The Baby-sitters Club: Claudia, Part 2

It's a special 4th of July episode! What's more American than relying on child labor to fix a failing healthcare system? That sounds grim, but we continue to enjoy our time with the girls of BSC. We return to our discussion of Claudia with a leisurely tour of what is possibly the saddest book in the Baby-sitters Club canon, Claudia and the Sad Goodbye. We stray a bit from the beaten path in this episode as we discuss neighborhood grandmas, a Funfetti catastrophe, Darlene crying at work, and whether the real cause of Mimi's surprising responses to blood transfusions might be caused by a vampire in Stoneybrook. 

These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit our blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.

Transcript

Hawa 0:17

Hi, I am Hawa.

Hannah 0:18

I'm Hannah.

Darlene 0:19

I'm Darlene.

Heather 0:20

And I'm Heather.

Hawa 0:20

And this is our podcast, These Books Made Me. Today we're going to be picking up our discussion of the Baby-sitters Club series.

Clip 0:26

You can make fun of me for basing it all on the Baby - sitters Club.

Hawa 0:29

Last time we covered the first two Kristy novels. This time we'll be focusing on Claudia and delving into Claudia and the Phantom Phone calls, Claudia and Mean Janine, and Claudia. And the Sad Goodbye. Friendly warning. As always, this podcast contains spoilers. If you don't yet know who deposited red jello into Trevor Sandberg's lap, please proceed with caution. We have a extra super special returning guest with us today. <laugh> , can you introduce yourself?

Speaker 4 0:57

Hi everyone. I'm Kelsey and I'm back.

Speaker 1 1:00

I'm so excited. <laugh> . And now the conclusion.

Speaker 2 1:07

Okay. So book number three, Claudia and the sag. Goodbye. We promise spoilers, but this one's a doozy. Mimi dies. Mimi dies. Y'all.

Speaker 1 1:20

No , God, no. God, please. No, no, no.

Speaker 2 1:27

RIP, Mimi R , tax , old Yeller, and all of the other characters whose deaths totally traumatized me as a child. So in this one, everything is as usual. Babysitter's Club gonna babysit. Claudia's gonna sneak junk food and underachieve at school. Janine's gonna genius, but Mimi, Mimi is declining and it's starting to wear on. Claudia. Mimi has a series of fainting episodes requiring blood transfusions. I've

Speaker 1 1:50

Fallen and I can't get

Speaker 2 1:52

Up, but the doctors can't really figure out what is wrong with her. Caring for Mimi is getting more challenging as she's showing more signs of dementia and it's starting to interfere with Claudia's baby art school plans. Mimi has another fainting episode during art classes. Claudia's teaching in the basement and is rushed to the hospital, but dies after seeming to stabilize. Claudia struggles with guilt and anger and feeling abandoned, but pushes through and acts like everything is fine. When Janine finally enters Mimi's room to start sorting through her things, Claudia flips out and they have a huge fight. Claudia reveals her anger and guilt to her family and they all talk things out and sort through Mimi's belongings together.

Speaker 4 2:30

The other totally random thing that stuck out to me is that I noticed it started in , in the first book we read, but definitely in this one that there's only three styles of clothing. There's New York.

Speaker 1 2:40

You

Speaker 5 2:40

Took it by force from me in New York City. Yes. And it looked better on me. In New York

Speaker 1 2:47

City.

Speaker 4 2:48

There's California

Speaker 1 2:49

<laugh> , the Californians,

Speaker 4 2:54

Or there's , um, casual, which is bad. Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 2:57

<laugh> . And they kept referring to school clothes, which seems to just be like jeans and a t-shirt.

Speaker 2 3:03

Claudia is a New York wannabe New York.

Speaker 1 3:05

Okay , gotcha . She can't imagine

Speaker 2 3:06

Aspirational , imagine anyone in New York would ever dress boring <laugh>. It's just such a weird take. But can we talk a little bit about Mimi's stroke and how that's depicted and then the caregiving, because Oh my goodness, they're putting a lot on Claudia as and then poor .

Speaker 3 3:26

Oh my

Speaker 4 3:26

God. Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:27

Oh yeah . They just threw Maryanne under the bus. They're like, Maryanne , can you come watch Mimi?

Speaker 3 3:33

Sure . Watch that . Maryanne just take the babysitting gig.

Speaker 2 3:35

And it's like, Maryanne is not watching Mimi. They like bring her in and they're like, Maryanne , can you do occupational therapy with Mimi? Then

Speaker 3 3:44

Mimi gets cars is all mad at her . These

Speaker 6 3:46

12 year olds responsible for caring for everyone in this town all the time.

Speaker 3 3:49

I know. And she takes it so seriously and like, I guess Claudia looks at it like, well, you know, she might have taken it a little too seriously 'cause I know she does wanna be a teacher. I'm a doctor, not a coal miner.

Speaker 2 3:59

<laugh> . Yeah . Well, and she just, she keeps drilling Mimi on the flashcards and Mimi like really flips out at her. Mm-Hmm . And just can't anymore. Which I thought was realistic, but why did they put that poor girl in that situation to begin with? That was terrible.

Speaker 7 4:13

Love her though. Right?

Speaker 3 4:14

You danger girl.

Speaker 7 4:16

Because I think before then she already was really testy with Claudia. Yeah . And if she was willing to be testy with Claudia, then she can blow up at anyone.

Speaker 3 4:25

Yeah. But they did say that. It wasn't to that degree, I think. Yeah . They said it wasn't to that degree, but I'm just like , like But

Speaker 7 4:31

You would still put that on Maryanne . Yeah .

Speaker 2 4:33

You would still need to tell her. Yeah . Also,

Speaker 3 4:34

She hadn't been at the hospital for long. Like it seemed like it hadn't been maybe like a week or two. And I'm just like, she needs kind of pushing it. She needs

Speaker 6 4:40

To be going to a healthcare professional.

Speaker 3 4:42

Dr. Carter here is gonna take care of you.

Speaker 2 4:44

Well, and it sounds like she is, 'cause they said two to five every afternoon she's doing like intensive outpatient therapy. I don't think that their method of we're just gonna drill her eight hours a day on handwriting vocabulary. And then I kept getting so frustrated because she'd give a word in Japanese that was correct. She's giving the right word for the thing. And then they're like, no, say it in English. Yeah .

Speaker 3 5:10

Mind you , Japanese language , she's getting it right. Give her some grace .

Speaker 6 5:14

So to therapy in the afternoon, like daily therapy. I feel like, I mean, maybe there's some exercise that happened at home, but she doesn't need to. It seems like she doesn't

Speaker 3 5:23

Need to be . Probably

Speaker 6 5:25

She needs to rest.

Speaker 4 5:26

Yeah. And Maryanne even says like, too, she's like, oh, she didn't really seem like she wanted to keep going, but like , I don't blame her . Then I remember Claudia said that time is slipping away.

Speaker 3 5:39

Oh my God .

Speaker 4 5:39

Every moment is a lost opportunity. Yeah . I feel like Claudia is feeling the pressure from her parents and she's scared and and they don't, they're scared and they don't know what to do. She's scared and doesn't know what to do. She's turning that into teaching because that's all they know, like they can do. And putting way too much pressure on themselves to like help her get back as soon as possible.

Speaker 6 5:59

Yeah. Therapy is not sustainable if you are like wearing out the person doing it to the point where they just can't, it's not gonna help them . Also ,

Speaker 3 6:07

Grandma's probably like, these are children, like what do they know? Right ?

Speaker 6 6:11

<laugh> ? Yeah. She's like trying to be patient. She's prob she's, she's dealing with a major loss, like in like mobility Yeah . And function. And she's trying all and her, her patients , um, with Yeah. With these kids. And uh, they're , you know, they have the best of intentions, but I, I can totally understand why she'd be incredibly frustrated.

Speaker 7 6:30

Yeah . I feel like the author did a really good job with that. 'cause it, I feel like it established Mimi's character. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> or she established Mimi's character really well. So that when she has a stroke and obviously like she blows up at Maryanne , like it makes sense. It's because she was so independent before she had so many different hobbies. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . Um, she herself was the , uh, caretaker of the family. And to see the roles like reversed , like obviously there was gonna be some like resentment in that or like, yeah . Yeah . There's like bitter feelings toward it . Mm-Hmm . And I feel like that was portrayed really

Speaker 2 7:03

Well. Well, and I think that's sophisticated writing because we were talking about Janine and Claudia are being put in boxes. So is Mimi. Yeah . Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And it's, it's that same, all three of them are going through the same thing where it's like, I have a role that I need to play. What happens if I don't want to or can't play that role anymore? And yeah. I did think it was really funny <laugh> when Claudia was picking up the cooking for the family and stuff , um, during one of the meals they said she made, I think it was like frozen carrots, but she remarked she was gonna cook them. None of

Speaker 8 7:37

You're working as a team. Where's the lamb

Speaker 2 7:41

Sauce? And then baked chicken and a lettuce salad. And I thought it was so funny that she specified it was a lettuce salad.

Speaker 6 7:48

I mean, you could have,

Speaker 7 7:49

I feel

Speaker 2 7:49

Like, versus like tuna salad I guess.

Speaker 7 7:51

<laugh> . Yeah. Does everyone's books read that way? Because again, I can't remember them that well, but it was like Claudia does a lot of extra explaining. Like, there's so many parentheses that are like, you know, like, like I'm gonna cook them kind . That's

Speaker 6 8:06

That . An d ADHD thing. <laugh> .

Speaker 7 8:07

Well , I wasn't sure if that was Claudia's personality. No , it's , or that was the,

Speaker 2 8:11

That's more Claudia I think. Okay . Because I think her, the way that she's written is a little more stream of consciousness than Christie has written when we read her books. So I think that's part of the like parentheticals, she's constantly giving us sides just

Speaker 7 8:26

In case You don't know what I'm saying. Yeah .

Speaker 2 8:28

And by the way, I mean this. Yeah .

Speaker 7 8:29

Or <laugh> . And I wonder how much of that is 'cause she's often misunderstood or maybe, I don't know. Well,

Speaker 2 8:34

I thought, I, I don't think it says in here 'cause I think it does specify that Claudia is dyslexic, but I think there's a very strong like a DHD component with Claudia.

Speaker 6 8:46

I think that's doubling a d adhd .

Speaker 2 8:47

She is frequently talking about getting sidetracked by things or getting distracted by things or not keeping on top of things. And so I think the writing style is kind of reflective of that as well. She has a little bit of that. Like, Ooh , a squirrel. You know,

Speaker 6 9:01

<laugh> , I think a lot of people with a d ADHD will literally use tons of parentheses when they write and Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . They're just, there's parenthetical explanations to explanations if you just, you know, add on and

Speaker 4 9:11

Add . Yeah . I never fin as someone with a d adhd . I've never once finished the story. I started out telling

Speaker 2 9:16

<laugh> . Yeah . With

Speaker 6 9:18

Adhd . I'm addicted to parentheses. I want to put parentheses inside

Speaker 4 9:21

Parentheses .

Speaker 2 9:21

I

Speaker 7 9:21

Was gonna say something about the way that Claudia like speaks, or the way that her books are written kind of reminds me of podcasts. Yeah. <laugh> kind of like, there's like, you bring something up and you're like, wait, wait, let me give context because I just realized I never actually did that because it's like, you know, you're

Speaker 4 9:36

Just saying what you thought here. Yeah . Yeah . First thought. Yeah . Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 9:41

All the more reason why we should have Claudia on our podcast.

Speaker 2 9:43

Totally

Speaker 4 9:44

<laugh> . She's a natural podcast. Special gift . Yeah .

Speaker 7 9:47

Find Dr . Claudia Warner.

Speaker 2 9:48

She would be very interesting on a podcast. 'cause again, no filter. So y'all know what she would say. She would say she hated somebody. I'm sure <laugh> I babysitting. Ah , yeah. I forgot that Stacey had left so early in the books . Diabetes too . Yeah, it happens

Speaker 4 10:04

Really

Speaker 2 10:05

Fast. Oh , Stacey was only around for a hot second. Now she's gone again. My best friend was

Speaker 3 10:08

Here. And it's so funny, it's interesting to see them do that in a book because it's just like, well, you know, in the show you get it 'cause like maybe the actor or actress can't, you know, come back for whatever reason. But like in the book it's just like, come on .

Speaker 2 10:19

I got tired of writing Stacy goodbye <laugh> .

Speaker 3 10:21

She was like, this diabetes bit was more than I wanted to commit to

Speaker 2 10:25

Diabetes . I've run out of things to say about Stacy now that we've established that she's diabetic and from New York diabetes.

Speaker 4 10:31

I really didn't like Stacy <laugh> .

Speaker 2 10:32

Stacy was my least favorite too . She,

Speaker 4 10:34

When she said the other thing too, I didn't mention this, but like when she is watching the kid that she shows MTV to , she's like, you know, I really don't like that kid very much. 'cause she's really shy and it makes me feel like I have to take care of her. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 10:45

What is it ? <laugh> ?

Speaker 3 10:47

Why does that sound like something

Speaker 2 10:48

I would say <laugh> and I feel like doesn't, isn't Stacy also the one that calls a kid a brat with a capital B brat?

Speaker 3 10:56

Yes. When you say capital, it's funny.

Speaker 4 10:58

Oh , that kid is a brat.

Speaker 2 11:00

Yes. But still <laugh> .

Speaker 3 11:02

I was reading the page so fast that when I saw the capital BI was just like, huh, <laugh> . And then I was like, oh, brat

Speaker 2 11:10

<laugh> .

Speaker 7 11:13

I just wanna say that I read this during call center and it's like a glass door and I was just like crying. And I was like, hold on <laugh> . Lemme like

Speaker 2 11:21

Answer the next call.

Speaker 7 11:23

Prince George's County Memorial Library system .

Speaker 2 11:26

<laugh> ,

Speaker 7 11:26

Darlene speaking.

Speaker 2 11:29

They're

Speaker 9 11:29

There now. And my eyes get weak in the , in the dim

Speaker 7 11:33

Light. Yeah. No, it was really sad and I knew it because , um, you had already mentioned it in the, like, these are the three books we should read, you know, and um, and you're like, that the third one we should do. 'cause that's when me passes away and I was like, oh no. And I feel like it did a really nice buildup of the relationship that when it happens, like it really does hit you really hard. Um, especially like, I have like , my grandmother's like 97 , um, so she's really up there and I feel like they share a lot of like traits. Well, she's not really like a caretaker, but I don't know. I just, there is a point in time where like it switches and like, you know, like you take , have to take care of them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and they're like really fragile. And so a lot of that like rings really true. And so, yeah, like once it finally happens, I was just like, I couldn't contain it. And every time, like they would bring her up afterward, like even like the anger and like abandonment and all of that. I was like, yeah, that's, so that really rings true. And it's a really realistic portrayal of like how , um, just how complicated your feelings towards grief can be.

Speaker 2 12:47

Yeah. I also, you know, Mimi reminded me of my grandmother too. And so yeah, it was hard when I read it as a kid and it was hard when I read it again. Um, because you do get like really attached to her and she is such a like, loving, kind presence in the book. And not just for Claudia, for like all of the neighborhood, like the , all the kids love her and, you know, I think that's pretty accurate as well. Like there were certainly, you know , my grandparents were several hours from us, so I didn't see them like every day . But, you know, I remember one of my best friends, her, her grandmother was like just very present. Mm-Hmm . And not just in her life. Like sometimes her grandmother would come pick us both up and take us to a show. Or sometimes her grandmother would come to school and bring like brownies and stuff. And so you do have those, I don't know, elders that are sort of this just like very stable presence in a , a neighborhood sometimes. And I thought that was drawn really, really well. I thought that Claudia's feelings about Mimi's decline were really well captured too. Because you do feel angry and it's not even necessarily that you're angry at the person. You get frustrated, but then you get angry at yourself that you're frustrated because you know it's not something they can control. Then you're angry at the world because why do they have to deal with this thing they can't control? And I just want my grandmother back and you know, I, I think she did a really good job of capturing all of the complex emotions that go into caregiving and grieving and Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , I , it's really well written for a serial .

Speaker 7 14:27

Yeah. And for a second I was like, why are you set , I did think that for a second. And then when she said like, she seemed to be getting better, but it feels like she just quit and gave up. Yeah. I was like, oh that makes, that makes so much sense. Like I can see the anger.

Speaker 4 14:41

Yeah. I mean that's literally like, I mean, I know we both said, but just what happened with my grandmother, she was that person in the neighborhood. I basically lived with her every day after school because my , she watched me and my parents were at work. So like, that was my house. All of the kids in the neighborhood would come to her house. We'd go to their house. Like, it was basically like a mini Stony brook. And , um, she got sick really abruptly, got better, got sick again. They moved her into a nursing home 'cause she looked like she was doing better. Then the next day she went into ho hospice care and passed away. And I think like the, the way that , um, it's set up where it's like there's the mystery of why she's sick and then they, they figure out something that works and then it kind of works and it doesn't like that really like, jerks you along 'cause you just like, don't know where things are gonna turn next. And every time you think it's getting better. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> it's turning back the other way and so much is confusing. And , um, and yeah. And it was just so relatable to feel like Yeah. You think she just, it's like she just gave up. You know, and, and kind of learning that like people kind of know when it's time that that's such like a mature , um, lesson to learn in this like children's book. Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:52

Yeah. And that she labeled some of the things Yeah . Her belongings with initials of who she wanted it to go to. Just to loop that back into that idea of she knew she didn't have a lot of time left. She had , and she was doing her best in the capacity. She had to try to make arrangements for that and say her goodbyes.

Speaker 4 16:11

Yeah.

Speaker 7 16:12

This is kind of an aside, but speaking about like grandma, like in neighborhoods , um, just reminds me that one time 'cause my grandma sometimes like stays with us. And one time we just didn't know where she was <laugh> because she goes outside to like take her little walks and we're just like frantically trying to find her. And whole time she was at the neighbor's house. 'cause the neighbor's kids were just like, we're just gonna adopt her <laugh> and like take her , take her into our house. Like, and my grandma just went with it and we were just like panicking. And then she was just like sitting in her <laugh> . We

Speaker 2 16:45

Just

Speaker 4 16:45

Found another family.

Speaker 3 16:46

<laugh> .

Speaker 7 16:47

Yeah.

Speaker 4 16:48

Yeah. I, yeah. And I think too , like the, you know, we talked about this maybe more with the last book, but like the losing your mobility and your sense of independence. Like, my grandfather had dementia and so I felt that more with him than with my grandmother 'cause it was very sudden. But yeah, it's just like the whole thing, the whole lens was just very , um, very insightful. I feel like. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and so real, like I was thinking too , particularly at the funeral when Claudia's like, I haven't cried since Wednesday and I just feel like a stone. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> and everyone around me is crying and I feel like I'm supposed to be crying, but like,

Speaker 2 17:22

And she's losing time too, where she says like, it's a blur. Yeah . Yeah .

Speaker 3 17:25

She's like , Stacey remembers more of the funeral than I did and Yeah.

Speaker 4 17:29

Yeah. It was very real. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 7 17:31

<affirmative> . Yeah. Even like the, that her body's not in the casket thing.

Speaker 2 17:35

Yeah . Yeah . That's not her. Yeah. And that I, I thought that whole paragraph she had about we woke up formal this morning. Yeah, yeah. Was extremely well written . Like That's exactly right. Like you wake up and it's again, you have to play a role. So now your role is the grieving family. So you need to stand there at the funeral and you need to tell people thank you for coming and you , you know, you

Speaker 3 17:56

Accept all the food. Yep . And then she got tired of eating the pound cake , which was a shocker, but you know,

Speaker 7 18:02

Because she loves her junk food. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:04

She's just gonna hide it under her bed for

Speaker 4 18:06

Another day. That was funny. She was like, what did they think? Mimi was the only person cooking food in this house. <laugh> ,

Speaker 2 18:13

Sorry. No one wanted to offend you. And your lettuce salad

Speaker 7 18:18

Is so, so funny though because then it was like, with Maryanne , she's like, oh , um, the only other person that probably feels it as greatly as we do is Maryanne . 'cause she doesn't have a mother.

Speaker 4 18:28

I , yeah .

Speaker 7 18:29

And I was like, well dang ,

Speaker 4 18:32

That's a very Claudia conservation. Of course. Maryanne's over there just crying. No one consoling her <laugh> .

Speaker 3 18:38

I , I think it was really realistic and interesting how they portrayed how she went from like talking to her friends. And the night before it was just like, oh yeah, I'm, let's tell our our Mimi stories. I thought that whole thing was like really sweet. But then the next time they tried to do it, it was very like, no, I don't wanna , let's not , let's not do this. But then a few days later she was just like, well now I actually do wanna hear Mimi stories. I thought that was a very like realistic portrayal of grief where sometimes you do kind of want that comfort of it and then sometimes you're just not in the space to handle it. And I think that was done really well.

Speaker 2 19:11

I did think it was interesting too that Christie again is pretty good at understanding people I think. Yeah . Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> because she had that entry in the notebook that was like, boy Claudia, it's like nothing even happened. I'm kind of surprised. But good for you. I guess like where she's, she is sort of getting the, like what Claudia's doing with this sort of false front that she's putting on isn't maybe the healthiest, but at the same time she's kind of like, you know, I respect that you're <laugh> . You know , you're just going, you're, you keeping it moving.

Speaker 7 19:46

No, I thought she was really insightful when she was talking about Corey and saying that Claudia's connection to Corey , which is one of her students in the , um, baby art class that she starts. Um, I thought that was really insightful and like the way that she said it, she was like, I don't think you'll do this, but I just still want to say it out loud just so that you're aware that this, this could lead to you. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> just kind of like relying a lot on this child and then potentially dropping her. I know what that's like. Just putting it out there. I don't think you'll do it , but don't, yeah , like don't. Yeah .

Speaker 4 20:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:24

No, and I thought that was an interesting, again, I think really sophisticated for a book that's meant for like fourth graders and is a serialized set of books. Like to throw that in there I think is a different layer than we expect in other things. You know, it's paralleling what's going on with Claudia and Mimi. It's also, you know, saying something about their responsibility to these kids Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> that they're watching. You know, it's not just, oh, we just need to keep them occupied and make sure they don't burn down the house. It is a lot of emotional weight and responsibility when you're caring for kids as often as they are and sort of looking at why does Corey need Claudia so much right now? Why does Claudia need Corey so much right now? And is that going down a slippery slope for them where it's getting a little too codependent or something in an unhealthy way. Yeah. I think that's extremely mature for, you know, a 13-year-old to be on top of that. But you know , Christie wants the club to keep going. <laugh> , so she's gonna

Speaker 7 21:28

Yeah, I was gonna say, and for it to be Christie , who Claudia considers like childish too .

Speaker 3 21:34

Yeah. I think that , um, I like that Corey and um, Claudia have that relationship. I hate that. Uh, her mom is so like, eh , like to the point where like, I, I like that Claudia like, you know, towards the end she does that whole thing where like, yeah, I'm sorry , um, I'm running a little bit . Well

Speaker 2 21:52

Take her to the extra aids or whatever extra . Yeah.

Speaker 3 21:55

But I'll have the babysitter's gonna meet her at the ice show or whatever and she's just like, yo, go to the show with your daughter man. Like, you ain't noticed that your daughter ain't bring home no art in how many weeks we've been doing this art class. Like she's been giving it away. 'cause she don't like you like that 'cause you don't like her. Like, not even really that, but just like, I think it was really insightful of Claudia to have that conversation with her and considering that she didn't know what direction that could've taken. Like her mom could've easily been like, mind your business. That's not what I pay you for. Right. But also like as an adult, I feel like why are you pushing your responsibilities onto children?

Speaker 2 22:28

Well, yeah, I mean it's, you were like,

Speaker 3 22:30

She reached out to her and was like, yo, can you do this art class for my kid?

Speaker 2 22:33

And then she's bringing her super early and showing up an hour late and like Yeah. Yeah . But everybody knows someone like that . Like that's so real. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . Yeah .

Speaker 7 22:43

I was wondering what she wanted to say with that story because I feel like there's like an underlying story with Stacey and the fact that like the dad was gonna come down with them or like gonna come to Connecticut with them and then at the last minute decided not to. And Claudia was just like, oh, it's probably 'cause he didn't really know Mimi. But , um, I think, you know, there is a sense that I think Stacey does come back and I don't know if that's because Do they split?

Speaker 2 23:09

Yeah. Think they do . I think they do. Yeah. I think she was

Speaker 7 23:11

Trying to plant the seed of the parents

Speaker 2 23:13

Getting

Speaker 7 23:13

Divorced. Yeah. And so it felt that way. And then I , a part of me was like wondering like, what is it about the, it's the Addisons right? Yeah. Like what is it about them that they feel like they don't have enough like time together and why is like the time that they spend with their children not like good enough. Like I understand needing your alone time, but it was like, it was like excessive, like wanting that like all the time. Well

Speaker 2 23:38

There is kind of like a weird through line of that too, where you have parents viewing the kids almost as like accessories rather than people because Jenny's mom Right . Was kind of like that too. Yeah . It's like, well I'm gonna dress her up like a little doll and that's her value. Like I don't really think of her as a per no . Why ? What would she play? What would she get dirty with? They told her

Speaker 3 24:01

To play clothes and she, they , she sent her in a brand new all white

Speaker 2 24:05

Dress. Dress . Yeah.

Speaker 4 24:07

I feel like it's part of continuing the whole theme of just like all the different families and what's going on behind closed doors and how like complicated all the dynamics are. Like I feel like through obviously through the main babysitters, Martin is trying to tell the story of like family dynamics, but I think she uses the kids as another way. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> to show like, like every family is different. Every family has their own crap going on that we don't know about or that we kind of get insights into, but we'll never really understand like, fully what's happening there.

Speaker 2 24:38

Yeah. I mean I think it does over the course of reading a few of these, I feel like almost any kid , kid could see themselves in one of the situations. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , you know , whether it's the kid that feels a lot of pressure to be good at school like Janine or Claudia, whether it's the kid that feels like they're kind of keeping it together for their family that's fallen apart like Christie or the kid like Corey who, whose parents just are disinterested. Um, I, I think there's a lot of different, and I think that's really cool because I mean, even compared to like a Nancy Drew, you don't ever get anything that's particularly hard hitting about family dynamics even though her mom is deceased. You know, it's, it's still a very traditional looking family. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And this, we have people who are separated. We have people who are widowed, we have people who are divorced. We have, you know, all manner, we have intergenerational families. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . I think she's really just trying to show like the breadth and scope of how families can look. Yeah. You have Mallory with 8,000 siblings <laugh> like ,

Speaker 4 25:45

And then the addition of the adopted Vietnamese child that was really ,

Speaker 2 25:50

I forgot about Emily. Simon . Emily Michelle <laugh>

Speaker 4 25:53

The most like white bread American <laugh> . Um, I , I do think something that's interesting for me is like before rereading these, whenever, and I think I even mentioned this in the Christie episode, like the thing that I remember most about Mimi is when Claudia is afraid that Mimi's gonna refreeze the food and give them salmonella,

Speaker 10 26:15

Leave him, he'll give you salmonella no love.

Speaker 4 26:19

And that is the only thing that I remembered. And even in this book where so much happens that is really traumatic and stressful. I didn't remember Corey , I didn't remember the art class. I didn't even remember Mimi's funeral, but I really viscerally remembered the salmonella, which is just an offhanded comment thought . Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:34

It's like one

Speaker 4 26:35

Sentence. I thought it , yeah. I thought it was like something that she really like Ha , that happens a lot. No, it's like literally half of a sentence. And to this day, like I don't like leftovers and I don't buy, I really don't buy meat because I feel very nervous about <laugh>

Speaker 11 26:49

Giving myself salmonella. That

Speaker 4 26:51

Was your foot sand .

Speaker 7 26:53

I think . I think I like highlighted it and put Okay. Food safety

Speaker 2 26:56

<laugh> . Yeah . Well and there's also the mantra I was thinking like, oh this is gonna open a can of worms for some people. 'cause there's, she says something like, and Mimi might forget to wash the chicken. And I was like, oh, the washing chicken is a very like polarizing issue. Yeah .

Speaker 4 27:11

So

Speaker 3 27:11

Funny because I thought the same thing and I wasn't gonna bring it up. That's

Speaker 6 27:14

All over social media still. Like people arguing about washing chicken or not.

Speaker 4 27:20

Yeah.

Speaker 3 27:22

They say you're technically not supposed to, but I'm still washing my chicken <laugh> .

Speaker 4 27:25

Yeah. It's, I mean it's just so funny what sticks with you when you're a kid. Like Yeah . Never what you anticipate. And I think it's like, it it , the other one that stands out for me is like cholera. Like Kirsten getting cholera. Yeah . Kirsten . Like that's what I remember from the entire series is cholera and San Lucia day. Like those are the two things, you know. So

Speaker 2 27:44

I do have some questions about what was happening with Mimi, like

Speaker 3 27:48

Parasites or fungus is possible or

Speaker 7 27:51

Maybe lupus.

Speaker 2 27:53

Why were, why were they giving her blood transfusions after fainting and what are we supposed to think was going on with her? Yeah. I , that was odd.

Speaker 3 28:01

And then like after the, she was getting better but then she was also like, her speech was more like nonsensical than before. Like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 28:15

Yeah. I mean I thought that was meant to be dementia. Like Okay, that makes sense. So she had had the stroke and then she had sort of the deficits that were post-stroke that she couldn't get rid of. So she had gotten back to some plateau and this was supposed to show like declining from that plateau.

Speaker 4 28:31

Well it's aphasia. Which I always thought

Speaker 2 28:34

Well that's the not being able to come up with the words. Yeah. But a blood transfusion is not going to have anything to do with that. So

Speaker 4 28:40

I know . Well that's what was confusing is like I always thought that she had dementia as a kid and now I'm , now I've

Speaker 2 28:46

Realized she had a stroke . Stroke. Well I think the aphasia is meant to be dementia because she had gotten back to after the stroke certainly, which caused aphasia. She had gotten back to a more stable and we see her declining over the course of this book. So something else is going on with her.

Speaker 7 29:01

Yeah. I'm surprised there's no discussion on it online. 'cause I really wanted to know if anyone kind of tried to do a deep dive into it. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> because there was the other thing about her feeling like intense pain

Speaker 2 29:11

Yeah.

Speaker 4 29:12

Was , yeah, it was like a lot of random symptoms that then never got solved. Yeah. Get her some

Speaker 3 29:16

Painkillers.

Speaker 2 29:17

<laugh> . Yeah. That was crazy too. Like please help her <laugh> .

Speaker 7 29:21

Oh , one of The's terrible things people ask is, does Janine from babysitters club have autism?

Speaker 2 29:27

Well, yeah. I mean I I thought she was kind of coded that way as well. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . But

Speaker 7 29:35

Yeah, no one seems to talk about what Mimi might have had.

Speaker 3 29:40

Yeah. Like even on the wiki page under her health problems, it doesn't really like get into it just talks about the stroke but it doesn't save anything after that she recovered. Well a physical therapist helped her walk and talk. She limped and couldn't use her right hand. Her speech was difficult.

Speaker 2 29:55

Yeah. But she's like clearly declining more because like right at the beginning it's the like not remembering to start dinner. Like she's losing her routine. She is just, yeah. Kind of general decline.

Speaker 3 30:10

Apparently in the Netflix series after she has her stroke, she starts having memories of living in uh , a World War II Japanese American internment camp in

Speaker 2 30:18

California when she was a Interesting,

Speaker 3 30:19

Wow. It says this differs from the books where she's mentioned as having a happy childhood in Japan and being close

Speaker 2 30:24

Kids . Yeah . Because she came over like in her thirties because Claudia's mom was already a , a child when they came. Yeah. Which

Speaker 3 30:31

I think is an interesting change. Yeah. I think it's interesting to have her grow up here as opposed to coming here as an adult. I kind of wanna watch the series now.

Speaker 4 30:40

Um, people

Speaker 2 30:40

Said it was good.

Speaker 4 30:42

This is, I mean everybody fact checked me because this is just like neuroscience news.com so who knows. But apparently after you have a stroke you can, your body's trying to like fix things and so like blood transfusions help prevent your immune system from going into overdrive. Hmm . So maybe that she was having like immune responses and that was causing her body to freak out or would you

Speaker 6 31:05

Do that right after the stroke opposed

Speaker 2 31:07

To

Speaker 6 31:08

Removed ? You have fainting long after a stroke. And is that a treatment that it seems like

Speaker 2 31:13

In the eighties because they say she's, they did check her out with the fainting spells and she wasn't testing abnormally on stuff. Right. So like I don't think she's meant to as

Speaker 6 31:23

Like they did lab work.

Speaker 2 31:24

No, I thought they said that they had checked something out , uh,

Speaker 6 31:28

Like they did like a CT or an M MRI

Speaker 2 31:30

Or something. Yeah. I thought they mentioned something about they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. All of the tests came back fine, but the blood transfusion seemed to pick her up.

Speaker 6 31:39

So they just did random blood transfusions, like throwing spaghetti at the

Speaker 2 31:42

Wall , which is kind of strange. The ,

Speaker 6 31:44

That does not make sense .

Speaker 4 31:44

That's kind of what they said in it. Like, oh we just, we'll try this sort

Speaker 2 31:47

Of , yeah. It says two more days went by. No one could figure out what was wrong with Mimi's blood. They did test after test and Mimi talked about weirder and weirder things. They even tested her for something called toxoplasmosis. So they never did diagnose her.

Speaker 3 32:02

Remember she freaks out and she's like

Speaker 6 32:04

Leukemia.

Speaker 2 32:05

Yeah. Oh yeah .

Speaker 6 32:06

So , you

Speaker 2 32:06

Know , but yeah, I mean I don't think she was having, I mean I don't think we're supposed to read it, is that she was having additional strokes 'cause that would've been clear visible on testing. So I don't know. I mean I think maybe she just kept it vague. 'cause she didn't really, no <laugh> have a medical background and it's like I just need to , but she had a doctor off on the book .

Speaker 6 32:27

There was a vampire that she

Speaker 3 32:29

Named with Claudia

Speaker 2 32:30

After

Speaker 6 32:30

<laugh> the , the witch summon of vampire

Speaker 2 32:32

Morbid death than he cursed her .

Speaker 6 32:35

He was, you know, feeding on Mimi. That's why she was fainting. That's why , um, that's <laugh> after some pints of fresh blood. Me start , I'm looking at the babysitter's Club Wiki after some pints of fresh blood. They other , they specify fresh blood. Yeah . Maybe starts feeling better and is allowed to go home. This has Dracula vibes to me.

Speaker 2 32:54

I mean it's ,

Speaker 4 32:54

I mean , I guess a

Speaker 2 32:55

Empire joke . Maybe just organs were shutting down or something. But yeah, I, I do think that they did a, a pretty good job with this and just, you know, that is what it's like to watch somebody decline and it makes you sad but it also makes you angry. Makes that person really frustrated. I mean, I think that was the thing I remember the most with my grandmother as it got worse. She just was so scared by what she wasn't able to do and wasn't remembering. And, and she was also like Mimi somebody that was never, she just wasn't angry at people. You know, she was a very kind person. And so even seeing like flashes of frustration from her was so unusual that you knew things were bad. Yeah.

Speaker 4 33:39

Um, I also, when she has the second time that she faints, Claudia says it takes the paramedics 10 minutes, minutes , minutes to arrive, call

Speaker 12 33:49

An ambulance, but not for

Speaker 2 33:51

Me. I buy it, it took 'em at least that long to get here for an od the other day.

Speaker 13 33:56

Enjoying , everything's going way

Speaker 6 33:59

Very normal for paramedics. What ?

Speaker 4 34:03

That's so long.

Speaker 6 34:04

Yeah. There's not always help quickly if you need it, unfortunately .

Speaker 4 34:09

Um, the other thing, so the other thing we haven't really talked about is the art class, which , which I thought was really cool to show Claudia. Like having that like intuitive nature to not only like be good at art but also like teach it to others. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the thing that stood out for me is they have the child , um, Matthew, I forget Yeah. Who's deaf. Yeah. And everyone seems

Speaker 2 34:34

Signing to

Speaker 4 34:35

Language

Speaker 2 34:35

Him . Yeah . That was weird to me . Including,

Speaker 4 34:36

Which like seemed weird for someone who struggled to learn things, who like just knows sign language fluently all of a sudden

Speaker 6 34:44

<laugh> . That's a very hard skill to acquire <laugh> .

Speaker 2 34:46

Well and then they have like one of the five-year-olds or like Mariah or something is like translating for him . It's like why does she know how to sign <laugh> ? Yeah . That was very strange . I

Speaker 6 34:55

Mean great . But because

Speaker 7 34:56

This is what number is there's

Speaker 2 34:58

Twenty's very little

Speaker 6 34:59

Support and infrastructure for kids learning language.

Speaker 2 35:02

Yeah. That was odd. There was ,

Speaker 7 35:04

I just assumed that it was mentioned offhand before and they just like all decided to.

Speaker 2 35:10

It maybe was, I don't remember. That's

Speaker 6 35:13

<laugh> .

Speaker 4 35:14

So there, apparently there's a book in the series. I think I've read this one is this before. Okay. So sometime before when they first meet Matt, the character Jesse babysits him and she learned sign language through babysitting him. Like from being a baby.

Speaker 6 35:30

That's not how this works. Uh , no

Speaker 2 35:33

<laugh> .

Speaker 4 35:33

So that's already kind of weird. But then also like, I don't, it doesn't seem like in the plot anyone else is watching him and learning this. So like I just don't understand how all of a sudden everyone knows

Speaker 2 35:43

It . Yeah . That's very strange and not realistic at all.

Speaker 4 35:46

It would be great if it was that easy to

Speaker 2 35:48

Pick it up. Yes. With any language. That would be awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 4 35:51

Any language. But that's

Speaker 2 35:52

Not how it works. Were there any other discussion topics we wanted to hit before we go into the game?

Speaker 3 35:59

Mimi Forever.

Speaker 2 36:00

Yeah, we love you. We love Mimi. How do we feel about recommending these books now These are now 40 years old almost.

Speaker 4 36:09

I mean, I think the, the the phantom phone call like um, summary or whatever the wrap up is a , the de Newmont is a little uh, iffy. But otherwise I think they're really nuanced and thoughtful and I would definitely recommend them. I

Speaker 2 36:24

Agree .

Speaker 4 36:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 36:28

And there's not a lot of pop culture in these. Yeah. Like there's not references that date it very explicitly. Other, I think we talked about in Chrissy , it's the phone line, the landline in Claudia's room and like, you know, okay. They would do more things online obviously now, but you could still see girls getting together and flyering the neighborhood. Yeah . About like their babysitting services for sure. Um, and I think she's tackling a lot of big issues that are just, they're emotional issues. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , those don't change that much. Like Sure the window dressing around it does, but the heart of it, which is losing somebody , um, feeling alone, you know, being scared. Like all of those things I think are still just valid.

Speaker 3 37:13

Yeah. I think , um, well this is just more thought about Babysitters Club book books in general. But I was sitting on the desk yesterday and this girl, she returned one and then she checked out a couple more. I was like, oh , are you reading Babysitters Club books? And she was like, yeah. And I was like, me

Speaker 4 37:26

Too girl . <laugh>

Speaker 2 37:28

Nice . They

Speaker 14 37:29

These ones or the graphic

Speaker 3 37:30

Novels? She was doing a mix of both. Oh cool . So I thought that was pretty cool.

Speaker 4 37:34

Whichever available.

Speaker 3 37:35

Yeah, exactly. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . So I thought that was pretty cool. Um, yeah, I pretty much echo you guys' sentiments. Like even with Claudia and the phantom phone calls. Yeah. I would've liked it better if it didn't have that whole like, tidbit at the end of like, oh, so sometimes boys do this if they like you, but overall, you know, nothing to the point where I'm just like, mm . Maybe stay away from that one. So yeah , they were fun. You

Speaker 4 37:56

Just have a conversation about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 37:58

And another thing as well is, I don't know, like how old were you guys when you guys were reading these books? Like, were you guys because like I know these characters

Speaker 2 38:04

Are like third

Speaker 3 38:04

Grade . Okay. Because that's what I thought. Because like these characters are like middle schoolers, but I was

Speaker 4 38:07

Younger than them.

Speaker 3 38:09

These characters are middle schoolers, but I don't see middle schoolers reading these. Right.

Speaker 2 38:13

I think it's definitely meant as aspirational for younger girls. And

Speaker 3 38:16

That's cool. I like that because kids like to read about older kids. Yeah.

Speaker 4 38:20

Especially at that age. And I did read the Karen spinoff too. I love

Speaker 2 38:24

Her. Oh , I've still gotta do it . Oh , Karen is her remains . She's the best . Remains my favorite character at these . Also. She was terrible to Jenny, but like I totally was , I I also would've hated Jenny at that Monster says Wear socks <laugh> .

Speaker 4 38:38

Um, I I will say though, I am curious to read one that's from after Martin stopped writing them because I do feel like the, it's not the plot, it's the way she writes the characters. Mm-Hmm . And I'm curious if the ghost writers really kept that tradition. Yeah . Too . It's like

Speaker 6 38:52

Frank Herbert stopped writing the Dune books. Yeah. <laugh> .

Speaker 7 38:56

Yeah. Um, so I did say that they hold it pretty well, but I still think it's funny like when the child psychology thing comes into play. 'cause I have , um, highlighted the part where , um, Claudia says suddenly I felt alone and abandoned like Corey waiting on our front steps for her mother. And I was like, that's so brutal. Like, why , why would you phrase it that way? But it's like , yeah, like how do I show a character? Like Yeah . Understanding what feelings she has and like relating it to something else. And obviously like you're trying to relate Corey to Claudia and why they have such a bond and so like kind of necessary but kind of unnecessary. Yeah. Alright . Um, so we are doing a Buzzfeed quiz and it is by Cocoa Panda 34, a community contributor. So the title of this one is Eat at this Dessert Buffet Like a toddler at a birthday party. And I'll tell you which Babysitters Club character you remind me of. That's such

Speaker 2 39:58

A weirdly wait that is favorite specific .

Speaker 3 40:01

I didn't realize that that was the whole quiz. I thought we were just talking about desserts in general. This is amazing. I

Speaker 4 40:06

Also like really appreciate the under-promising of it's not, I'll tell you which Babysitters Club character you are. It's just which one You remind me . Me. Cocoa Panda 34.

Speaker 7 40:15

Right. <laugh>

Speaker 6 40:17

Community contributor.

Speaker 7 40:18

All right . So the first one is first, first pick a donut . And so you have chocolate iced strawberry iced, a rainbow sprinkled cookies and cream glazed and a maple bacon.

Speaker 3 40:32

Wow . Now I want sweets after this. Um, so I'm leaning towards cookies and cream. I, I do love a good maple donut , but not, I don't eat the swine so I'll pass on the bacon. So may cookies

Speaker 4 40:41

And cream also like you're a toddler. Are you as a toddler gonna go for maple bacon? No,

Speaker 6 40:46

I like bacon. I like maple. But I feel like you're ruining a maple donut by putting bacon on us . I'm gonna go with cookies and cream. You <laugh> .

Speaker 4 40:52

I was also gonna go for cookies and

Speaker 2 40:54

I'll be weird. I'll go rainbow sprinkles. I was gonna

Speaker 7 40:57

Say, I was like, I was gonna say glazed like now, but I think as a child I was really into rainbow Sprinkles.

Speaker 2 41:03

Same with me darling. And it

Speaker 6 41:04

Comes with a candle. Let's point that the picture of the candle. That's

Speaker 2 41:07

True . That one is the fanciest of Yeah , you can light it on fire. Exactly.

Speaker 6 41:11

Oh,

Speaker 7 41:12

Yay . Sorry.

Speaker 6 41:14

Oh, the glazed one has bites taken out of it . Who wants a donut that has bites taken out

Speaker 3 41:18

Of it already ? They were so excited to get the donut . They

Speaker 2 41:20

Already took . Wait .

Speaker 7 41:22

Uh, so the next choose an ice cream flavor and this one actually has one that I don't see often anyway. But there's cookie dough , uh, cotton candy, coffee, pistachio, strawberry and vanilla.

Speaker 2 41:35

A hundred percent pistachio. Uh ,

Speaker 7 41:37

Yeah, I was gonna say that's my favorite.

Speaker 4 41:40

Hmm . Toddler. You would go for pistachio.

Speaker 2 41:42

Oh yeah . That has always been my favorite. Aw ,

Speaker 4 41:44

I

Speaker 2 41:44

Love that. I like old people Ice cream though. I also like Butter Pecan. Yes .

Speaker 3 41:48

See Butter pecan was on here . I would've <laugh>

Speaker 2 41:52

Gimme all the old people flavors.

Speaker 3 41:54

I'm gonna say cookie dough even though that cookie dough looks like actual cookie D and not like cookie dough ice cream.

Speaker 2 41:59

It's a little suspect. They're pouring something on it too .

Speaker 4 42:02

It

Speaker 6 42:03

Looks like caramel on it. Or

Speaker 3 42:04

Maybe I eat that.

Speaker 4 42:06

I almost said coffee. 'cause I think I did really like my dad always ate coffee ice cream. So I thought that was like the grownup thing to do, but I think I'm gonna go for vanilla.

Speaker 6 42:17

I'm

Speaker 7 42:17

Gonna Oh , it's vanilla with sprinkles too. Yeah,

Speaker 4 42:19

With sprinkles

Speaker 6 42:20

And like a sprinkle , uh, I don't know . Edible bowl. I'm gonna go with strawberry.

Speaker 3 42:26

Vanilla's a good base. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . You can put all the fun things on it. That's

Speaker 7 42:29

True. Yeah . Yeah. I almost never see pistachio on this. I'm actually really happy. Same .

Speaker 3 42:33

You feel seen? Yeah, I feel seen . Are you cocoa? Panda <laugh> .

Speaker 7 42:39

Don't tell everyone <laugh> . Oh, sorry. Right .

Speaker 3 42:41

Edit that out. <laugh> .

Speaker 7 42:44

Now pick a cupcake. Funfetti red velvet, vanilla, strawberry budge, brownie and butter cookie.

Speaker 4 42:53

I mean funfetti.

Speaker 2 42:56

I had a funfetti catastrophe when I was a kid, so I would not have picked this. I will go with strawberry. What was

Speaker 3 43:02

The fun Fetty catastrophe <laugh> . What ? What happened in there ?

Speaker 2 43:06

So

Speaker 7 43:07

Have

Speaker 2 43:07

You ever like eaten something right before you got sick? Oh yeah. And so then you like associate that with that for the rest of your life? Yeah , I

Speaker 6 43:15

Had that with hot

Speaker 2 43:16

Dogs . I wanted Funfetti so badly and I convinced my mom to let me get a funfetti, like Betty Crocker kind of thing. So I made funfetti cupcakes and then I think I had maybe half a funfetti cupcake and I got so sick.

Speaker 15 43:33

But fetty cake and frosting, it's an explosion of color. Nothing says loving like funfetti

Speaker 2 43:39

And they had nothing to do with each other. But it's just like puking Funfetti makes you never want funfetti ever again.

Speaker 7 43:46

I had a similar thing with like chocolate, like a chocolate cake. Granted I still don't mind a chocolate cake. Um, but for me it was because we would always go to like a neighbor's house and make like cakes or we would just bake with her. Um, and she, unlike this book, did not talk anything about like food safety.

Speaker 3 44:07

So no ,

Speaker 2 44:07

We

Speaker 7 44:07

Would like eat the batter because it was like sweet batter <laugh> . You have to . Um, and yeah, that made me like you got

Speaker 2 44:14

Actual salmonella <laugh> . Yeah,

Speaker 6 44:16

I had an incident with a hot dog and a car ride and then I didn't eat hot dogs for like Yeah . As a kid that for like 20 years after

Speaker 2 44:24

<laugh> . Yeah . Really? It rested it for you ? Oh , it

Speaker 7 44:26

Was

Speaker 6 44:26

So bad.

Speaker 4 44:26

Mine was lime Rita's water, ice and strep throat at field day. Yep . Because if you've ever had like a citrus thing when you have strep throat barns and it was pulpy and I never liked the pulpy ones anyway, so like that was just, yeah,

Speaker 6 44:38

It's a burning texture thing .

Speaker 7 44:40

How much , do you have anything

Speaker 2 44:42

Here ? You said do I have anything ? You thrown up <laugh> , tell us

Speaker 3 44:47

Everything

Speaker 2 44:49

<laugh> .

Speaker 3 44:50

Um , yeah, no , nothing's coming to mind at this point.

Speaker 2 44:53

<laugh> .

Speaker 6 44:54

We're glad you've avoided this sister .

Speaker 2 44:57

But

Speaker 3 44:57

My answer to this cupcake question torn because I liked , I liked Funfetti. I also was a really, really big red velvet fan and I still really do like red velvet now I'd probably pick strawberry, but I think I'm gonna do red velvet. I liked red velvet.

Speaker 6 45:11

I'm gonna pick red velvet too. Not to copy you, but I like, I like red velvet. I know that like it's, the color is kind of like a scam. It doesn't really taste different. Yeah . But it's so fun to eat something red. Yeah .

Speaker 7 45:22

Yeah. I'm gonna pick strawberry.

Speaker 4 45:24

It tastes like velvet to

Speaker 6 45:25

Me. Yeah. <laugh> like they should , like, there's evidence that like the color of like mugs you put coffee in or whatever. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> supposedly changes the taste.

Speaker 3 45:34

Interesting.

Speaker 7 45:35

All right , next choose a candy. Options are lollipop, Snickers, Skittles, gummy worms. Twizzlers or Kit Kat .

Speaker 4 45:45

That is the weirdest picture of Twizzlers I've ever seen. <laugh>

Speaker 2 45:49

Coming outta tea . Tea , tea kettle. That's bizarre . A singular

Speaker 4 45:53

Twizzle.

Speaker 2 45:55

Did y'all use twizzlerss of straws? Yes. Yeah , we always did that. I've

Speaker 6 45:59

Drunk , um, tequila with

Speaker 2 46:01

<laugh> making as a toddler. But <laugh> not as a toddler. No . Out of these as a kid I would've gone for those lollipops. Those are like cool unique lollipops. Yeah.

Speaker 4 46:12

Well even just a regular lollipop. Like you

Speaker 2 46:14

Go to bank . I do like a lollipop. Yeah . The dumb gums .

Speaker 7 46:17

<laugh> .

Speaker 3 46:18

I'm going towards Skittles.

Speaker 6 46:19

Are those sour gummy worms?

Speaker 2 46:20

I can't. They look like, yeah , they

Speaker 4 46:22

Do look sour.

Speaker 6 46:23

Mm-Hmm . I see citric acid sugar on them. I'm picking gummy worms. <laugh>.

Speaker 7 46:26

Yeah. I'm going gummy worms too.

Speaker 3 46:29

I love that this went back and forth between like brand name candies and just like

Speaker 2 46:33

Yeah .

Speaker 7 46:34

<laugh> . That's true. It could have just said chocolate, but, okay. <laugh>, how did you give your answer?

Speaker 3 46:41

Oh yeah . Skittles.

Speaker 7 46:42

Skittles. Yes. Okay.

Speaker 6 46:43

Classic.

Speaker 7 46:45

All right , last one. Pick a random dessert. The options are apple pie, crepes, gum bears, salt water , taffee brownies or cheesecake.

Speaker 2 46:57

That's hard. Hard is hard .

Speaker 4 46:58

I'm donut after this fourth <laugh> .

Speaker 2 47:00

Wait what ? I mean I've always loved cheesecake, but I feel like when I was a kid I would've gone for crepes because I would never have had that and I would've just been like, oh, what is this? Okay , I will try the new thing.

Speaker 4 47:14

Hmm . Crepes is my answer now. <laugh> . Yeah. But as a kid I think I would've gone for a brownie. Oh ,

Speaker 6 47:19

We're supposed to take this as a toddler. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 47:22

You can , do you want ,

Speaker 6 47:24

I may have done this wrong.

Speaker 3 47:26

I think I'm leaning towards brownies because that's probably something more I would've loved as a kid. Cheesecake would be my answer now though.

Speaker 7 47:34

I'm stuck between apple pie or brownies, but I'm gonna go brownies,

Speaker 6 47:39

Gummy bears. That would be accurate for I think being a toddler or now probably <laugh>.

Speaker 2 47:46

Okay. Who'd everybody get?

Speaker 3 47:48

Which way are we going

Speaker 2 47:50

To her ? Do you wanna start? I can start

Speaker 7 47:51

<laugh> . So I got Claudia. You are the artsy, artsy artist with an eye for color, style and overall creativity. You have great fashion sense and people always trust your taste when it comes to style advice. And I'm so happy that I brought my colorful shirt and I specifically did it so that Claudia

Speaker 2 48:09

<laugh> , it's a channels bar .

Speaker 7 48:10

Yeah . So that Claudia Spirit would not judge me for being boring. <laugh> ,

Speaker 2 48:13

You got a really long description too. I got dawn and I got two sentences. <laugh> .

Speaker 7 48:18

Oh no .

Speaker 2 48:19

Apparently she didn't know much about Dawn. You are the peacemaker and you consider everyone's thoughts and feelings. You try to avoid drama at all costs and you especially hate being caught in it. I'm

Speaker 6 48:28

Dawn also. <laugh> . I'm sorry. That's it was

Speaker 2 48:31

Supposed but

Speaker 6 48:32

Wait,

Speaker 2 48:32

This is Dawn's non-confrontational bass . Did you

Speaker 4 48:35

All the healthy options?

Speaker 2 48:37

I no , I don't think, I guess pistachio didn't mean

Speaker 6 48:39

To pick healthy options .

Speaker 4 48:41

Ands had bananas

Speaker 2 48:41

On top. That's true. <laugh> . This is a , I mean I was very healthy eater when I was a kid, so maybe I was the dawn. Hannah

Speaker 3 48:47

Is so disappointed. <laugh> , I'm

Speaker 2 48:49

So disappointed. I don't even

Speaker 6 48:49

Know who dawn is, but this is so boring.

Speaker 7 48:52

Retake it as a toddler.

Speaker 2 48:54

<laugh> .

Speaker 6 48:54

I think all the messiest decisions .

Speaker 2 48:56

<laugh> .

Speaker 4 48:57

I think that , um, the person who made this quiz likes Claudia best because I got Christie and I did too. And it's also really short

Speaker 2 49:04

<laugh>.

Speaker 4 49:05

Uh , you're the leader of your friend group and you're very independent. You tend to be super responsible and organized at all times. I

Speaker 3 49:11

Am am not any of those things. <laugh> . I

Speaker 2 49:14

Mean , I'm a Christie . Well , to be fair, I think I'm a Christie too. Not a dawn , but it's okay . You

Speaker 7 49:19

Come Christy , to be fair , it's just really flowery language because the Claudia one is two sentences. Oh,

Speaker 2 49:24

It's just long sentence <laugh> .

Speaker 4 49:27

I could see, I feel like I could see you being a dawn . Maybe,

Speaker 3 49:32

Maybe not the healthy part, but what else do I don't know much about

Speaker 4 49:34

Dawn . Like she's the California vibes, like very,

Speaker 2 49:36

I think Howa could be a Stacey Stacy too though. Oh , you could be a Stacy because she has, she has style and like thanks guys. Yeah. <laugh>

Speaker 4 49:44

Very elevated taste

Speaker 3 49:45

My , my my elevated taste. <laugh> .

Speaker 2 49:47

Yeah .

Speaker 7 49:49

Stacey and Maryanne were options as well. I would , I'm just looking through the comments. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 3 49:54

<affirmative> . I would've loved to have seen what the other descriptions , uh, said. <laugh> . Um ,

Speaker 2 49:59

Who do we think Marianne will be like? You are nice and your boyfriend is Logan <laugh>. Oh ,

Speaker 3 50:04

It tells us in the de in the comments they say the mom

Speaker 2 50:06

Is dad .

Speaker 3 50:07

Stacey , you are a style icon. And Fasta , you're mature, independent, you take care of yourself. Lots of people look up to you and your strong sense of resilience. Okay. Maryanne , you are the more thoughtful, concerned friend who keeps everyone in mind and is only up for a game of fair play. You tend to be emotional more than others, but you're only showing your affectionate in care.

Speaker 7 50:24

Funny enough, shouldn't Stacey , I've been like the sugar-free option . <laugh> .

Speaker 2 50:28

<laugh> .

Speaker 7 50:30

But like, so which one? I don't which ones were chosen. No , she chosen ,

Speaker 2 50:33

She was a toddler. So this is Stacy . Before she knew she had find

Speaker 4 50:37

Her <laugh> ,

Speaker 3 50:41

It sounds like it would've been one of those like Nick Jonas commercials about diabetes. <laugh> like doesn't define who I am .

Speaker 2 50:48

Diabetes.

Speaker 6 50:48

Yeah. I don't know which character I wanted to be, but it wasn't Dawn . I I feel

Speaker 4 50:52

Like you're a Maryanne , which is like, I could , she's that she is like a , I don't know . She doesn't get enough credit in the later books. I feel like.

Speaker 2 50:59

Oh, I like Maryanne. Yeah.

Speaker 7 51:01

Yeah. I was trying to decide too while I was reading it and I was like, I kind of now wanna read all of them so that I, like, I know who all the characters are, I know what, what I'm working with, and then I'm like, yeah, that's me. Yeah.

Speaker 6 51:12

So this is like our new American girl , girl Doll. Yeah . Uh , you know, saga. Each episode we ask whether our book passes the Bedale test. The Bechdel test asks whether our work features two female characters who talk to each other about something that doesn't involve men or boys. Let's go girls. So does it pass or do these books pass? Yeah .

Speaker 2 51:35

Yes . Yeah, for sure. Mm-Hmm .

Speaker 3 51:36

As boy, crazy as Claudia tries to present herself, she really, it's, it's really,

Speaker 7 51:41

She really talks about them now . Exactly. We can talk about boys . Yeah . She

Speaker 3 51:44

Has balance. That's what we like to see. Yeah.

Speaker 2 51:46

<laugh> , there's lots of talk about Mimi, lots of talk about club business. Yeah . Lots of talk about children.

Speaker 7 51:54

The first little ,

Speaker 2 51:54

I guess there's a little bit on Alan and Trevor Sandborn, but it's not the most

Speaker 4 51:58

Romantic name. Yeah .

Speaker 6 52:00

Right . The boys are like side topics. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 7 52:02

Which I would've never said about the name Trevor. This Trevor. Trevor . I know .

Speaker 2 52:07

I was like Sanborn .

Speaker 4 52:08

I I think there are more romantic <laugh> .

Speaker 2 52:10

Yeah . It does feel very like soap opera though. Like, I feel like everyone was a Trevor or a Trent or a

Speaker 4 52:16

Trent is a romantic name. There's just a hard

Speaker 7 52:19

Tr Just reminds, reminds me of Trent. What makes a romantic Trent romantic name? Um , that character in Daria , the older brother.

Speaker 6 52:26

Oh,

Speaker 4 52:26

Maybe. Oh

Speaker 2 52:27

Yeah,

Speaker 7 52:28

That's who I think of. And I was like, not <laugh> .

Speaker 2 52:30

I think it's the e on the end of Sandborn that makes it romantic. It's like how you have a shop an S-H-O-P-P-E. That's a lot Shop .

Speaker 7 52:43

Yes .

Speaker 6 52:44

Yeah .

Speaker 3 52:46

You what's to the theater. But it's

Speaker 2 52:48

RE <laugh> .

Speaker 7 52:52

Um, I mean this is an aside, but I feel like I always tried really hard to envision Claudia's outfits and I wish that someone would go through it and just like, illustrate, illustrate complete

Speaker 2 53:03

Illustrated Claudia books .

Speaker 6 53:05

I wanna see like her collection of like earring that Oh, and her snake bracelet. I wanna see her snake bracelet. I want her snake bracelet.

Speaker 2 53:11

The lost earrings. All the suspenders. Yeah. Yeah . She has so many suspenders. I love shirts . I mean , she just dressed like blossom I think. Yeah . Like

Speaker 4 53:19

Does she have the same clothes in the graphic novels?

Speaker 6 53:22

Oh , that's a good question.

Speaker 2 53:23

I don't know . I haven't spent much time with

Speaker 4 53:24

That did they ?

Speaker 6 53:25

Because I feel like the fashion is, it's all ,

Speaker 7 53:28

It's all come back . Yeah .

Speaker 6 53:29

I

Speaker 4 53:29

Just vividly remember her being like, I wore my best outfit, my knee length green shorts and my matching oversized green T-shirt.

Speaker 2 53:38

Yeah. And I was like, ugh ,

Speaker 4 53:40

That's a thought . It's

Speaker 6 53:41

Strange time profession.

Speaker 3 53:43

<laugh> . It's kind of cool seeing how she dressed in like the series. Um, like I haven't watched any of it, but like I came across this like, collage of some of her outfits .

Speaker 2 53:52

Yeah. They de definitely updated things a bit. Yeah.

Speaker 3 53:55

Like, it's not as it's described in the book, but it still looks kind of cool. Is

Speaker 6 53:59

That from the series or did somebody like recreate her of the series . Oh , okay . Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Yeah. Like the 2020 series. Yeah.

Speaker 4 54:06

They just pulled out the, they they started adding pictures and then I think they got bored and they stopped. But they do have all the descriptions.

Speaker 2 54:14

Okay.

Speaker 3 54:14

That's cool.

Speaker 6 54:15

I feel like we should maybe pull some of the graphic novels and just kind of peek at what they're, what they're wearing.

Speaker 2 54:21

Yeah. Just to see. Yeah.

Speaker 3 54:23

See if I had finished the book before, right before we recorded , I could've been like, I'm gonna come dressed in my Claudia Tire . <laugh>

Speaker 2 54:30

<laugh> . The , the Wiki has I guess every single book who's wearing what.

Speaker 6 54:37

Oh really? Yeah. I admire the commitment.

Speaker 2 54:40

I I do too. Well,

Speaker 3 54:41

If y'all decide that y'all wanna recreate a Claudia outfit, send me a picture. That could definitely work for Instagram.

Speaker 2 54:47

Okay. Maybe we can, that would be fun. Like

Speaker 4 54:50

In a Pinterest board .

Speaker 3 54:51

Oh, that is cute.

Speaker 2 54:52

Oh nice . That is cute.

Speaker 3 54:55

She did say suspenders

Speaker 4 54:57

And the clock.

Speaker 3 54:58

Tights . Yeah.

Speaker 2 55:01

Hmm .

Speaker 3 55:02

Now I'm on a mission. Okay.

Speaker 2 55:03

Yeah. I feel like I'll, I'll need to dig around several. Yeah , same. I'm gonna raid my daughter's closets. <laugh> . That's cute. I have to take back some of my clothes. Like my clothes keep disappearing and then it's like Cora took all my clothes. <laugh> .

Speaker 3 55:17

At least she wants to take your

Speaker 2 55:18

Clothes. Yeah. Like I was looking for something today to wear and then she's at a orientation thing for this Noah Fellowship she has for this week. And I was like, do you know where my this dress is? And she's like, oh, I'm wearing it. <laugh> is that we

Speaker 6 55:36

Have a yes . I do know where it's , she's

Speaker 2 55:38

Like, I also took your this and this dress. And I was like, okay. Those were my work clothes. Is that what we have a pants today? It's <laugh> .

Speaker 3 55:50

Well, that's it for this episode of these books Made me join us next time when we'll discuss a book in which our main character writes a poem about creatures that live in tide pools. If you think you know which book we're tackling next, follow us on Instagram. We're at these books, made me and drop a comment on our guest , our next read post.