Transportation Exchange presented by Rush Truck Centres of Canada

The Future of Transmissions with Eaton

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Dave Embury from Eaton joins us to discuss everything fleets need to know about Endurant transmissions and Eaton’s innovative e-mobility division. We explore the industry’s shift from manual to automated transmissions, highlighting benefits like improved safety, reduced drivetrain wear, and increased fuel efficiency. Looking ahead, we dive into Eaton’s e-mobility solutions for electric vehicles, where transmissions play a vital role in extending battery range.

Jason Cuddy:

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Transportation Exchange podcast presented by Rush Trucks of Canada. I'm your host, Jason Cuddy, and joining us again this time is Dave Embury from Eaton. Dave, welcome back.

Dave Embury:

Thank you. Thanks for giving me another invite. It's always a pleasure to participate in your cast here.

Jason Cuddy:

Yeah, it's been a while since we had you on so we wanted to bring you back. You know a lot of things happened in the last couple of years since you were on, so we figured we have you back on and walk us through everything that's happening over at Eaton. Maybe we'll start with the high level of what's happening transmission-wise and what are you seeing in the marketplace as far as the overall acceptability of manuals to automate and what is Eaton doing in that space?

Dave Embury:

All right. Well, the transition from manual to automated it's been going on for quite a while now. I mean likely 20 years since we really got into automated transmissions and of course at the time it was all for trying to attract new drivers to the industry. The driver recruitment was hard back then as well as it is today, I guess. But moving to an automated transmission enabled, opened it up to a greater workforce, I believe. So that's how the transition started. Now, as it has transitioned to automation, it's likely really grown in the last five, six years, of course, really grown in the last five, six years, of course.

Dave Embury:

And other features that companies benefit from going to an automated transmission, of course the driverless, driver fatigue and easier to recruit drivers. And of course the driver now can focus on the road ahead. So safety was a factor that came into that as well. And in addition, the fleet started to realize that you know what we have less wear and tear on the complete driveline. And then what also evolved out of that was the efficiency.

Dave Embury:

So an automated transmission allowed a fleet to bring up their overall fuel average and made the worst drivers better, and so overall it was better that way. So that was a benefit that, once you got into maybe some fuel savings, that was a really, really key benefit in helping fleets make that transition over. So if we look at maybe the highway market, it's like the 85% automated transmissions at this point. The other they could be a little bit higher in different areas but there's still some owner operators that may want a manual transmission for various reasons. But overall that market is highway market is pretty well, mostly automated and even the vocational is going that way. So that is definitely the move forward is automated and some of the key benefits of course is the efficiency.

Jason Cuddy:

Yeah, no, fair and it's. I mean, we've seen it. Obviously the market has changed. You know where we're used to. You know a lot of companies, especially more so, like you said, in the vocational side, have been, you know, manual, I think, and you know a lot of companies, especially more so, like you said, on the vocational side, have been, you know, manual, I think, and you know a lot of the old school guys like having that control. But as you get into the fleet, specifically recognizing the efficiency of an automated versus a manual, you know still, performance wise does the same as far as you know, pulling everything you need to do from a weight point of view, but it does it. You know the computers are just quicker and they're optimized or tuned to the engine or tuned to the whole overall vehicle performance. And so, yeah, to your point. You know efficiency is a key thing. With regards to, you know you guys have made some changes on the product line. What?

Dave Embury:

are the automated transmissions that are out there now for everyone to take advantage of. The family of automated transmissions has been moved over to the Endurant family. The traditional automated transmission was a manual that we had added components to automate. So now with that I mean it served the purpose. It's. You know, you had all the same gear ratios and it helped the transition from a driver that you know wanted a 13-speed or an 18-speed and basically automated the transmission that he was driving. So that helped with that transition over there and to help prove to drivers that you know we do have the same ability, they do have some control, they've got the same start ability and, of course, road speeds and that. So that was beneficial in that area. Now.

Dave Embury:

But as we advance, I mean, the transmission controller capacity was becoming very limited on that. So it was time to, you know, add more capacity. But at the same time it was like what we've done is we wanted to even improve efficiency further and reduce weights. So the new family is all aluminum cases. So what we've done there is it's a complete purpose-built automated transmission. It was not a manual convergent. So in doing so we were able to change gear ratios, the whole architecture of the transmission itself, with the gearing, so it is actually more efficient than our older transmissions, and with the aluminum casing, in that we help dissipate the heat better and oil coolers are only required once you get into the heavier weights of over 110.

Dave Embury:

So now it also allowed us to bring gear ratios and have all nice even steps, because the goal is to keep the engine operating where it's in the most efficient RPM and horsepower and torque rating to give the best performance. So all the steps on their 12 speed, it's like basically 12 and 18 speed. They're 20% steps, so it'll allow us to manage the engine and keep it in peak performance. So with that, of course, is where we achieve the better fuel economy and if in reality that's helped, keeps the emissions managed in those areas. So those are the two. That we have now is two families, 12 speeds and 18 speeds for Heavy Haul and a vocational model of that. So that is the family moving forward. Now, in saying that, when we talk about what's new, we have a vocational version of the 12-speed and also we have software configurations for natural gas. So if you're using X12 natural gas or an X15 natural gas coming out, we have shift parameters to accommodate and and uh match up with those, those models excellent.

Jason Cuddy:

Yeah, significant changes, especially tied into natural gas and vocational obviously is a huge one, you know, to play that mark because that is traditionally a lot of the manual world right. So to be able to give them that, that, that manual power, uh, you know, as far as from the shifting point of view, but automated is is huge in both, both categories, so that. So it's good to know that's here and coming. The one part you mentioned which I thought was interesting I think a lot of people don't maybe consider transmissions. Part of this equation is the impact that transmissions have on emissions, greenhouse gas reductions and with everything coming out in 27,. And obviously you guys are tied to an engine manufacturer, uh, within the industry. So maybe talk to us a little bit of like where does the transmission play a part in that? Because I think traditionally people wouldn't think it really has any impact.

Dave Embury:

To be honest with you, that's true there uh, you know there is no fuel line going with the transmission, but uh, what? Uh, what is taken into consideration here is the complete drivetrain behind the engine. We're talking about the tire size and rolling resistance and power loss through the transmission. You talk about gear axle ratios and all that combined. Basically, they have established that there can be a fuel savings there. I call it fuel savings, but the end result is, of course, the greenhouse gas reduction. With the transmission planning part of that, as I mentioned about the even steps, that's the first thing. That's key to keeping the engine operating there.

Dave Embury:

But if we take the next step further with an automated transmission, now you can add features like neutral coast, and neutral coast has been around for a while, but it was just an option for fuel economy. Now in today's world, it is mandatory that you have neutral coast on highway equipment. So with that I mean we're getting a small savings, but it is still a savings and it contributes to the overall greenhouse gas reduction. Now, moving forward, you know you may get into other features like start and stop or features like that. Moving forward, that might be another option, but uh, so right now the uh, the push to automation by oems is even further, because they get better greenhouse gas benefits. So that's where you've also seen. You know, like people, uh, that still want a manual, they may be penalized by a price increase to buy a manual transmission In certain applications. They can justify that added cost In some applications. The customer will decide it's time now to move over to automation and reap all the benefits that they can have from that.

Jason Cuddy:

Yeah, it's such a complete 180, right, I mean, probably 20 years ago it was an upcharge for an automated or an automatic transmission, and manual was the cost effective from a capital cost point of view initially, and now with everything the way it's gone, yeah, I have seen that, or at least heard it in the marketplace, where the manual now there is a premium to it. If you do not go with an automated, you know you're almost to your point, you're penalized, and a lot of it has to do with what you just said, obviously, but it's. It's interesting how much that has changed right in 15, 20 years.

Dave Embury:

Uh, within the marketplace yeah, well, and also in the uh, the uh resale market as well. Right, um, there's a lot of fleets that uh would only buy an automated transmission. Well, they can only buy an automated transmission. Well, they can only buy an automated transmission today because their driver pool has been so programmed for just automated transmissions and they never did drive a manual transmission. And now, of course, with the restricted driver's license, I mean drivers could be driving their whole career and never drive a manual transmission.

Jason Cuddy:

Yeah, it's wild. It's wild to see that change so much. That's a good point. So when you speak transmissions, we talk. You know emissions and everything coming down the pipe in the future. I guess one interesting part again people don't think about when you get into the EV world. You're used to a lot of. You know direct drive. You know you're not used to obviously going through a whole bunch of gears. It's a totally different.

Dave Embury:

You know powertrain on it, EVs need need transmissions and they need it for the same reasons that we need transmissions in vehicles today, and because the transmission, the function, is still the same it's got to have enough reduction to start the load and then get you up to road speed and maintain that. So when you have electric trucks and electric buses, they still got to go up hills and start the load. So what a transmission does? It's always been a torque multiplier and so by adding a transmission to an electric vehicle, which most people don't know because it's going to be an automated the uh, the driver of course doesn't know he has a, they have a transmission, but uh, with that.

Dave Embury:

So with the added reduction to get the load going and doing it by multiplying the torque through the transmission, what you're doing is helping take some of the load off the the batteries, of course, and because that'd be quite a draw on the batteries to get the vehicle going and of course then maintaining road speed. So if we use the transmission, it helps expand the range of the batteries and also I mean it could possibly allow you to go with a smaller electric motor. So a transmission is used to get the load going in most cases and it could be used going down the road as far as when you get into a hill make a shift down. So currently it's two-speed transmissions is what we see the most use, but we do offer a four-speed because for the heavier loads you get into the heavier applications and you get into the heavier, heavier applications and you need more torque multiplication. But it's all to help extend the range of the batteries and take the load off the electric motor.

Jason Cuddy:

That's why yeah, it's not something I would have thought of it to your point was obviously just to get to kind of help it get moving. You know just the nature of it, but not thinking of the implication of the battery savings. And obviously if you're letting the transmission do literally the heavy lifting to get everything moving, then yes, the electric powertrain doesn't need to work as hard and therefore can exchange. You know your range ideally, so it's a huge, huge input into the operation of that vehicle, ideally, so it's a huge, huge input into the operation of that vehicle. I guess one other thing we talk EVs and electric. Obviously you guys are, we know you deal with you pretty much every day on a transmission side. But you have other things you are working on within that world with regards to the 48 volt infrastructure and different solutions tied to assisting EVs and mainly helping OEMs, kind of you know, get to where they need to go with emission regulations.

Dave Embury:

Maybe, if you can share some of the things that you guys are working on or that you know will or at some point will be available to different OEMs to add on to their vehicles, and, as you just stated, yeah, you know us from transmissions, but Eaton has other divisions and we have our e-mobility division, which is very focused on electrical and electrical components, and Eaton as a whole has had a long history in power management of electricity, and we do all kinds of other components for the electric vehicles, other components for the electric vehicles. We don't have our own system, but what we do is we build and design systems and components that we sell to OEMs, make available to OEMs for their own systems. And as we move forward, I think when we talk about emissions you mentioned about 2027 is going to be another big reduction, and so what is the next step? How do we even help reduce our emissions more? And we've talked about some of the features we can do with a transmission. Well, what's next steps?

Dave Embury:

Maybe what we could do is help reduce some of the draw from the engine, like all the accessories that are on the front of the engine. Uh, you know the fan, water pump, power steering and all that. How could we help there? Uh, I think what? What we're looking at? You know a lot of a lot of odms. More so europe, europe's been quicker to adapt 48 volt, but the North American market is doing it as well.

Dave Embury:

So maybe what we do is we put a motor generator on the transmission, on the PTO opening, and use that to provide a source of power and then with some of our other components to manage it. We manage that power and basically what we're doing is reducing the load off the engine, move it somewhere else and there again we might be able to help reduce greenhouse gas from doing that. The other big area is with electric heaters for the emissions. Today, with the catalyst, the heaters, you need to have a high temperature fairly quick and the 48 volts can do that. So these are just options moving forward that we could use for our transmissions. I mean they could have the power source from the engine or anything else, but we offer components for that, whether it be converters, inverters, power distribution. So those are just some of the components that we offer OEMs for their electrical vehicles.

Jason Cuddy:

Good to know, I think to your point, we probably know you 99% of the time is transmission. So, knowing the other areas that you guys are involved with, I mean I'm sure we'll see a lot of it come to light as we are able to build vehicles. You'll see different options in different spots. And, yeah, that 48 volt technology I think you're starting to see trickle into the north american market a bit more for sure, and especially when that after treatment piece, that preheating piece, is, I think, where it starts to pop up kind of more regularly to start with, and then it'll, once the architecture is there, definitely you can see people tapping into it. So I agree with with you, as it as it, you know, becomes more popular, all these different items will will definitely pay play a key piece in helping reduce emissions and just making the truck a little bit more customizable and getting things to different spots. Even on the vehicle. You know just as far as where you need it to to be optimal in your operation. So it's interesting to hear about, for sure.

Jason Cuddy:

But yeah, I did want, like I said we, there's a lot to catch up on, so we did want to have you on I do thank you for coming on and getting us up to speed on. You know everything from you know the new product line with the endurance, but also your, your, your, your role in the EV world and the components that that make it, make it work. So I do thank you for for joining us again. You're more than welcome. Excellent, thank you, perfect. Well, hey, that concludes today's episode. To catch past episodes, please check transportationexchangepodcastca. And until next time, thanks for watching, thank you.