{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3.88,"endTime":5.953,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":3.88,"endTime":5.953,"body":"jumping in today, Vlad."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":6.089,"endTime":10.537,"body":"I'm super excited to learn more about Kagi,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":6.089,"endTime":10.537,"body":"because it's something that I've been a user"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":10.561,"endTime":13.937,"body":"of, I think, from really close to when y'all"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":10.561,"endTime":13.937,"body":"announced off and on."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":13.961,"endTime":17.329,"body":"I haven't used it as much over the last 12"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":13.961,"endTime":17.329,"body":"months, but we'll get into that as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":17.457,"endTime":21.345,"body":"But it's a really fascinating departure from"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":17.457,"endTime":21.345,"body":"the norm of what people know about search"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":21.385,"endTime":24.177,"body":"engines and now the plethora of things y'all"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":21.385,"endTime":24.177,"body":"are doing."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":24.241,"endTime":26.481,"body":"So looking forward to having you on today."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":26.633,"endTime":28.553,"body":"To kick things off, why don't you just tell us"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":28.569,"endTime":31.889,"body":"a little bit about who you are, a little bit"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":28.569,"endTime":31.889,"body":"of your background and."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":31.927,"endTime":34.425,"body":"And maybe a little bit about what Kagi is as"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":31.927,"endTime":34.425,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":34.765,"endTime":38.653,"body":"Sure. Thank you for having me"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":34.765,"endTime":38.653,"body":"here and thanks for being our user."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":38.829,"endTime":39.741,"body":"My name is Vlad."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":39.813,"endTime":44.565,"body":"I'm the CEO and founder of Kagi, a pretty"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":44.605,"endTime":50.173,"body":"novel approach to search, where we remove all"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":44.605,"endTime":50.173,"body":"the intermediaries between the user and the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":50.189,"endTime":50.949,"body":"search provider."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":50.997,"endTime":56.597,"body":"So no advertiser, no third parties, and people"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":50.997,"endTime":56.597,"body":"pay for search via wallets instead of with"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":56.621,"endTime":57.385,"body":"their data."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":58.215,"endTime":65.863,"body":"And that has allowed us to basically build a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":58.215,"endTime":65.863,"body":"search engine that has best search results in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":65.879,"endTime":72.287,"body":"the world, the best search experience in the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":65.879,"endTime":72.287,"body":"world, and people are willing to pay for and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":72.391,"endTime":79.415,"body":"also have privacy as a cornerstone of our"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":72.391,"endTime":79.415,"body":"service because there's no incentive to do"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":79.455,"endTime":81.075,"body":"anything but user data."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":81.415,"endTime":84.311,"body":"Actually, user data is liability to us."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":84.423,"endTime":85.847,"body":"It's of no use."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":86.031,"endTime":94.655,"body":"So I personally been working in the tech space"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":86.031,"endTime":94.655,"body":"for the last 20 years and previously had a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":94.695,"endTime":97.631,"body":"company in the website management space."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":97.823,"endTime":102.967,"body":"We managed about half a million of websites"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":97.823,"endTime":102.967,"body":"doing security updates, backups, and things"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":102.991,"endTime":103.367,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":103.431,"endTime":107.215,"body":"It sort of gave me necessary domain expertise"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":107.295,"endTime":113.503,"body":"to go into a little bit wider problem, which"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":107.295,"endTime":113.503,"body":"is the problem of search."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":113.599,"endTime":118.075,"body":"And Kagi was launched to public in 2022."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":118.415,"endTime":119.103,"body":"Yeah. So I think."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":119.119,"endTime":120.031,"body":"I think I was pretty early."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":120.063,"endTime":123.263,"body":"I think I logged into Kaki yesterday, and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":120.063,"endTime":123.263,"body":"y'all have a little banner that tells you when"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":123.279,"endTime":123.815,"body":"you joined."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":123.935,"endTime":126.087,"body":"It was like, March 2022."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":126.151,"endTime":127.455,"body":"So cool."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":127.575,"endTime":129.215,"body":"I was pretty early."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":129.295,"endTime":130.835,"body":"That was actually pre launch."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":132.455,"endTime":133.935,"body":"I think I ran into you on"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":132.455,"endTime":133.935,"body":"Twitter."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":133.975,"endTime":136.847,"body":"Maybe it was the place that I kind of got"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":133.975,"endTime":136.847,"body":"exposed to it and then."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":136.911,"endTime":138.279,"body":"And then tested it out really early."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":138.327,"endTime":139.959,"body":"But, yeah, I think that's."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":140.007,"endTime":143.815,"body":"That's one of the most fascinating things for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":140.007,"endTime":143.815,"body":"me is obviously you have a background kind of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":143.935,"endTime":146.675,"body":"outside of the space, but in the IT world."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":147.055,"endTime":150.271,"body":"Why. Why search?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":147.055,"endTime":150.271,"body":"Like, of all the things that you could choose"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":150.303,"endTime":155.239,"body":"to focus on, like, you seem to clearly have a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":150.303,"endTime":155.239,"body":"desire to preserve privacy, to give people"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":155.287,"endTime":160.767,"body":"good user experiences without the kind of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":155.287,"endTime":160.767,"body":"perverse Monetization that we've seen take"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":160.791,"endTime":161.711,"body":"over the space."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":161.863,"endTime":164.275,"body":"Why was search the thing that you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":161.863,"endTime":164.275,"body":"jump in on?"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":164.575,"endTime":166.115,"body":"Sure, that's a great question."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":166.735,"endTime":168.799,"body":"And the answer is twofold."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":168.927,"endTime":175.233,"body":"One is that in 2018 my daughter, the oldest"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":175.289,"endTime":181.009,"body":"one, started going to school and she was given"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":175.289,"endTime":181.009,"body":"a Chrome, the Chromebook, the Google"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":181.057,"endTime":185.017,"body":"Chromebook, you know, Google pre installed and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":181.057,"endTime":185.017,"body":"everything else."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":185.081,"endTime":187.445,"body":"And she was expected to use that every day."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":187.825,"endTime":197.895,"body":"And it hit me that my kid will spend the next"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":187.825,"endTime":197.895,"body":"12 years of her life until adulthood being"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":198.015,"endTime":204.015,"body":"constantly tracked or profile built on"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":198.015,"endTime":204.015,"body":"targeted by advertisers who behavior changed"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":204.135,"endTime":205.235,"body":"and influenced."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":205.855,"endTime":214.319,"body":"And it just hit me really hard that we are"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":205.855,"endTime":214.319,"body":"consenting to that sort of state of things."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":214.487,"endTime":217.675,"body":"And there was really no alternative."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":219.295,"endTime":224.275,"body":"All search engines out there were ad supported"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":219.295,"endTime":224.275,"body":"in one way or the other."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":224.925,"endTime":231.829,"body":"And I did pay for YouTube Premium for her and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":224.925,"endTime":231.829,"body":"her siblings, but there was nothing similar"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":231.917,"endTime":233.549,"body":"you could do in search."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":233.597,"endTime":236.677,"body":"You could not pay for a service that will be"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":236.701,"endTime":239.677,"body":"user centric and have your best interest in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":236.701,"endTime":239.677,"body":"mind."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":239.741,"endTime":246.349,"body":"And at the same time I just noticed that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":239.741,"endTime":246.349,"body":"Google search was getting really, really bad."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":246.397,"endTime":251.223,"body":"People talk a lot about it today, but even six"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":246.397,"endTime":251.223,"body":"years ago was getting worse."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":251.279,"endTime":256.751,"body":"And what really triggered me in a way was I"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":251.279,"endTime":256.751,"body":"think I was searching for something like"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":256.783,"endTime":265.039,"body":"GitLab or Target and the poor company had to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":256.783,"endTime":265.039,"body":"buy an ad on top for their brand name."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":265.087,"endTime":267.959,"body":"And then there was the organic result right"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":265.087,"endTime":267.959,"body":"below it."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":268.047,"endTime":274.191,"body":"But if you don't do it, somebody else just"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":268.047,"endTime":274.191,"body":"buys your keyword and people are misled to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":274.223,"endTime":275.195,"body":"your competitor."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":275.625,"endTime":281.897,"body":"And it just striked me that that was"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":275.625,"endTime":281.897,"body":"incredibly intelligence insulting for me as a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":281.921,"endTime":282.465,"body":"user."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":282.585,"endTime":284.961,"body":"You're showing me two identical results."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":285.113,"endTime":291.217,"body":"And this is when I understood that the search"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":285.113,"endTime":291.217,"body":"engine that we are all using is not built in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":291.241,"endTime":292.553,"body":"my best interest in mind."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":292.649,"endTime":296.609,"body":"It's built with, you know, advertisers best"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":292.649,"endTime":296.609,"body":"interest."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":296.737,"endTime":302.617,"body":"And so just having just sold my previous"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":296.737,"endTime":302.617,"body":"company, having some funds, I decided to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":302.681,"endTime":303.827,"body":"tackle this problem."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":303.961,"endTime":306.135,"body":"I had a fairly good idea how to do it."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":306.215,"endTime":312.007,"body":"I knew from day one that the only way to do"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":306.215,"endTime":312.007,"body":"this right is to have a paid business model"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":312.071,"endTime":317.903,"body":"which will automatically align all incentives"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":312.071,"endTime":317.903,"body":"and actually incentivizes you as a search"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":318.079,"endTime":325.463,"body":"engine to innovate and create better search"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":318.079,"endTime":325.463,"body":"results, better search experiences, otherwise"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":325.519,"endTime":327.407,"body":"the people will not pay for it."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":327.471,"endTime":333.015,"body":"And you know, especially there are so many"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":327.471,"endTime":333.015,"body":"free alternatives outside freeing air quotes."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":333.395,"endTime":337.403,"body":"So yeah, that's how Kaggle started."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":337.579,"endTime":339.987,"body":"I assembled a small team and bootstrapped the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":340.011,"endTime":340.815,"body":"whole thing."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":341.915,"endTime":347.683,"body":"And in June 2022 we launched and had thousands"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":341.915,"endTime":347.683,"body":"of paying customers in month one."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":347.739,"endTime":349.455,"body":"And it just kept growing from there."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":349.795,"endTime":353.139,"body":"Yeah, I think that's an"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":349.795,"endTime":353.139,"body":"interesting point that I didn't think of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":353.187,"endTime":353.803,"body":"really before."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":353.859,"endTime":357.975,"body":"This is the incentives for search providers"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":358.115,"endTime":361.399,"body":"are quite perverse and not in the end user's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":358.115,"endTime":361.399,"body":"interest."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":361.567,"endTime":363.791,"body":"Like I always just thought of it as like they"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":361.567,"endTime":363.791,"body":"have to serve ads."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":363.823,"endTime":367.591,"body":"Okay, like that's an unfortunate part of it,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":363.823,"endTime":367.591,"body":"but that's how they make money."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":367.663,"endTime":371.919,"body":"And like you mentioned before, Coggy, as far"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":367.663,"endTime":371.919,"body":"as I know, there was no paid search engine, so"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":371.927,"endTime":373.839,"body":"you kind of just accept it as the norm."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":373.887,"endTime":377.887,"body":"But when you think about the way that the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":373.887,"endTime":377.887,"body":"incentives actually work, they're incentivized"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":377.951,"endTime":382.463,"body":"to serve you the results that they're paid to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":377.951,"endTime":382.463,"body":"serve rather than the results that you"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":382.519,"endTime":384.791,"body":"actually need for your search."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":384.863,"endTime":390.071,"body":"And I wonder if that's a lot of the reason why"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":384.863,"endTime":390.071,"body":"it's just become widely accepted that Google's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":390.103,"endTime":392.239,"body":"results are just absolutely awful now."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":392.287,"endTime":394.231,"body":"And that's something like even my non"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":394.303,"endTime":401.199,"body":"technical, non privacy loving, they don't care"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":394.303,"endTime":401.199,"body":"that Google is an awful company who abuses"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":401.247,"endTime":405.303,"body":"data and ad monopoly, all those things, but"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":401.247,"endTime":405.303,"body":"they just realized the search sucks and I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":405.319,"endTime":406.127,"body":"can't use it anymore."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":406.191,"endTime":411.911,"body":"So it's interesting, I wonder if that perverse"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":406.191,"endTime":411.911,"body":"financial incentive is what has kind of led to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":411.943,"endTime":414.835,"body":"their downfall in the actual usefulness as a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":411.943,"endTime":414.835,"body":"tool."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":415.185,"endTime":421.497,"body":"Yeah, when you think about it,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":415.185,"endTime":421.497,"body":"even if you have an ad blocker in Google, the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":421.521,"endTime":427.085,"body":"results that you get served are not the best"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":421.521,"endTime":427.085,"body":"possible results for you."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":427.585,"endTime":432.245,"body":"And Google is incentivized that you spend more"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":427.585,"endTime":432.245,"body":"time searching."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":432.745,"endTime":436.897,"body":"So you search, you don't find, you click"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":432.745,"endTime":436.897,"body":"through, you come back, you search again."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":437.001,"endTime":443.945,"body":"So the more of that, the more, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":437.001,"endTime":443.945,"body":"possibility for interaction with ads there is."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":445.005,"endTime":450.069,"body":"And so it's not just enough to have an ad"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":445.005,"endTime":450.069,"body":"blocker when the results themselves are just"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":450.117,"endTime":450.949,"body":"good enough."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":451.117,"endTime":453.349,"body":"They're just good enough to be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":453.397,"endTime":460.225,"body":"trying to be better than anyone else is what"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":453.397,"endTime":460.225,"body":"Google, you know, has as a goal, basically."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":460.805,"endTime":467.333,"body":"And they are optimizing for what puts money in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":460.805,"endTime":467.333,"body":"their pockets, which is advertising money."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":467.389,"endTime":467.581,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":467.613,"endTime":469.945,"body":"You're not putting the money in their pockets."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":470.365,"endTime":474.785,"body":"As a user, Kagi has it completely inverse."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":475.085,"endTime":477.613,"body":"Like one of the most important thing for us is"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":477.669,"endTime":479.213,"body":"time to answer."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":479.349,"endTime":481.365,"body":"Like we want you to spend the least possible"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":481.445,"endTime":482.245,"body":"time on Kagi."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":482.285,"endTime":487.133,"body":"We want you to find what you're looking for"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":482.285,"endTime":487.133,"body":"and talk to your results most of the time."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":487.189,"endTime":491.781,"body":"And you know, anecdotal evidence is that that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":487.189,"endTime":491.781,"body":"is actually the case."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":491.933,"endTime":497.781,"body":"And we had some people who counted their"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":491.933,"endTime":497.781,"body":"search history in Google before they moved to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":497.813,"endTime":503.445,"body":"Kagi and they reported halving the number of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":497.813,"endTime":503.445,"body":"searches they do in a month, for example, like"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":503.485,"endTime":508.705,"body":"they would go from thousand to 500 just"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":503.485,"endTime":508.705,"body":"because you're able to find things faster."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":510.045,"endTime":515.669,"body":"And really it's the alignment of incentives is"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":510.045,"endTime":515.669,"body":"if we are not able to do that, Nobody would"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":515.717,"endTime":518.605,"body":"pay $10 a month for Cognizant."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":518.645,"endTime":522.773,"body":"So that alignment and incentives is what"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":522.829,"endTime":526.605,"body":"drives creation of a user centric product."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":526.905,"endTime":528.873,"body":"And Google is user centric also."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":528.929,"endTime":531.285,"body":"Or should I say customer centric also."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":531.625,"endTime":534.657,"body":"The only problem is the customer is the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":531.625,"endTime":534.657,"body":"advertiser obviously."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":534.801,"endTime":535.857,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":535.921,"endTime":537.617,"body":"A little bit different from what people think"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":537.641,"endTime":539.001,"body":"of when they think of Google."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":539.153,"endTime":539.417,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":539.441,"endTime":543.657,"body":"And that's definitely, I think the clearest"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":539.441,"endTime":543.657,"body":"departure when you look at Kogi is obviously"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":543.721,"endTime":544.641,"body":"no ads."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":544.793,"endTime":550.849,"body":"A model that is built around the user actually"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":544.793,"endTime":550.849,"body":"being the focus which is I think a key"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":550.897,"endTime":552.457,"body":"differentiation from the competition."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":552.601,"endTime":554.361,"body":"But is there anything else that kind of jumps"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":554.393,"endTime":558.985,"body":"out at you that you feel like separates Kagi"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":554.393,"endTime":558.985,"body":"from especially like I'm thinking especially"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":559.025,"endTime":564.529,"body":"for like the audience of opt out separating"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":559.025,"endTime":564.529,"body":"you from things like DuckDuckGo or the Self"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":564.577,"endTime":570.065,"body":"hosted options like C and Google or Google,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":564.577,"endTime":570.065,"body":"these ones that are at least a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":570.105,"endTime":574.561,"body":"privacy preserving if they're not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":570.105,"endTime":574.561,"body":"fixing anything wrong with the actual results"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":574.633,"endTime":575.569,"body":"being served."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":575.737,"endTime":577.145,"body":"Yeah, it's definitely."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":577.265,"endTime":579.937,"body":"Number one spelling point of Cogi is the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":580.041,"endTime":583.895,"body":"quality of search results we have by far."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":584.435,"endTime":588.859,"body":"And you know, don't take my word for it but"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":584.435,"endTime":588.859,"body":"anyone paying for Kagi, that's the main reason"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":588.907,"endTime":589.675,"body":"they do."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":589.835,"endTime":593.655,"body":"Kagi finds things other search engines can."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":594.675,"endTime":597.975,"body":"Kagi optimizes the algorithm itself."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":598.355,"endTime":605.123,"body":"We downrank sites that have a lot of ads and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":598.355,"endTime":605.123,"body":"trackers on themselves and we surface small"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":605.179,"endTime":609.389,"body":"websites, personal websites, blogs, forums, so"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":605.179,"endTime":609.389,"body":"human discussions."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":609.507,"endTime":611.017,"body":"So we uprank that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":611.201,"endTime":613.921,"body":"We actually have a project called Mole Web"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":613.993,"endTime":615.033,"body":"which is a collection."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":615.089,"endTime":621.965,"body":"It's a manually curated collection of small"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":615.089,"endTime":621.965,"body":"blogs and personal website that anyone can"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":622.745,"endTime":623.441,"body":"contribute to."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":623.473,"endTime":626.297,"body":"It's open source and it drives a portion of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":626.321,"endTime":634.433,"body":"our index and we actually surface content from"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":626.321,"endTime":634.433,"body":"these small blogs that otherwise never"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":634.489,"endTime":636.685,"body":"surfaces in mainstream search engines."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":637.715,"endTime":640.547,"body":"So the quality of search is one thing."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":640.651,"endTime":644.107,"body":"The other one is just innovation in the search"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":644.211,"endTime":645.015,"body":"interface."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":645.595,"endTime":647.571,"body":"We stagnated for 20 years."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":647.723,"endTime":651.907,"body":"Even non Google search engine have not"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":651.931,"endTime":654.299,"body":"produced really any innovation in the space."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":654.467,"endTime":658.095,"body":"All the modest minds that these companies are"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":658.515,"endTime":662.915,"body":"tasked with optimizing for ad click through"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":658.515,"endTime":662.915,"body":"not really the search experience."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":663.035,"endTime":669.097,"body":"So we knew from early days that we would also"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":663.035,"endTime":669.097,"body":"need to innovate in the search experience."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":669.161,"endTime":675.417,"body":"So for example in Kagi one of the favorite"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":669.161,"endTime":675.417,"body":"feature of our users is you can block a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":675.441,"endTime":679.329,"body":"website you don't like and it will never ever"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":675.441,"endTime":679.329,"body":"again show up in your results."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":679.377,"endTime":680.641,"body":"It's going to be dead."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":680.833,"endTime":683.085,"body":"And we actually publish a."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":683.465,"endTime":690.385,"body":"There's a Public leaderboard of most blocked"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":683.465,"endTime":690.385,"body":"and most, you know, like, hated websites."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":690.465,"endTime":700.209,"body":"And there's like also you can promote websites"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":690.465,"endTime":700.209,"body":"so you can find all of that kagi.com stats and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":700.257,"endTime":705.965,"body":"so that, you know, this sort of search feed"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":700.257,"endTime":705.965,"body":"personalization where we are not trying to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":706.585,"endTime":712.529,"body":"impose what we think are the best results for"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":706.585,"endTime":712.529,"body":"you and our own biases and whatnot, but we let"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":712.577,"endTime":716.545,"body":"you moderate and be in full control of your"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":712.577,"endTime":716.545,"body":"search feed."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":716.585,"endTime":723.805,"body":"If you don't like, you know, particular"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":716.585,"endTime":723.805,"body":"website, you know, political affiliation,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":724.345,"endTime":730.767,"body":"whatever, right, you are in control and you"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":724.345,"endTime":730.767,"body":"can blog these websites and promote the ones"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":730.791,"endTime":731.755,"body":"that you like."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":732.095,"endTime":734.875,"body":"I'll give you another example that's very"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":732.095,"endTime":734.875,"body":"popular."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":735.175,"endTime":740.863,"body":"We have a feature called lenses where"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":735.175,"endTime":740.863,"body":"basically you can create a search lens with a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":740.879,"endTime":744.391,"body":"subset of websites and search only through"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":740.879,"endTime":744.391,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":744.463,"endTime":749.007,"body":"So people create a lens for their hobby sites,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":744.463,"endTime":749.007,"body":"for recipes."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":749.191,"endTime":753.475,"body":"We have a couple of built in like for"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":749.191,"endTime":753.475,"body":"programming or academic research."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":754.315,"endTime":757.747,"body":"So basically you search only within the space"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":754.315,"endTime":757.747,"body":"of these websites."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":757.771,"endTime":761.083,"body":"So these are very, you know, two very simple,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":757.771,"endTime":761.083,"body":"I would say innovations."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":761.139,"endTime":767.083,"body":"Now looking back, but it took 20 years for"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":761.139,"endTime":767.083,"body":"somebody to bring them to search because"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":767.139,"endTime":770.455,"body":"nobody was really interested in what the user"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":767.139,"endTime":770.455,"body":"wants."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":771.755,"endTime":778.587,"body":"And so Kage really has, you know, at least 50"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":771.755,"endTime":778.587,"body":"features like that and most of our users don't"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":778.611,"endTime":780.847,"body":"even know or use all of them."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":780.911,"endTime":784.435,"body":"But we are really investing a lot on, on"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":784.855,"endTime":787.195,"body":"bringing the search experience to the next"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":784.855,"endTime":787.195,"body":"level."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":787.495,"endTime":789.463,"body":"Yeah, that was one of the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":787.495,"endTime":789.463,"body":"things that jumped out at me."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":789.519,"endTime":794.183,"body":"I think it was available right when I started"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":789.519,"endTime":794.183,"body":"using Kagi was the pin and block functionality"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":794.359,"endTime":796.847,"body":"because just the ability to know like I have."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":796.951,"endTime":802.583,"body":"I'm a huge fan of RSS feeds and so I have a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":796.951,"endTime":802.583,"body":"long list of personal blogs that I really"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":802.599,"endTime":806.383,"body":"appreciate and that have a lot of good domain"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":802.599,"endTime":806.383,"body":"information for the searches that I want to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":806.399,"endTime":806.551,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":806.583,"endTime":810.295,"body":"So just being able to pin those pin my own"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":806.583,"endTime":810.295,"body":"blog to be able to find the things when I'm"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":810.335,"endTime":813.723,"body":"quickly trying to share a link with somebody"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":810.335,"endTime":813.723,"body":"instead of trying to go to my own blog and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":813.739,"endTime":814.003,"body":"find it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":814.019,"endTime":817.635,"body":"I can actually find it faster in Coggy by"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":814.019,"endTime":817.635,"body":"searching for something that's within it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":817.675,"endTime":822.123,"body":"And then I know that my site's going to be"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":817.675,"endTime":822.123,"body":"pinned and then the block feature as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":822.179,"endTime":826.947,"body":"I did just look up the stats because I was"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":822.179,"endTime":826.947,"body":"curious and I'm not at all shocked by most of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":826.971,"endTime":832.243,"body":"the ones that are up here, like Pinterest,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":826.971,"endTime":832.243,"body":"which is polluted searches for a decade now."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":832.299,"endTime":837.603,"body":"Quora things that generally are the most"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":832.299,"endTime":837.603,"body":"useless results."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":837.779,"endTime":842.305,"body":"It is a fantastic way to get, get those things"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":837.779,"endTime":842.305,"body":"just purged from your list."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":842.425,"endTime":848.281,"body":"And I think the most powerful part of it is"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":842.425,"endTime":848.281,"body":"it's not some supreme overlord deciding this"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":848.313,"endTime":852.017,"body":"site or these sites shouldn't be seen in ads,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":848.313,"endTime":852.017,"body":"or these should be deranked, or these should"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":852.041,"endTime":853.473,"body":"be ranked higher."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":853.609,"endTime":856.753,"body":"But you, the user, get to build your own"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":853.609,"endTime":856.753,"body":"filter."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":856.809,"endTime":861.041,"body":"You get a really good base set of search"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":856.809,"endTime":861.041,"body":"results and then you get to say, I really"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":861.073,"endTime":865.329,"body":"appreciate things from Reddit more than other"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":861.073,"endTime":865.329,"body":"things, or I really don't want to see Reddit"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":865.377,"endTime":869.111,"body":"replies and I want to focus on things like"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":865.377,"endTime":869.111,"body":"small blogs like that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":869.273,"endTime":874.611,"body":"That type of ability to craft your own"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":869.273,"endTime":874.611,"body":"algorithm is something that has really stood"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":874.643,"endTime":878.227,"body":"out to me when using Kagi to make it something"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":874.643,"endTime":878.227,"body":"that's much more personalized."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":878.331,"endTime":883.779,"body":"And that takes like, I will say it's quite a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":878.331,"endTime":883.779,"body":"barrier of entry for me at least because it's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":883.827,"endTime":885.131,"body":"this whole novel idea."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":885.203,"endTime":885.827,"body":"Like I'm used to."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":885.851,"endTime":887.691,"body":"Just the search engine will do everything for"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":887.723,"endTime":888.299,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":888.467,"endTime":891.379,"body":"And while Kagi does out of the box, it's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":891.467,"endTime":894.803,"body":"interesting because there's so many features"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":891.467,"endTime":894.803,"body":"and so many toggles you can play with and so"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":894.819,"endTime":900.395,"body":"many new things that you can tweak to see what"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":894.819,"endTime":900.395,"body":"gives you the even better than the default"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":900.435,"endTime":903.235,"body":"Kagi results for your very specific set of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":900.435,"endTime":903.235,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":903.275,"endTime":907.731,"body":"So it's definitely kind of like a kid in a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":903.275,"endTime":907.731,"body":"candy store thing where you don't know what to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":907.763,"endTime":910.251,"body":"turn on next or tweak next or add to next."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":910.283,"endTime":912.275,"body":"But that's a great problem to have rather than"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":912.315,"endTime":916.055,"body":"just saying please Google, please give me the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":912.315,"endTime":916.055,"body":"result that I need here."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":916.795,"endTime":920.415,"body":"Yeah, we do try to have"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":916.795,"endTime":920.415,"body":"reasonable set of defaults."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":920.755,"endTime":927.005,"body":"It is good enough for most people, but also we"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":920.755,"endTime":927.005,"body":"understand that most of our users are sort of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":927.045,"endTime":933.757,"body":"power users, tech savvy and they like their"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":927.045,"endTime":933.757,"body":"knobs and buttons and to be in control."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":933.901,"endTime":938.301,"body":"And we build these and you don't have to use"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":933.901,"endTime":938.301,"body":"them, but if you use them, you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":938.333,"endTime":939.661,"body":"improve the experience for yourself."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":939.733,"endTime":941.901,"body":"You're probably gonna enjoy the process of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":941.933,"endTime":942.585,"body":"tweaking."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":943.245,"endTime":946.133,"body":"You know, we even allow you to have a custom"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":943.245,"endTime":946.133,"body":"css."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":946.229,"endTime":951.583,"body":"You can completely change the interface and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":946.229,"endTime":951.583,"body":"people have published like numerous themes and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":951.749,"endTime":955.411,"body":"whatnot, so you can really make coggy your"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":951.749,"endTime":955.411,"body":"own."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":955.483,"endTime":963.055,"body":"And that's the whole point of putting user in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":955.483,"endTime":963.055,"body":"the driving seat and letting them decide."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":965.155,"endTime":971.011,"body":"I mean, even the personalization feature that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":965.155,"endTime":971.011,"body":"other search engines could easily adopt, they"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":971.043,"endTime":973.387,"body":"cannot because of this conflict of interest."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":973.491,"endTime":976.419,"body":"And probably the advertiser wouldn't like"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":976.507,"endTime":977.971,"body":"people blocking them or whatever."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":978.043,"endTime":978.655,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":980.055,"endTime":985.391,"body":"So, so that, that simple thing, aligning"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":980.055,"endTime":985.391,"body":"incentives goes very, very far."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":985.583,"endTime":990.895,"body":"And yeah, it's, it's wild"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":985.583,"endTime":990.895,"body":"how much just deciding to have a paid model"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":991.055,"endTime":996.247,"body":"which isn't even like this wild like"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":991.055,"endTime":996.247,"body":"altruistic isn't necessarily the right word"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":996.271,"endTime":1000.615,"body":"here, but it's not like this crazy idea of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":996.271,"endTime":1000.615,"body":"giving something back or making something"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1000.655,"endTime":1004.407,"body":"totally free because the actual benefit here"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1000.655,"endTime":1004.407,"body":"is that it's paid so the incentives are"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1004.431,"endTime":1005.079,"body":"aligned."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1005.207,"endTime":1010.015,"body":"And this is kind of a shift that has to happen"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1005.207,"endTime":1010.015,"body":"in our mentality as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1010.055,"endTime":1014.207,"body":"And I know it's been talked to death, but just"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1010.055,"endTime":1014.207,"body":"this idea of if you're not paying with your"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1014.231,"endTime":1015.447,"body":"money, you're paying with your data."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1015.551,"endTime":1019.375,"body":"And everyone's just become so used to that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1015.551,"endTime":1019.375,"body":"that it is like when I'm talking to friends."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1019.415,"endTime":1022.919,"body":"I was talking to a friend last night about"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1019.415,"endTime":1022.919,"body":"Kagi and was just sharing the pricing and he"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1022.927,"endTime":1026.135,"body":"was like, I've never even thought about"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1022.927,"endTime":1026.135,"body":"spending $10 a month on search."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1026.295,"endTime":1029.527,"body":"But he's really interested because of all the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1026.295,"endTime":1029.527,"body":"things that we've been talking about."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1029.591,"endTime":1034.86,"body":"And I think when you realize how much of your"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1029.591,"endTime":1034.86,"body":"life you spend searching, it's a, it's a very"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1034.892,"endTime":1035.684,"body":"worthwhile investment."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1035.764,"endTime":1042.372,"body":"So it is just a fascinating area how just"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1035.764,"endTime":1042.372,"body":"shifting the financial incentives makes it so"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1042.388,"endTime":1047.428,"body":"much more beneficial for the end user rather"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1042.388,"endTime":1047.428,"body":"than, like you said, the customer of Google,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1047.476,"endTime":1050.544,"body":"who are the ad companies, not the actual end"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1047.476,"endTime":1050.544,"body":"user."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1050.964,"endTime":1051.364,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1051.404,"endTime":1056.524,"body":"And to be honest, it's very"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1051.404,"endTime":1056.524,"body":"hard to compete with perceived free services"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1056.604,"endTime":1057.004,"body":"out there."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1057.044,"endTime":1058.5,"body":"We're in a very unique position."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1058.572,"endTime":1065.305,"body":"I don't know of a tech company that sort of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1058.572,"endTime":1065.305,"body":"how to enter the market in such a way that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1065.345,"endTime":1069.897,"body":"they have to compete with free and well"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1065.345,"endTime":1069.897,"body":"established competitors."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1069.921,"endTime":1072.085,"body":"So it makes it extremely hard."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1072.385,"endTime":1075.593,"body":"And not because there's something wrong with"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1075.609,"endTime":1076.241,"body":"what we are doing."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1076.273,"endTime":1079.673,"body":"We are proving that this is a superior way to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1079.689,"endTime":1079.969,"body":"do it."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1080.017,"endTime":1084.377,"body":"But people have been exposed to this fate of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1084.401,"endTime":1085.965,"body":"things for 25 years."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1086.285,"endTime":1089.973,"body":"And it's one of the most entrenched habits in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1086.285,"endTime":1089.973,"body":"our society that free."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1090.029,"endTime":1098.573,"body":"So the search is somehow free and God given"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1090.029,"endTime":1098.573,"body":"and you know, granted to us where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1098.749,"endTime":1099.829,"body":"that's not true."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1099.877,"endTime":1105.973,"body":"And it's one of the most profitable and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1099.877,"endTime":1105.973,"body":"biggest companies in the world and the world's"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1106.109,"endTime":1108.425,"body":"biggest advertiser behind it."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1108.765,"endTime":1116.535,"body":"And so it takes time, it takes time for people"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1108.765,"endTime":1116.535,"body":"to understand that and really start valuing"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1117.115,"endTime":1122.203,"body":"access to information and specifically access"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1117.115,"endTime":1122.203,"body":"to information that's provided in their best"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1122.259,"endTime":1122.855,"body":"interest."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1123.715,"endTime":1129.267,"body":"That's a very, very important thing for"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1123.715,"endTime":1129.267,"body":"everyone and the society in general."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1129.451,"endTime":1130.067,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1130.091,"endTime":1131.643,"body":"It's a much bigger issue than just being able"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1131.659,"endTime":1134.979,"body":"to find the random search result for the thing"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1131.659,"endTime":1134.979,"body":"you're looking for."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1135.027,"endTime":1138.763,"body":"But if people can't freely access information"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1135.027,"endTime":1138.763,"body":"that's out there on the Internet and they're"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1138.819,"endTime":1145.127,"body":"trusting a few centralized entities to serve"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1138.819,"endTime":1145.127,"body":"the entire Internet to them when they're"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1145.151,"endTime":1151.247,"body":"searching for things, that presents a massive"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1145.151,"endTime":1151.247,"body":"chokehold for those companies on how the free"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1151.271,"endTime":1152.271,"body":"flow of information happens."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1152.303,"endTime":1158.007,"body":"So that is a much broader topic as well that I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1152.303,"endTime":1158.007,"body":"think we were talking a little bit before we"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1158.031,"endTime":1164.151,"body":"started recording here about just kind of how"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1158.031,"endTime":1164.151,"body":"the human freedom side of privacy alongside"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1164.223,"endTime":1165.455,"body":"the view of privacy."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1165.535,"endTime":1171.637,"body":"Just so that I don't have to be part of this"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1165.535,"endTime":1171.637,"body":"crazy corporate ad monopoly world that we've"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1171.661,"endTime":1172.461,"body":"fallen into."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1172.613,"endTime":1174.093,"body":"Those things so easily intertwine."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1174.149,"endTime":1178.645,"body":"Because I think that's an interesting example"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1174.149,"endTime":1178.645,"body":"that most people don't think of as well is if"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1178.685,"endTime":1183.101,"body":"everyone's using Google for search results,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1178.685,"endTime":1183.101,"body":"guess who has a complete monopoly on the flow"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1183.133,"endTime":1184.749,"body":"of information on the Internet?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1184.837,"endTime":1188.581,"body":"Because unless you know the specific website"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1184.837,"endTime":1188.581,"body":"you want to get information from, you're only"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1188.613,"endTime":1192.085,"body":"going to be able to get it through their"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1188.613,"endTime":1192.085,"body":"search results and they have complete black"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1192.125,"endTime":1193.181,"body":"box control over that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1193.213,"endTime":1199.045,"body":"Which is kind of a human freedom angle of the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1193.213,"endTime":1199.045,"body":"search provider arena."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1199.205,"endTime":1203.453,"body":"Well, there is another angle to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1199.205,"endTime":1203.453,"body":"that is that the kind of economy that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1203.629,"endTime":1210.149,"body":"incentivizes is this creation of massive"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1203.629,"endTime":1210.149,"body":"amounts of low quality content that's"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1210.317,"endTime":1211.709,"body":"monetized with ads."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1211.837,"endTime":1216.465,"body":"And 99% of the web today is just useless spam."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1217.805,"endTime":1224.631,"body":"That the purpose of which is to show ads and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1217.805,"endTime":1224.631,"body":"that even proliferated to bigger size."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1224.703,"endTime":1231.727,"body":"Like you could barely find any news website"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1224.703,"endTime":1231.727,"body":"that has high quality journalism."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1231.791,"endTime":1236.195,"body":"The purpose of most news today is also to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1231.791,"endTime":1236.195,"body":"monetize with ad views."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1236.775,"endTime":1246.375,"body":"So this whole ad based economy has not created"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1236.775,"endTime":1246.375,"body":"the largest surveillance system in history and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1246.415,"endTime":1256.345,"body":"the largest behavior changing system in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1246.415,"endTime":1256.345,"body":"history, but also have ruined what the basic"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1256.385,"endTime":1257.417,"body":"idea of web was."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1257.481,"endTime":1266.201,"body":"To be this place where we fair and self"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1257.481,"endTime":1266.201,"body":"express and be creative and things like that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1266.313,"endTime":1274.073,"body":"And it's 99% driven by this ad based economy"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1266.313,"endTime":1274.073,"body":"today which creates very, very bad incentives"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1274.129,"endTime":1278.123,"body":"for the overall healthiness of the open band."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1278.299,"endTime":1279.187,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1279.251,"endTime":1281.283,"body":"It makes it all the more essential that we, we"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1281.339,"endTime":1287.371,"body":"have these tools and we opt into these tools"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1281.339,"endTime":1287.371,"body":"to, to push back on that kind of, that broken"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1287.443,"endTime":1290.495,"body":"system that unfortunately has become the web"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1287.443,"endTime":1290.495,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1292.315,"endTime":1296.811,"body":"A question that's kind of always bugged me"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1292.315,"endTime":1296.811,"body":"when it's come to Kagi and I do want to get"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1296.843,"endTime":1301.107,"body":"more into the other things y'all are doing"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1296.843,"endTime":1301.107,"body":"because like I noticed I feel like I haven't"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1301.131,"endTime":1304.255,"body":"been paying much attention to COGI over the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1301.131,"endTime":1304.255,"body":"last like 12 months maybe."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1304.615,"endTime":1309.831,"body":"And I was just catching up, getting, getting"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1304.615,"endTime":1309.831,"body":"my computer set up back to COGI and looking"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1309.863,"endTime":1311.791,"body":"and you'll have a lot of things outside of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1309.863,"endTime":1311.791,"body":"search."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1311.823,"endTime":1314.463,"body":"So I do, I do want to touch on those as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1314.519,"endTime":1320.319,"body":"But something that's kind of always bugged me"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1314.519,"endTime":1320.319,"body":"from the privacy perspective is there is one"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1320.447,"endTime":1326.143,"body":"downside that I see to the approach that Coggy"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1320.447,"endTime":1326.143,"body":"takes over a free search engine, which is that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1326.199,"endTime":1329.755,"body":"you necessarily have to have an account and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1326.199,"endTime":1329.755,"body":"you have to pay for that account."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1330.105,"endTime":1335.065,"body":"Y'all do have some like some non ID to payment"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1330.105,"endTime":1335.065,"body":"methods like Bitcoin and Lightning that you"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1335.105,"endTime":1340.137,"body":"support, but it still means that all of your"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1335.105,"endTime":1340.137,"body":"searches are potentially tied back to a single"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1340.201,"endTime":1340.805,"body":"account."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1341.265,"endTime":1345.297,"body":"I know that y'all have a very clear no logging"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1341.265,"endTime":1345.297,"body":"policy and you have mentioned as well that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1345.321,"endTime":1350.485,"body":"just the financial incentives are misaligned"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1345.321,"endTime":1350.485,"body":"for you to collect user data."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1350.905,"endTime":1354.297,"body":"But I'd love to hear you speak more on that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1350.905,"endTime":1354.297,"body":"kind of that concern because I know that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1354.321,"endTime":1358.477,"body":"that's one that I have had kind of since I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1354.321,"endTime":1358.477,"body":"started using Kagi and was a little bit of the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1358.501,"endTime":1361.973,"body":"reason why I backed away from Kagi initially,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1358.501,"endTime":1361.973,"body":"even though I'm coming back and starting to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1361.989,"endTime":1362.789,"body":"use it again now."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1362.877,"endTime":1368.157,"body":"But that's also one that I've heard repeated"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1362.877,"endTime":1368.157,"body":"by several people in the kind of sphere of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1368.181,"endTime":1369.301,"body":"influence that I have."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1369.413,"endTime":1370.829,"body":"So I'd love to hear more of your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1370.877,"endTime":1376.865,"body":"around the privacy expectations and the pros"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1370.877,"endTime":1376.865,"body":"and cons of having an account for your search."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1377.205,"endTime":1382.229,"body":"Yeah. So let me just say that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1377.205,"endTime":1382.229,"body":"we absolutely don't save your searches, nor"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1382.317,"endTime":1386.445,"body":"have any desire, benefit or will to do that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1386.745,"endTime":1389.605,"body":"The user data is just a liability for us."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1391.585,"endTime":1394.805,"body":"You know, we want your five or ten dollars a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1391.585,"endTime":1394.805,"body":"month."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1395.425,"endTime":1396.497,"body":"That's all we need."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1396.561,"endTime":1401.285,"body":"And so we take this very seriously."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1402.585,"endTime":1409.225,"body":"One of the things that we did over time was"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1402.585,"endTime":1409.225,"body":"allow people to create accounts."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1409.305,"endTime":1413.043,"body":"Well, let me just say that you need to collect"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1409.305,"endTime":1413.043,"body":"money somehow."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1413.179,"endTime":1419.763,"body":"So this is the reason we have an account and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1413.179,"endTime":1419.763,"body":"sometimes people, you know, forgot a password,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1419.819,"endTime":1421.475,"body":"they contact, support, things like that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1421.515,"endTime":1424.975,"body":"So in a paid service you kind of need to have"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1421.515,"endTime":1424.975,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1425.635,"endTime":1429.003,"body":"So over the years we have introduced several"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1425.635,"endTime":1429.003,"body":"options."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1429.139,"endTime":1432.619,"body":"One of them is, first of all, you don't even"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1429.139,"endTime":1432.619,"body":"need an email address."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1432.707,"endTime":1434.611,"body":"Like you can use a fake email address."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1434.763,"endTime":1437.757,"body":"Again, we don't care about email address."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1437.901,"endTime":1440.165,"body":"That's the thing you use to log into your"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1440.205,"endTime":1440.453,"body":"account."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1440.509,"endTime":1441.589,"body":"It can be anything."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1441.757,"endTime":1445.445,"body":"If you use a fake email address, then"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1441.757,"endTime":1445.445,"body":"obviously you cannot restore that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1445.605,"endTime":1448.145,"body":"But other than that, it's up to you."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1448.765,"endTime":1454.765,"body":"The other thing we added, I think was last"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1448.765,"endTime":1454.765,"body":"year was support for Bitcoin and Bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1454.805,"endTime":1462.157,"body":"Lightning to further sort of distance yourself"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1454.805,"endTime":1462.157,"body":"to any payment methods that could be trackable"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1462.221,"endTime":1462.989,"body":"and things like that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1463.037,"endTime":1465.105,"body":"I'm not an expert in that community."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1465.655,"endTime":1468.079,"body":"I know that Bitcoin mining is pretty good."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1468.127,"endTime":1469.583,"body":"I know there are some other Alternatives like"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1469.599,"endTime":1474.247,"body":"Monero and things like that, we haven't"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1469.599,"endTime":1474.247,"body":"explored them yet because frankly we don't"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1474.271,"endTime":1478.555,"body":"want to be in the billing business, we want to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1474.271,"endTime":1478.555,"body":"be in the search business."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1478.935,"endTime":1487.455,"body":"So we thought that these two combining"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1478.935,"endTime":1487.455,"body":"reusable email address ping with Bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1487.495,"endTime":1493.097,"body":"Lightning provides you, at least from a user"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1487.495,"endTime":1493.097,"body":"standpoint, regardless of what do we say in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1493.121,"endTime":1500.005,"body":"our privacy policy, a pretty good sense of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1493.121,"endTime":1500.005,"body":"security."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1501.065,"endTime":1508.017,"body":"The thing that we are working on right now"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1501.065,"endTime":1508.017,"body":"that I'm happy to sort of announce is we are"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1508.041,"endTime":1512.289,"body":"working on a blind authentication token"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1508.041,"endTime":1512.289,"body":"method."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1512.377,"endTime":1518.871,"body":"So basically privacy paths for search and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1512.377,"endTime":1518.871,"body":"we're hoping to launch this in the next few"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1518.903,"endTime":1519.383,"body":"weeks."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1519.519,"endTime":1527.207,"body":"Basically it will be a browser extension and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1519.519,"endTime":1527.207,"body":"when you use that there will be a technical"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1527.271,"endTime":1533.751,"body":"guarantee then that your search cannot be"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1527.271,"endTime":1533.751,"body":"associated with your account even if you want"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1533.783,"endTime":1534.355,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1534.935,"endTime":1540.479,"body":"So that is, I think will be the last piece of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1534.935,"endTime":1540.479,"body":"the puzzle that we have worked on the last six"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1540.527,"endTime":1547.183,"body":"months from proof of concept to now fully"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1540.527,"endTime":1547.183,"body":"integrated browser extension."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1547.319,"endTime":1559.639,"body":"And after that the users will have 100% secure"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1547.319,"endTime":1559.639,"body":"method of knowing that what they do on Kagi is"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1559.687,"endTime":1565.275,"body":"going to stay private, even if Kagi somehow"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1559.687,"endTime":1565.275,"body":"wanted to know what they're searching for."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1566.255,"endTime":1574.481,"body":"So we went like the full circle there and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1566.255,"endTime":1574.481,"body":"listen to our user community and with the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1574.513,"endTime":1581.745,"body":"launch of this new technology, I think we are"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1574.513,"endTime":1581.745,"body":"accomplishing, you know, the older"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1581.785,"endTime":1584.377,"body":"requirements by this community."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1584.561,"endTime":1585.345,"body":"Yeah, no kidding."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1585.385,"endTime":1587.049,"body":"That was going to be my follow up question."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1587.097,"endTime":1591.377,"body":"If you didn't mention that was I would have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1587.097,"endTime":1591.377,"body":"been very curious if you were working on any"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1591.401,"endTime":1596.209,"body":"kind of blinded auth scheme because that seems"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1591.401,"endTime":1596.209,"body":"like the perfect fit where you can still have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1596.257,"endTime":1600.863,"body":"paid credentials but you don't have to link"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1596.257,"endTime":1600.863,"body":"them to your actual searches, which is a, an"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1600.879,"endTime":1602.327,"body":"immensely powerful thing."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1602.511,"endTime":1605.607,"body":"Well, and it's provable, which"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1602.511,"endTime":1605.607,"body":"is the main point."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1605.791,"endTime":1609.423,"body":"So people, you know, want that peace of mind,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1605.791,"endTime":1609.423,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1609.479,"endTime":1612.031,"body":"Yeah, like you said, the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1609.479,"endTime":1612.031,"body":"financial incentives aren't there for you to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1612.063,"endTime":1617.295,"body":"log, but who knows what could change in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1612.063,"endTime":1617.295,"body":"future or how you could be coerced into"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1617.335,"endTime":1618.983,"body":"logging searches or something in the future."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1619.039,"endTime":1624.247,"body":"So it's really important to have that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1619.039,"endTime":1624.247,"body":"technical barrier as well to prevent that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1624.271,"endTime":1625.167,"body":"ability to link together."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1625.231,"endTime":1627.355,"body":"And honestly that was my kind of biggest,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1627.725,"endTime":1629.717,"body":"biggest concern and drawback initially."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1629.861,"endTime":1633.741,"body":"Paying with Bitcoin and Lightning are very"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1629.861,"endTime":1633.741,"body":"essential pieces of that because at least then"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1633.773,"endTime":1634.877,"body":"you can do so."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1635.061,"endTime":1636.637,"body":"You can have your account in a way that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1636.661,"endTime":1640.477,"body":"doesn't link your identity or link at least"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1636.661,"endTime":1640.477,"body":"your real name, et cetera, from your credit"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1640.501,"endTime":1642.205,"body":"card directly to your account."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1642.245,"endTime":1645.805,"body":"So that at least was kind of like the minimum"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1642.245,"endTime":1645.805,"body":"bar that I feel like y'all hit."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1645.845,"endTime":1649.189,"body":"Well, and that at least allowed you to have a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1645.845,"endTime":1649.189,"body":"pseudonymous account and not have everything"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1649.237,"endTime":1650.625,"body":"tied directly to your id."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1651.245,"endTime":1656.377,"body":"But Blinded Auth will be a really, really"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1651.245,"endTime":1656.377,"body":"powerful move forward and I think will be a, a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1656.401,"endTime":1661.209,"body":"huge part of especially the communities I'm in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1656.401,"endTime":1661.209,"body":"being willing to jump in and use Kagi"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1661.257,"endTime":1663.473,"body":"regularly, especially with already having"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1661.257,"endTime":1663.473,"body":"Bitcoin and Lightning."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1663.529,"endTime":1669.825,"body":"Because as we talked about before, Bitcoin and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1663.529,"endTime":1669.825,"body":"Monero specifically are kind of a key part of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1669.945,"endTime":1672.929,"body":"the things that I focus on for enabling human"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1669.945,"endTime":1672.929,"body":"freedom."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1673.057,"endTime":1677.625,"body":"And I think there's a lot of aligned people in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1673.057,"endTime":1677.625,"body":"the Bitcoin and Monero space that want more"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1677.665,"endTime":1680.097,"body":"privacy preserving search and want to be able"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1677.665,"endTime":1680.097,"body":"to pay for it directly."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1680.161,"endTime":1681.849,"body":"So that's really exciting."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1681.897,"endTime":1684.129,"body":"And I know Blinded Off, I'm sure that was a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1684.137,"endTime":1687.857,"body":"lot of work on the back end because that's not"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1684.137,"endTime":1687.857,"body":"a straightforward thing, but that will be a."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1687.881,"endTime":1691.817,"body":"Really, really powerful tool"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1687.881,"endTime":1691.817,"body":"and we haven't announced that yet."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1691.881,"endTime":1694.445,"body":"So folks, you heard it here first."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1694.745,"endTime":1696.005,"body":"We got the scoop."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1698.265,"endTime":1699.737,"body":"Yeah, yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1699.921,"endTime":1701.841,"body":"That's fascinating to learn about and I will"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1701.873,"endTime":1706.561,"body":"definitely look forward to trying that out if"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1701.873,"endTime":1706.561,"body":"you do ever want to explore Monero support."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1706.633,"endTime":1709.129,"body":"And we can chat more about this offline if"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1706.633,"endTime":1709.129,"body":"you'd like."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1709.177,"endTime":1714.537,"body":"There's a really good tool for taking Bitcoin,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1709.177,"endTime":1714.537,"body":"Lightning and Monero payments directly to your"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1714.561,"endTime":1715.225,"body":"own wallet."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1715.345,"endTime":1717.073,"body":"So we should chat about that more if you're"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1717.089,"endTime":1717.689,"body":"ever interested."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1717.737,"endTime":1719.897,"body":"And I want to show you on Monero on the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1719.921,"endTime":1723.513,"body":"podcast, but I think it would be a good, a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1719.921,"endTime":1723.513,"body":"good fit and there's a lot of Monero users who"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1723.529,"endTime":1725.809,"body":"would love to be able to spend Monero on"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1723.529,"endTime":1725.809,"body":"Cocky."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1725.977,"endTime":1728.641,"body":"Sure, we would like to learn"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1725.977,"endTime":1728.641,"body":"more about that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1728.673,"endTime":1734.681,"body":"As I say, I'm not coming from that background,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1728.673,"endTime":1734.681,"body":"so trying to be practical in terms of what we"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1734.713,"endTime":1735.089,"body":"implement."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1735.177,"endTime":1738.835,"body":"And you know, billing is a complex system, so"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1738.915,"endTime":1742.091,"body":"the more providers you add, it just adds more"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1738.915,"endTime":1742.091,"body":"complexity."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1742.123,"endTime":1747.267,"body":"And we are a fairly small team and we really"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1742.123,"endTime":1747.267,"body":"want to focus on providing best search"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1747.331,"endTime":1747.699,"body":"possible."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1747.787,"endTime":1748.251,"body":"For sure."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1748.323,"endTime":1752.507,"body":"We always need to make these,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1748.323,"endTime":1752.507,"body":"you know, balance the resources and things"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1752.531,"endTime":1753.283,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1753.459,"endTime":1755.219,"body":"But I would be happy to learn more."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1755.267,"endTime":1756.571,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1755.267,"endTime":1756.571,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1756.603,"endTime":1758.451,"body":"We'll definitely have to chat more about that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1758.643,"endTime":1760.555,"body":"I did want, we've, we've talked quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1760.595,"endTime":1766.625,"body":"about the search aspect of Kagi, but like I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1760.595,"endTime":1766.625,"body":"mentioned earlier, y'all are doing a lot"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1766.745,"endTime":1770.505,"body":"outside of just definitely put it in quotes,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1766.745,"endTime":1770.505,"body":"just a search engine."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1770.545,"endTime":1775.017,"body":"Because Kagi as a search engine is far more"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1770.545,"endTime":1775.017,"body":"powerful and useful than I think really any"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1775.041,"endTime":1776.409,"body":"other search engine right now."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1776.537,"endTime":1778.009,"body":"But what are the things that you're most"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1778.057,"endTime":1780.361,"body":"excited for or the most excited about?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1780.513,"endTime":1783.945,"body":"That you've launched recently because I know"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1780.513,"endTime":1783.945,"body":"you'll have some AI products, you have"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1783.985,"endTime":1784.361,"body":"translate."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1784.393,"endTime":1785.881,"body":"There's a lot of different things going on."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1785.953,"endTime":1789.765,"body":"So what's going to get you most excited that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":1785.953,"endTime":1789.765,"body":"you'll have out right now outside of search?"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1790.185,"endTime":1797.209,"body":"Well, what gets me most excited"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1790.185,"endTime":1797.209,"body":"is this idea of having an integrated product"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1797.257,"endTime":1801.485,"body":"portfolio that can replace big tech"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1797.257,"endTime":1801.485,"body":"effectively."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1803.265,"endTime":1808.713,"body":"So we're working on a browser called Orion"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1803.265,"endTime":1808.713,"body":"browser which is a zero telemetry, user"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1808.769,"endTime":1812.525,"body":"funded, famous Kagi, So completely aligned"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1808.769,"endTime":1812.525,"body":"incentives."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1812.945,"endTime":1816.245,"body":"You pay for it with your wallet, not with your"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1812.945,"endTime":1816.245,"body":"data."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1817.585,"endTime":1820.965,"body":"And we are working on an email product."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1821.945,"endTime":1827.897,"body":"So basically the idea is we would introduce an"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1821.945,"endTime":1827.897,"body":"ecosystem of tools that will be cross"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1827.961,"endTime":1837.137,"body":"platform, cross device, where you can really,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1827.961,"endTime":1837.137,"body":"you know, trust that the product has your best"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1837.201,"endTime":1840.801,"body":"interest in mind at all times no matter what"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1837.201,"endTime":1840.801,"body":"product is."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1840.833,"endTime":1844.981,"body":"And there are a couple of products that, you"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1840.833,"endTime":1844.981,"body":"know, people use to, to consume the web."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1845.053,"endTime":1846.117,"body":"Search is one of them."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1846.181,"endTime":1848.277,"body":"Browser is another email."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1848.421,"endTime":1853.025,"body":"In my mind these three are sort of pillars of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1848.421,"endTime":1853.025,"body":"consuming the web."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1854.285,"endTime":1858.197,"body":"And interestingly, at least for browsers,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1854.285,"endTime":1858.197,"body":"browser is even more intimate."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1858.261,"endTime":1861.589,"body":"In search, we are in our browser like 10 hours"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1858.261,"endTime":1861.589,"body":"a day."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1861.637,"endTime":1867.549,"body":"It's probably the most intimate piece of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1861.637,"endTime":1867.549,"body":"software we have on our computers yet."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1867.677,"endTime":1876.181,"body":"Most of us let companies that are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1867.677,"endTime":1876.181,"body":"advertising funded one way or the other and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1876.213,"endTime":1878.933,"body":"you know, they, they let the advertisers pay"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1876.213,"endTime":1878.933,"body":"for our browsing."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1879.109,"endTime":1882.381,"body":"And that is also something completely"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1879.109,"endTime":1882.381,"body":"unacceptable for me."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1882.453,"endTime":1888.385,"body":"So this is why we started working on a browser"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1882.453,"endTime":1888.385,"body":"that will align incentives, be zero telemetry,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1888.805,"endTime":1894.237,"body":"really privacy friendly, like not none of the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1888.805,"endTime":1894.237,"body":"mainstream browsers are zero telemetry for"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1894.261,"endTime":1897.815,"body":"example, while they claim their privacy"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1894.261,"endTime":1897.815,"body":"respecting."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1898.005,"endTime":1902.055,"body":"So that always sort of was astonishing to me."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1903.155,"endTime":1908.815,"body":"And yeah, so we want to create this ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1903.155,"endTime":1908.815,"body":"of tools where people can trust."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1909.195,"endTime":1915.299,"body":"People will have a vote with their wallet,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1909.195,"endTime":1915.299,"body":"people will be able to contact support, people"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1915.347,"endTime":1921.363,"body":"will be able to request features and we will"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1915.347,"endTime":1921.363,"body":"be listening to that user community and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1921.459,"endTime":1925.075,"body":"building better products together because all"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1921.459,"endTime":1925.075,"body":"the incentives are aligned."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1925.115,"endTime":1929.649,"body":"And I think the consumption of the web lacked"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1925.115,"endTime":1929.649,"body":"something like that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1929.697,"endTime":1933.217,"body":"We used to pay for browsers up to 2005."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1933.281,"endTime":1936.161,"body":"I think maybe eight was the last paid browser"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1936.193,"endTime":1936.969,"body":"out there."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1937.137,"endTime":1941.845,"body":"You sort of bought your browser and had it"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1937.137,"endTime":1941.845,"body":"like it was yours."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1942.585,"endTime":1948.513,"body":"That sort of vanished 15 years ago and I don't"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1942.585,"endTime":1948.513,"body":"see any reason for that not to be a thing."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1948.689,"endTime":1955.969,"body":"Like, you know, you buy many things in life,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1948.689,"endTime":1955.969,"body":"you buy that coffee at Starbucks, you don't"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1956.017,"endTime":1960.321,"body":"expect a stranger to give it free to you every"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1956.017,"endTime":1960.321,"body":"single day."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1960.513,"endTime":1964.881,"body":"Yet for something much more intimate like"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1960.513,"endTime":1964.881,"body":"search and browsing, you're completely fine"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1964.913,"endTime":1967.593,"body":"with that expectation that somebody else is"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1964.913,"endTime":1967.593,"body":"paying for a coffee."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1967.649,"endTime":1968.245,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1968.865,"endTime":1975.785,"body":"So I think there will be a major shift in how"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1968.865,"endTime":1975.785,"body":"we view consumption of web in the future and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1975.865,"endTime":1980.457,"body":"we will want to trust companies that have our"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1975.865,"endTime":1980.457,"body":"best interest in mind."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1980.521,"endTime":1981.565,"body":"Simple as that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1981.745,"endTime":1984.517,"body":"So COG is building this ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1984.621,"endTime":1987.133,"body":"These are the three main products that we"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1984.621,"endTime":1987.133,"body":"build."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1987.269,"endTime":1992.549,"body":"We are building a lot of sort of secondary"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1987.269,"endTime":1992.549,"body":"products like the Translate that we launched"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1992.597,"endTime":1993.585,"body":"the other day."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1994.965,"endTime":1999.269,"body":"You know, I believe you should have access to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1994.965,"endTime":1999.269,"body":"high quality translation without jeopardizing"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":1999.357,"endTime":2000.505,"body":"any privacy."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2001.525,"endTime":2009.069,"body":"And not only that you get with Cognitranslate,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2001.525,"endTime":2009.069,"body":"but it's beating Google Translate and DeepL on"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2009.157,"endTime":2010.945,"body":"testing that our users do."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2011.635,"endTime":2018.739,"body":"So we have the universal Summarizer which"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2011.635,"endTime":2018.739,"body":"summarizes any content on the web."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2018.787,"endTime":2020.299,"body":"It's a browser extension."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2020.427,"endTime":2022.915,"body":"You can also use it in Kagi search results to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2022.955,"endTime":2025.003,"body":"summarize any search results."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2025.059,"endTime":2027.891,"body":"So we are slowly building this ecosystem of"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2025.059,"endTime":2027.891,"body":"tools."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2028.043,"endTime":2029.975,"body":"Again, we are not lacking ambition."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2030.875,"endTime":2036.015,"body":"It's just the team is small and we have to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2030.875,"endTime":2036.015,"body":"pick our battles."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2036.675,"endTime":2044.485,"body":"And most recently we have started working on"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2036.675,"endTime":2044.485,"body":"an integrated AI assistant, which basically is"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2045.825,"endTime":2052.289,"body":"an AI experience, chat like experience that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2045.825,"endTime":2052.289,"body":"has access to all the top LLMs in the world,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2052.337,"endTime":2054.225,"body":"but it's grounded in Kagi search."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2054.385,"endTime":2061.593,"body":"So you get not all, not just older models, but"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2054.385,"endTime":2061.593,"body":"when you're searching for something you get"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2061.649,"endTime":2066.049,"body":"actually accurate results that are grounded in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2061.649,"endTime":2066.049,"body":"COGI search results."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2066.217,"endTime":2069.045,"body":"So there's a lot of things going on."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2070.025,"endTime":2077.737,"body":"And yeah, sometimes people tell us like we"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2070.025,"endTime":2077.737,"body":"have these release notes every week and they"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2077.761,"endTime":2082.241,"body":"tell us like it's very hard to keep up with"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2077.761,"endTime":2082.241,"body":"the amount of stuff we are producing."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2082.273,"endTime":2084.441,"body":"But we are, we are incentivized to do that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2084.513,"endTime":2086.625,"body":"And they're all good."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2086.785,"endTime":2087.441,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2087.473,"endTime":2090.593,"body":"Again, those incentives aligning, it is crazy"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2090.649,"endTime":2093.033,"body":"with y'all being a small team, how much you're"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2090.649,"endTime":2093.033,"body":"able to put out."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2093.089,"endTime":2094.687,"body":"Like, it's uh."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2094.791,"endTime":2097.191,"body":"Normally if I step away from a project that I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2097.223,"endTime":2101.311,"body":"like for 12 months or something and don't pay"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2097.223,"endTime":2101.311,"body":"too close of attention, there's not too much"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2101.343,"endTime":2102.127,"body":"that I'm gonna miss."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2102.191,"endTime":2104.263,"body":"But like I said, I feel like I like you'll ha."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2104.279,"endTime":2105.983,"body":"You'll had Orion the last time."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2106.039,"endTime":2110.599,"body":"I was focused more on coggy and I had been"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2106.039,"endTime":2110.599,"body":"using that and trying that out a bit when I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2110.607,"endTime":2111.447,"body":"was on macOS."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2111.511,"endTime":2114.687,"body":"I'm not on Mac OS anymore, so unfortunately I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2111.511,"endTime":2114.687,"body":"can't use it today."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2114.871,"endTime":2117.391,"body":"That is a quick question that just comes to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2114.871,"endTime":2117.391,"body":"mind while I'm thinking about it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2117.423,"endTime":2122.925,"body":"Do y'all have plans, I'm assuming to expand"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2117.423,"endTime":2122.925,"body":"Orion to other platforms than macOS and iOS?"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2123.225,"endTime":2124.929,"body":"Yes, it's just a resource"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2123.225,"endTime":2124.929,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2124.977,"endTime":2131.121,"body":"We had to start somewhere and we started on"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2124.977,"endTime":2131.121,"body":"macOS or the Apple ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2131.153,"endTime":2137.765,"body":"So there's a macOS iOS version of Orion, we"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2131.153,"endTime":2137.765,"body":"have Windows Linux planned."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2138.705,"endTime":2140.705,"body":"So it's just a matter of resources."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2140.825,"endTime":2143.905,"body":"Again, we picked some of the most complex"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2143.985,"endTime":2151.229,"body":"software products in existence like Search"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2143.985,"endTime":2151.229,"body":"browser, like you can go, you know, much more"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2151.277,"endTime":2152.117,"body":"harder than that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2152.181,"endTime":2153.781,"body":"So it really takes time."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2153.933,"endTime":2157.101,"body":"We have been spending five years now on Orion"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2157.253,"endTime":2159.065,"body":"and it's not out of beta yet."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2159.565,"endTime":2161.413,"body":"We're basically building it from scratch."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2161.469,"endTime":2163.405,"body":"It's not using chromium, it's using WebKit."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2163.445,"endTime":2167.725,"body":"So there is no, you know, browser browser app"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2163.445,"endTime":2167.725,"body":"framework like Chromium."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2167.805,"endTime":2172.985,"body":"You have to create from scratch every item,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2167.805,"endTime":2172.985,"body":"every menu, every interaction."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2173.435,"endTime":2175.523,"body":"So we've been doing that for the last five"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2173.435,"endTime":2175.523,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2175.619,"endTime":2183.435,"body":"We are nearing the launch of V1 and once that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2175.619,"endTime":2183.435,"body":"happens, we are planning to start building"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2183.475,"endTime":2185.827,"body":"Orion for another platform."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2185.931,"endTime":2189.695,"body":"So I can't say when, but there's the will."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2190.995,"endTime":2192.387,"body":"But there's a will, there's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2190.995,"endTime":2192.387,"body":"a way."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2192.451,"endTime":2194.683,"body":"Yeah, that's what I was always taught growing"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2192.451,"endTime":2194.683,"body":"up."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2194.739,"endTime":2197.195,"body":"So yeah, I'm excited to see that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2197.275,"endTime":2200.233,"body":"I think that's another reason why, that's"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2200.289,"endTime":2204.617,"body":"another thing that I really appreciate about"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2200.289,"endTime":2204.617,"body":"this model that you've taken on, that I feel"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2204.641,"endTime":2208.473,"body":"like some others in this space have taken on,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2204.641,"endTime":2208.473,"body":"where it's actually a paid model, is that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2208.489,"endTime":2211.641,"body":"there's also, there's a sense of user"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2208.489,"endTime":2211.641,"body":"investment as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2211.793,"endTime":2216.993,"body":"Like rather than me being a free user of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2211.793,"endTime":2216.993,"body":"Google and having no attachment to Google and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2217.009,"endTime":2221.937,"body":"not feeling at all like the things that I'm"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2217.009,"endTime":2221.937,"body":"doing with Google are creating things that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2221.961,"endTime":2223.753,"body":"will benefit me in the future."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2223.929,"endTime":2229.555,"body":"There's this really cool aligned incentives"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2223.929,"endTime":2229.555,"body":"that happen when I'm paying for Kagi Search"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2229.715,"endTime":2233.891,"body":"and I see that Kagi has now been able to build"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2229.715,"endTime":2233.891,"body":"all of these new tools that you're building a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2233.923,"endTime":2234.651,"body":"browser."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2234.803,"endTime":2240.891,"body":"It's also a very different feeling for me as"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2234.803,"endTime":2240.891,"body":"the user because you get that sense of like I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2240.923,"endTime":2244.747,"body":"helped a little bit to get it there and every"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2240.923,"endTime":2244.747,"body":"bit that you do, helping spread the word on"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2244.771,"endTime":2248.091,"body":"these kind of programs, like obviously I'm not"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2244.771,"endTime":2248.091,"body":"working at Kaki, y'all are the ones doing the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2248.123,"endTime":2248.387,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2248.451,"endTime":2253.849,"body":"But when you're funding something with your"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2248.451,"endTime":2253.849,"body":"money rather than funding some far off"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2253.987,"endTime":2260.133,"body":"corporation with your ads, with your ad clicks"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2253.987,"endTime":2260.133,"body":"or your data, there's a much more interesting"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2260.189,"endTime":2263.189,"body":"kind of set of, I don't know, it just feels"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2260.189,"endTime":2263.189,"body":"very different."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2263.237,"endTime":2269.133,"body":"It's a very encouraging, very more human"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2263.237,"endTime":2269.133,"body":"centric approach to the web where it feels a"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2269.149,"endTime":2272.373,"body":"little bit more like you're a part of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2269.149,"endTime":2272.373,"body":"something and that you're helping something"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2272.429,"endTime":2272.693,"body":"else."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2272.749,"endTime":2277.253,"body":"To become better rather than just a part of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2272.749,"endTime":2277.253,"body":"the system."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2277.429,"endTime":2279.645,"body":"So I don't know if that's a little bit too"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2277.429,"endTime":2279.645,"body":"philosophical."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2279.685,"endTime":2282.589,"body":"No, it resonates with me a lot."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2282.637,"endTime":2284.865,"body":"And our mission is to humanize the web."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2285.245,"endTime":2287.853,"body":"And thank you for saying that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2287.949,"endTime":2292.389,"body":"And let me just say that user input and"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2292.437,"endTime":2296.945,"body":"contribution has been a major part, not a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2292.437,"endTime":2296.945,"body":"small part."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2297.325,"endTime":2304.789,"body":"And some of that through the feedback and bug"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2297.325,"endTime":2304.789,"body":"reports and things like that, I think users"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2304.837,"endTime":2314.041,"body":"build like 50% of our products, 50% at least,"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2304.837,"endTime":2314.041,"body":"of the features and things you see in the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2314.073,"endTime":2314.553,"body":"products."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2314.689,"endTime":2319.617,"body":"And on the other hand, spreading the word"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2314.689,"endTime":2319.617,"body":"like, we are not covered in major tech media."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2319.721,"endTime":2325.873,"body":"And you will learn about Kagi through podcasts"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2319.721,"endTime":2325.873,"body":"like yours and people spreading the world on"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2325.929,"endTime":2328.765,"body":"social media, on Reddit and hacker news."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2329.625,"endTime":2334.205,"body":"You know, the major tech media is not"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2329.625,"endTime":2334.205,"body":"interested."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2334.945,"endTime":2339.893,"body":"So we are very, very grateful for having such"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2334.945,"endTime":2339.893,"body":"users that help us build this together."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2339.949,"endTime":2345.341,"body":"And really, you know, there would be no"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2339.949,"endTime":2345.341,"body":"cognitive, literally with all these users in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2345.373,"endTime":2346.397,"body":"every sense of the word."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2346.461,"endTime":2351.025,"body":"So thank you for doing that and thanks to all"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2346.461,"endTime":2351.025,"body":"our user community."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2351.405,"endTime":2353.625,"body":"You mean really a lot to us."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2353.925,"endTime":2354.797,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2354.901,"endTime":2356.677,"body":"I'm really excited to see what y'all will do"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2356.701,"endTime":2357.213,"body":"in the future."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2357.269,"endTime":2360.165,"body":"I think that's probably a good place to wrap."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2360.205,"endTime":2365.633,"body":"Is just ending with what's most exciting to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2360.205,"endTime":2365.633,"body":"you that Coggy's working on right now in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2365.649,"endTime":2365.801,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2365.833,"endTime":2368.737,"body":"I know we just talked about the current"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2365.833,"endTime":2368.737,"body":"product, so maybe that's email like you"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2368.761,"endTime":2369.017,"body":"mentioned."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2369.041,"endTime":2370.217,"body":"It's something that you're working on in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2370.241,"endTime":2372.409,"body":"background, but maybe just kind of what's."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2372.457,"endTime":2375.577,"body":"What's most exciting to you?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2372.457,"endTime":2375.577,"body":"What are you most looking forward to in the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2375.601,"endTime":2377.337,"body":"future of Cogi?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2375.601,"endTime":2377.337,"body":"And then any."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2377.361,"endTime":2380.805,"body":"Just any closing thoughts or last things you"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2377.361,"endTime":2380.805,"body":"want to say before we wrap up here."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2381.145,"endTime":2384.825,"body":"Sure. So I already mentioned"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2381.145,"endTime":2384.825,"body":"the integrated product portfolio."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2384.905,"endTime":2387.673,"body":"That's something I want us to focus on more."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2387.809,"endTime":2391.191,"body":"So you can access Kagi products on different"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2391.263,"endTime":2396.351,"body":"platforms and devices and, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2391.263,"endTime":2396.351,"body":"really have this alternative way to consume"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2396.383,"endTime":2399.595,"body":"the web that has your best interest in mind."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2400.655,"endTime":2406.295,"body":"Second, I'd really love to see Kagi"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2400.655,"endTime":2406.295,"body":"proliferate more with educational"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2406.335,"endTime":2407.159,"body":"institutions."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2407.327,"endTime":2410.311,"body":"I think schools could benefit a lot from Kagi."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2410.343,"endTime":2417.177,"body":"I would love to see my children being able to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2410.343,"endTime":2417.177,"body":"use Kagi, their school versus Google and not"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2417.201,"endTime":2420.641,"body":"be forced to change their search engine"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2417.201,"endTime":2420.641,"body":"because they have how you said, and then the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2420.673,"endTime":2423.481,"body":"teacher changes it back to Google and they"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2420.673,"endTime":2423.481,"body":"change it back."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2423.673,"endTime":2427.353,"body":"Like, that's so wrong on so many levels."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2427.449,"endTime":2428.285,"body":"No kidding."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2428.745,"endTime":2434.545,"body":"And so that's one of the things"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2428.745,"endTime":2434.545,"body":"that I hope, just like the society will"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2434.585,"endTime":2443.973,"body":"embrace this idea of, you know, information"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2434.585,"endTime":2443.973,"body":"having value and we don't put a lot of value"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2444.109,"endTime":2448.745,"body":"on getting information today because so easily"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2444.109,"endTime":2448.745,"body":"available."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2449.685,"endTime":2455.061,"body":"But we do forget that it is because it's not"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2449.685,"endTime":2455.061,"body":"in our best interest."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2455.213,"endTime":2459.745,"body":"And finally, the futuristic vision of Kagi."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2460.365,"endTime":2468.435,"body":"For me, I was always fascinated with these"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2460.365,"endTime":2468.435,"body":"onboard computers in science fiction movies"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2468.605,"endTime":2472.319,"body":"like, you know, Alien or Star Trek where you"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2468.605,"endTime":2472.319,"body":"can just talk to the computer."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2472.447,"endTime":2479.271,"body":"And I always thought like we would get to the"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2472.447,"endTime":2479.271,"body":"point where, you know, this will be a reality."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2479.383,"endTime":2486.235,"body":"And it seems like we got a bit closer with"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2479.383,"endTime":2486.235,"body":"LLMs, but it also feels like it's not bad."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2486.815,"endTime":2489.935,"body":"And the technology seems to be limited."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2490.095,"endTime":2492.695,"body":"And I'm not 100% sure it will get us to that"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2492.735,"endTime":2497.289,"body":"vision because nobody check the output of a"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2492.735,"endTime":2497.289,"body":"Star Trek board computer."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2497.337,"endTime":2498.485,"body":"It was always right."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2499.065,"endTime":2501.097,"body":"With LLMs, it's like hit and miss."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2501.161,"endTime":2501.841,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2502.033,"endTime":2506.913,"body":"And so I'm not sure that technology will get"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2502.033,"endTime":2506.913,"body":"us there, but I'm really excited about"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2507.009,"endTime":2513.673,"body":"possibility of having that sort of technology"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2507.009,"endTime":2513.673,"body":"more readily available."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2513.769,"endTime":2521.645,"body":"And you can sort of talk to a computer and it"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2513.769,"endTime":2521.645,"body":"will sort of be efficient and accurate."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2523.325,"endTime":2530.157,"body":"There's a very interesting vision by Apple"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2523.325,"endTime":2530.157,"body":"from 1987 called the Knowledge Navigator."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2530.261,"endTime":2536.125,"body":"And you can find this on YouTube and you can"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2530.261,"endTime":2536.125,"body":"see what Apple envisioned in 87."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2536.285,"endTime":2541.453,"body":"So that's something I would like to try to"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2536.285,"endTime":2541.453,"body":"build one day."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2541.589,"endTime":2543.245,"body":"But I think we are very far from that."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2543.285,"endTime":2546.037,"body":"And I say I don't think LLMs will get us"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2546.061,"endTime":2546.245,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2546.285,"endTime":2548.755,"body":"Unfortunately, they will need to be another"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2548.835,"endTime":2549.547,"body":"breakthrough."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2549.651,"endTime":2552.539,"body":"But important part of that breakthrough will"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2552.587,"endTime":2554.899,"body":"be that incentives will be aligned."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2555.067,"endTime":2562.411,"body":"Again, that Star Trek onboard computer, you"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2555.067,"endTime":2562.411,"body":"cannot imagine it showing it an ad before or"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2562.443,"endTime":2564.083,"body":"after it said something to you."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2564.179,"endTime":2564.555,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2564.635,"endTime":2566.415,"body":"It needs to be in your service."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2566.795,"endTime":2574.923,"body":"So again, this idea of information being in"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2566.795,"endTime":2574.923,"body":"your best interest I think will be a big idea"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2575.059,"endTime":2578.107,"body":"or a bigger idea in the next five to 10 years."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2578.291,"endTime":2581.363,"body":"Yeah. And I think too"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2578.291,"endTime":2581.363,"body":"something that you mentioned earlier about"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2581.459,"endTime":2587.307,"body":"kind of how the brokenness of the information"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2581.459,"endTime":2587.307,"body":"that's available via search a lot of times is"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2587.371,"endTime":2589.011,"body":"fed by the ad system."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2589.163,"endTime":2593.875,"body":"I think that's probably a lot of the core of"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2589.163,"endTime":2593.875,"body":"the issues with LLMs right now too is an LLM"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2593.915,"endTime":2595.787,"body":"is only as good as the data that you feed it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2595.851,"endTime":2602.139,"body":"And when the data that you feed it is"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2595.851,"endTime":2602.139,"body":"overwhelmingly data that's driven by ads or"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2602.187,"endTime":2608.427,"body":"that's driven by a kind of clickbait economy,"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2602.187,"endTime":2608.427,"body":"there's a lot that would get better if the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2608.451,"endTime":2612.355,"body":"actual information that people incentivize to"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2608.451,"endTime":2612.355,"body":"put out into the web improves."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2612.395,"endTime":2617.971,"body":"So I think there's an interesting thought that"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2612.395,"endTime":2617.971,"body":"perhaps as we slowly fix the web and slowly"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2618.043,"endTime":2621.523,"body":"build in better incentives and slowly break"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2618.043,"endTime":2621.523,"body":"away from the ad economy."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2621.619,"endTime":2627.013,"body":"Things like LLMs may naturally get better as"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2621.619,"endTime":2627.013,"body":"the quality of the info that's out there on"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2627.029,"endTime":2628.757,"body":"the Internet actually improves as well."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2628.821,"endTime":2633.461,"body":"So certainly a tangent, but an interesting one"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2628.821,"endTime":2633.461,"body":"where I'm curious how that that interplay"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2633.493,"endTime":2634.625,"body":"works out in the future."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2635.365,"endTime":2637.421,"body":"Well, thank you so much for coming on, Vlad."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2637.533,"endTime":2639.677,"body":"I know we kept this one relatively brief, but"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2639.701,"endTime":2643.837,"body":"I wanted to make sure to let people know what"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2639.701,"endTime":2643.837,"body":"you're doing at Kagi."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2643.901,"endTime":2647.981,"body":"Like I said, I've been a user for a couple"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2643.901,"endTime":2647.981,"body":"years now and really, really enjoying it and"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2648.013,"endTime":2652.237,"body":"excited to jump back in, especially with the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2648.013,"endTime":2652.237,"body":"blinded auth that you're working on."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2652.261,"endTime":2655.637,"body":"I think that's going to be a huge breakthrough"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2652.261,"endTime":2655.637,"body":"and fix the only real downside that I saw with"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2655.661,"endTime":2656.573,"body":"COGI at this point."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2656.629,"endTime":2658.365,"body":"So really looking forward to it."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2658.405,"endTime":2660.237,"body":"Thank you so much for your hard work."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2660.421,"endTime":2663.629,"body":"And then last question, just where can people"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2660.421,"endTime":2663.629,"body":"find more about you?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2663.677,"endTime":2666.305,"body":"Find more about Kagi?"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2663.677,"endTime":2666.305,"body":"Where do you want to send people?"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2666.765,"endTime":2669.665,"body":"Sure. So kagi.com"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2670.405,"endTime":2671.573,"body":"please visit."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2671.669,"endTime":2672.389,"body":"Try it."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2672.517,"endTime":2674.309,"body":"I think you will be pleasantly surprised."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2674.357,"endTime":2677.305,"body":"What happens when search is optimized for you?"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2678.325,"endTime":2680.581,"body":"We are active on all social media."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2680.773,"endTime":2683.425,"body":"We have very active community on Discord."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2685.185,"endTime":2688.365,"body":"Five or so thousand people, very dynamic."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2688.865,"endTime":2691.085,"body":"We love hearing from our community."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2691.425,"endTime":2697.521,"body":"So make sure you say hello, tell us what you"},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2691.425,"endTime":2697.521,"body":"think of Kagi, how we can improve."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2697.633,"endTime":2698.965,"body":"We appreciate all that."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2699.265,"endTime":2699.777,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2699.841,"endTime":2700.553,"body":"Thank you so much Vlad."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2700.609,"endTime":2701.825,"body":"Have a great rest of your day."},{"speaker":"Vlad Prelovac","startTime":2701.985,"endTime":2703.245,"body":"Thanks so much Sam."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2711.115,"endTime":2714.275,"body":"Thanks for listening and I"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2711.115,"endTime":2714.275,"body":"hope you enjoyed this episode of Opt Out."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2714.395,"endTime":2717.067,"body":"If you did, please take a moment and subscribe"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2714.395,"endTime":2717.067,"body":"to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2717.171,"endTime":2721.335,"body":"Or if you're already subscribed, share it with"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2717.171,"endTime":2721.335,"body":"one friend or family member this week."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2721.635,"endTime":2725.947,"body":"As always, you can check out the link to the"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2721.635,"endTime":2725.947,"body":"guest content and contact info as well as"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2725.971,"endTime":2728.563,"body":"links to all of the tools we discussed in"},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2725.971,"endTime":2728.563,"body":"today's episode."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2728.699,"endTime":2730.035,"body":"Now get out there and opt out."},{"speaker":"Seth For Privacy","startTime":2730.075,"endTime":2730.315,"body":"This week."}]}