Episode 89 - Musician CJ Ramone (The Ramones)

Today's guest is CJ Ramone. From playing bass in The Ramones during the band's final chapter to building a successful solo career of his own, and now with Me First and the Gimme Gimmes, CJ has spent decades living and breathing punk rock. We talk about joining one of the most iconic bands in music history, life on the road, and how he made it all happen.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I really I everything was partying. All my paychecks went to, you know, partying and girls and base equipment. And I was I I still had a lot of drive and determination, but I was really unfocused. But being in the Marine Corps absolutely made me focused. And uh the reason why Johnny liked me from jump is he picked up on my military bearing. Johnny had gone to military school while he was a kid, so he picked up on it right away. And uh and I I absolutely credit the Marine Corps uh with uh with my time with the Ramones.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Welcome to the Artist Work Ethic Podcast. I'm Mike Pelak. I'm an actor, screenwriter, and filmmaker, and in this podcast, I talk to people from across the arts about their process, habits, and work ethic. You can find me on Instagram at the Artists Work Ethic Podcast, and I'd love to hear from you at the Artist Work Ethic Podcast at gmail.com. Today on the show is CJ Ramone. From playing bass in the Ramones during the band's final chapter to building a successful solo career of his own, and now with me first in the gimme gimmies, CJ spent decades living and breathing punk rock. We talk about joining one of the most iconic bands in music history, Life on the Road, and how he made it all happen. All right, CJ, thank you for coming on with me today. All right, good to be here. So, starting earlier in your life, something that you and I share that most guests on this podcast don't is that we were both in the military. Oh, okay. You were in the Marines, I was in the Army. All right. Did you take anything away from that time in your life that's translated into your work with the Ramones and then all the way up into today with your podcast?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah. I, you know, I've I've said since the beginning, uh uh, if it were not for the Marine Corps, I never would have made it in the Ramones with uh with Johnny being at the head of the organization there. Uh I came to the Ramones in uh 1989, right? So Johnny had been through it with um Mark and Joey both had alcohol problems. Dee Dee is uh, you know, had his battles with drugs and alcohol. When Dee Dee quit, Johnny uh he had had it with that entire lifestyle. I was just coming out of the Marine Corps when I auditioned, literally five weeks out of the Marine Corps, I was doing my first show. So I brought a very mission-oriented attitude towards it, which allowed me to learn 40 plus Ramon songs in five weeks and get on stage, you know, and and and uh and start my career with them. But had I not gotten the discipline um that I got in the Marine Corps and that you know, and and that drive to do it right the first time, I would not have lasted in the band with Johnny. Pre-Marine Corps, I was pretty, I was a shit bird. I really everything was partying, all my paychecks went to, you know, partying and girls and and base equipment. And I was I I still had a lot of drive and determination, but I was really unfocused. But being in the Marine Corps absolutely made me focused. And uh the reason why Johnny liked me from jump is he picked up on my military bearing. Johnny had gone to military school while he was a kid, so he picked up on it right away. And uh, and I I absolutely credit the Marine Corps uh with uh with my time with the Ramones.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah, it's definitely something that really can shape you. I mean, it it can sound a little cliche, but it really for the for the right person, it could really shape you and just your outlook and the way you handle yourself for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah. It's you know, it it's funny. Uh some people do good um with regular schooling, and they they don't have a problem with falling in line right away, and they're disciplined in how they study for tests and all that. I had none of that. I had this drive just to get out in the world and do as much as I possibly could. Um, but that did not equate to me being a good student. I was great at jobs, every job I ever worked. I I've I have a really good uh record as far as all my employers over the years, but um school was just not my thing. Um, but the Marine Corps kind of helped to shape that part of me up and be a little bit more uh be a little use my brain as well as my back. And uh yeah.

unknown 4:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

What did the years of touring with the Ramones teach you about just consistency and perseverance and getting that show out on stage every night?

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Johnny's goal was to keep the operation always moving at the same clip it did the day before. So everything was very organized. We you know, it was it was the the gear always arrived on time, the band always arrived on time. You know, we were always early getting to the airports. It was a really well-oiled machine by the time I got there. Um, and that was driven by Johnny's willpower to uh to put, you know, to to make the the band as good as it possibly could be. I mean, that's why we retired in 1996. He recognized, you know, Joey was already diagnosed and was slowing down and Johnny was starting to slow down, but putting out that superior product, you know, that was really what what drove Johnny. And and it's funny, you know, uh having been a fan and then played in the band, to see, you know, I thought I was joining a gang when I got in the remones, but to see from from inside the van how driven Johnny was and how totally 100% dedicated he was to maintaining a level of uh you know of uh professionalism that really was impressive to the fans all the way up to the end.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Do you feel like you took the l those lessons around work ethic and discipline and carry them over from the Ramones into your projects that came after that? Did you did you approach those with a mindset that, you know, maybe maybe watching what Johnny did and take those things and apply them and say, all right, this is my band now, and here's kind of how we're gonna do things going forward.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Right. Yeah, you know, I I don't want to toot my own hall, and I did horn, I did apply that to the bands that I played with post-Ramones, absolutely. I had Los Gusanos and Bad Chopper, and then of course going out my own thing, and I I tried to, you know, I tried to run it as Johnny ran the Ramones. But of course, it was very difficult. They did it on a much higher level. I was, you know, kind of starting all over again. But more importantly, I applied it to some of the relationships in my life and some of my other commitments, um, more specifically my family. I I uh became a father soon after the Mones retired, and my life became about my children from that point on. I I actually, when my boy was my oldest, was diagnosed with autism, I actually left music um for a number of years and uh stopped touring and uh stayed home and took care of my my children. I w I became a single dad there for a while, but I applied it kind of across the board. And that's why, you know, I I've always said Johnny was probably besides my father, had the bigger, biggest influence on me on my life, you know, as far as mentors go.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Once you thinking about that, once you came back into music and you did have a family and kids, and you know, you're you're forging this career and whatever else you might have had going on in your life, how did you maintain the balance to give the attention that all those things deserve? But but I know this is long-winded, but also keeping the focus on the music, which is what you need to support your family.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah. I'm really lucky that my the gal I'm married to now, we've been together for 20 years, coming up on 21 this year, is a very disciplined person and is she's a professional. And when we first got together, I was back in the workforce. I was working as an operating engineer in in Manhattan, and uh, and she was the one who said to me, you know, you should go back to playing music. She knew me while I was in the band. We were friends for 17 years. But she's she's the one who kind of pushed me to give music the attention that I needed to give it to play at a level that I would be satisfied playing at because it does take it does take a fair amount of of uh conditioning. But a 60-year-old guy now conditioning, but um I I have you know, my wife, my my in-laws are unbelievably helpful with supporting. When I do go on the road, they come and they hang out and take my daughter to school and pick her up from school and and all of that good stuff. So, you know, you can have all the discipline you want, but if if your situation does not enable you to do something, there's not a whole lot you can do about it. But I'm lucky that I do have a supportive wife and my in-laws, and so it allows me to stay focused when I need to be focused on music. And because I I can do that, be so focused when I'm on the road, when I come home, I can leave that out on the road. And I'm not because I was for a while, I wasn't that thing as I wish I was home, I wish I was on the road, I wish I was home, I wish I was on the road. And I realized I had to come to some kind of agreement with myself that I would leave home at home and leave the road on the road. And it took a little while for me to get get into that headspace again, but you know, again, I mean, that's some of the best support you can have.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

You know, I mean, even on a much smaller scale with this podcast, I had done about 80, 80 episodes or so. And a year and a half ago, I I stopped. It was meant to be like a one-month, you know, take a break. We were going on a road trip as a family. I'm not gonna mess with the podcast in that time. And I just didn't pick it back up until about two months ago. My wife was like, You need to start that again, you know, because I would come across maybe an actor or musician, I'd think, uh, I should, you know, if I was doing the podcast, I'd reach out to them and uh and and in a similar vein, she's downstairs putting the kids to bed, you know what I mean, so that I could come up here and and do this for for a little while. So it's it's the best, it's because if if there's conflict there, you're screwed.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

You know, agreed. You have to have a supportive partner. I just interviewed Harley from the Chrome AGs um a couple weeks back. I think it just aired this week. And uh, you know, he's got the same story. He was living like a wild man and and you know, and living a hardcore life of being on the road and playing music, and then he had kids, and you know, it things changed and everything. But um uh like me, he's you know, he's been he's been lucky enough to to have a good partner, business partner, wife, you know, or the whole nine. So there's a lot of things that go into it, you know. There really there's a lot of things that have to be in place for you to be able to do something like what we do, you know, to indulge yourself in something that you really enjoy doing and then you and that you're passionate about. You gotta have that supporting cast.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah. Was there ever a point where punk rock or music in general started to feel like a job? And and if so, how did you handle that and you know, handle that mentally and get yourself back on track, you know, with with what you need to be doing?

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah, it it got like that for a little while. It definitely did. I felt like I was under pressure to put records out and and all that. But you know, I I always try to to keep myself grounded in the knowledge that what you're thinking and what you're feeling right now is only a phase. It's just a phase, it's just part of your extended journey that you're gonna go through. In those times where you're where it everything seems difficult and you don't feel like you're you want to do it anymore, a lot of times it's you're just feeling the pressure and you're tired of dealing with it, and your brain is telling you, you don't have to do this anymore. You can go do something else. You know, and I'm guilty of that. I can't tell you how many times I told my wife, I'm gonna go to welding school, I'm gonna go, uh, you know, I want to I I want to captain a uh fishing boat, you know what I mean? Like all of these, and you know, she listens to me, God bless her, and she's always like, uh that probably would have been good to do when you were in your 20s, maybe. But at 60, you I think you need to just drill down and focus on the career that you've had since you were in your 20s. And it doesn't matter what job you have, at some point it becomes a job. No matter how cool your job is, at some point you get to, you know, you're just like, oh my God, it's it's like driving nails. And I used to use that with my guys on the road when some of my guys would be, you know, like, oh man, you know, this is really rough and blah, blah. And I'd say to them, a bad day on the road beats a good day at work.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Just keep that in mind, you know, because when we're done touring, you're gonna go back to your job and then you're gonna be like, what was I complaining about?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

You know, yeah. What what's something about longevity in punk that you think younger bands are completely misunderstanding today?

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Um, about longevity. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

I mean, I mean, I guess to to clarify, I I feel like I have a couple of friends who are maybe on the younger side, and I think they're kind of, and this isn't a blanket statement, but I think they're kind of missing the thing of of getting in the van and sleeping on the floor and kind of going too quickly to why don't I have an agent? Why am I not on a label somewhere? And and and they're kind of missing the you know, the the building of the character. Uh yeah, and the and the ground floor, building those those early roots, you know. And I'm curious your take on that from your POV.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

That's a that's a really that's a good observation. I mean, I and uh and it's not just in the music business in general, I think younger people's expectations are more in line with um what gets delivered to them um uh through entertainment, you know, through social media platforms and and all of that type of stuff. Because everything now is based on instant gratification. Like everything is, and I and I'm not saying you know, younger kids now are lesser than we were, or the bands aren't as good or anything like that. I'm not I don't have the old man attitude about that yet. Um, but uh right now I I I just feel like there's been a separation between what touring is actually like and what touring is like now. There's so much separation between what it was like originally and where we're at now that you know the younger people I I think don't get the the thing of a lot of you look at bands like Black Black Flag and or even the Ramones, you know, the Ramones weren't selling millions of records, but what they were doing was getting in a van and booking their own tours and selling records and getting out there and then doing it themselves. So, you know, it it sounds like and it looks like oh, that's so cool and what a great adventure and everything else. A lot of bands slept on floors for a lot of years. All these bands that you see out now, like all these bands from the punk rock bands from the 70s and 80s, they were not recognized for their talent back in the day. They were playing shows to a couple of hundred kids max. You know what I mean? They went through years, decades of of playing, you know, little little tiny gigs before punk rock was recognized on a scale large enough for them to have the younger punk bands bring them out on tour, like Rancid and Green Day and Offspring and uh, you know, Fat Mike's band, North Axe. And when all those bands broke, they started helping out all those bands from that time period and putting them on the festivals with them and taking them out on the road with them. But those bands lived of a lot of years just slugging it out in the trenches, you know. And I think that part of the history of punk rock in particular kind of gets glossed over a little bit, you know, and they treat it like the glory is. Oh, it was our scene and it was small and everything else. And that all is true, but nobody was making making a living doing it. Nobody was making a living doing it back then. It literally was scrounging up change at a gas station, at a truck stop on the highway to try to get money to make it to that next next show. And I'm not saying I was there for that, I absolutely was not. You know, I wasn't there for that. But um, all the all the guys I've known over the years and everything else, and listening to their stories, and there was a whole lot of pain and suffering for a very long period of time. And I think that time gets glossed over, and it's a part of touring and being in a band that I think has been lost on some of the on some of the young kids. And kids now have their financial struggles are way beyond what we had. Way beyond. I mean, these days it's crazy because they gotta have the iPhone and they, you know, just to live your re everyday life, you have to have a you know, a good solid phone that you could do your emails and do all your business on and book your shows and you know, be on your social media. They have a much different struggle. I think that's the main difference between then and now, bands, bands now and bands back then. But I still see bands out there slugging it, slugging it out right now. They're still out there slugging it out. So, you know, to me, the lesson always was is everybody wants to be a rock star until it's time to do what it takes to get to be a rock star, until you can't make your rent, and all of a sudden, oh I'm gonna we're gonna we're gonna have to all move into together to an apartment. There's still guys from the old days of punk rock scene who sleep in vans. You know what I mean? Like the lifestyle uh is not what most people think it is, you know. We say it all the time. I play with uh Spike and the Gimme Gimmies now. We'll be out on the road and it'll just be a brutal slog of no sleeping and sitting in an airport waiting for a flight that's six hours late, haven't eaten, everything in the in the airport is closed, and everyone's laying around like, oh my god, I wish I was home in bed. And I'm up, but in the back of my mind, I'm always going, not me. You could be at work. I'm happy on the work, I'm happy on the road.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

I am definitely a road dog for sure. What's a goal that you still want to accomplish in your career? Musically, jerk whatever.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

I you know, even I retired in 2019 from doing my own thing. I stopped being CJ Ramon at that point, stopped putting out records. Um and uh to me that was it. I was really done. I was totally done. Um, but I moved out here to the East Bay um 2017, and I I had done a couple things uh with the Gimme's. As soon as I announced my retirement, they were like, Well, would you be interested in coming? And uh it's hard for me to say no because I get to play with, you know, John Reese from Rocker from the Crib, and I play with Pinch from the Damned, and I play with Johnny Tubaggs from Social Distortion, and I play with Jay Kylie, Dez Kadena, we've had uh Stacey D, I've got uh Scott Schifflet, and I've played with all these crazy good uh musicians and stuff. So, I mean, if I could just maintain doing what I'm doing now with the gimme's for a couple more years and and uh get a little bit more time on the road. I still got friends in other countries I love seeing and everything. I'd be happy just cruising like this for a while. Maybe, maybe at some point do a little production for a younger band, a younger up-and-coming band or something like that, you know. But um, you know, once I always say, you know, once you've been in the Ramones, it's really hard to like look at anything else and be like, I gotta do that, you know. It's I I made a joke on another podcast. I said, it's like the guys that go to the moon, right? The astronauts that go to the moon. What do you what do you do next? Yeah, you know, like seriously, like what do you do next? What adventure could could you possibly go on that's gonna outdo going to the moon? And to me, I that's always how I've treated my life. I've treated my life like an adventure. I've tried to get out and do everything I possibly could from cross-country motorcycle trips to you know tuna trips out on the ocean for days at a time and touring all over the world and you know, getting to see all the stuff I'd seen. I just treated my life like an adventure, and music was the vehicle that that kind of made me able to do that. Awesome. Anything that you want to plug or talk about before we go? Oh, my my podcast, CJ Says, we got the podcast on all the streaming platforms. We're also on Patreon, patreon.com forward slash CJ Says. Um, the Gimmies uh uh spike in the Gimme Gimmies will have a new record out later on this year. We'll be on tour in the States, I want to say November, maybe, somewhere around there, September, October, November. Um, yeah, yeah, that's that's everything I got.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Awesome. Well, CJ, thanks for talking with me today. All right, thanks, man. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe if you aren't already, and come give me a like on Instagram at the Artists Work Ethic Podcast.