{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":0.3,"endTime":4.025,"body":"You know, when you are wrestling with a big"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":4.065,"endTime":7.849,"body":"decision or something that is causing you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":7.909,"endTime":9.271,"body":"trouble and you can't really figure out"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":9.291,"endTime":12.274,"body":"what the source of the trouble is, you just"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":12.314,"endTime":14.116,"body":"go around and around and around in your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":14.136,"endTime":16.903,"body":"mind, and I have likened this sensation in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":16.923,"endTime":19.646,"body":"the past to feeling like you are trapped in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":20.107,"endTime":22.049,"body":"a room with no doors or windows and you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":22.069,"endTime":24.372,"body":"just cannot figure out how to get out of it."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":24.432,"endTime":25.894,"body":"Right, you know you don't want to be there"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":25.934,"endTime":28.998,"body":"anymore, you just can't figure out the best"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":29.839,"endTime":31.782,"body":"path forward, and that is a."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":31.883,"endTime":33.887,"body":"It's just a tough place to be, and it's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":33.927,"endTime":36.861,"body":"something that I think we struggle with as"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":36.921,"endTime":40.085,"body":"solopreneurs, because we don't always have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":40.586,"endTime":43.791,"body":"an available community that understands"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":43.811,"endTime":46.515,"body":"where we're coming from, that can sort of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":46.555,"endTime":49.185,"body":"relate and give honest, constructive"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":49.245,"endTime":51.189,"body":"feedback and sort of help us through these"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":51.249,"endTime":53.521,"body":"times, and so what we do is we turn to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":53.561,"endTime":56.908,"body":"social media, which can actually have the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":57.048,"endTime":59.573,"body":"opposite effect from well."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":60.034,"endTime":61.262,"body":"It's not that it has the opposite effect,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":61.362,"endTime":64.43,"body":"it's just not always the most constructive"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":64.851,"endTime":65.933,"body":"place to go right."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":66.501,"endTime":69.348,"body":"So if you have an in-person community,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":69.609,"endTime":70.852,"body":"congratulations good."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":71.4,"endTime":73.306,"body":"If you don't, I think you should put it on"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":73.346,"endTime":75.371,"body":"your list of things to prioritize this year"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":75.58,"endTime":78.504,"body":"is meeting some other people and forming a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":78.544,"endTime":80.286,"body":"community that you can rely on like that."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":80.386,"endTime":85.812,"body":"But in the meantime I wanted to have a bit"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":85.852,"endTime":89.336,"body":"of a conversation that I share with you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":89.821,"endTime":92.268,"body":"here on the podcast about a topic that I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":92.308,"endTime":95.678,"body":"think a lot of photographers are feeling"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":95.718,"endTime":100.206,"body":"trapped around, which is the new feeling of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":100.306,"endTime":102.409,"body":"the photography industry, or the sort of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":102.429,"endTime":105.554,"body":"the newest phase of photography in the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":105.594,"endTime":109.968,"body":"world, and the appetite for photography,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":110.269,"endTime":113.838,"body":"the willingness to pay professional rates"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":113.918,"endTime":114.58,"body":"for photography."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":115.021,"endTime":117.326,"body":"These are not new challenges for"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":117.386,"endTime":119.351,"body":"photographers, but I do feel like over the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":119.391,"endTime":121.843,"body":"last couple of years something has shifted"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":122.384,"endTime":124.69,"body":"and I have been kind of going around in my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":124.85,"endTime":125.893,"body":"own head about that."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":126.04,"endTime":127.645,"body":"You're going to hear all about my feelings"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":127.685,"endTime":129.391,"body":"about that over the course of this episode,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":130.141,"endTime":132.986,"body":"but as I have been sort of seeing and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":133.066,"endTime":135.251,"body":"hearing more photographers struggle with"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":135.291,"endTime":139.124,"body":"this, I have wanted to weigh in and sort of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":139.144,"endTime":140.227,"body":"share my thoughts about it."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":140.267,"endTime":142.652,"body":"So I had planned a conversation or a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":142.672,"endTime":144.865,"body":"podcast episode for the beginning of the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":144.905,"endTime":147.681,"body":"year to address that."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":148.023,"endTime":149.388,"body":"And then I was talking to Dana."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":149.829,"endTime":151.636,"body":"If you don't know Dana from the consistency"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":151.676,"endTime":153.763,"body":"club, she works with me and has worked with"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":153.803,"endTime":156.069,"body":"me for the last couple of years as the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":156.109,"endTime":157.071,"body":"marketing director at."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":157.111,"endTime":159.404,"body":"This can't be that hard and she's such a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":159.464,"endTime":162.671,"body":"wealth of knowledge and not just knowledge,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":162.731,"endTime":165.737,"body":"but also energy and sort of positive,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":166.378,"endTime":169.004,"body":"supportive energy which we can all use, and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":169.044,"endTime":170.547,"body":"when I was talking to her about this, she"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":170.588,"endTime":173.642,"body":"brought up an analogy that I loved."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":173.903,"endTime":175.647,"body":"Surprise, surprise, as soon as she brought"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":175.687,"endTime":177.171,"body":"it up and we got into it, I was like, oh"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":177.211,"endTime":179.105,"body":"man, nevermind, this isn't going to be a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":179.145,"endTime":179.728,"body":"solo show."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":179.829,"endTime":181.778,"body":"I'm interviewing you for this particular"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":181.818,"endTime":183.844,"body":"podcast and it really is less of an"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":183.904,"endTime":185.347,"body":"interview and more of a conversation."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":185.407,"endTime":189.335,"body":"So I want to invite you to kind of pull up"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":189.375,"endTime":192.462,"body":"a chair and sit at our little coffee shop"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":192.602,"endTime":196.109,"body":"table where we are discussing the state of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":196.129,"endTime":197.852,"body":"the industry, the."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":198.433,"endTime":201.384,"body":"You know what's needed to succeed these"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":201.464,"endTime":203.609,"body":"days, and I think you're really going to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":203.669,"endTime":204.029,"body":"enjoy it."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":204.13,"endTime":207.423,"body":"I know I really enjoyed it and and I hope"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":207.523,"endTime":210.291,"body":"it kind of kicks your year off on the right"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":210.331,"endTime":210.492,"body":"note."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":211.701,"endTime":212.503,"body":"Welcome to this."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":212.543,"endTime":213.425,"body":"Can't Be that Hard."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":213.786,"endTime":215.951,"body":"My name is Annamie Tonkin and I help"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":215.991,"endTime":218.203,"body":"photographers run profitable, sustainable"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":218.303,"endTime":219.446,"body":"businesses that they love."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":220.728,"endTime":222.873,"body":"Each week on the podcast, I cover simple,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":223.42,"endTime":225.484,"body":"actionable strategies and systems that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":225.524,"endTime":227.628,"body":"photographers at every level of experience"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":227.688,"endTime":229.953,"body":"can use to earn more money in a more"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":229.993,"endTime":230.754,"body":"sustainable way."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":231.841,"endTime":233.865,"body":"Running a photography business doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":233.885,"endTime":234.647,"body":"to be that hard."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":235.288,"endTime":237.313,"body":"You can do it and I can show you how."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":240.8,"endTime":242.928,"body":"Dana, welcome, it's so great to have you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":242.968,"endTime":243.109,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":243.582,"endTime":245.378,"body":"Thanks, I actually really appreciate you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":245.418,"endTime":247.885,"body":"being willing to take the time to have this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":247.925,"endTime":250.431,"body":"conversation because I feel like I was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":250.491,"endTime":252.842,"body":"going to do a solo show on this and I just"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":254.185,"endTime":257.392,"body":"you're such a good person to talk to about"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":257.412,"endTime":258.861,"body":"this, because it's like you know enough"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":258.962,"endTime":261.35,"body":"about the photography industry, because now"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":261.41,"endTime":264.0,"body":"you've been working with me for two and a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":264.02,"endTime":264.763,"body":"half solid years."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":264.803,"endTime":267.788,"body":"You've been like all up in the photography"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":267.828,"endTime":269.795,"body":"business, but you're also not in it in it,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":269.975,"endTime":272.103,"body":"so I feel like you've got that perspective"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":272.143,"endTime":272.384,"body":"Plus."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":272.424,"endTime":275.615,"body":"You're just an awesome cheerleader in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":275.655,"endTime":276.036,"body":"general."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":276.116,"endTime":278.444,"body":"Like you're a very positive person and I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":278.484,"endTime":281.594,"body":"feel like sometimes we all need that, even"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":281.654,"endTime":283.52,"body":"if I consider myself to be a pretty"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":283.741,"endTime":285.768,"body":"positive person, but like we all have our"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":285.808,"endTime":287.303,"body":"down days and so it's always good to have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":287.323,"endTime":289.348,"body":"that friend who's like come on."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":290.29,"endTime":293.182,"body":"Yeah, yeah, and I think it is really"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":293.242,"endTime":295.367,"body":"important to be able to have a conversation"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":295.407,"endTime":299.945,"body":"that is both like pick yourself up and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":300.186,"endTime":302.452,"body":"let's, let's actually talk truth."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":302.76,"endTime":304.767,"body":"So I think that that was really how this"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":304.807,"endTime":308.424,"body":"started was like let's dig into this, you"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":308.464,"endTime":312.932,"body":"know, and really figure out what is going"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":313.172,"endTime":316.483,"body":"on both in the world and in our minds, and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":316.523,"endTime":318.547,"body":"then you know kind of talk about it in a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":318.607,"endTime":320.732,"body":"way that is constructive."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":320.992,"endTime":323.229,"body":"I just feel like I have heard from a lot of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":323.289,"endTime":325.1,"body":"students recently and disproportionately,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":325.281,"endTime":326.827,"body":"because I've been doing this for five years"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":327.59,"endTime":329.919,"body":"and I feel like in the last six to nine"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":329.959,"endTime":332.164,"body":"months I have gotten a lot more of this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":332.726,"endTime":334.429,"body":"sort of thing than I have in the past,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":334.51,"endTime":338.184,"body":"which is people who are just like burnt out"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":338.304,"endTime":340.829,"body":"and feeling overburdened by the how"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":340.949,"endTime":343.354,"body":"difficult photography, running a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":343.4,"endTime":344.644,"body":"photography business, is right now."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":345.106,"endTime":347.224,"body":"So you know, there's always some level of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":347.284,"endTime":349.33,"body":"that, but I just felt like it was getting"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":349.35,"endTime":349.931,"body":"to be more and more."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":350.04,"endTime":351.744,"body":"And I was talking to you about that and you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":351.785,"endTime":352.386,"body":"were talking."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":352.506,"endTime":356.645,"body":"You raised this idea of video games, which"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":356.785,"endTime":359.613,"body":"I am like completely blissfully unaware of,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":359.954,"endTime":362.681,"body":"Um, and you were talking about these levels."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":362.721,"endTime":365.407,"body":"So I'm not even going to make, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":365.427,"endTime":367.632,"body":"going to show how unknowledgeable I am"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":367.692,"endTime":369.524,"body":"about this, I'm going to let you take over"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":369.605,"endTime":371.833,"body":"right there and just share this sort of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":371.873,"endTime":372.836,"body":"analogy with everybody."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":373.278,"endTime":373.84,"body":"Yeah, okay."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":374.0,"endTime":375.547,"body":"So I love video games."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":375.62,"endTime":377.342,"body":"I've always loved games, shout out to all"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":377.362,"endTime":378.226,"body":"my gamers out there."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":380.044,"endTime":383.031,"body":"And I and I realized, man, it's been a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":383.072,"endTime":384.282,"body":"while, it's been like 20 years ago."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":384.322,"endTime":386.386,"body":"Like I realized a long time ago that there"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":386.586,"endTime":391.074,"body":"is an analogy in how video games are set up"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":391.14,"endTime":392.125,"body":"for how life is set up."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":392.24,"endTime":395.007,"body":"So if you aren't a video game person, you"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":395.027,"endTime":397.333,"body":"know the old school video games like think"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":397.44,"endTime":399.912,"body":"Mario, super Mario Brothers okay, is set up"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":399.972,"endTime":402.163,"body":"such that, like you are a character and as"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":402.203,"endTime":403.992,"body":"you go through the world world you pick up"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":404.073,"endTime":406.923,"body":"skills and tools and you learn how to do"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":407.003,"endTime":410.049,"body":"different new tricks or cast spells or"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":410.11,"endTime":412.862,"body":"whatever the game you know lends itself to."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":413.604,"endTime":415.85,"body":"And then, sort of at the end of several"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":415.91,"endTime":419.6,"body":"levels, you meet up with a mini boss or you"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":419.62,"endTime":421.304,"body":"know a boss at the end of the level and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":421.324,"endTime":423.93,"body":"this is this big monster and they're really"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":423.99,"endTime":424.592,"body":"hard to beat."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":429.24,"endTime":430.224,"body":"And usually what happens is the first time"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":430.265,"endTime":431.008,"body":"that you come up against them you get"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":431.028,"endTime":431.45,"body":"absolutely smashed."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":431.47,"endTime":432.454,"body":"You like die in like two seconds and then"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":432.474,"endTime":433.84,"body":"you're like, okay, wait, let me go back and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":433.9,"endTime":435.425,"body":"get a different hammer or learn a different"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":435.445,"endTime":436.869,"body":"thing, and you go back and you learn those"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":436.889,"endTime":438.804,"body":"things and you come back and you probably"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":438.844,"endTime":439.666,"body":"still lose to them."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":439.726,"endTime":441.471,"body":"Like you, you go up against this boss a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":441.531,"endTime":444.037,"body":"couple of times and each time you get a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":444.097,"endTime":445.782,"body":"little bit better, but you're like, oh wait,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":445.902,"endTime":447.386,"body":"I need to go back and I need to learn"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":447.426,"endTime":449.512,"body":"something else before I'm ready to beat"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":449.58,"endTime":450.121,"body":"this boss."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":450.762,"endTime":453.368,"body":"And so that really became an analogy for me"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":453.508,"endTime":456.213,"body":"in business, which is like you, your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":456.273,"endTime":456.754,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":457.182,"endTime":459.051,"body":"A long time ago you did a podcast episode"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":459.091,"endTime":460.678,"body":"on this and I'll link we'll link it in the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":460.718,"endTime":462.102,"body":"show notes, but it was like the different"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":462.243,"endTime":463.967,"body":"phases of starting a business, like when"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":463.987,"endTime":466.151,"body":"you're a startup, and then, like you know,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":466.192,"endTime":467.735,"body":"when you're sort of like just you know"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":467.775,"endTime":469.428,"body":"you're in the you're not quite a startup,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":469.448,"endTime":470.353,"body":"but you're a beginner."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":470.393,"endTime":471.72,"body":"Then you're like in your growth phase, then"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":471.74,"endTime":473.762,"body":"you're in your you know, I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":473.782,"endTime":474.783,"body":"the name, it was the guy."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":474.843,"endTime":476.465,"body":"it was the interview I did with the guy"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":476.525,"endTime":478.487,"body":"from six figure photography, Brian figure"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":478.768,"endTime":479.809,"body":"startup or something."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":479.849,"endTime":480.97,"body":"Yeah, but we'll get it right in the show"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":480.99,"endTime":481.09,"body":"notes."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":481.23,"endTime":481.551,"body":"Sorry, we will."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":487.42,"endTime":490.047,"body":"And he had these great like names for all"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":490.067,"endTime":491.811,"body":"the different sort of like levels of your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":491.851,"endTime":492.232,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":492.881,"endTime":496.128,"body":"And so you know every time that you are and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":496.149,"endTime":497.893,"body":"I love that because that is really true"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":497.98,"endTime":499.825,"body":"Like when you're a newbie in photography,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":499.885,"endTime":502.251,"body":"like you know, I have seen this now people"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":502.291,"endTime":504.196,"body":"who are, you know, in their first one or"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":504.236,"endTime":505.82,"body":"two years of business are very different"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":505.88,"endTime":507.806,"body":"than the people who are in year seven or"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":507.847,"endTime":508.729,"body":"eight of their business."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":508.77,"endTime":512.889,"body":"Right, but what I often have seen in a lot"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":512.929,"endTime":515.235,"body":"of businesses, specifically in"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":515.857,"endTime":517.662,"body":"self-employed businesses, because it's"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":517.702,"endTime":519.867,"body":"really just you doing it is when you are"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":519.988,"endTime":522.482,"body":"moving from one phase to the next phase,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":522.522,"endTime":524.388,"body":"you have to beat this boss, you have to"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":524.449,"endTime":533.221,"body":"like, you come up against this sort of"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":533.282,"endTime":534.504,"body":"ceiling or like mini boss in your business"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":534.524,"endTime":535.486,"body":"and if you don't have all the right tools"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":535.506,"endTime":537.089,"body":"to get over that level and push into the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":537.15,"endTime":540.342,"body":"next level, it can really feel how I"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":540.423,"endTime":542.266,"body":"perceive people to be feeling right now,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":542.687,"endTime":545.273,"body":"which is super defeating, super burnout."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":545.293,"endTime":546.422,"body":"You're like again, you're just like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":546.482,"endTime":548.728,"body":"crashing into this wall over and over again."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":549.469,"endTime":551.583,"body":"So it to go back to the video game analogy,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":551.764,"endTime":553.731,"body":"that is like the idea of like, if you keep"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":553.932,"endTime":556.541,"body":"trying that boss fight over and over again"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":556.581,"endTime":559.27,"body":"without going back and getting new tools"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":559.39,"endTime":561.578,"body":"and learning new things and up-leveling"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":561.598,"endTime":563.703,"body":"your skills, then yeah, you're going to."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":563.743,"endTime":565.326,"body":"That's the definition of insanity right"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":565.366,"endTime":567.089,"body":"Doing the same thing over and over again"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":567.129,"endTime":569.474,"body":"and expecting a different result yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":569.514,"endTime":571.405,"body":"you have to go back and be like, you have"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":571.425,"endTime":572.488,"body":"to take kind of a step back and be like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":572.548,"endTime":575.363,"body":"okay, what do I need to beat this boss"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":575.403,"endTime":575.744,"body":"level?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":575.904,"endTime":579.151,"body":"And so I think I have looked at this vibe"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":579.211,"endTime":581.14,"body":"that is happening right now and I and I"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":581.221,"endTime":584.583,"body":"think that it is both just inherent in how"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":584.623,"endTime":587.185,"body":"you grow in any small business, right Like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":587.205,"endTime":588.966,"body":"when you go from being a startup to being"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":589.046,"endTime":592.528,"body":"established, there is going to be a ceiling"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":592.548,"endTime":594.269,"body":"that you go through from one level to the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":594.309,"endTime":594.49,"body":"next."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":594.529,"endTime":596.211,"body":"There's going to be this boss that you have"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":596.231,"endTime":600.033,"body":"to be right."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":600.934,"endTime":603.195,"body":"Confluence is that the right word of like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":603.416,"endTime":606.298,"body":"the photography industry specifically, like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":606.478,"endTime":608.663,"body":"what has the photography industry has"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":608.824,"endTime":611.469,"body":"undergone a pretty massive change in the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":611.509,"endTime":614.463,"body":"last 20 years as compared to, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":614.523,"endTime":615.746,"body":"lot of other industries."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":616.228,"endTime":619.618,"body":"So I think part of it is just the basics of"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":619.658,"endTime":621.924,"body":"like running any small business, and then"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":622.085,"endTime":623.909,"body":"the other part of it is people are coming."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":623.989,"endTime":626.522,"body":"We're all sort of coming up against a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":626.582,"endTime":629.147,"body":"little boss right now because of the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":629.187,"endTime":631.431,"body":"photography industry in general."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":631.751,"endTime":635.223,"body":"Yeah, and so yeah, why don't you talk a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":635.243,"endTime":635.865,"body":"little bit about that?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":636.166,"endTime":637.67,"body":"Well, I was going to jump in just from my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":637.831,"endTime":638.641,"body":"own perspective."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":638.701,"endTime":642.448,"body":"So I started my business in 2010, but, like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":643.269,"endTime":645.233,"body":"I remember, the first time I got married it"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":645.253,"endTime":646.575,"body":"was 2004."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":647.557,"endTime":650.563,"body":"And our wedding photographer wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":650.623,"endTime":652.368,"body":"wedding photographer, he was like a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":652.408,"endTime":654.742,"body":"photojournalist that we knew and we were"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":654.762,"endTime":655.926,"body":"like, hey, do you want to take pictures at"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":655.986,"endTime":656.348,"body":"our wedding?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":656.388,"endTime":657.743,"body":"And he was like, yeah, I have this new"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":657.803,"endTime":658.645,"body":"digital camera."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":659.106,"endTime":660.169,"body":"And I was like does it?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":660.49,"endTime":662.845,"body":"Can it like that sounds terrible."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":662.985,"endTime":664.67,"body":"And he was like no, no, it's pretty good,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":668.22,"endTime":668.923,"body":"it can like that sounds terrible."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":668.943,"endTime":669.707,"body":"And he was like, no, no, it's pretty good."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":669.727,"endTime":670.61,"body":"It was not pretty good, but it was better"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":670.631,"endTime":671.514,"body":"than like digital cameras to that point had"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":671.534,"endTime":671.635,"body":"been."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":671.675,"endTime":673.182,"body":"And he was really excited about the fact"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":673.202,"endTime":674.369,"body":"that he wasn't gonna have to pay a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":674.389,"endTime":675.174,"body":"money to shoot film."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":675.234,"endTime":677.623,"body":"But he didn't have a website and so I had"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":677.684,"endTime":679.789,"body":"absolutely no idea and you know, like also,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":679.969,"endTime":681.112,"body":"things like the knot didn't exist."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":681.152,"endTime":682.883,"body":"I mean, I was like research."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":683.104,"endTime":684.688,"body":"It's funny to look back and think that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":684.728,"endTime":687.154,"body":"wasn't really all that long ago and yet it"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":687.194,"endTime":689.099,"body":"was a completely different process from"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":689.139,"endTime":691.124,"body":"when I got married a couple of years ago,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":691.244,"endTime":692.287,"body":"completely different."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":692.928,"endTime":694.821,"body":"And then, when I think about him and his"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":694.921,"endTime":697.129,"body":"photography business, he, when digital"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":697.149,"endTime":699.075,"body":"became like a real thing, he quit."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":700.079,"endTime":702.605,"body":"He got out of photography because he was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":702.685,"endTime":705.251,"body":"one of these guys who had been in business"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":705.953,"endTime":708.03,"body":"as a film photographer and had, like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":708.251,"endTime":710.662,"body":"shopped his portfolio around, like he had"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":710.762,"endTime":712.587,"body":"prints that he would send to various"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":712.627,"endTime":714.211,"body":"publications and they would hire him as a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":714.251,"endTime":714.772,"body":"photographer."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":715.641,"endTime":718.408,"body":"And when the industry shifted and all of a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":718.428,"endTime":720.212,"body":"sudden, not only did he need to like switch"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":720.28,"endTime":722.703,"body":"over to digital completely, but he also was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":722.723,"endTime":724.866,"body":"going to have to build a website and do all"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":724.886,"endTime":727.65,"body":"this stuff to like run a different business"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":727.83,"endTime":731.595,"body":"in a newly flooded market, he was like and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":731.695,"endTime":734.445,"body":"I'm out, which you know, that's fine."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":734.465,"endTime":736.269,"body":"That was the right decision for him."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":736.41,"endTime":738.441,"body":"That was the first thing in the early two"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":738.501,"endTime":742.45,"body":"thousands and then around 2010,."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":742.951,"endTime":745.075,"body":"I guess that was around when Instagram kind"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":745.095,"endTime":746.78,"body":"of hit the I think so hit the scene."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":748.144,"endTime":749.967,"body":"So around that time, cause, in the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":750.008,"endTime":752.152,"body":"beginning of my business, it was still the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":752.192,"endTime":753.823,"body":"thing where you couldn't post anything"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":753.943,"endTime":755.468,"body":"other than photos that you took with your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":755.508,"endTime":756.45,"body":"phone on Instagram."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":756.491,"endTime":758.283,"body":"Right, you'd like put the Instagram filter"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":758.343,"endTime":758.584,"body":"on them."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":759.005,"endTime":761.751,"body":"And then I remember when, all of a sudden,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":761.791,"endTime":764.345,"body":"you were able to put your professional"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":764.385,"endTime":766.921,"body":"photos into your phone and add them into"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":766.981,"endTime":768.126,"body":"Instagram and how."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":768.166,"endTime":770.215,"body":"I was like woo, this is going to be a great"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":770.276,"endTime":772.342,"body":"way to market my business, and it was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":772.442,"endTime":775.849,"body":"because, at that point, 99% of the content"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":775.869,"endTime":778.594,"body":"that was on Instagram was very amateurish"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":779.322,"endTime":781.831,"body":"and then, if you got to be one of the first"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":782.011,"endTime":784.119,"body":"to market, that was showing something that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":784.159,"endTime":785.888,"body":"people couldn't see all the time on their"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":785.929,"endTime":787.84,"body":"phones that drove demand."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":788.201,"endTime":790.346,"body":"I feel like, in retrospect, through the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":790.386,"endTime":792.149,"body":"roof through the roof through the roof."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":792.17,"endTime":793.673,"body":"When you're in it you don't see it all that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":793.693,"endTime":796.364,"body":"well, but I definitely, in retrospect, see"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":796.404,"endTime":799.95,"body":"that like I was very much a beneficiary of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":799.99,"endTime":801.192,"body":"that confluence of events."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":801.272,"endTime":805.251,"body":"That was like increased, you know, number"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":805.291,"endTime":806.56,"body":"of people who were getting really good at"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":806.58,"endTime":810.147,"body":"photography, yes, and then the increased"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":810.527,"endTime":814.454,"body":"exposure to that by everyone and on our"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":814.514,"endTime":816.864,"body":"side, an insane demand."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":817.025,"endTime":818.768,"body":"Okay, so actually, this is so funny."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":819.249,"endTime":821.053,"body":"The other day I posted I got like a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":821.16,"endTime":824.346,"body":"Facebook memory of a photo that I took on"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":824.427,"endTime":828.441,"body":"my phone in 2008 and felt like it was good"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":828.501,"endTime":829.924,"body":"enough to post to Facebook."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":829.944,"endTime":833.372,"body":"You guys, it is like one of those photos"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":833.392,"endTime":835.343,"body":"that looks like I was moving my phone while"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":835.383,"endTime":837.368,"body":"I took it, like it's that blurry and it's a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":837.428,"endTime":839.762,"body":"picture of the castle lit up at Disneyland"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":839.902,"endTime":840.243,"body":"it is."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":841.165,"endTime":843.07,"body":"It is so terrible I can't."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":843.271,"endTime":845.456,"body":"I like I can't even describe how terrible"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":845.496,"endTime":847.922,"body":"it is and I thought it was good enough to"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":848.063,"endTime":850.889,"body":"post on my Facebook timeline because that"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":850.969,"endTime":852.981,"body":"was the state of I probably had a flip"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":853.041,"endTime":854.505,"body":"phone at that point and it had like a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":854.545,"endTime":856.19,"body":"camera, and that was the state of cameras"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":856.23,"endTime":856.711,"body":"on your phone."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":857.241,"endTime":858.885,"body":"So, then, cameras on your phone started to"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":858.925,"endTime":860.429,"body":"get a little better, but they were not"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":860.569,"endTime":863.464,"body":"nowhere near as good as the photographs"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":863.484,"endTime":864.967,"body":"that you all were making with your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":865.028,"endTime":867.272,"body":"professional cameras, and certainly not at"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":867.293,"endTime":867.693,"body":"that time."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":867.8,"endTime":868.805,"body":"Yeah, certainly not."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":868.9,"endTime":871.128,"body":"So then we started being like wow, I want"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":871.369,"endTime":871.649,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":871.82,"endTime":875.026,"body":"And so this idea of being Instagram worthy"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":875.707,"endTime":877.391,"body":"sort of came in."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":877.431,"endTime":881.122,"body":"Like, I would say, 2012 to 2016, 18,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":881.182,"endTime":881.783,"body":"somewhere in there."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":881.823,"endTime":883.706,"body":"This idea of like, if you're going to post"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":883.726,"endTime":885.608,"body":"a picture of your family or your kid or"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":885.628,"endTime":888.672,"body":"your newborn or your pet or whatever, it"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":888.812,"endTime":892.036,"body":"better be beautiful and look professional."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":892.18,"endTime":895.523,"body":"And so that drove demand through the roof,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":895.683,"endTime":899.306,"body":"but meanwhile, I also oh sorry, I was going"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":899.326,"endTime":901.187,"body":"to jump in and say and it really wasn't"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":901.227,"endTime":903.748,"body":"just Instagram either, it was Pinterest too,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":904.028,"endTime":905.768,"body":"because I feel like people were on"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":905.788,"endTime":907.209,"body":"Pinterest and they were like I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":907.249,"endTime":908.669,"body":"throw a birthday party that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":909.27,"endTime":911.691,"body":"fit for Kings for my three-year-old and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":912.111,"endTime":913.831,"body":"better have photos, or it didn't happen,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":913.851,"endTime":916.112,"body":"like if that became kind of the mantra,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":916.132,"endTime":919.794,"body":"like again, you couldn't."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":919.934,"endTime":922.755,"body":"That's a perfect example of a birthday"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":922.775,"endTime":923.535,"body":"party for a three-year-old."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":923.655,"endTime":926.697,"body":"You couldn't take photos on your phone that"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":926.897,"endTime":929.478,"body":"could show how all the effort that you put"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":929.578,"endTime":930.938,"body":"into that birthday party entry for becoming"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":930.978,"endTime":945.846,"body":"a photographer was still pretty high, like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":945.886,"endTime":946.347,"body":"it wasn't."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":946.567,"endTime":949.854,"body":"So remember, guys, like Amazon wasn't as"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":950.175,"endTime":951.939,"body":"booming as it is right now, you couldn't,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":951.965,"endTime":954.353,"body":"just, like you know, ordering."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":954.474,"endTime":957.102,"body":"I feel like if you ordered a camera online"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":957.163,"endTime":958.508,"body":"during that time, that would be like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":958.97,"endTime":961.882,"body":"absolutely bonkers, like in the, the insane"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":961.942,"endTime":964.329,"body":"idea of ordering something that expensive"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":964.569,"endTime":966.675,"body":"online, right, whereas now it's just like,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":966.715,"endTime":968.967,"body":"yeah, like mail to me, right, right, so the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":969.007,"endTime":970.41,"body":"barrier to entry was so high."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":970.47,"endTime":973.437,"body":"So there, there definitely was this moment"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":973.697,"endTime":976.27,"body":"in time where the demand, everybody wanted"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":976.31,"endTime":978.996,"body":"professional photos of everything their kid"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":979.016,"endTime":981.67,"body":"taking their first poop, to like their"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":981.75,"endTime":985.326,"body":"wedding, right and that, um, we didn't have"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":985.366,"endTime":987.391,"body":"the ability to take those photos ourselves."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":987.531,"endTime":991.766,"body":"And now I think that camera phones, while"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":991.826,"endTime":994.913,"body":"they are certainly, and never I don't think"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":994.953,"endTime":997.999,"body":"they ever can be as good as a I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":998.059,"endTime":999.168,"body":"call it a real camera."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":999.208,"endTime":1001.955,"body":"I don't know it never will reach that level."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1001.975,"endTime":1004.914,"body":"However, you can use your camera phone now"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1004.994,"endTime":1006.862,"body":"to take up, you know, to take photos of"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1006.903,"endTime":1008.007,"body":"your kid's third birthday party."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1008.027,"endTime":1010.232,"body":"We'll say right and like you will it."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1010.573,"endTime":1012.827,"body":"You won't have the same level, but you will"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1012.867,"endTime":1014.932,"body":"be able to capture all the beautiful"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1014.972,"endTime":1017.117,"body":"balloon arches you made and the cake that"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1017.157,"endTime":1019.65,"body":"you did, and you will be able to capture"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1019.71,"endTime":1021.836,"body":"those details in a way that you will then"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1021.876,"endTime":1023.909,"body":"be able to turn around and post that on"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1024.39,"endTime":1026.395,"body":"Instagram or put it in a photo album if you"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1026.415,"endTime":1026.816,"body":"want it's."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1027.097,"endTime":1028.408,"body":"Of course, it's not going to be the same as"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1028.508,"endTime":1030.273,"body":"professional photos, but I think that, like,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1030.995,"endTime":1033.227,"body":"that part of the demand has certainly come"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1033.247,"endTime":1033.487,"body":"down."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1033.928,"endTime":1036.131,"body":"Well, and there's, it's a couple of things"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1036.231,"endTime":1037.993,"body":"Like I feel like there's also been a bit of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1038.033,"endTime":1041.859,"body":"a backlash, not just in the anti Pinterest,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1042.199,"endTime":1042.399,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1042.419,"endTime":1044.588,"body":"It's like you know what I am sick of trying"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1044.628,"endTime":1047.295,"body":"to make my entire life look like a perfect"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1047.416,"endTime":1048.414,"body":"grid, like that's not."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1048.576,"endTime":1049.245,"body":"It's not reality."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1049.385,"endTime":1051.854,"body":"So there's been a bit of a backlash on that,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1052.228,"endTime":1054.025,"body":"and by a bit I mean it's been a backlash."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1054.846,"endTime":1057.43,"body":"And then I also think that photography"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1057.55,"endTime":1058.652,"body":"styles are."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1059.153,"endTime":1061.076,"body":"There's like another piece to the puzzle"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1061.136,"endTime":1064.02,"body":"here, which is that when all of this other"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1064.446,"endTime":1066.95,"body":"stuff was happening and photography was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1066.99,"endTime":1072.518,"body":"getting really high demand, um, we were"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1072.579,"endTime":1075.628,"body":"also the the, the trend at that time, or"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1075.668,"endTime":1078.433,"body":"the um popular style of portrait"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1078.473,"endTime":1081.978,"body":"photography was very like telephoto lenses"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1082.098,"endTime":1082.819,"body":"were everywhere."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1082.92,"endTime":1086.513,"body":"You had that super, super, um, creamy,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1086.593,"endTime":1089.139,"body":"dreamy backdrop where your subject and the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1089.159,"endTime":1091.646,"body":"backdrop were very separated, which is an"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1091.706,"endTime":1093.35,"body":"extremely difficult thing to do with a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1093.41,"endTime":1095.596,"body":"phone camera just optically, like you can"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1095.636,"endTime":1098.312,"body":"fake it with portrait mode, but that is not."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1098.753,"endTime":1100.278,"body":"Certainly portrait mode wasn't available"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1100.318,"endTime":1102.224,"body":"then and they made it available now and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1102.324,"endTime":1103.968,"body":"probably very few people are using it,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1104.008,"endTime":1107.676,"body":"because now the style is a more like 35"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1107.716,"endTime":1111.209,"body":"millimeter look, and I mean that extends"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1111.33,"endTime":1114.376,"body":"even to like pop-up flashes back in style"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1114.477,"endTime":1117.209,"body":"and that is, like, hilariously and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1117.429,"endTime":1119.413,"body":"antithetical to what was going on then."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1119.814,"endTime":1122.299,"body":"So, in addition to all these other sort of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1123.445,"endTime":1126.154,"body":"you know, the wind was at our back for so"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1126.214,"endTime":1128.542,"body":"many things, and part of it was that the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1128.582,"endTime":1131.229,"body":"people were like what they saw that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1131.329,"endTime":1133.093,"body":"professionals were doing was totally"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1133.133,"endTime":1135.445,"body":"different from what they could achieve on"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1135.465,"endTime":1135.826,"body":"their own."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1136.287,"endTime":1140.294,"body":"Even if they were given a like a phone from"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1140.355,"endTime":1142.959,"body":"today, you know was delivered into the past,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1143.145,"endTime":1144.311,"body":"it just wasn't available to them."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1144.445,"endTime":1147.426,"body":"So now the tide has come out yeah, where"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1147.566,"endTime":1149.551,"body":"I'm just going to continue to mix metaphors"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1149.591,"endTime":1152.678,"body":"here where it's like the style is more in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1152.745,"endTime":1154.786,"body":"line with what phones can achieve, phones"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1154.826,"endTime":1155.991,"body":"are just straight up, better."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1156.785,"endTime":1158.749,"body":"People aren't trying to make everything"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1158.829,"endTime":1160.472,"body":"look all perfect all the time."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1161.694,"endTime":1164.967,"body":"And then you know you have the whole fact"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1165.088,"endTime":1167.175,"body":"of the matter that, like, there are a ton"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1167.195,"endTime":1169.684,"body":"of photographers and technology has"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1169.744,"endTime":1171.328,"body":"continued to make it easier to start a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1171.368,"endTime":1174.555,"body":"business in that, like, I had to take a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1174.615,"endTime":1177.709,"body":"WordPress class to design and like execute"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1177.749,"endTime":1179.074,"body":"a website when I started."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1179.375,"endTime":1182.324,"body":"Now you can get a fantastic looking website."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1182.364,"endTime":1184.149,"body":"You don't need anything other than some"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1184.209,"endTime":1186.475,"body":"photos to put in there and I, but that's"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1186.495,"endTime":1188.448,"body":"not just true for photography, that is true"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1188.548,"endTime":1190.593,"body":"for small business startups across the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1190.634,"endTime":1190.854,"body":"board."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1190.914,"endTime":1193.568,"body":"Right, but I do want to push back on that."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1193.588,"endTime":1196.394,"body":"So that specific, there's more"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1196.454,"endTime":1197.757,"body":"photographers than ever."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1197.997,"endTime":1199.508,"body":"I want to push back on that a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1199.608,"endTime":1202.256,"body":"and I actually went and did research on"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1202.296,"endTime":1204.69,"body":"this to say, like how many has is there"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1204.73,"endTime":1204.87,"body":"like?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1205.331,"endTime":1207.115,"body":"Is it like growing exponentially?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1207.156,"endTime":1208.338,"body":"And the demand is down?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1208.866,"endTime":1210.469,"body":"And the answer is yes."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1210.93,"endTime":1213.074,"body":"The number of photographers has grown and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1213.134,"endTime":1213.495,"body":"grown."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1214.076,"endTime":1216.947,"body":"However, the demand for, for professional"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1216.988,"endTime":1220.174,"body":"photography continues to outpace the number"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1220.194,"endTime":1222.219,"body":"of photographers that there are coming in."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1222.845,"endTime":1225.937,"body":"So I think this is really more of a mindset"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1225.977,"endTime":1227.925,"body":"thing about okay, so the barrier to entry"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1228.085,"endTime":1230.834,"body":"is a little bit lower, which means at the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1231.015,"endTime":1234.085,"body":"lowest level of you know, photographers,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1235.61,"endTime":1237.275,"body":"the competition is fierce."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1237.365,"endTime":1240.435,"body":"There are a lot of brand new photographers."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1241.186,"endTime":1243.835,"body":"So the challenge then, unlike when you"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1243.875,"endTime":1246.583,"body":"started, isn't can I leap over all these"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1246.664,"endTime":1247.747,"body":"technical barriers?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1247.847,"endTime":1249.071,"body":"To like can I build a website?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1249.091,"endTime":1249.633,"body":"Can I do that?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1249.753,"endTime":1250.496,"body":"Everybody can do that."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1251.066,"endTime":1253.371,"body":"So now the barrier becomes a mindset, one"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1253.411,"endTime":1256.298,"body":"of like how do I become the cream of the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1256.318,"endTime":1256.558,"body":"crop?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1256.665,"endTime":1258.372,"body":"How do I rise above?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1258.565,"endTime":1258.846,"body":"Again?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1258.887,"endTime":1260.654,"body":"Let's go back to my boss analogy."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1261.187,"endTime":1263.603,"body":"How do I beat this first level of the video"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1263.643,"endTime":1265.809,"body":"game and go to level two or level three or"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1265.869,"endTime":1267.854,"body":"level four or whatever you want it to be,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1268.555,"endTime":1271.549,"body":"and so I think that you know you guys can"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1271.85,"endTime":1273.153,"body":"Google these stats for yourself."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1273.213,"endTime":1275.545,"body":"Like the numbers are not my forte, but,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1275.566,"endTime":1277.174,"body":"like when I was looking at the number of"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1277.797,"endTime":1279.264,"body":"photographers, I think it was like the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1279.304,"endTime":1280.828,"body":"number of photographers, professional"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1280.868,"endTime":1282.993,"body":"photographers, who, like, claimed that you"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1283.013,"endTime":1285.88,"body":"know on their taxes or whatever in 2024, I"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1286.041,"endTime":1288.366,"body":"think it was like 120,000 people."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1288.446,"endTime":1290.271,"body":"Like, think about that compared to the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1290.331,"endTime":1291.855,"body":"number of people that live in the U S,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1292.477,"endTime":1294.791,"body":"that's like I don't, it's like minuscule."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1295.433,"endTime":1296.898,"body":"So you know, and, of course, maybe not"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1297.039,"endTime":1299.847,"body":"everybody is claiming that or whatever, but"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1299.927,"endTime":1303.213,"body":"again, that number is teeny, tiny compared"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1303.234,"endTime":1305.558,"body":"to the number of people that are having"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1305.598,"endTime":1307.874,"body":"kids, that are getting married, that want"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1307.894,"endTime":1309.722,"body":"professional photos of their family, that"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1309.802,"endTime":1312.292,"body":"want pictures of their dogs, that, like,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1312.312,"endTime":1314.661,"body":"you know, like what all the options that"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1314.701,"endTime":1315.565,"body":"are available out there."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1315.705,"endTime":1318.392,"body":"So I feel like this is the part where you"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1318.472,"endTime":1320.437,"body":"need to look back and say to yourself okay,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1322.269,"endTime":1325.411,"body":"what mini boss do I have to get over in"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1325.471,"endTime":1326.435,"body":"2025?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1326.706,"endTime":1328.973,"body":"And it might be a little bit different for"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1329.093,"endTime":1329.715,"body":"every person."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1329.845,"endTime":1331.874,"body":"So I would encourage if you're listening in"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1331.914,"endTime":1334.445,"body":"right now I would encourage you to really"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1334.585,"endTime":1339.16,"body":"think about what was the thing that felt"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1339.22,"endTime":1340.645,"body":"the most frustrating."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1340.786,"endTime":1341.389,"body":"What was your?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1341.992,"endTime":1342.796,"body":"What was your boulder?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1343.367,"endTime":1344.077,"body":"Is it Sisyphus?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1344.906,"endTime":1348.234,"body":"Who pushes the rock yes."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1348.494,"endTime":1351.728,"body":"Sisyphean task yes, Like what is your rock?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1351.769,"endTime":1353.052,"body":"that you feel like you're pushing up the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1353.092,"endTime":1354.637,"body":"hill and it keeps pushing you back down."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1354.685,"endTime":1356.051,"body":"Like, what is that for you?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1356.245,"endTime":1356.526,"body":"Is it?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1357.229,"endTime":1359.901,"body":"Is it that you know you aren't getting"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1359.941,"endTime":1360.705,"body":"enough inquiries?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1361.146,"endTime":1363.432,"body":"Is it that you are getting enough inquiries"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1363.492,"endTime":1365.097,"body":"but they're not converting over?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1365.946,"endTime":1370.514,"body":"Is it that you feel like you made okay"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1370.594,"endTime":1373.019,"body":"money, but it was like the amount of time"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1373.179,"endTime":1373.499,"body":"it took?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1373.705,"endTime":1375.289,"body":"I feel like this might be one for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1375.329,"endTime":1378.657,"body":"people, like, let's say, look at what, how"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1378.697,"endTime":1379.766,"body":"much money you made this year."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1380.287,"endTime":1383.593,"body":"Now, take that number and if it was exactly"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1383.654,"endTime":1387.107,"body":"the same but you spent half the hours of"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1387.127,"endTime":1389.76,"body":"the year making that amount of money, would"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1389.8,"endTime":1392.11,"body":"you feel differently about how successful"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1392.151,"endTime":1392.472,"body":"you are?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1392.985,"endTime":1395.367,"body":"So it's those kind of little shifts Like if"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1395.507,"endTime":1397.855,"body":"you, you know, if you got the same amount"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1397.875,"endTime":1401.446,"body":"of inquiries but 75% of them booked instead"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1401.507,"endTime":1404.236,"body":"of 33% of them, would you feel differently?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1404.725,"endTime":1407.19,"body":"So it's, I think, more about looking at"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1407.55,"endTime":1411.918,"body":"your like your little boss in a critical"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1411.959,"endTime":1414.331,"body":"way and being like what that doesn't make."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1414.653,"endTime":1415.435,"body":"That isn't a failure."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1415.525,"endTime":1416.989,"body":"I'm not going to stop trying to beat this"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1417.049,"endTime":1418.553,"body":"boss, but how?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1418.713,"endTime":1422.133,"body":"What tools do I need to go back and gather?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1422.726,"endTime":1425.626,"body":"What skills do I need to learn what?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1425.767,"endTime":1427.234,"body":"Or another one that I feel like I'm hearing"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1427.275,"endTime":1429.706,"body":"from people a lot is like my clients are so"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1429.826,"endTime":1432.313,"body":"fussy or like everybody's so picky or like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1432.433,"endTime":1436.049,"body":"so difficult to deal with and there's"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1436.149,"endTime":1437.613,"body":"always going to be difficult clients in the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1437.633,"endTime":1437.894,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1437.974,"endTime":1439.646,"body":"But this is going to be a tough love from"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1439.686,"endTime":1440.247,"body":"Dana moment."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1440.708,"endTime":1443.795,"body":"If you keep having the same complaint over"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1443.895,"endTime":1445.987,"body":"and over again from a bunch of clients."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1446.789,"endTime":1448.894,"body":"The common denominator in that situation"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1449.074,"endTime":1450.358,"body":"has to be you a little bit."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1450.485,"endTime":1453.431,"body":"So you have to be willing to take a look, a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1453.531,"endTime":1457.158,"body":"critical look, at where your communication"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1457.218,"endTime":1457.659,"body":"is failing."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1457.765,"endTime":1459.41,"body":"If the same people are having the same"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1459.63,"endTime":1461.375,"body":"issue over and over again, they're like oh,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1461.416,"endTime":1463.131,"body":"I didn't realize this was going to be this"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1463.211,"endTime":1463.432,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1463.705,"endTime":1467.09,"body":"Or if you are having the same problem with"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1467.21,"endTime":1468.472,"body":"inquiries, where people are going to your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1468.492,"endTime":1470.495,"body":"website and then they're like shocked by"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1470.535,"endTime":1471.256,"body":"your pricing."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1471.816,"endTime":1474.64,"body":"Maybe your website isn't really like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1474.7,"endTime":1476.572,"body":"doesn't match up to what your pricing is."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1476.645,"endTime":1478.271,"body":"So you need to be willing to look at that"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1478.332,"endTime":1478.894,"body":"critically."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1479.766,"endTime":1483.036,"body":"Well, and I want to sort of underline that,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1483.096,"endTime":1485.845,"body":"because I think a lot of people listening"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1486.025,"endTime":1488.812,"body":"may say well, you know, the boss that's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1489.073,"endTime":1490.637,"body":"getting in my way right now is that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1490.697,"endTime":1493.67,"body":"nobody's willing to pay profitable rates."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1493.93,"endTime":1497.537,"body":"Now there are external factors that no"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1497.597,"endTime":1499.147,"body":"doubt we've just been talking about this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1499.227,"endTime":1501.754,"body":"bubble and the fact that whereas before we"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1501.794,"endTime":1503.947,"body":"had a tailwind, now we're maybe dealing"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1503.987,"endTime":1505.67,"body":"with a bit of a headwind this past year,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1506.892,"endTime":1508.856,"body":"but it's still possible to move forward."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1508.976,"endTime":1511.406,"body":"I also as many of the people, or as many"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1511.447,"endTime":1512.951,"body":"people as I've heard from this year, who"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1512.991,"endTime":1514.636,"body":"have had, you know, their worst year."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1515.886,"endTime":1518.231,"body":"I've also heard from several photographers"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1518.291,"endTime":1520.516,"body":"who are killing it Like they're doing great,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1521.198,"endTime":1525.815,"body":"and it seems to me like if you get to the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1525.835,"endTime":1526.757,"body":"point where you're like I'm still in this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1526.778,"endTime":1527.058,"body":"game, you know."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1527.078,"endTime":1528.161,"body":"If you're not, if you're like nope, I'm"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1528.261,"endTime":1529.704,"body":"still in this game, you know."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1529.784,"endTime":1531.611,"body":"If you're not, if you're like nope, I'm"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1531.651,"endTime":1534.029,"body":"done fighting this fight, I'm done pushing"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1534.049,"endTime":1536.219,"body":"this rock up the hill Like no shade"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1536.28,"endTime":1537.347,"body":"whatsoever, that is."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1538.129,"endTime":1540.074,"body":"I mean, ultimately we'll all make that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1540.114,"endTime":1541.077,"body":"decision at some point."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1541.305,"endTime":1543.552,"body":"It's really a matter of like figuring out"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1543.592,"endTime":1544.896,"body":"whether that's where you are."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1545.425,"endTime":1549.994,"body":"But if you are not, then you have to like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1550.375,"endTime":1552.058,"body":"take a break, you know, do whatever you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1552.098,"endTime":1554.19,"body":"need to do to sort of like regain your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1554.23,"endTime":1554.691,"body":"composure."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1554.731,"endTime":1556.195,"body":"Certainly, we are here at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1556.215,"endTime":1559.711,"body":"busy season and, like we all tend to have"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1559.991,"endTime":1562.356,"body":"at least a couple of days where we're like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1562.496,"endTime":1563.785,"body":"I can't, I can't do this anymore."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1564.206,"endTime":1565.468,"body":"Even you had that day."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1565.889,"endTime":1567.432,"body":"I know I do, I do every year."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1567.752,"endTime":1569.375,"body":"Um, no, no doubt at all."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1569.576,"endTime":1572.286,"body":"And then, but when you come back to it and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1572.306,"endTime":1575.311,"body":"you're like I'm in, you have to be all in,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1575.472,"endTime":1580.006,"body":"like there is no the self pity or the like."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1580.106,"endTime":1582.274,"body":"Well, it's just the industry or whatever."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1582.334,"endTime":1585.225,"body":"That doesn't serve you at all and it really"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1585.566,"endTime":1587.952,"body":"it pains me to see people wallowing in that,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1587.992,"endTime":1590.317,"body":"because I'm like every bit of energy that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1590.377,"endTime":1594.496,"body":"you are putting into this pity party and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1594.536,"endTime":1596.642,"body":"I'm going to jump on the tough train, but"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1596.782,"endTime":1598.266,"body":"every bit of energy that you're putting"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1598.326,"endTime":1601.031,"body":"into that is wasted energy."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1601.212,"endTime":1604.738,"body":"Like no one cares whether and I'm not"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1604.779,"endTime":1607.328,"body":"saying I like I care, I care about you and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1607.368,"endTime":1608.671,"body":"your feelings and all that sort of stuff"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1608.711,"endTime":1611.355,"body":"but like your clients do not care and when"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1611.395,"endTime":1613.639,"body":"they see and feel that energy, it repels"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1613.699,"endTime":1613.859,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1614.08,"endTime":1616.25,"body":"So every minute that you spend doing that"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1616.771,"endTime":1620.6,"body":"is actually sabotaging the potential for"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1621.623,"endTime":1624.168,"body":"moving past it or getting past that level."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1624.749,"endTime":1626.352,"body":"Yeah, and I so."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1626.392,"endTime":1628.276,"body":"For me, I have always been an entrepreneur."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1628.356,"endTime":1630.386,"body":"I have always been the kind of person who"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1630.446,"endTime":1632.952,"body":"like, likes to figure out a business, and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1632.992,"endTime":1634.936,"body":"it really is a game for me."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1635.077,"endTime":1636.828,"body":"And so I would encourage you to try to"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1636.888,"endTime":1638.692,"body":"gamify your business a little bit, like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1639.434,"endTime":1641.766,"body":"it's not just a, it's not like a cute"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1641.786,"endTime":1643.691,"body":"little turn of phrase when you really do"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1643.791,"endTime":1645.736,"body":"think about it, like a board game, a video"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1645.777,"endTime":1647.648,"body":"game, a whatever and you're like okay, what"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1647.668,"endTime":1650.074,"body":"are the next moves that I need to make in"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1650.214,"endTime":1651.958,"body":"order to like, win at this?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1652.118,"endTime":1654.483,"body":"It becomes a little less personal and a lot"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1654.563,"endTime":1656.167,"body":"more like a logic puzzle that you can"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1656.207,"endTime":1656.729,"body":"figure out."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1657.31,"endTime":1658.895,"body":"And so to your point about like people"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1658.915,"endTime":1660.107,"body":"aren't willing to pay those rates."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1660.327,"endTime":1662.375,"body":"First of all, that is just not true."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1662.455,"endTime":1664.864,"body":"That is like law of attraction working in"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1664.904,"endTime":1665.205,"body":"reverse."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1665.506,"endTime":1667.471,"body":"So, like this idea of like, if you're going"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1667.491,"endTime":1669.677,"body":"to buy a white Hyundai, then all of a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1669.717,"endTime":1671.71,"body":"sudden, all you see on the road are white"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1671.73,"endTime":1673.074,"body":"Hyundais and you're like everyone has a"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1673.114,"endTime":1673.535,"body":"white Hyundai."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1673.595,"endTime":1674.186,"body":"I can't buy that."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1674.627,"endTime":1675.87,"body":"Okay, so it's the same idea."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1675.99,"endTime":1677.595,"body":"If you're like nobody's willing to buy my"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1677.655,"endTime":1680.127,"body":"rate or pay my rates, that's all you're"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1680.147,"endTime":1681.689,"body":"going to see out in the world is other"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1681.729,"endTime":1683.03,"body":"photographers who are like no one is"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1683.05,"endTime":1684.152,"body":"willing to pay my rates."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1684.532,"endTime":1686.635,"body":"But if you are like, nope, there are people"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1686.795,"endTime":1688.937,"body":"out there who are willing to pay for good"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1688.957,"endTime":1690.74,"body":"photography, then that is what you will"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1690.76,"endTime":1692.281,"body":"start to attract back to yourself."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1693.285,"endTime":1695.291,"body":"And you know, not every you talk about this"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1695.371,"endTime":1695.793,"body":"all the time."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1695.893,"endTime":1699.023,"body":"Not every profitable rate is the same for"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1699.103,"endTime":1699.765,"body":"every photographer."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1699.905,"endTime":1701.929,"body":"So this sort of goes back to my idea of"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1701.969,"endTime":1702.19,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1702.731,"endTime":1705.215,"body":"You need to figure out what profitability"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1705.335,"endTime":1707.419,"body":"means and looks like for you."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1708.105,"endTime":1711.374,"body":"Maybe this other photographer spends 15"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1711.534,"endTime":1714.548,"body":"hours per client and so their rates are"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1715.129,"endTime":1718.695,"body":"higher accordingly, but if you spend three"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1718.856,"endTime":1721.626,"body":"hours per client and are charging you know"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1721.726,"endTime":1723.571,"body":"half of them, half of what they charge"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1723.712,"endTime":1725.396,"body":"you're actually still more profitable than"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1725.416,"endTime":1725.765,"body":"they are."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1725.826,"endTime":1727.911,"body":"So it's not just about who can charge the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1728.052,"endTime":1729.576,"body":"most, it's actually."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1729.636,"endTime":1730.967,"body":"This is where the game part comes in."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1731.108,"endTime":1734.094,"body":"It's actually about how can you figure out"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1734.635,"endTime":1737.329,"body":"how to streamline your workload and your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1737.429,"endTime":1740.76,"body":"systems and your whole like process so that"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1740.88,"endTime":1742.526,"body":"you can charge a rate that people are"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1742.606,"endTime":1744.551,"body":"willing to pay but that you are the most"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1744.671,"endTime":1745.814,"body":"profitable you can be."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1745.974,"endTime":1747.157,"body":"That is how you gamify it."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1747.345,"endTime":1748.427,"body":"Ooh, I just got goosebumps."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1748.868,"endTime":1751.253,"body":"It's like that is how you gamify your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1751.293,"endTime":1752.696,"body":"business and win Like."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1752.796,"endTime":1753.899,"body":"And that's when you're going to start"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1754.045,"endTime":1756.05,"body":"feeling really good because you're like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1756.351,"endTime":1756.672,"body":"great."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1756.932,"endTime":1759.097,"body":"I am like doing what I love, I am providing"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1759.138,"endTime":1761.373,"body":"an amazing service, I am charging a fee"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1761.413,"endTime":1763.2,"body":"that is fair and that people are willing to"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1763.24,"endTime":1765.026,"body":"pay, and I'm making great money."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1765.067,"endTime":1767.012,"body":"That is a win all the way around."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1767.353,"endTime":1770.764,"body":"Right, and I will play devil's advocate on"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1770.804,"endTime":1772.37,"body":"that a little bit and say that there are"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1772.431,"endTime":1774.5,"body":"people and they're not the two of us, but"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1774.521,"endTime":1776.147,"body":"there are plenty of people in this industry"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1776.227,"endTime":1778.775,"body":"for whom, like, hyper-efficiency and the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1778.836,"endTime":1782.207,"body":"most money per hour is not the number one"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1782.247,"endTime":1785.298,"body":"goal, and I think that they get hung up on"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1785.338,"endTime":1786.864,"body":"this like well, but that's not what I'm"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1786.904,"endTime":1788.147,"body":"really trying to do here."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1788.268,"endTime":1789.731,"body":"I want my clients to have an amazing"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1789.791,"endTime":1790.292,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1790.352,"endTime":1792.156,"body":"I want to, you know, like really take the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1792.196,"endTime":1794.648,"body":"time to spend on my craft, which I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1794.688,"endTime":1797.574,"body":"appreciate and I totally support, and this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1797.655,"endTime":1800.027,"body":"is part of the whole like run a profitable,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1800.087,"endTime":1801.45,"body":"sustainable business that you love."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1801.51,"endTime":1804.076,"body":"The problem is, when you put all that heart"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1804.678,"endTime":1807.791,"body":"and time and energy into something and you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1808.052,"endTime":1811.438,"body":"don't succeed, it's way harder to be like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1811.499,"endTime":1813.329,"body":"well, that didn't work, let's try something"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1813.43,"endTime":1814.031,"body":"else, yeah."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1814.132,"endTime":1817.048,"body":"And so I do think that there is a balance"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1817.088,"endTime":1817.71,"body":"to be struck."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1817.89,"endTime":1819.996,"body":"No matter where you fall on the spectrum of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1820.036,"endTime":1822.389,"body":"people who are like, business minded versus"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1822.429,"endTime":1824.295,"body":"like a hundred percent, I'm here for the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1824.416,"endTime":1824.577,"body":"art."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1825.54,"endTime":1827.407,"body":"Wherever you are on that spectrum, it is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1827.468,"endTime":1830.18,"body":"important to set yourself up sustainably"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1830.502,"endTime":1832.728,"body":"and to set yourself up profitably, because"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1833.029,"endTime":1835.675,"body":"let's say that, like it's, things are not"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1835.735,"endTime":1837.888,"body":"great in the industry this particular year"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1838.049,"endTime":1838.772,"body":"and it's not."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1838.832,"endTime":1840.258,"body":"You're not, it's halfway through the year"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1840.801,"endTime":1842.387,"body":"and you are not on track to hit your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1842.709,"endTime":1843.913,"body":"financial goal for the year."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1844.596,"endTime":1846.403,"body":"But because you've set your business up in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1846.463,"endTime":1849.109,"body":"such a way where if you're not working you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1849.149,"endTime":1850.792,"body":"actually have time, you're not just"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1850.852,"endTime":1854.278,"body":"constantly like turning that wheel, then"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1854.499,"endTime":1857.513,"body":"you could go out and you know, get like,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1857.653,"endTime":1860.201,"body":"put your editing services on Upwork and go"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1860.281,"endTime":1863.131,"body":"get some jobs doing other freelance work"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1863.311,"endTime":1865.74,"body":"while you're waiting for things to kind of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1866.041,"endTime":1867.786,"body":"turn around, or while you're trying"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1867.826,"endTime":1869.57,"body":"something new in your business, or while"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1869.59,"endTime":1871.976,"body":"you're implementing a new process, all of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1872.036,"endTime":1873.479,"body":"those things you know."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1873.86,"endTime":1876.907,"body":"The sustainability piece allows you to kind"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1876.968,"endTime":1880.999,"body":"of grow and shrink and pivot the amount of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1881.14,"endTime":1882.885,"body":"effort that you're putting in without"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1883.125,"endTime":1885.19,"body":"having to throw the whole thing out just"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1885.27,"endTime":1886.933,"body":"because it's been a tough season."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1888.036,"endTime":1891.031,"body":"Yes, that is really exactly the point and I"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1891.072,"endTime":1892.829,"body":"want you to like I want to say that again"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1892.909,"endTime":1894.353,"body":"so that people really hear that because"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1894.413,"endTime":1897.548,"body":"it's like if you, if you already have it,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1897.729,"endTime":1901.115,"body":"your business set up sustainably, you can"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1901.556,"endTime":1904.028,"body":"grow the amount of time you put into it or"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1904.168,"endTime":1905.832,"body":"shrink the amount of time that you put into"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1905.912,"endTime":1907.885,"body":"it, but your profit margins will be the"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1907.835,"endTime":1908.315,"body":"same percent, no matter what."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1908.264,"endTime":1908.661,"body":"And so then, if you need to shrink, like"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1908.611,"endTime":1909.328,"body":"the time that you put into it, but your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1909.277,"endTime":1909.786,"body":"profit margins will be the same percent, no"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1909.735,"endTime":1910.016,"body":"matter what."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1910.456,"endTime":1912.859,"body":"And so then, if you need to shrink, like,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1913.119,"endTime":1914.241,"body":"the time that you're putting into your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1914.281,"endTime":1915.306,"body":"business, god forbid."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1915.366,"endTime":1917.292,"body":"Let's say something you know terrible"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1917.332,"endTime":1919.766,"body":"happens a health crisis, or like you need"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1919.786,"endTime":1922.152,"body":"to just take some time away, you are still"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1922.272,"endTime":1924.658,"body":"able to be profitable in 20% of the time"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1924.705,"endTime":1926.229,"body":"that you were, you know, putting into it."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1926.43,"endTime":1929.298,"body":"Or you know when I I which I am sure will"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1929.338,"endTime":1932.174,"body":"happen when the tailwind comes again, and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1932.215,"endTime":1934.142,"body":"then you're able to like open your sales."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1934.323,"endTime":1936.551,"body":"You're at a hundred percent and you are not"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1936.591,"endTime":1937.114,"body":"missing out."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1937.154,"endTime":1938.539,"body":"You're a hundred percent profitable."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1938.961,"endTime":1941.127,"body":"So, like you know that you are already set"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":1941.168,"endTime":1942.45,"body":"up for success, no matter what."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1942.891,"endTime":1946.198,"body":"Yeah, and I that has kept my business"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1946.726,"endTime":1948.911,"body":"afloat for all these years."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1949.091,"endTime":1952.298,"body":"It really has been, at least in the last"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1952.358,"endTime":1954.749,"body":"half, since I didn't have, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1955.751,"endTime":1958.857,"body":"ex-husband's income, for you know, for the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1958.897,"endTime":1962.591,"body":"last seven years that was not a factor."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1962.731,"endTime":1965.076,"body":"And all of a sudden it was like I gotta, I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1965.096,"endTime":1966.786,"body":"gotta be responsible for all this stuff."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1967.608,"endTime":1970.636,"body":"The fact that that happened and that I then"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1970.736,"endTime":1972.972,"body":"was like, okay, I gotta get really serious"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1973.012,"endTime":1975.06,"body":"about the sustainability piece of things."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1975.763,"endTime":1978.452,"body":"It's the only reason that I've been able to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1978.552,"endTime":1981.702,"body":"stay in business and continue to make money"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1981.863,"endTime":1982.485,"body":"as a photographer."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1982.745,"endTime":1985.872,"body":"I feel like that, plus having this growth"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1985.932,"endTime":1987.695,"body":"mindset where I was like, well, all this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1987.815,"endTime":1992.191,"body":"crappy stuff is going on and I can be upset"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1992.211,"endTime":1994.397,"body":"about it and like whatever, and I can shut"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1994.437,"endTime":1994.637,"body":"down."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1994.765,"endTime":1996.495,"body":"And that was, you know, again, not only a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1996.575,"endTime":1998.004,"body":"reasonable option, but one that I was"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1998.024,"endTime":1998.986,"body":"strongly considering."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":1999.888,"endTime":2001.412,"body":"That because I was like I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2001.432,"endTime":2004.799,"body":"continue to just see, let's just see, let's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2004.865,"endTime":2006.612,"body":"try something different, and it might fail,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2007.186,"endTime":2009.673,"body":"but if it doesn't fail, I get to continue"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2009.713,"endTime":2011.745,"body":"doing this thing that I love, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2011.765,"endTime":2014.146,"body":"that's, you know, I guess, at the end of"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2014.166,"endTime":2016.788,"body":"the episode, at the end of the day, that's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2016.868,"endTime":2018.668,"body":"really the message that I want to put out"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2018.708,"endTime":2021.81,"body":"there for everyone listening is that, like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2023.593,"endTime":2026.097,"body":"it is hard, business is hard a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2026.117,"endTime":2029.163,"body":"time and it's particularly, I think,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2029.203,"endTime":2031.594,"body":"difficult because when you're your own boss"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2031.754,"endTime":2033.579,"body":"and you're working for a company of one,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2033.8,"endTime":2035.591,"body":"it's you're having these conversations in"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2035.612,"endTime":2038.939,"body":"your head, yeah, and it tends to be that,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2039.059,"endTime":2041.263,"body":"like the, you know, the gremlins come out"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2041.55,"endTime":2044.336,"body":"and they're based in fear, fear of failure,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2044.476,"endTime":2047.342,"body":"fear of, you know, am I wasting time?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2047.402,"endTime":2048.104,"body":"Am I does?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2048.27,"endTime":2049.393,"body":"Is everyone laughing at me?"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2049.553,"endTime":2052.18,"body":"Whatever your particular flavor of fear is,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2052.481,"endTime":2054.254,"body":"and you can really talk yourself into a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2054.294,"endTime":2056.36,"body":"situation where you're like, nevermind, I'm"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2056.38,"endTime":2057.162,"body":"just going to walk away."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2057.53,"endTime":2058.854,"body":"And again, there's nothing wrong with"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2058.874,"endTime":2059.415,"body":"walking away."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2059.455,"endTime":2061.822,"body":"But if you do it because of something like"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2062.01,"endTime":2065.437,"body":"fear, then that really is sad to me."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2065.677,"endTime":2068.602,"body":"I, the reason that I'm here doing like the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2068.703,"endTime":2071.895,"body":"education side of my business, is that I"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2072.677,"endTime":2075.644,"body":"want more photographers to run these"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2076.746,"endTime":2078.31,"body":"sustainable businesses, these profitable"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2078.47,"endTime":2080.913,"body":"businesses, because I think that this is"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2080.974,"endTime":2084.198,"body":"such a beautiful addition to the world."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2084.839,"endTime":2087.042,"body":"I think that you know being able to see,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2087.542,"endTime":2091.833,"body":"show people their every day through, you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2091.873,"endTime":2093.256,"body":"know, your vision."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2093.837,"endTime":2096.563,"body":"I think it enriches people's lives and it"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2096.583,"endTime":2098.332,"body":"certainly, as an artist, has enriched my"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2098.393,"endTime":2098.713,"body":"own life."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2098.753,"endTime":2102.622,"body":"So I I just would love to caution everyone"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2102.682,"endTime":2105.317,"body":"out there to to take it slow, take, take"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2105.377,"endTime":2108.628,"body":"the uh, try and, you know, do your"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2108.769,"endTime":2111.655,"body":"frustrated dance and then, uh, unless"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2111.675,"endTime":2113.679,"body":"you're walking away, get back on the horse"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2113.86,"endTime":2116.753,"body":"and like and figure out, yeah, like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2116.793,"endTime":2119.564,"body":"so recap, figure out what's your, what's"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2119.584,"endTime":2121.21,"body":"your little mini boss for 2025?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2121.591,"endTime":2123.715,"body":"Like, take a step back, look at your"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2123.755,"endTime":2124.116,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2124.717,"endTime":2125.439,"body":"What is it that?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2125.599,"endTime":2127.463,"body":"What tool do you need to go back?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2127.59,"endTime":2129.214,"body":"What spell do you need to go learn?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2129.254,"endTime":2131.058,"body":"Like, what is it that you need to figure"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2131.179,"endTime":2135.094,"body":"out to get to beat the mini boss of 2025?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2135.614,"endTime":2137.638,"body":"And then also I would say, like Annamie"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2137.678,"endTime":2142.412,"body":"saying re, like, re, define or re remember"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2142.934,"endTime":2144.739,"body":"what success looks like for you."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2144.84,"endTime":2147.649,"body":"Like, I think there is a lot of noise out"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2147.669,"endTime":2149.754,"body":"there about like you're only successful in"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2149.834,"endTime":2151.899,"body":"photography if you make X amount of money,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2151.979,"endTime":2154.634,"body":"and that is just not true in photography or"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2154.834,"endTime":2155.396,"body":"any business."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2155.416,"endTime":2157.884,"body":"There are plenty of reasons for you to"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2157.944,"endTime":2160.331,"body":"start a any kind of business out there, but"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2160.371,"endTime":2161.855,"body":"certainly a photography business, that are"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2161.915,"endTime":2164.061,"body":"not financial, purely financial."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2164.562,"endTime":2166.315,"body":"So, like, you know, if you are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2166.395,"endTime":2168.893,"body":"hitting your income goal and still able to,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2169.013,"endTime":2171.559,"body":"you know, stay home with your kids or do"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2172.1,"endTime":2173.831,"body":"work another full-time job that you also"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2173.891,"endTime":2176.635,"body":"really love, or, you know, if this, again,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2176.976,"endTime":2181.103,"body":"not everybody's end is the same end, right?"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2181.924,"endTime":2183.255,"body":"So I think those are."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2183.456,"endTime":2184.963,"body":"That's what I would say to people right now"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2185.104,"endTime":2186.731,"body":"is, like, as we are coming into this new"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2186.792,"endTime":2189.502,"body":"year, gamify your business a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2189.562,"endTime":2191.228,"body":"take a critical look at it and then just"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2191.309,"endTime":2193.558,"body":"remember like what success looks like for"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2193.598,"endTime":2193.799,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2193.859,"endTime":2196.068,"body":"Make sure that your ladder is leaning up"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2196.108,"endTime":2197.091,"body":"against the right building."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2198.013,"endTime":2200.158,"body":"I want to go back and count all of the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2200.178,"endTime":2202.302,"body":"different metaphors and similes that we"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2202.423,"endTime":2203.391,"body":"used in this episode."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2203.471,"endTime":2204.172,"body":"We're insane."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2204.313,"endTime":2205.955,"body":"I know we're just metaphor queens."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2205.996,"endTime":2206.877,"body":"We can't help it."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2207.117,"endTime":2208.099,"body":"If you saw me talk."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2208.46,"endTime":2210.323,"body":"I should put in the intro something about"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2210.363,"endTime":2211.445,"body":"this should be a drinking game."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2212.411,"endTime":2212.932,"body":"It is."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2213.353,"endTime":2214.816,"body":"We've outdone ourselves."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2214.896,"endTime":2217.34,"body":"But I also really like, enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2217.38,"endTime":2219.851,"body":"conversation and hope that everybody"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2219.891,"endTime":2221.736,"body":"listening did too, cause I I think it's an"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2221.776,"endTime":2224.342,"body":"important one and and I appreciate you"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2224.41,"endTime":2225.774,"body":"being here to talk with me about it."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2226.015,"endTime":2228.53,"body":"Yeah and um, thanks for having me on, and"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2228.57,"endTime":2230.298,"body":"if you guys, you know like we're, we're"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2230.338,"endTime":2232.769,"body":"here on social media, we're on Facebook,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2232.789,"endTime":2234.23,"body":"we're in Facebook, we're on Instagram."},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2234.43,"endTime":2237.617,"body":"I know it can feel a little scary to like,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2237.777,"endTime":2240.082,"body":"leave a comment or send a DM, but like,"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2240.643,"endTime":2242.574,"body":"that's what we're here for, so reach out if"},{"speaker":"Dayna Schaaf","startTime":2242.595,"endTime":2243.217,"body":"you need support."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2247.93,"endTime":2249.571,"body":"And if you need more Dana in your life,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2249.591,"endTime":2250.892,"body":"make sure you join the consistency club."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2250.912,"endTime":2251.272,"body":"That's where I am."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2251.292,"endTime":2251.633,"body":"Oh my goodness."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2251.733,"endTime":2253.494,"body":"All right, well, thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2253.594,"endTime":2254.695,"body":"I will talk to you soon."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2254.915,"endTime":2258.417,"body":"Bye, everybody, bye, Well, that's it for"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2258.457,"endTime":2259.598,"body":"this week's episode of this."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2259.638,"endTime":2260.479,"body":"Can't Be that Hard."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2260.979,"endTime":2263.061,"body":"I'll be back, same time, same place, next"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2263.141,"endTime":2263.301,"body":"week."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2263.981,"endTime":2265.542,"body":"In the meantime, you can find more"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2265.602,"endTime":2267.684,"body":"information about this episode, along with"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2267.864,"endTime":2270.065,"body":"all the relevant links, notes and downloads,"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2270.566,"endTime":2273.068,"body":"at thiscan'tbethathardcom slash learn."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2278.83,"endTime":2279.792,"body":"If you like the podcast, be sure to hit the"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2279.812,"endTime":2280.193,"body":"subscribe button."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2280.213,"endTime":2281.216,"body":"Even better, share the love by leaving a"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2281.236,"endTime":2281.637,"body":"review in iTunes."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2281.657,"endTime":2283.06,"body":"And, as always, thanks so much for joining"},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2283.1,"endTime":2283.22,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Annemie Tonken","startTime":2283.561,"endTime":2285.275,"body":"I hope you have a fantastic week."}]}