Keith: [00:00:01] All right, we're excited about our guest this week, Jenna Porcelli. Jen and I work together at BuzzFeed back in the day, and now she is the founder of Lower Bucks ISR. Jenna, welcome to the program. [00:00:10][8.8]
Jenna: [00:00:10] Hi. Thank you. [00:00:12][1.3]
Keith: [00:00:12] Really excited to hear your story, because for as long as I've known you, you were in advertising sales and we worked together. But a few years ago, you decided to venture out on your own. Can you tell us, first of all, a little bit about your company, but as well as what ISR is? [00:00:26][13.5]
Jenna: [00:00:27] That is the question like what is that? And almost the only thing that makes sense to everybody is when I'm like, OK, do you know those swim lessons where they throw babies in and people are like, oh yeah. I'm like, yeah, that's ISR, but that's not ISR. So I guess we can get to that, but we don't throw babies in, to be clear. I got certified to teach ISR in 2019 and then subsequently started... [00:00:52][25.3]
Keith: [00:00:53] What is the acronym? Sorry, let's start there. [00:00:53][0.4]
Jenna: [00:00:54] Oh yeah. It stands for Infant Swimming Resource and they are survival swim lessons for babies and young children. So they start at six months old. We take little ones as soon as they're six months and they can sit up independently and then we say till six years old. But most instructors, including myself, will see kids really of any age of time, grandparents and parents. So there's really no age limit on it. But I guess for slogan purposes, you got to say a cap. [00:01:21][27.0]
Keith: [00:01:21] Great. And it's really about the safety in water more than swimming, is that correct? [00:01:26][4.8]
Jenna: [00:01:27] It's actually both. You know, we say survival swimming because the focus is on survival. But when you can walk or run on land, swimming is a part of that survival. Right. So I'd say the hallmark of ISR is this, what we call the roll back to float? So getting to your back from any face down position, finding air and staying there for as long as you need to be able to breathe. The way you and I probably learn to swim involve treading water endlessly. I don't know if you remember being at the Y and being timed. [00:02:00][33.0]
Keith: [00:02:00] I was a guppy at the Y. Yeah. [00:02:02][1.3]
Jenna: [00:02:02] Guppy. Yeah. And so it's just so antiquated. Treading water is really tiring and becoming good at it really is kind of useless because eventually you will get too tired to continue doing it and it's not going to save your life you know, after a certain amount of time, depending upon your age and your strength. Little kids especially, their heads are so big compared to the rest of their body, that treading water is really exhausting for them. So you want to just if any of us, including no matter how old you are, if you get caught in a riptide or something or you're in an aquatic problem, you want to get to your back and be able to float and everyone can float. Men especially love to be like I can't float, I'm negatively buoyant. I hear it all the time, but really we're all bouyant, so you just have to breathe. And if it requires some instruction obviously for kids it does, but even adults who just kind of have to breathe. So yeah. That roll back to float sort of the core of ISR, but when kids are about one and a half or two and they're really becoming proficient at running on land, if you think about running, you're moving your arms and your legs in a coordinated fashion and you're moving. Right. So that's what swimming is just in the water. So moving your arms and your legs and propelling yourself forward. So when you're developmentally ready, you learn to swim, roll back, float, flip back over, keep swimming until you reach the side or the steps or the shore or whatever it may be. [00:03:26][84.5]
Keith: [00:03:27] That's amazing. How long has this program been going on? [00:03:29][2.0]
Jenna: [00:03:30] It's about fifty five years old actually. yeah. So it's been around for a minute and it was invented by I don't know if they were married at the time. A guy named Harvey Barnett and his wife, they were married for quite some time. Joanne Barnett. Joanne is still currently the CEO of ISR. I think Harvey is doing some different stuff. They're divorced and yeah, they invented it and they were like really young in response to I think Harvey was really the science. Joanne was really the behavior, because it's behavioral science is what the whole program is based off, which is pretty awesome. It's not normal swim lessons at the Red Cross or whatever. It's like a scientifically studied methodology because you're dealing with babies who can't talk. And that's also the way that it works, really is what enables us to teach it to kids. We're not a therapy program, but we can teach it to kids that have really complex medical issues or physical challenges or different abilities. It's just it's incredible. And it all comes down to the way that it's behavioral science-based. [00:04:27][57.5]
Keith: [00:04:29] And they're short, intense classes, right? [00:04:31][1.9]
Jenna: [00:04:31] Yeah. Yeah, it's very unique. People always like their eyeballs pop out of their heads and they they're like you. You want me to come? How much? So five days a week, five consecutive days a week, typically Monday through Friday for ten minutes or less. each day. Yeah. And that's for about six weeks. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. But if you think about it logically, especially anyone that has kids and you think about the way they just behave, because again, it was all way back to behavior, they do things in 10 minute increments. That's. The way they live their day, so a toddler doesn't sit there and play with something for half an hour, they play with it for 10 minutes, and that's kind of and then maybe the next day they'll go back to that toy and play with it for ten minutes. That's just how they learn that little tiny bit each day. It's the way you learn to walk, right? You don't practice walking once a week for half an hour. You practice walking, standing first and leaning on the couch and blah, blah, blah. And so those walking, riding a bike, that sort of thing is called a sensory-motor skill. It's how you don't forget it. It's like ingrained and you've learned it this cumulative way. Swimming is the exact same because like, I'm sure I don't know about you. But before I start teaching this anyway, I haven't swam in a long time, but I still remembered how to hold my breath and move through the water. So you don't forget. And that's usually a very common fear of people. They're like, oh, I'm going to make this commitment to these lessons. And it's more money at one time versus going over the course of years really to traditional lessons. So worried they're going to forget and I'm like, do you remember how to swim that? Usually they're like, oh yeah, OK. [00:06:01][89.7]
Keith: [00:06:01] It seems like a really concentrated commitment as well for the family. [00:06:05][3.4]
Jenna: [00:06:05] Yeah, it totally is, yeah. [00:06:07][1.6]
Keith: [00:06:07] And do you lose people because of that or does that become a hurdle? [00:06:10][2.5]
Jenna: [00:06:10] Yeah, I think it was at one point and I think the more normalized the program becomes and unfortunately it should have been said even early on, I should have said that drowning is the leading cause of death in children one to four. So it's 2021. That statistic is like bonkers to me that we have not fixed this problem because that- it has not changed. It's remained unchanged. And unfortunately in these past fifty five years, I guess the way ISR has gotten the way more people continue to know about it is because kids continue to drown. And after that then their families find the program and are like, oh my gosh, I feel like my child would still be alive if they had these skills. And particularly in recent years, Bode Miller and his wife Morgan, their daughter drowned in June of 2018. She was only eighteen months old. Another little boy drowned on the same day, a totally different part of the country. And his mother's name is Nicole Hughes. His name is Levi Hughes. And Nicole and the Millers really had like a battle cry. They came together and kind of just said to the AAP, like, we got to change something. They have been a huge reason why ISR has become or at least drowning prevention, water safety, they have shot that topic to the top of new parents lists. And in that process, then people find ISR because both of them happen to have chosen ISR for their surviving children. I think the schedule and the money and certain things like that, even as of a few years ago, would be more hurdles depending on where you are in the country, too. But people are starting to realize that they could do this proactively. And it doesn't have to be that a drowning has happened in your community or in the news. What I feel like I've done here successfully is that it's the swim lesson to have. Everybody's like, oh, I have to do ISR. I have to. So, yeah. [00:07:56][105.2]
Keith: [00:07:56] Can we talk a little bit about the serendipity of the Internet? It's Pretty funny, where just a couple of weeks ago, I saw somebody write about what we think drowning looks like is not at all what it actually is right now, movies and TV shows. And if you watched an episode of Baywatch, what drowning looks like, that's not at all what it is. And so there are there are some telltale signs, especially for toddlers and youngsters, that I don't think most of us kind of mentally have that image. Can you walk us through a little? Totally. [00:08:22][26.1]
Jenna: [00:08:23] Yeah. So it should be said that drowning does not look like what it does in the movies. You're absolutely right. It's really silent and really fast. So a child, five under even probably even a few years older than that, and then adults not that much longer. It's about thirty seconds or less that it takes for a child to drown. Oh my God. I know. And just think about what can happen in thirty seconds. That's like reading a text. [00:08:46][23.4]
Keith: [00:08:47] Yeah. Picking up your phone split second. [00:08:48][1.4]
Jenna: [00:08:49] Picking up your phone. Yeah. What. Just logging into Instagram. Thirty seconds. So I think knowing that and really hearing it, there's some of these things that I've found that it's so interesting. People like I know I see them listening to me but they don't like hear it. And even just seeing your face right now through the screen like that is it. That number is like, whoa, when you really can understand what that means and start to accept that you're kind of on the road to really getting this whole thing. So definitely it's quick, silent. I think if there was one thing that I wanted people like anyone who has a child that can't swim right now that's listening to this, I would want them to understand, is that drowning happens at non-swim times. Meaning it doesn't happen when you're watching them like a hawk next to the pool. So people will say to me, well, I put my child in a flotation device (flotation like I could do a whole podcast just about the Dangers in flotation) Flotation is really is bad for a couple of reasons. I am sure we will touch on that. But will I watch them like a hawk? And it's like, yeah, I'm sure you do at pool time. We're no one's bringing a book when you have a two year old and you're not sitting there and just reading your book. When it happens is when you go in, you've said we're done swimming, we're going to make lunch, we're getting we're drying off. And you think that you've said we're done and one of them gets back out to the water, right? That's when it's happening. It's when you're packing the car after the cookout. It's those non swim times. So supervision is obviously very important, but we can't all watch our kids every single second of the day. So if there's water nearby, you have to have those barriers in place. It's got to be pool fences and alarms and high locks on doors. And we want to make it really hard for them to get to the pool. This includes vacation homes, like look for one with a fence. If it doesn't have a fence and you've got a kid who can't swim, don't rent it. That's we're in the process of really trying to get these VRBO or Airbnb, all of them, to get with it. You got to if you're going to rent to a family, it's got to have a pool fence, swim lessons are the next. It's these are layers of protection. So supervision, barriers, swim lessons that are high quality, that focus on survival. And then lastly, knowing CPR so that if something happens, you can do something while you wait for help. [00:11:08][138.8]
Keith: [00:11:08] That's all very important. Thank you for that. Can you talk a little bit about the puddle jumpers in the floaties and what.. It's kind of about vertical right? [00:11:16][7.9]
Jenna: [00:11:17] Yeah. Yeah. You've done your homework. I love it. Yeah. So it's a it's a twofold problem flotation and it's puddle jumpers are really bad because like that you can now at this point they are known by name and they're colorful and bright and they have pictures on them. And your kid sees it in the store and it's like, I want to wear that, or they see their buddy wearing it and I want to wear that. But just as dangerous is a life jacket when it comes to a pool. So what we're going to leave out of this whole thing is you always have to wear a life jacket on open water. Right? We know what happened to, like, the woman that drowned. That was on Glee. She was out with her son and she wasn't wearing a life jacket, Naya Rivera, and wasn't wearing a life jacket. Like we adults, children, everyone has to wear a life jacket on open water on a vessel because natural bodies of water have currents and you're no match for current. But in a pool, life jackets and puddle jumpers or water wings like we had when we were young, or these weird floats that the kid continue to develop that put babies in funky postures so that you can have your hands off them in the pool or like neck floats. I'm sitting on my lawn. All of those are dangerous for two reasons. The first is that it puts the child in a vertical posture, which is otherwise known as the drowning position, and it becomes a teacher. So it's basically like a swim lesson. Every time they wear it and they go in the water, they're being taught that they can breathe in that vertical position because they're just kind of bobbing like a cork. And if the next time they were to meet water, it were to be without that device on, if they snuck out a slider or the lawn guy leaves the pool fence open or whatever, they're going to assume that same position because they've been taught that that's how they can get air. So that's the really it's like a very effective teacher of a very dangerous skill because they cannot they can't maintain that without the device. [00:13:09][111.7]
Keith: [00:13:09] So once again, it's the downtime. It's because it's teaching improper behaviors and leading towards more danger during their downtime. [00:13:16][7.2]
Jenna: [00:13:17] Yes. So it's like, OK, so something like, well, I put that on them and I watch them and it's like, yeah, but it doesn't do them any good if they don't have it on because you went inside and you unclipped it and you thought you were done and they don't have it on and then they go to water. So the Millers and Nicole Hughes and some of these more high profile situations, a sameness that they're finding as they talk to other parents who have lost children to drowning is their last photos of their children, they're wearing those devices because they didn't know. Right. And that's why we have to keep beating this drum. And I mean, I get into it with people about this because they are defensive about those things. And then they'll say, well, I don't use the puddle jumper, I use a life jacket. And unfortunately, the life jacket in a pool where there are no currents, it's the same thing. They are bobbing like a cork. So it's just you have to hold your child. And I know that that's hard as they become two, two and a half, three, they don't want to be held. So that's when they should already have been in a high quality swim lesson where they learn to have independent skills because then if they don't want to be held, their only other option is to use their skills. And you'll actually find the one that usually would be like, oh, hold me. [00:14:26][68.5]
Keith: [00:14:27] That's a skill in and of itself that. [00:14:28][1.2]
Jenna: [00:14:28] Right. So that so that posture is one problem. And then the false sense of security that is really basically related, is that to a young child, and we could talk about toddlers here but I mean, you don't have great impulse control when you're four or five, six either. So no matter how often you tell them, don't go to the water without me. I mean, how many times do you tell your kids stuff and they don't listen? My kids don't listen anything. Right? Right. So it's people say, well, I've told them, I've told them. But to them they have no reason, they can't understand that they don't have that device on, so if they've been wearing that device and they've been getting air for it, air while doing it, there's no struggle at all. They have no reason to believe they won't just float right to the surface. And when you say, all of us have done this as parents, you stand in that water and you say, jump to me, I'll catch you. Even doing that, especially with a device on. But even doing that, catching them. To them, they just think when I jump in, I'm going to be OK. Yeah. So that's why once your kid is skilled, I'll teach a parent you to have them jump in and swim to you a little bit and then pick them up. Right. They have to know every time they get into that water, they're responsible for themselves. And the only way they're going to learn that is not if you tell them, but if they experience it the same way they experience the walking. This topic, as you can see, we've been talking for however long and it's just like a lot and I feel for the general public because it's just a lot to take in. [00:15:54][85.4]
Keith: [00:15:54] Well, yeah. I mean, I have a five-year-old daughter who still rocks the floaties and likes any flotation device that she can and kind of uses those. And it was really eye-opening for me to do a little bit of the research on this and realize I'm leading her the wrong way with this and I've got to fix and figure it out. And I can tell there's the passion that you have behind this. But, you know, I think most parents would go, absolutely, let's get these lessons for our kid. What turned you from I want my kids to have this to I want everyone's kids to have this? [00:16:23][29.3]
Jenna: [00:16:26] Goosebumps? When you asked me, I love that question. I can remember I worked at twenty-four- seven. I'll just do a little backstory. I worked at in the ad networks way back when and a cubicle mate of mine sent me a video of a child rolling back to float and I was probably twenty-three or something and I remember being like that's got to be fake and it's like a news story or something. And fast forward however many years I have my first child. I at the time lived in a house with a pool and we got a pool fence right away. And then I thought, what was that thing that I saw? Then I figure out it's ISR. The closest instructor to me was forty minutes away. And again, those lessons are daily. Ten minutes and 40 minutes each way. And I worked full time at the time. This is when I was at BuzzFeed, figured it out between the nanny, like between me, the nanny and my ex-husband, we got him there. And seeing him, He was just a little fat meatball baby Right? And seeing him roll to his back. Alone and get air and stay there was like it blew me away. He could do no things, he was just a meat loaf and then he could do this and I couldn't stop talking about it. So I talk about it to everybody and they'd be like, this sounds amazing. And then they'd say, but and I'm like, yeah. So, you know, it's not here. Unfortunately, like the closest one is in this town. And they'd be like, Oh yeah, I'm out. Yeah, I'm out. And I was like, oh what? I was like, truly bummed I just wanted more people to do this. And there was along the path that kind of led me to doing it was I never forgot about that feeling that I had. And there's so much like you as a parent, get so much out of the experience and your child get so much out of the experience. It becomes this love fest of it, of a thing, even though people approach it. It sounds inconvenient because [00:18:27][121.3]
Keith: [00:18:28] it [00:18:28][0.0]
Jenna: [00:18:29] sounds expensive. It is. And so they're especially initially as people start to learn about it here, I think there they're like, oh, I can do this program. What happens when they join it is they're obsessed. And I was obsessed. That's what led me down this road. And now I find all these families that I reach, they're just obsessed and they won't stop talking about it. It's great. [00:18:50][21.1]
Keith: [00:18:50] So inconvenient, expensive, but it's rewarding at the end. I got to imagine there are some classes that you have to take to be certified. And it's not just physical, but it sounds like psychological and behavioral sciences. Yeah, yeah. What does the program look like to become certified? [00:19:05][15.0]
Jenna: [00:19:06] So you'd go through an interview process? You can go to our careers.com and there's careers content that kind of gives you some first-person instructors talking about their experiences and stuff like that, about becoming trained. And then you go through an interview and if you're kind of moved along, you ultimately, if you get through the whole process, you get assigned to your matched up with a master instructor who you not only teach children these skills but can teach student instructors to teach the skills. So I got matched with two master instructors. Usually, you go to them wherever they're located so you can go to Arizona or to Florida or wherever. There's sometimes you can get assigned someone to come to you, which was what needed to happen for me. And so in that case, I had one master instructor for the first few weeks of my training and the second master instructor for the back half of it. And I did about one hundred and eighty hours. I mean, I went like hard training. [00:20:00][54.6]
Keith: [00:20:01] Were you still working full-time when you were doing that? [00:20:03][1.6]
Jenna: [00:20:03] I was, yeah. I quit. So I was like cramming. I did because you're a part of it's in water and then you're correct. Some of it's academics and it's like kind of like going back to school in this truncated timeline is so intense and you realize that it's been forever since I've had to learn this way, like just like your brain just about to explode. So I had to do a lot of it on the weekends. I wake up at like four-thirty in the morning, do my training before, my in water before work hours, do a little bit of the academics over lunch and then log back on after my kids went to bed. So it was intense for sure, but it was you come out of it and you're like you're ready to, to do it, you're ready to teach. [00:20:43][39.5]
Keith: [00:20:44] It's amazing. And did you find clients right away? Was it something where you had people say, you get the class and I'll sign up? Or did you start to have, did you have to start from scratch? [00:20:53][9.3]
Jenna: [00:20:54] Yeah, I had zero before the training, but so the training, you need kids. You need students. OK, so that was one big reason why I did also want the training to happen where I was. Not only could I not have traveled somewhere at the time, but I was like, I'm going to make this happen where I'm going to start the business before it's even really fully start before it's even me. So I had to get the students for the master instructors to teach for me to be there and shadow them. And so then that led me. I already had some momentum coming out of my training. That part of it helped me jump-start the business for sure. But mind you, this was late 2019 and we all know what happened in 2020, so I've yet to have a tough time on that front. Believe it or not, but some of that has to do too with the ad sales background and all of that of being able to get clients and build awareness and all that. [00:21:44][50.5]
Keith: [00:21:44] Yeah, it's funny, one kind of connective thread to a lot of the conversations I've had is people who are starting these companies not afraid of cold calling or reaching out. And I know you're mad because I work with, you know, talk about some of that, too, of kind of putting yourself out there. And, you know, it's different to have the BuzzFeed name behind your or the scary mommy or the 24/7 name behind you. And now it's just you going out there. And this is what my company does. [00:22:11][27.1]
Jenna: [00:22:12] Yeah. It was a lot of like what I would now file under digital conflict resolution, like in moms groups on Facebook and stuff, because even as recently as a few years ago, people would say, like the lessons are traumatizing because kids cry at the beginning of lessons and people know about that. And I do a lot of parent education and a lot of expectation setting now about, yes, your child is going to cry because you are handing them to a brand new person in a brand new place. And I am asking them to do hard things. But the program is designed to get them to feel successful very quickly. And when they feel successful and they know what to expect, those emotions come down. But that is hard to prove to people without teaching yet. So like without having other people vouch for you, essentially. Because I did everything through social media, that was how I built awareness was moms groups on social media, because that's my target audience is just other moms in my community doing this thing that some people, their knee jerk reaction was like, that's traumatizing or that's expensive. And you know how social media makes everybody so bold. They'll say these things right to you on the comment thread and you're like, I'm trying to help my best. So it was an interesting experience for sure that to start something from nothing. But I loved that part of it. I was like, oh, I'm here for this. [00:23:35][82.3]
Keith: [00:23:35] That's fantastic. When did you realize it was something? Because you said it was taking the classes as kind of a side hustle. When did you realize I need to quit my full-time job and do this full-time? [00:23:45][9.9]
Jenna: [00:23:46] So I got certified fall of 2019. I was working for Scary Mommy at the time and my, my situation there was I was pretty remote. I would have to go into New York a little bit. [00:23:56][10.1]
Keith: [00:23:57] Yeah. You were the remote worker before all of us became remote workers. [00:24:00][3.7]
Jenna: [00:24:01] Yes. Yeah. Which was, you know, actually felt like I was really good at it. But it's hard. And now I think everybody has a better understanding of that. But at the time, everyone always felt like when I was at BuzzFeed, I was a little bit less remote than I was at Scary Mommy, people were always you know, they're like, you're so lucky. And I'm sure you just like I think the assumption was you're just like dicking around all day. [00:24:21][19.9]
Jenna: [00:24:23] But you're like, this is actually really hard because I can fit like a run to the grocery store in around, you know, when I don't have a meeting. You're also, like, always working. And I think now with covid, people really understand that when you're from home and you're fully remote, you kind of don't have a time to shut off either. So, yes, you can do other things then you're like always connected. Your house is your office. Like, it's just challenging. But anyway, so BuzzFeed was remote, Scary Mommy was remote. I definitely leveraged a little bit of that flex of not having to commute two hours into New York. So I live in Pennsylvania and I was giving them like, listen, now, I guess because it's in my rearview I can say, like, wasn't given them one hundred percent of my effort. By that point, I was starting to get a little tired of media. By that, my media fatigue was setting in, but I was given them I was giving everybody quite a bit. I think I was the only one that was really not giving back to myself at that time, was working really hard. I lost like a big deal. That kind of was an internal politic issue. It was like someone else had sold something with like a larger dollar amount attached to one like pharma drug. And I got the competitor and the competitors was less but was going to launch sooner or something. That one happening that one deal was the thing that was like I was like, you know, I'm done. I got to figure something else out with I want to move on and start my own business. I'm going to really lean into thinking about how to do this full-time. But I still didn't do it. And I got laid off from Scary Mommy actually right before covid like March 13th. I think it was when I got [00:25:59][95.8]
Keith: [00:25:59] I mean, that's Covid [00:26:00][0.8]
Jenna: [00:26:00] that is covid. Like covid was happening. They weren't closing the office. They were taking forever. And at this point also, I should add, like I had decided to get divorced in November of 2019, so I was dealing with that. [00:26:15][14.4]
Keith: [00:26:16] Well, they say to make all the stressful things happen at once, that's the best way to do that. [00:26:19][3.7]
Jenna: [00:26:20] They are, you know, they're whoever is [00:26:21][1.5]
Keith: [00:26:22] the exact opposite. [00:26:23][0.5]
Jenna: [00:26:23] But it was just like so much. But in a way it was kind of great to just be like, you know what, my life makes no sense right now. I'm just going to do I'm going to just take this big risk. I'm going to jump off a cliff. And I think that acceptance and allowing yourself to. Yeah, like permission to fail, sorry, like to say, like if I fail, it's OK and I'm going to figure it out but if I don't do this, I'm going to torture myself. So I did get laid off from Scary Mommy. I moved, like I was closing on the house basically like a few days before I was offed and but I move and the world is shut down and I start, I guess in sort of that initial before I really thought about it, I'm like, well, I guess I'll start interviewing. And so I start talking right away. I have a million opportunities, the best one being Tik-Tok. And they courted me hard. It was great. Something to feel good about at that time. And then I was about to accept the offer and I just thought, what am I doing? I have every opportunity right now to just try this, like the lessons. And I had huge waitlists for people and some were showing interest. This is now like think late spring of 2020 and people were showing interest and in lessons, even though we were not technically allowed to work again, like stay at home orders. And life was so weird. And I just, I said, you know, I'm just going to I'm going to do it now. Yeah. So it just really it was great the world universe forced me in some ways. But my best advice is, I think to anyone who's just wrestling with this is that if you just tell yourself you're going to be all right if you don't make it, you're just going to figure something else out. But like, just do it knowing you don't know what's going to happen. [00:28:05][101.6]
Keith: [00:28:05] Yeah, I love that. I love that so much because I think so many people, especially our age. Right. Who have worked in the corporate world, who have gotten promotions and pay raises, that becomes kind of these handcuffs that I'm used to making this amount of money. I'm used to this type of team behind me. But making that leap and having the confidence in yourself, especially at a point of failure, is so admirable. It's pretty awesome. [00:28:27][22.0]
Jenna: [00:28:28] Thank you. Yeah, it's super cool. And I think, you know. It's so scary, but again, it's like like turning the way that you look at it, like, yeah, it's scary to think about. Like some weird things freak me out, like the minutia of having to get my own health insurance. I was like enough to make me not. I'm just like, I don't know how to do that. I know Obama's had said you could just like this website, but I just I couldn't I don't know, it all overwhelmed me, like little things like that. I don't love minutia. So that is a struggle for me. But I just kept thinking, like. It sounds scary and expensive to do some of these things, but I'm just going you to sort of surrender. Yeah, yeah. And then you realize the power in it. [00:29:07][39.1]
Keith: [00:29:07] You realize those hurdles aren't as big as you thought they were going to be right? Sitting there and kind of drafting out which health care you're going to take and how much out of pocket it's going to be. Which is insane [00:29:17][10.1]
Jenna: [00:29:18] It is insane. It's like put one foot in front of the other and just do it. And sometimes in the middle of these tasks that I hate doing. I've recently been exploring renting a commercial space to put a pool in. Actually, I've had to pause that for the time being because the real estate market is just absolutely bonkers here. But there's so much minutia with that, just like the health department and things. Again, I'm like, oh, I wish I could pay somebody to do these things for me, but I just find if you're like just day by day, bite off little chunks instead of trying to eat the whole thing at once. You know, [00:29:47][29.2]
Keith: [00:29:48] that's great advice. Yeah. Yes. And so now how big is the company now? It started with just you and a few families saying yes to this. How are you juggling everything right now [00:29:58][10.6]
Jenna: [00:29:59] It is so awesome. I have. So it's still right now it's just me. But I've brought on that covid summer, one of my master instructors came back and taught under my business name. So that was really great. So we reached double the amount of kids this summer, actually did the same thing where I brought two different master instructors in from out of state because I had helped coordinate a training of two new instructors. Both happened to be swim moms of mine. So they I taught their children they love the program. And one lives in Princeton, New Jersey, which is only about 20 minutes from here. Twenty-five minutes. So she'll be teaching ISR there so that people don't have to travel to me. And then the other woman is going to be teaching in my town kind of under my business umbrella. So it's we are sort of a team growing into a team. It's not the most scalable business of all time because you have to just sort of you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot where you want you want to be able to give a lot of people lessons and not have to carry a really big waitlist because you don't want anything to happen to someone who's just waiting on your waitlist. But you have to be smart business-wise, too, so you can't explode your growth. But I teach about personally between one fifty and two hundred kids a year. OK, so that [00:31:15][76.1]
Keith: [00:31:16] Oh wow, that's wild. And I mean it is a service business. Right. And it's funny, I've talked to a lot of people who are creating services, businesses where investors don't want to invest because it doesn't quote unquote scale. But what you're doing is important for families and what you're doing is crucial to the health and safety of their children. So the value is absolutely there. How many instructors are there in the country doing? [00:31:39][23.4]
Jenna: [00:31:40] Oh, I really should know the answer to that. It's a global company. So we actually have folks in different countries as well. But I want to say the number is probably around fifteen hundred, but it might be a little bit more than that or a little bit less. I'm not exactly sure. There's certain pockets of the country in particular that have like a lot of instructors, Florida, Texas. So places where there's water all year round. I'm really proud that in Pennsylvania I think there's maybe about nine of us. And Pennsylvania is a big state, but there's a lot of us because we've built that interest. And that's something I'd say to people that are maybe are thinking about doing this or and maybe have the foresight to say, well, but then what if other people come and do it by me and ISR is careful about that. They're not going to skill too many instructors in one market. They make sure the market can bear it. But the more people do this, the more people talk about it and the busier we all stay without being overburdened. Over the past year, I've been overburdened because I don't want to say no to people. I have to, but I don't want to because I want to help them. But I can't do it all myself. So you have to kind of it's one of those things that there's a way bigger, higher calling here. And you've got to balance your business wants and needs and goals and all that with also remembering that what you do is massively important and you have to have no ego about it. So having another instructor come on board for me, a no brainer. I want more people to have these lessons better for my business and better for the safety of the community. [00:33:14][94.0]
Keith: [00:33:14] And in some ways, maybe better for your mental health, too. Right? I mean, one of the things that I've learned and I've heard from so many is that it's lonely at the top or it's lonely when you're starting your own company, where when we were working in the corporate world, you can tap somebody on the shoulder and say, can we go get a drink? I've got to talk to me. Yes. Or now we don't have that. So what are some of those outlets for you? Is it friends, family, other? [00:33:37][23.0]
Jenna: [00:33:38] Yeah. I mean, you know, I have two little kids. My kids right now are my little one is about to turn four and a few weeks and then my son is six. So they certainly being able to focus on them when I have them. Right now, I'm divorced and have split custody, so trying to give them all I got when I have them. And then in a way, covid has been good for some of these remote relationships, after I moved out of New York, some of our coworkers from BuzzFeed just keeping in touch with them and they genuinely are happy for me and believe in me. You know, I listen to the comedian that you had on that right now. Yeah, he had said. Like when you see your friends go from just supporters to believers, those are the people that I try to give a lot of my time to when I can, because they really do believe in me. And it's it's great. And they're so, so, so supportive [00:34:28][49.9]
Keith: [00:34:28] You've even trained some of their kids, right? [00:34:30][1.2]
Jenna: [00:34:30] Yes, I have. And I so grateful that they've that they've trusted me. And for them to travel here from out of state to get lessons is a huge compliment unto itself. Really. Yes. Trying to maximize that quality time. And then I also spend a good amount of time trying to think about in that thing of not being so lonely at the top is like I do try to use these past experiences in corporate and trying to be creative and all of that to be like, what else can I do here? This isn't a normal business to scale, but how else can I diversify what I'm doing? And when you run the business, you can again, when you don't have that fear of failure is like, is it so intense? You just kind of like, I'm here to try something. I can try that attitude. [00:35:16][45.8]
Keith: [00:35:17] And you are working with with ISR corporate, correct? [00:35:19][2.4]
Jenna: [00:35:20] Yes. Yes, I do a bit of work for them with their social media and kind of the brand overall brand director for them, which is something that almost manifested itself through the process, obviously become an instructor, get to know the business and then get to know people internally that are like, can you help us with this actually? And that's turned into a whole other separate opportunity that has allowed me to dip my hands into like all these other projects. And I can still flex those muscles from way back when and help in another way, help this mission in another way, because teaching ISR is really demanding on your body like you're kind of saying, like your mental health, your emotional health. And so I do try to think about like I am the business. So I need to also make sure I've got other things to do that aren't fully reliant on my teachings. Like what if I, like, blow out my shoulder or something? You know, sometimes feels like that's going to happen. [00:36:11][50.8]
Keith: [00:36:11] But you're in the water with the with the kids. So, yeah, [00:36:15][3.1]
Jenna: [00:36:15] like six hours a day. There was in the spring I was teaching 50 kids a day. [00:36:19][4.1]
Keith: [00:36:20] Oh, wow. And I read that it's not just the in-the-water training. There's also conversations with the parents that happen before. I love that. talk a little bit about that. Again, that's the mental and the psychological part of this. [00:36:30][10.4]
Jenna: [00:36:31] Yeah. You're dealing with someone who's you're asking so many people, especially if they're a first time mom, like they're handing you their baby and they're not a part of it. They are a huge part of it. And that they're on the pool side and their support is invaluable to their child. But their kid is going to learn how to do something without either of us. Right. So that for some parents is a really emotional process because it's weird that your little baby is going to be independent. And there's a lot of fear still, no matter how much education we do, as you can tell, it's a lot. It's like I said, it's just a lot of info drowning prevention stuff than we can teach you about the lessons themselves. What's going on, how we keep them safe. ISR is the safest program you will ever find. We have so many safety protocols. We're so highly trained. Every student has to be cleared by a team of nurses. It's crazy actually on that front. But I still get parents on day one to ask me about dry drowning, which, by the way, is not a thing. It's not a medical term. But people are so afraid and so there's a lot of education to do. And beyond the drowning prevention, the lessons themselves that education, what we're really doing is changing the culture around water and how our culture approaches water. It is meant to be fun, but only when you're skilled to manage it. And a lot of us are like we just think about it as fun first. And so that's really there's a lot to do. [00:37:54][83.4]
Keith: [00:37:56] And it does. You know, I recognize this in myself. There's a lot of education for the parents to get them mentally ready and prepared for their children to succeed and be successful. [00:38:06][10.0]
Jenna: [00:38:06] Yeah, I have to say things like if you can't hold it together, you got to bring a pair of sunglasses or where to sit, where for them to sit, because sometimes that in covid it's a whole different animal because some of these kids have never known any life outside of their home. Yeah. So they have severe separation anxiety and parents can have that, too. They might be saying, like my kids. So I'm so ready for them to learn this. But then they get in there and they're like, oh my gosh. So yeah, yeah, it's definitely a journey. And I just, you know, if ever I have a bad and a bad day or just like a day where, my gosh, it was so draining is the next day's always the next opportunity to just keep pushing forward. And I now know the cadence of people's emotions. I know what to expect [00:38:49][42.4]
Keith: [00:38:49] You can see that curve where they get more comfortable. Yes. So ideal set, what is the next 12 months look like for you and the company? [00:38:56][6.4]
Jenna: [00:38:56] So hopefully bringing on this other person. In and working out kind of a unique arrangement there with the business to make it so that she still has some autonomy and independence, but attached to my brand, I feel like I'm going to be learning a lot about how to scale slowly, you know, in a way that honors what I've built, but also assesses these growth goals that I have just for ISR in general. I do hope to get my own facility even comes down to like being able to control the water temperature because I'm a diva and I like I don't like it too cold and I rent right now. I rent space out of a beautiful private high school is where I've landed for this coming season. But it's hard to rely on other people, other facilities for things. So it's a goal for sure to have my own space with my business name on the door. So I would love that for the next 12 months. And that's really, you know, and then on some of the other projects that I'm working on outside of my own business, there are some really exciting things happening on the research front with drowning to help pediatrician's be able to better educate families also. And so there's a lot, I think, over the next 12 months. [00:40:06][69.2]
Keith: [00:40:06] That's a pretty packed schedule there. Yeah. For parents that have listened and learned a little bit here, where should they go to learn more etiquette, a little bit more on this? [00:40:14][7.6]
Jenna: [00:40:14] Yeah. So ISR website is infantswim.com and you can plug your zip code in or your address and actually and a whole list of instructors will come up. If there is not one, there's a form you can fill out to say that you have interests. And what I'd say to anybody who gets obsessed with this because people do and they don't have an instructor near them, start to think about if it's you, are you the next instructor? Because someone's got to do it. And sometimes in these communities where everyone is very wealthy and they're just like, well, I just want to pay someone to do it, but maybe you could do it. So send someone if you know someone, great. But you could also start thinking of if it's you. But otherwise, if there's instructors in your area, reach out to them. They can be very busy at times of the year, like spring and summer. And a lot of them book out, me included, about six months in advance. I fill up like in a day when I open the schedule. So you have to be quick. So do your research. But then when you find a person, get on their schedule. The hardest part is that first six weeks and then after that, it's really just refreshers and maintenance and you don't have to have that heavy of a commitment again and you'll be in. So yeah, go to the site and try to find an instructor near you and move on a spot if you can get it, [00:41:24][69.8]
Keith: [00:41:25] or become that instructor [00:41:25][0.7]
Jenna: [00:41:26] become an instructor. Yeah. [00:41:27][0.8]
Keith: [00:41:27] Jenna, thank you so much. It was great seeing you this great connecting and thank you again. [00:41:27][0.0]
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