Keith: [00:00:04] This is the ChangeUp, I'm Keith Hernandez, and this week we welcome Ray Ricky Rivera, founder of Norwalk Brewhouse. We talk about how his transition from musician to music producer to Brewer is more connected than you would think. How he builds a community of like-minded home brewers and how creating beer for his family is the best indication for success. All right. My next guest this week, I'm really excited about because I am a major hophead. If you know me, you know, I'd like to talk about the hazys. And so it's my honor to welcome Ray Ricky Rivera, the founder of Norwalk Brewhouse. Thank you. Right.  [00:00:39][34.9]
Ray Ricky: [00:00:40] Keith, thank you for having me on. I'm really excited to be here.  [00:00:42][2.0]
Keith: [00:00:42] Yeah, man. So let's start with the most pertinent thing. How did you get the business going? I'd like to hear a little bit about the genesis of how you jumped this off.  [00:00:49][6.7]
Ray Ricky: [00:00:49] Sure. So my journey into craft beer starts at the homebrew level. Actually, I'll take you back just a little bit further than that. I spent about 20 years in the music industry. When I was in high school, I  started off as a touring musician in a band, just kind of doing it for fun. That led to it becoming a little bit more serious and touring, recording, putting out records and things like that.  [00:01:14][25.0]
Keith: [00:01:15] What kind of music was it? [00:01:16][0.8]
Ray Ricky: [00:01:16] This was like a Latin band, kind of like funk, hip hop, and like cumbia salsa stuff. It was we were all from the same area in East Los Angeles. Most of us came from the same high school. So we were actually all under age. And when I was about 17, close to turning 18, we started touring like going outside of the city, traveling the state. And so that's really where everything begins for me. That turned into like a 20-year span of me just being immersed in the music industry, started off as a performer, moved into artist management, launched my own record label. And so throughout this whole time, I spent so much time in venues, in like bars and, you know, live venues.  One day, and this is like years later, I'm married with my family living in the city of Norwalk, which is a suburb in Southern California, just right outside of Los Angeles City, but still within L.A. County. So I'm in Norwalk and I'm working with local artists. And I quickly realized that there are no live local venues for me to put these artists. And I thought it was strange because there's actually quite a few bands and singers here in Norwalk and there's some really good talent. And, you know, when you're working with an artist, the first thing you do is book locally. You start to build your presence, and your audience right in your backyard. Well, we couldn't do that, we had to go like downtown, which is west of Norwalk, which is a good 45 minutes with traffic, or we had to go past Norwalk further east, which is Orange County, which is the same thing, traffic and a long drive. Just basically there was nothing happening here. So I started thinking like, hey, there looks like there seems to be a void here. Maybe I could be the one to start a venue. So my wife and I started kicking around ideas and I thought I wanted to open up a bar and grill. And I thought, you know what? We could have California craft beer because at that time I was just getting into craft beer. I wasn't brewing it or anything like that. I wasn't, like, serious about the craft beer industry at all. It was just an idea to have a venue that I could book artists that I was working with, realizing that there was no scene here in Norwalk. So we started to kick around ideas and I was like, yeah, let's do a bar and grill. We can have happy hour prices all day long, every day. We could have a little stage for live music and we'll have only California craft beer on tap and that'll be our thing. So I start there and I started thinking about this idea and then I end up telling myself, well, if I'm going to own a bar and grill, if I'm like serious about opening a bar and grill that serves craft beer, I should probably learn how to make beer or I should probably learn the ins and outs of beer.  [00:04:00][164.4]
Keith: [00:04:01] You're already a beer drinker. You're already drinking craft beer and you like. It was more about I actually need to know the process?  [00:04:07][5.8]
Ray Ricky: [00:04:08] Yes, I don't know why, but I just thought, like, it'd be smart for me to know what I was talking about. Like if I'm going to be sourcing craft beer from breweries up and down the state, at least that's what I was thinking. And shortly after that, I picked up a book called Brewing Up a Business by Sam Kilaguni from Dogfish Head. And this book, this book basically chronicles Sam's journey, right? How he was a college student. And as a freshman, he and his roommates brewed a batch of beer. And then right from that first batch, he was like, I'm going to start a brewery. And then he builds out Dogfish Head, which today is one of the bigger craft breweries in the United States. So that book really got me interested in the actual business of craft beer. And I just started to learn more. And I started home brewing. Through home brewing. I started the SoCal Cerveceros, which is today one of the largest Latino/people of color homebrew clubs in the country and through this Homebrew Club, I just went down this rabbit hole of homebrewing and all things craft beer. And I just started to become connected with people in the industry, people in homebrewing community. And I just start to immerse myself in this whole new world and just got sucked in, really. And once you start home brewing, it's real easy to get crazy about it. Right. So real quick, I purchased a one gallon home brew kit. Right. Which I brewed on my stovetop. So I brew this beer. About two and a half weeks later, I have a bottle of beer. I open this bottle and I hear the hiss from the carbonation writes like and I was like, oh, shit, it sounds like beer. And then I take a swig and I'm like, well, it it kind of tastes like beer.  [00:05:54][105.4]
Keith: [00:05:54] It's almost beer..  [00:05:55][0.2]
Ray Ricky: [00:05:56] It's not great. But I just basically like blew my own mind. Like I did this in my kitchen. Like what? I had no idea. And so with that I just kind of went down this rabbit hole and I was hooked. I wanted to learn more. I wanted to meet more people. And then slowly, my idea of a bar and grill morphed into a more of a brew pub model. I started to learn more about the industry. I started to learn more about the process and really started to see and meet other people who were actually in the industry, like commercial brewers, brewery owners and things like that. And so my knowledge started to grow and my ideas started to become different, really. So I was just thinking like instead of a bar and grill in Norwalk, this could be a little bit bigger. There's a lot more room here in the city because we have nothing here like we had there was nothing here. Nobody was coming to Norwalk to hang out on the weekend. There's nothing. So I started to think about creating a brew pub where it was really good food and really good craft beer. And then you have that whole life music side to it. And that was really what I started to seriously consider. And through that came the idea of Norwalk Brewhouse. So that's what I was going to name this brewpub idea.  [00:07:10][74.1]
Keith: [00:07:11] That's very cool. And do you remember the first what was the first beer that you made?  [00:07:15][3.3]
Ray Ricky: [00:07:15] It was a. Wheat ale,  [00:07:18][3.1]
Keith: [00:07:19] wheat, OK? Yeah, I tried making an IPA and it did not taste like the IPAs that I liked at the time.  [00:07:25][6.3]
Ray Ricky: [00:07:27] Yeah, first that style, you have to work on it a bit, get your hops dialed in, and but once you get it locked, then you're good to go.  [00:07:33][5.7]
Keith: [00:07:34] Yeah. And so in L.A., there's been a burgeoning craft beer scene for many years now. Right. So can you talk to me about being the new kid on the block and are people welcoming or people sharing information and helping you out, or is it more competitive than we might realize?  [00:07:47][13.6]
Ray Ricky: [00:07:48] Well, you're totally right. The L.A. craft beer scene was completely late to the party, right? You had San Diego, whose scene has been strong for a really long time, Portland, Oregon. And that area is really strong. Craft beer scene, even Northern California Bay Area. Absolutely. You know, strong craft beer scene in L.A. was super late to the party. And I would say like. It took a few years for the few L.A. breweries to really get dialed in because even though we started to see breweries pop up, the beer quality wasn't quite there yet. It was still pretty young today. Yeah, there's like a ton of breweries, really great brewers. Breweries are pumping out really solid beer, winning medals and things like that. So when I started, it was just purely homebrew. Like I didn't know anybody. I didn't really frequent breweries actually, like in Los Angeles, you know, I was drinking craft beer, but I wasn't, like, going out of my way to seek out any local breweries. Right. I was just really fresh and really new. And this is like 2014 is when I started home brewing, OK?  [00:08:48][60.6]
Keith: [00:08:49] The scene was growing at that point. It was starting to become a little bit more than just home brew. Is that correct?  [00:08:54][4.9]
Ray Ricky: [00:08:55] So there actually has been a longstanding home brew scene in Los Angeles County, but there wasn't really any Latinos getting together and see and doing their thing. And when I started home brewing, I started visiting home brew shops like buying supplies, grains and hops and yeast and things like that. I quickly realized that I found myself often being the only brown dude in the shop. And that was really, really clear to me. And I just started to think that I can't be the only one. Like, there's got to be I mean, I know other dudes, Latinos that drink craft beer, like, I can't be the only one into homebrewing. And so slowly I started I did start to meet some some people via Facebook and social media, things like that. And in 2015 me and a couple of friends that I made,  Latino home-brewers, started the SoCal Cerveceros and we were seven people. And really through that word started to spread. And sure enough, we started to find other Latinos in the area who pretty much had the same story as me, where they'd go to homebrew shops, they'd realize it wasn't very colorful, not too diverse. And they, too, were looking for a group where they felt comfortable, you know, like homebrew clubs and homebrew shops, and just the homebrew scene in general is super cool. Everybody's really, really nice. There's nobody out there that's actively saying, like, this is ours. Like you can't be here, you're different or anything like that. But its just when you're new to the scene and you're just learning like the hobby and you're trying to figure out your way, it's clear. Like you can feel like you're out of place, like you're already walking into a homebrew shop and you're already afraid to ask questions because everybody there, they already been homebrewing for years. They know their shit and so its intimidating. Exactly. So we start this Homebrew Club. SoCal Cerveceros, which translates to SoCal Brewers, and we start getting all the people who kind of generally feel the same way, like, oh, I feel comfortable being around all these brown people because I don't feel out of place. And that's really like the main story that I still hear today, even though we've been around six years now. And that was my story. You know, that that was me. Like, I just felt out of place. I was like, there's got to be other people that I can feel comfortable with that are doing this.  [00:11:12][137.5]
Keith: [00:11:13] There's a lot I love that so much, man. And how big is how big is this group now?  [00:11:17][3.6]
Ray Ricky: [00:11:17] We're over two hundred and fifty.  [00:11:18][0.9]
Keith: [00:11:19] Oh, wow. OK, and from seven to 250.  [00:11:22][2.5]
Ray Ricky: [00:11:22] Yeah. When we started it was seven people in a garage, seven strangers just kind of feeling each other out. I was like probably the least experienced brewing one gallon batches, barely like twelve months in. Some of the other guys had been brewing for several years, so they really knew their stuff. And then like the first two years, it was all dudes. We went like seven guys.  [00:11:44][21.5]
Keith: [00:11:45] That's the other problem. Right. And then it's very white dude. Yeah. Big Bearded Bros is what I usually joke.  [00:11:50][4.7]
Ray Ricky: [00:11:50] Yeah. Yeah.  [00:11:50][0.2]
Keith: [00:11:52] Big Bearded Bro Breweries is what I say.  [00:11:53][0.9]
Ray Ricky: [00:11:55] So we were like seven guys and then slowly grew to nine and then like maybe after the first year we were like a dozen. Pretty early on we realized like we can't have this be a bunch of dudes, like that's fine because that's just how it started. But there's got to be women out there. There's got to be Latina's people of color or women of color in general that are homebrewing. And we were right. Sure enough, there's a ton of them. And now we have I would say about maybe. 40 in the 40, 40 percent range of our club is women.  [00:12:28][33.7]
Keith: [00:12:29] How did you reach out to them? What was the what was the outreach to make sure that they felt included and part of this club and that it wasn't just you trying to change your diversity numbers, but you really wanted them to be part of it.  [00:12:40][10.4]
Ray Ricky: [00:12:41] You know, to be honest, it was really hard because for one, like we're a bunch of guys and like. What do we know about recruiting women, like how do we go about that? You know, and I remember there's this one particular meeting that I always remember and I always tell the story. So we were meeting in a brewery. We were like in this back room, like where they had all these, like, fermentation tanks. It was like there was like the brewery main like tasting area where everybody all the public was. And then we were in the back like in a private meeting. And so if you knew about the meeting, you would go to the back and then, you know, you hang out with us. So I remember we're in this back room. We're meeting there's about, I don't know, eight, nine guys. And we all have home brew and we're drinking. And these two women come through the door and they look and they stop. And I'm watching them. You know, they look around the room and they're like they notice a bunch of guys, random guys that they don't know and we're all drinking. And one of them asks, hey, is this the Homebrew Club meeting? Were like, yeah, yeah, this is it. You're in the right place. Come on in. And they're like, OK, cool. And they just kind of stand there and look around and they turn around. They're like, yeah, we'll be back. And then they leave and they never come back and never came back. And I just it was just so clear that, like, these two women rolled up and they were like, no, we're not going to hang out with a bunch of random dudes who are all drinking like they probably didn't feel safe. They probably didn't feel comfortable. And I knew like man, this is not going to be easy. Like, how do we get over that? How do we let them know that this is a safe space? We want to make it inclusive. We want to be welcoming and we want to open up this club to women and other people. So it took a lot of work. The turning point, there was two things that I'll say really helped us in that area. One is that a homebrew club by the name of South Central Brewing Company, there are three people, two men and a woman named Zaneta Santana, who is actually the general manager of Angel City Brewing Company in Los Angeles. OK, yeah. Yeah. So they show up one day they came together and Zaneta, her boyfriend, Melvin, is one of the brewers in their little group. They're actually home brewers who are a brewery in planning right now. So they're like a little partnership, I guess, if you will. So she shows up with her boyfriend and their friend, their brewer friend. So she didn't show up alone. So she was comfortable. She was there with her boyfriend. You know, she was cool. She was fine hanging out with random people because she was there with her boyfriend. We noticed that. And we said, well, what if we open up our membership to not just like single membership options, but like to partners and to husbands and wives and girlfriends and boyfriends or boyfriends and boyfriends or what have you, just couples in general. And so once we did that, we noticed we started to see more husbands and wives and couples in general come to the meeting and we started to get more members that way. And then our membership with women, like those numbers, started to increase. So that was a turning point for us. And luckily for us, Zaneta joined the club and she stayed and for a long time She was the only woman there. But when new members are new potential members came in, they saw her. And so they felt a little bit more comfortable. So we had one then maybe we had two and three. And then once we had a few women, other women coming in who came by themselves, we started to see women come by themselves, you know, just Brewers who were interested in the club, as our percentage of women increase and others came and they felt comfortable. And then we were able to really create this inclusive environment, that was not scary. When you came in,  when you came here.  [00:16:27][226.1]
Keith: [00:16:28] That's really cool, man, because, you know, there's layers of this intimidation factor right in and it is sort of craft or style. And what I love about what you and your crew have done is you saw the intimidation factor that you had right, of walking into the homebrew and made sure that the next crew that's coming through doesn't feel that like exclusion. Right. So I love that. I remember the first beer that I had that wasn't a Budweiser or PBR. And and it's funny for me, it was a Newcastle Brown, right? Oh, yeah. And I call it the Gateway Beer because it's not that good. So you've got so but but it does open up your palate to say, OK, beer doesn't have to taste like Bud Light or Coors Light. Do you remember the first beer that you had that opened up your palate that made you understand there could be more here?  [00:17:12][44.7]
Ray Ricky: [00:17:13] Yes, there's like two beers. So I have this memory of being at a party and somebody said, oh, hey, there's a tub over there with a bunch of drinks, help yourself. So I go over and I reach in and I pull out this green labeled beer. It was a pale ale, Sierra Nevada, and I hadn't had it before. And I pop it open and I take a swig and I remember feeling like my face was going to melt, like it was just too much for my palate, like what the hell is? I never even had this. This doesn't taste good to me and I don't believe that I finished it. But through that, you know, I was looking at a label like, what is this? Where is this from? I've never seen this before, but even though I didn't enjoy the beer, I was curious as to what it was. You know, I wanted to learn more about it. And it's funny because today like that's one of my favorite beers. It's like a classic. It's like it's an easy drinking beer. But at that time, I mean, I was probably just barely twenty-one maybe. So my palate was very, very young. I was young, my palate was young, my knowledge was very little.  [00:18:24][70.7]
Keith: [00:18:24] And there's so much going on with Sierra Nevada. Right. There is some complexity in the is there that if it's the first time you've tasted it, it's a crazy feeling series. My go-to as well. Like, if I don't know if I don't trust the art and I see a bottle, that's what I go to. I'm like, OK, I know that's going to be delicious.  [00:18:39][15.2]
Ray Ricky: [00:18:40] And, you know, like like so many other of my friends up until that point, like, the only thing I had to compare that to was Bud Light, Corona Modelo, I think. The only thing outside of those beers that I had tried was Mickey's 40 ounce, you know that Mickeys?  [00:18:58][18.2]
Keith: [00:18:59] Oh, yeah, man. I mean, the change from for us was there's country club Crazyhorse Micki's was there as well. But to go from you know, I just remember those days of being a really young person with friends where the only reason you were drinking only to get drunk.  [00:19:14][15.5]
Ray Ricky: [00:19:15] Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it was  [00:19:16][1.2]
Keith: [00:19:17] and it was horrible and painful. And I remember one time we were just all sitting there just trying to get to the end of the 40 so that we can feel something. And and I'm so happy now, you know, many, many years later that I could have a beer for taste versus, OK, this is the only thing that I got to do. So, you know, what's funny is there is a little bit of a backlash. You know, I see it on Twitter. I see it in the business world on the IPA. Right. Even in commercials. Right. I forget. I feel like it's a Jack Daniels commercial or something. It's fun. It makes fun of the IPA guy. What would you say to those folks that have never even tried an IPA or never even tried stout or reporters anything else? How would you help them kind of better understand the beer world and what's going on with it? Because there is kind of a negative connotation to the beer guy.  [00:20:03][45.8]
Ray Ricky: [00:20:04] That's you know, that's a really good question. No one has ever even asked me that before, so I haven't really thought about it too much. But you kind of got to work your way up. So I guess if you're open to try and craft beer and exposing yourself to all the possibilities that are out there, you don't want to go big right away. You want to start off with something light and kind of gradually build your palate and your senses so that you can enjoy the different beers that are out there, you know, things like Pelayos and stuff like that. Hazes. Yeah, I don't I don't think you could just jump right in. I mean, some people doing some people are like, this is great and others mostly, I would say there's a high percentage of people who try for the first time. They're like, oh, no, this is this is not my thing. And the same for me, right? When I tried the paleo for the first time, it was probably it was too much for my palate, like it was just a shock to my to my sensory overload. Yeah, exactly. Sensory overload was just too much. Right, because it was like going zero to 60, you know, like. Yeah, there's so many beers that I could enjoy and build up before the pale ale style, like, you know, a light blond or even a craft lager pilsner or what have you. I would say, like, you know, definitely don't knock it till you try it, but. But you got to start small.  [00:21:17][72.8]
Keith: [00:21:18] Yeah, that's a really good call. And I think I'd like to talk about the diversity of your beers, too, now, because I saw that you do have blonds, you have weed's, because I do think a lot of breweries do kind of go too heavy on the and again, I'm a big Karzi IPA guy. I like the styles. I love the eight to 10 percenters. But for somebody walking in, that's, again, very intimidating. I'd love to hear from you about the, you know, the styles that you're creating, the reason and rationale for having different styles and what that helps a newcomer to the brew game or anybody who wants to jump into brews. Enjoy your beers.  [00:21:50][32.2]
Ray Ricky: [00:21:51] Well, you know, it's tricky because to your point, like hazes, India, Pelayos, double IPA like those are dominating the market right now. I like the craft beer segment. Right. So every retailer has several options for the India pale ale or the hazy hazes, like still the big thing right now. So if you're new to the to the industry, like I'm still pretty new, at least in terms of being in business or trying to be in business. Like I'm pretty new, I'm pretty young. And so when I talk to people in the industry, like if I'm asking for advice or if I'm getting some kind of consultation with someone else who I know as a distributor or like a brewery owner, everybody is like, oh, you have to have a hazy in the market because that's going to sell. And I'm like, OK, that's cool. Well, for one, I don't drink and double IPAs like normally like I don't hang out at home drinking that style of beer. It's not that I don't like it. I do like that style. I enjoy a really well-made beer. It's just not my go to.  [00:22:52][60.8]
Keith: [00:22:53] So what are your go to. What's your preference.  [00:22:54][1.5]
Ray Ricky: [00:22:55] Well if I don't have to drive anywhere, I'm going to reach for a for anything that's Belgian. I'm a big fan of Belgian wit style, a Saison,  tripel Belgian. I just love what the Belgian yeast does, just really complex and interesting. I just I'm just I like Belgians, but I enjoy like blond ale, like a light blond ale, you know, lager, pilsners, anything light I kind of gravitate toward. So, yeah. So if you're if you're talking to somebody in the industry who's already selling beer and has been in it for a while, they're going to tell you. Right. Like you have to come to market with a hazy you must like that's going to sound, that's going to save you, et cetera, et cetera. And yet that might be true. But you also have to consider, at least from my perspective, you also have to consider who your target market is, you know, who's your consumer? So somebody like me. I'm all about the Latin X consumer, quote unquote, Latin X or people of color, because. Though that demographic is overlooked like, for the most part, nobody is really making beer for that demographic, you know, so what are they drinking? I'm more interested in trying to pull in new drinkers, people that may have tasted like a Shock Top or like a Blue Moon. So they have some kind of idea of what craft beer could be, but they're not, like, fully in it yet. Those are the customers that I want to reach. So I can't hit them with the, like, hazy, you know, triple dry hop or what have you. Like, I've got to come with something that's a little bit more middle of the road, something that's not going to go over their head. And part of the reason why I ended up here, meaning here as in that's the route that I want to take, is that when I would share my home brew with, like family members, they weren't really excited about it. You know, because like my cousins and my uncles, even my dad, like, they all drink Bud Light, Budweiser, Modelo, like, that's it. There's nothing else. So one year, several years ago, we were having a big party for my grandmother. She was turning 75 and she asked me to deejay and she was like, oh, if you want to bring some beer, that'd be cool. And I thought, like, oh, this is a really good chance for me to try to brew something that everybody could enjoy. So I kind of gave myself this little challenge, like, I want to show up with a keg that my cousins and uncles are going to drink. And my aunt, who, you know, like everybody, all the Budweiser and the Bud Light and the Corona drinkers, I want to try and brew something that's going to appeal to their palate. So what I settled on was a really light, crisp blond ale like blond in general is already a pretty light style. You're not going to get, like, heavy bitterness within the blond style. There's no ingredient that's going to overpower the beer. So, you know, so it's an easy-drinking light beer. But I was like, I want to make it extra light because any slight bitterness or anything that's too much is going to turn these people off. And so I brought this blond beer, five gallons. It was pretty light. Took you to my grandmother's party. And they kicked the keg like in two hours it was gone. I was I love that shit. Not only that, but like I had a couple of uncles that were like, hey, this one we like, this is good, you should do this again. And I was like, OK, that's really interesting. So I did do that again. Then I brew it several times more and shared it at local beer festivals that my Homebrew Club would host and the beer did well. So I thought, OK, well, maybe I'm on to something here. Obviously, I'm clearly I'm not the first to want to bring a light beer to the market, like there's thousands of them out there. But I think I might be one of the few who is going to actively market to this specific demographic, which is basically people like me and my cousins right there, not like deep in the craft game. Their knowledge is very minimal when it comes to their options for craft beer. Yeah, and so that's what I've chosen to do. So that's my flagship beer. When I do bring it to market sometime this year is going to be a light, a really light blond ale.  [00:27:02][246.8]
Keith: [00:27:02] I love that so much, man, because a I love the family test panel. Right. Like growing it through what your family says. Right. That because it will be the most honest with you, they're not going to sugarcoat it.  [00:27:14][11.2]
Ray Ricky: [00:27:14] One hundred percent. Yeah. Right. Ray this sucks Yeah.  [00:27:16][2.5]
Keith: [00:27:17] So go back to the lab. Right. We need something different.  [00:27:20][2.5]
Ray Ricky: [00:27:20] Yeah. You're a crappy brewer.  [00:27:22][1.3]
Keith: [00:27:23] But what I also love too is the intention of the market that you're going for. Right. Like the Latin market is huge. You know, again, we're looking at the census numbers once again, we're seeing the growth of the Latin market. And I think it's by 2030 or 2040 will be the majority. Right. And so the purchasing power continues to grow as well. Do you see this as a high growth area for you or do you see this as something that's going to be your cool little set in Norwalk and growing in the California market? Do your plans for national distribution?  [00:27:52][29.5]
Ray Ricky: [00:27:53] That's a great question. If you look at Los Angeles alone, I think we have roughly about five million Latinos. I don't I don't know exactly how many of them are. Twenty-one and over about five million alone is a huge number. So there's a huge opportunity just in this market alone. And, you know, it's funny because when I was working with artists and I was managing bands, I would joke well, kind of half-joke. I was like, you could literally go platinum in Los Angeles alone. Like you could sell enough records to have a nice income in Los Angeles alone. It's such a huge place, but there's so many of us here. So for me, it's like a no-brainer. I'm a third generation Mexican-American, born and raised in Los Angeles, specifically East Los Angeles. We're like 98.9 % of the neighborhood is Mexican-American, you know, speaks either Spanish or Spanglish. Like I know this demographic like I am my consumer. I am the target market. So why not just stick to what I know and do that? And really, that's what I think I'm doing. I'm just doing what I know. I'm just doing what makes sense to me. So it makes sense to market a beer to bring about a market that appeals to everybody that I know that is not already in craft beer, you know, because like my friends, my homebrew club and those friends. That's like a super niche, right, these people know the ins and outs of like grains and hops and they brew every style of beer under the sun, like, that's not my target market. Like, these are super beer nerds, right? So it's super niche. Like you're not going to sell a lot of beer. It's such a small piece of the market, if that makes sense.  [00:29:41][107.4]
Keith: [00:29:41] That absolutely does. Yeah. And I love going after the people, you know, and the people you love. And you can see some of that in the artwork, in the branding of your cans as well. Can you talk a little bit about the inspiration of a the naming that you've had for some of the beers that you've come out with and then some of the artwork with the cans?  [00:29:57][15.6]
Ray Ricky: [00:29:58] Sure, yeah. It's interesting because when you think of the name Norwalk Brewhouse, it's not very cultural. It doesn't evoke like Mexican-American owned or even Latino owned. And so I think that's a little tricky. But partly that's because my first idea was to build something that was hyper-local because I saw that there was a void in the local market. And so Norwalk Brewhouse, Norwalk, because I'm in the city of Norwalk, but even Norwalk is roughly, I don't know, 75 percent Latino within itself. OK, again, like when I was in music like I was in this Latin band, our lyrics were in Spanglish. So it's just my natural makeup, like when I'm thinking about beers and I'm thinking about the ideas and stories that I want to portray and tell, it's that. It's coming from a third-generation Mexican-American like that, we've been in this country for a long time, I've been in Los Angeles my entire life. It's all I know. So it's just really natural. Like when I'm thinking about names, I'm thinking about, you know, what speaks to the audience that I'm talking to. And mainly, again, I'm thinking about my cousins and my friends, and they're mostly bilingual, also second or third-generation Latinos. So naturally, I just come up with, like, names that I feel that they would be into, I guess. So, yeah, it's just, you know, the artwork. Let me explain a little bit. The beers that you're seeing right now are these collaborations that I'm doing with established breweries. So it's so they're not. So some of these projects are not completely my entire idea. Like, definitely everything that you've seen is something that I've pitched or I brought to the table. I'm like, hey, let's do this project. This is what I'm thinking. But together we're like, OK, how about this for a name? And hey, we know this artist who would go well and she or he understands what we're trying to convey. So so far, what you see is not just completely on my design, right. It's not like I'm picking up the name and the recipe and the beer labels all on my own at home. It's a collaboration. Yeah, it's a collaboration which  [00:32:10][131.9]
Keith: [00:32:10] happens a lot. Right. Like a lot of even really big breweries are collaborating across state lines to kind of get different hops and get different styles and get different ideas. Can you talk a little bit about the artist collaboration? I think that that's one of the things that's kind of setting yourself in an interesting way. You're working with musicians, correct, to kind of come up with your collaborations with those musicians.  [00:32:29][19.4]
Ray Ricky: [00:32:31] Yeah, this just goes back to what I know, right? Yeah, and one of my passions being music and I've been involved in music for so long, it's I don't think I'll ever get away from it. It's just something that I love to do. Music was something that, you know, it's just a way for me to be creative, whether I'm actually physically creating music or I'm working with an artist who creates music and I'm helping them to get their project off the ground or helping them to achieve their vision and execute their own goals and whatnot. So I've always thought that a beer company could be run like a record label. Oh, cool. I like that. Where you're seeking out talent, you're helping to develop whether it's the music or the image, just this whole package. So you're helping to develop it and then you're helping to get it out into the world and let everybody know about it. Right. To me, that's the same as beer. Like you have this idea. You've got to put it all together and then you've got to get it out. And the process is very similar. Right. If I had this idea for a beer, I have to figure out what the recipe is going to be like. What do I want it to taste like then figure out how to execute that and then name the beer and then get it designed and packaged and then figure out the distribution channels for that beer. It's the same with music, right? If I have an idea for a song, I've got to write the song. I've got to produce the song. Got to record it. You got to mix and master and then package it. You've got to name it. You've got to do all these things and you got to get it out and figure out how to get the word out, let people know about it. So I just see it as the same. So my approach has been that I do what I did with music, with beer.  [00:34:15][104.6]
Keith: [00:34:16] It's so cool, man. I love that idea. The connective tissue in your career. Right. So many people would look at whatever your resume or what you've done and go, wow, he's made this massively and completely changed parts. But you're kind of seeing some of the skill sets that you had in the music industry carrying over.  [00:34:31][15.5]
Ray Ricky: [00:34:32] Oh, definitely. And actually, there's a lot of crossover, and I'll tell you what I mean by that. So in twenty nineteen, a friend of mine launched his own beer brand, basically doing what I'm doing now. And I noticed he was doing this all by himself, like he was struggling to get beer out. He had bars and venues that he wanted to get into, but he didn't have the time to make the follow up calls. And he was just kind of all over the place and he needed help. So I offered to help. And I was like, look, you're a friend of mine. I think your idea is great. I'm actually I want to go this route anyway, so let me help you out. And so I asked him, like, which venues are you having trouble getting in, getting into? And he named like three places in Los Angeles. And I was like, dude, I know those owners and only know those owners because I've been booking those venues for so many years. You know, whether it be like bands that I was representing or my DJ night said I would do or even when I was booking my own live shows like so I have this whole network of people from the music industry that I can leverage for the stuff I'm doing in beer. So I easily, you know, sent a couple of texts, made a few calls, and we got the beer in there. And my friend was like, holy shit, dude, I've been trying to work those contacts for months. And I was like, I just made a comment as my friends. And so, you know, I'm like, hey, maybe I really could do this. Like, maybe there, you know, I, I know enough people learned a lot within music where a lot of those skills can transfer over. And so far they have it's amazing.  [00:36:07][94.8]
Keith: [00:36:07] In New York State, the distribution laws are pretty stringent. Right. As well as there's, I think, two major distribution companies like Manhattan Beverage. And then there's one other union beverage. Is it that way in California as well, where it's really hard to get your beer in places? Right, like getting it into a bar? A restaurant might be a little bit easier than getting it into a store, but it's also really hard. Are you seeing that that's become a little bit more democratized the last few years?  [00:36:32][24.5]
Ray Ricky: [00:36:33] Well, you know, California is still used to have the three-tier system, right? You have the producer, then you have the distributor in the middle tier and then you have the retailer in the third tier, OK? And if you're in the beer industry, you can exist in all three tiers or you have to exist in one-tier. So if you're a producer, a brewery, you have to have a distributor. You have to sell to a distributor who then turns around and sells to the retailer. The only time that those rules are kind of blurred is if you're a small beer brewery beer producer, you can self distribute, but you're still technically only existing in one of the three tiers. So, yeah, California is very strict. But in terms of getting your beer out and into the market, I would say it's probably difficult trying to sign with a beer distributor, which again, much like music when you're an independent artist. Yeah. Nobody wants to fuck with, you know, what he's going to do now? You know, it's hard to get put on, right? It's hard to sign that distribution deal. It's hard to get that record label deal. Same with beer. But if you do it independently and you self-distribute, then you can work your contacts on the local level, heading up retailers. And just like me, anybody in your network, like, you know, there's a couple of people that I know that own restaurants and I don't have to go through a distributor to get to them, you know, because they're in my network, I can just call them directly. So in that regard, I think there's a lot of easier ways to go about it to get your product where it needs to be. But again, like, if you don't know how to do that stuff, then you don't know. You just don't know. So it could be difficult. The beer industry, much like the music industry in general, is difficult. You know, like of course, like any industry, you don't know what you don't know.  [00:38:20][107.4]
Keith: [00:38:21] So what's been the most surprising thing for you since opening up?  [00:38:24][3.0]
Ray Ricky: [00:38:25] What's been the most surprising? People are really gracious in the industry and the beer industry specifically. People have been super helpful, like anybody who I've approached and I've asked questions about like, you know, how do I go about doing this or how did you do this? They're very forthcoming. They're very willing to share their information. To me, that just blows my mind. It's I've been super grateful to everybody who's been willing to share information and brewery owners and people in the industry like everybody's busy. Right. And even despite what they have on their own plate, they're always willing to take a few moments to share information. And that's one thing that I know even at the homebrew level like everybody just loves to share. Like if you're a homebrewer, you're excited about brewing beer and then sharing it, giving it all the way. And it's really cool even sharing knowledge and sharing equipment and sharing contacts. Like that's one thing about the beer industry that I find to be awesome is everybody's willing to help.  [00:39:33][68.4]
Keith: [00:39:35] What advice would you give somebody who loves beer, has never brewed and is scared, is intimidated, right? Was you or me walking into that home brew a couple of years ago? All right. What advice would you give that person?  [00:39:44][9.4]
Ray Ricky: [00:39:45] I would say it's not as scary as you're making it up to be in your mind, because I was yes, I was that person. I was like, terrified. I thought it was this hard, complex process. The actual process of making beer is relatively easy. It's like making soup. You've got a pot, throw in some water, throwing some grain or malt, throwing some hops, mix it up, boil it, cool it down, throw in some yeast and then you let it do its thing. The yeast is what actually makes the beer. You know, the brewer is there to just to create the environment where the yeast can do their job. So it's not it's not as crazy as you may think it looks. So I would say just do it. Just try it. It's pretty hard to make a bad beer, like you can make decent beer, but as long as you make something that you're willing to drink, that you enjoy it, that's that's all that matters.  [00:40:40][54.9]
Keith: [00:40:41] And it seems like it's an iterative approach. Right. It's going to be step by step. You're not going to make a world class beer the first time you go out there. Definitely.  [00:40:47][5.6]
Ray Ricky: [00:40:47] That's yeah. And the more you brew, the better you get. And I would say, like, if you're new to homebrewing, jump in and try to get to like between five and 10 batches as soon as you can, because by that ten batch you'll have it down. You'll have the process down, you won't be scared. You already know what to do and it'll be pretty seamless. And then everything beyond that is just tweaking your technique, your ingredients and what you're putting into the beer. But the actual process of getting from raw ingredients to liquids pretty easy.  [00:41:17][30.0]
Keith: [00:41:18] How do you explain to your significant other that there's going to be a lot of beer equipment in the kitchen slash bathroom?  [00:41:23][4.8]
Ray Ricky: [00:41:24] Oh, man, my wife. It was funny because I had been talking about wanting to start home, brewing this back in 2014. One day I was sitting at the computer and I was like I said to myself, you know what, I'm going to buy a home market right now. Just in this moment, I'm just going to fucking do it. And then I like, blurted out, hey, I'm going to buy a home brew kit. She was like, well, what are you talking about? OI said I'm doing it! And then I ordered it online. And then it came in the mail. And, you know, she was just like, what is that? I was like, that's a homebrew kit I ordered, OK, whatever. So I do it in the kitchen. And she was not happy with the way it smelled.  [00:41:59][34.8]
Keith: [00:42:00] Yeah, it's not a good smell.  [00:42:01][0.4]
Ray Ricky: [00:42:02] I love the way it smells. I think as you progress in your homebrewing journey, you start to enjoy the smell of grain and hops and those things. My wife is like, nah, you got to take that shit to the garage. So I had to move it out to the garage. But in terms of like the gear, you can go as small as like, again, brewing one-gallon batches like I did. So I'm using like a two-gallon stockpot. OK, so there's not like a big footprint. They're pretty small, like at that size or that volume. I could fit everything in a kitchen cupboard and it was out of the way. It was no problem. It's when you jump up to five gallons, you've got to buy a boil kettle that's minimum ten gallons and then you've got to buy bigger fermenters and then everything just gets bigger from there.  [00:42:52][49.7]
Keith: [00:42:53] Then you need more real estate. Yeah. So what, what is the next 12 months look like for you and for Norwalk?  [00:42:58][4.3]
Ray Ricky: [00:42:58] Well, let me kind of clarify where I'm at in the process and what the business is right now. So Norwalk Brewhouse is not a physical brewery yet. OK, we are what's called a contract brewed brand, if you will. So I work with established breweries. I bring my recipes, they brew the beer for me, or sometimes I can be there and, you know, kind of assist. But the established brewery will brew my recipe, package it for me so cans, kegs or what have you. But it's my beer, it's my name, it's my brand. And then I take ownership of that beer and then I self distribute. So that's the model that I'm working in. So technically I'm a beer wholesaler, OK, and in order to be a beer wholesaler, you have to apply for two permits. One is at the federal level. So I have to get permission from the federal government, which I already have that permission. They said, cool, you can operate, go do your thing and I have to get permission from state government. So right now I'm waiting for my license from the California Alcoholic Beverage Control, and that's my wholesale license at the state level. So I've already leased out warehouse space. I've been paying rent and I'm just waiting for the California state to be like, you're all good to go. You can now distribute your own beer. So all the stuff that I'm doing right now, all the collaborations, those beers technically belong to the brewery that I'm working with because they brew it, they package. They're the ones that are fully licensed. So they're paying the taxes and they're using their distributors to distribute the beer. So that's what's happening right now. So that's what you're seeing out in the market.  [00:44:37][98.5]
Keith: [00:44:37] There's a lot of beer companies that have done that before, right. So. Oh, yeah. Here on the east coast Two Roads has done that,  Lawson has a partnership like that Peak is another brand in Maine that was working out of another brewery, so it's kind of a common practice, right, that a lot of the upcoming craft brews are working with other big, more established brands that have the actual space real estate.  [00:44:56][19.2]
Ray Ricky: [00:44:57] Now, it's yeah, it's definitely common practice. At one point in history, if you were a contract brewer, people would turn their nose up at you. You were not legit. It was like you don't brew in your own facility. What is going on? You're a fraud. But, you know, now, like contract brewers, if you're genuine about your brand, like, for example, I'm a homebrewer, I actually brew beer. I know the process. Like, I'm not some, like, faceless corporate entity that's just trying to bring a product to market because I see there's an opportunity there. You know, I'm not like, okay, I can make this like beer marketed to all these Latinos and I'll make millions of dollars, you know, like that kind of approach is not going to fly with the craft beer consumer. Right. But now with the option of contract brewing, many people like me who like may not have a lot of capital startup capital, may not have a lot of resources. This is our way into the market. This is our foot in the door. Definitely going this route has been the most feasible for somebody like me. If I were to start off by trying to build that glorious brewpub that I dreamed of early on, I'm looking at a minimum of like five hundred thousand to a million dollars in upstart capital. I just don't have access to that kind of funding. So instead, what I opted for was last year when the pandemic shut down, I decided, you know what? Here's my opportunity to really go for it. I'm going to go all in and I'm going to figure it out. So what I did first was I sold off all my deejay gear that I have. So it's like a few thousand dollars worth of gear because prior to the pandemic, I was doing my little side hustle where I would deejay private events, weddings and birthdays and things like that. And it's really good money if you have consistent work. But with the pandemic, all that was gone. Right? So I said, OK, this is probably a good opportunity for me to just go all in. I'm stuck at home anyway. I don't have any gigs lined up. I don't know when that's going to come back. Let's just go. So I started selling off whatever I had turntables, speakers, microphones, mixing boards. I ended up with a few grand and I funnel that into Norwalk Brewhouse. So that has allowed me to produce some merch, which also allowed me to generate some revenue that allowed me to file for all the licenses and things like that. And so it's allowed me to get off the ground. Yeah. And so here I go. So, yeah, contract brewing has been my way in and it's and it's that way for a lot of other people as well. Most famously, the Boston beer company. Jim Cook. Right. Who's now a billionaire, started off in 1984/1985 as a contract brewer. It was him and his partner. And now look at them, you know. Yeah. And it's interesting, I was actually thinking about this yesterday because I was thinking like, wow, man. Jim Cook did this in the mid-80s when nobody was really contract brewing. It was like this. Like nobody even knew what that was. There wasn't even a real craft beer movement in the mid-80s like there was, you know, wasn't there wasn't a lot going on. It was still being dominated by macro companies. And so he probably had it really, really hard trying to come to market as a contract brewer because for one, people didn't know what that was and he's coming to market with this lager. And people were like, what the hell is that like? You know, and anyway, when  [00:48:24][207.2]
Keith: [00:48:24] people didn't even know that taste. Right, like, yeah, Sam Adams is a lager  [00:48:28][4.1]
Ray Ricky: [00:48:29] and I like Sam Adams.  [00:48:30][0.9]
Keith: [00:48:30] And to put that up, you know, he's walking into these bars and restaurants that have Bud Light, Miller Light, Coors Light, Mr. Brown. Right. Yeah. So even that, too, like, I think we're on his shoulders a little bit for. Oh yeah. There's so many different flavors. So many people go to a bar, there's at least 15, 20 different taps. No matter how much that bar cares about beer, they're going to have a lot of different choices for people. So I love that. I completely forgot that he was a contract brewer as well.  [00:48:55][25.1]
Ray Ricky: [00:48:56] Yeah. So, you know, I'm thinking about that story and I'm thinking about today and what the market looks like today. And it's like, OK, contract brewing is still a great way to get in. Get off the ground. But does that make it easier, does it make it more difficult because now there's thousands of craft beer brands out there like everybody knows what's up now? Like right. Like it's not this new taboo thing. Like everybody knows craft beer is a thing and it's been a thing for a while. So I was like that part of it probably makes it more difficult because you have to fight to create your space in the market. You have to fight to bring eyeballs or attention to what you're doing. But then again, it's just like music, right?  [00:49:40][44.1]
Keith: [00:49:41] Absolutely. It always comes back to that for you, doesn't it? It does. It does. All right. So I just turned 40 last week. And it's funny, you know, one of the reasons why I left the corporate world was advertising a young person's game. And I got told that a lot like as you get older, it gets nastier. And I just wonder if you kind of felt that same way in the music world or right now jumping into something completely new.  [00:50:03][21.6]
Ray Ricky: [00:50:04] Definitely. I turned 40 last December, turning 40. You know, I'm married. I've got three kids last week and we just moved our oldest daughter into her college dorm. Oh, wow.  [00:50:14][10.7]
Keith: [00:50:15] Congrats.  [00:50:15][0.0]
Ray Ricky: [00:50:16] Thank you. And personally, now, I feel like I've lived enough life to know just a little bit about what's going on, about what I really want to do, about the things that make me happy, the things that I want to pursue. You know, when I was in music, I started a really young age 17. I did that until my late 30s. And there was a point where I felt like I was running out of time. I felt like, you know, I have to land that record label. I have to, you know, be at a certain level. Then what I was and mind you, mostly the stuff that I mostly did was independently and for the average person, I think I witnessed a great deal of success. You know, not to toot my own horn, but I was able to tour around the world. So I got to travel. You know, I'm a poor kid from the hood, so if it wasn't for music, I would have had the opportunity to afford to travel. So I've seen the United States, I've been to Europe, I've been to Cuba all because of music. And I've been able to do these things. But the all that there was a point where there was this pressure to like sign to a major record label deal, get your video on MTV or what have you, you know, make the cover of Billboard, make the billboard charts and things like that. And then as I started to take meetings with actual people that could probably help make that come true, it was all about how old I was and what I look like, and what my image was. And I started to feel like I'm running out of time. And once that idea crept into my mind, I started to make bad decisions. I started to feel like I was being rushed. I remember talking to a label manager, I won't say the label, but a friend of mine, we became friends later, a label manager. And having this conversation and feeling desperate like you have to take this meeting, you have to convince your boss that I'm a good artist to sign and we got to do this deal, etc., etc. But it was all based on the idea that I was running out of time and I was getting older. And I don't it's just not true. Like, if you think about like people like Bill Withers at age 32 is when he signed his record deal, 32. Like, you know, if you look at sports like any professional sports, like 32, you're ancient, you're an old man, you know, especially like football, like if you're a 32 year old football player, like past your prime. But like in the real world, you're super young.  [00:52:48][151.7]
Keith: [00:52:49] Yeah. So when you left the music world, did you know that brewing was going to be what you wanted to do next? Or did you just say, I need to leave the music world for a little bit? And I know you're still doing a little deejaying, but kind of leaving more of that corporate world or the corporate side, really?  [00:53:02][13.2]
Ray Ricky: [00:53:03] I just kind of switched my focus. So in 2010, I got married. We started our family. And it was that time I was in the studio working on a record. I was putting all my money into this album. It was my follow-up to my solo record and that was my plan. I was going to do this record was going to be all live instrumentation. So working with a really great producer, John Avalon, who was famously known for being the bass player in Oingo Boingo, you go into a studio, there's gold records on the wall, and he just has really great talent. Anyway, that was the plan, right? I'm going to take all my money, put it into this record. I'm going to do this record. I'm going to put it out. It's going to blow up and I'm going to be a rock star. Through that process of figuring out really what I want at that moment, you know, that that moment in my life where, like, I just got married having a new baby, were moving into a new home, like building that part of my life out. Things didn't feel as important like pursuing this record, this music career. In that way, we're like constantly screaming for attention. Look at me, look at me, play my song, book me to play live like that. Didn't feel exciting anymore. But I still love music. I still love being creative. So what I did was I kind of shelve that idea of producing my own record and I started managing bands. And through that I learned that I really enjoyed helping. Other people get to where they wanted to go. So what I found was really fun, was working with a really young band who had never toured, never got paid for a show, and then showing them how to book a tour, showing them how to land a gig that would pay. I had this memory of working with a singer who moved out to L.A. from New Mexico and was just struggling to get paid or just to get gigs in general. But she was really talented. And so I started booking her again using my previous network of contacts from doing it for so long. And I remember booking her a gig that paid her 2000 bucks to play like 45 minutes. And when I told her, hey, I got you a gig, it pays 2000 bucks. First she didn't believe it. Then she was like, realized I was serious. She was so happy. Like she felt like she was validated. Like I'm finally finally somebody respects my art. I'm actually in business generating money for something that I love. And just that feeling of hearing somebody that excited, feeling fulfilled by it, just it felt good. So I wanted to do more of that. And as I transitioned into beer, it wasn't a matter of me like saying I'm going to leave music behind. I'm not going to do this anymore. It was just kind of like, how do I still bring a little bit of that over to the beer side? How do I marry music with beer? And so now what you're seeing is those collaborations where I'm working with artists. And I found a way like if you throw a QR code on a can, you can introduce people to artists to music via that QR code. You know, there's ways to help promote music with the craft beer. So I'm just trying to refine that. I'm trying to do that more.  [00:56:12][189.1]
Keith: [00:56:13] I talked to Carlos from Mestizo a little bit about the come up of the QR code. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's up with this? It's funny. The QR code was something like five years ago. It's. Oh, yeah. Now I don't need that. You know, you'd walk by, I'd be like, don't tell me what I should look at Billboard. It's actually pretty darn effective, especially in the music world and especially in the restaurant world right now. Are you seeing it as a way to introduce new bands and new things is being affected?  [00:56:39][26.1]
Ray Ricky: [00:56:40] Definitely. And, you know, I learned something new the other day. Apparently, if you have a album out, whether, you know, album or even a single and you attach to that project to a QR code on a product and it sells, that counts as a sale of your music. So. Right. So so before you have to like distribute physical product, write physical albums, CDs or vinyl or cassettes, what have you. And then once somebody purchased that in the store and they scan the barcode and that's one unit sold. And now we're in the digital age. Right. We're like streams and views and all these other like ringtones and what have you. I don't even know if ringtones are still a thing, but all the digital components are the digital assets. I don't even know which them. But the digital part of this counts as sales now. Right. Streams and viewers in place. So now I didn't know that a QR code could actually count as a unit sold. So now I'm thinking, OK, how can I use the QR code on a can of beer to increase the sales of an artist that I'm interested in working with? So now I'm trying to learn more about how it actually works. But yeah, that's something I just heard the other day, literally the other day. So I think what's cool about the QR code is we live in a world right now where most people don't want to have to go out of their way to do things. So if you're buying up a beer that you like and as you drink, as you're drinking this beer, you already have your phone in your hand because you Instagram the beer that you're drinking, you know, it's so easy to just scan the code while you're in that moment and then you can have access to this other content. So I think it's just a matter of convenience. It's super convenient. It's easy to do. People already have their phone glued to their hands all day long. So it's just a matter of moving your hand over to this QR code and it scans by itself. And then you have access to this unique exclusive content. I think it's genius, even though that the technology's old.  [00:58:41][120.8]
Keith: [00:58:42] Yeah, it's funny how these things kind of do take these life cycles. It takes 10 or 15 years sometimes for technology to catch on in this way.  [00:58:48][6.2]
Ray Ricky: [00:58:48] You said you just turned 40. Yeah. What has that been like for you? I'm interested to know your perspective on it. Like, do you do you feel like you're old? Do you feel like you're past your prime?  [00:58:58][9.7]
Keith: [00:58:59] I mean old. Yes, right. For sure. But that was even before I turned 40 last week. So I just turned 40. Yeah. You know, like I think the biggest things that I've noticed are on the physical side. You know, I can't run as far as I used to or as fast as I used to. I can't lift as much as I could. I can't recover as fast as I could. But, you know, mentally, I'm much better than I've ever been. Right. Because very similar to you grew up in Section eight housing single mother, you know, barely scraped by, so my mentality for all of my professional career was go, go, go, go get the next promotion and get the next raise, you know, work harder than everybody else. Get in before anybody else. Leave after everybody else. Yeah, I was in sales and what was good about sales was, you know, numbers don't lie. Right. Your goal is five million. If you do seven and a half million, everyone's going to love you. And so I was just obsessed with that stuff, which wasn't healthy, you know, to just only be thinking in the like, job title and promotion and raise world. And now what I like about being 40 is being comfortable in my own skin and knowing that it's not about how much money I'm making or the job title. It really for me it's about how much time do I get to spend with my family. Yeah, kid, you know you know, I live I live out of the city now and going on hikes, going on runs. That's the stuff that I live for, right where I used to live for. I think the corporate world's recognition of my hard work and my success. And now I look forward to the time with my family and taking that time off. So I think that's the biggest thing for me. My wife and I watched this is 40 a couple of days ago, which I don't know if you remember that movie, it came out like 10, 15 years ago.  [01:00:40][101.6]
Ray Ricky: [01:00:41] I do remember. Yes.  [01:00:42][1.0]
Keith: [01:00:42] Yeah. And so she turned 40 this year as well. Sorry that I say that out loud, but but we just watched it just as well. And, you know, a lot of that stuff is true, right. Like like, you know, our bond is stronger than it's ever been before, especially after covid or during that we're still in covid. But I hate I hate saying after covid, when we're still in jail, you just realize so much of that other stuff doesn't matter. And what really does matter is, is the day to day with the family. And once you can get comfortable with that, you know, New York is is a different beast. I know way too many people who are in their forties and fifties who are making millions of dollars a year and are just so unhappy. Yeah. That's so frustrated. Are so, you know, they don't want to see their family. They don't want to go on vacation. They hide in their office. And I just knew I didn't want to be that. I won't name names, but I know somebody in their 60s who has more money than I can ever imagine. And he never sees his kids. He's still working. And and that just blows my mind. I'm like, I would have quit twenty years ago if I were you. I would have retired and lived on a beach somewhere twenty years ago. What are you doing? That's just kind of the difference, I think. Yeah, that that's the thing that I've been enjoying about being middle-aged.  [01:01:56][73.5]
Ray Ricky: [01:01:57] That's the stuff that really scares me. And I'm almost like, you know, when I was younger and pursuing music, I was definitely sold on the dream. Right. Like blow up, "Make it" be a rock star, make a lot of money. Like I thought like that was the key to happiness and that was what was going to make my life great. And so I'm kind of happy that that didn't happen, given my background and where I grew up. Not a lot of money grew up in housing projects. Had I saw a lot of success and made a lot of money at an early age, I think it just messed me up. And I don't think I would have been happy regardless, because much like you, you know, now I realize that the important things are family, those moments of being together for me, making sure my kids know that I love them and know that I'm there like every single day, like my kids, like we're blessed and so lucky that my two youngest kids, like since they've been born, we have a ten-year-old and a seven-year-old. Since those two have been born, there's not been one day that they haven't seen me. Like when I grew up, you know, my parents weren't married. My parents had me when they were 17 and 18. So I have no recollection of my parents even being together. I was mostly raised by my grandparents. So I always told myself, like when it comes my turn to have my own family, like, I'm going to be there, like it's important to be there. So back to the music and that whole pursuit, like, had I actually went on to become this big known artist, I would have been living on the road touring all the time. Luckily, I experienced that for a good amount of time when I didn't have a family, because now I know like I wouldn't be happy if that were the case for me, you know, not seeing my wife, not seeing my kids. So now as I move into this new career where I'm building this beer brand, I found something that I can pursue that still allows me to not have to be away from my family. I can still work it where, you know, I don't have to be on tour somewhere or whatever.  [01:03:58][121.7]
Keith: [01:03:59] Yeah, I love that. And it's funny, I think back to especially early in my career at a massive company that's Microsoft. One hundred thousand people. And I'm like twenty five years old. And I see a couple of people, men, and women, right in their late thirties, and they're leaving the office of like four forty five, five o'clock to catch a train to get back to their home in the suburbs. Right. And finally, this one guy, I give him a little crap. I'm like, you're leaving so early I stay till seven, seven thirty. I took it as a point of pride. He looked at me and he's like, you'll see man, like once you start having kids, you're going to get your job done a lot faster. And he was like, it's going to be the difference for you. And I remember that I was 15 years ago, like, I remember him being like, it's going to be the major difference in your life when you have kids, you race home to see them or you avoid your family. And I hope for you it's going to be that you want to race home to them. And he was like, and that's why I get my job done by four o'clock every single day because I want I'm doing this job for them. And that stuck with me. I love that. And I was like, OK, cool, now I get it. I won't make fun of you for leaving the office at 4:48 to catch the 5:02 home  [01:05:00][60.8]
Ray Ricky: [01:05:01] I just recently read. Stillness is the key. I believe it's called, by Ryan Holiday.  [01:05:04][3.4]
Keith: [01:05:06] OK, not familiar.  [01:05:06][0.5]
Ray Ricky: [01:05:07] He's a writer. A lot of what he does is based on stoicism and he's got a book called Stillness is a Key. The obstacle is the way, and ego is the enemy. But Stillness is the Key is all about breaking down like what's important to you. And so many of us are not necessarily living in the moment, like we don't for sure, you know, like those that the time with your kids, like, that's so precious and so important. But if you're not in the moment, you don't realize that until the moment is gone, until you're locked up in your office, you know, working those long days and that you realize like I'm missing the parts that are important of life, you know, missing. And then it comes down to like you knowing what is enough for you. Like, do you need to put in that extra overtime so you make that extra money to do what? To buy more things, which only in turns takes more time away from your family. You know, but that book, Stillness is the Key is a really good read for anybody who may be thinking about the things that we're talking here. You know,  [01:06:11][64.6]
Keith: [01:06:12] I'll check that up. And that's really good. I appreciate that. All right. Well, I'll wrap this up. I think this might be the bonus "This is forty" section of it.  [01:06:19][6.8]
Ray Ricky: [01:06:19] I guess cool,  Forty is good, though. If you're listening and you're about to be forty or you're not far from forty. Forty is good. It's not scary.  [01:06:27][7.7]
Keith: [01:06:27] Yeah, I always have said thirty two felt the most adult. Like when I was thirty-two I was like OK, I'm an adult now. I have multiple suits, I have responsibilities. Forty just feels like OK cool, I get it, I get what's going on a little bit. Right. And I started, I see the value of a lot of different things here and I get to make these choices on what's valuable to me. This has been so much fun I could nerd out with you for like a couple more hours easily. I'm excited about what you're doing. You know, best of luck with everything. Congratulations on the early success for believing in yourself, too, man. It's important that you took that risk and sold off that equipment with that money right back. So that's what's up. That's really cool. And did that everybody that Ray Ricky Rivera found of Norwalk Brewhouse, thank you so much.  [01:07:08][41.2]
Ray Ricky: [01:07:09] I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you.  [01:07:12][2.7]
Keith: [01:07:17] Thank you for listening to the change it produced by Elena Wiedlin with original music by Rodney Has. If you liked what you heard, we'd appreciate your support. I like sharing, leaving a comment and subscribing wherever you listen. Thanks once again until next time.  [01:07:17][0.0]
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