{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":4.08,"endTime":7.15,"body":"Hey, Andy. Thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":4.08,"endTime":7.15,"body":"for being willing to jump on the Opt out"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":7.19,"endTime":7.83,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":7.95,"endTime":9.982,"body":"I know I haven't done an episode in quite a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":10.006,"endTime":15.198,"body":"while, but with the drop of Proton Wallet and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":10.006,"endTime":15.198,"body":"just all of the things that Proton has been up"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":15.214,"endTime":17.102,"body":"to lately, honestly, y'all have been on a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":15.214,"endTime":17.102,"body":"roll."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":17.206,"endTime":20.75,"body":"I thought it'd be a really fantastic time to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":17.206,"endTime":20.75,"body":"get you on the podcast for the first time,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":20.83,"endTime":24.51,"body":"answer a lot of questions that people have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":20.83,"endTime":24.51,"body":"around this announcement, and honestly, just,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":24.55,"endTime":26.262,"body":"just get to know you a little bit better."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":26.366,"endTime":27.478,"body":"So I'm excited to have you on."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":27.534,"endTime":29.114,"body":"Thank you so much for jumping in."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":29.302,"endTime":29.994,"body":"Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":30.042,"endTime":30.842,"body":"Happy to be here."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":30.906,"endTime":34.794,"body":"Actually been following your work from the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":30.906,"endTime":34.794,"body":"sides for quite some time, and it's always"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":34.842,"endTime":37.978,"body":"nice to talk to someone that actually"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":34.842,"endTime":37.978,"body":"understands the space and knows what they're"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":37.994,"endTime":38.434,"body":"talking about."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":38.482,"endTime":40.27,"body":"So, yeah, happy to be here."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":40.81,"endTime":41.698,"body":"It's a wild space."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":41.754,"endTime":44.186,"body":"Honestly, the privacy world, I feel like it's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":44.218,"endTime":48.522,"body":"polarizing to everyone outside of it and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":44.218,"endTime":48.522,"body":"polarizing to everyone inside of it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":48.546,"endTime":53.33,"body":"So being able to find a little bit of a calm"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":48.546,"endTime":53.33,"body":"discussion and nuance around, really anything"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":53.37,"endTime":54.786,"body":"in this space is tricky."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":54.818,"endTime":57.058,"body":"So I think that we're going to be able to do"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":57.074,"endTime":61.966,"body":"that today, answer some easy questions, some"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":57.074,"endTime":61.966,"body":"hard questions, and really dive into what"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":61.998,"endTime":66.142,"body":"Proton Wallet is, which to get right into the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":61.998,"endTime":66.142,"body":"meat, because I know you're limited on time."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":66.286,"endTime":69.646,"body":"This announcement of Proton Wallet, I think,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":66.286,"endTime":69.646,"body":"really blindsided a lot of people in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":69.678,"endTime":70.038,"body":"space."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":70.134,"endTime":71.574,"body":"I'm sure you were working on it with some,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":71.622,"endTime":75.758,"body":"some bitcoiner, since especially a lot of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":71.622,"endTime":75.758,"body":"language used is very kind of, kind of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":75.774,"endTime":76.622,"body":"bitcoiner."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":76.766,"endTime":79.358,"body":"But I didn't see a bitcoin wallet being"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":79.374,"endTime":82.598,"body":"integrated into Proton as something that was"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":79.374,"endTime":82.598,"body":"on your roadmap at all."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":82.734,"endTime":87.542,"body":"So to really kind of get rolling, why did you"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":82.734,"endTime":87.542,"body":"decide to build a bitcoin wallet, and what's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":87.566,"endTime":89.25,"body":"the history that led up to this choice?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":90.44,"endTime":97.224,"body":"Yeah, it's kind of funny that people"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":90.44,"endTime":97.224,"body":"didn't really expect it because we've had the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":97.352,"endTime":100.576,"body":"Reddit and the Twitter accounts for ages."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":100.768,"endTime":104.992,"body":"In fact, we've been considering, let's say,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":105.136,"endTime":109.02,"body":"launching something in this space since"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":105.136,"endTime":109.02,"body":"probably as early as 2017."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":109.8,"endTime":114.992,"body":"But Proton being Proton and being quite"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":109.8,"endTime":114.992,"body":"cautious, we took our time to get here."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":115.056,"endTime":118.14,"body":"We wanted to do it at the right moment, in the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":115.056,"endTime":118.14,"body":"right way."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":119.72,"endTime":123.256,"body":"If you think about Protons history and you go"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":119.72,"endTime":123.256,"body":"back really to the beginning."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":123.288,"endTime":126.18,"body":"So this is 2014 at the moment of our"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":123.288,"endTime":126.18,"body":"crowdfunding."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":126.92,"endTime":130.22,"body":"Bitcoin has always been something that's been"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":126.92,"endTime":130.22,"body":"on our radar."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":130.64,"endTime":137.664,"body":"And people tend to say that the experiences"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":130.64,"endTime":137.664,"body":"you go through when you're young color the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":137.672,"endTime":138.66,"body":"rest of your life."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":139.0,"endTime":140.744,"body":"I think it's the same for businesses as well,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":140.792,"endTime":141.86,"body":"the same for companies."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":142.8,"endTime":145.344,"body":"A company's early experience with the world"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":145.512,"endTime":149.18,"body":"tends to actually also color the way that they"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":145.512,"endTime":149.18,"body":"see the world."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":149.95,"endTime":155.038,"body":"In Proton's case, one of our early experiences"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":149.95,"endTime":155.038,"body":"was probably two weeks after the launch of our"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":155.054,"endTime":160.158,"body":"crowdfunding, getting blocked by PayPal, and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":155.054,"endTime":160.158,"body":"that could have been it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":160.294,"endTime":165.246,"body":"Had that not gotten resolved, probably Proton,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":160.294,"endTime":165.246,"body":"as we remember today and know today wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":165.278,"endTime":166.27,"body":"actually exist."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":166.43,"endTime":170.438,"body":"So I would say our viewpoint of the world was"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":170.494,"endTime":176.286,"body":"really impacted by this early near death"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":170.494,"endTime":176.286,"body":"experience that really made us think a bit"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":176.318,"endTime":176.858,"body":"more."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":177.014,"endTime":179.794,"body":"So something that's always been sort of on the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":179.802,"endTime":183.762,"body":"back of our minds for, you know, maybe it's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":179.802,"endTime":183.762,"body":"reasonable or not reasonable, but, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":183.786,"endTime":188.81,"body":"given our past experiences, quite"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":183.786,"endTime":188.81,"body":"understandable has always been we are in"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":188.89,"endTime":189.95,"body":"privacy space."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":190.45,"endTime":194.346,"body":"We are building something that actually the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":194.378,"endTime":196.186,"body":"established powers the world don't like."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":196.258,"endTime":198.274,"body":"Whether it's governments, whether it's Google,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":198.322,"endTime":202.942,"body":"whether it's Apple, you know, whether it's the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":198.322,"endTime":202.942,"body":"financial sector in general, they're not for"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":202.966,"endTime":206.73,"body":"privacy because it takes power away from them"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":202.966,"endTime":206.73,"body":"and returns it to the consumer."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":208.99,"endTime":212.886,"body":"It's, in fact, quite easy to kill Proton"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":208.99,"endTime":212.886,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":212.998,"endTime":217.17,"body":"You take us off of PayPal, you take us off of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":212.998,"endTime":217.17,"body":"the credit cards, it's game over."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":217.55,"endTime":222.966,"body":"And that has always felt to me, very"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":217.55,"endTime":222.966,"body":"vulnerable because it fundamentally threatens"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":223.118,"endTime":229.842,"body":"protons mission and what we want to achieve"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":223.118,"endTime":229.842,"body":"for privacy and for the world really been a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":229.866,"endTime":233.034,"body":"problem that for the past decade we have"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":229.866,"endTime":233.034,"body":"wanted to address."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":233.202,"endTime":237.89,"body":"So proton wallet, first and foremost, is kind"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":233.202,"endTime":237.89,"body":"of a step in that direction."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":238.01,"endTime":245.298,"body":"What it's trying to do is create an easy way"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":238.01,"endTime":245.298,"body":"for the vast majority of the proton community,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":245.434,"endTime":251.594,"body":"which, to be honest, isn't as tech savvy as it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":245.434,"endTime":251.594,"body":"used to be five or even ten years ago, and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":251.722,"endTime":257.186,"body":"give them a means to adopt alternative ways of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":251.722,"endTime":257.186,"body":"transferring value online, which is not really"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":257.218,"endTime":260.418,"body":"linked to centralized institutions, which we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":257.218,"endTime":260.418,"body":"know, in the long run, are not going to be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":260.434,"endTime":262.141,"body":"friendly to proton in our mission."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":262.325,"endTime":265.021,"body":"So this is really, you know, take a step back"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":265.045,"endTime":269.709,"body":"when you zoom out the high level problem that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":265.045,"endTime":269.709,"body":"we're trying to fix."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":269.829,"endTime":274.277,"body":"And the reason why Proton, which a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":269.829,"endTime":274.277,"body":"people wouldn't expect to be interested in"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":274.293,"endTime":276.941,"body":"crypto, has decided that this is a step that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":274.293,"endTime":276.941,"body":"we need to take."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":277.045,"endTime":279.541,"body":"So this is precisely the risk that we want to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":277.045,"endTime":279.541,"body":"mitigate."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":279.725,"endTime":286.489,"body":"And it's really informed by our historical"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":279.725,"endTime":286.489,"body":"life experiences from the early days of 2014."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":288.17,"endTime":292.154,"body":"So the real ideal is that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":288.17,"endTime":292.154,"body":"proton wallet, while it does just serve as a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":292.162,"endTime":297.482,"body":"broader piece of the bitcoin ecosystem and a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":292.162,"endTime":297.482,"body":"broader piece of the proton suite of tools,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":297.666,"endTime":301.922,"body":"it's furthering that mission of making sure"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":297.666,"endTime":301.922,"body":"that people can actually pay for goods and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":301.946,"endTime":306.274,"body":"services that I think use the phrase the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":301.946,"endTime":306.274,"body":"powers that be, which is a good one."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":306.362,"endTime":309.506,"body":"Governments generally don't want people to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":306.362,"endTime":309.506,"body":"have access to."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":309.578,"endTime":312.33,"body":"And that's not because obviously, Proton is"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":309.578,"endTime":312.33,"body":"doing anything illegal."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":312.37,"endTime":314.258,"body":"It totally exists within a legal framework."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":314.354,"endTime":316.542,"body":"It's providing something that is widely viewed"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":316.566,"endTime":317.934,"body":"as a human right in privacy."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":318.062,"endTime":319.542,"body":"But you want to make sure that people have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":319.566,"endTime":323.47,"body":"access to actually paying for that service"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":319.566,"endTime":323.47,"body":"with money."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":323.55,"endTime":328.086,"body":"Bitcoin in this instance, rather than just"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":323.55,"endTime":328.086,"body":"paying with their data, which is the paradigm"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":328.118,"endTime":329.406,"body":"that a lot of people are used to."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":329.518,"endTime":330.518,"body":"It's a really interesting one."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":330.574,"endTime":334.694,"body":"I just viewed it from the broad perspective of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":330.574,"endTime":334.694,"body":"the bitcoin ecosystem and not as much an idea"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":334.702,"endTime":336.69,"body":"of what proton needs it for."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":337.03,"endTime":337.918,"body":"Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":338.014,"endTime":341.982,"body":"And Proton is also not a company or not an"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":342.006,"endTime":346.262,"body":"organization, or even not even a nonprofit,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":342.006,"endTime":346.262,"body":"let's say, that is interested in the short"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":346.326,"endTime":348.29,"body":"term optimizations of and that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":348.33,"endTime":348.77,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":348.89,"endTime":353.842,"body":"You know, um, actually our move towards a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":348.89,"endTime":353.842,"body":"foundation structure is, in fact, to position"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":353.906,"endTime":360.026,"body":"proton as something that, you know, can be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":353.906,"endTime":360.026,"body":"here, 1020, 30, 50, you know, 100 years or"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":360.058,"endTime":361.306,"body":"more into the future."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":361.498,"endTime":365.386,"body":"And the core thing that we want to solve is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":365.418,"endTime":366.986,"body":"actually the question of resilience."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":367.138,"endTime":371.09,"body":"Uh, and if Proton is to be here, you know, 100"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":371.13,"endTime":375.986,"body":"years from now, what is going to be very, very"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":371.13,"endTime":375.986,"body":"important is to begin to remove the single"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":376.018,"endTime":376.97,"body":"points of failure."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":377.13,"endTime":380.066,"body":"And payments today is one of the few remaining"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":380.098,"endTime":383.418,"body":"single points of failure that exists still in"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":380.098,"endTime":383.418,"body":"infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":383.594,"endTime":386.842,"body":"And that's why it's an interesting problem for"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":383.594,"endTime":386.842,"body":"us to work on."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":386.986,"endTime":389.19,"body":"And this is kind of an important step for us"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":386.986,"endTime":389.19,"body":"to take."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":389.49,"endTime":395.098,"body":"So it's not because we're bitcoin maxis or"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":389.49,"endTime":395.098,"body":"because we think we can make a buck out of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":395.114,"endTime":395.506,"body":"crypto."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":395.578,"endTime":397.554,"body":"It's because we think, actually, in the long"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":397.602,"endTime":399.258,"body":"run, it's something that we need."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":399.354,"endTime":401.59,"body":"If you look forward further down the road."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":402.02,"endTime":403.492,"body":"Yeah, and I definitely agree"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":402.02,"endTime":403.492,"body":"with that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":403.516,"endTime":407.228,"body":"I think that's been one of the long standing"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":403.516,"endTime":407.228,"body":"things that has set proton apart, is just the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":407.244,"endTime":411.436,"body":"acceptance of bitcoin, because there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":407.244,"endTime":411.436,"body":"of people who either they're not able to have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":411.468,"endTime":417.092,"body":"access to kind of legacy financial rails, or"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":411.468,"endTime":417.092,"body":"they obviously want to have a way to at least"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":417.116,"endTime":421.38,"body":"be pseudonymous when purchasing services like"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":417.116,"endTime":421.38,"body":"Proton or really purchasing anything."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":421.5,"endTime":425.788,"body":"I mean, it's the case when I'm paying for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":421.5,"endTime":425.788,"body":"anything, I'm going to pay in the most privacy"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":425.844,"endTime":430.468,"body":"preserving way, no matter what it is, if it's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":425.844,"endTime":430.468,"body":"a sandwich or a coffee or if it's, uh,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":430.524,"endTime":431.06,"body":"something that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":431.1,"endTime":433.172,"body":"That is something I truly need to be anonymous"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":433.236,"endTime":436.516,"body":"it, it deserves the same kind of payment"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":433.236,"endTime":436.516,"body":"rails, especially ones that are censorship"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":436.548,"endTime":440.86,"body":"resistant, which is definitely where I can"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":436.548,"endTime":440.86,"body":"see, see bitcoin fitting in there."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":441.02,"endTime":445.812,"body":"I think one of the things that surprised me"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":441.02,"endTime":445.812,"body":"the most and a lot of people in the privacy"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":445.876,"endTime":450.556,"body":"space or in like the, the kind of privacy"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":445.876,"endTime":450.556,"body":"cryptocurrency space like Monero was just"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":450.588,"endTime":450.876,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":450.948,"endTime":453.66,"body":"I mean, obviously bitcoin is not private."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":453.74,"endTime":455.4,"body":"It's not private by default."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":455.71,"endTime":460.438,"body":"And it has more than its fair share of issues"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":460.534,"endTime":462.85,"body":"with tracking and surveillance today."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":463.27,"endTime":464.926,"body":"And I think that was part of why it was so"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":464.958,"endTime":468.702,"body":"surprising was that the, I mean, obviously the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":464.958,"endTime":468.702,"body":"mantra of proton right now is private by"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":468.726,"endTime":470.99,"body":"default and bitcoin doesnt fit that mantra."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":471.03,"endTime":472.83,"body":"So I think theres a lot of confusion around"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":472.91,"endTime":473.798,"body":"why bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":473.854,"endTime":475.662,"body":"You touched on a lot of it, I think, in your"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":475.686,"endTime":477.038,"body":"response to the previous question."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":477.174,"endTime":479.174,"body":"But maybe you can just expand on that when"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":479.222,"endTime":484.976,"body":"viewed in the light of the lack of privacy in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":479.222,"endTime":484.976,"body":"bitcoin, why you chose bitcoin specifically"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":485.008,"endTime":486.384,"body":"and not something we're privacy preserving."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":486.432,"endTime":489.96,"body":"And then do you have plans to address bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":490.0,"endTime":492.072,"body":"privacy in proton wallet in the future?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":492.256,"endTime":493.74,"body":"Yeah, that's a really good question."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":494.08,"endTime":497.096,"body":"And I think we can go back to history about"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":497.128,"endTime":497.616,"body":"this again."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":497.688,"endTime":499.8,"body":"And in fact, there's a very, very clear"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":499.84,"endTime":504.616,"body":"analogy between kind of the question you've"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":499.84,"endTime":504.616,"body":"asked and the question that I asked myself ten"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":504.648,"endTime":509.392,"body":"years ago when starting out to build proton"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":504.648,"endTime":509.392,"body":"mail, because Proton at the beginning was"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":509.416,"endTime":513.683,"body":"protonmail and it became proton, let's say"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":509.416,"endTime":513.683,"body":"probably along that journey."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":513.711,"endTime":514.319,"body":"Journey."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":514.939,"endTime":517.399,"body":"What's the analogy to protonmail?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":518.019,"endTime":523.955,"body":"If you asked me today, or actually even ten"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":518.019,"endTime":523.955,"body":"years ago to build the most secure"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":523.987,"endTime":530.331,"body":"communication system, I wouldn't have built"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":523.987,"endTime":530.331,"body":"email, actually, I would have built signal or"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":530.355,"endTime":531.479,"body":"something like signal."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":533.299,"endTime":536.251,"body":"Why did we build email ten years ago?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":536.395,"endTime":540.199,"body":"Because it for sure wasn't the most private"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":536.395,"endTime":540.199,"body":"way to communicate."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":541.259,"endTime":545.774,"body":"The reason we did it is because our approach"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":541.259,"endTime":545.774,"body":"to this problem is actually a little bit"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":545.822,"endTime":546.41,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":546.91,"endTime":550.142,"body":"What we believed in 2014, and actually what I"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":550.166,"endTime":555.838,"body":"still believe today, is that email is actually"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":550.166,"endTime":555.838,"body":"the most successful communication system that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":555.854,"endTime":557.25,"body":"has ever been devised."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":558.03,"endTime":560.63,"body":"Why is it so good and so hard to displace?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":560.79,"endTime":565.246,"body":"Because, well, one is decentralized, it's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":560.79,"endTime":565.246,"body":"federated."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":565.438,"endTime":567.61,"body":"Anyone can join the network if they want."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":567.91,"endTime":569.47,"body":"It is all controlled by centralized"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":569.51,"endTime":570.298,"body":"organization."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":570.494,"endTime":573.122,"body":"So it has these properties that make it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":573.146,"endTime":574.898,"body":"actually a very strong network effect."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":575.034,"endTime":577.61,"body":"And this is why email tends to be so dominant."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":577.77,"endTime":581.59,"body":"But actually, the privacy of email, it really"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":577.77,"endTime":581.59,"body":"sucks."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":581.93,"endTime":586.546,"body":"It's built on SMTP, which is built in 1980s"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":581.93,"endTime":586.546,"body":"and is terrible for privacy."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":586.578,"endTime":589.31,"body":"It doesn't even have encryption that can be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":586.578,"endTime":589.31,"body":"built in very easily."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":589.89,"endTime":598.24,"body":"So actually, email was in some ways also a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":589.89,"endTime":598.24,"body":"very, very strange place for Proton to start"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":598.58,"endTime":601.38,"body":"if we were really focused on privacy."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":601.54,"endTime":602.812,"body":"So how do you reconcile this?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":602.836,"endTime":604.02,"body":"Because it seems like a contradiction."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":604.1,"endTime":604.72,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":605.34,"endTime":607.96,"body":"And the way that we thought of a problem is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":605.34,"endTime":607.96,"body":"the following."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":608.5,"endTime":615.332,"body":"For a proton to best improve the state of the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":608.5,"endTime":615.332,"body":"world, actually building a new version of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":615.356,"endTime":617.66,"body":"email, that wasn't the way to do it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":617.82,"endTime":620.132,"body":"And it's not the way to do it because it'd be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":620.156,"endTime":626.156,"body":"extremely difficult to get others to adopt our"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":620.156,"endTime":626.156,"body":"new email and do it in big enough numbers to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":626.188,"endTime":629.422,"body":"overcome the network effect of the existing"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":626.188,"endTime":629.422,"body":"email ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":629.486,"endTime":631.678,"body":"So it simply isn't going to work."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":631.854,"endTime":634.086,"body":"So what is the second best alternative?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":634.158,"endTime":639.41,"body":"Well, the second best alternative is actually"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":634.158,"endTime":639.41,"body":"to improve the state of privacy of email."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":639.75,"endTime":644.342,"body":"So you build on top of email and existing"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":639.75,"endTime":644.342,"body":"network effects, but you actually make it more"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":644.366,"endTime":644.93,"body":"private."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":645.71,"endTime":648.462,"body":"This is really what protonmail tried to do,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":648.526,"endTime":655.0,"body":"and I think in large part has achieved up to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":648.526,"endTime":655.0,"body":"the limits in which, which the SMTP protocol"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":655.74,"endTime":657.292,"body":"is able to address."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":657.396,"endTime":659.988,"body":"So it cannot solve all privacy issues, but it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":660.004,"endTime":662.08,"body":"does solve, let's say, quite a few of them."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":662.5,"endTime":665.196,"body":"And when it comes to fighting for financial"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":665.268,"endTime":668.96,"body":"freedom, our perspective is pretty similar."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":669.34,"endTime":672.1,"body":"If you were to ask me today to build the most"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":672.14,"endTime":675.644,"body":"secure digital money, I would not build"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":672.14,"endTime":675.644,"body":"bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":675.772,"endTime":679.71,"body":"In fact, what I would build probably would"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":675.772,"endTime":679.71,"body":"look pretty similar to Monero."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":679.82,"endTime":680.47,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":681.25,"endTime":682.434,"body":"But then why bitcoin?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":682.522,"endTime":684.85,"body":"Well, bitcoin already has critical mass."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":684.97,"endTime":687.018,"body":"It has strong network effects."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":687.154,"endTime":692.89,"body":"So if our goal is to go out there and get"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":687.154,"endTime":692.89,"body":"decentralized money in the hands of millions,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":693.05,"endTime":697.282,"body":"well, trying to replace bitcoin could be a bit"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":693.05,"endTime":697.282,"body":"like trying to replace email."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":697.426,"endTime":701.114,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":697.426,"endTime":701.114,"body":"It's not impossible, but at this stage, most"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":701.162,"endTime":703.226,"body":"would say that it's probably improbable."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":703.418,"endTime":705.618,"body":"So then the approach, if you take the analogy"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":705.634,"endTime":709.15,"body":"to protonmail, is actually that you don't"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":705.634,"endTime":709.15,"body":"replace bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":709.31,"endTime":714.302,"body":"The next best thing that you can do is perhaps"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":709.31,"endTime":714.302,"body":"to try to improve the privacy of bitcoin as"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":714.326,"endTime":715.13,"body":"much as possible."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":715.51,"endTime":718.23,"body":"So this is the reason why we decided to start"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":718.27,"endTime":719.81,"body":"this journey with bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":720.15,"endTime":722.974,"body":"And a lot of people said, oh, it looks so"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":723.022,"endTime":723.502,"body":"strange."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":723.606,"endTime":725.918,"body":"But the parallel is exactly the same with the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":725.934,"endTime":728.43,"body":"early days of proton beginning with the proton"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":725.934,"endTime":728.43,"body":"mail."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":728.59,"endTime":732.182,"body":"Yeah, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":728.59,"endTime":732.182,"body":"honestly a fantastic way to make the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":732.206,"endTime":735.754,"body":"comparison and connects a lot of dots that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":732.206,"endTime":735.754,"body":"hadn't made sense to me yet when looking at"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":735.762,"endTime":739.722,"body":"the announcement and using Proton wallet was"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":735.762,"endTime":739.722,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":739.826,"endTime":744.058,"body":"I mean, you'll talk quite a bit about network"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":739.826,"endTime":744.058,"body":"effect in the kind of literature that you"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":744.074,"endTime":748.43,"body":"wrote around it, the blog posts, the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":744.074,"endTime":748.43,"body":"introductions within Proton wallet."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":748.85,"endTime":749.706,"body":"So that clicked."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":749.738,"endTime":752.706,"body":"But that connection back to email of saying"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":752.778,"endTime":756.242,"body":"we're going to take the thing with the biggest"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":752.778,"endTime":756.242,"body":"reach and the biggest network effect, and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":756.266,"endTime":762.116,"body":"we're going to try to make it able to be used"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":756.266,"endTime":762.116,"body":"by the average person with privacy that, that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":762.148,"endTime":762.852,"body":"fits for sure."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":762.916,"endTime":765.452,"body":"And that's definitely, it's an ideal goal."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":765.476,"endTime":770.252,"body":"It's certainly a hard one in the bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":765.476,"endTime":770.252,"body":"space, since privacy is, is very tricky when"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":770.276,"endTime":772.132,"body":"the chain is transparent by default."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":772.276,"endTime":773.972,"body":"And we've seen that it can get even more"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":773.996,"endTime":778.692,"body":"difficult when specific tools are taken down"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":773.996,"endTime":778.692,"body":"by governments with things like the samurai"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":778.716,"endTime":780.56,"body":"wallet indictment that happened in April."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":781.22,"endTime":783.38,"body":"And there's actually an interesting tie"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":783.42,"endTime":787.62,"body":"between those two things in that I know some"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":783.42,"endTime":787.62,"body":"people had noticed on a GitHub repo that y'all"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":787.66,"endTime":791.632,"body":"had that there was a kind of a work in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":787.66,"endTime":791.632,"body":"progress, planned implementation of Samurai"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":791.656,"endTime":792.648,"body":"wallet whirlpool."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":792.784,"endTime":794.632,"body":"Was that the approach that you were going to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":794.656,"endTime":797.68,"body":"take to start building in better privacy into"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":794.656,"endTime":797.68,"body":"proton wallet?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":797.84,"endTime":803.952,"body":"And if so, what's kind of your next steps for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":797.84,"endTime":803.952,"body":"privacy on bitcoin now that samurai wallet"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":803.976,"endTime":808.02,"body":"whirlpool isn't usable pending the trial that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":803.976,"endTime":808.02,"body":"they're undergoing?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":808.44,"endTime":810.288,"body":"Yeah, I guess that's the view of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":808.44,"endTime":810.288,"body":"open source."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":810.384,"endTime":811.88,"body":"Anything that we do is in the codes."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":811.92,"endTime":812.848,"body":"People can see it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":812.944,"endTime":814.128,"body":"So, in fact, you're correct."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":814.184,"endTime":816.368,"body":"And I think people that saw that made the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":816.384,"endTime":820.532,"body":"right conclusion, which is the first version"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":816.384,"endTime":820.532,"body":"of Proton Wallet that we were planning to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":820.556,"endTime":825.508,"body":"launch, actually was supposed to come out with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":820.556,"endTime":825.508,"body":"coin joint support, and that was supposed to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":825.524,"endTime":826.8,"body":"be in the initial release."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":827.26,"endTime":829.052,"body":"Now, you know, I know."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":829.116,"endTime":833.22,"body":"And actually, for listeners that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":829.116,"endTime":833.22,"body":"maybe know or don't know, there have been some"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":833.26,"endTime":836.628,"body":"recent developments on the legal front that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":833.26,"endTime":836.628,"body":"made that impossible."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":836.684,"endTime":836.948,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":837.004,"endTime":839.748,"body":"Basically, everybody that's doing some sort of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":839.844,"endTime":846.676,"body":"coin mixing is either, you know, a, in jail"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":839.844,"endTime":846.676,"body":"or, you know, b, under threat of being in jail"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":846.788,"endTime":849.32,"body":"or being legally prosecuted in some ways."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":849.7,"endTime":852.96,"body":"And Proton, given the fact that we have 100"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":853.0,"endTime":858.968,"body":"million accounts and we're servicing users all"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":853.0,"endTime":858.968,"body":"around the world, we are not in a position to,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":859.024,"endTime":865.7,"body":"let's say, be the test case of whether or not"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":859.024,"endTime":865.7,"body":"coin mixing is legal or not legal."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":866.08,"endTime":870.584,"body":"So when that situation developed, and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":866.08,"endTime":870.584,"body":"obviously our lawyers are watching"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":870.632,"endTime":874.1,"body":"developments in the space very carefully, we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":870.632,"endTime":874.1,"body":"get two options."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":874.92,"endTime":881.574,"body":"Option one was to scrap the wallet project"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":874.92,"endTime":881.574,"body":"entirely and not release it, and option two"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":881.702,"endTime":887.926,"body":"was to actually release it, but without the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":881.702,"endTime":887.926,"body":"coin joint support on it, and then maybe wait"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":887.958,"endTime":893.43,"body":"and see if the environment around that could"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":887.958,"endTime":893.43,"body":"change in the coming months or years as those"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":893.47,"endTime":896.37,"body":"court cases work their way through the courts."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":896.67,"endTime":898.35,"body":"And obviously, we opted for the latter"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":898.39,"endTime":898.854,"body":"approach."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":898.982,"endTime":900.758,"body":"It wasn't our preferred approach, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":900.774,"endTime":904.382,"body":"the approach that we wanted to do at the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":900.774,"endTime":904.382,"body":"beginning, but it was actually the only legal"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":904.406,"endTime":904.814,"body":"possibility."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":904.902,"endTime":910.072,"body":"Given that all that has happened now, do I"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":910.096,"endTime":915.832,"body":"think it's the right choice?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":910.096,"endTime":915.832,"body":"Well, the future is hard to predict, but if"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":915.856,"endTime":921.74,"body":"you read between the lines and look at what's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":915.856,"endTime":921.74,"body":"going on with the SEC and also DOJ in the US,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":922.48,"endTime":928.992,"body":"actually, this whole environment could just be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":922.48,"endTime":928.992,"body":"one election away from changing and having"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":929.016,"endTime":930.22,"body":"this be viable again."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":931.65,"endTime":934.178,"body":"It's hard to predict, but given the choice of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":934.194,"endTime":938.434,"body":"not releasing the wallet versus releasing it,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":934.194,"endTime":938.434,"body":"I still think releasing it was the right move."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":938.562,"endTime":943.562,"body":"But for obvious reasons, we had to disable"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":938.562,"endTime":943.562,"body":"some of these features that currently are"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":943.586,"endTime":944.63,"body":"under legal attack."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":945.13,"endTime":948.386,"body":"It makes the timeline make a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":945.13,"endTime":948.386,"body":"lot more sense, because that was."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":948.498,"endTime":952.33,"body":"I think my initial surprise was there's no"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":948.498,"endTime":952.33,"body":"privacy features right now within Proton"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":952.37,"endTime":952.866,"body":"wallet."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":952.978,"endTime":955.418,"body":"But then when people did unearth that kind of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":955.434,"endTime":960.042,"body":"work in progress, plan support for Whirlpool,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":955.434,"endTime":960.042,"body":"and now hearing from you that that was planned"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":960.066,"endTime":963.898,"body":"for the initial release, that makes it makes"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":960.066,"endTime":963.898,"body":"it a lot clearer, because I think that was the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":963.954,"endTime":967.386,"body":"other most confusing part, is there are some"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":963.954,"endTime":967.386,"body":"ways to gain privacy on bitcoin, but none of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":967.418,"endTime":968.714,"body":"those were baked into proton."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":968.762,"endTime":970.794,"body":"But, I mean, that happening three months ago,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":970.882,"endTime":975.37,"body":"I'm sure, was a wild pivot for y'all, having"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":970.882,"endTime":975.37,"body":"to decide what to do, how to handle it, and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":975.49,"endTime":979.298,"body":"ultimately still to release, even if you"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":975.49,"endTime":979.298,"body":"weren't able to ship the privacy features that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":979.314,"endTime":979.626,"body":"you wanted."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":979.658,"endTime":982.602,"body":"Initially, yeah, we had it in there,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":979.658,"endTime":982.602,"body":"and then we pulled it out."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":982.666,"endTime":985.058,"body":"And the reason we pulled it out was because,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":982.666,"endTime":985.058,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":985.154,"endTime":989.37,"body":"Well, yeah, the way it works is there was"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":985.154,"endTime":989.37,"body":"legal opinion, right, written by a. By a top"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":989.41,"endTime":997.376,"body":"tier law firm in the, you know, in the US,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":989.41,"endTime":997.376,"body":"which protons board, its foundation now went"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":997.408,"endTime":1001.96,"body":"out to commission to kind of understand the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":997.408,"endTime":1001.96,"body":"legal exposure of the risk that we would run"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1003.032,"body":"by doing this."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1003.216,"endTime":1005.168,"body":"And basically, there is way too much"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1005.184,"endTime":1006.82,"body":"uncertainty in this space right now."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1007.48,"endTime":1008.64,"body":"We'll see what happens in November."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1008.68,"endTime":1010.304,"body":"We'll see what happens next year."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1010.352,"endTime":1011.86,"body":"Everything could be completely different."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1012.24,"endTime":1017.568,"body":"But, yeah, I think for now, it would have been"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1012.24,"endTime":1017.568,"body":"too irresponsible to go forward, given all"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1017.584,"endTime":1018.58,"body":"that has happened."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1018.88,"endTime":1023.248,"body":"It's an unfortunate reality,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1018.88,"endTime":1023.248,"body":"but it's definitely something that's just kind"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1023.264,"endTime":1027.056,"body":"of the state of things, how it is today, and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1023.264,"endTime":1027.056,"body":"hopeful that as well, that will change quickly"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1027.088,"endTime":1032.248,"body":"in the US and that this case against the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1027.088,"endTime":1032.248,"body":"samurai wallet devs in particular, will turn"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1032.264,"endTime":1033.48,"body":"out to be a positive precedent."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1033.52,"endTime":1034.144,"body":"It really could."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1034.192,"endTime":1038.464,"body":"And I'd urge, just as an aside, anyone who"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1034.192,"endTime":1038.464,"body":"wants to learn more or consider donating to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1038.472,"endTime":1042.136,"body":"the samurai wallet devs defense to go to p two"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1038.472,"endTime":1042.136,"body":"pwrights.org dot."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1042.328,"endTime":1047.312,"body":"Some people I know well are kind of helping to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1042.328,"endTime":1047.312,"body":"fund the defense and ensure that they get the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1047.336,"endTime":1052.084,"body":"best possible legal care both for themselves"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1047.336,"endTime":1052.084,"body":"and to hopefully set a positive precedent in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1052.092,"endTime":1056.04,"body":"this case that can enable things like samurai"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1052.092,"endTime":1056.04,"body":"wallet, whirlpool in Proton wallet."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1056.86,"endTime":1059.004,"body":"Expanding on that, take just a little bit"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1056.86,"endTime":1059.004,"body":"more."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1059.092,"endTime":1063.844,"body":"Are there any other kind of future privacy"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1059.092,"endTime":1063.844,"body":"improvements in proton wallet or in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1063.852,"endTime":1067.596,"body":"bitcoin space that excite you?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1063.852,"endTime":1067.596,"body":"Maybe things like silent payments for on chain"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1067.628,"endTime":1071.308,"body":"payments or bolt twelve with lightning"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1067.628,"endTime":1071.308,"body":"support, which I know that you have some plans"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1071.324,"endTime":1074.804,"body":"for lightning support that, that we'll"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1071.324,"endTime":1074.804,"body":"probably touch on later, but anything on kind"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1074.812,"endTime":1078.772,"body":"of the privacy front in bitcoin that, that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1074.812,"endTime":1078.772,"body":"you're excited to see and maybe to integrate"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1078.796,"endTime":1080.6,"body":"into proton wallet in the near future."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1081.24,"endTime":1085.152,"body":"Now, the thing that's coming the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1081.24,"endTime":1085.152,"body":"soonest is probably going to be coin control."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1085.336,"endTime":1090.704,"body":"And I think this is something that actually at"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1085.336,"endTime":1090.704,"body":"Proton, because we do support bitcoin by"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1090.752,"endTime":1093.76,"body":"email, we can do a better user experience."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1093.88,"endTime":1095.808,"body":"Because today when you do coin control, you"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1095.824,"endTime":1099.984,"body":"have to filter among dozens of bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1095.824,"endTime":1099.984,"body":"addresses that you don't recognize."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1100.032,"endTime":1105.34,"body":"You can't figure out what transaction is what"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1100.032,"endTime":1105.34,"body":"with bitcoin via email."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1105.64,"endTime":1110.552,"body":"In fact, you'll see the emails so you'll know"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1105.64,"endTime":1110.552,"body":"who sends you coins and then you can do coin"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1110.576,"endTime":1111.66,"body":"control a lot better."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1112.26,"endTime":1114.28,"body":"That is coming pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1114.98,"endTime":1117.492,"body":"What we also want to do, of course, is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1114.98,"endTime":1117.492,"body":"lightning."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1117.636,"endTime":1123.676,"body":"But lightning, as a lot of people know, it's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1117.636,"endTime":1123.676,"body":"extremely difficult today to do, let's say, a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1123.708,"endTime":1127.4,"body":"good user experience on lightning in a non"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1123.708,"endTime":1127.4,"body":"custodial way."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1128.02,"endTime":1132.612,"body":"If you want to do it in a custodial way,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1128.02,"endTime":1132.612,"body":"that's banking licenses, that's money"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1132.636,"endTime":1135.52,"body":"transmitting licenses, that's a whole other"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1132.636,"endTime":1135.52,"body":"ballgame."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1136.5,"endTime":1138.7,"body":"I do believe that lightning is eventually"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1136.5,"endTime":1138.7,"body":"going to come."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1138.78,"endTime":1139.452,"body":"It's inevitable."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1139.516,"endTime":1140.868,"body":"It's something that we believe in and we want"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1140.884,"endTime":1141.8,"body":"to support it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1142.1,"endTime":1145.732,"body":"But it's probably not a matter of how fast can"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1145.756,"endTime":1146.452,"body":"devs code."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1146.516,"endTime":1149.076,"body":"It's more a question of how fast consumption"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1149.108,"endTime":1152.36,"body":"licenses and legal developments and legal"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1149.108,"endTime":1152.36,"body":"clarity be achieved."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1153.02,"endTime":1155.84,"body":"That is definitely also planned."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1156.14,"endTime":1158.308,"body":"I think you also mentioned, I think the silent"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1158.324,"endTime":1162.644,"body":"payments, you said, right?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1158.324,"endTime":1162.644,"body":"Yeah, yeah, silent payments."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1162.812,"endTime":1165.236,"body":"We of course have followed that quite closely."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1165.268,"endTime":1168.342,"body":"We've been looking into that, uh, as of the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1168.366,"endTime":1171.526,"body":"last time I checked, and maybe it's changed in"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1168.366,"endTime":1171.526,"body":"the past few months and someone will correct"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1171.558,"endTime":1173.694,"body":"me, you know, in the comments of this podcast"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1171.558,"endTime":1173.694,"body":"later."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1173.822,"endTime":1177.998,"body":"But I don't believe it's been merged into a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1173.822,"endTime":1177.998,"body":"bitcoin core yet."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1178.134,"endTime":1182.558,"body":"So, uh, until it actually gets merged and it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1178.134,"endTime":1182.558,"body":"becomes a bit more stable."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1182.694,"endTime":1185.494,"body":"Uh, you know, it's not something that we can"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1182.694,"endTime":1185.494,"body":"immediately adopt."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1185.582,"endTime":1193.448,"body":"And protons philosophy is never, let's say, to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1185.582,"endTime":1193.448,"body":"be the first to implement in new technology"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1193.544,"endTime":1194.34,"body":"per se."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1195.72,"endTime":1198.416,"body":"It's a bit like us getting into a bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1198.448,"endTime":1199.1,"body":"wallet."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1199.8,"endTime":1202.16,"body":"We made a joke on Reddit the other day that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1202.2,"endTime":1207.536,"body":"actually we got to bitcoin later than"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1202.2,"endTime":1207.536,"body":"Blackrock, which is amazing."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1207.568,"endTime":1213.128,"body":"We think about Proton in our position, but we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1207.568,"endTime":1213.128,"body":"tend to be very conservative because there are"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1213.184,"endTime":1217.62,"body":"still risk in selling payments because it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1213.184,"endTime":1217.62,"body":"hasn't been merged and fully tested."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1219.07,"endTime":1221.454,"body":"There are things that could go wrong by"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1219.07,"endTime":1221.454,"body":"implementing that now."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1221.582,"endTime":1225.09,"body":"It's a bit like Alpha or maybe even beta"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1221.582,"endTime":1225.09,"body":"software in a sense."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1226.83,"endTime":1228.49,"body":"It needs time to mature."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1229.27,"endTime":1231.254,"body":"Once it's, let's say, mature and the community"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1231.302,"endTime":1235.542,"body":"has been more comfortable and confident about"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1231.302,"endTime":1235.542,"body":"it, then you could see us implementing that as"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1235.566,"endTime":1236.13,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1237.19,"endTime":1239.15,"body":"We won't be the first, we won't be the last"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1239.19,"endTime":1244.09,"body":"either, but we'll do it when we consider it to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1239.19,"endTime":1244.09,"body":"be, let's say, fully stable and safe."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1244.48,"endTime":1247.024,"body":"Yeah, I only mentioned that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1244.48,"endTime":1247.024,"body":"because I think it could be a really good fit"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1247.072,"endTime":1250.928,"body":"with the paid to email function in Proton"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1247.072,"endTime":1250.928,"body":"because it does allow you to have just a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1250.944,"endTime":1256.288,"body":"static address and would allow you to move"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1250.944,"endTime":1256.288,"body":"away from the pool of GPG signed addresses."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1256.384,"endTime":1262.208,"body":"You could just sign the single silent payment"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1256.384,"endTime":1262.208,"body":"address and any payer could derive new"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1262.224,"endTime":1263.208,"body":"addresses every time."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1263.304,"endTime":1264.752,"body":"But it is very new."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1264.776,"endTime":1267.304,"body":"I mean, there's one wallet that supports it"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1264.776,"endTime":1267.304,"body":"right now."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1267.472,"endTime":1271.24,"body":"The bitcoin improvement proposal itself has"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1267.472,"endTime":1271.24,"body":"been merged in and it's BIP 352."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1271.28,"endTime":1275.192,"body":"But you're right that the, the index"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1271.28,"endTime":1275.192,"body":"functionality in bitcoin core has yet to be"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1275.216,"endTime":1280.392,"body":"merged and a lot of the upstream libraries and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1275.216,"endTime":1280.392,"body":"SDKs are still a work in progress for silent"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1280.416,"endTime":1280.856,"body":"payments."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1280.968,"endTime":1283.144,"body":"Definitely early, but I think could be a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1283.152,"endTime":1284.536,"body":"really good fit for you all down the line."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1284.648,"endTime":1289.688,"body":"Yeah. And of course, we're working"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1284.648,"endTime":1289.688,"body":"together with square on some of the software"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1289.744,"endTime":1294.54,"body":"here together with Jack and his team, which"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1289.744,"endTime":1294.54,"body":"have been frankly fantastic."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1296.92,"endTime":1300.904,"body":"At some point we'll probably pull that up into"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1296.92,"endTime":1300.904,"body":"the upstream as well and get that implemented."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1300.992,"endTime":1303.66,"body":"But it's new, so it'll take a bit of time."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1304.37,"endTime":1305.898,"body":"One little extra clarifying"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1304.37,"endTime":1305.898,"body":"thing on that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1305.914,"endTime":1309.162,"body":"Y'all are using BDK as the backend for proton"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1305.914,"endTime":1309.162,"body":"wallet, correct?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1309.226,"endTime":1309.554,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1309.602,"endTime":1309.786,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1309.818,"endTime":1311.634,"body":"So it's silent payments aren't supported in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1309.818,"endTime":1311.634,"body":"there either."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1311.682,"endTime":1312.122,"body":"That's one thing."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1312.146,"endTime":1314.338,"body":"We're at foundation, we're waiting on silent"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1314.354,"endTime":1317.026,"body":"payment support in BDK before we go to merge"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1314.354,"endTime":1317.026,"body":"that into envoy as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1317.058,"endTime":1318.266,"body":"So I definitely understand."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1318.458,"endTime":1320.754,"body":"Yeah, I think everybody's waiting on"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1318.458,"endTime":1320.754,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1320.882,"endTime":1322.426,"body":"But you know, it's being discussed."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1322.458,"endTime":1322.722,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1322.786,"endTime":1326.978,"body":"And actually, I'm also glad that, in fact, a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1322.786,"endTime":1326.978,"body":"federal security audit of BDK is going to be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1326.994,"endTime":1330.39,"body":"taking place as well later this fall, which I"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1326.994,"endTime":1330.39,"body":"think is necessary for the space."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1330.77,"endTime":1333.458,"body":"So it's a bit like when we did the work with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1330.77,"endTime":1333.458,"body":"open BGP."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1333.514,"endTime":1334.45,"body":"J's right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1334.53,"endTime":1338.358,"body":"Open BGP I believe strongly, even in bitcoin,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1338.454,"endTime":1339.57,"body":"standards are important."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1340.39,"endTime":1342.69,"body":"Core and common libraries are also important."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1343.07,"endTime":1345.822,"body":"And this is like building the railroads."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1345.926,"endTime":1347.79,"body":"That will allow us to colonize this space over"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1347.83,"endTime":1348.198,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1348.294,"endTime":1350.822,"body":"And not just proton, but the space as a whole"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1350.886,"endTime":1352.29,"body":"will do better because of this."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1352.75,"endTime":1353.526,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1353.558,"endTime":1355.094,"body":"And that's one of the really beautiful things"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1355.142,"endTime":1359.174,"body":"about y'all embracing the open source ethos"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1355.142,"endTime":1359.174,"body":"and that being a core part of the bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1359.222,"endTime":1365.762,"body":"space is that every time a large company like"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1359.222,"endTime":1365.762,"body":"proton adopt something like BDK, they start"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1365.786,"endTime":1367.33,"body":"pouring resources into it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1367.49,"endTime":1369.034,"body":"It's a net win for everyone in the space."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1369.082,"endTime":1372.57,"body":"That's one of the things that I really, really"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1369.082,"endTime":1372.57,"body":"appreciate that y'all have stuck to, is making"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1372.61,"endTime":1377.802,"body":"sure that everything you do is open sourced,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1372.61,"endTime":1377.802,"body":"eventually, at least, and that ensures that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1377.906,"endTime":1381.61,"body":"those contributions help a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1377.906,"endTime":1381.61,"body":"people, and not just Proton, which is a huge"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1381.65,"endTime":1382.186,"body":"win."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1382.338,"endTime":1384.27,"body":"Something I'm really, really happy about."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1386.01,"endTime":1391.22,"body":"The question that I'm sure thousands of people"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1386.01,"endTime":1391.22,"body":"on Twitter are waiting to hear from you."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1391.6,"endTime":1394.376,"body":"Will Proton wallet have things other than"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1391.6,"endTime":1394.376,"body":"bitcoin in the future?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1394.448,"endTime":1396.84,"body":"And I don't ask this to get into, like the."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1396.88,"endTime":1399.6,"body":"Like, will x random altcoin be a part of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1399.64,"endTime":1402.936,"body":"Proton wallet?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1399.64,"endTime":1402.936,"body":"But just the way some of the responses were"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1402.968,"endTime":1406.328,"body":"handled on Twitter and on Reddit, I think left"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1402.968,"endTime":1406.328,"body":"people a little bit confused."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1406.464,"endTime":1410.064,"body":"Specifically, my question would be around"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1406.464,"endTime":1410.064,"body":"Monero, but I know that there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1410.072,"endTime":1412.136,"body":"people wondering, like, will this be bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1410.072,"endTime":1412.136,"body":"only?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1412.208,"endTime":1414.744,"body":"Is bitcoin just the start of this?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1412.208,"endTime":1414.744,"body":"Uh, kind of."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1414.752,"endTime":1416.22,"body":"What are your thoughts around that?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1417.26,"endTime":1424.54,"body":"There's a couple of directions that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1417.26,"endTime":1424.54,"body":"we can go, and I think the direction we pick"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1424.7,"endTime":1427.3,"body":"depends a lot on the problem that we're trying"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1424.7,"endTime":1427.3,"body":"to solve."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1427.38,"endTime":1431.316,"body":"And that's always the key thing when building"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1427.38,"endTime":1431.316,"body":"a product, you have to understand what problem"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1431.348,"endTime":1432.476,"body":"you're trying to solve."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1432.668,"endTime":1437.692,"body":"And it's an interesting thing, because let's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1437.716,"endTime":1444.228,"body":"take out the 99% of crypto that is scam,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1437.716,"endTime":1444.228,"body":"because if we're being honest, most of it is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1444.244,"endTime":1453.278,"body":"scams a percent, which is quite a few products"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1444.244,"endTime":1453.278,"body":"that I think are doing good things, but"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1453.414,"endTime":1456.286,"body":"they're all trying to solve different"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1453.414,"endTime":1456.286,"body":"problems."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1456.438,"endTime":1462.27,"body":"And the problem that you solve versus the tool"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1456.438,"endTime":1462.27,"body":"that you use, it can be different."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1462.43,"endTime":1469.35,"body":"So I can think of some use cases for bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1462.43,"endTime":1469.35,"body":"is probably a terrible solution."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1469.47,"endTime":1472.61,"body":"In that sense, bitcoin maybe a ******."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1474.11,"endTime":1476.39,"body":"If we talk about the question of Nero or these"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1476.43,"endTime":1482.814,"body":"other things, it really has to come out of the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1476.43,"endTime":1482.814,"body":"question of what is it that we want to solve?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1482.982,"endTime":1491.03,"body":"And for that, you can't go look at bitcoin or"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1482.982,"endTime":1491.03,"body":"even protons interest in bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1491.07,"endTime":1495.31,"body":"You have to go back a step further and look at"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1491.07,"endTime":1495.31,"body":"protons long term vision."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1495.47,"endTime":1498.77,"body":"And our vision actually is to compete with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1495.47,"endTime":1498.77,"body":"Google and Apple."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1499.91,"endTime":1503.03,"body":"Sounds crazy, but that's what we've been doing"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1499.91,"endTime":1503.03,"body":"for the last ten years and what we'll continue"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1503.07,"endTime":1504.774,"body":"to do for the next ten years and beyond."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1504.862,"endTime":1505.49,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1506.11,"endTime":1512.526,"body":"And if you look at Google Pay, Apple Pay and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1506.11,"endTime":1512.526,"body":"all that that has been done there, it is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1512.558,"endTime":1517.494,"body":"almost inevitable, if we are to build a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1512.558,"endTime":1517.494,"body":"competing ecosystem, that some sort of proton"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1517.542,"endTime":1521.65,"body":"pay integrated in a proton wallet becomes"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1517.542,"endTime":1521.65,"body":"developed."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1521.99,"endTime":1527.77,"body":"And for that reason, I would say that Fiat is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1521.99,"endTime":1527.77,"body":"likely inevitable."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1528.31,"endTime":1533.452,"body":"And this is also somewhat evident if you look"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1528.31,"endTime":1533.452,"body":"at the community reactions."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1533.596,"endTime":1538.78,"body":"There's, of course, the reaction among the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1533.596,"endTime":1538.78,"body":"crypto and bitcoin community, but there's also"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1538.82,"endTime":1543.156,"body":"the reaction among the broader proton"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1538.82,"endTime":1543.156,"body":"community, the vast majority of them who"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1543.188,"endTime":1545.676,"body":"actually don't use crypto or bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1545.828,"endTime":1548.732,"body":"And one of the most vocal requests among our"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1548.756,"endTime":1550.48,"body":"broader community of 100 million people."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1551.18,"endTime":1553.716,"body":"A lot of these people are not on x, they're"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1553.748,"endTime":1556.438,"body":"not on Reddit, they're not on social media."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1556.604,"endTime":1558.25,"body":"They're reaching out to us in other ways."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1558.29,"endTime":1558.87,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1559.41,"endTime":1563.55,"body":"What they're saying is we love the concept of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1563.93,"endTime":1569.114,"body":"a proton wallet, but we like it to work the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1563.93,"endTime":1569.114,"body":"way that a Google wallet or an Apple wallet"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1569.202,"endTime":1570.03,"body":"would work."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1571.05,"endTime":1572.642,"body":"And this is something that we need to take"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1572.666,"endTime":1576.426,"body":"into account as we look at the broader"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1572.666,"endTime":1576.426,"body":"community and how we developed."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1576.538,"endTime":1585.274,"body":"So most likely, we may go to fiat first before"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1576.538,"endTime":1585.274,"body":"we come back to look at the other"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1585.362,"endTime":1592.254,"body":"cryptocurrencies that may make sense, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1585.362,"endTime":1592.254,"body":"because it's simply what the broader community"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1592.382,"endTime":1594.462,"body":"of proton users is requesting."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1594.646,"endTime":1596.774,"body":"Now, uh, if I go to specifically the question"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1596.822,"endTime":1597.622,"body":"of Monero."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1597.726,"endTime":1598.35,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1598.51,"endTime":1605.142,"body":"Um, we, of course, will look at the market"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1598.51,"endTime":1605.142,"body":"situation, uh, because the market situation"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1605.246,"endTime":1607.87,"body":"actually dictates what users are asking for."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1608.03,"endTime":1611.198,"body":"And because we're not, you know, vC financed,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1611.254,"endTime":1613.766,"body":"uh, in fact, we're a user, community financed."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1613.878,"endTime":1616.102,"body":"Uh, what the community wants is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1616.126,"endTime":1624.1,"body":"what we have to build a. So let's say,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1616.126,"endTime":1624.1,"body":"hypothetically, someday, Monero displaces"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1624.18,"endTime":1630.956,"body":"bitcoin someday as the largest network with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1624.18,"endTime":1630.956,"body":"the most adoption and is the most widely used"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1631.108,"endTime":1632.64,"body":"cryptocurrency out there."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1634.06,"endTime":1636.324,"body":"There are some people in the mineral community"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1636.452,"endTime":1640.796,"body":"who believe that it's inevitable and going to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1636.452,"endTime":1640.796,"body":"happen and we don't know."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1640.868,"endTime":1644.12,"body":"But let's take hypothetically that to be the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1640.868,"endTime":1644.12,"body":"case."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1645.76,"endTime":1653.52,"body":"And if that were the case, of course we as a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1645.76,"endTime":1653.52,"body":"company that's transfer, the community would"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1653.56,"endTime":1657.912,"body":"have to then add Monero because it would be at"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1653.56,"endTime":1657.912,"body":"that point the biggest community."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1658.056,"endTime":1660.1,"body":"So that's how I will look at it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1660.44,"endTime":1664.152,"body":"It's a bit like if someday signal protocol"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1664.296,"endTime":1671.18,"body":"displaced SMTP as the main means of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1664.296,"endTime":1671.18,"body":"communication in a network way, then of course"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1671.6,"endTime":1679.794,"body":"proton mill you can expect, would also maybe"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1671.6,"endTime":1679.794,"body":"update from using open BGP to using double"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1679.842,"endTime":1680.69,"body":"ratchet instead."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1680.81,"endTime":1682.85,"body":"So these are all things that are possible, but"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1682.89,"endTime":1688.626,"body":"it really has to depend on how the space"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1682.89,"endTime":1688.626,"body":"evolves and that's really how we look at it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1688.778,"endTime":1691.27,"body":"and how we make the decisions around product."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1692.29,"endTime":1697.394,"body":"Yeah, I think that gets into"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1692.29,"endTime":1697.394,"body":"a lot of the heart of the issue here, and I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1697.402,"endTime":1700.522,"body":"think a lot of the kind of the initial concern"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1697.402,"endTime":1700.522,"body":"especially."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1700.626,"endTime":1704.822,"body":"I mean, I've been in the Manero community for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1700.626,"endTime":1704.822,"body":"a very long time, so I'm in tune with, with"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1704.846,"endTime":1706.502,"body":"how they reacted to this announcement."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1706.566,"endTime":1708.686,"body":"And obviously some people just totally"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1708.718,"endTime":1714.022,"body":"overblown in the response, took it way too far"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1708.718,"endTime":1714.022,"body":"and were just way too upset that Monero was"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1714.046,"endTime":1717.326,"body":"not implemented in Peroton Wallet, even though"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1714.046,"endTime":1717.326,"body":"it is obviously much smaller than bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1717.358,"endTime":1721.606,"body":"And the network effect argument is a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1717.358,"endTime":1721.606,"body":"legitimate one, and the same one that I made"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1721.638,"endTime":1725.53,"body":"in a blog post that I wrote when I decided to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1721.638,"endTime":1725.53,"body":"go work for a bitcoin company."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1726.51,"endTime":1730.53,"body":"I mean, it does matter that you actually have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1726.51,"endTime":1730.53,"body":"broad reach with a tool."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1730.91,"endTime":1736.622,"body":"I think the common concern is just, is that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1730.91,"endTime":1736.622,"body":"broad reach worth the loss of privacy for the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1736.646,"endTime":1742.71,"body":"individual user and then pairing that with"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1736.646,"endTime":1742.71,"body":"just the way that some of the language was."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1742.75,"endTime":1747.406,"body":"I think there was a tweet that said no"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1742.75,"endTime":1747.406,"body":"shitcoins in proton wallet or something like"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1747.438,"endTime":1748.01,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1748.31,"endTime":1749.358,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1749.494,"endTime":1750.57,"body":"Yeah, there's a line."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1751.19,"endTime":1754.37,"body":"But people took that tweet out of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1751.19,"endTime":1754.37,"body":"context."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1755.75,"endTime":1759.77,"body":"If you look above, we are answering a specific"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1755.75,"endTime":1759.77,"body":"question about sharecoins."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1760.27,"endTime":1763.536,"body":"Someone asked us, but here come the shitcoins."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1763.688,"endTime":1765.624,"body":"And obviously we're not going to implement a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1765.632,"endTime":1766.416,"body":"bunch of shitcoins."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1766.528,"endTime":1769.1,"body":"This I think everybody can understand."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1770.56,"endTime":1771.344,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1771.392,"endTime":1773.24,"body":"And that's the hard part."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1773.4,"endTime":1778.08,"body":"Shitcoin is a trigger word for anyone who's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1773.4,"endTime":1778.08,"body":"not in bitcoin, because the tribalistic"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1778.12,"endTime":1781.7,"body":"bitcoiners use shitcoin to describe literally"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1778.12,"endTime":1781.7,"body":"everything else."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1782.2,"endTime":1787.032,"body":"But I think the nuanced bitcoiners would not"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1782.2,"endTime":1787.032,"body":"include things like Monero under the term"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1787.096,"endTime":1787.6,"body":"shitcoin."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1787.64,"endTime":1789.064,"body":"And that was a lot of the question was like, I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1789.072,"endTime":1792.646,"body":"think the immediate, the gut reaction that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1789.072,"endTime":1792.646,"body":"even I had was like, oh, theyre just calling"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1792.678,"endTime":1794.894,"body":"everything thats not bitcoin a shitcoin."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1795.062,"endTime":1797.502,"body":"Theres some tribalism going on here, and thats"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1797.526,"endTime":1801.446,"body":"going to be a problem in implementing the best"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1797.526,"endTime":1801.446,"body":"tool or instead of just implementing bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1801.478,"endTime":1802.03,"body":"no matter what."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1802.07,"endTime":1804.462,"body":"But youve already touched on a lot of the fact"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1804.526,"endTime":1808.278,"body":"that your focus is network effect, your focus"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1804.526,"endTime":1808.278,"body":"is reach."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1808.374,"endTime":1812.342,"body":"And then if that tool that you choose to use"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1808.374,"endTime":1812.342,"body":"because of the reach that it has does not have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1812.366,"endTime":1817.414,"body":"the best privacy, finding ways to actually"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1812.366,"endTime":1817.414,"body":"iterate on that privacy and improve it until"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1817.582,"endTime":1820.878,"body":"hopefully something with better privacy comes"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1817.582,"endTime":1820.878,"body":"along and makes that simpler."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1820.974,"endTime":1823.37,"body":"And I think that answers a lot of the question"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1820.974,"endTime":1823.37,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1823.67,"endTime":1825.262,"body":"Yeah, and I think it's the only way"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1823.67,"endTime":1825.262,"body":"to do it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1825.286,"endTime":1829.89,"body":"Right, because like I said, email."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1830.47,"endTime":1832.382,"body":"No one in their right mind that wants to build"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1832.446,"endTime":1839.83,"body":"privacy first tech in the 21st century would"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1832.446,"endTime":1839.83,"body":"pick email as a starting point, but it is the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1839.87,"endTime":1843.69,"body":"dominant communication tool out there."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1844.68,"endTime":1846.984,"body":"Whether you like it or not, it's the biggest"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1847.032,"endTime":1847.384,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1847.472,"endTime":1850.416,"body":"And from that perspective, it makes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1850.448,"endTime":1856.6,"body":"sense to try to go as far as you can towards"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1850.448,"endTime":1856.6,"body":"improving the privacy of email and also"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1856.64,"endTime":1857.74,"body":"bitcoin as well."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1858.96,"endTime":1861.744,"body":"It's not by any means the only way to do it,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1861.912,"endTime":1868.048,"body":"but I do think it's consistent with Peron's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1861.912,"endTime":1868.048,"body":"philosophy, because to be honest, most of the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1868.104,"endTime":1871.968,"body":"people who are privacy conscious and privacy"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1868.104,"endTime":1871.968,"body":"focused, they don't need us, they don't need"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1871.984,"endTime":1872.86,"body":"what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1873.84,"endTime":1875.4,"body":"They know how to get access to all these"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1875.44,"endTime":1879.16,"body":"things and they know how to protect themselves"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1875.44,"endTime":1879.16,"body":"and stay private."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1879.98,"endTime":1886.196,"body":"How we really change the world is by making"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1879.98,"endTime":1886.196,"body":"that a bit more accessible to the other 99.9%"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1886.228,"endTime":1887.052,"body":"of the world."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1887.236,"endTime":1890.716,"body":"And this is a huge challenge, but I think it's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1890.748,"endTime":1892.716,"body":"also the one that truly moves the needle."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1892.788,"endTime":1894.548,"body":"And this is why we focus the way that we have"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1894.564,"endTime":1895.004,"body":"focused."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1895.052,"endTime":1897.572,"body":"And it's controversial sometimes."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1897.596,"endTime":1897.972,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1898.076,"endTime":1900.972,"body":"Not everybody subscribes to this approach, but"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1900.996,"endTime":1906.036,"body":"I do think if you look at the results that we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1900.996,"endTime":1906.036,"body":"have achieved in the past decade and the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1906.068,"endTime":1910.412,"body":"amount of penetration that we were able to get"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1906.068,"endTime":1910.412,"body":"that past privacy companies were not able to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1910.436,"endTime":1916.628,"body":"achieve, it does show that there's some merit"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1910.436,"endTime":1916.628,"body":"to this approach, despite of the fact that a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1916.644,"endTime":1917.86,"body":"compromise is being made."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1917.9,"endTime":1919.404,"body":"Because there's always a compromise that has"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":1919.412,"endTime":1920.16,"body":"to be made."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1921.26,"endTime":1922.444,"body":"Yeah, yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1922.492,"endTime":1924.444,"body":"Everywhere you look, there's compromises when"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1924.452,"endTime":1928.996,"body":"you're choosing to build a product, especially"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1924.452,"endTime":1928.996,"body":"when you're aiming at something as potentially"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1929.028,"endTime":1933.59,"body":"difficult and yeah, just difficult as doing"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1929.028,"endTime":1933.59,"body":"privacy the right way."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1933.63,"endTime":1935.19,"body":"So I definitely grasp that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1935.23,"endTime":1937.982,"body":"I think, obviously, not to give you marketing"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1938.006,"endTime":1942.678,"body":"tips, but I think leaning into that concept of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1938.006,"endTime":1942.678,"body":"building a bitcoin wallet that will become"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1942.734,"endTime":1946.766,"body":"more and more private over time is something"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1942.734,"endTime":1946.766,"body":"that didn't seem clear to the people I talked"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1946.798,"endTime":1948.142,"body":"about and wasn't clear to me."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1948.166,"endTime":1949.478,"body":"And I think that was the biggest concern was"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1949.494,"endTime":1954.686,"body":"with just the drop of samurai wallet whirlpool"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1949.494,"endTime":1954.686,"body":"integration and then dropping a wallet that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1954.798,"endTime":1957.126,"body":"seemed to not have privacy features upfront."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1957.198,"endTime":1958.542,"body":"Well, it doesn't have privacy features right"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1958.566,"endTime":1963.626,"body":"now, but knowing a little bit more of that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1958.566,"endTime":1963.626,"body":"kind of road map of privacy that you all have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1963.658,"endTime":1967.458,"body":"planned out and how you want to approach that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1963.658,"endTime":1967.458,"body":"is very, very important."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1967.514,"endTime":1972.242,"body":"And even coin control, like you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1967.514,"endTime":1972.242,"body":"being a next step is one thats vital and one"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1972.266,"endTime":1975.898,"body":"that should be the first step for everyones"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1972.266,"endTime":1975.898,"body":"bitcoin privacy journey."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1976.074,"endTime":1981.41,"body":"That is the core of what people should be"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1976.074,"endTime":1981.41,"body":"doing as a reason in envoy, our mobile wallet"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1981.49,"endTime":1982.13,"body":"foundation."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1982.25,"endTime":1984.322,"body":"Thats a big focus for us and we spent months"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1984.346,"endTime":1987.666,"body":"and months building out a really intuitive"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1984.346,"endTime":1987.666,"body":"coin control feature because thats the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1987.698,"endTime":1991.11,"body":"simplest and most approachable aspect to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1987.698,"endTime":1991.11,"body":"bitcoin privacy that you need."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1991.15,"endTime":1994.118,"body":"Even if you're doing coin join or something"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1991.15,"endTime":1994.118,"body":"like that, you still need coin control."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1994.174,"endTime":1997.598,"body":"So I'm excited to see, to see how you all"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1994.174,"endTime":1997.598,"body":"approach that, because honestly, y'all do a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1997.614,"endTime":2001.85,"body":"very, very good job with the actual user"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1997.614,"endTime":2001.85,"body":"experience and the accessibility."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2002.15,"endTime":2005.758,"body":"And making bitcoin privacy actually accessible"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2002.15,"endTime":2005.758,"body":"is not an easy task."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2005.814,"endTime":2008.758,"body":"So I'm fascinated to see how you'll actually"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2005.814,"endTime":2008.758,"body":"take a stab at that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2008.814,"endTime":2013.838,"body":"Yeah, and that's why we're excited"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2008.814,"endTime":2013.838,"body":"by this as well, because the real innovation"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2013.894,"endTime":2019.174,"body":"here, which maybe people don't realize all the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2013.894,"endTime":2019.174,"body":"discussion was, oh, are they into bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2019.222,"endTime":2021.81,"body":"only?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2019.222,"endTime":2021.81,"body":"What does shitcoin mean as well as discussion?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2021.85,"endTime":2022.122,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2022.186,"endTime":2024.17,"body":"But actually the main innovation that came"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2024.21,"endTime":2028.842,"body":"out, I would say, from this release, which"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2024.21,"endTime":2028.842,"body":"we're going to iterate and improve upon, is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2028.866,"endTime":2029.834,"body":"actually bitcoin via email."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2029.882,"endTime":2030.21,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2030.29,"endTime":2037.41,"body":"That is the thing that breaks down the entry"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2030.29,"endTime":2037.41,"body":"barrier and makes it possible in a few months"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2037.45,"endTime":2043.59,"body":"time for 100 million people to in one click"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2037.45,"endTime":2043.59,"body":"have access to bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2043.89,"endTime":2049.046,"body":"And that, by the way, is also something that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2043.89,"endTime":2049.046,"body":"in my belief is game changing for coin"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2049.078,"endTime":2049.558,"body":"control."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2049.694,"endTime":2052.062,"body":"Because the fact that you can see all the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2052.086,"endTime":2057.17,"body":"addresses and easy associate identity to a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2052.086,"endTime":2057.17,"body":"transaction, at least within your own wallet,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2058.27,"endTime":2063.614,"body":"that changes things, because it actually makes"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2058.27,"endTime":2063.614,"body":"coin control usable for the first time for a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2063.622,"endTime":2064.61,"body":"mainstream audience."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2065.35,"endTime":2067.806,"body":"I do think there's a lot of potential here,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2067.998,"endTime":2070.014,"body":"but of course we're still early."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2070.102,"endTime":2072.702,"body":"We've been out for less than a week, and it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2072.726,"endTime":2078.398,"body":"will take some time to fully explore and find"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2072.726,"endTime":2078.398,"body":"the best way to get that potential and to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2078.414,"endTime":2084.806,"body":"really increase the audience of people in the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2078.414,"endTime":2084.806,"body":"world who are, if not crypto aware, maybe"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2084.838,"endTime":2086.77,"body":"becoming a bit more crypto savvy."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2087.23,"endTime":2088.086,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2088.118,"endTime":2089.99,"body":"And the user experience improvement of just"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2090.03,"endTime":2095.854,"body":"being able to send to a user readable, contact"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2090.03,"endTime":2095.854,"body":"listable address is a massive step forward."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2095.902,"endTime":2098.118,"body":"That's something that I've enjoyed lately in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2095.902,"endTime":2098.118,"body":"the bitcoin space."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2098.174,"endTime":2102.798,"body":"There's a new DNS based version of that,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2098.174,"endTime":2102.798,"body":"essentially that lets you have a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2102.814,"endTime":2108.236,"body":"username@domain.com dot that can resolve to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2102.814,"endTime":2108.236,"body":"silent payments, it can resolve to a bolt"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2108.268,"endTime":2109.2,"body":"twelve invoice."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2109.58,"endTime":2111.172,"body":"It can make it really simple for someone to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2111.196,"endTime":2114.916,"body":"send to a user readable name, but that still"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2111.196,"endTime":2114.916,"body":"requires that the person on the other end"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2114.948,"endTime":2116.476,"body":"already has that all set up."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2116.548,"endTime":2118.88,"body":"Whereas with the proton send to email"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2119.34,"endTime":2120.74,"body":"approach, that's not required."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2120.78,"endTime":2120.932,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2120.956,"endTime":2125.492,"body":"Like even sending to somebody that's not a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2120.956,"endTime":2125.492,"body":"current proton user can create a proton wallet"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2125.516,"endTime":2126.628,"body":"and claim those funds."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2126.644,"endTime":2128.58,"body":"How exactly does that work for a non proton"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2128.62,"endTime":2129.092,"body":"user?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2129.196,"endTime":2134.192,"body":"Yeah, well, actually anybody can"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2129.196,"endTime":2134.192,"body":"create a proton wallet account."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2134.376,"endTime":2135.888,"body":"It doesn't even have to be protonmail."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2135.984,"endTime":2137.54,"body":"It could also be your Gmail account."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2138.0,"endTime":2141.368,"body":"So it works exactly the way that PayPal works."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2141.464,"endTime":2143.104,"body":"As long as you have a proton wallet account,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2143.272,"endTime":2148.78,"body":"anybody in that network can actually send"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2143.272,"endTime":2148.78,"body":"value in a seamless, easy to use way."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2149.28,"endTime":2153.168,"body":"I think the beauty of what we're doing is that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2149.28,"endTime":2153.168,"body":"there's actually 100 million accounts out"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2153.184,"endTime":2153.86,"body":"there already."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2155.0,"endTime":2158.348,"body":"I think some people say there's maybe 500"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2158.404,"endTime":2160.252,"body":"million crypto users out there."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2160.316,"endTime":2161.644,"body":"I don't know what the actual number is, but"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2161.692,"endTime":2166.996,"body":"assuming that is true, we could be increasing"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2161.692,"endTime":2166.996,"body":"this number by 20% overnight."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2167.188,"endTime":2168.908,"body":"And I think that's incredibly powerful."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2169.004,"endTime":2171.612,"body":"So that is why we pioneered this approach,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2171.756,"endTime":2175.42,"body":"because actually it ties in very well with the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2171.756,"endTime":2175.42,"body":"work that we've done on email."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2175.58,"endTime":2179.86,"body":"And it's early to say we don't know if it's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2175.58,"endTime":2179.86,"body":"going to work or not, but I do think it has"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2179.94,"endTime":2184.326,"body":"massive potential because you know how to fill"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2179.94,"endTime":2184.326,"body":"the DNS, you know how they configure anything."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2184.468,"endTime":2188.266,"body":"You just get an account and it's done, and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2184.468,"endTime":2188.266,"body":"then you're part of a network of 100 million"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2188.298,"endTime":2190.426,"body":"people that you can seamlessly transact with."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2190.578,"endTime":2194.026,"body":"And it doesn't get easier than that, honestly."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2194.058,"endTime":2194.63,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2195.29,"endTime":2196.306,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2196.418,"endTime":2197.818,"body":"That's the easiest user experience you can"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2197.834,"endTime":2198.722,"body":"really ask for."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2198.866,"endTime":2201.746,"body":"I think one more little kind of privacy focus"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2201.818,"endTime":2205.626,"body":"question on that and then we'll shift focus a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2201.818,"endTime":2205.626,"body":"little bit more towards the future of Proton"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2205.658,"endTime":2207.082,"body":"wallet and Proton itself."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2207.146,"endTime":2209.698,"body":"But one more question that I think is"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2209.834,"endTime":2212.946,"body":"something that I was able to find a clear"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2209.834,"endTime":2212.946,"body":"answer to when I was digging through the docs"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2212.978,"endTime":2214.174,"body":"and the frequently asked questions."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2214.242,"endTime":2216.414,"body":"But when you're leveraging the send email"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2216.462,"endTime":2220.69,"body":"feature and you're a recipient, you enable"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2216.462,"endTime":2220.69,"body":"this for a proton email address."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2222.15,"endTime":2228.278,"body":"What does Proton get insight into as far as"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2222.15,"endTime":2228.278,"body":"the actual bitcoin on chain activity, like the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2228.294,"endTime":2231.062,"body":"address pool?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2228.294,"endTime":2231.062,"body":"That's GPG sign that I mentioned briefly"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2231.086,"endTime":2231.65,"body":"earlier."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2231.99,"endTime":2233.814,"body":"And how does that pair with your email"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2233.862,"endTime":2236.062,"body":"address?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2233.862,"endTime":2236.062,"body":"What kind of visibility does proton as an"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2236.086,"endTime":2238.51,"body":"entity have into that?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2236.086,"endTime":2238.51,"body":"Because I think that's another bit of a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2238.55,"endTime":2242.548,"body":"concern with the proton wallet integration"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2238.55,"endTime":2242.548,"body":"into proton services."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2242.644,"endTime":2248.276,"body":"It's just that this will be an added potential"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2242.644,"endTime":2248.276,"body":"avenue for proton surveillance or for a three"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2248.308,"endTime":2251.116,"body":"letter agency, et cetera, to force proton to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2248.308,"endTime":2251.116,"body":"surveil."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2251.148,"endTime":2253.284,"body":"And that concerns people a little bit, I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2251.148,"endTime":2253.284,"body":"think."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2253.452,"endTime":2258.508,"body":"Yeah, so of course we have access to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2253.452,"endTime":2258.508,"body":"the pool, but then it's a question of what we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2258.564,"endTime":2258.948,"body":"retain."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2259.004,"endTime":2262.116,"body":"So I would say it's very similar to our VPN"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2262.148,"endTime":2262.748,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2262.924,"endTime":2266.636,"body":"Protonvpn, in theory, has access to all your"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2266.668,"endTime":2269.32,"body":"traffic because that's the way DCP IP works."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2269.81,"endTime":2272.71,"body":"But we simply choose not to log it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2273.05,"endTime":2275.99,"body":"We do public audits to verify that we don't"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2273.05,"endTime":2275.99,"body":"log it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2276.33,"endTime":2282.082,"body":"And also we have the backing of swiss law that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2276.33,"endTime":2282.082,"body":"is very clearly saying we are not obliged to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2282.106,"endTime":2282.87,"body":"log it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2283.65,"endTime":2286.15,"body":"If you take that concept and you apply it to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2286.53,"endTime":2291.298,"body":"the pool of addresses that are linked to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2286.53,"endTime":2291.298,"body":"bitcoin via email, it's the same thing."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2291.394,"endTime":2296.776,"body":"Of course, if we wanted to, we could record"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2291.394,"endTime":2296.776,"body":"everything in that pool and keep a record."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2296.938,"endTime":2300.972,"body":"But now, as soon as an address is used, we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2296.938,"endTime":2300.972,"body":"throw it away."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2301.036,"endTime":2302.84,"body":"That's not being logged, that's not being"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2301.036,"endTime":2302.84,"body":"saved."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2303.18,"endTime":2308.772,"body":"And there's also, under current swiss law, no"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2303.18,"endTime":2308.772,"body":"legal way to compel us to log that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2308.796,"endTime":2309.36,"body":"information."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2310.38,"endTime":2312.068,"body":"There's no other way that it can work because"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2312.124,"endTime":2317.572,"body":"obviously, if you're, let's say, coordinating"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2312.124,"endTime":2317.572,"body":"the transaction, you will have that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2317.596,"endTime":2319.92,"body":"information and it is inevitable."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2320.22,"endTime":2322.4,"body":"But we don't log it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2323.87,"endTime":2325.774,"body":"Yeah, I think that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2323.87,"endTime":2325.774,"body":"definitely is fitting."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2325.822,"endTime":2329.878,"body":"And I'm sure people will watch just like they"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2325.822,"endTime":2329.878,"body":"do with the current VPN policies and email"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2329.934,"endTime":2330.734,"body":"policies."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2330.902,"endTime":2332.886,"body":"If there are court cases in the future where"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2332.918,"endTime":2337.646,"body":"Proton is asked to provide info, what info is"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2332.918,"endTime":2337.646,"body":"provided is usually a good tell of what"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2337.678,"endTime":2339.254,"body":"actually is being logged or not."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2339.342,"endTime":2341.238,"body":"I think some people have really overblown the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2341.254,"endTime":2345.35,"body":"fact that obviously y'all can sometimes give"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2341.254,"endTime":2345.35,"body":"an IP address over to a law enforcement"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2345.39,"endTime":2349.286,"body":"agency, but I think that that response has"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2345.39,"endTime":2349.286,"body":"been very overblown."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2349.318,"endTime":2351.262,"body":"But I'm sure that I'll be keeping an eye on"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2349.318,"endTime":2351.262,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2351.286,"endTime":2356.878,"body":"To, to obviously just confirm via third party"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2351.286,"endTime":2356.878,"body":"means that that policy is abided by."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2357.014,"endTime":2362.27,"body":"Yeah, and actually the scale of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2357.014,"endTime":2362.27,"body":"proton makes that pretty easy because there"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2362.31,"endTime":2366.13,"body":"are usually, let's say, large number of cases"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2362.31,"endTime":2366.13,"body":"that come through."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2366.59,"endTime":2369.678,"body":"So, you know, there's some people that say,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2366.59,"endTime":2369.678,"body":"oh, you know, we don't log well, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2369.694,"endTime":2370.31,"body":"never had a case."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2370.35,"endTime":2370.566,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2370.598,"endTime":2371.966,"body":"So we don't actually know if you log or not."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2371.998,"endTime":2372.19,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2372.23,"endTime":2377.342,"body":"But, you know, in our case, there's been, you"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2372.23,"endTime":2377.342,"body":"know, a big enough history of cases in the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2377.366,"endTime":2383.354,"body":"past for, I think people can pretty credibly"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2377.366,"endTime":2383.354,"body":"understand what we have and what we don't have"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2383.522,"endTime":2388.778,"body":"because you don't go through thousands of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2383.522,"endTime":2388.778,"body":"cases over ten years and have that still be a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2388.794,"endTime":2389.43,"body":"mystery."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2389.85,"endTime":2391.01,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2391.05,"endTime":2393.25,"body":"I think it's one of the best litmus tests of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2393.41,"endTime":2396.498,"body":"whether a provider is actually committed to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2393.41,"endTime":2396.498,"body":"non logging."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2396.634,"endTime":2398.59,"body":"And it's something that I use and talk about."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2398.93,"endTime":2401.058,"body":"So let's pivot for our last few minutes that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2401.074,"endTime":2401.826,"body":"we have here."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2401.938,"endTime":2403.786,"body":"I want to focus on the future of Proton wallet"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2403.818,"endTime":2405.714,"body":"and then the future of Proton as a whole."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2405.842,"endTime":2408.4,"body":"So we've touched a little bit on the, where"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2408.44,"endTime":2412.992,"body":"you see Proton wallet going really on the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2408.44,"endTime":2412.992,"body":"general desire for better privacy in Proton,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2413.056,"endTime":2414.288,"body":"the addition of lightning."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2414.424,"endTime":2415.832,"body":"Was there anything else that you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2415.856,"endTime":2420.62,"body":"touch on about what you're excited to add in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2415.856,"endTime":2420.62,"body":"or improve within proton wallet?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2421.2,"endTime":2422.336,"body":"Well, myself personally."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2422.368,"endTime":2422.56,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2422.6,"endTime":2428.024,"body":"I would love to take out Google pay and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2422.6,"endTime":2428.024,"body":"compete with that eventually, but that's a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2428.032,"endTime":2428.896,"body":"tough one."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2429.088,"endTime":2433.152,"body":"So we may not be able to see that through with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2433.176,"endTime":2435.28,"body":"all the legal challenges that that will pose."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2435.44,"endTime":2437.528,"body":"But that would, of course, be a dream if we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2437.544,"endTime":2438.296,"body":"could do that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2438.448,"endTime":2440.68,"body":"And that's something that we are actively"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2441.02,"endTime":2442.04,"body":"looking into."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2442.5,"endTime":2447.388,"body":"So I would say if you go to our user voice"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2447.484,"endTime":2453.252,"body":"where there's a bunch of suggestions, it's not"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2447.484,"endTime":2453.252,"body":"one I'm ready to mark as in progress yet, but"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2453.276,"endTime":2457.828,"body":"it's definitely something that is being"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2453.276,"endTime":2457.828,"body":"thought about a lot within proton today, not"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2457.844,"endTime":2460.892,"body":"just from a technical standpoint, but also"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2457.844,"endTime":2460.892,"body":"from a legal team thinking about this."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2460.996,"endTime":2463.788,"body":"So that's one that's out there."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2463.924,"endTime":2465.852,"body":"And obviously the other features that we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2465.876,"endTime":2471.274,"body":"mentioned, point control coming very quickly,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2465.876,"endTime":2471.274,"body":"whether coin join and other things like this"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2471.402,"endTime":2476.698,"body":"can happen, this is going to depend on the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2471.402,"endTime":2476.698,"body":"cases that are currently pending in us court."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2476.754,"endTime":2480.522,"body":"I think there was also a case that was pending"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2476.754,"endTime":2480.522,"body":"in a dutch court as well, and that one"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2480.546,"endTime":2484.466,"body":"actually ended quite badly for the defendant."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2484.658,"endTime":2488.562,"body":"So we're watching this and I do think that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2488.666,"endTime":2492.27,"body":"anybody that has an interest in this space"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2488.666,"endTime":2492.27,"body":"should be supporting these cases."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2494.78,"endTime":2498.588,"body":"Yeah, actually we actually are reading every"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2494.78,"endTime":2498.588,"body":"single filing in those cases right now."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2498.604,"endTime":2504.676,"body":"That's how close you are following it because"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2498.604,"endTime":2504.676,"body":"it's really going to decide in many ways the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2504.708,"endTime":2508.76,"body":"future of the freedom to transact and freedom"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2504.708,"endTime":2508.76,"body":"to solve custody."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2509.38,"endTime":2512.276,"body":"Yeah. I'm glad that you're"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2509.38,"endTime":2512.276,"body":"aware and up to speed on those as well,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2512.308,"endTime":2513.28,"body":"because I think there's."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2513.7,"endTime":2515.852,"body":"I don't know, it's just easy for this space,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2515.916,"endTime":2519.716,"body":"the crypto, and the privacy space to quickly"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2515.916,"endTime":2519.716,"body":"move on just because there's so much news"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2519.748,"endTime":2520.516,"body":"happening all the time."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2520.588,"endTime":2522.036,"body":"And I feel like that's a little bit happened"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2522.068,"endTime":2526.308,"body":"with the samurai case and the Tornado cash"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2522.068,"endTime":2526.308,"body":"case, just the one you mentioned in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2526.324,"endTime":2530.24,"body":"Netherlands, which also has an accompanying"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2526.324,"endTime":2530.24,"body":"case in the US that I think is up for trial or"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2530.28,"endTime":2534.208,"body":"for the next meeting for the trial in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2530.28,"endTime":2534.208,"body":"December."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2534.264,"endTime":2537.144,"body":"I believe there's a lot of work to be done on"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2534.264,"endTime":2537.144,"body":"both of those."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2537.272,"endTime":2543.056,"body":"And I would say on the samurai wallet side, if"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2537.272,"endTime":2543.056,"body":"you haven't already gotten connected with the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2543.128,"endTime":2546.112,"body":"P two P rights fund guys, I would love to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2543.128,"endTime":2546.112,"body":"connect you."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2546.136,"endTime":2550.4,"body":"If there's any interest in either just talking"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2546.136,"endTime":2550.4,"body":"about it publicly or any kind of donation."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2550.52,"endTime":2554.106,"body":"I know them well, and they're doing fantastic"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2550.52,"endTime":2554.106,"body":"work, work to both support the actual defense"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2554.138,"endTime":2558.714,"body":"of samurai wallet and to put in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2554.138,"endTime":2558.714,"body":"effort towards amicus briefs, which can go a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2558.722,"endTime":2559.506,"body":"long way there as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2559.538,"endTime":2561.378,"body":"So that's definitely something that we can"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2561.394,"endTime":2564.89,"body":"chat more about offline, but I would love to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2561.394,"endTime":2564.89,"body":"get you plugged in there if at all possible."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2565.05,"endTime":2565.842,"body":"Yeah, I think."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2565.946,"endTime":2568.642,"body":"Don't quote me on this, because I may be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2568.666,"endTime":2574.218,"body":"wrong, but I believe our legal teams, our"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2568.666,"endTime":2574.218,"body":"policy teams, have already been touched with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2574.234,"endTime":2580.018,"body":"some of these folks because obviously, we do"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2574.234,"endTime":2580.018,"body":"want to support them as much as possible in"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2580.034,"endTime":2580.83,"body":"these cases."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2582.49,"endTime":2585.466,"body":"What I think is worth mentioning is there are"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2585.498,"endTime":2593.514,"body":"also very clear differences between some of"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2585.498,"endTime":2593.514,"body":"these cases and say what an actor like Proton"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2593.642,"endTime":2597.626,"body":"would be involved in the problem with these"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2593.642,"endTime":2597.626,"body":"cases."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2597.738,"endTime":2605.482,"body":"And I'm, of course, supportive of, let's say,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2597.738,"endTime":2605.482,"body":"the overall principle that these people are"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2605.506,"endTime":2606.59,"body":"trying to uphold."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2607.17,"endTime":2611.402,"body":"But I do think sometimes the messenger that is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2611.466,"endTime":2614.898,"body":"upholding these principles is not the right"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2611.466,"endTime":2614.898,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2615.074,"endTime":2623.098,"body":"And what I mean by that is, in these cases,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2615.074,"endTime":2623.098,"body":"they do what is called legal discovery."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2623.194,"endTime":2627.346,"body":"So they go back through, they look at old"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2623.194,"endTime":2627.346,"body":"tweets, look at old chats, and look at things"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2627.378,"endTime":2628.27,"body":"people have written."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2628.85,"endTime":2633.778,"body":"And the problem here is there's so much other"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2633.834,"endTime":2638.382,"body":"stuff that unfortunately was said that can be"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2633.834,"endTime":2638.382,"body":"used to muddy the waters."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2638.486,"endTime":2644.822,"body":"So, you know, they found old tweets and old"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2638.486,"endTime":2644.822,"body":"emails, you know, where people, even if it's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2644.846,"endTime":2649.478,"body":"not direct evidence of facilitation of money"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2644.846,"endTime":2649.478,"body":"laundering, it's, you know, certain statements"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2649.494,"endTime":2650.198,"body":"are not helpful."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2650.254,"endTime":2650.854,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2651.022,"endTime":2655.598,"body":"That seemed like compliance was an"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2651.022,"endTime":2655.598,"body":"afterthought as opposed to something that, you"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2655.614,"endTime":2659.01,"body":"know, was paid attention to from the very"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2655.614,"endTime":2659.01,"body":"beginning."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2660.19,"endTime":2664.742,"body":"And ultimately these are bits, you know, kind"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2660.19,"endTime":2664.742,"body":"of fly by night operations, a lot of these."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2664.886,"endTime":2671.918,"body":"And that's actually the problem is that the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2664.886,"endTime":2671.918,"body":"values here, the principles are correct, but"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2671.934,"endTime":2677.998,"body":"the messenger oftentimes, unfortunately, are"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2671.934,"endTime":2677.998,"body":"deeply flawed in various ways and it makes it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2678.014,"endTime":2679.406,"body":"very difficult to win these cases."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2679.478,"endTime":2683.374,"body":"So I do believe if there was another case with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2683.542,"endTime":2688.918,"body":"somebody that maybe did compliance a bit more"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2683.542,"endTime":2688.918,"body":"carefully, the outcome could be different."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2688.974,"endTime":2695.468,"body":"And then this is also why I, the DOJ is smart,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2688.974,"endTime":2695.468,"body":"so they pick the specific cases for deal with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2695.484,"endTime":2696.332,"body":"these vulnerabilities."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2696.476,"endTime":2698.532,"body":"But unfortunately, this might set a precedent"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2698.556,"endTime":2699.508,"body":"for the whole industry."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2699.644,"endTime":2701.492,"body":"So as much as people like to say, oh, you"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2701.516,"endTime":2704.28,"body":"know, forget about compliance, we don't care"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2701.516,"endTime":2704.28,"body":"about compliance."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2705.1,"endTime":2708.48,"body":"We're libertarians and we're for anything"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2705.1,"endTime":2708.48,"body":"goes."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2709.62,"endTime":2713.436,"body":"Yeah, but that doesn't really correlate to the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2709.62,"endTime":2713.436,"body":"real world."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2713.548,"endTime":2719.388,"body":"So at a certain point, we do need to have a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2713.548,"endTime":2719.388,"body":"balance between compliance and not compliant"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2719.404,"endTime":2719.99,"body":"at all."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2720.14,"endTime":2721.554,"body":"And I think, unfortunately, a lot of people in"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2721.562,"endTime":2724.15,"body":"this space dont quite strike the right"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2721.562,"endTime":2724.15,"body":"balance."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2724.97,"endTime":2728.506,"body":"Yeah, I think you hit the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2724.97,"endTime":2728.506,"body":"nail on the head when you said that the DOJ is"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2728.538,"endTime":2731.41,"body":"smart and chooses these cases intentionally."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2731.57,"endTime":2733.106,"body":"Theyre trying to find the low hanging fruit"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2733.138,"endTime":2738.402,"body":"that they can find some bits and pieces that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2733.138,"endTime":2738.402,"body":"will dirty up the reputation enough to try and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2738.426,"endTime":2740.194,"body":"get this past a judge and jury."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2740.242,"endTime":2742.306,"body":"So its definitely an unfortunate situation,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2742.378,"endTime":2744.67,"body":"but I understand the perspective there for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2742.378,"endTime":2744.67,"body":"sure."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2745.98,"endTime":2747.084,"body":"Last question for you."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2747.132,"endTime":2749.148,"body":"Definitely not the least, but I know that at"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2749.164,"endTime":2752.22,"body":"Proton, obviously youll always have a ton of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2749.164,"endTime":2752.22,"body":"things in the works."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2752.3,"endTime":2755.548,"body":"Ive had some symbiote acquisitions lately with"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2752.3,"endTime":2755.548,"body":"things like standard notes."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2755.684,"endTime":2760.172,"body":"Obviously you dropped the proton wallet"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2755.684,"endTime":2760.172,"body":"without a lot of us being prepared for that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2760.276,"endTime":2763.988,"body":"Are there any other tidbits you can share with"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2760.276,"endTime":2763.988,"body":"us that you have planned for Proton in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2764.004,"endTime":2768.44,"body":"future that you want to maybe end off on a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2764.004,"endTime":2768.44,"body":"good note here?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2768.78,"endTime":2771.748,"body":"Yeah, im always surprised that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2768.78,"endTime":2771.748,"body":"people managed to get surprised when we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2771.764,"endTime":2775.09,"body":"released things because a lot of our code is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2771.764,"endTime":2775.09,"body":"open source."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2775.25,"endTime":2778.29,"body":"If you look carefully enough, you will find"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2775.25,"endTime":2778.29,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2778.37,"endTime":2782.266,"body":"In fact, if you were, let's say, closely"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2778.37,"endTime":2782.266,"body":"watching certain repositories, you would have"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2782.298,"endTime":2786.082,"body":"seen Proton wallet at least mentioned on"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2782.298,"endTime":2786.082,"body":"GitHub at least a couple months back."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2786.186,"endTime":2793.506,"body":"But, yeah, I suppose we're being pretty good"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2786.186,"endTime":2793.506,"body":"at, let's say, keeping things confidential so"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2793.538,"endTime":2794.87,"body":"we can work on them in peace."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2796.05,"endTime":2797.978,"body":"It's a bit like Apple, who is also very good"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2797.994,"endTime":2799.95,"body":"at not letting people know what they're up to."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2801.01,"endTime":2802.954,"body":"So what can I confirm?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2803.002,"endTime":2808.474,"body":"Well, what I can confirm is actually we're not"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2803.002,"endTime":2808.474,"body":"going to be, let's say, launching any other"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2808.522,"endTime":2813.63,"body":"major products this, let's say, in the next"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2808.522,"endTime":2813.63,"body":"couple months."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2814.13,"endTime":2818.994,"body":"And that's because we've done a lot actually."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2819.042,"endTime":2822.67,"body":"People saw the proton AI for businesses."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2823.41,"endTime":2829.786,"body":"They saw docs and they saw wallet all landing"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2823.41,"endTime":2829.786,"body":"in July and they thought, oh, okay, protons"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2829.818,"endTime":2830.562,"body":"gone crazy."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2830.666,"endTime":2833.842,"body":"These people have lost their minds and they're"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2833.866,"endTime":2835.562,"body":"stupid and not caring about the community, et"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2833.866,"endTime":2835.562,"body":"cetera."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2835.586,"endTime":2836.058,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2836.194,"endTime":2836.922,"body":"It's not like that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2836.946,"endTime":2837.322,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2837.426,"endTime":2840.298,"body":"It was obviously development is hard to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2840.314,"endTime":2840.95,"body":"predict."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2841.41,"endTime":2843.482,"body":"These things were not all supposed to land"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2843.546,"endTime":2847.474,"body":"within a span of two, three weeks, but they"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2843.546,"endTime":2847.474,"body":"happen to get to the finish line sort of at"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2847.482,"endTime":2850.506,"body":"the same time and that's why they all came"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2847.482,"endTime":2850.506,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2850.538,"endTime":2854.634,"body":"So I would say July is probably an anomaly."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2854.682,"endTime":2857.618,"body":"This is not the youthful situation."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2857.754,"endTime":2859.794,"body":"We're not spending every month launching three"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2857.754,"endTime":2859.794,"body":"products."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2859.842,"endTime":2860.99,"body":"This is not what we do."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2861.47,"endTime":2863.47,"body":"We do have a lot of focused attention and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2863.51,"endTime":2865.302,"body":"effort on existing products."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2865.446,"endTime":2866.926,"body":"There's roadmaps that we'll be sharing pretty"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2866.958,"endTime":2867.51,"body":"soon."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2867.67,"endTime":2869.534,"body":"There's a lot of exciting things are coming"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2869.622,"endTime":2871.766,"body":"for things already that exist in our"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2869.622,"endTime":2871.766,"body":"ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2871.838,"endTime":2872.774,"body":"We're improving the VPN."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2872.822,"endTime":2873.902,"body":"There's a lot of work that's happening on"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2873.926,"endTime":2874.286,"body":"calendar."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2874.318,"endTime":2877.286,"body":"I know calendar people are unhappy with it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2877.398,"endTime":2881.814,"body":"In fact, I think there's some serious issues"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2877.398,"endTime":2881.814,"body":"there that we need to improve and we're going"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2881.822,"endTime":2882.286,"body":"to do that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2882.358,"endTime":2884.926,"body":"I think even on the mail products there's some"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2885.038,"endTime":2888.806,"body":"longstanding features that, that we're very"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2885.038,"endTime":2888.806,"body":"close to getting out."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2888.918,"endTime":2893.734,"body":"So we haven't lost, let's say, our focus on"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2888.918,"endTime":2893.734,"body":"what is our core mission."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2893.862,"endTime":2899.806,"body":"This will still be ongoing and you won't hear"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2893.862,"endTime":2899.806,"body":"any product announcements from us for new"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2899.838,"endTime":2901.37,"body":"things, at least for a couple of months."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2901.67,"endTime":2902.934,"body":"And we're going to spend the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2902.942,"endTime":2905.982,"body":"summer quite focused on the core things the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2902.942,"endTime":2905.982,"body":"community cares about."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2906.126,"endTime":2909.774,"body":"And on that note, we work for you."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2909.822,"endTime":2910.166,"body":"Ultimately."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2910.198,"endTime":2912.03,"body":"We work for the community and for the users."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2912.07,"endTime":2913.582,"body":"We don't work for VC's, we don't work for"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2913.606,"endTime":2914.182,"body":"investors."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2914.286,"endTime":2915.454,"body":"We don't work for governments."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2915.542,"endTime":2916.64,"body":"We work for the people."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2916.83,"endTime":2921.476,"body":"So come on Twitter, go on Reddit, just email"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2921.548,"endTime":2924.556,"body":"us, get in touch with our support team, let us"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2921.548,"endTime":2924.556,"body":"know what you want."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2924.708,"endTime":2929.24,"body":"And it's our obligation actually to meet the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2924.708,"endTime":2929.24,"body":"needs of the community and we will do that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2930.06,"endTime":2933.348,"body":"Speaking of that, I do have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2930.06,"endTime":2933.348,"body":"one more question that I forgot to ask that I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2933.364,"endTime":2938.22,"body":"know that the Monero community would skewer me"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2933.364,"endTime":2938.22,"body":"if I didn't throw out there any plans for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2938.26,"endTime":2940.86,"body":"accepting Monero for payment for proton"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2938.26,"endTime":2940.86,"body":"services."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2941.02,"endTime":2945.388,"body":"Not intuition to Proton wallet, but just"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2941.02,"endTime":2945.388,"body":"allowing us to pay for Proton with Monero"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2945.444,"endTime":2948.904,"body":"because I know that's been one of the most"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2945.444,"endTime":2948.904,"body":"highly requested features on y'all's platform"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2948.972,"endTime":2949.968,"body":"for a long time."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2950.144,"endTime":2957.152,"body":"Yeah. And I'll actually give you"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2950.144,"endTime":2957.152,"body":"kind of an answer that is not public, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2957.176,"endTime":2958.808,"body":"okay sharing it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2958.904,"endTime":2959.54,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2961.16,"endTime":2962.424,"body":"And because it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2962.552,"endTime":2964.656,"body":"And in the end, it's just a kind of a legal"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2964.688,"endTime":2966.02,"body":"but kind of stupid thing."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2966.52,"endTime":2971.66,"body":"Proton is a swiss company, and swiss companies"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2972.04,"endTime":2980.208,"body":"above a certain size have to undergo what is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2972.04,"endTime":2980.208,"body":"known as, you know, a mandatory legal audit"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2980.224,"endTime":2980.834,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2981.032,"endTime":2983.198,"body":"And to get a legal audit done, you need to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2983.214,"endTime":2987.398,"body":"find an auditing company that is willing to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2983.214,"endTime":2987.398,"body":"run your full audit."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2987.574,"endTime":2993.926,"body":"And generally because, you know, because"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2987.574,"endTime":2993.926,"body":"Proton is a, let's say, a bigger company that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2993.958,"endTime":3000.326,"body":"is, let's say, more credible in many ways, we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":2993.958,"endTime":3000.326,"body":"try to go with one of the big four accounting"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3000.358,"endTime":3000.71,"body":"firms."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3000.79,"endTime":3001.462,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3001.646,"endTime":3006.062,"body":"So actually, it's public information because"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3001.646,"endTime":3006.062,"body":"it's on the Geneva registered commerce."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3006.086,"endTime":3010.048,"body":"But actually, you know, we use PwC as our"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3006.086,"endTime":3010.048,"body":"auditor."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3010.224,"endTime":3019.14,"body":"And the thing about big four auditing firms is"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3010.224,"endTime":3019.14,"body":"they are pretty wary of crypto in general."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3019.52,"endTime":3024.992,"body":"And to pass your audit, you need to have very"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3019.52,"endTime":3024.992,"body":"good revenue recognition because it's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3025.016,"endTime":3026.58,"body":"something that you have to do properly."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3027.6,"endTime":3031.608,"body":"Already, the fact that we accept bitcoin has"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3031.664,"endTime":3035.192,"body":"made it so that certain auditors refuse to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3031.664,"endTime":3035.192,"body":"work with us."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3035.376,"endTime":3043.776,"body":"And the worry that we have is, if we do"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3035.376,"endTime":3043.776,"body":"Monero, that may further limit the auditors"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3043.888,"endTime":3046.048,"body":"that are willing and able to work with us."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3046.224,"endTime":3049.288,"body":"And at some point, that poses a problem for us"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3049.304,"endTime":3052.384,"body":"from a legal standpoint, because we're"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3049.304,"endTime":3052.384,"body":"required to get an audit, and we want to get"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3052.392,"endTime":3054.38,"body":"an audit from a repeatable form."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3054.8,"endTime":3056.98,"body":"So it's."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3057.28,"endTime":3064.432,"body":"I hate to say it, right, but Monero has a"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3057.28,"endTime":3064.432,"body":"reputational problem that needs to be, let's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3064.456,"endTime":3069.088,"body":"say, separately addressed first, before it can"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3064.456,"endTime":3069.088,"body":"gain more widespread acceptance."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3069.224,"endTime":3074.272,"body":"Because for a lot of companies, there are real"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3069.224,"endTime":3074.272,"body":"business reasons why they are simply unable to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3074.296,"endTime":3074.98,"body":"do it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3075.64,"endTime":3076.688,"body":"It's a painful answer."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3076.744,"endTime":3079.12,"body":"It's not an unexpected one."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3079.16,"endTime":3084.712,"body":"I mean, the specifics on the auditing firm's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3079.16,"endTime":3084.712,"body":"unwillingness to work with Monero is not"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3084.736,"endTime":3089.912,"body":"obviously a detail that I've known before now,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3084.736,"endTime":3089.912,"body":"but just that, that distancing of the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3089.936,"endTime":3095.12,"body":"reputation of Monero from what it actually is,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3089.936,"endTime":3095.12,"body":"which is a tool for freedom and digital cash,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3095.2,"endTime":3099.768,"body":"not just a tool for criminals, even though"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3095.2,"endTime":3099.768,"body":"that is, the public perception is a hard one."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3099.784,"endTime":3100.968,"body":"It's a hard one to escape from."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3101.024,"endTime":3103.048,"body":"And I know that it does have real world"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3103.104,"endTime":3103.704,"body":"impacts."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3103.792,"endTime":3105.592,"body":"And I think the Monero community, above all,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3105.616,"endTime":3111.632,"body":"understands that the easiest way to prevent"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3105.616,"endTime":3111.632,"body":"its usage, and thus prevent access to easier"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3111.696,"endTime":3116.872,"body":"financial privacy than something like bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3111.696,"endTime":3116.872,"body":"is to just make it harder to use in the above"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3116.936,"endTime":3119.246,"body":"board legit world."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3119.438,"endTime":3121.422,"body":"And that has been their approach for a long"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3121.446,"endTime":3123.19,"body":"time to make sure that exchanges cant list it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3123.23,"endTime":3124.918,"body":"Banks wont handle anything that has to do with"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3124.934,"endTime":3126.13,"body":"Monero, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3126.43,"endTime":3128.214,"body":"So im not too surprised by the answer,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3128.262,"endTime":3128.606,"body":"obviously."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3128.638,"endTime":3129.326,"body":"Sad."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3129.518,"endTime":3133.15,"body":"But im grateful that you were willing to get"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3129.518,"endTime":3133.15,"body":"into the details a little bit there because I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3133.15,"endTime":3135.67,"body":"know that there hasnt been really any public"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3133.15,"endTime":3135.67,"body":"statement on that."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3135.83,"endTime":3139.57,"body":"Yeah, its tricky, to be honest, even"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3135.83,"endTime":3139.57,"body":"on bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3140.47,"endTime":3146.398,"body":"It took bitcoin probably 13 years before it"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3140.47,"endTime":3146.398,"body":"made it off the blacklist."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3146.494,"endTime":3149.958,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3146.494,"endTime":3149.958,"body":"And look, of the big four, I won't name names,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3150.014,"endTime":3153.33,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3150.014,"endTime":3153.33,"body":"But there are some of them who even today"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3154.11,"endTime":3157.718,"body":"would not be willing to audit proton because"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3154.11,"endTime":3157.718,"body":"we accept bitcoin."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3157.894,"endTime":3160.43,"body":"And that's bitcoin we're talking about."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3160.47,"endTime":3160.79,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3160.87,"endTime":3163.81,"body":"So it's just going to take time."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3164.31,"endTime":3165.662,"body":"It's something we can hope"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3164.31,"endTime":3165.662,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3165.806,"endTime":3170.174,"body":"And in the meantime, I'm excited to see how"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3165.806,"endTime":3170.174,"body":"Proton wallet will push bitcoin privacy"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3170.222,"endTime":3174.854,"body":"forward because that's a unique advantage that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3170.222,"endTime":3174.854,"body":"bitcoin does have, is it has a reputation"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3174.942,"endTime":3179.886,"body":"generally for being an above board, okay thing"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3174.942,"endTime":3179.886,"body":"to accept and list and use."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3180.038,"endTime":3185.398,"body":"So anytime that privacy features are built"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3180.038,"endTime":3185.398,"body":"into the wallets and tools that are kind of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3185.414,"endTime":3187.814,"body":"built around bitcoin, it's a huge win."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3187.862,"endTime":3188.462,"body":"It's a huge win."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3188.486,"endTime":3190.21,"body":"So I'm excited to see where you'll take that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3190.67,"endTime":3192.294,"body":"I know I've eaten up a lot of your time."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3192.342,"endTime":3194.614,"body":"You're very busy, man, so I don't want to keep"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3192.342,"endTime":3194.614,"body":"you any longer."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3194.662,"endTime":3196.702,"body":"I just want to say thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3194.662,"endTime":3196.702,"body":"coming on."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3196.766,"endTime":3199.126,"body":"I know there are a ton of questions here that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3196.766,"endTime":3199.126,"body":"we got through."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3199.158,"endTime":3200.854,"body":"We kind of went rapid fire through them."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3200.902,"endTime":3202.63,"body":"But a lot of things that the community really"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3202.67,"endTime":3204.902,"body":"wanted to hear more on, and you did a great"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3202.67,"endTime":3204.902,"body":"job answering them."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3204.926,"endTime":3206.79,"body":"So thank you so much, Andy, for coming on"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3204.926,"endTime":3206.79,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3206.95,"endTime":3207.646,"body":"Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3207.718,"endTime":3210.102,"body":"And, you know, I am personally on Reddit and"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3210.126,"endTime":3211.286,"body":"Twitter sometimes, right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3211.318,"endTime":3214.358,"body":"You know, in the end, we're transparent,"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3214.414,"endTime":3214.63,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3214.67,"endTime":3216.774,"body":"We work for the community, and if there's"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3216.822,"endTime":3220.862,"body":"questions, we're afraid to answer them because"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3216.822,"endTime":3220.862,"body":"I honestly believe if we're not ready to"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3220.886,"endTime":3224.638,"body":"answer the hard questions about something, we"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3220.886,"endTime":3224.638,"body":"shouldn't be doing it."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3224.734,"endTime":3229.438,"body":"So, you know, also happy to have the"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3224.734,"endTime":3229.438,"body":"opportunity to clarify these points, not just"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3229.454,"endTime":3233.598,"body":"for you, but also for the community that"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3229.454,"endTime":3233.598,"body":"follows you and looking forward to continuing"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3233.614,"endTime":3236.126,"body":"the conversation and continuing to engage with"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3233.614,"endTime":3236.126,"body":"everybody in this space."},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3236.198,"endTime":3239.11,"body":"And hopefully we can make this wallets a good"},{"speaker":"Andy Yen","startTime":3236.198,"endTime":3239.11,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3247.05,"endTime":3250.21,"body":"Thanks for listening, and I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3247.05,"endTime":3250.21,"body":"hope you enjoyed this episode of Opt out."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3250.33,"endTime":3253.034,"body":"If you did, please take a moment and subscribe"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3250.33,"endTime":3253.034,"body":"to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3253.122,"endTime":3254.594,"body":"Or if you're already subscribed."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3254.722,"endTime":3256.362,"body":"Share it with one friend or family member."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3256.426,"endTime":3261.658,"body":"This week, as always, you can check out the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3256.426,"endTime":3261.658,"body":"link to the guest content and contact info, as"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3261.674,"endTime":3264.458,"body":"well as links to all of the tools we discussed"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3261.674,"endTime":3264.458,"body":"in today's episode."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3264.594,"endTime":3265.946,"body":"Now get out there and opt out."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3265.978,"endTime":3266.29,"body":"This week."}]}