,"body":"all that preamble, let's get"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":671.91,"endTime":675.87,"body":"into the nitty gritty Tell me a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":671.91,"endTime":675.87,"body":"little bit of betting, I'll give"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":675.87,"endTime":679.95,"body":"you carte blanche in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":675.87,"endTime":679.95,"body":"which which story you want to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":679.95,"endTime":683.37,"body":"start out with. But let's let's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":679.95,"endTime":683.37,"body":"dissect this in real life, like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":683.37,"endTime":685.95,"body":"how has this come up in your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":683.37,"endTime":685.95,"body":"business?"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":686.1,"endTime":689.46,"body":"I'll give"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":686.1,"endTime":689.46,"body":"you two examples. One, I worked"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":689.46,"endTime":693.15,"body":"with a family, say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":689.46,"endTime":693.15,"body":"like I said, I have all of my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":693.15,"endTime":697.74,"body":"pre session boxes that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":693.15,"endTime":697.74,"body":"checked, we had the session, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":697.74,"endTime":701.85,"body":"way that I run my sessions, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":697.74,"endTime":701.85,"body":"do, you know, kind of a post"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":701.85,"endTime":706.17,"body":"pandemic version of IPs, where"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":701.85,"endTime":706.17,"body":"they pay a session fee. We meet"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":706.17,"endTime":709.29,"body":"together on Zoom, a few weeks"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":706.17,"endTime":709.29,"body":"later, we look at the photos,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":709.83,"endTime":713.58,"body":"one member of the couple met"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":709.83,"endTime":713.58,"body":"with me to look at the photos,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":713.61,"endTime":717.24,"body":"we went through them made the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":713.61,"endTime":717.24,"body":"selections, even you know, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":717.27,"endTime":720.48,"body":"again, I'm very upfront with all"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":717.27,"endTime":720.48,"body":"my pricing. Let them know what"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":720.48,"endTime":724.02,"body":"their title look like their"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":720.48,"endTime":724.02,"body":"total look like? Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":724.02,"endTime":726.48,"body":"actually, um, take a few things"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":724.02,"endTime":726.48,"body":"out, it was a full back and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":726.48,"endTime":731.1,"body":"forth, comprehensive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":726.48,"endTime":731.1,"body":"compensation, paid, delivered"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":731.1,"endTime":733.62,"body":"all the products. And after I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":731.1,"endTime":733.62,"body":"had finished delivering all the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":733.62,"endTime":737.61,"body":"products, the other member of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":733.62,"endTime":737.61,"body":"the couple sent me a very"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":737.61,"endTime":743.25,"body":"aggressive email saying that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":737.61,"endTime":743.25,"body":"had misled the other person. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":743.25,"endTime":746.4,"body":"I basically tricked them into"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":743.25,"endTime":746.4,"body":"spending all of this money, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":746.4,"endTime":749.88,"body":"how dare I, and I should"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":746.4,"endTime":749.88,"body":"absolutely give them X, Y and Z"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":749.88,"endTime":753.09,"body":"and compensation. And, and in"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":749.88,"endTime":753.09,"body":"one in the end, that would be a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":753.09,"endTime":756.6,"body":"very great example of very"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":753.09,"endTime":756.6,"body":"aggressive language. Wow. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":756.78,"endTime":760.92,"body":"Very, you know, how are you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":756.78,"endTime":760.92,"body":"going to fix this? Because you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":760.92,"endTime":763.11,"body":"have made a mistake. And we you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":760.92,"endTime":763.11,"body":"know, we had been wrong, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":763.11,"endTime":767.04,"body":"know, very, there was no nuance"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":763.11,"endTime":767.04,"body":"it was very much, this is your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":767.04,"endTime":771.87,"body":"fault. And I didn't even blink."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":767.04,"endTime":771.87,"body":"I mean, I was, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":771.87,"endTime":774.27,"body":"emotional side of me was like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":771.87,"endTime":774.27,"body":"well, that really sucks, because"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":774.27,"endTime":777.21,"body":"I just thought we had this"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":774.27,"endTime":777.21,"body":"great, you know, experience."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":777.21,"endTime":781.32,"body":"Yes, so happy. And they, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":777.21,"endTime":781.32,"body":"know, and I just very calmly"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":781.32,"endTime":784.44,"body":"downloaded the PDFs of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":781.32,"endTime":784.44,"body":"contract that they signed the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":784.44,"endTime":787.5,"body":"invoice that they paid the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":784.44,"endTime":787.5,"body":"pricing, I even have a little"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":787.5,"endTime":790.53,"body":"box at the bottom of my pricing"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":787.5,"endTime":790.53,"body":"sheet that they get before they"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":790.53,"endTime":793.98,"body":"hire me that says yes, I've read"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":790.53,"endTime":793.98,"body":"this pricing. And you can be"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":793.98,"endTime":797.19,"body":"sure that after that experience,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":793.98,"endTime":797.19,"body":"I added another box to my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":797.19,"endTime":800.52,"body":"contract that says, I have read"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":797.19,"endTime":800.52,"body":"the pricing. And I agree to the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":800.52,"endTime":802.95,"body":"policy, you know, every time"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":800.52,"endTime":802.95,"body":"this happens, it's like, Oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":802.95,"endTime":805.44,"body":"just gonna make it even more"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":802.95,"endTime":805.44,"body":"foolproof. And that was the end"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":805.44,"endTime":810.51,"body":"of that. They got the physical"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":805.44,"endTime":810.51,"body":"proof that what they were saying"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":810.51,"endTime":813.42,"body":"was untrue. And I never heard"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":810.51,"endTime":813.42,"body":"from them again. And that felt"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":813.6,"endTime":816.84,"body":"that felt great. Yeah. I had a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":813.6,"endTime":816.84,"body":"slightly more complicated"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":816.84,"endTime":821.97,"body":"situation a few months later,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":816.84,"endTime":821.97,"body":"where a family had hired me for"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":822.0,"endTime":825.9,"body":"like a maternity newborn"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":822.0,"endTime":825.9,"body":"combination. And we did the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":825.9,"endTime":830.61,"body":"maternity session, we did the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":825.9,"endTime":830.61,"body":"you know, image purchase. I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":830.61,"endTime":834.39,"body":"delivered the products."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":830.61,"endTime":834.39,"body":"Everybody was very happy. The"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":834.39,"endTime":838.29,"body":"baby was born. They scheduled"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":834.39,"endTime":838.29,"body":"the newborn session and two days"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":838.29,"endTime":842.07,"body":"before the newborn session. I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":838.29,"endTime":842.07,"body":"got an email that night you know"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":842.07,"endTime":847.11,"body":"what? We've changed our minds."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":842.07,"endTime":847.11,"body":"You know, I at first I was like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":847.11,"endTime":849.6,"body":"you know, they're probably I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":847.11,"endTime":849.6,"body":"very kind of lifestyle"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":849.6,"endTime":852.06,"body":"documentary stat session, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":849.6,"endTime":852.06,"body":"know, style. Maybe they decide"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":852.06,"endTime":854.61,"body":"they want more classic like"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":852.06,"endTime":854.61,"body":"studio newborn set, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":854.88,"endTime":857.34,"body":"that wasn't so bothered. I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":854.88,"endTime":857.34,"body":"disappointed but okay, fine."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":857.37,"endTime":861.15,"body":"Great. I wish you luck. I hope"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":857.37,"endTime":861.15,"body":"the baby's good. And the next"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":861.15,"endTime":864.42,"body":"email was well, yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":861.15,"endTime":864.42,"body":"Where's where's our refund for"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":864.42,"endTime":869.97,"body":"the newborn session? And I? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":864.42,"endTime":869.97,"body":"you mean the non refundable"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":869.97,"endTime":876.87,"body":"session fee that holds? You mean"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":869.97,"endTime":876.87,"body":"that one? And we went back and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":876.87,"endTime":881.79,"body":"forth quite a bit. They were"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":876.87,"endTime":881.79,"body":"just, you know, very quickly"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":881.82,"endTime":888.63,"body":"devolved into very aggressive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":881.82,"endTime":888.63,"body":"again, I owe you have you you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":888.63,"endTime":891.57,"body":"trick people into spending all"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":888.63,"endTime":891.57,"body":"this money and your policies are"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":891.57,"endTime":894.33,"body":"so hidden and your pricing is so"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":891.57,"endTime":894.33,"body":"hidden? And again, I said, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":894.33,"endTime":897.72,"body":"you mean all of this policies"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":894.33,"endTime":897.72,"body":"and the prices that I sent here,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":897.72,"endTime":900.36,"body":"the emails where I sent them to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":897.72,"endTime":900.36,"body":"you and you know, Here's the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":900.36,"endTime":902.25,"body":"email where you said you were"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":900.36,"endTime":902.25,"body":"very happy with everything. You"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":902.25,"endTime":908.31,"body":"know, it was just, it made me"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":902.25,"endTime":908.31,"body":"feel very solid that I had all"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":908.31,"endTime":911.58,"body":"of these things to respond with."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":908.31,"endTime":911.58,"body":"He pushed back hard enough that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":911.58,"endTime":916.35,"body":"I did eventually go to my lawyer"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":911.58,"endTime":916.35,"body":"to say, here's the situation,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":916.38,"endTime":919.05,"body":"you know, in the grand scheme of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":916.38,"endTime":919.05,"body":"things, it's not a huge amount"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":919.05,"endTime":922.56,"body":"of money, but it's the essence"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":919.05,"endTime":922.56,"body":"of the situation principle."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":922.56,"endTime":925.77,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. The principle"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":922.56,"endTime":925.77,"body":"of it, you know, and luckily, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":925.77,"endTime":930.18,"body":"have a kick ass lawyer who was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":925.77,"endTime":930.18,"body":"like, absolutely no, do not give"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":930.18,"endTime":933.36,"body":"in to him. Your your, your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":930.18,"endTime":933.36,"body":"contract is solid, your policies"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":933.36,"endTime":935.64,"body":"are solid. I'll double check"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":933.36,"endTime":935.64,"body":"them for you. Yep, everything"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":935.64,"endTime":938.43,"body":"looks great. You have my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":935.64,"endTime":938.43,"body":"permission to block his email."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":939.96,"endTime":942.42,"body":"And, you know, I won't lie, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":939.96,"endTime":942.42,"body":"still had stomach aches about it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":942.42,"endTime":946.26,"body":"for a good while, because, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":942.42,"endTime":946.26,"body":"know, it doesn't feel good to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":946.26,"endTime":949.53,"body":"have somebody bully you and,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":946.26,"endTime":949.53,"body":"and, you know, accuse you of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":949.53,"endTime":952.14,"body":"things, even if you know that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":949.53,"endTime":952.14,"body":"that's wrong. Yeah. But"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":952.14,"endTime":956.16,"body":"professionally, I felt very"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":952.14,"endTime":956.16,"body":"secure that like, Okay, this is,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":956.19,"endTime":958.77,"body":"this is a sucky thing that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":956.19,"endTime":958.77,"body":"happening in my business. I'm so"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":958.77,"endTime":961.77,"body":"lucky. I've made it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":958.77,"endTime":961.77,"body":"12 years, and this is the first"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":961.77,"endTime":964.41,"body":"time this has really happened."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":961.77,"endTime":964.41,"body":"That was the moment because that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":964.44,"endTime":966.75,"body":"I, you know, that was like an"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":964.44,"endTime":966.75,"body":"ongoing, he wouldn't leave me"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":966.75,"endTime":970.17,"body":"alone for a while. And that was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":966.75,"endTime":970.17,"body":"actually the time when I kept"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":970.17,"endTime":972.9,"body":"going to all like, all my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":970.17,"endTime":972.9,"body":"photographer friends, like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":972.99,"endTime":974.91,"body":"have you ever dealt with"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":972.99,"endTime":974.91,"body":"something like this? What would"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":974.91,"endTime":978.54,"body":"you do? And a lot of them were"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":974.91,"endTime":978.54,"body":"saying, like, it's just a 70."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":978.6,"endTime":983.82,"body":"Yeah, just given. And I just"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":978.6,"endTime":983.82,"body":"knew, you know, a giving him"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":983.82,"endTime":986.49,"body":"what he wanted was not going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":983.82,"endTime":986.49,"body":"make him happy. It was going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":986.49,"endTime":988.71,"body":"make him feel justified and that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":986.49,"endTime":988.71,"body":"it might have even made it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":988.71,"endTime":991.35,"body":"worse, because now I am"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":988.71,"endTime":991.35,"body":"acquiescing to this thing he's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":991.35,"endTime":995.7,"body":"demanding. Who knows now where"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":991.35,"endTime":995.7,"body":"he's going to take it? Sure. It"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":995.7,"endTime":998.43,"body":"just really felt like I had to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":995.7,"endTime":998.43,"body":"shut it down at the start. But"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":998.43,"endTime":1000.86,"body":"it bothered me that so many"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":998.43,"endTime":1000.86,"body":"people were saying, like, it's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1000.86,"endTime":1003.71,"body":"just not worth it. Like, just"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1000.86,"endTime":1003.71,"body":"give in. And I felt like that's,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1003.89,"endTime":1006.71,"body":"that doesn't really do us"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1003.89,"endTime":1006.71,"body":"justice, as business owners to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1006.71,"endTime":1007.22,"body":"do that."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1007.28,"endTime":1012.53,"body":"I absolutely"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1007.28,"endTime":1012.53,"body":"100% on Team Rachel on that,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1012.53,"endTime":1017.72,"body":"like, it is hard. And I've been"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1012.53,"endTime":1017.72,"body":"in that seat a handful of times"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1017.72,"endTime":1021.23,"body":"back when I was a wedding"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1017.72,"endTime":1021.23,"body":"photographer, I had a mother of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1021.23,"endTime":1026.81,"body":"the bride who after what I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1021.23,"endTime":1026.81,"body":"deemed to be like a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1026.81,"endTime":1030.83,"body":"wedding. Like I felt like I had"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1026.81,"endTime":1030.83,"body":"really, you know, it was one of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1030.83,"endTime":1033.47,"body":"those where you don't even think"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1030.83,"endTime":1033.47,"body":"twice about when you're"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1033.47,"endTime":1035.9,"body":"delivering it. There was no I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1033.47,"endTime":1035.9,"body":"was like, Oh, I can't wait for"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1035.9,"endTime":1040.4,"body":"them to see these. And but that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1035.9,"endTime":1040.4,"body":"was my mindset. And sure enough,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1040.4,"endTime":1044.45,"body":"the couple got back to me, and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1040.4,"endTime":1044.45,"body":"they were super happy and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1044.48,"endTime":1047.96,"body":"whatever. And then this like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1044.48,"endTime":1047.96,"body":"mother of the bride came out of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1047.96,"endTime":1052.97,"body":"nowhere, she had never been my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1047.96,"endTime":1052.97,"body":"primary contact. I was. And she"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1053.0,"endTime":1057.05,"body":"like sent me the just like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1053.0,"endTime":1057.05,"body":"dagger in the heart kind of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1057.08,"endTime":1059.93,"body":"email about how I had I mean,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1057.08,"endTime":1059.93,"body":"I'm sure what it came down to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1059.93,"endTime":1062.48,"body":"was she wasn't pleased with how"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1059.93,"endTime":1062.48,"body":"she looked in something. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1062.48,"endTime":1065.69,"body":"we all know that that's like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1062.48,"endTime":1065.69,"body":"what ends up happening. But she"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1065.69,"endTime":1068.27,"body":"was saying, and it was very"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1065.69,"endTime":1068.27,"body":"aggressive. I mean, it was the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1068.27,"endTime":1070.73,"body":"same kind of thing where she"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1068.27,"endTime":1070.73,"body":"was, you know, demanding this,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1070.73,"endTime":1073.79,"body":"that and the other. And this was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1070.73,"endTime":1073.79,"body":"early enough in my business that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1075.08,"endTime":1079.64,"body":"I didn't. I knew kind of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1075.08,"endTime":1079.64,"body":"intellectually that she didn't"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1079.64,"endTime":1084.05,"body":"really have any legal ground to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1079.64,"endTime":1084.05,"body":"stand on. But I did question"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1084.05,"endTime":1089.36,"body":"myself where I was like, Maybe I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1084.05,"endTime":1089.36,"body":"should, you know, offer and I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1089.36,"endTime":1091.76,"body":"was trying to do because with"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1089.36,"endTime":1091.76,"body":"weddings, of course, it is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1091.76,"endTime":1094.88,"body":"tricky. And if you shoot births"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1091.76,"endTime":1094.88,"body":"and events and stuff like that,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1094.88,"endTime":1098.33,"body":"like that's a one shot deal, you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1094.88,"endTime":1098.33,"body":"know, you can't go do those"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1098.33,"endTime":1101.93,"body":"things. So three, stage it Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1098.33,"endTime":1101.93,"body":"right. So I'm sitting there, you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1101.93,"endTime":1104.21,"body":"know, racking my brain about"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1101.93,"endTime":1104.21,"body":"like, how can I make this right?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1104.21,"endTime":1106.58,"body":"How can I make this right? And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1104.21,"endTime":1106.58,"body":"eventually, it occurred to me"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1106.58,"endTime":1111.32,"body":"like, I, I did make this right,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1106.58,"endTime":1111.32,"body":"like, I didn't do anything wrong"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1111.32,"endTime":1114.41,"body":"here. She's unhappy for whatever"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1111.32,"endTime":1114.41,"body":"reason, and I'm sorry that she's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1114.41,"endTime":1119.33,"body":"unhappy. But I can't fix that."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1114.41,"endTime":1119.33,"body":"And it's not something that I'm"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1119.33,"endTime":1122.15,"body":"going to financially fix."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1119.33,"endTime":1122.15,"body":"Because that was the other she"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1122.15,"endTime":1125.12,"body":"was kind of poking at that,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1122.15,"endTime":1125.12,"body":"like, we need money for this."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1125.96,"endTime":1129.62,"body":"And I came to find out down the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1125.96,"endTime":1129.62,"body":"road that mother of the bride"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1129.65,"endTime":1133.46,"body":"had gone and gotten a full"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1129.65,"endTime":1133.46,"body":"refund on the wedding cake,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1133.7,"endTime":1136.91,"body":"which is crazy. She had gotten a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1133.7,"endTime":1136.91,"body":"bunch of money back from the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1136.91,"endTime":1140.54,"body":"florist. And I was like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1136.91,"endTime":1140.54,"body":"this is like her hobby. Like she"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1140.57,"endTime":1143.12,"body":"goes and complains and gets"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1140.57,"endTime":1143.12,"body":"aggressive and gets up in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1143.12,"endTime":1144.92,"body":"people's faces. And I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1145.13,"endTime":1147.98,"body":"like her"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1145.13,"endTime":1147.98,"body":"cocktail party story. Like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1148.01,"endTime":1149.9,"body":"guess what I got? I got the best"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1148.01,"endTime":1149.9,"body":"deal"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1149.9,"endTime":1153.05,"body":"on my daughter's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1149.9,"endTime":1153.05,"body":"wedding by like ruining the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1153.05,"endTime":1155.06,"body":"lives of all of these vendors"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1153.05,"endTime":1155.06,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1155.42,"endTime":1157.46,"body":"guesses"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1155.42,"endTime":1157.46,"body":"probably that are depending on"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1157.46,"endTime":1159.14,"body":"every Yeah."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1159.2,"endTime":1162.02,"body":"And I was it was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1159.2,"endTime":1162.02,"body":"I think that was kind of a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1162.02,"endTime":1166.46,"body":"turning point in my business"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1162.02,"endTime":1166.46,"body":"where I kind of it opened my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1166.46,"endTime":1169.76,"body":"eyes to the fact that those"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1166.46,"endTime":1169.76,"body":"people are out there. And then"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1169.79,"endTime":1174.08,"body":"not that I ever want to assume"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1169.79,"endTime":1174.08,"body":"that of anyone but that you're"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1174.08,"endTime":1177.83,"body":"absolutely right, like having my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1174.08,"endTime":1177.83,"body":"ducks in a row so that I feel"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1177.83,"endTime":1181.82,"body":"like I'm on good legal ground,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1177.83,"endTime":1181.82,"body":"because those people also tend"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1181.82,"endTime":1188.45,"body":"to be or be married to lawyers."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1181.82,"endTime":1188.45,"body":"No offense to lawyers. They"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1188.45,"endTime":1190.91,"body":"definitely are like, Oh, I know"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1188.45,"endTime":1190.91,"body":"how to do this. I know how to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1190.94,"endTime":1192.23,"body":"and they're like a real"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1192.23,"endTime":1194.0,"body":"estate"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1192.23,"endTime":1194.0,"body":"lawyer and that makes them feel"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1194.0,"endTime":1197.42,"body":"like they have the know, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1194.0,"endTime":1197.42,"body":"know, and and that was my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1197.42,"endTime":1199.58,"body":"favorite thing too. I was like"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1197.42,"endTime":1199.58,"body":"yeah, no, I know what lawyers"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1199.58,"endTime":1205.79,"body":"are I pay one yeah to, to make"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1199.58,"endTime":1205.79,"body":"sure that I am, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1206.81,"endTime":1208.55,"body":"running my business like a real"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1206.81,"endTime":1208.55,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.55,"endTime":1211.85,"body":"It's a real business"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.55,"endTime":1211.85,"body":"just not like a real business it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.85,"endTime":1213.86,"body":"is a real business is a real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.85,"endTime":1213.86,"body":"business,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1213.86,"endTime":1217.01,"body":"it has, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1213.86,"endTime":1217.01,"body":"know, legal contracts, and I pay"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1217.01,"endTime":1221.06,"body":"my taxes and like, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1217.01,"endTime":1221.06,"body":"have to take it seriously."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1221.27,"endTime":1224.36,"body":"And you put the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1221.27,"endTime":1224.36,"body":"effort in and I say you and I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1224.39,"endTime":1229.28,"body":"say I'm going to use the plural"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1224.39,"endTime":1229.28,"body":"you we put so much effort and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1229.28,"endTime":1232.97,"body":"time and care and energy into"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1229.28,"endTime":1232.97,"body":"what we provide for people. And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1232.97,"endTime":1236.9,"body":"I think that when we are called"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1232.97,"endTime":1236.9,"body":"on these kinds of situations,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1236.9,"endTime":1239.33,"body":"and somebody is trying to poke"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1236.9,"endTime":1239.33,"body":"holes in that it's really"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1239.33,"endTime":1246.29,"body":"important to be able to step"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1239.33,"endTime":1246.29,"body":"back. Like, no, no, I know what"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1246.29,"endTime":1249.05,"body":"I do here. I'm not trying to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1246.29,"endTime":1249.05,"body":"swindle anybody out of their"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1249.05,"endTime":1250.01,"body":"money. Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1250.07,"endTime":1252.23,"body":"I'm a big"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1250.07,"endTime":1252.23,"body":"fan of waiting a day. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1252.23,"endTime":1256.49,"body":"before you respond to any of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1252.23,"endTime":1256.49,"body":"that sort of aggression. I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1256.49,"endTime":1259.79,"body":"also a big fan of drafting the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1256.49,"endTime":1259.79,"body":"email that you want to write,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1260.0,"endTime":1264.38,"body":"and maybe sharing it with a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1260.0,"endTime":1264.38,"body":"friend, but not actually sending"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1264.38,"endTime":1267.23,"body":"it. Yeah, getting it out of your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1264.38,"endTime":1267.23,"body":"system, you know, because that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1267.23,"endTime":1270.14,"body":"energy has to go somewhere to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1267.23,"endTime":1270.14,"body":"get back to the idea of like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1270.14,"endTime":1274.19,"body":"using specific language, when"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1270.14,"endTime":1274.19,"body":"you're in those situations."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1275.39,"endTime":1279.17,"body":"There is a middle ground between"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1275.39,"endTime":1279.17,"body":"being super passive and Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1279.17,"endTime":1282.2,"body":"God, I'm so sorry. And, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1279.17,"endTime":1282.2,"body":"know, how can we make it better?"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1282.2,"endTime":1285.5,"body":"And all you know, and being"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1282.2,"endTime":1285.5,"body":"super aggressive, be like, Fu,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1285.95,"endTime":1288.74,"body":"you're wrong? You know, right,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1285.95,"endTime":1288.74,"body":"what we really what a lot of us"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1288.74,"endTime":1294.11,"body":"maybe would like to say, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1288.74,"endTime":1294.11,"body":"you know, and what I have found,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1294.11,"endTime":1296.93,"body":"you know, this is the extreme"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1294.11,"endTime":1296.93,"body":"example of kind of what I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1296.93,"endTime":1299.81,"body":"talking about. But when you are"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1296.93,"endTime":1299.81,"body":"being met with that sort of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1299.81,"endTime":1306.98,"body":"extreme aggression, like, serene"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1299.81,"endTime":1306.98,"body":"neutrality is the best way to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1306.98,"endTime":1311.87,"body":"respond. No emotion, no passive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1306.98,"endTime":1311.87,"body":"language, no super aggressive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1311.87,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"language, just facts. You know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1311.87,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"and both times that I dealt with"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1316.46,"endTime":1322.22,"body":"these men who were coming at me"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1316.46,"endTime":1322.22,"body":"about how I run my business, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1322.22,"endTime":1325.22,"body":"did not address any of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1322.22,"endTime":1325.22,"body":"emotional stuff in their emails."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1325.22,"endTime":1328.49,"body":"I didn't say like, I'm so sorry,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1325.22,"endTime":1328.49,"body":"you're upset? I'm so you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1328.49,"endTime":1330.56,"body":"I'm so sorry. You feel cuz? You"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1328.49,"endTime":1330.56,"body":"know, I didn't. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1330.56,"endTime":1333.53,"body":"apologize for any of their big"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1330.56,"endTime":1333.53,"body":"feelings, because I was very"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1333.53,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"sure that their feelings were"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1333.53,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"their own and not my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1336.02,"endTime":1338.18,"body":"responsibility, right. So I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1336.02,"endTime":1338.18,"body":"didn't even I didn't even"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1338.18,"endTime":1340.49,"body":"address it. We didn't even talk"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1338.18,"endTime":1340.49,"body":"about it. In the email. All I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1340.49,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"said was here, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1340.49,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"one first case, here's the PDF"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1345.17,"endTime":1348.8,"body":"of the contract. Here's the PDF"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1345.17,"endTime":1348.8,"body":"of the invoice, here's a copy of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1348.8,"endTime":1352.52,"body":"the, you know, here's the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1348.8,"endTime":1352.52,"body":"information that you need to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1352.52,"endTime":1356.99,"body":"clear up what you're what you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1352.52,"endTime":1356.99,"body":"talking about. In that case,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1356.99,"endTime":1359.0,"body":"actually, he was demand, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1356.99,"endTime":1359.0,"body":"know, they hadn't purchased all"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1359.0,"endTime":1361.7,"body":"of the digital images. And he"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1359.0,"endTime":1361.7,"body":"was demanding that I give them"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1361.7,"endTime":1365.51,"body":"to him. And so in that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1361.7,"endTime":1365.51,"body":"particular instance, I said, if"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1365.51,"endTime":1367.64,"body":"you would like to purchase the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1365.51,"endTime":1367.64,"body":"remainder of your gallery, this"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1367.64,"endTime":1372.08,"body":"is how much it would cost me to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1367.64,"endTime":1372.08,"body":"send you an invoice. Please let"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1372.08,"endTime":1376.76,"body":"me know if you'd like me to do"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1372.08,"endTime":1376.76,"body":"that for you. All the best. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1376.76,"endTime":1379.7,"body":"then we archive that email. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1376.76,"endTime":1379.7,"body":"I never heard from him again."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1379.73,"endTime":1385.88,"body":"With the other one. Again, it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1379.73,"endTime":1385.88,"body":"was so hard to not respond as a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1385.88,"endTime":1391.55,"body":"human being Yes. Like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1385.88,"endTime":1391.55,"body":"they're being so hurtful. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1391.73,"endTime":1396.29,"body":"And you want to say, Hey, you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1391.73,"endTime":1396.29,"body":"being so hurtful? Yeah. How can"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1396.29,"endTime":1399.95,"body":"you possibly think you deserve"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1396.29,"endTime":1399.95,"body":"any of these things that you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1399.95,"endTime":1403.76,"body":"asking of me? A human being,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1399.95,"endTime":1403.76,"body":"you're asking me a human being"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1403.79,"endTime":1408.23,"body":"to take this abuse from you and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1403.79,"endTime":1408.23,"body":"give you something? Yes, this is"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1408.23,"endTime":1412.31,"body":"not the universe that we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1408.23,"endTime":1412.31,"body":"operating in. And again, I wrote"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1412.31,"endTime":1416.06,"body":"those versions of the emails out"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1412.31,"endTime":1416.06,"body":"some of them I even sent to my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1416.06,"endTime":1419.45,"body":"lawyer of like, this is what I'd"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1416.06,"endTime":1419.45,"body":"really like to say. And she"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1419.45,"endTime":1423.86,"body":"would write back and say just"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1419.45,"endTime":1423.86,"body":"say just the facts ma'am. There"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1423.89,"endTime":1427.94,"body":"there is no refund on non"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1423.89,"endTime":1427.94,"body":"refundable session fees here"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1427.94,"endTime":1430.28,"body":"again as a copy of the contract"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1427.94,"endTime":1430.28,"body":"for your records,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1431.27,"endTime":1432.92,"body":"which let me"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1431.27,"endTime":1432.92,"body":"know if you have any further"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1432.92,"endTime":1434.93,"body":"questions, though please please"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1434.93,"endTime":1436.25,"body":"never"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1434.93,"endTime":1436.25,"body":"contact me again."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1439.19,"endTime":1439.67,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1440.33,"endTime":1443.06,"body":"yeah. So but"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1440.33,"endTime":1443.06,"body":"the other end of those things"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1443.06,"endTime":1444.8,"body":"you know, because you could have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1443.06,"endTime":1444.8,"body":"like you were kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1444.8,"endTime":1450.2,"body":"referencing you can have more"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1444.8,"endTime":1450.2,"body":"lower level conflicts with"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1450.2,"endTime":1453.17,"body":"clients and inquiries you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1450.2,"endTime":1453.17,"body":"you can have inquiries that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1453.17,"endTime":1456.14,"body":"respond like oh my god, your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1453.17,"endTime":1456.14,"body":"prices are outrageous or this is"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1456.17,"endTime":1459.02,"body":"Virginia you know, you can have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1456.17,"endTime":1459.02,"body":"people like that which honestly,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1461.18,"body":"most the time I don't even"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1461.18,"body":"respond to them like okay,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1461.21,"endTime":1463.37,"body":"thanks for letting me know that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1461.21,"endTime":1463.37,"body":"you're going a different way and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1463.37,"endTime":1467.87,"body":"I you know, I'm done with that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1463.37,"endTime":1467.87,"body":"don't need to debate you. You"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1467.87,"endTime":1470.96,"body":"know, maybe you have a client"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1467.87,"endTime":1470.96,"body":"we've gone through the process"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1470.96,"endTime":1473.75,"body":"with and they are upset about"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1470.96,"endTime":1473.75,"body":"the way their photos look or the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1473.75,"endTime":1477.65,"body":"way that a you know, an album"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1473.75,"endTime":1477.65,"body":"turned out you know, whatever it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1477.65,"endTime":1482.0,"body":"might be like an actual customer"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1477.65,"endTime":1482.0,"body":"service level problem. But"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1482.0,"endTime":1485.87,"body":"again, you don't have to kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1482.0,"endTime":1485.87,"body":"throw yourself under the wheel."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1486.89,"endTime":1489.92,"body":"You go and you check your you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1486.89,"endTime":1489.92,"body":"know, you check your lists I did"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1489.92,"endTime":1494.6,"body":"I do all of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1489.92,"endTime":1494.6,"body":"expect of myself as a business."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1495.65,"endTime":1499.31,"body":"Sometimes you didn't check about"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1495.65,"endTime":1499.31,"body":"you right? I didn't you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1499.31,"endTime":1501.83,"body":"proof this thing. or whatever"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1499.31,"endTime":1501.83,"body":"you can absolutely own up to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1501.83,"endTime":1504.77,"body":"that. Yeah. But something that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1501.83,"endTime":1504.77,"body":"saw several years ago that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1504.77,"endTime":1508.07,"body":"really loved, and I tried to use"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1504.77,"endTime":1508.07,"body":"even in those situations of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1508.07,"endTime":1512.15,"body":"like, if you're somebody who's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1508.07,"endTime":1512.15,"body":"chronically late, don't, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1512.15,"endTime":1514.79,"body":"know, when you finally show up,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1512.15,"endTime":1514.79,"body":"don't say, oh my god, I'm so"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1514.79,"endTime":1517.88,"body":"sorry, I'm late, my car broke"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1514.79,"endTime":1517.88,"body":"down. And my kids had to that,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1517.88,"endTime":1520.37,"body":"you know, like, don't don't show"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1517.88,"endTime":1520.37,"body":"up apologetic and giving"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1520.37,"endTime":1525.35,"body":"excuses, show up with gratitude"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1520.37,"endTime":1525.35,"body":"to the other party. So, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1525.35,"endTime":1527.99,"body":"know, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1525.35,"endTime":1527.99,"body":"being patient, thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1527.99,"endTime":1532.64,"body":"for waiting, you know, shift the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1527.99,"endTime":1532.64,"body":"shift the focus on to the energy"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1532.64,"endTime":1535.82,"body":"that they're giving, right. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1532.64,"endTime":1535.82,"body":"so you know, you have a client"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1535.82,"endTime":1538.49,"body":"who's upset about something,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1535.82,"endTime":1538.49,"body":"thank you so much for bringing"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1538.49,"endTime":1541.49,"body":"this to my attention, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1538.49,"endTime":1541.49,"body":"absolutely going to contact my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1541.49,"endTime":1544.4,"body":"printer and you know, resolve"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1541.49,"endTime":1544.4,"body":"this issue, I had a, like a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1544.4,"endTime":1547.55,"body":"canvas show up with the hanger"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1544.4,"endTime":1547.55,"body":"on the wrong part of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1547.55,"endTime":1550.34,"body":"picture, and it was gonna be"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1547.55,"endTime":1550.34,"body":"upside down. And, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1550.34,"endTime":1554.0,"body":"client was like, I'm, I'm upset."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1550.34,"endTime":1554.0,"body":"This is a really high quality"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1554.0,"endTime":1556.13,"body":"piece. This is supposed to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1554.0,"endTime":1556.13,"body":"like a fine art piece in our"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1556.13,"endTime":1558.98,"body":"house. And I'm like, You're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1556.13,"endTime":1558.98,"body":"absolutely right, I'm gonna look"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1558.98,"endTime":1561.74,"body":"into this, thank you for giving"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1558.98,"endTime":1561.74,"body":"me the chance to, you know, make"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1561.74,"endTime":1565.19,"body":"this right, you know, it was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1561.74,"endTime":1565.19,"body":"much more in that realm of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1565.19,"endTime":1567.77,"body":"speak, as opposed to, oh, my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1565.19,"endTime":1567.77,"body":"God, please forgive me. You're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1567.77,"endTime":1569.87,"body":"right. I'm so sad, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1567.77,"endTime":1569.87,"body":"because then you're putting the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1569.9,"endTime":1573.92,"body":"onus on the other person to then"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1569.9,"endTime":1573.92,"body":"focus it back on you and say,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1573.98,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"Oh, it's okay. I'm so sorry. You"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1573.98,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"know, you're focusing more on"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1580.67,"body":"that interaction, rather than"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1580.67,"body":"Yep, we've identified a problem."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1580.67,"endTime":1581.51,"body":"And now we're going to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1581.54,"endTime":1584.96,"body":"let's fixation."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1581.54,"endTime":1584.96,"body":"Yeah. And I think, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1584.96,"endTime":1588.71,"body":"of the things that I try to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1584.96,"endTime":1588.71,"body":"remind myself in these"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1588.71,"endTime":1593.9,"body":"situations is, if somebody's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1588.71,"endTime":1593.9,"body":"coming at me about something"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1593.9,"endTime":1596.78,"body":"that, like, they're being"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1593.9,"endTime":1596.78,"body":"aggressive, and they're trying,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1596.9,"endTime":1601.88,"body":"it seems like they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1596.9,"endTime":1601.88,"body":"get some sort of, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1601.94,"endTime":1605.66,"body":"like they're trying to play a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1601.94,"endTime":1605.66,"body":"game or something, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1605.66,"endTime":1609.59,"body":"to reward that behavior. For one"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1605.66,"endTime":1609.59,"body":"second, I don't want that person"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1609.59,"endTime":1612.71,"body":"hiring me again, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1609.59,"endTime":1612.71,"body":"them telling you to hire me,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1612.71,"endTime":1617.27,"body":"like, you know, there is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1612.71,"endTime":1617.27,"body":"unfortunately, the potential"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1617.3,"endTime":1620.66,"body":"that somebody like that will go"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1617.3,"endTime":1620.66,"body":"and leave a really bad review."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1621.02,"endTime":1625.73,"body":"And that is a reality in our"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1621.02,"endTime":1625.73,"body":"businesses. I do think that most"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1626.75,"endTime":1629.96,"body":"people out there, if you,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1626.75,"endTime":1629.96,"body":"hopefully, you're doing enough"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1629.96,"endTime":1633.05,"body":"screening that you don't have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1629.96,"endTime":1633.05,"body":"these clients all the time,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1633.05,"endTime":1637.34,"body":"right? Like, you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1633.05,"endTime":1637.34,"body":"just that that is a whole"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1637.34,"endTime":1640.22,"body":"different situation. If you have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1637.34,"endTime":1640.22,"body":"lots of these clients, there's a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1640.25,"endTime":1644.27,"body":"there is an issue. But when you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1640.25,"endTime":1644.27,"body":"get the occasional one off, I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1644.27,"endTime":1648.5,"body":"think that most of us out there"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1644.27,"endTime":1648.5,"body":"reading reviews, can can read"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1648.5,"endTime":1651.95,"body":"that. And the nice thing on"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1648.5,"endTime":1651.95,"body":"Google or you know, wherever"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1651.95,"endTime":1654.05,"body":"else people are leaving reviews,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1651.95,"endTime":1654.05,"body":"is most of the time you have the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1654.05,"endTime":1659.21,"body":"opportunity to respond to a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1654.05,"endTime":1659.21,"body":"review. So, you know, being able"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1659.21,"endTime":1663.59,"body":"to, like, restate what your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1659.21,"endTime":1663.59,"body":"version of the situation is,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1663.62,"endTime":1666.8,"body":"again, in that, like, what did"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1663.62,"endTime":1666.8,"body":"you call it like something"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1666.8,"endTime":1670.28,"body":"serene, like perfectly serene?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1666.8,"endTime":1670.28,"body":"Oh, neutral, and neutral? And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1672.95,"endTime":1677.18,"body":"you know, responding as like the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1672.95,"endTime":1677.18,"body":"voice of reason. Having that one"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1677.18,"endTime":1681.23,"body":"bad review in and among a whole"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1677.18,"endTime":1681.23,"body":"bunch of good reviews? It is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1681.23,"endTime":1682.82,"body":"what it is like no big deal."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1681.23,"endTime":1682.82,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1682.97,"endTime":1685.61,"body":"But I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1682.97,"endTime":1685.61,"body":"actually, I received my very"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1685.61,"endTime":1690.5,"body":"first bad review from one of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1685.61,"endTime":1690.5,"body":"congratulations, oh, I actually"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1690.5,"endTime":1693.68,"body":"didn't respond to that review,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1690.5,"endTime":1693.68,"body":"because I was so kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1693.68,"endTime":1696.71,"body":"embroiled in the email back and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1693.68,"endTime":1696.71,"body":"forth with this person, that the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1696.71,"endTime":1700.49,"body":"review to me was kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1696.71,"endTime":1700.49,"body":"you know, this is like, not, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1700.49,"endTime":1703.1,"body":"regret that I didn't do it, then"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1700.49,"endTime":1703.1,"body":"I don't want to do it now."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1703.1,"endTime":1705.92,"body":"Because I don't want to reopen."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1703.1,"endTime":1705.92,"body":"I didn't want this person to get"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1705.92,"endTime":1708.32,"body":"an email, like, Oh, she"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1705.92,"endTime":1708.32,"body":"responded to your review. You"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1708.32,"endTime":1710.12,"body":"know, I kind of play that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1708.32,"endTime":1710.12,"body":"scenario. And I'm like, Ah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1710.12,"endTime":1713.24,"body":"somebody's gonna see this one"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1710.12,"endTime":1713.24,"body":"unhinged review and be like"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1713.24,"endTime":1717.71,"body":"this, you know, and I actually"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1713.24,"endTime":1717.71,"body":"had a session recently, where"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1717.74,"endTime":1720.68,"body":"the woman who had hired me, we"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1717.74,"endTime":1720.68,"body":"were chatting, oh, I've been"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1720.68,"endTime":1723.41,"body":"following you on Instagram. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1720.68,"endTime":1723.41,"body":"I checked all your reviews"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1723.41,"endTime":1726.53,"body":"there. So I, you know, they're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1723.41,"endTime":1726.53,"body":"so amazing, except for that one."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1727.94,"endTime":1731.66,"body":"And I first was like, oh, no,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1727.94,"endTime":1731.66,"body":"she's the one but then we"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1731.66,"endTime":1734.96,"body":"chatted about it. And she was"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1731.66,"endTime":1734.96,"body":"like, yeah, it was clearly like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1736.01,"endTime":1741.08,"body":"it didn't fit all of the over"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1736.01,"endTime":1741.08,"body":"100 other reviews that I've had."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1741.38,"endTime":1743.81,"body":"And I also kind of thought"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1741.38,"endTime":1743.81,"body":"about, you know, what you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1743.84,"endTime":1746.9,"body":"referenced if like, you don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1743.84,"endTime":1746.9,"body":"want those people who are going"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1746.9,"endTime":1750.29,"body":"to kind of push your boundaries."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1746.9,"endTime":1750.29,"body":"And I kind of thought, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1750.29,"endTime":1753.86,"body":"what, if somebody's going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1750.29,"endTime":1753.86,"body":"look at my over 105 star reviews"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1753.89,"endTime":1757.52,"body":"and see the one negative review,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1753.89,"endTime":1757.52,"body":"and that's why they don't hire"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1757.52,"endTime":1760.49,"body":"me. I think that's probably"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1757.52,"endTime":1760.49,"body":"okay. You probably didn't want"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1760.49,"endTime":1763.4,"body":"to work with that person. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1760.49,"endTime":1763.4,"body":"you know, or if they didn't even"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1763.4,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"just send me an email, like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1763.4,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"I really want to work with you."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1765.53,"endTime":1768.08,"body":"And I'm, I have a question, what"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1765.53,"endTime":1768.08,"body":"is this person referencing? And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1768.08,"endTime":1771.11,"body":"I can, I can explain, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1768.08,"endTime":1771.11,"body":"at least that's what I'm telling"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1771.11,"endTime":1772.22,"body":"myself right now."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1773.15,"endTime":1776.6,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1773.15,"endTime":1776.6,"body":"And I know we're a man, I feel"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1776.6,"endTime":1779.03,"body":"like I could continue talking"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1776.6,"endTime":1779.03,"body":"about this for hours and hours."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1779.06,"endTime":1781.34,"body":"And we sort of talked about this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1779.06,"endTime":1781.34,"body":"in the beginning a little bit"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1781.34,"endTime":1785.72,"body":"about getting your legal ducks"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1781.34,"endTime":1785.72,"body":"in a row, making sure that every"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1785.72,"endTime":1788.84,"body":"time you have some sort of issue"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1785.72,"endTime":1788.84,"body":"you are making space to then go"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1788.84,"endTime":1793.79,"body":"back and like find where you can"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1788.84,"endTime":1793.79,"body":"do a better job with education"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1793.79,"endTime":1797.45,"body":"or whatever. What other kinds of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1793.79,"endTime":1797.45,"body":"strategies or tips do you have?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1797.45,"endTime":1801.11,"body":"And I want to actually take this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1797.45,"endTime":1801.11,"body":"specifically because I think The"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1801.11,"endTime":1803.45,"body":"elephant in the room here is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1801.11,"endTime":1803.45,"body":"that you and I both have been in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1803.45,"endTime":1807.44,"body":"business for a long time. And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1803.45,"endTime":1807.44,"body":"there is a certain amount of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1807.44,"endTime":1812.69,"body":"built in confidence that comes"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1807.44,"endTime":1812.69,"body":"with longevity. Yep. For someone"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1812.69,"endTime":1817.28,"body":"who is new, I don't think and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1812.69,"endTime":1817.28,"body":"you can certainly feel free to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1817.28,"endTime":1820.67,"body":"disagree with me. But I don't"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1817.28,"endTime":1820.67,"body":"think that that is a reason were"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1820.67,"endTime":1824.27,"body":"like, well, because I'm still"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1820.67,"endTime":1824.27,"body":"new, you know, I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1824.27,"endTime":1828.05,"body":"should go and like go the extra"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1824.27,"endTime":1828.05,"body":"mile, whatever. I could see"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1828.05,"endTime":1830.93,"body":"somebody sort of talking"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1828.05,"endTime":1830.93,"body":"themselves into that. And I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1830.93,"endTime":1833.72,"body":"certainly see it all over, you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1830.93,"endTime":1833.72,"body":"know, the Facebook forums where"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1833.72,"endTime":1837.8,"body":"people are like, oh, you should"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1833.72,"endTime":1837.8,"body":"go back and, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1838.1,"endTime":1841.01,"body":"offer them some mow their grass,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1838.1,"endTime":1841.01,"body":"in addition to everything else"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1841.01,"endTime":1844.85,"body":"like, so what would your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1841.01,"endTime":1844.85,"body":"suggestions be for someone who,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1844.85,"endTime":1848.57,"body":"let's say they're just starting"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1844.85,"endTime":1848.57,"body":"out there? They feel, you know,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1848.6,"endTime":1851.87,"body":"even if on the outside, it's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1848.6,"endTime":1851.87,"body":"like the duck above the water?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1851.87,"endTime":1856.37,"body":"You're, you know, placid and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1851.87,"endTime":1856.37,"body":"whatever. And beneath? What"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1856.37,"endTime":1861.74,"body":"would you say to someone at that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1856.37,"endTime":1861.74,"body":"juncture? Who is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1861.77,"endTime":1864.98,"body":"confronted with an issue? Or who"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1861.77,"endTime":1864.98,"body":"is really worried about"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1864.98,"endTime":1867.05,"body":"potentially being confronted in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1864.98,"endTime":1867.05,"body":"a situation?"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1867.05,"endTime":1868.55,"body":"They kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1867.05,"endTime":1868.55,"body":"don't have that confidence"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1868.55,"endTime":1874.13,"body":"already built up? Yeah. Yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1868.55,"endTime":1874.13,"body":"mean, the first thing I would"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1874.13,"endTime":1878.66,"body":"say is that, there's no reason"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1874.13,"endTime":1878.66,"body":"why being a new business, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1878.66,"endTime":1881.9,"body":"have to act like a new business,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1878.66,"endTime":1881.9,"body":"I don't think that you have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1881.9,"endTime":1884.42,"body":"act. You know, I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1881.9,"endTime":1884.42,"body":"lot of folks when they're first"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1884.42,"endTime":1887.3,"body":"starting out, you know, you have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1884.42,"endTime":1887.3,"body":"the imposter syndrome, you don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1887.3,"endTime":1891.71,"body":"have a ton of confidence, a lot"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1887.3,"endTime":1891.71,"body":"of folks kind of go into their"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1891.92,"endTime":1895.34,"body":"early business years, very,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1891.92,"endTime":1895.34,"body":"almost apologetically, from the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1895.34,"endTime":1898.04,"body":"outset of like, I don't really"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1895.34,"endTime":1898.04,"body":"know what I'm doing, please"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1898.04,"endTime":1902.06,"body":"forgive me, you know, preparing"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1898.04,"endTime":1902.06,"body":"for the mistakes before they"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1902.06,"endTime":1905.45,"body":"happen. I don't think you have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1902.06,"endTime":1905.45,"body":"to do that. I think that you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1905.45,"endTime":1909.02,"body":"know, starting off fresh in your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1905.45,"endTime":1909.02,"body":"business, you can do the same"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1909.02,"endTime":1911.57,"body":"things that we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1909.02,"endTime":1911.57,"body":"about, you can get a contract,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1911.57,"endTime":1913.55,"body":"there's, you know, there's the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1911.57,"endTime":1913.55,"body":"law, Todd, there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1913.55,"endTime":1917.48,"body":"resources out there where you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1913.55,"endTime":1917.48,"body":"can buy a template contract, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1917.48,"endTime":1920.75,"body":"go in, and you customize it for"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1917.48,"endTime":1920.75,"body":"yourself, and then you find a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1920.75,"endTime":1924.11,"body":"lawyer in your area who works"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1920.75,"endTime":1924.11,"body":"with professionals in your field"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1924.11,"endTime":1927.17,"body":"and you pay them, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1924.11,"endTime":1927.17,"body":"is one of the costs of starting"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1927.17,"endTime":1931.34,"body":"a business and it is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1927.17,"endTime":1931.34,"body":"worthwhile, it's a high value to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1933.5,"body":"pay a lawyer for a couple of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1933.5,"body":"hours to go through your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1933.5,"endTime":1937.61,"body":"contract, make sure that it's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1933.5,"endTime":1937.61,"body":"great, then you have that from"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1937.61,"endTime":1940.58,"body":"the beginning, you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1937.61,"endTime":1940.58,"body":"go through all of the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1940.58,"endTime":1942.8,"body":"really sharp learning curves of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1940.58,"endTime":1942.8,"body":"oh, that should have been my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1942.8,"endTime":1945.74,"body":"contract, you'll still run into"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1942.8,"endTime":1945.74,"body":"things, there are still things"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1945.74,"endTime":1948.8,"body":"as you, you know, I really would"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1945.74,"endTime":1948.8,"body":"love that to never happen again,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1948.8,"endTime":1951.5,"body":"and you'll go put that on your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1948.8,"endTime":1951.5,"body":"contract. But starting off with"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1951.5,"endTime":1953.24,"body":"that really solid footing, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1951.5,"endTime":1953.24,"body":"think is something that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1953.24,"endTime":1955.64,"body":"everybody can do, you don't have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1953.24,"endTime":1955.64,"body":"to be in business for a decade,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1955.79,"endTime":1958.79,"body":"to then, you know, pay a lawyer"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1955.79,"endTime":1958.79,"body":"to make sure your contract is"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1958.79,"endTime":1962.15,"body":"solid, I do think there's a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1958.79,"endTime":1962.15,"body":"little bit of fake it till you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1962.15,"endTime":1966.95,"body":"make it in those early years,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1962.15,"endTime":1966.95,"body":"and, you know, in circumstances"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1966.98,"endTime":1973.13,"body":"after them, but part of what I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1966.98,"endTime":1973.13,"body":"do even now, when I look at my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1973.13,"endTime":1977.27,"body":"emails that I'm writing to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1973.13,"endTime":1977.27,"body":"clients is I check, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1977.27,"endTime":1979.4,"body":"have a mental list, but you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1977.27,"endTime":1979.4,"body":"could make a list next to your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1979.4,"endTime":1985.07,"body":"computer screen of the most"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1979.4,"endTime":1985.07,"body":"commonly used kind of passive"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1985.46,"endTime":1989.36,"body":"words that we tend to throw into"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1985.46,"endTime":1989.36,"body":"things when we're feeling"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1989.69,"endTime":1995.42,"body":"insecure. Things like just only"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1989.69,"endTime":1995.42,"body":"if maybe could you know all of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1995.42,"endTime":1998.66,"body":"these things that give a little"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1995.42,"endTime":1998.66,"body":"bit of space of like, maybe I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1998.66,"endTime":2001.12,"body":"don't really know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":1998.66,"endTime":2001.12,"body":"talking about. But if you agree,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2001.12,"endTime":2005.59,"body":"I guess we could do it this way,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2001.12,"endTime":2005.59,"body":"you know, and editing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2005.65,"endTime":2009.85,"body":"aside from looking for those"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2005.65,"endTime":2009.85,"body":"specific words, say things in as"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2009.85,"endTime":2015.67,"body":"few sentences as possible, be"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2009.85,"endTime":2015.67,"body":"efficient. And that way it gives"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2015.67,"endTime":2019.69,"body":"you less space to add in that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2015.67,"endTime":2019.69,"body":"kind of cushioning language of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2020.14,"endTime":2022.99,"body":"just if they're asking how much"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2020.14,"endTime":2022.99,"body":"your session is, here's the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2022.99,"endTime":2026.98,"body":"session fee. This is what it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2022.99,"endTime":2026.98,"body":"covers. This is the next step. I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2026.98,"endTime":2029.02,"body":"would love to chat if you have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2026.98,"endTime":2029.02,"body":"any other questions like it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2029.02,"endTime":2031.96,"body":"doesn't have to be a whole lot"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2029.02,"endTime":2031.96,"body":"more than that. Yeah. Because if"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2031.96,"endTime":2035.05,"body":"you start, you know, oh, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2035.05,"endTime":2037.24,"body":"is my session fee. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2035.05,"endTime":2037.24,"body":"yes, it doesn't include any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.24,"endTime":2039.88,"body":"Digital's but what you get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.24,"endTime":2039.88,"body":"instead is this and that. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2039.88,"endTime":2040.06,"body":"gets"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2040.06,"endTime":2042.46,"body":"kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2040.06,"endTime":2042.46,"body":"setting up your potential client"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2042.46,"endTime":2044.71,"body":"to be like, Okay, well, clearly,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2042.46,"endTime":2044.71,"body":"I'm not getting anything I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2044.71,"endTime":2048.58,"body":"should getting. And I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2044.71,"endTime":2048.58,"body":"be expecting more from this"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2048.61,"endTime":2052.51,"body":"business going forward, because"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2048.61,"endTime":2052.51,"body":"they're already setting me up"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2052.51,"endTime":2056.53,"body":"that they know, or they don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2052.51,"endTime":2056.53,"body":"feel confident in what they're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2056.53,"endTime":2058.81,"body":"offering me. Why should be"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2056.53,"endTime":2058.81,"body":"expecting more."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2059.92,"endTime":2063.07,"body":"And I think that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2059.92,"endTime":2063.07,"body":"that exactly what you just said"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2063.07,"endTime":2068.77,"body":"that subtext is not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2063.07,"endTime":2068.77,"body":"something that registers in the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2068.8,"endTime":2073.33,"body":"conscious part of the recipients"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2068.8,"endTime":2073.33,"body":"brain, but it is funny how it"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2073.33,"endTime":2078.79,"body":"sets the tone for the overall"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2073.33,"endTime":2078.79,"body":"relationship. When right out of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2078.79,"endTime":2083.92,"body":"the gate, somebody is saying,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2078.79,"endTime":2083.92,"body":"you know, my fee is this I know"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2083.92,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"that that's kind of high but"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2083.92,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"blah, blah, blah, and then"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2086.5,"endTime":2091.66,"body":"defending it. Like I feel like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2086.5,"endTime":2091.66,"body":"that defensive language comes"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2091.66,"endTime":2095.56,"body":"very naturally when you are"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2091.66,"endTime":2095.56,"body":"feeling insecure and it is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2095.62,"endTime":2099.01,"body":"really important to edit"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2095.62,"endTime":2099.01,"body":"yourself. You know that I'm a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2099.01,"endTime":2101.44,"body":"big fan, anybody who lives And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2099.01,"endTime":2101.44,"body":"so this podcast knows that I am"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2101.44,"endTime":2104.95,"body":"a huge fan of getting on the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2101.44,"endTime":2104.95,"body":"phone. But and I'll put a big"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2104.95,"endTime":2108.64,"body":"asterisk beside that when you've"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2104.95,"endTime":2108.64,"body":"got someone who is aggressively"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2108.67,"endTime":2111.85,"body":"like coming at, you definitely"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2108.67,"endTime":2111.85,"body":"keep a written record of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2111.85,"endTime":2114.01,"body":"everything that's happening. So"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2111.85,"endTime":2114.01,"body":"that's a good time to go back"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2114.01,"endTime":2115.0,"body":"and forth via email."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2115.27,"endTime":2117.13,"body":"And even if"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2115.27,"endTime":2117.13,"body":"you have chatted on the phone,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2117.13,"endTime":2120.22,"body":"send them an email right after"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2117.13,"endTime":2120.22,"body":"that summarizes what you just"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2120.22,"endTime":2121.33,"body":"spoke about. Right,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2121.36,"endTime":2123.64,"body":"exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2121.36,"endTime":2123.64,"body":"then in terms of like, if you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2123.64,"endTime":2128.17,"body":"are in a place where you are"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2123.64,"endTime":2128.17,"body":"feeling super insecure, either"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2128.2,"endTime":2132.49,"body":"get yourself a lot of practice"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2128.2,"endTime":2132.49,"body":"before you get on the phone, or"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2132.49,"endTime":2135.73,"body":"just give yourself a little bit"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2132.49,"endTime":2135.73,"body":"of extra time with writing that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2135.73,"endTime":2139.03,"body":"out. Now, I still think that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2135.73,"endTime":2139.03,"body":"right? You know, the written"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2139.03,"endTime":2143.95,"body":"communication isn't as good when"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2139.03,"endTime":2143.95,"body":"it comes to developing rapport"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2143.95,"endTime":2146.41,"body":"and building trust and all that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2143.95,"endTime":2146.41,"body":"sort of thing. But if you're"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2146.41,"endTime":2150.31,"body":"gonna get on the phone and make"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2146.41,"endTime":2150.31,"body":"excuses, and apologies and all"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2150.31,"endTime":2152.74,"body":"that sort of thing, and like,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2150.31,"endTime":2152.74,"body":"immediately be like, nevermind,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2152.74,"endTime":2155.56,"body":"my prices are a quarter of what"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2152.74,"endTime":2155.56,"body":"I just said, then you're not"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2155.56,"endTime":2157.18,"body":"ready, like, and that's okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2157.21,"endTime":2159.55,"body":"It's just,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2157.21,"endTime":2159.55,"body":"you know, and I think the other"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2159.55,"endTime":2164.14,"body":"part of the value of like, what"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2159.55,"endTime":2164.14,"body":"can make written communication"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2164.14,"endTime":2167.5,"body":"more valuable is if it does"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2164.14,"endTime":2167.5,"body":"sound the way that you speak."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2168.22,"endTime":2171.73,"body":"And those can, they can kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2168.22,"endTime":2171.73,"body":"lead back and forth. So like, if"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2171.73,"endTime":2179.77,"body":"you get more comfortable"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2171.73,"endTime":2179.77,"body":"emailing, in a confident,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2179.77,"endTime":2183.13,"body":"professional voice, that still"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2179.77,"endTime":2183.13,"body":"sounds like you, you don't have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2183.13,"endTime":2184.96,"body":"to sound like a lawyer, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2183.13,"endTime":2184.96,"body":"don't have to sound like"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2184.96,"endTime":2189.4,"body":"somebody else's business tone."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2184.96,"endTime":2189.4,"body":"But it sounds like you, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2189.4,"endTime":2191.59,"body":"you're just going to you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2189.4,"endTime":2191.59,"body":"going to practice not"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2191.59,"endTime":2193.99,"body":"apologizing for what you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2191.59,"endTime":2193.99,"body":"saying, you're going to, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2193.99,"endTime":2197.86,"body":"know, even things of like, if"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2193.99,"endTime":2197.86,"body":"you decide to book with me, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2197.86,"endTime":2200.56,"body":"instead say, when you decide to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2197.86,"endTime":2200.56,"body":"book with me, this will be the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2200.56,"endTime":2205.3,"body":"next step, just those little"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2200.56,"endTime":2205.3,"body":"tweaks in how you communicate to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2205.3,"endTime":2208.0,"body":"your client is going to put them"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2205.3,"endTime":2208.0,"body":"in a different mindset. And then"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2208.0,"endTime":2210.91,"body":"if you do get on the phone,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2208.0,"endTime":2210.91,"body":"think about how you wrote it out"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2210.91,"endTime":2214.36,"body":"in your email and do the same"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2210.91,"endTime":2214.36,"body":"thing. Just go through the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2214.36,"endTime":2216.82,"body":"bullet points, say I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2214.36,"endTime":2216.82,"body":"explain how my sessions worked."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2216.82,"endTime":2218.86,"body":"You first you're going to pay"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2216.82,"endTime":2218.86,"body":"the session fee, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2218.86,"endTime":2221.32,"body":"hold your spot on my calendar,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2218.86,"endTime":2221.32,"body":"we're going to have an amazing"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2221.32,"endTime":2223.72,"body":"session. It'll last about an"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2221.32,"endTime":2223.72,"body":"hour, couple weeks, let you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2223.72,"endTime":2228.25,"body":"know, say everything is if it's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2223.72,"endTime":2228.25,"body":"a fact. And it's still neutral."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2228.28,"endTime":2230.5,"body":"You're not being aggressive."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2228.28,"endTime":2230.5,"body":"You're not like you absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2230.5,"endTime":2234.37,"body":"you know, yep, it's just serene"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2230.5,"endTime":2234.37,"body":"and neutral. Yeah, here's the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2234.37,"endTime":2238.39,"body":"information. And if they push"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2234.37,"endTime":2238.39,"body":"back, then you can have a more"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2238.39,"endTime":2242.05,"body":"dynamic conversation about like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2238.39,"endTime":2242.05,"body":"oh, gosh, are you while you're,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2242.05,"endTime":2244.69,"body":"you know, the images aren't"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2242.05,"endTime":2244.69,"body":"included in the session fee?"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2244.72,"endTime":2247.48,"body":"Nope. And what I found is that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2244.72,"endTime":2247.48,"body":"my clients really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2247.48,"endTime":2250.15,"body":"being able to see the images"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2247.48,"endTime":2250.15,"body":"before they decide what they're"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2250.15,"endTime":2252.97,"body":"going to purchase, and it works"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2250.15,"endTime":2252.97,"body":"out really well. And I'm here to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2252.97,"endTime":2255.28,"body":"help you the whole way, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2252.97,"endTime":2255.28,"body":"really great at helping people"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2255.28,"endTime":2257.38,"body":"make decisions and pick out the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2255.28,"endTime":2257.38,"body":"images they're gonna love"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2257.38,"endTime":2260.47,"body":"forever. And that's the same"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2257.38,"endTime":2260.47,"body":"thing. I'm gonna say my email"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2260.5,"endTime":2263.62,"body":"and you get, you get more of my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2260.5,"endTime":2263.62,"body":"personality hearing out of my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2263.62,"endTime":2267.19,"body":"voice. But the message is the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2263.62,"endTime":2267.19,"body":"same, the wording is the same."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2267.19,"endTime":2270.19,"body":"I'm not going to try to sound"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2267.19,"endTime":2270.19,"body":"more formal in my email, if"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2270.19,"endTime":2272.32,"body":"that's not how I communicate."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2270.19,"endTime":2272.32,"body":"Yes, I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2272.59,"endTime":2276.07,"body":"love that. There"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2272.59,"endTime":2276.07,"body":"have been times in my business"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2276.1,"endTime":2280.78,"body":"where I have literally pretended"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2276.1,"endTime":2280.78,"body":"in my mind that I was my own"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2280.78,"endTime":2285.07,"body":"very well paid administrative"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2280.78,"endTime":2285.07,"body":"assistant. And then I just"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2285.07,"endTime":2291.04,"body":"switched out the like she for I."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2285.07,"endTime":2291.04,"body":"But I sometimes feel like, well,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2291.04,"endTime":2294.64,"body":"if I were speaking for my boss,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2291.04,"endTime":2294.64,"body":"I would have much more like,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2294.64,"endTime":2297.43,"body":"well, this is what the these are"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2294.64,"endTime":2297.43,"body":"the rules. And this is what the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2297.43,"endTime":2301.93,"body":"policies are inheriting prices."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2297.43,"endTime":2301.93,"body":"And it just feels less and less,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2301.96,"endTime":2306.22,"body":"I don't know, inclined to get"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2301.96,"endTime":2306.22,"body":"defensive or make excuses or"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2306.22,"endTime":2309.94,"body":"feel nervous. I don't know. So"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2306.22,"endTime":2309.94,"body":"if that tricks, I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2309.94,"endTime":2310.84,"body":"help anybody else."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2311.47,"endTime":2314.32,"body":"I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2311.47,"endTime":2314.32,"body":"I do the same thing. And I also,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2315.16,"endTime":2318.58,"body":"when I feel myself getting ready"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2315.16,"endTime":2318.58,"body":"to defend something, remind"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2318.58,"endTime":2322.15,"body":"myself to just say, Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2318.58,"endTime":2322.15,"body":"what it is. Someone says like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2322.15,"endTime":2325.3,"body":"gosh, this package is really"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2322.15,"endTime":2325.3,"body":"expensive. Yeah, that's what it"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2325.3,"endTime":2327.97,"body":"costs. This is what it includes."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2325.3,"endTime":2327.97,"body":"Let me know if you have any"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2327.97,"endTime":2331.51,"body":"questions, you know, because and"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2327.97,"endTime":2331.51,"body":"that's a big part of finding"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2331.51,"endTime":2335.23,"body":"clients that are going to be a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2331.51,"endTime":2335.23,"body":"good fit for you too, is, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2335.23,"endTime":2339.01,"body":"more upfront you are with what"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2335.23,"endTime":2339.01,"body":"you provide and what it's going"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2339.01,"endTime":2342.19,"body":"to cost and how valuable you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2339.01,"endTime":2342.19,"body":"think it is. And I have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2342.19,"endTime":2345.76,"body":"literally said to people, if"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2342.19,"endTime":2345.76,"body":"this is not in your budget, by"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2345.76,"endTime":2349.81,"body":"all means, please do not book"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2345.76,"endTime":2349.81,"body":"me. Yeah, I you know, I do not"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2349.81,"endTime":2352.18,"body":"want to work with people that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2349.81,"endTime":2352.18,"body":"this feels like pulling teeth"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2352.18,"endTime":2356.56,"body":"with you, I want you to be so"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2352.18,"endTime":2356.56,"body":"excited to spend the money on"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2356.56,"endTime":2359.47,"body":"what I'm going to create for"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2356.56,"endTime":2359.47,"body":"you. And that's you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2359.47,"endTime":2362.41,"body":"why it's so difficult when"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2359.47,"endTime":2362.41,"body":"people try to come back and say"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2362.41,"endTime":2367.66,"body":"but you trip and I'm like, That"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2362.41,"endTime":2367.66,"body":"is why would I do that? Why? Why"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2367.66,"endTime":2369.91,"body":"would that I would have"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2367.66,"endTime":2369.91,"body":"everybody coming to me saying oh"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2369.91,"endTime":2373.54,"body":"my god, I can't believe these"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2369.91,"endTime":2373.54,"body":"prices. That sounds terrible."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2374.17,"endTime":2378.37,"body":"Why would I have done that? I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2374.17,"endTime":2378.37,"body":"would never hide the information"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2378.37,"endTime":2381.22,"body":"from the person that I want to"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2378.37,"endTime":2381.22,"body":"be excited about. You know,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2381.25,"endTime":2382.72,"body":"I mean, if I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2381.25,"endTime":2382.72,"body":"were gonna go to the trouble of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2382.72,"endTime":2386.32,"body":"being a con artist, I would try"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2382.72,"endTime":2386.32,"body":"and do it in a much higher"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2386.32,"endTime":2386.65,"body":"price."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2389.53,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"If I wanted"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2389.53,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"to take you that whole different"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2391.51,"endTime":2392.2,"body":"conversation,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2393.49,"endTime":2396.1,"body":"man. Well,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2393.49,"endTime":2396.1,"body":"Rachel, this has been an amazing"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2396.1,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"conversation. I've really"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2396.1,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"enjoyed it. I would love every"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.77,"body":"one out there to know where they"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.77,"body":"can contact you follow you get"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2404.77,"endTime":2407.59,"body":"to know you better. I know you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2404.77,"endTime":2407.59,"body":"do some one on one mentoring"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2407.59,"endTime":2408.19,"body":"too, right?"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2408.87,"endTime":2412.68,"body":"Yeah. So my"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2408.87,"endTime":2412.68,"body":"website is my very long name"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2412.68,"endTime":2417.93,"body":"RachelUtainEvans.com If you even"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2412.68,"endTime":2417.93,"body":"Google Utain UTA i n, I should"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2417.93,"endTime":2419.94,"body":"show up right away, because"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2417.93,"endTime":2419.94,"body":"there's not very many of us out"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2419.94,"endTime":2424.38,"body":"there on Instagram, I am"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2419.94,"endTime":2424.38,"body":"RachelUEphoto. And you can kind"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2424.38,"endTime":2427.62,"body":"of find all my stuff there. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2424.38,"endTime":2427.62,"body":"then yeah, I offer hourly"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2427.62,"endTime":2432.06,"body":"mentoring for folks in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2427.62,"endTime":2432.06,"body":"photography world. And I kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2432.06,"endTime":2435.36,"body":"call it open book mentoring. So"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2432.06,"endTime":2435.36,"body":"really, anywhere that you are in"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2435.36,"endTime":2438.81,"body":"your business career, anywhere"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2435.36,"endTime":2438.81,"body":"you are in your creative career,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2439.08,"endTime":2441.78,"body":"if there's just something that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2439.08,"endTime":2441.78,"body":"you feel stuck on, and you need"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2441.78,"endTime":2444.99,"body":"somebody to really, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2441.78,"endTime":2444.99,"body":"kind of help you get over that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2444.99,"endTime":2448.8,"body":"hump, or, you know, turn the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2444.99,"endTime":2448.8,"body":"light on where you've been a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2448.8,"endTime":2452.55,"body":"little bit stuck. That that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2448.8,"endTime":2452.55,"body":"really the type of work that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2452.55,"endTime":2455.43,"body":"really love doing with other"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2452.55,"endTime":2455.43,"body":"photographers is helping helping"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2455.43,"endTime":2457.5,"body":"you look at things in a"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2455.43,"endTime":2457.5,"body":"different way and making you"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2457.5,"endTime":2458.22,"body":"feel confident."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2458.77,"endTime":2463.27,"body":"And I love your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2458.77,"endTime":2463.27,"body":"level headed, thoughtful"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2463.27,"endTime":2466.87,"body":"approach, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2463.27,"endTime":2466.87,"body":"sometimes what we all need is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2466.87,"endTime":2470.68,"body":"just somebody to bounce ideas"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2466.87,"endTime":2470.68,"body":"off of who can take all the mess"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2470.68,"endTime":2475.21,"body":"that's in our minds and sort of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2470.68,"endTime":2475.21,"body":"speak it back to us and saying,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2475.45,"endTime":2479.02,"body":"I think maybe you've got this a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2475.45,"endTime":2479.02,"body":"little twisted here. And yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2479.02,"endTime":2480.91,"body":"know that you're so good at"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2479.02,"endTime":2480.91,"body":"doing that. So"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2481.6,"endTime":2486.97,"body":"I I joke"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2481.6,"endTime":2486.97,"body":"that I do love people absolutely"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2486.97,"endTime":2489.94,"body":"do that. You know, I'm trained"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2486.97,"endTime":2489.94,"body":"in birth doula, but I think that"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2489.94,"endTime":2493.69,"body":"I use those skills in all the"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2489.94,"endTime":2493.69,"body":"other aspects of my life. And"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2493.72,"endTime":2497.62,"body":"you know, I use doula as a verb."},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2493.72,"endTime":2497.62,"body":"I can doula you through your"},{"speaker":"Rachel Utain-Evans","startTime":2498.67,"endTime":2499.18,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2501.04,"endTime":2502.96,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2501.04,"endTime":2502.96,"body":"Well, business is certainly a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2502.96,"endTime":2508.54,"body":"labor of sorts. So. Well, this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2502.96,"endTime":2508.54,"body":"has been a pleasure. I look"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2508.54,"endTime":2512.14,"body":"forward to chatting with you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2508.54,"endTime":2512.14,"body":"again, hopefully, very soon. And"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2512.53,"endTime":2514.03,"body":"yeah, we'll talk soon."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2514.6,"endTime":2517.69,"body":"Yeah, it's been great."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2514.6,"endTime":2517.69,"body":"Thanks. Well, that's it for"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2517.69,"endTime":2519.43,"body":"this week's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2517.69,"endTime":2519.43,"body":"episode of This can't be that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2519.43,"endTime":2523.39,"body":"hard. I'll be back Same time,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2519.43,"endTime":2523.39,"body":"same place next week. In the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2523.39,"endTime":2526.42,"body":"meantime, you can find more"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2523.39,"endTime":2526.42,"body":"information about this episode,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2526.48,"endTime":2529.96,"body":"along with all the relevant"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2526.48,"endTime":2529.96,"body":"links, notes and downloads at"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2529.96,"endTime":2533.68,"body":"this can't be that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2529.96,"endTime":2533.68,"body":"hard.com/learn If you liked the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2533.68,"endTime":2537.22,"body":"podcast, be sure to hit the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2533.68,"endTime":2537.22,"body":"subscribe button. Even better,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2537.4,"endTime":2541.03,"body":"share the love by leaving a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2537.4,"endTime":2541.03,"body":"review on iTunes. And as always,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2541.21,"endTime":2544.75,"body":"thanks so much for joining me. I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2541.21,"endTime":2544.75,"body":"hope you have a fantastic week."}]}