{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3.76,"endTime":5.144,"body":"Welcome on to the show, Marks."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":5.192,"endTime":7.512,"body":"It's, it's really awesome to get to, to meet"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":7.536,"endTime":11.672,"body":"you, to, to chat and to learn a lot more about"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":7.536,"endTime":11.672,"body":"what I think are two really fascinating"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":11.736,"endTime":15.592,"body":"projects that I don't normally talk about here"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":11.736,"endTime":15.592,"body":"on Opt Out."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":15.616,"endTime":19.688,"body":"So I think it's especially interesting because"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":15.616,"endTime":19.688,"body":"it's not just kind of a. Another privacy tool,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":19.744,"endTime":23.208,"body":"but it's something that's, that's quite"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":19.744,"endTime":23.208,"body":"different in, in concept and execution."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":23.304,"endTime":24.76,"body":"So looking forward to it."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":24.8,"endTime":27.89,"body":"I thought first, I mean obviously I haven't"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":24.8,"endTime":27.89,"body":"had you on the show, but we also haven't"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":28.0,"endTime":29.038,"body":"chatted before now."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":29.094,"endTime":30.43,"body":"So I'd love to just hear a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":30.47,"endTime":35.246,"body":"about your background and how you came to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":30.47,"endTime":35.246,"body":"at Open Secret and ultimately Maple AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":35.358,"endTime":36.11,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":36.23,"endTime":39.662,"body":"Thanks Seth. Yeah, I, I think I first came to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":39.686,"endTime":45.342,"body":"know you on Nostr probably when I joined a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":39.686,"endTime":45.342,"body":"couple years ago and then discovered your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":45.366,"endTime":49.102,"body":"podcast some at some point during that time"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":45.366,"endTime":49.102,"body":"listened to you."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":49.126,"endTime":53.61,"body":"I really loved your, your last one with James"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":49.126,"endTime":53.61,"body":"some Lop, I think you had him on."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":54.56,"endTime":56.5,"body":"So yeah, it's been good."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":56.96,"endTime":58.568,"body":"A bit about my background."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":58.664,"endTime":60.648,"body":"So I come from the startup world."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":60.704,"endTime":64.38,"body":"I was an early employee at a few different"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":60.704,"endTime":64.38,"body":"startups working on tech."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":65.2,"endTime":70.216,"body":"The very first one I did was actually an"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":65.2,"endTime":70.216,"body":"online backup company where you would install"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":70.248,"endTime":74.152,"body":"our software on your computer and upload all"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":70.248,"endTime":74.152,"body":"of your files to our servers."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":74.296,"endTime":80.962,"body":"And that was like my first real run in with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":74.296,"endTime":80.962,"body":"privacy technology because we had, as you can"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":80.986,"endTime":85.01,"body":"imagine, there's a lot of sensitive"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":80.986,"endTime":85.01,"body":"information that people upload and so we would"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":85.05,"endTime":91.25,"body":"have this giant database of petabytes of data"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":85.05,"endTime":91.25,"body":"and most of our users were just fine with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":91.29,"endTime":91.49,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":91.53,"endTime":95.89,"body":"But we had this like hardcore base of users,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":91.53,"endTime":95.89,"body":"about 10% of them that wanted to have private"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":95.93,"endTime":96.402,"body":"encryption."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":96.466,"endTime":98.338,"body":"So we gave them a private encryption option"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":98.434,"endTime":100.162,"body":"where they could write down their own key."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":100.346,"endTime":103.586,"body":"So that kind of launched me off into this"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":100.346,"endTime":103.586,"body":"thing where it's like it was this ever running"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":103.618,"endTime":107.19,"body":"threat in my background, in the back of my"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":103.618,"endTime":107.19,"body":"mind of privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":107.75,"endTime":113.23,"body":"But I went to a few different, few different"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":107.75,"endTime":113.23,"body":"startups, had some great learning experiences"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":113.31,"endTime":119.278,"body":"and then over the last six years I actually"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":113.31,"endTime":119.278,"body":"found myself at the anti startup which was"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":119.334,"endTime":119.742,"body":"Apple."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":119.806,"endTime":123.37,"body":"I was at the largest company, big tech company"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":119.806,"endTime":123.37,"body":"in the world,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":123.75,"endTime":129.582,"body":"but I was working on software engineering"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":123.75,"endTime":129.582,"body":"specifically with a focus on privacy and a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":129.606,"endTime":132.532,"body":"focus on machine learning, AI, computer"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":129.606,"endTime":132.532,"body":"vision, type stuff."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":132.646,"endTime":136.872,"body":"Um, so it was, it was really interesting and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":132.646,"endTime":136.872,"body":"I, I learned a lot there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":137.056,"endTime":142.472,"body":"Had a. Had some tough times working there as"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":137.056,"endTime":142.472,"body":"well just because I have kind of this startup"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":142.536,"endTime":147.032,"body":"mentality within my mind and so I was always"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":142.536,"endTime":147.032,"body":"trying to find like where are the spots in the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":147.056,"endTime":151.62,"body":"company that I can flex that muscle and, you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":147.056,"endTime":151.62,"body":"know, scratch that itch that I have."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":151.92,"endTime":156.584,"body":"So about a year ago, I was kind of looking"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":151.92,"endTime":156.584,"body":"around like, what can I do?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":156.752,"endTime":159.464,"body":"And I was active on Nostr."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":159.512,"endTime":162.14,"body":"I was active in the Bitcoin and Lightning"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":162.66,"endTime":167.868,"body":"communities as well, and decided to reach out"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":162.66,"endTime":167.868,"body":"to the guys that were working on the Mutiny"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":167.884,"endTime":168.668,"body":"Wallet and said, hey,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":168.684,"endTime":172.396,"body":"I've got this great experience of scaling"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":168.684,"endTime":172.396,"body":"mobile apps."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":172.428,"endTime":176.188,"body":"I've worked in the mobile app space, you know,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":172.428,"endTime":176.188,"body":"since the beginning of the App Store."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":176.364,"endTime":180.108,"body":"Let me team up with you guys and let's see if"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":176.364,"endTime":180.108,"body":"we can make this more mainstream and bring"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":180.164,"endTime":184.956,"body":"like a privacy solution of, of Lightning to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":180.164,"endTime":184.956,"body":"more users."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":185.148,"endTime":186.988,"body":"And that's, that's kind of how I was born."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":187.084,"endTime":189.292,"body":"I can go into the details more if you want of,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":189.316,"endTime":195.036,"body":"like, how Mutiny Wallet ended up shutting down"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":189.316,"endTime":195.036,"body":"and how we started up Open Secret, but that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":195.068,"endTime":197.132,"body":"kind of my, My, my personal story there."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":197.316,"endTime":201.292,"body":"Yeah, I think it would be helpful"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":197.316,"endTime":201.292,"body":"for people because I know probably quite a few"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":201.316,"endTime":205.868,"body":"listeners were probably Mutiny Wallet users or"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":201.316,"endTime":205.868,"body":"at least aware of Mutiny Wallet's approach."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":205.924,"endTime":209.116,"body":"And I think the guys in Mutiny did some very"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":205.924,"endTime":209.116,"body":"interesting things."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":209.188,"endTime":213.564,"body":"Some things that I loved, some things that I"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":209.188,"endTime":213.564,"body":"didn't love on the ecash side specifically,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":213.612,"endTime":215.372,"body":"but I've always been an E Cash hater."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":215.516,"endTime":217.068,"body":"So I know that there's a. There's a little"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":217.124,"endTime":219.548,"body":"different perspective there than a lot of"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":217.124,"endTime":219.548,"body":"people in the Bitcoin space."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":219.604,"endTime":224.396,"body":"But I think it would be interesting maybe just"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":219.604,"endTime":224.396,"body":"to hear before we dive too deeply into what's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":224.428,"endTime":231.116,"body":"Open Secret, why Maple AI, that sort of thing,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":224.428,"endTime":231.116,"body":"why the pivot from mutiny wallet to OpenSecret"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":231.148,"endTime":232.636,"body":"and like, how did that pathway develop?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":232.708,"endTime":236.252,"body":"Because I know it was a relatively clear pivot"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":232.708,"endTime":236.252,"body":"because there was a lot of alignment between"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":236.276,"endTime":236.7,"body":"those two."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":236.74,"endTime":239.42,"body":"But maybe just a little bit about why the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":239.46,"endTime":243.436,"body":"shift from Mutiny to Open Secret and why that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":239.46,"endTime":243.436,"body":"made sense."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":243.548,"endTime":244.572,"body":"Sure, yeah."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":244.716,"endTime":247.42,"body":"With anything, it is multiple variables all"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":247.46,"endTime":248.824,"body":"working at the same time."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":249.012,"endTime":251.92,"body":"And the situation constantly changes as you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":251.96,"endTime":253.504,"body":"all make one decision together."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":253.592,"endTime":255.84,"body":"Then that opens up new possibilities and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":255.88,"endTime":260.24,"body":"people have to, like, rethink the entire"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":255.88,"endTime":260.24,"body":"decision tree again and come up with the next"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":260.28,"endTime":260.72,"body":"decision."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":260.84,"endTime":267.568,"body":"So really what, what happened is, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":260.84,"endTime":267.568,"body":"started there last year and this was right"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":267.624,"endTime":270.544,"body":"when the samurai guys got arrested."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":270.592,"endTime":272.3,"body":"Samurai Wall got shut down."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":272.84,"endTime":273.58,"body":"We."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":274.13,"endTime":275.882,"body":"We decided, let's just keep moving forward."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":275.986,"endTime":277.914,"body":"Like, that doesn't deter us."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":278.002,"endTime":278.67,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":279.17,"endTime":280.218,"body":"it sucks."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":280.394,"endTime":282.634,"body":"And I really think that we need to see some"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":282.802,"endTime":287.994,"body":"justice for those guys and that they are being"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":282.802,"endTime":287.994,"body":"wrongfully detained in my mind."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":288.082,"endTime":294.714,"body":"But we kept taking a look at what we were"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":288.082,"endTime":294.714,"body":"building and what do we need to do to scale"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":294.762,"endTime":295.37,"body":"this thing?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":295.49,"endTime":298.17,"body":"And there were some privacy trade offs that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":295.49,"endTime":298.17,"body":"were made."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":298.29,"endTime":303.674,"body":"A lot of the privacy tech that exists online"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":298.29,"endTime":303.674,"body":"is still within the realm of trust that we"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":303.682,"endTime":305.91,"body":"aren't logging mentality."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":306.07,"endTime":312.438,"body":"And so with Mutiny Wallet we gave people their"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":306.07,"endTime":312.438,"body":"private key up front, they wrote it down and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":312.494,"endTime":319.382,"body":"then they, they could feel somewhat safe in"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":312.494,"endTime":319.382,"body":"knowing that their experiences encrypted end"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":319.406,"endTime":319.942,"body":"to end."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":320.046,"endTime":322.646,"body":"However, they still didn't know what we were"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":320.046,"endTime":322.646,"body":"running on our backend."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":322.678,"endTime":324.022,"body":"They couldn't verify that code."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":324.166,"endTime":326.502,"body":"And so the, the option was for those users who"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":326.526,"endTime":331.302,"body":"were truly wanted to have the highest level of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":326.526,"endTime":331.302,"body":"privacy, they could run Mutiny Wallet on their"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":331.326,"endTime":331.51,"body":"own."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":331.55,"endTime":334.946,"body":"A lot of people would do that on their"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":331.55,"endTime":334.946,"body":"something like a start9 server because it was"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":335.018,"endTime":339.074,"body":"point and click and it was, it was easy and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":335.018,"endTime":339.074,"body":"that was great."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":339.162,"endTime":344.082,"body":"But a majority of our users just went to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":339.162,"endTime":344.082,"body":"app.mutinywallet.com and ran our own, you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":344.106,"endTime":345.794,"body":"know, hit our backend instance."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":345.922,"endTime":347.426,"body":"And so they were just trusting us."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":347.498,"endTime":349.79,"body":"And even though we couldn't see their data,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":350.17,"endTime":354.002,"body":"we knew that we wanted to offer stronger"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":350.17,"endTime":354.002,"body":"privacy there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":354.186,"endTime":359.394,"body":"So we started looking at rebuilding the entire"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":354.186,"endTime":359.394,"body":"experience and we started researching"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":359.442,"endTime":363.242,"body":"confidential computer and what could we do"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":359.442,"endTime":363.242,"body":"with secure enclaves in the cloud."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":363.386,"endTime":367.162,"body":"And that really led us down this whole path of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":363.386,"endTime":367.162,"body":"if we're going to rebuild this, do we want to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":367.186,"endTime":368.55,"body":"be in the wallet game?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":368.93,"endTime":374.586,"body":"There wasn't anything out there for us to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":368.93,"endTime":374.586,"body":"build a wallet that was based on secure"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":374.618,"endTime":375.482,"body":"enclaves."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":375.626,"endTime":377.962,"body":"And so we would have to build that ourselves."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":378.106,"endTime":385.514,"body":"And that ends up putting us in this dilemma of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":378.106,"endTime":385.514,"body":"having to build the platform and build this"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":385.682,"endTime":388.314,"body":"really good user experience on the front end."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":388.482,"endTime":393.762,"body":"And as you know, building a front end wallet"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":388.482,"endTime":393.762,"body":"is like a very difficult process."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":393.866,"endTime":394.594,"body":"It's crazy."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":394.722,"endTime":397.698,"body":"It's crazy, right?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":394.722,"endTime":397.698,"body":"And oh yeah, it's super hard."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":397.754,"endTime":402.37,"body":"And so trying to focus on both of those at the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":397.754,"endTime":402.37,"body":"same time with a very small team and very"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":402.41,"endTime":407.27,"body":"small amount of funding is a recipe likely for"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":402.41,"endTime":407.27,"body":"a disaster."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":407.61,"endTime":415.122,"body":"So we decided let's not pursue the wallet"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":407.61,"endTime":415.122,"body":"anymore because we think there's actually a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":415.146,"endTime":420.658,"body":"real big need for a developer platform that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":415.146,"endTime":420.658,"body":"makes it easy for other app developers to have"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":420.714,"endTime":424.28,"body":"strong privacy and to build end to end"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":420.714,"endTime":424.28,"body":"encryption into their experience."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":424.66,"endTime":429.804,"body":"And so we can dive into Open Secret and what"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":424.66,"endTime":429.804,"body":"that is, but that's really where it came from,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":429.892,"endTime":433.708,"body":"is where one Mutiny Wallet might be retired."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":433.884,"endTime":435.9,"body":"We hope that we can actually build a platform"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":435.98,"endTime":441.788,"body":"where thousands of other wallets and not just"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":435.98,"endTime":441.788,"body":"wallet apps, not just cryptocurrency, but tens"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":441.804,"endTime":443.18,"body":"of thousands of other apps."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":443.26,"endTime":448.074,"body":"The things that you run on your phone, in your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":443.26,"endTime":448.074,"body":"Pocket that those could all benefit from"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":448.162,"endTime":448.698,"body":"privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":448.794,"endTime":450.666,"body":"And so we want to build a platform that allows"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":450.698,"endTime":452.59,"body":"them to incorporate that easily."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":452.93,"endTime":455.402,"body":"Yeah. Tell me, tell me a little bit"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":452.93,"endTime":455.402,"body":"more about Open Secret."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":455.506,"endTime":460.57,"body":"Because this, this idea of secure enclaves is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":455.506,"endTime":460.57,"body":"one that's been, I feel like floating around"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":460.61,"endTime":465.482,"body":"the space for a long time and even in the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":460.61,"endTime":465.482,"body":"cryptocurrency space I know that like signals"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":465.546,"endTime":467.594,"body":"approach to their cryptocurrency that they"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":465.546,"endTime":467.594,"body":"launched,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":467.642,"endTime":472.186,"body":"which I guess is dead, haven't heard anything"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":467.642,"endTime":472.186,"body":"about in a very long time, was using secure"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":472.218,"endTime":472.874,"body":"enclaves."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":472.922,"endTime":474.682,"body":"There's been a lot of different approaches to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":474.706,"endTime":481.222,"body":"use those, but a lot of times it feels more"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":474.706,"endTime":481.222,"body":"like a buzzword than a central focus."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":481.406,"endTime":484.966,"body":"And I'm really curious to hear like what,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":481.406,"endTime":484.966,"body":"what's the vision behind Open Secret?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":485.038,"endTime":488.918,"body":"What, what do you enable by having the secure"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":485.038,"endTime":488.918,"body":"enclave approach?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":488.974,"endTime":493.142,"body":"And how does this actually work to provide the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":488.974,"endTime":493.142,"body":"end user better privacy or more provable"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":493.206,"endTime":494.87,"body":"privacy maybe is the right word."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":495.03,"endTime":501.11,"body":"Yeah, so I'll, I'll put a few words"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":495.03,"endTime":501.11,"body":"out there like glossary terminology words just"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":501.15,"endTime":505.19,"body":"so people following this conversation might be"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":501.15,"endTime":505.19,"body":"able to like grab onto things from their past"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":505.23,"endTime":506.054,"body":"that they've heard."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":506.182,"endTime":512.36,"body":"So confidential computing, secure enclaves,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":506.182,"endTime":512.36,"body":"you know, TEE, trusted execution environments,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":512.94,"endTime":517.812,"body":"hardware security modules, HSMs, these are all"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":512.94,"endTime":517.812,"body":"kind of buzzwords that float around the same"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":517.836,"endTime":527.22,"body":"concept of you can have a server running in"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":517.836,"endTime":527.22,"body":"the cloud and it is this secure box where the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":527.26,"endTime":532.548,"body":"code that is put inside of it, people are able"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":527.26,"endTime":532.548,"body":"to audit it and verify what code is running"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":532.564,"endTime":533.124,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":533.292,"endTime":539.26,"body":"Very similar to the concept that you might"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":533.292,"endTime":539.26,"body":"download some project from GitHub onto your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":539.3,"endTime":543.532,"body":"laptop and you can see the open source code"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":539.3,"endTime":543.532,"body":"and then you can build and run it yourself."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":543.676,"endTime":546.652,"body":"And so you know what code is running, you know"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":543.676,"endTime":546.652,"body":"there's no backdoors in there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":546.756,"endTime":550.7,"body":"However, that experience has never been"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":546.756,"endTime":550.7,"body":"possible on the back end in the cloud."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":550.86,"endTime":555.004,"body":"And so this is the idea behind confidential"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":550.86,"endTime":555.004,"body":"computing is let's provide a way for people to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":555.012,"endTime":563.052,"body":"see that it mostly has become a viable option"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":555.012,"endTime":563.052,"body":"in like the last five years where it is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":563.076,"endTime":567.32,"body":"available now on AWS and some other platforms"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":563.076,"endTime":567.32,"body":"like on Azure."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":567.5,"endTime":573.008,"body":"But there were some early on hacks and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":567.5,"endTime":573.008,"body":"vulnerabilities with like the Intel SGX"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":573.104,"endTime":576.144,"body":"implementation of confidential computing."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":576.272,"endTime":578.672,"body":"And so that set people back a little bit and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":578.776,"endTime":579.632,"body":"rightfully so."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":579.656,"endTime":581.6,"body":"There was a lot of distrust, but since then"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":581.64,"endTime":587.2,"body":"there have been a few other iterations and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":581.64,"endTime":587.2,"body":"we're using the AWS Nitro implementation right"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":587.24,"endTime":587.632,"body":"now,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":587.736,"endTime":593.38,"body":"which they made some different trade offs and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":587.736,"endTime":593.38,"body":"I think that it's a stronger platform."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":594.98,"endTime":600.68,"body":"I am not as technical on this topic as my co"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":594.98,"endTime":600.68,"body":"founder is,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":601.38,"endTime":606.108,"body":"but I've researched enough now that I feel"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":601.38,"endTime":606.108,"body":"more confident in this approach that we're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":606.124,"endTime":607.4,"body":"going with on this one."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":608.5,"endTime":614.684,"body":"The biggest vulnerability here is that you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":608.5,"endTime":614.684,"body":"essentially trusting the hardware manufacturer"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":614.732,"endTime":621.382,"body":"and you are entrusting Amazon AWS that they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":614.732,"endTime":621.382,"body":"are not going to insert a backdoor at the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":621.406,"endTime":626.53,"body":"hardware level for them to basically get"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":621.406,"endTime":626.53,"body":"access to all of the keys of everything."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":627.07,"endTime":633.462,"body":"So there is some level of trust, but they are"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":627.07,"endTime":633.462,"body":"financially incentivized to maintain that for"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":633.486,"endTime":636.53,"body":"their reputation and for the massive scale"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":633.486,"endTime":636.53,"body":"that they run at."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":638.11,"endTime":642.822,"body":"So ultimately, when you are putting data on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":638.11,"endTime":642.822,"body":"someone else's computer, there is going to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":642.846,"endTime":644.01,"body":"some level of trust."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":644.55,"endTime":646.286,"body":"Think there's a way around that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":646.438,"endTime":649.966,"body":"So the option is to reduce the attack vector"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":649.998,"endTime":654.25,"body":"as much as possible and try to mitigate that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":649.998,"endTime":654.25,"body":"as much as possible."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":654.63,"endTime":661.022,"body":"And so with open secret and with confidential"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":654.63,"endTime":661.022,"body":"computing, what happens is we are able to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":661.126,"endTime":666.414,"body":"publish our code open source online, we have"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":661.126,"endTime":666.414,"body":"reproducible builds and you get a checksum"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":666.462,"endTime":670.606,"body":"after you build the code and then you can go"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":666.462,"endTime":670.606,"body":"look at the attestation from the secure"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":670.638,"endTime":671.902,"body":"enclave in the cloud and,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":671.926,"endTime":676.062,"body":"and look at that checksum and compare the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":671.926,"endTime":676.062,"body":"results and see that it is indeed the same"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":676.086,"endTime":677.422,"body":"code running on both."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":677.606,"endTime":679.614,"body":"And that's, that's the security model that we"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":679.622,"endTime":680.894,"body":"are building on top of."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":680.982,"endTime":685.822,"body":"And we want to bring that to, you know, any"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":680.982,"endTime":685.822,"body":"app developer out there without them having to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":685.846,"endTime":690.862,"body":"learn how to build an enclave, how to run code"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":685.846,"endTime":690.862,"body":"there and, and deal with all of that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":690.886,"endTime":691.678,"body":"Headache."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":691.854,"endTime":694.974,"body":"Yeah. So I think kind of just"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":691.854,"endTime":694.974,"body":"summarizing to make sure that I'm"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":695.022,"endTime":699.926,"body":"understanding the idea behind this is that I"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":695.022,"endTime":699.926,"body":"mean, we've been able to do intent encryption"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":699.958,"endTime":704.934,"body":"for a very long time, but the problem has"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":699.958,"endTime":704.934,"body":"normally been how do you prove that perhaps"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":704.982,"endTime":708.054,"body":"the server that you're sending data to or"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":704.982,"endTime":708.054,"body":"maybe the encryption itself,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":708.102,"endTime":712.822,"body":"how is, how can you prove that on the server"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":708.102,"endTime":712.822,"body":"side that's doing what it's supposed to and"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":712.846,"endTime":718.998,"body":"how do you store those secrets in a way that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":712.846,"endTime":718.998,"body":"provable and that's the big breakthrough here,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":719.054,"endTime":723.894,"body":"is that now it's, it's not just we promise"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":719.054,"endTime":723.894,"body":"that we're using the servers that we say we"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":723.902,"endTime":726.348,"body":"are and that we're not doing all of these"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":723.902,"endTime":726.348,"body":"extra things,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":726.404,"endTime":729.772,"body":"but now there's a way for users to actually"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":726.404,"endTime":729.772,"body":"validate that and then obviously the clients,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":729.836,"endTime":736.252,"body":"the wallet apps, the web apps, whatever, to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":729.836,"endTime":736.252,"body":"able to actually validate what's running in"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":736.276,"endTime":736.828,"body":"the cloud."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":736.924,"endTime":740.412,"body":"So it's kind of a two pronged thing where"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":736.924,"endTime":740.412,"body":"you're using it for privacy, it can be used"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":740.436,"endTime":745.74,"body":"for a lot of other things, but you're Using it"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":740.436,"endTime":745.74,"body":"for privacy in a way that users can really be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":745.78,"endTime":747.66,"body":"sure that you're doing what you say you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":745.78,"endTime":747.66,"body":"doing."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":747.7,"endTime":750.96,"body":"And even like you said, go through build it"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":747.7,"endTime":750.96,"body":"themselves,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":751.28,"endTime":756.264,"body":"make sure that the code that you're running in"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":751.28,"endTime":756.264,"body":"secure enclaves is actually what's expected"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":756.352,"endTime":756.6,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":756.64,"endTime":759.56,"body":"And that gives much more trust minimization."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":759.64,"endTime":763.432,"body":"And I'm glad that you mentioned that, like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":759.64,"endTime":763.432,"body":"there always is trust, like there's, I think"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":763.456,"endTime":767.86,"body":"this, the word trustless shouldn't really be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":763.456,"endTime":767.86,"body":"in our vocabulary when it comes to technology"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":768.24,"endTime":771.464,"body":"because at some level there always is trust."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":771.512,"endTime":773.22,"body":"I mean, even when we're talking about."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":774.4,"endTime":779.002,"body":"Well, yeah, basically no one has the ability"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":774.4,"endTime":779.002,"body":"to individually, by themselves understand"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":779.106,"endTime":782.49,"body":"every level of the stack and have built every"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":779.106,"endTime":782.49,"body":"level of the stack from bottom to top."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":782.53,"endTime":786.362,"body":"You're not building the CPUs or if you are,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":782.53,"endTime":786.362,"body":"you're not writing all the code or like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":786.386,"endTime":787.834,"body":"there's no one that can prop."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":787.922,"endTime":792.682,"body":"That can possibly say they know for sure that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":787.922,"endTime":792.682,"body":"nothing can happen or go wrong."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":792.746,"endTime":796.794,"body":"So it's not about being trustless, but it's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":792.746,"endTime":796.794,"body":"about minimizing the amount of trust and the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":796.802,"endTime":798.474,"body":"people that you have to put trust in."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":798.562,"endTime":802.026,"body":"And I think that's the exciting thing for me"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":798.562,"endTime":802.026,"body":"with OpenSecret is it continues to minimize"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":802.058,"endTime":802.49,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":802.61,"endTime":805.306,"body":"Yes, you're still reliant on intel or whoever"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":805.338,"endTime":812.266,"body":"the secure enclave hardware manufacturer at it"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":805.338,"endTime":812.266,"body":"is, but that's another shift in trust away"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":812.338,"endTime":815.21,"body":"from any sysadmin at Amazon or something."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":815.25,"endTime":816.906,"body":"Being able to have access to the data."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":817.058,"endTime":818.362,"body":"Yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":818.506,"endTime":821.642,"body":"And to piggyback on that, there's trust"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":821.706,"endTime":825.194,"body":"minimization I think is something that we"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":821.706,"endTime":825.194,"body":"should all strive for."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":825.362,"endTime":830.266,"body":"And then the other big unlock here with Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":825.362,"endTime":830.266,"body":"Secret is the user experience, because with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":830.338,"endTime":838.46,"body":"end to end encryption you can provide a very"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":830.338,"endTime":838.46,"body":"strong E2E product in the sense that users can"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":838.5,"endTime":842.636,"body":"manage like this long private key or a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":838.5,"endTime":842.636,"body":"passphrase or some pin."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":842.748,"endTime":847.132,"body":"There are things that they can do and then"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":842.748,"endTime":847.132,"body":"they can use apps like little Snitch to kind"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":847.156,"endTime":850.7,"body":"of inspect the traffic as it goes out and they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":847.156,"endTime":850.7,"body":"can run the client software themselves."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":850.78,"endTime":854.732,"body":"And there are a lot of assurances you can give"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":850.78,"endTime":854.732,"body":"yourself, but that is a much more difficult"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":854.796,"endTime":856.22,"body":"experience for the user."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":856.38,"endTime":859.132,"body":"And when you look at trying to scale an app to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":859.156,"endTime":864.434,"body":"millions of users or a hundred million users"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":859.156,"endTime":864.434,"body":"or a billion users, it that user experience"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":864.522,"endTime":866.29,"body":"becomes a non starter for them."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":866.41,"endTime":872.37,"body":"So then they end up just going to some kind of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":866.41,"endTime":872.37,"body":"like proprietary backend, some big captured"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":872.45,"endTime":875.026,"body":"system and they end up with no privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":875.138,"endTime":877.31,"body":"They end up being the product of that system."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":877.69,"endTime":881.858,"body":"So how do we like, you know, find this middle"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":877.69,"endTime":881.858,"body":"ground where we can have great user experience"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":881.994,"endTime":886.216,"body":"but provide the highest level of privacy"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":881.994,"endTime":886.216,"body":"possible within that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":886.338,"endTime":888.364,"body":"And that is the, the balance."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":888.412,"endTime":893.292,"body":"And the marriage that we're trying to have"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":888.412,"endTime":893.292,"body":"here with Open Secret is, is you get like a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":893.316,"endTime":894.764,"body":"really easy login experience."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":894.852,"endTime":896.572,"body":"You can create your account with email, you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":896.596,"endTime":897.404,"body":"can create your account."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":897.492,"endTime":899.196,"body":"You actually don't have to create an account."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":899.348,"endTime":901.452,"body":"You know, some of our app developers, we have"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":901.476,"endTime":905.564,"body":"like this guest mode where an open secret"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":901.476,"endTime":905.564,"body":"account is created for them automatically."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":905.612,"endTime":906.892,"body":"It's, it's anonymous."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":907.036,"endTime":909.612,"body":"And then they still get the benefit of, you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":909.636,"endTime":912.108,"body":"know, of that end to end encryption that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":909.636,"endTime":912.108,"body":"happening for them."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":912.164,"endTime":919.456,"body":"So we have to solve the UX in order to make"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":912.164,"endTime":919.456,"body":"people adopt privacy tools because sadly"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":919.568,"endTime":921.68,"body":"people just don't care about privacy enough in"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":919.568,"endTime":921.68,"body":"their lives."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":921.72,"endTime":921.92,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":921.96,"endTime":923.984,"body":"They have so many other things to worry about"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":924.152,"endTime":925.984,"body":"that it's low on the totem pole."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":926.032,"endTime":928.352,"body":"Like deep down they do care about it, but they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":928.376,"endTime":929.76,"body":"just don't have time to think about it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":929.8,"endTime":932.38,"body":"So they go with the thing that feels safe"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":929.8,"endTime":932.38,"body":"enough."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":932.68,"endTime":934.448,"body":"Yeah, I definitely echo that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":934.504,"endTime":936.816,"body":"I think the thing that's become clear to me in"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":936.888,"endTime":942.796,"body":"the last few years of really focusing heavily"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":936.888,"endTime":942.796,"body":"in the privacy space is I would argue that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":942.948,"endTime":945.66,"body":"basically everyone does care about personal"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":942.948,"endTime":945.66,"body":"privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":945.74,"endTime":949.852,"body":"I think there's many examples of that shift,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":945.74,"endTime":949.852,"body":"especially the last four or five years of it"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":949.876,"endTime":951.868,"body":"becoming a much more commonplace thing."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":951.924,"endTime":954.364,"body":"I mean, even you working at Apple, their shift"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":954.412,"endTime":960.54,"body":"in marketing to be very privacy centric shows"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":954.412,"endTime":960.54,"body":"how valuable the idea of privacy is."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":960.58,"endTime":963.388,"body":"So they're willing to spend hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":960.58,"endTime":963.388,"body":"millions of dollars or however much they've"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":963.404,"endTime":966.32,"body":"spent on those marketing campaigns around"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":963.404,"endTime":966.32,"body":"privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":966.65,"endTime":971.65,"body":"But people are not usually willing to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":966.65,"endTime":971.65,"body":"sacrifice a serious amount of quality of life"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":971.69,"endTime":977.362,"body":"or spend a ton of time or lose access to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":971.69,"endTime":977.362,"body":"friends and family or those sorts of things in"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":977.386,"endTime":978.77,"body":"order to achieve that privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":978.85,"endTime":983.666,"body":"So it really is that the lower we get that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":978.85,"endTime":983.666,"body":"barrier of entry, the better we make the user"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":983.698,"endTime":984.322,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":984.506,"endTime":986.434,"body":"Far more people will actually take actionable"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":986.482,"endTime":990.99,"body":"steps and will actually jump into doing"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":986.482,"endTime":990.99,"body":"something about their personal privacy because"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":991.29,"endTime":992.786,"body":"I think people really do care."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":992.858,"endTime":994.322,"body":"They just feel overwhelmed by it."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":994.346,"endTime":996.178,"body":"Well, I don't, I can't actually do these"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":996.234,"endTime":996.498,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":996.554,"endTime":998.082,"body":"They seem too, too daunting."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":998.146,"endTime":1003.646,"body":"U but that UX piece, the user experience is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":998.146,"endTime":1003.646,"body":"really where we can drive change."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1003.718,"endTime":1010.222,"body":"So I'm glad that that's a big focus at"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1003.718,"endTime":1010.222,"body":"OpenSecret and shifting gears a little bit."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1010.406,"endTime":1014.206,"body":"So with OpenSecret, obviously you talked about"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1010.406,"endTime":1014.206,"body":"it, you want it to be a broad developer"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1014.238,"endTime":1019.07,"body":"platform and that's really the vision that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1014.238,"endTime":1019.07,"body":"people can build more privacy, preserving more"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1019.11,"endTime":1023.646,"body":"trust, minimized tooling by using OpenSecret"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1019.11,"endTime":1023.646,"body":"as part of their backend."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1023.838,"endTime":1029.718,"body":"And y'all as a company, launched the first"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1023.838,"endTime":1029.718,"body":"product that's using Open Secret and that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1029.734,"endTime":1030.694,"body":"called Maple AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1030.742,"endTime":1032.742,"body":"You launched that, I don't know, a month or"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1032.766,"endTime":1033.126,"body":"two ago."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1033.198,"endTime":1034.022,"body":"Yeah, last month."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1034.126,"endTime":1034.918,"body":"Yeah, last month."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1034.974,"endTime":1037.478,"body":"So. So that was the first kind of."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1037.614,"endTime":1040.886,"body":"I mean, it's not a proof of concept, it's a,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1037.614,"endTime":1040.886,"body":"it's a live, functioning, really good"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1040.958,"endTime":1045.478,"body":"production tool, but proof of concept in the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1040.958,"endTime":1045.478,"body":"sense that it shows what's possible with Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1045.534,"endTime":1048.63,"body":"Secret and hits on a niche that's very popular"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1045.534,"endTime":1048.63,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1048.67,"endTime":1050.646,"body":"So I'd love to hear a little bit more about,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1048.67,"endTime":1050.646,"body":"like, why."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1050.798,"endTime":1055.976,"body":"Why was an AI chat product the first thing"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1050.798,"endTime":1055.976,"body":"that you wanted to launch out of Open Secret?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1056.048,"endTime":1058.456,"body":"What made it the go to starter project?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1058.608,"endTime":1059.3,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1059.84,"endTime":1065.432,"body":"So when we started looking at pivoting to Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1059.84,"endTime":1065.432,"body":"Secret, you know, like any good startup would"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1065.456,"endTime":1069.0,"body":"do, you start meeting with potential users and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1065.456,"endTime":1069.0,"body":"potential customers."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1069.16,"endTime":1070.696,"body":"And we just, we floated this idea."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1070.728,"endTime":1072.616,"body":"By then we're like, this isn't a sales"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1070.728,"endTime":1072.616,"body":"meeting."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1072.688,"endTime":1076.936,"body":"We just want to say, like, if this thing"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1072.688,"endTime":1076.936,"body":"existed, would you use it the developer"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1076.968,"endTime":1077.58,"body":"platform?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1078.0,"endTime":1080.586,"body":"And we got, we got varying responses."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1080.688,"endTime":1082.886,"body":"About half of the developers were like, hell"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1082.918,"endTime":1084.95,"body":"yeah, we want to jump onto something like"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1082.918,"endTime":1084.95,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1084.99,"endTime":1087.462,"body":"This is, this is exactly what we've been"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1084.99,"endTime":1087.462,"body":"waiting for."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1087.646,"endTime":1093.222,"body":"The other half said, well, we just build these"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1087.646,"endTime":1093.222,"body":"apps for people that they're okay with their"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1093.246,"endTime":1098.422,"body":"data getting slurped up and we like selling"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1093.246,"endTime":1098.422,"body":"our information to third parties and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1098.446,"endTime":1099.286,"body":"advertisers."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1099.398,"endTime":1103.59,"body":"So they're like, even though we can see why"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1099.398,"endTime":1103.59,"body":"this is cool, like we wouldn't actually use"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1103.63,"endTime":1104.97,"body":"this for our apps."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1105.31,"endTime":1109.42,"body":"However, almost a hundred percent of the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1105.31,"endTime":1109.42,"body":"people we talked to, regardless of which side"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1109.46,"endTime":1114.012,"body":"of that debate they fell on, we asked them"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1109.46,"endTime":1114.012,"body":"like, well, what are some use cases that you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1114.036,"endTime":1115.676,"body":"would use personally in your life?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1115.828,"endTime":1118.3,"body":"And they said, well, we would use AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1118.46,"endTime":1120.492,"body":"I don't like the fact that when I chat with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1120.516,"endTime":1125.276,"body":"ChatGPT or other companies, I'm giving away"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1120.516,"endTime":1125.276,"body":"all of this, like really sensitive information"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1125.348,"endTime":1125.9,"body":"about me."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1125.94,"endTime":1127.404,"body":"And you know, we."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1127.572,"endTime":1130.7,"body":"Fifteen years ago, the big thing online was go"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1130.74,"endTime":1134.06,"body":"look at your Google Ad profile and look at"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1130.74,"endTime":1134.06,"body":"what they've built about you."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1134.1,"endTime":1134.3,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1134.34,"endTime":1135.532,"body":"And like you can go click on it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1135.556,"endTime":1138.82,"body":"And it's very creepy to see what Google knows"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1135.556,"endTime":1138.82,"body":"about you."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1138.94,"endTime":1142.372,"body":"They can guess your age pretty closely, they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1138.94,"endTime":1142.372,"body":"can guess your gender, they can guess all"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1142.396,"endTime":1146.44,"body":"these things about you just based off of your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1142.396,"endTime":1146.44,"body":"web surfing traffic."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1146.78,"endTime":1154.164,"body":"And Fast forward now 15 years later and AI is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1146.78,"endTime":1154.164,"body":"able to like build a much more detailed"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1154.212,"endTime":1157.396,"body":"profile on you and take action on that if they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1154.212,"endTime":1157.396,"body":"want to."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1157.548,"endTime":1161.396,"body":"So there's this like huge privacy leak of us"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1157.548,"endTime":1161.396,"body":"just giving all this information away."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1161.468,"endTime":1166.228,"body":"So they kept telling us if that existed, if I"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1161.468,"endTime":1166.228,"body":"could chat privately with AI, like that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1166.244,"endTime":1167.28,"body":"something I would use."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1167.61,"endTime":1172.85,"body":"So we thought we need some kind of proof of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1167.61,"endTime":1172.85,"body":"concept to see if this developer platform is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1172.89,"endTime":1173.442,"body":"viable."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1173.586,"endTime":1175.65,"body":"Because for us the user experience is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1175.69,"endTime":1176.63,"body":"paramount."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1176.97,"endTime":1182.834,"body":"There is no reason really I think, to build a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1176.97,"endTime":1182.834,"body":"privacy platform if it just ends up with the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1182.842,"endTime":1186.91,"body":"same difficult user experience that other end"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1182.842,"endTime":1186.91,"body":"to end encrypted apps have."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1187.29,"endTime":1190.882,"body":"And app developers wouldn't adopt it if the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1187.29,"endTime":1190.882,"body":"user experience wasn't there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1190.906,"endTime":1193.07,"body":"So we said let's build this,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1193.53,"endTime":1194.914,"body":"build this AI product."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1195.082,"endTime":1198.034,"body":"We set out just to build it, mostly for us to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1198.042,"endTime":1199.106,"body":"see if it would work."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1199.258,"endTime":1202.322,"body":"But then very early on it was one, it was very"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1202.346,"endTime":1203.154,"body":"simple to build."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1203.242,"endTime":1207.746,"body":"We were surprised at the ease of which we were"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1203.242,"endTime":1207.746,"body":"able to build on this platform."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1207.938,"endTime":1211.49,"body":"And then we said, well, other users could"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1207.938,"endTime":1211.49,"body":"benefit from this."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1211.61,"endTime":1213.138,"body":"There wasn't anything on the market."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1213.274,"endTime":1219.17,"body":"We found two other proof of concept apps out"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1213.274,"endTime":1219.17,"body":"there, but they were only proof of concept and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1219.21,"endTime":1223.036,"body":"they kept giving us know 500 level server"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1219.21,"endTime":1223.036,"body":"errors when we try to use them."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1223.188,"endTime":1227.244,"body":"And so we said let's just build this and put"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1223.188,"endTime":1227.244,"body":"it out in the market, let users use it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1227.412,"endTime":1231.852,"body":"And if we don't make any money off of it and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1227.412,"endTime":1231.852,"body":"it just ends up being a proof of concept in"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1231.876,"endTime":1232.972,"body":"the end, that's fine."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1233.116,"endTime":1235.548,"body":"But we think that people are going to find"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1233.116,"endTime":1235.548,"body":"real value in it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1235.604,"endTime":1238.732,"body":"And so we put it out there and the response"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1235.604,"endTime":1238.732,"body":"has been great so far."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1238.836,"endTime":1240.988,"body":"We have a lot of users who are really enjoying"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1238.836,"endTime":1240.988,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1241.124,"endTime":1243.292,"body":"But that's, that's the impetus for,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1244.5,"endTime":1249.472,"body":"is really just born out of developers telling"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1244.5,"endTime":1249.472,"body":"us this is a tool that we would use in our"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1249.496,"endTime":1250.38,"body":"personal life."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1250.68,"endTime":1255.888,"body":"Yeah, AI is a fascinating example"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1250.68,"endTime":1255.888,"body":"of that because like you mentioned, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1255.904,"endTime":1260.0,"body":"not even just your browsing history, but it's,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1255.904,"endTime":1260.0,"body":"it's almost even like your thought process."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1260.12,"endTime":1266.16,"body":"If you think about what you're giving to an AI"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1260.12,"endTime":1266.16,"body":"in these conversations is you're essentially"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1266.32,"endTime":1269.376,"body":"detailing how you think, what do you think,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1269.528,"endTime":1274.048,"body":"what your reasoning is, like how you approach"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1269.528,"endTime":1274.048,"body":"different logic, like what things you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1274.064,"endTime":1274.688,"body":"interested in."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1274.744,"endTime":1276.336,"body":"Obviously trips you're planning."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1276.368,"endTime":1278.176,"body":"I know a lot of people use it for planning"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1276.368,"endTime":1278.176,"body":"trips."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1278.208,"endTime":1283.344,"body":"Like it's a, it's a very large amount of"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1278.208,"endTime":1283.344,"body":"information from a personal level."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1283.512,"endTime":1285.84,"body":"So I can definitely understand the personal"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1283.512,"endTime":1285.84,"body":"draw there as well."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1285.88,"endTime":1289.712,"body":"But I think also on the business level, I know"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1285.88,"endTime":1289.712,"body":"that there are a lot of companies that are"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1289.736,"endTime":1294.336,"body":"just absolutely terrified of their employees"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1289.736,"endTime":1294.336,"body":"using any AI tool right now,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1294.408,"endTime":1299.216,"body":"because most of them would love to siphon off"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1294.408,"endTime":1299.216,"body":"whatever data enterprise employees are willing"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1299.248,"endTime":1304.064,"body":"to upload because of how valuable that is, how"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1299.248,"endTime":1304.064,"body":"much IP there is, all of the things that are"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1304.072,"endTime":1306.972,"body":"involved in the information at businesses."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1307.036,"endTime":1308.924,"body":"And like, I even know a friend who works in a."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1309.012,"endTime":1310.668,"body":"A business in the tech industry who have"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1310.724,"endTime":1315.772,"body":"essentially outlawed any AI app at all for any"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1310.724,"endTime":1315.772,"body":"employee because they're just scared of that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1315.796,"endTime":1318.748,"body":"But something like Maple is a really"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1315.796,"endTime":1318.748,"body":"fascinating solution."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1318.924,"endTime":1323.884,"body":"Obviously, if they can't build their own LLM"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1318.924,"endTime":1323.884,"body":"setup on site or something like that, it's a"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1323.892,"endTime":1329.196,"body":"really interesting solution because they can"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1323.892,"endTime":1329.196,"body":"again, have cryptographically guaranteed"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1329.388,"endTime":1334.476,"body":"privacy and ensure that their data is not just"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1329.388,"endTime":1334.476,"body":"going to some ChatGPT or to the Chinese"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1334.508,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"government through Deep SEQ or something like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1334.508,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1336.7,"endTime":1340.858,"body":"So it opens up a lot of potential pathways"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1336.7,"endTime":1340.858,"body":"too, for the enterprise level to be able to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1340.914,"endTime":1345.162,"body":"comfortably use it, even when it's used with"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1340.914,"endTime":1345.162,"body":"more sensitive information."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1345.266,"endTime":1348.618,"body":"So I definitely see that there's a lot of, a"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1345.266,"endTime":1348.618,"body":"lot of value there."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1348.674,"endTime":1350.23,"body":"And I know that there are."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1350.69,"endTime":1354.618,"body":"There's other providers in the space who make"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1350.69,"endTime":1354.618,"body":"a lot of claims about privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1354.794,"endTime":1358.762,"body":"And I don't necessarily want to get into like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1354.794,"endTime":1358.762,"body":"a bash fest, but I know, like, specifically"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1358.906,"endTime":1360.714,"body":"Venice is one that I've used."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1360.882,"endTime":1365.642,"body":"Eric talks a lot about the privacy that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1360.882,"endTime":1365.642,"body":"theoretical around it, but it seems to me that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1365.666,"endTime":1367.722,"body":"a lot of their claims are basically just that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1367.826,"endTime":1369.29,"body":"What you mentioned at the top of the show,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1369.33,"endTime":1373.226,"body":"like, this idea of just trust us not to log is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1369.33,"endTime":1373.226,"body":"basically the claim."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1373.378,"endTime":1377.898,"body":"And I'm just curious how you would compare,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1373.378,"endTime":1377.898,"body":"like, Maple's privacy to something like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1377.954,"endTime":1382.442,"body":"Venice, which also markets itself as privacy,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1377.954,"endTime":1382.442,"body":"but doesn't seem to take the same technical"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1382.506,"endTime":1383.898,"body":"approach on the back end."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1384.034,"endTime":1385.274,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1385.322,"endTime":1387.482,"body":"And I think I got that line from you in your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1387.506,"endTime":1389.29,"body":"email to me that trust us not to log."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1389.33,"endTime":1391.73,"body":"So I don't want to take credit from you, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1392.51,"endTime":1394.45,"body":"Venice is a cool product."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1394.83,"endTime":1396.774,"body":"I am a paying user of Venice."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1396.822,"endTime":1398.646,"body":"I have been for a long time."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1398.798,"endTime":1402.838,"body":"I first found out about it when he went on to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1398.798,"endTime":1402.838,"body":"the what Bitcoin did podcast."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1402.934,"endTime":1404.774,"body":"And I was totally sold on it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1404.862,"endTime":1409.702,"body":"I've followed Eric for years and other things"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1404.862,"endTime":1409.702,"body":"that he's done in the space, in bitcoin space"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1409.806,"endTime":1411.37,"body":"and crypto."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1411.87,"endTime":1414.422,"body":"So I thought, okay, this is a cool idea, cool"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1411.87,"endTime":1414.422,"body":"concept."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1414.486,"endTime":1418.054,"body":"I signed up right away and then I started"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1414.486,"endTime":1418.054,"body":"looking into the privacy claims."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1418.102,"endTime":1419.814,"body":"And it is a lot of trust."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1419.862,"endTime":1425.52,"body":"They're running a proxy, and so you send your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1419.862,"endTime":1425.52,"body":"request to them, they proxy it through to the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1425.56,"endTime":1427.18,"body":"LLM and then back."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1427.72,"endTime":1430.02,"body":"So when you're looking at trust minimization,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1430.52,"endTime":1436.016,"body":"like, it does minimize it, minimizes your risk"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1430.52,"endTime":1436.016,"body":"a little bit more than using ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1436.128,"endTime":1437.472,"body":"So for me, that felt fine."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1437.536,"endTime":1438.928,"body":"Like, okay, I'm still trusting another"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1438.984,"endTime":1442.672,"body":"company, but at least this one is claiming to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1438.984,"endTime":1442.672,"body":"be secure."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1442.736,"endTime":1447.792,"body":"And given their track record of other things"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1442.736,"endTime":1447.792,"body":"they've worked on, I trust them a little bit"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1447.816,"endTime":1448.444,"body":"more."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1448.632,"endTime":1452.372,"body":"But I'm still not willing to, like, divulge my"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1452.396,"endTime":1455.844,"body":"deepest, darkest thoughts or, you know, even"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1452.396,"endTime":1455.844,"body":"my most personal thoughts."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1455.892,"endTime":1456.98,"body":"It doesn't have to be dark."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1457.06,"endTime":1458.788,"body":"And I'm not going to give my company secrets"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1458.804,"endTime":1459.88,"body":"over to it either."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1461.02,"endTime":1462.5,"body":"So that's, that's really what it is."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1462.54,"endTime":1465.22,"body":"And I've interacted with Eric a little bit on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1465.26,"endTime":1468.068,"body":"Twitter and he did mention that they're."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1468.164,"endTime":1470.868,"body":"They're currently looking at a cryptographic"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1470.964,"endTime":1474.986,"body":"solution so that you can verify the trust"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1470.964,"endTime":1474.986,"body":"model that they have."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1475.108,"endTime":1476.49,"body":"I don't know what that means."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1476.79,"endTime":1478.91,"body":"We haven't talked more beyond that, really,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1479.03,"endTime":1481.342,"body":"but that's the public information out there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1481.526,"endTime":1484.286,"body":"So it just comes down to users having"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1484.358,"endTime":1488.878,"body":"different options available to them and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1484.358,"endTime":1488.878,"body":"choosing the piece of information that I'm"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1488.894,"endTime":1489.85,"body":"about to share."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1490.31,"endTime":1495.95,"body":"What functionality do I need from my AI and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1490.31,"endTime":1495.95,"body":"what level of privacy is needed for this"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1495.99,"endTime":1499.598,"body":"information?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1495.99,"endTime":1499.598,"body":"Now, ChatGPT has like, some of the best"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1499.654,"endTime":1500.764,"body":"functionality out there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1500.862,"endTime":1503.888,"body":"Their 01 Pro deep research model is really"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1503.944,"endTime":1504.368,"body":"cool."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1504.464,"endTime":1505.968,"body":"It's very powerful."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1506.144,"endTime":1508.704,"body":"And so if you don't, if you're acting on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1508.792,"endTime":1514.0,"body":"public information and you need to use that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1508.792,"endTime":1514.0,"body":"for some reason, like, go for it, but just"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1514.04,"endTime":1515.504,"body":"know what risk you're taking."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1515.672,"endTime":1520.8,"body":"And then if you need something that is private"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1515.672,"endTime":1520.8,"body":"so you can share proprietary information from"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1520.84,"endTime":1523.82,"body":"work or your own personal proprietary"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1520.84,"endTime":1523.82,"body":"information,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1524.2,"endTime":1526.16,"body":"then you would use something more like Maple."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1526.24,"endTime":1527.904,"body":"But Maple doesn't have as much functionality."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1527.952,"endTime":1528.112,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1528.136,"endTime":1529.68,"body":"We don't have image generation right now."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1529.72,"endTime":1532.7,"body":"We just have text reasoning with the model."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1533.2,"endTime":1537.32,"body":"So you can look at something like Venice to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1533.2,"endTime":1537.32,"body":"say, well, I want to do ImageGen."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1537.48,"endTime":1539.608,"body":"I don't want, I don't trust ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1539.784,"endTime":1542.28,"body":"Maybe I want to generate something that is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1542.32,"endTime":1544.984,"body":"more personal for me and you can use that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1545.072,"endTime":1549.272,"body":"So it's really just these, this spectrum of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1545.072,"endTime":1549.272,"body":"privacy that you have to choose from."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1549.456,"endTime":1552.024,"body":"Yeah, I think when I think about"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1549.456,"endTime":1552.024,"body":"it, I almost think of Venice."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1552.072,"endTime":1557.5,"body":"Like a VPN provider is an interesting analogy"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1552.072,"endTime":1557.5,"body":"because like you said, essentially they're,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1557.99,"endTime":1563.582,"body":"they are acting as the person that you trust"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1557.99,"endTime":1563.582,"body":"instead of whatever LLM provider you would be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1563.606,"endTime":1564.366,"body":"trusting otherwise."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1564.398,"endTime":1566.302,"body":"Whether that's ChatGPT or Deep Seek or"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1566.326,"endTime":1570.206,"body":"whoever, you're just trusting them with your"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1566.326,"endTime":1570.206,"body":"data instead of someone else."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1570.238,"endTime":1572.046,"body":"And I think that's a reasonable model."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1572.078,"endTime":1573.925,"body":"I mean, just like VPNs, they're really good"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1573.982,"endTime":1578.094,"body":"VPNs that have proven that they do not log,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1573.982,"endTime":1578.094,"body":"that do have a real commitment to privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1578.222,"endTime":1583.092,"body":"But it is, I would argue, not trust"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1578.222,"endTime":1583.092,"body":"minimization, but rather a shift in trust."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1583.206,"endTime":1583.576,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1583.648,"endTime":1587.528,"body":"To someone who hopefully you trust"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1583.648,"endTime":1587.528,"body":"more and who should be aligned with that and"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1587.584,"endTime":1590.824,"body":"who does have a financial incentive to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1587.584,"endTime":1590.824,"body":"preserve privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1590.872,"endTime":1594.76,"body":"So like, there's, there's good rationale"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1590.872,"endTime":1594.76,"body":"there, but it is definitely like a."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1594.8,"endTime":1597.48,"body":"Just a shift of trust rather than trust"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1594.8,"endTime":1597.48,"body":"minimization."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1597.64,"endTime":1603.448,"body":"Whereas I almost think of Maple and Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1597.64,"endTime":1603.448,"body":"Secret as like using Tor, but with a website"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1603.504,"endTime":1607.832,"body":"that's actually on Tor, where there's very,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1603.504,"endTime":1607.832,"body":"very, very little trust actually happening"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1607.896,"endTime":1610.16,"body":"because you're, you're using."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1610.7,"endTime":1611.716,"body":"It's not a great analogy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1611.748,"endTime":1613.412,"body":"Maybe it falls apart a little bit, but just"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1613.436,"endTime":1618.772,"body":"that it's a little bit more end to end and"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1613.436,"endTime":1618.772,"body":"much more trust minimized than something like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1618.796,"endTime":1619.38,"body":"a vpn."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1619.46,"endTime":1621.3,"body":"So, yeah, definitely pros and cons though."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1621.34,"endTime":1623.092,"body":"And like you, I've been using Venice as well"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1623.116,"endTime":1626.916,"body":"for quite a while and do really appreciate the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1623.116,"endTime":1626.916,"body":"product and really like a lot of things Eric"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1626.948,"endTime":1628.0,"body":"has done in the space."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1628.46,"endTime":1634.324,"body":"So it's cool to see again that privacy is so"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1628.46,"endTime":1634.324,"body":"important to people now that we have AI"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1634.372,"endTime":1638.292,"body":"products marketing themselves around the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1634.372,"endTime":1638.292,"body":"privacy that they provide and building better"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1638.316,"endTime":1640.242,"body":"and better solutions to provide privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1640.396,"endTime":1641.43,"body":"Because there is real demand."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1641.47,"endTime":1643.142,"body":"I think it's just, it's a really encouraging"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1643.206,"endTime":1647.334,"body":"thing to think about that there actually is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1643.206,"endTime":1647.334,"body":"enough demand for this for there to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1647.422,"endTime":1650.934,"body":"multiple products in the space that are trying"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1647.422,"endTime":1650.934,"body":"to make something like this more privacy"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1650.982,"endTime":1651.51,"body":"preserving."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1651.59,"endTime":1654.678,"body":"So I think that's, that's really cool to see"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1651.59,"endTime":1654.678,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1654.814,"endTime":1659.91,"body":"Yeah. And I don't see a need really"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1654.814,"endTime":1659.91,"body":"to like go after them and try and bash them."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1659.95,"endTime":1661.782,"body":"I don't think it's a zero sum game here."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1661.886,"endTime":1663.862,"body":"There are enough people in the world that need"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1663.886,"endTime":1669.75,"body":"to have better privacy with AI that we could"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1663.886,"endTime":1669.75,"body":"all kind of benefit from just expanding and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1669.79,"endTime":1672.09,"body":"educating the market more on these tools."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1672.69,"endTime":1679.322,"body":"I just think it is important to point out what"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1672.69,"endTime":1679.322,"body":"the privacy arrangement is and if people are"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1679.346,"endTime":1684.17,"body":"okay with what Venice has, then they should"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1679.346,"endTime":1684.17,"body":"totally go use that product again."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1684.21,"endTime":1688.522,"body":"They have more functionality than we do, so"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1684.21,"endTime":1688.522,"body":"they might only need to use that because we"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1688.546,"endTime":1690.55,"body":"don't have the feature that they're looking"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1688.546,"endTime":1690.55,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1691.25,"endTime":1694.026,"body":"We are looking at expanding Maple."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1694.218,"endTime":1696.714,"body":"We have a long list of features that we want"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1696.722,"endTime":1699.012,"body":"to add to it and those will come."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1699.196,"endTime":1700.788,"body":"We will be releasing more."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1700.844,"endTime":1704.644,"body":"Right now we've switched gears and the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1700.844,"endTime":1704.644,"body":"focusing on getting Open Secret, the developer"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1704.692,"endTime":1707.22,"body":"platform, up and running in production."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1707.38,"endTime":1710.18,"body":"Maple is the only app in production right now."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1710.3,"endTime":1713.172,"body":"Just yesterday we hit a major Milestone with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1713.196,"endTime":1718.308,"body":"it where we actually segregated it out to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1713.196,"endTime":1718.308,"body":"an act, to be its own separate third party"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1718.364,"endTime":1718.96,"body":"app."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1719.34,"endTime":1724.49,"body":"As you're probably aware, when you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1719.34,"endTime":1724.49,"body":"developing, sometimes you co mingle code where"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1724.53,"endTime":1725.77,"body":"that shouldn't be commingled."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1725.85,"endTime":1727.674,"body":"And as we were building this proof of concept"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1727.722,"endTime":1732.058,"body":"with the backend of OpenSecret, Maple was just"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1727.722,"endTime":1732.058,"body":"kind of like in there in the code."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1732.154,"endTime":1736.954,"body":"And so last night we pushed to production a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1732.154,"endTime":1736.954,"body":"new version of Maple that is fully separated"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1737.002,"endTime":1739.51,"body":"now, so it is being treated as a third party"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1737.002,"endTime":1739.51,"body":"app."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1739.81,"endTime":1745.37,"body":"And then next month we hope to have some"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1739.81,"endTime":1745.37,"body":"announcements around our first third party"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1745.41,"endTime":1749.562,"body":"developer that is building and launching in"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1745.41,"endTime":1749.562,"body":"production with us and we have a couple others"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1749.586,"endTime":1750.8,"body":"in the works as well."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1750.97,"endTime":1756.212,"body":"And sometime soon we will just open up the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1750.97,"endTime":1756.212,"body":"floodgates and say like any developer can come"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1756.236,"endTime":1760.58,"body":"hop on, play around with it, tinker with it,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1756.236,"endTime":1760.58,"body":"self service portal where you can set up your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1760.62,"endTime":1762.788,"body":"app and just really go hog wild."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1762.884,"endTime":1764.516,"body":"So we're looking forward to that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1764.588,"endTime":1766.66,"body":"Our focus is on getting open Secret to that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1766.7,"endTime":1771.524,"body":"point and then we will come back around to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1766.7,"endTime":1771.524,"body":"Maple and we have a whole bunch of great ideas"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1771.572,"endTime":1775.7,"body":"that we want to add into the app to make it"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1771.572,"endTime":1775.7,"body":"just that much more functional while still"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1775.74,"endTime":1778.01,"body":"providing the awesome user experience that,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1778.13,"endTime":1780.122,"body":"you know, that private AI can give you."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1780.306,"endTime":1781.226,"body":"Yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1781.258,"endTime":1782.842,"body":"And I'm, I'm, I'm definitely curious on the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1782.866,"endTime":1783.322,"body":"Maple side."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1783.346,"endTime":1785.274,"body":"I know maybe you don't have too much detail to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1785.282,"endTime":1789.05,"body":"share, but I'm curious where y'all will go"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1785.282,"endTime":1789.05,"body":"with especially like adding other models,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1789.13,"endTime":1792.314,"body":"expanding functionality, because that is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1789.13,"endTime":1792.314,"body":"really the only shortcoming to me."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1792.322,"endTime":1795.35,"body":"Like I would love to use Maple for everything,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1792.322,"endTime":1795.35,"body":"but I can't quite yet."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1795.97,"endTime":1799.51,"body":"But it'll definitely be cool to see y'all"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1795.97,"endTime":1799.51,"body":"expand that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1800.37,"endTime":1804.458,"body":"I guess the last question around Maple and"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1800.37,"endTime":1804.458,"body":"then I want to circle back to the Open Secret"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1804.514,"endTime":1808.638,"body":"a little bit more is just what, like we've"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1804.514,"endTime":1808.638,"body":"been talking about privacy and the different"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1808.694,"endTime":1811.422,"body":"privacy guarantees of these different"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1808.694,"endTime":1811.422,"body":"approaches."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1811.566,"endTime":1814.462,"body":"Are there any shortcomings?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1811.566,"endTime":1814.462,"body":"Like we've talked about how nothing is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1814.486,"endTime":1817.214,"body":"trustless, not even Maple and Open Secret is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1814.486,"endTime":1817.214,"body":"trustless."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1817.342,"endTime":1822.062,"body":"Are there any specific shortcomings or risks"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1817.342,"endTime":1822.062,"body":"that people need to be aware of, especially if"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1822.086,"endTime":1826.35,"body":"they have like a more extreme threat model or"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1822.086,"endTime":1826.35,"body":"like we mentioned, if they're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1826.39,"endTime":1829.758,"body":"uploading work secrets or something like that?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1829.814,"endTime":1832.862,"body":"Like what are the, the thought, what's the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1829.814,"endTime":1832.862,"body":"thought process for them around."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1832.966,"endTime":1836.59,"body":"What are the potential things that could go"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1832.966,"endTime":1836.59,"body":"wrong where they would lose privacy or not"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":1836.63,"endTime":1838.71,"body":"have the full privacy that maybe they expect?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1839.25,"endTime":1843.258,"body":"Yeah, so a couple things come to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1839.25,"endTime":1843.258,"body":"mind."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1843.314,"endTime":1844.59,"body":"The biggest,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1844.93,"endTime":1850.954,"body":"so the biggest cryptographic threat I guess or"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1844.93,"endTime":1850.954,"body":"the biggest vulnerability would be that the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1851.042,"endTime":1855.27,"body":"AWS team becomes compromised in some massive"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1851.042,"endTime":1855.27,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1856.21,"endTime":1861.21,"body":"It would take a lot, it would have to be a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1856.21,"endTime":1861.21,"body":"well orchestrated attack and it would"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1861.25,"endTime":1866.78,"body":"completely undermine their entire business"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1861.25,"endTime":1866.78,"body":"model around confidential computing."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1867.2,"endTime":1872.648,"body":"So it would be something that would take down"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1867.2,"endTime":1872.648,"body":"not only us, but financial institutions."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1872.824,"endTime":1876.072,"body":"You mentioned signal, right?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1872.824,"endTime":1876.072,"body":"Like a lot of big, large enterprise are"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1876.096,"endTime":1878.94,"body":"already using confidential computing"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1876.096,"endTime":1878.94,"body":"internally."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1879.52,"endTime":1884.696,"body":"So we're talking like a massive breach of epic"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1879.52,"endTime":1884.696,"body":"proportions."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1884.888,"endTime":1890.51,"body":"So that's really kind of like in our minds,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1884.888,"endTime":1890.51,"body":"the thing that we are keeping our eye on is,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1896.21,"body":"is how do we continue to build around that and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1896.21,"body":"shore up security around that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1896.33,"endTime":1902.85,"body":"We're looking in the future, like could we"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1896.33,"endTime":1902.85,"body":"provide a way for a developer building on open"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1902.89,"endTime":1908.258,"body":"secret to bring their own hardware security"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1902.89,"endTime":1908.258,"body":"module and like their own signing key"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1908.314,"endTime":1912.594,"body":"basically that would potentially minimize"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1908.314,"endTime":1912.594,"body":"their risk of that threat."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1912.762,"endTime":1918.5,"body":"So with when it comes to Maple users, in my"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1912.762,"endTime":1918.5,"body":"mind that's the biggest one, the one that is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1918.62,"endTime":1926.612,"body":"the second one that users would need to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1918.62,"endTime":1926.612,"body":"aware of more is like us secretly, not"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1926.636,"endTime":1930.02,"body":"secretly, but us putting a backdoor in the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1926.636,"endTime":1930.02,"body":"code and nobody noticing."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1930.18,"endTime":1934.516,"body":"So the way the Maple works, and this is really"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1930.18,"endTime":1934.516,"body":"the way that OpenSecret works and confidential"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1934.548,"endTime":1939.524,"body":"computing works is, you know, the code gets"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1934.548,"endTime":1939.524,"body":"published open source and then when you go"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1939.532,"endTime":1941.988,"body":"into the client, you start interacting with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1939.532,"endTime":1941.988,"body":"the app."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1942.124,"endTime":1944.26,"body":"There is this verified badge in there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1944.3,"endTime":1945.812,"body":"So if you go onto Maple, you've probably seen"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1945.836,"endTime":1947.412,"body":"it, there's like this lock icon."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1947.476,"endTime":1949.056,"body":"You click on that, it's got this green screen,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1949.088,"endTime":1950.096,"body":"verified check."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1950.208,"endTime":1952.7,"body":"And when you go in, we call it the proof of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1950.208,"endTime":1952.7,"body":"security."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1953.08,"endTime":1955.056,"body":"And this shows you the attest station."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1955.088,"endTime":1956.928,"body":"It shows you the servers that you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1956.944,"endTime":1962.064,"body":"connecting to, all of the servers in between"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1956.944,"endTime":1962.064,"body":"you and you know, and the end of the line."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1962.232,"endTime":1964.784,"body":"And so you can verify things along the way."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1964.952,"endTime":1969.38,"body":"And if we push an update into our servers,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1969.96,"endTime":1975.414,"body":"then, but the client doesn't know about it,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1969.96,"endTime":1975.414,"body":"then that attestation breaks and that lock"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1975.462,"endTime":1978.502,"body":"icon breaks and the client actually will"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1975.462,"endTime":1978.502,"body":"refuse to connect."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1978.566,"endTime":1979.59,"body":"So that is in the code."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1979.67,"endTime":1983.958,"body":"The code will not connect to a server"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1979.67,"endTime":1983.958,"body":"fingerprint that it isn't familiar with."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1984.094,"endTime":1988.31,"body":"So that prevents us from just like quietly"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1984.094,"endTime":1988.31,"body":"pushing something without publishing an open"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1988.35,"endTime":1989.878,"body":"source into the client."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1990.054,"endTime":1996.246,"body":"But the other thing we could do is if nobody's"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1990.054,"endTime":1996.246,"body":"looking, we can just publish it and say, hey"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1996.278,"endTime":2001.542,"body":"client, talk to this new backend code, put the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":1996.278,"endTime":2001.542,"body":"code on GitHub with a massive backdoor just"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2001.566,"endTime":2002.28,"body":"sitting in there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2002.39,"endTime":2006.324,"body":"And if nobody notices, then their client is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2002.39,"endTime":2006.324,"body":"going to happily connect because all the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2006.332,"endTime":2007.348,"body":"things check out."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2007.484,"endTime":2010.596,"body":"And now we're logging all of your chats so"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2010.668,"endTime":2015.28,"body":"that, and that's just kind of like that would"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2010.668,"endTime":2015.28,"body":"be, you know, out in the open."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2015.58,"endTime":2019.7,"body":"So where, where I think users could protect"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2015.58,"endTime":2019.7,"body":"themselves is one, they can depend on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2019.82,"endTime":2023.732,"body":"watchdogs, people that are in the industry"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2019.82,"endTime":2023.732,"body":"that are looking at every new release of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2023.756,"endTime":2028.942,"body":"Maple, every new release of Open source,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2023.756,"endTime":2028.942,"body":"sorry, of Open Secret code and making sure no"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2028.966,"endTime":2030.45,"body":"backdoors have been inserted."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2030.87,"endTime":2033.502,"body":"But most users aren't that technical."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2033.646,"endTime":2035.038,"body":"They don't know how to look at code and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2035.094,"endTime":2036.126,"body":"discover those backdoors."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2036.158,"endTime":2038.622,"body":"And this is actually where AI can really help"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2038.646,"endTime":2039.118,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2039.254,"endTime":2042.894,"body":"You could take our GitHub repo and feed it to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2042.902,"endTime":2046.19,"body":"ChatGPT and it's public info, so who cares?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2046.27,"endTime":2050.078,"body":"You feed it to ChatGPT and you say, hey,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2046.27,"endTime":2050.078,"body":"here's the latest release, here's the latest"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2050.134,"endTime":2050.734,"body":"code diff."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2050.822,"endTime":2052.51,"body":"Will you please tell me if they inserted any"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2052.55,"endTime":2054.414,"body":"backdoors?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2052.55,"endTime":2054.414,"body":"Are there any new security vulnerabilities"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2054.462,"endTime":2055.036,"body":"here?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2055.198,"endTime":2058.624,"body":"And 01Pro?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2055.198,"endTime":2058.624,"body":"Or you can feed it to Claude, you can feed it"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2058.632,"endTime":2061.216,"body":"to these LLMs that are really good at coding."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2061.248,"endTime":2064.368,"body":"Grok3 is great now too and it'll be able to do"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2064.424,"endTime":2065.44,"body":"a code audit for you."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2065.48,"endTime":2067.904,"body":"So you don't have to depend on like hiring a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2065.48,"endTime":2067.904,"body":"code auditor anymore."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2067.952,"endTime":2069.728,"body":"You don't have to be your own software"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2067.952,"endTime":2069.728,"body":"engineer."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2069.824,"endTime":2074.912,"body":"You can have the AIs do the code audit for you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2069.824,"endTime":2074.912,"body":"and keep us honest and make sure that when"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2074.936,"endTime":2078.704,"body":"you're connecting that you're okay with that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2074.936,"endTime":2078.704,"body":"green verified badge because you know that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2078.712,"endTime":2081.46,"body":"you've done your own personal security audit"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2078.712,"endTime":2081.46,"body":"of the code."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2081.87,"endTime":2083.126,"body":"That's a fascinating idea."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2083.158,"endTime":2084.198,"body":"I'd never thought of that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2084.254,"endTime":2089.51,"body":"For, for, for auditability there before is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2084.254,"endTime":2089.51,"body":"just use it, use AI to at least help."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2089.55,"endTime":2093.062,"body":"And obviously it's not the same level as like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2089.55,"endTime":2093.062,"body":"an actual like auditing firm looking at the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2093.086,"endTime":2097.142,"body":"code or someone who's individually deeply"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2093.086,"endTime":2097.142,"body":"comfortable with the code."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2097.206,"endTime":2100.534,"body":"But it does provide another level of"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2097.206,"endTime":2100.534,"body":"assurances, especially if you're using a"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2100.542,"endTime":2102.742,"body":"different AI platform to do that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2102.766,"endTime":2104.054,"body":"Which is, which is interesting."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2104.102,"endTime":2105.99,"body":"But that like you do raise a really good"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2104.102,"endTime":2105.99,"body":"point."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2106.03,"endTime":2109.238,"body":"Just being able to prove that what's running"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2106.03,"endTime":2109.238,"body":"on the server is what you expect doesn't prove"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2109.254,"endTime":2110.678,"body":"that what's running on the server is good."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2110.734,"endTime":2114.002,"body":"You could just have provably bad software on a"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2114.026,"endTime":2118.114,"body":"server and know that you're running bad"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2114.026,"endTime":2118.114,"body":"software and use it and have issues as a"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2118.122,"endTime":2118.338,"body":"result."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2118.394,"endTime":2123.602,"body":"So it is, it is yet another reminder that Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2118.394,"endTime":2123.602,"body":"Source is absolutely vital."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2123.746,"endTime":2128.098,"body":"And hopefully there will be lots of other"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2123.746,"endTime":2128.098,"body":"people building around Open Secret that have"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2128.154,"endTime":2133.362,"body":"more and more vested interest in making sure"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2128.154,"endTime":2133.362,"body":"that Open Secret itself is well built, that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2133.386,"endTime":2137.19,"body":"you're not doing anything malicious or the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2133.386,"endTime":2137.19,"body":"more likely thing that there's no accidental"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2137.77,"endTime":2140.846,"body":"security vulnerability or something that that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2137.77,"endTime":2140.846,"body":"gets shipped."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2140.878,"endTime":2144.126,"body":"And that's one of the really beautiful things"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2140.878,"endTime":2144.126,"body":"is as Open Secret grows in usage, as there's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2144.158,"endTime":2148.558,"body":"more devs, as maybe other people try to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2144.158,"endTime":2148.558,"body":"implement their own version of OpenSecret"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2148.654,"endTime":2150.29,"body":"because the code is open source,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2151.19,"endTime":2152.558,"body":"the security gets better."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2152.694,"endTime":2154.494,"body":"Instead of security through obscurity, it's"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2154.542,"endTime":2156.174,"body":"security through more and more eyes on the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2154.542,"endTime":2156.174,"body":"code."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2156.222,"endTime":2161.406,"body":"So it is definitely a, a cool piece of this"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2156.222,"endTime":2161.406,"body":"that is, is good to see and just another,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2161.478,"endTime":2163.822,"body":"another win for, for open source generally."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2163.966,"endTime":2169.176,"body":"Yeah. And we, we looked at Apple"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2163.966,"endTime":2169.176,"body":"and their whole private Apple intelligence"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2169.208,"endTime":2173.064,"body":"stuff that they're doing with their private"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2169.208,"endTime":2173.064,"body":"cloud compute and it's really awesome what"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2173.072,"endTime":2173.496,"body":"they're doing."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2173.568,"endTime":2176.328,"body":"But in the end you're still trusting the third"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2176.384,"endTime":2179.816,"body":"party auditors that they have hired to look at"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2176.384,"endTime":2179.816,"body":"their code because they're not open sourcing"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2179.848,"endTime":2180.376,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2180.528,"endTime":2183.432,"body":"So they're using secure enclaves, they're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2180.528,"endTime":2183.432,"body":"using all the confidential computing."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2183.496,"endTime":2186.856,"body":"But you have to trust the people that they're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2183.496,"endTime":2186.856,"body":"working with."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2187.008,"endTime":2193.0,"body":"And Apple could put a backdoor in there and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2187.008,"endTime":2193.0,"body":"then they're paying these people and these"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2193.04,"endTime":2196.232,"body":"people might bend their credibility to say, oh"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2193.04,"endTime":2196.232,"body":"yeah, there's no backdoor here."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2196.256,"endTime":2197.22,"body":"We didn't see it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2197.94,"endTime":2200.268,"body":"Whereas open source, like you can't hide from"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2197.94,"endTime":2200.268,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2200.324,"endTime":2201.58,"body":"It's out there, it's in the open."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2201.7,"endTime":2205.212,"body":"And I think truly that is the answer to have"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2205.236,"endTime":2207.74,"body":"the highest level of security and privacy."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2207.9,"endTime":2209.932,"body":"Yep. Yeah, it absolutely is open"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2207.9,"endTime":2209.932,"body":"source."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2209.996,"endTime":2211.532,"body":"Open source is how we win there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2211.636,"endTime":2212.48,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2212.82,"endTime":2214.14,"body":"So more on Open Secret."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2214.26,"endTime":2216.028,"body":"I'm really curious and I know I didn't send"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2216.044,"endTime":2218.54,"body":"you this question in advance, so I'll"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2216.044,"endTime":2218.54,"body":"blindside you with it."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2218.58,"endTime":2224.146,"body":"But in the crypto space, like obviously I work"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2218.58,"endTime":2224.146,"body":"at Cake Wallet, um, I've been in the Bitcoin"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2224.178,"endTime":2226.354,"body":"space for a while in the cryptocurrency scene."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2226.482,"endTime":2227.25,"body":"You have as well."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2227.29,"endTime":2228.978,"body":"Y'all, y'all ran Mutiny Wallet."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2229.074,"endTime":2230.43,"body":"What are kind of the,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2230.97,"endTime":2232.434,"body":"maybe a pie in the sky reality."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2232.482,"endTime":2234.37,"body":"What's kind of an ideal way that you could see"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2234.41,"endTime":2239.49,"body":"a wallet developer using Open Secret to help"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2234.41,"endTime":2239.49,"body":"improve the user experience?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2239.61,"endTime":2242.354,"body":"Maybe that's simplifying backup of private"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2239.61,"endTime":2242.354,"body":"keys."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2242.402,"endTime":2246.482,"body":"What's kind of the, the ideal that you see or"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2242.402,"endTime":2246.482,"body":"something you'd love to see a wallet developer"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2246.546,"endTime":2248.456,"body":"build around OpenSecret?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2248.618,"endTime":2250.332,"body":"Okay, that's a good question."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2250.516,"endTime":2251.996,"body":"The two big unlocks."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2252.108,"endTime":2258.092,"body":"One is the user experience of private key"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2252.108,"endTime":2258.092,"body":"management and not having to present the user"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2258.156,"endTime":2259.66,"body":"during this onboarding experience."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2259.78,"endTime":2261.9,"body":"You know, here's a big complicated private key"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2262.02,"endTime":2266.732,"body":"because if you think about it, we've, we've"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2262.02,"endTime":2266.732,"body":"tried hundreds of different wallets, right?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2266.756,"endTime":2269.532,"body":"If you've been in the space long enough,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2266.756,"endTime":2269.532,"body":"you're always looking at new ones that come"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2269.556,"endTime":2270.172,"body":"along."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2270.356,"endTime":2272.844,"body":"And the very first step in the process, or"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2272.852,"endTime":2276.97,"body":"maybe step number three or something is write"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2272.852,"endTime":2276.97,"body":"down this key, keep it safe."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2277.05,"endTime":2279.002,"body":"Big, you know, big warning on the screen."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2279.066,"endTime":2280.57,"body":"You will lose your funds if you don't do this."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2280.61,"endTime":2283.434,"body":"And you're like, I, I just want to try this"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2280.61,"endTime":2283.434,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2283.522,"endTime":2288.01,"body":"You know, I don't want to like, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2283.522,"endTime":2288.01,"body":"to like enter into a marriage with this app"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2288.05,"endTime":2292.682,"body":"and like now have to store this thing in a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2288.05,"endTime":2292.682,"body":"safe somewhere or go get a safe deposit box at"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2292.706,"endTime":2293.018,"body":"the bank."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2293.074,"endTime":2294.99,"body":"Like just want to see if it's useful."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2295.97,"endTime":2299.514,"body":"So with something like Open Secret, you can"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2295.97,"endTime":2299.514,"body":"remove that and you can just give them a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2299.522,"endTime":2300.728,"body":"normal login experience."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2300.874,"endTime":2302.988,"body":"And then later on down the line when they've"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2303.004,"endTime":2306.732,"body":"been using it for a little while, you can say,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2303.004,"endTime":2306.732,"body":"hey, we noticed that you've put like a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2306.756,"endTime":2309.692,"body":"significant amount of money in here or you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2306.756,"endTime":2309.692,"body":"starting to add money in here."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2309.716,"endTime":2311.676,"body":"You feel like you've got a hang of it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2311.828,"endTime":2313.468,"body":"We might recommend you back up your private"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2313.524,"endTime":2313.884,"body":"key."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2313.972,"endTime":2314.54,"body":"Here it is."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2314.58,"endTime":2315.02,"body":"By the way."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2315.06,"endTime":2316.2,"body":"You can back it up."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2316.98,"endTime":2321.468,"body":"Apps can actually choose the security model"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2316.98,"endTime":2321.468,"body":"they want to do around private keys and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2321.524,"endTime":2322.636,"body":"showing to the user."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2322.748,"endTime":2324.572,"body":"But I think you can create a healthier"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2324.636,"endTime":2326.012,"body":"relationship with that user."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2326.156,"endTime":2330.14,"body":"And then the second big unlock is encrypted"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2326.156,"endTime":2330.14,"body":"sync that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2330.18,"endTime":2335.132,"body":"Having that private key is like, is a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2330.18,"endTime":2335.132,"body":"superpower where you now have the ability to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2335.316,"endTime":2338.156,"body":"synchronize their data on, from your cloud."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2338.188,"endTime":2341.98,"body":"You can host it on your cloud and not have the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2338.188,"endTime":2341.98,"body":"liability of their personal information, not"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2342.02,"endTime":2345.516,"body":"have the ability to steal their coins,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2342.02,"endTime":2345.516,"body":"anything like that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2345.668,"endTime":2348.54,"body":"And so now you can actually synchronize it to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2345.668,"endTime":2348.54,"body":"other devices."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2348.62,"endTime":2352.172,"body":"And this is a flaw that Venice back on the AI"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2348.62,"endTime":2352.172,"body":"thing really quick."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2352.196,"endTime":2357.302,"body":"This is a flaw that Venice has and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2352.196,"endTime":2357.302,"body":"other really privacy focused things have and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2357.326,"endTime":2359.91,"body":"that is they don't want to have your data on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2357.326,"endTime":2359.91,"body":"the back end."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2359.95,"endTime":2363.11,"body":"So they store it locally in your browser or"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2359.95,"endTime":2363.11,"body":"locally in your app."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2363.23,"endTime":2367.462,"body":"And then when you move to another device, you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2363.23,"endTime":2367.462,"body":"don't have the information there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2367.646,"endTime":2372.086,"body":"Even if you log in with their account that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2367.646,"endTime":2372.086,"body":"they created for you, they don't, they aren't"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2372.118,"endTime":2374.502,"body":"able to synchronize the data because they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2372.118,"endTime":2374.502,"body":"don't want to touch it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2374.606,"endTime":2379.622,"body":"And honestly that's to me, that's a tell that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2374.606,"endTime":2379.622,"body":"Venice isn't truly private because they're not"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2379.646,"endTime":2381.49,"body":"willing to synchronize your data for you."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2382.33,"endTime":2388.69,"body":"So the way to do that then is you have to,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2382.33,"endTime":2388.69,"body":"like, show a QR code on the primary device and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2388.73,"endTime":2392.274,"body":"then scan that on the secondary device or do"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2388.73,"endTime":2392.274,"body":"some kind of, like, private key management."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2392.362,"endTime":2394.77,"body":"That just becomes a difficult thing for a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2392.362,"endTime":2394.77,"body":"user."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2394.93,"endTime":2398.77,"body":"So with Open Secret, what you could do is,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2394.93,"endTime":2398.77,"body":"because we're managing the private key using"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2398.81,"endTime":2402.946,"body":"confidential computing, you simply just log in"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2398.81,"endTime":2402.946,"body":"on the second device and boom, all your data's"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2402.978,"endTime":2403.458,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2403.594,"endTime":2406.77,"body":"And you didn't have to do any kind of dance"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2403.594,"endTime":2406.77,"body":"between the devices."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2406.85,"endTime":2410.452,"body":"You just use the login experience that you're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2406.85,"endTime":2410.452,"body":"familiar with, that you've, you know, done for"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2410.476,"endTime":2411.444,"body":"years and years."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2411.612,"endTime":2414.04,"body":"So I see those two being huge unlocks,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2414.38,"endTime":2416.196,"body":"and then I've got a third one."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2416.268,"endTime":2417.988,"body":"But if you have any, like, ideas or thoughts"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2418.004,"endTime":2421.54,"body":"or questions on those, we can, we can go down"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2418.004,"endTime":2421.54,"body":"those rabbit holes."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2421.7,"endTime":2424.772,"body":"I was, I was just going to say we"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2421.7,"endTime":2424.772,"body":"definitely need to, to chat offline about it"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2424.796,"endTime":2426.212,"body":"because that's, I mean, that's one of."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2426.316,"endTime":2427.972,"body":"I would say that's the most pressing issue in"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2427.996,"endTime":2428.708,"body":"every crypto wallet."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2428.724,"endTime":2432.5,"body":"And it's something that we've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2428.724,"endTime":2432.5,"body":"about how we can better solve at Cake, like"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2432.54,"endTime":2435.7,"body":"Foundation, I think, has a really novel"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2432.54,"endTime":2435.7,"body":"approach that they've done in their Envoy app."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2435.74,"endTime":2438.3,"body":"But, yeah, we'll definitely, we'll definitely"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2435.74,"endTime":2438.3,"body":"need to talk more."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2438.34,"endTime":2443.612,"body":"I think that that idea of greatly simplifying"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2438.34,"endTime":2443.612,"body":"the initial user experience is just so"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2443.636,"endTime":2448.3,"body":"absolutely vital without stripping away the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2443.636,"endTime":2448.3,"body":"full manual backup seed words, all that fun"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2448.34,"endTime":2449.676,"body":"stuff for the more advanced users."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2449.708,"endTime":2452.172,"body":"So we'll definitely talk more, but I"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2449.708,"endTime":2452.172,"body":"definitely want to hear the third one."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2452.276,"endTime":2453.48,"body":"Yeah, yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2454.58,"endTime":2455.484,"body":"Along those lines."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2455.532,"endTime":2455.996,"body":"Yeah, let's."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2456.028,"endTime":2456.94,"body":"Let's chat offline."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2457.02,"endTime":2457.96,"body":"Happy to."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2459.22,"endTime":2461.436,"body":"I don't want people to walk away from this"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2459.22,"endTime":2461.436,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2461.468,"endTime":2463.08,"body":"Like, if they hit stop right now."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2463.89,"endTime":2469.61,"body":"What I want them to walk away from is you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2463.89,"endTime":2469.61,"body":"don't have to just blindly turn over your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2469.65,"endTime":2472.15,"body":"private key management to something like Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2469.65,"endTime":2472.15,"body":"Secret."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2472.53,"endTime":2477.37,"body":"And you don't have to put your entire life"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2472.53,"endTime":2477.37,"body":"savings in an app that is built on Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2477.41,"endTime":2477.898,"body":"Secret."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2478.034,"endTime":2480.522,"body":"Again, you have to look at the risk profile"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2480.586,"endTime":2481.578,"body":"and the threat model."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2481.674,"endTime":2486.714,"body":"And so we actually want to build a platform"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2481.674,"endTime":2486.714,"body":"where apps can choose how complex it needs to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2486.722,"endTime":2487.226,"body":"be."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2487.378,"endTime":2489.69,"body":"So let's say that you have Cake Wallet and you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2489.73,"endTime":2491.52,"body":"just want to use it for spending cash."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2491.65,"endTime":2495.748,"body":"Well, you're fine just like doing a login with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2491.65,"endTime":2495.748,"body":"email or even login with Google or something,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2495.884,"endTime":2500.612,"body":"have the private key generated for you and you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2495.884,"endTime":2500.612,"body":"stick like $50 in there a month and you use"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2500.636,"endTime":2502.58,"body":"that to, like, buy your coffee or something."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2502.7,"endTime":2503.524,"body":"That's fine."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2503.652,"endTime":2505.732,"body":"If someone were to hack into your Google and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2505.756,"endTime":2508.4,"body":"get access to Your cake wallet and get your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2505.756,"endTime":2508.4,"body":"$50,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2508.78,"endTime":2509.716,"body":"it would be a bummer."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2509.748,"endTime":2511.604,"body":"But that's not the end of the world."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2511.772,"endTime":2516.084,"body":"If you were to do something like Casa or"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2511.772,"endTime":2516.084,"body":"Unchained or something where you're going to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2516.092,"endTime":2522.552,"body":"host maybe your keys that have access to your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2516.092,"endTime":2522.552,"body":"generational wealth, then on OpenSecret, you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2522.576,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"actually, you could actually build like a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2522.576,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"multi tier,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2524.84,"endTime":2527.08,"body":"multifaceted authentication."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2527.24,"endTime":2529.256,"body":"So multifactor I guess, would be the word."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2529.288,"endTime":2533.544,"body":"But you could have it do like, you know, an"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2529.288,"endTime":2533.544,"body":"email password as one of them."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2533.632,"endTime":2536.5,"body":"But then you could also, you know, bring,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2536.96,"endTime":2539.832,"body":"bring some other form of authentication into"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2536.96,"endTime":2539.832,"body":"the mix."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2539.896,"endTime":2544.482,"body":"Maybe your app requires like three different"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2539.896,"endTime":2544.482,"body":"forms of authentication and the keys are all"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2544.506,"endTime":2546.018,"body":"separated and sharded up."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2546.154,"endTime":2548.85,"body":"And then maybe that is only one piece of like"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2548.89,"endTime":2551.11,"body":"a multi key wallet,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2551.77,"endTime":2556.194,"body":"multisig wallet that your key is stored and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2551.77,"endTime":2556.194,"body":"brought from a hardware wallet or something."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2556.282,"endTime":2561.122,"body":"So there are different ways to make an app"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2556.282,"endTime":2561.122,"body":"that is more secure if it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2561.146,"endTime":2564.43,"body":"handling much more sensitive and valuable"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2561.146,"endTime":2564.43,"body":"data."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2566.17,"endTime":2572.29,"body":"So I just want people to understand, like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2566.17,"endTime":2572.29,"body":"not asking people to just blindly trust some"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2572.33,"endTime":2575.258,"body":"apps with all of their life savings."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2575.434,"endTime":2576.954,"body":"Make sure that you understand the risks that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2576.962,"endTime":2577.99,"body":"you're taking on."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2578.85,"endTime":2582.746,"body":"So, sorry, do you have anything there?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2578.85,"endTime":2582.746,"body":"Or I can go into the third option here."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2582.818,"endTime":2583.77,"body":"No, go and jump into it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2583.81,"endTime":2587.114,"body":"Okay. Yeah. So the, the third one"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2583.81,"endTime":2587.114,"body":"really is AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2587.242,"endTime":2588.23,"body":"And I,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2589.97,"endTime":2594.842,"body":"I know that it's a big buzzword and so some"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2589.97,"endTime":2594.842,"body":"people get turned off by it, but there's a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2594.866,"endTime":2599.962,"body":"cool power here that once you have the private"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2594.866,"endTime":2599.962,"body":"key and then you have their data encrypted on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2599.986,"endTime":2600.67,"body":"the cloud."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2601.06,"endTime":2601.8,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2602.18,"endTime":2607.516,"body":"apps also want to allow users to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2602.18,"endTime":2607.516,"body":"interact with AI and leverage that power."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2607.668,"endTime":2612.812,"body":"But the struggle is, is they just go, go to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2607.668,"endTime":2612.812,"body":"ChatGPT and they grab an API token and they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2612.836,"endTime":2613.724,"body":"stick it in their app."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2613.812,"endTime":2617.852,"body":"And then suddenly you're taking all this"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2613.812,"endTime":2617.852,"body":"private information and you're just sharing it"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2617.876,"endTime":2619.18,"body":"out with ChatGPT again."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2619.3,"endTime":2620.716,"body":"So it kind of breaks the paradigm."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2620.748,"endTime":2623.34,"body":"At that point, what we really need is private"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2620.748,"endTime":2623.34,"body":"AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2623.42,"endTime":2626.114,"body":"And this is where Maple no longer is a proof"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2623.42,"endTime":2626.114,"body":"of concept."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2626.212,"endTime":2630.854,"body":"It actually becomes like a third pillar of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2626.212,"endTime":2630.854,"body":"open secret that becomes this awesome"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2630.902,"endTime":2632.678,"body":"superpower that they can use."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2632.814,"endTime":2637.718,"body":"And that is, imagine that you were building a,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2632.814,"endTime":2637.718,"body":"like a meal tracking app and you're logging"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2637.734,"endTime":2639.574,"body":"all of your food that you eat every day."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2639.742,"endTime":2642.63,"body":"And then you want to have AI to help make"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2642.67,"endTime":2645.91,"body":"suggestions of like, here's, here's what your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2642.67,"endTime":2645.91,"body":"next day should look like."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2645.95,"endTime":2649.942,"body":"Or, you know, you're trying to track these"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2645.95,"endTime":2649.942,"body":"macros and you're building toward this goal."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2650.086,"endTime":2654.61,"body":"Let me build up an entire nutrition plan for"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2650.086,"endTime":2654.61,"body":"you and maybe a workout plan for you."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2655.22,"endTime":2658.732,"body":"And some people might say, I'm okay with"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2655.22,"endTime":2658.732,"body":"ChatGPT doing that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2658.756,"endTime":2662.54,"body":"But if we're trying to be trust minimized,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2658.756,"endTime":2662.54,"body":"we're trying to be more private in our life,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2662.66,"endTime":2667.052,"body":"then we want to keep that all, you know, safe"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2662.66,"endTime":2667.052,"body":"and secure within our app that we're using"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2667.076,"endTime":2668.204,"body":"that's built on Open Secret."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2668.292,"endTime":2671.276,"body":"I went through the links to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2668.292,"endTime":2671.276,"body":"it's all private."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2671.428,"endTime":2673.02,"body":"I want to bring AI into that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2673.06,"endTime":2676.284,"body":"Well, we can, we can bring AI in a private way"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2676.372,"endTime":2682.41,"body":"that can interact on that data and you can"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2676.372,"endTime":2682.41,"body":"verify end to end that the GPU as well is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2683.19,"endTime":2686.894,"body":"running secure enclaves and is running the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2683.19,"endTime":2686.894,"body":"code that we say it's running."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2687.022,"endTime":2691.662,"body":"So we feel like that is going to unlock a new"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2687.022,"endTime":2691.662,"body":"level of functionality within apps that we"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2691.686,"endTime":2697.23,"body":"haven't even seen or considered that privacy"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2691.686,"endTime":2697.23,"body":"apps can now have AI in them as well without"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2697.27,"endTime":2699.614,"body":"giving up on that privacy that they have."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2699.782,"endTime":2703.534,"body":"Yeah, it's almost like the best"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2699.782,"endTime":2703.534,"body":"possible non local AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2703.582,"endTime":2708.03,"body":"Like obviously the ideal for privacy would be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2703.582,"endTime":2708.03,"body":"that you run these models locally, but"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2708.07,"endTime":2709.91,"body":"obviously we're not there yet on."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2710.07,"endTime":2712.294,"body":"I mean it is possible to run a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2712.382,"endTime":2716.374,"body":"smaller models, the distilled models on a high"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2712.382,"endTime":2716.374,"body":"end phone,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2716.422,"endTime":2720.422,"body":"but we're not there yet to having the full"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2716.422,"endTime":2720.422,"body":"power that you would need to really build an"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2720.446,"endTime":2721.926,"body":"experience like this around it."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2721.998,"endTime":2723.782,"body":"So something like Open Secret for that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2723.806,"endTime":2728.982,"body":"And Maple is really fascinating one of being"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2723.806,"endTime":2728.982,"body":"able to do AI and not just give all of your"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2729.006,"endTime":2733.286,"body":"info to a company that's definitely going to"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2729.006,"endTime":2733.286,"body":"sell it or train their AI on top of it."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2733.358,"endTime":2734.902,"body":"So yeah, it's a fascinating one."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2734.926,"endTime":2736.054,"body":"I hadn't really thought through that one at"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2736.062,"endTime":2736.61,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2738.0,"endTime":2740.216,"body":"And that's something, that's"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2738.0,"endTime":2740.216,"body":"something we want to offer."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2740.288,"endTime":2743.192,"body":"You asked about Maple and like what our future"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2740.288,"endTime":2743.192,"body":"roadmap is."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2743.376,"endTime":2745.352,"body":"That's something we want to offer to our"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2743.376,"endTime":2745.352,"body":"users."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2745.416,"endTime":2750.2,"body":"I don't know if you have seen the Project"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2745.416,"endTime":2750.2,"body":"Goose that Jack Dorsey mentioned a while ago,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2750.24,"endTime":2750.44,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2750.48,"endTime":2751.176,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2751.368,"endTime":2754.28,"body":"So for people listening, if they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2751.368,"endTime":2754.28,"body":"haven't looked at Goose, Goose is really cool."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2754.36,"endTime":2758.424,"body":"It's this concept that uses mcp."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2758.472,"endTime":2759.54,"body":"Is that what it is?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2759.92,"endTime":2762.2,"body":"When I get on these things, the terms fly out"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2759.92,"endTime":2762.2,"body":"of my head."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2762.24,"endTime":2767.138,"body":"But it's a standard that Anthropic has"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2762.24,"endTime":2767.138,"body":"established for AIs to talk to each other"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2767.194,"endTime":2767.73,"body":"effectively."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2767.81,"endTime":2770.562,"body":"So Goose is using that standard and it is kind"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2770.586,"endTime":2774.882,"body":"of this, this tool now that can like pull from"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2770.586,"endTime":2774.882,"body":"all of the AI tools that are local on your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2774.906,"endTime":2777.362,"body":"device and will allow you to chain them"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2774.906,"endTime":2777.362,"body":"together."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2777.546,"endTime":2781.714,"body":"So we were thinking, well, it would be really"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2777.546,"endTime":2781.714,"body":"cool if Goose had access to private AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2781.842,"endTime":2786.402,"body":"So what we would love to offer is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2781.842,"endTime":2786.402,"body":"is some kind of Maple app that could run on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2786.426,"endTime":2791.202,"body":"your laptop that rather than having to, like"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2786.426,"endTime":2791.202,"body":"you were just pointing out, like,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2791.306,"endTime":2795.666,"body":"download your own models, run them locally,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2791.306,"endTime":2795.666,"body":"figure out which one's the best one, maybe"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2795.698,"endTime":2797.058,"body":"your machine is underpowered."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2797.154,"endTime":2798.274,"body":"You know, spoiler alert."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2798.322,"endTime":2801.922,"body":"All of our machines are underpowered when"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2798.322,"endTime":2801.922,"body":"you're going against these H1 hundreds that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2801.946,"endTime":2803.058,"body":"are running in the cloud."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2803.234,"endTime":2807.41,"body":"So you want to have like the power of the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2803.234,"endTime":2807.41,"body":"cloud, but you don't want to spend and manage"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2807.45,"endTime":2808.29,"body":"that yourselves."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2808.45,"endTime":2811.202,"body":"Well, if you could run some kind of Maple AI"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2811.266,"endTime":2816.514,"body":"proxy on your laptop, some, some software"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2811.266,"endTime":2816.514,"body":"that's running there locally, and then you can"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2816.522,"endTime":2820.106,"body":"plug it in the Goose or some of these other"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2816.522,"endTime":2820.106,"body":"tools like Cursor or other."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2820.178,"endTime":2824.73,"body":"Other great tools that already exist, suddenly"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2820.178,"endTime":2824.73,"body":"you can unlock these great interfaces."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2824.89,"endTime":2827.242,"body":"But the power of private AI."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2827.386,"endTime":2829.354,"body":"So we get really excited about, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2829.362,"endTime":2832.15,"body":"option of offering that to our users hopefully"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2829.362,"endTime":2832.15,"body":"in the future."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2832.45,"endTime":2836.074,"body":"Yeah, I know that that's something"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2832.45,"endTime":2836.074,"body":"that, like, I was actually trying out Cursor"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2836.122,"endTime":2837.818,"body":"with Venice the other day."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2837.954,"endTime":2839.994,"body":"Cause they just added the ability to use an"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2840.082,"endTime":2840.73,"body":"API key."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2840.77,"endTime":2841.578,"body":"That's you."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2841.634,"endTime":2846.042,"body":"You lie and say that it's ChatGPT essentially,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2841.634,"endTime":2846.042,"body":"but it works within Cursor."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2846.186,"endTime":2849.336,"body":"I think that thing would, that would be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2846.186,"endTime":2849.336,"body":"fantastic to see with Maple."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2849.368,"endTime":2854.12,"body":"Again, just to make sure that the users who"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2849.368,"endTime":2854.12,"body":"care about privacy, which I would argue is"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2854.16,"endTime":2857.832,"body":"everyone and are willing to pay a little bit"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2854.16,"endTime":2857.832,"body":"to have an AI that actually respects that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2857.856,"endTime":2858.52,"body":"privacy,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2858.68,"endTime":2860.94,"body":"are able to use that everywhere, will be"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2858.68,"endTime":2860.94,"body":"pretty awesome."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2861.52,"endTime":2862.3,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2862.8,"endTime":2867.848,"body":"well, last real question I have for you is,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2862.8,"endTime":2867.848,"body":"and maybe we've covered this, so if we have,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2867.984,"endTime":2873.816,"body":"we can just skip it, but is there any other,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2867.984,"endTime":2873.816,"body":"like, major target use case for open Secret,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2873.888,"endTime":2879.084,"body":"generally outside of the crypto space that"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2873.888,"endTime":2879.084,"body":"you're really excited for, or maybe just a"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2879.092,"endTime":2880.364,"body":"thing that you'd love to see built on it,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":2880.372,"endTime":2882.12,"body":"even if maybe it's not possible today?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2882.58,"endTime":2884.444,"body":"Yeah, really, everything."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2884.532,"endTime":2885.612,"body":"The sky's the limit."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2885.676,"endTime":2887.74,"body":"I come from a mobile app background."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2887.82,"endTime":2890.876,"body":"I've worked in online backup, like I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2890.908,"endTime":2891.948,"body":"at the very beginning."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2892.124,"endTime":2894.716,"body":"I've also worked in education tech, both at"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2894.788,"endTime":2897.852,"body":"large education tech companies as well as a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2894.788,"endTime":2897.852,"body":"small ones."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2897.996,"endTime":2904.302,"body":"And so I think that there, there are just so"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2897.996,"endTime":2904.302,"body":"many places where we are sacrificing our"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2904.326,"endTime":2905.774,"body":"privacy unnecessarily."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2905.902,"endTime":2908.03,"body":"I like to talk about how our phones are just"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2908.07,"endTime":2912.526,"body":"giant privacy leaks that are just like"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2908.07,"endTime":2912.526,"body":"flowing, you know, endlessly."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2912.638,"endTime":2915.134,"body":"And it would be great to start plugging up"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2912.638,"endTime":2915.134,"body":"some of those holes."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2915.262,"endTime":2919.79,"body":"And I think like the, the most Immediate wins"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2915.262,"endTime":2919.79,"body":"that, that I think a normal user would see are"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2919.83,"endTime":2921.726,"body":"things that are location based."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2921.878,"endTime":2926.21,"body":"So if you are tracking your runs that you do"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2921.878,"endTime":2926.21,"body":"on a daily basis or your bike rides,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2926.63,"endTime":2930.874,"body":"what you're doing is you're building this,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2926.63,"endTime":2930.874,"body":"this location profile of yourself."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2931.002,"endTime":2933.45,"body":"But you don't know the developers that are"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2931.002,"endTime":2933.45,"body":"actually running that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2933.49,"endTime":2938.51,"body":"Like if you're using Strava or you know, Matt"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2933.49,"endTime":2938.51,"body":"My Ride or some of these other ones,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2938.93,"endTime":2941.13,"body":"you don't know who they've hired over there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2941.17,"endTime":2942.922,"body":"And they can jump in the database at any time"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2942.946,"endTime":2943.626,"body":"that they want to."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2943.698,"endTime":2945.642,"body":"Now they're probably not going to, but the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2945.666,"endTime":2946.57,"body":"threat is there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2946.69,"endTime":2949.91,"body":"And if you were a celebrity, like,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2950.45,"endTime":2953.05,"body":"absolutely, you'd want to have some kind of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2950.45,"endTime":2953.05,"body":"privacy around that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2953.09,"endTime":2956.998,"body":"I wouldn't be using an app where I'm going on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2953.09,"endTime":2956.998,"body":"a run around my neighborhood and, and some"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2957.054,"endTime":2960.934,"body":"third party developer can now suddenly know"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2957.054,"endTime":2960.934,"body":"where I live and what my daily routine is."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2961.102,"endTime":2964.47,"body":"So I think those kinds of apps could, could"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2961.102,"endTime":2964.47,"body":"greatly benefit from building on something"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2964.51,"endTime":2968.89,"body":"like Open Secret and then naturally like"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2964.51,"endTime":2968.89,"body":"health apps, meal tracking,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2969.39,"endTime":2971.59,"body":"you know, any kind of medical thing that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2969.39,"endTime":2971.59,"body":"you're doing."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2971.63,"endTime":2974.726,"body":"We are not HIPAA compliant or certified yet."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2974.798,"endTime":2976.39,"body":"That's something that'll become in our future."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2976.51,"endTime":2980.182,"body":"But there are lots of help things you can do"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2976.51,"endTime":2980.182,"body":"that don't require HIPAA compliance that you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2980.206,"endTime":2981.622,"body":"would still benefit from."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2981.806,"endTime":2985.462,"body":"And then I think you could just go down the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2981.806,"endTime":2985.462,"body":"list, you could just start swiping on your"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2985.486,"endTime":2988.642,"body":"phone and looking at all the different apps"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2985.486,"endTime":2988.642,"body":"you use and think, oh, that would be CO1 was"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2988.666,"endTime":2989.01,"body":"more private."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2989.05,"endTime":2990.626,"body":"That would be cool if that one's more private."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2990.778,"endTime":2993.282,"body":"And the reason they're not is because the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2993.306,"endTime":2995.618,"body":"tools just aren't that easy for them to work"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2993.306,"endTime":2995.618,"body":"with."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2995.754,"endTime":2999.522,"body":"And so they've just picked the developer"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2995.754,"endTime":2999.522,"body":"backends that are out there and they're using"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2999.546,"endTime":2999.73,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2999.77,"endTime":3002.37,"body":"And because everybody else is using them, they"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":2999.77,"endTime":3002.37,"body":"feel safe doing it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3002.49,"endTime":3006.354,"body":"But obviously we aren't safe because every"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3002.49,"endTime":3006.354,"body":"week you get a new headline of some kind of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3006.362,"endTime":3007.842,"body":"data breach that has happened."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3007.986,"endTime":3011.458,"body":"And so our data is just this liability."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3011.554,"endTime":3012.946,"body":"Our personal information is a liability."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3012.978,"endTime":3013.522,"body":"It's sitting there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3013.546,"endTime":3015.804,"body":"It's a liability for the developer and it's a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3015.812,"endTime":3018.636,"body":"liability for us as a user on the developer"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3015.812,"endTime":3018.636,"body":"side."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3018.708,"endTime":3025.212,"body":"You know, there's been industry reports out"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3018.708,"endTime":3025.212,"body":"there that in 2023 companies incurred on"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3025.236,"endTime":3030.62,"body":"average like a $5 million cost hit to them"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3025.236,"endTime":3030.62,"body":"when they had a data breach that occurred in"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3030.66,"endTime":3031.804,"body":"2024."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3031.972,"endTime":3034.22,"body":"The research that I've been doing, it looks"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3031.972,"endTime":3034.22,"body":"like that's gone up."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3034.26,"endTime":3036.54,"body":"It's now like $9 million or so."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3036.66,"endTime":3039.308,"body":"So if you're a UA, those are just US based"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3039.364,"endTime":3042.382,"body":"companies because the report and I think is a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3039.364,"endTime":3042.382,"body":"little bit easier to find."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3042.556,"endTime":3046.426,"body":"But if you're a developer like you are taking"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3042.556,"endTime":3046.426,"body":"on this liability that you might have to clean"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3046.458,"endTime":3047.898,"body":"up some kind of cost from that."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3047.954,"endTime":3049.93,"body":"And then obviously on the user side, having"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3049.97,"endTime":3055.722,"body":"your privacy spilled online, you are now, you"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3049.97,"endTime":3055.722,"body":"know, a target for identity theft and all"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3055.746,"endTime":3059.11,"body":"sorts of other problems that can cause"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3055.746,"endTime":3059.11,"body":"personal harm to you and your family."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3059.57,"endTime":3061.946,"body":"So you naturally don't want your data leaked"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3059.57,"endTime":3061.946,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3062.018,"endTime":3066.602,"body":"So really, I think it's a future world of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3062.018,"endTime":3066.602,"body":"let's get as many of these apps as we can"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3066.626,"endTime":3067.498,"body":"build in this way."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3067.554,"endTime":3072.36,"body":"And if another Open Secret pops up, if we have"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3067.554,"endTime":3072.36,"body":"multiple competitors, I think that's a big win"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3072.4,"endTime":3073.384,"body":"for all of us."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3073.552,"endTime":3076.664,"body":"Maybe I end up not being as successful as I"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3076.672,"endTime":3084.84,"body":"want to be because other companies are doing"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3076.672,"endTime":3084.84,"body":"it, but I kind of follow the same mantra that"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3084.88,"endTime":3087.288,"body":"Elon Musk was following early on in the years"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3084.88,"endTime":3087.288,"body":"of Tesla,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3087.304,"endTime":3092.1,"body":"where he said they open sourced a lot of their"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3087.304,"endTime":3092.1,"body":"patents because they just wanted the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3092.64,"endTime":3096.1,"body":"electrification of the automobile market."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3096.4,"endTime":3098.912,"body":"And you can, you can have your opinions of him"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3098.936,"endTime":3103.152,"body":"and your opinions of, of whether EVs are, are"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3098.936,"endTime":3103.152,"body":"good for the world or a Net positive or net"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3103.176,"endTime":3103.6,"body":"negative."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3103.68,"endTime":3105.22,"body":"But the concept is true."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3105.56,"endTime":3109.952,"body":"I want to, I want other people to be building"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3105.56,"endTime":3109.952,"body":"on Open Secret or building on something like"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3109.976,"endTime":3110.544,"body":"Open Secret."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3110.632,"endTime":3112.672,"body":"Let's just bring better privacy to all of the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3112.696,"endTime":3113.824,"body":"apps that we use."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3113.992,"endTime":3114.576,"body":"No kidding."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3114.608,"endTime":3116.512,"body":"The, the world would be such a better place if"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3116.616,"endTime":3119.328,"body":"all of these developers and companies didn't"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3116.616,"endTime":3119.328,"body":"have access to this data."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3119.384,"endTime":3121.28,"body":"And it greatly simplifies their jobs too."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3121.32,"endTime":3123.312,"body":"I mean, the less data they need to manage, the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3123.336,"endTime":3126.75,"body":"easier their lives are and the less risk they"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3123.336,"endTime":3126.75,"body":"have."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3126.79,"endTime":3131.71,"body":"So it's definitely a hopeful future and I'm"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3126.79,"endTime":3131.71,"body":"glad to hear that Open Secret is building out"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3131.75,"endTime":3137.166,"body":"the tools to make this easier for developers"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3131.75,"endTime":3137.166,"body":"and really excited to see what else launches"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3137.198,"endTime":3137.502,"body":"this year."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3137.526,"endTime":3141.742,"body":"It feels like 2025 is going to be a really,"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3137.526,"endTime":3141.742,"body":"really good year for privacy and for privacy"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3141.806,"endTime":3142.238,"body":"tech."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3142.334,"endTime":3144.062,"body":"It sounds like Open Secret is going to be a"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3144.086,"endTime":3144.718,"body":"key part of that."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3144.774,"endTime":3146.238,"body":"So thanks for chatting about it today."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3146.374,"endTime":3147.246,"body":"Yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3147.278,"endTime":3148.174,"body":"I hope so."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3148.342,"endTime":3148.862,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3148.926,"endTime":3150.51,"body":"Well, thank you so much for coming on."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3150.63,"endTime":3154.974,"body":"I think we covered pretty much everything I"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3150.63,"endTime":3154.974,"body":"have, but any last thoughts or things you want"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3154.982,"endTime":3156.246,"body":"to leave the audience with?"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3156.438,"endTime":3160.246,"body":"As far as what I would leave for"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3156.438,"endTime":3160.246,"body":"users or leave for people who are listening is"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3160.398,"endTime":3164.79,"body":"if you're a developer, like come chat with us"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3160.398,"endTime":3164.79,"body":"and let's look at how we can help you bring"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3164.83,"endTime":3166.086,"body":"better privacy into your app."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3166.158,"endTime":3168.966,"body":"You do not need to move your entire stack over"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3166.158,"endTime":3168.966,"body":"to Open Secret."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3169.038,"endTime":3174.406,"body":"There are, there are major ways that you can"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3169.038,"endTime":3174.406,"body":"just get a win by plugging parts of your stuff"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3174.438,"endTime":3175.03,"body":"into here."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3175.15,"endTime":3180.006,"body":"A great example is there's a bitcoin exchange"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3175.15,"endTime":3180.006,"body":"that we've been talking to that obviously"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3180.038,"endTime":3183.61,"body":"needs to have customer data because they're a"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3180.038,"endTime":3183.61,"body":"centralized exchange."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3184.18,"endTime":3187.004,"body":"I don't think they're just bitcoin, they're"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3184.18,"endTime":3187.004,"body":"cryptocurrency exchange."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3187.052,"endTime":3192.412,"body":"But what they do want to do is they have to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3187.052,"endTime":3192.412,"body":"hold on to these driver's licenses and"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3192.436,"endTime":3193.244,"body":"government IDs."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3193.292,"endTime":3194.7,"body":"And so they're looking at how can we use Open"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3194.74,"endTime":3198.7,"body":"Secret to better secure that information so"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3194.74,"endTime":3198.7,"body":"that we don't have to have this liability of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3198.74,"endTime":3202.252,"body":"some rogue employee that now just like dips"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3198.74,"endTime":3202.252,"body":"their hand in the cookie jar and grabs all"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3202.276,"endTime":3204.06,"body":"these government IDs."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3204.22,"endTime":3208.86,"body":"So we're looking at ways that we can help them"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3204.22,"endTime":3208.86,"body":"with their meet their obligations of long term"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3208.9,"endTime":3213.25,"body":"retention of documents but still protect"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3208.9,"endTime":3213.25,"body":"themselves from that liability."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3213.67,"endTime":3215.438,"body":"So if you're a developer, come talk to us."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3215.494,"endTime":3217.79,"body":"If you're a user, search out tools that are"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3217.83,"endTime":3222.542,"body":"more private search out tools and always be"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3217.83,"endTime":3222.542,"body":"scrutinizing the privacy policy and the"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3222.566,"endTime":3226.57,"body":"privacy model that your app that you're using"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3222.566,"endTime":3226.57,"body":"is built around."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3226.87,"endTime":3231.87,"body":"And if you don't think it's strong enough,"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3226.87,"endTime":3231.87,"body":"talk to the developer and we'd love for you to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3231.99,"endTime":3236.542,"body":"let them know that we exist and we will be"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3231.99,"endTime":3236.542,"body":"launching soon to the public for people to"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3236.566,"endTime":3237.696,"body":"come play around with it."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3237.838,"endTime":3242.12,"body":"And let's try and elevate the game of all of"},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3237.838,"endTime":3242.12,"body":"our tools together."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3242.66,"endTime":3243.164,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3243.212,"endTime":3244.204,"body":"Well, thank you so much, Mark."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3244.292,"endTime":3245.356,"body":"Have a great rest of your day."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3245.428,"endTime":3245.98,"body":"Okay, great."},{"speaker":"Speaker B","startTime":3246.02,"endTime":3246.64,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3254.98,"endTime":3258.204,"body":"Thanks for listening and I hope you"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3254.98,"endTime":3258.204,"body":"enjoyed this episode of Opt Out."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3258.292,"endTime":3261.052,"body":"If you did, please take a moment and subscribe"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3258.292,"endTime":3261.052,"body":"to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3261.116,"endTime":3265.24,"body":"Or if you already subscribed, share it with"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3261.116,"endTime":3265.24,"body":"one friend or family member this week."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3265.58,"endTime":3269.892,"body":"As always, you can check out the link to the"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3265.58,"endTime":3269.892,"body":"guest content and contact info, as well as"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3269.916,"endTime":3272.484,"body":"links to all of the tools we discussed in"},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3269.916,"endTime":3272.484,"body":"today's episode."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3272.612,"endTime":3273.972,"body":"Now get out there and Opt Out."},{"speaker":"Speaker A","startTime":3273.996,"endTime":3274.3,"body":"This week."}]}