Kriska Transportation Group’s Experience with the S13 Integrated Powertrain

In this episode, we are joined by Tim Livingstone, Fleet Facilities and Fuel Manager at Kriska Transportation Group, to discuss their fleet’s experience with the International S13 Integrated Powertrain. Tim shares driver feedback on its quiet operation, smooth shifting, and reliable cold-weather performance, along with early fuel-economy improvements and increased DEF consumption. He explains how these factors influence total operating costs while highlighting key lessons learned around spec’ing decisions, uptime expectations, and adapting to new diagnostic and service processes. This conversation offers real-world insights for fleets evaluating new powertrain technology and long-term performance. Tune in now.

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Why S-13

Jason Cuddy 0:16

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Transportation Exchange Podcast presented by Rush Truck Centres Canada. I'm your host, Jason Cuddy, and today we welcome Tim Livingstone, who is the Fleet Facilities and Fuel Manager at KTG. Tim, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. So we wanted to have you on today to talk some real-world experience with regards to the S-13 integrated powertrain. It's been out for a bit. You guys have been one of the earlier adopters of having it into your fleet. And we've had some good conversations with the engineering team and from the international side, but I thought it'd be great to get some real-world tips and tricks that you guys have learned, some lessons along the way. And just I guess starting off with the overall feedback of how the S-13 integrated powertrain has been within the fleet.

First Impressions And Early Fixes

Tim Livingstone 0:54

Yeah, for sure. So we have a bunch of internationals within the fleet now. So we were excited to one try the new S-13 with all the claims that it was able to make. First impressions fantastic. Brand new, out of the gates. Truck looked good, sounded good, driver feedback was good. Like you would expect with any kind of new truck, that there might be some issues. We ran into uh a couple uh wiring chassis issues, things that were uh addressed within the first month of having the truck, which you know, at the end of the day was quickly rectified by the dealerships. So since then, no issues on that side of things. In terms of drivers and how they've reacted to it, it's been positive all around. The um the truck has worked out well in terms of you know what previous history might have alluded to. You know, um, so you know, I think we've kind of all like had a big, you know, sigh of relief in the sense of, okay, you know, maybe this is good. Maybe we are gonna do all right with this. So I think overall it's been it's been positive, um, but still lots to to see in terms of you know the longevity and the reliability, that sort of thing for sure.

Driver Experience: Quiet, Smooth, Controlled

Jason Cuddy 2:22

Fair. I know even some of our demos we're getting feedback and trying to get the driver's feedback as far as you know with the change, right? You know, so many different powertrains out there. You know, some of the feedback has been, it's I found it's been interesting. It's been non-directly related to it. So one you know, one fee certain feedback was, you know, the radio is very clear, which tells me that the whole engine and powertrain is very quiet. Right. So that's kind of one of it, it's very smooth, it seems to be very, very quiet. That's kind of the feedback we're getting from some of the drivers, at least on the demo side.

Tim Livingstone 2:47

Yeah, absolutely. So that's probably one of the biggest things that our drivers have told us uh is how quiet it is, is how uh smooth it is. Uh, you know, so on a technical side, you know, when the driver tells us that, they they might not know the whole mechanics as to kind of what's going on, but definitely the hydraulic clutch, right? Right, versus an air actuated run, yeah. Um making it that much smoother, right? That much more kind of reliable. The Crete mode, which in in a lot of the international was kind of problematic or you know, wasn't as smooth or it was jerky and there was complaints. If you weren't used to it, especially, you know, we have drivers coming from other OEs that jump into this and like, oh, something's wrong with this low, low Crete mode. Yeah, uh, they've loved it. So that has been, you know, uh a dream for them to be able to slow maneuver nice and smoothly. So that that has been a big thing, right? And then now, you know, with our aging fleet and stuff like that, like you said, you know, the whole the driver kind of jokes, he's like, I don't have to listen to it as loud.

Jason Cuddy 3:51

Right.

Tim Livingstone 3:51

Because, you know, it's it's quieter overall. So I think on the driver experience side within the cab, fantastic.

Fuel Economy Gains And DEF Tradeoffs

Jason Cuddy 3:58

Excellent. And then from the management side, you know, it's always the other take that's nice to get because it's you're obviously not getting, you're not in it driving it, but you're seeing all the numbers and the data behind the scenes. What are you guys kind of seeing so far in the early stages?

Tim Livingstone 4:08

Yeah, so definitely early stages, um, you know, a pretty big gap on fuel mileage when you look at just MPGs right out of the gates on their own. Um, obviously, it does come with a little bit of deaf increased um cost that way. So we're still getting to, you know, how do we compare fuel purchased and spent and burnt versus what is our deaf consumption spent and burnt, that sort of thing, and how does that correlate? So we're working on fine-tuning those numbers, but what we're the kind of the offset to that that's not part of that calculation is the cost of maintenance on the truck, right? So, you know, with rough numbers and if you had something like a hundred thousand, you know, kilometers driven, the fuel savings is around, you know, three and a half to five percent is kind of what we're seeing as a as a whole. Um, so if you did that in dollars, depending on what you're making, you know, cost per per liter or per gallon, twenty six hundred dollars in fuel savings that way. Right. Def consumption's up, you know, upwards of five percent, maybe a little bit more. So let's just say you spend a thousand dollars more. You're still ahead. Right. Right, you're still ahead on your fuel savings. So you got to take that into consideration that you're gonna spend, you know, you're gonna save on fuel, you're gonna see an uptick in your death, but you're still winning. Gotcha. Right. Um again, our trucks are pretty new. Our oldest one's got about 130,000 kilometers on it right now at this point. And when you forecast what are things that can kind of go wrong, and on a management and fleet management side of things, you look, okay, well, what parts fail on most, you know, diesel engine trucks, right? You got EGR components, you've got the EGR cooler, you start to add those things up, you could be $7,000 on a complete install or a complete have to redo that that system if there was a failure or a catastrophic failure within the system. Now you don't even have that. Right. So you know, you don't you're saving on fuel, you're a little bit more on deaf. Assuming nothing else catastrophically goes wrong with the engine and or the after treatment, yeah, you're for sure not spending up to $7,000 on an EGR, which you know is an engine component, but it's kind of a wear and tear item, right? Depending on how the driver idles it, you know, what sort of runs he's doing. Um so we're definitely hopeful that you know we for sure will save an entire EGR system down the line. So, how do you compute all that into your savings?

Spec Lessons: Gearing, Axles, Hills

Jason Cuddy 6:48

Yeah, it's still to be seen, obviously, right? Yeah, obviously, as the truck gets a little bit older and runs, say, in the same length of time as you know other OEs you're you're you have in the fleet, then you can definitely look at that number and as an aggregate determine, oh, hey, you know, at the end of life, out of four or five years, whatever it is, our maintenance spend was this, uh, and fuel is this, and kind of put the two, and then you can start to see really how the math works out. It is still early, but that is the one thing, you know, and I know it's all publicized, is yes, the fuel definitely is is significant savings. But yeah, because of how the technology works, it is using definitely more deaf to control the emissions. Uh, but it's letting the engine be an engine. So you know, you're you're kind of hopefully taking some maintenance costs out of there without having all different stuff going on, letting the engine trying to do other things other than just be truly an engine. And hopefully, to your point, that takes some you know potential maintenance cost down the line off of it. Um I guess the other thing part of the the trick with this one, you know, it's been very publicized for fuel, but obviously the time of that is is spec-based, right? So you know there's a performance aspect to it, but maybe walk us through kind of things you've learned in specing the truck, you know, maybe maybe geared towards fuel that given really didn't have to know your application as far as you know how to spec this thing properly for for what you're doing and get fuel.

Cruise Control Strategy And Learning Curve

Tim Livingstone 7:55

Yeah, definitely. So the ones that we spec'd, um, you know, we took the same approach as what we have historically, and obviously being with a new engine, what were we going to expect out of it could be different than what we actually got. Right. Um so for instance, we spec all of our equipment, you know, as much on the fuel efficiency side of things as possible, right? Um, with very little options for the drivers to click it to a performance mode and stuff like that, right? Um, because every little percentage counts, especially when you run you know the miles that you know we can run on a yearly basis. So we noticed that in a I'll say an extreme situation here on the east coast of our flat plains-ish, right? Um, that on cruise, you know, in top gear, you hit a pretty good incline. There was definitely some starvation for fuel, right? Right. Um, but if we stayed in our southwestern Ontario flat 401 corridor, no, no issues, right? Um on the vibration side of things, it was a little bit of fuel tuning that would have to go in. So, you know, I would say on the next batch, maybe it's not so much a tuning of the engine, but maybe just a different axle ratio to to move that up, maybe step up one one more type thing to help help what's going on because it is quite impressive in the sense that you know she hits her top gear, and uh and the the 14th gear, by the way, is really on the flats. It doesn't spend its entire life in that 14th gear. Yeah, um, so sometimes it'll be sitting in its third, but it'll hold one of those top gears on some pretty good inclines. And on a driver's side, it's almost scary because the RPM just keep coming down, keep coming down, keep coming down, and you're not losing speed drastically, right? Right? Like she's still holding, she's still climbing. So it talks to the you know, that pairing of engine and transmission and the fact that it's able to still push and pull through those hills before having to go to downshift. So that's where we're probably seeing a lot of the fuel savings and stuff like that, which is why we encourage our drivers to use the cruise control so that you know let the truck trust itself, let the engineers say, okay, we can go down this low before we need to shift and that sort of thing. Um, and in those extreme conditions, you come off cruise and you run the pedal. Right. Right? You stand on it, she downshifts for you, and you you power over the hill. So in a in a hilly situation, you definitely don't want to go too fuel efficient, or you want to definitely have your axle ratios correct on that. For us, it's definitely a learning curve because we expect it similar to what we had on a different OE platform. Yeah. So you it works there. Why wouldn't it work here? Well, you know, of course, there's two parts to it, the tuning and the axle ratio. So something that we we've learned, and then obviously going forwards, we'll we'll make those adjustments for sure.

Jason Cuddy 10:50

Fair. And all kinds reminds me of when you know the whole industry shifted to the automated transmissions, and it was, you know, the the feedback from the driver is very similar. Like it's it was a learning curve because all of a sudden now the RPM, the power at the RPM is at a different band than you're used to, right? You're used to you know like your car gearing up high RPM, get you know the meeting power and this thing's sitting between you know 900 and 1100 RPM. So the guys at 1200 RPM saying there's no power. It's like, well, you you've blown through the power, but but you know when you did it yourself, that's where you'd get the power. And so it's it's just been a learning curve and now everyone's automated, so everyone's used to it. So this is like a new version of the learning curve. It's like, to your point, the the vehicle knows what it's doing. If you need to give a little bit of oomph, you give a bit of oomph. But if you just let it go, it'll it'll find where it needs to be, but it's doing it in a way it's been programmed to do it at. And you just kind of got to live with it. And sometimes I had one customer years ago when he went to automated where you know it maybe took them a little bit longer to get over them to the mountains, say in the West Coast, but the drug they weren't stopping for fuel as much because the the truck was more efficient through the mountains, right? So it's one of those trade-offs is like, yes, it took maybe a half hour longer to get through you know the Rockies or as they normally would. Yeah. But they had one or two less fuel stops, right? So then the time uh offset itself, right? So but then you know the cost was had gone down greatly. So it's just it's that whole perspective, right? But it's definitely like you said, it's it's a learning curve, right? It's a new technology, at least at least for the national platform. So it's gonna take a little while to kind of be comfortable with what the truck is doing.

Managing DEF Costs With Depot Control

Tim Livingstone 12:09

That's right. Basically, and then based on stops and and fueling and and whatnot. So something for us is we're pretty regionalized in sense of where we're going. So we're fortunate that even though we have a little bit of a higher death consumption, we're always coming back home. Right. So, you know, that's where maybe someone who who might do a little bit more like cross country style travel, the death consumption and cost of that deaf consumption might be a little bit different, right? So we're fortunate we can always get our trucks routed back home. They're fueling in our depot, they're getting, you know, our bulk supply of death, and we're not, you know, at the mercy of the pumps. Right. Makes sense. So so if you can do that, then you're really alleviating that increased cost in in death consumption by doing it in-house. Yeah. So for us, again, we're probably more favorable to say, yeah, that fuel mileage is that much better because we're controlling our death costs that much more.

Downtime, Case Files, And New Protocols

Jason Cuddy 13:07

Yeah. No, that's fair. And that's all part of it, right? That's kind of why it's it's nice to get the customer perspective. Because you know, on paper, we you know, we have the the test data and all these different things, and it does validate, but it's nice to get the real world. And it's just little things like that where your numbers will vary depending on where you where you're having these touch points, right? If you're doing it in your facility where you can control your cost grade, if it's all retail purchases, yeah, then that cost is gonna spike obviously a little bit more. So you know, these are all things to at least be aware of and know. And then you know, another piece, you know, you mentioned briefly, but obviously, you know, uptime's been fairly good, but it's a machine, it's it's gonna it's gonna break down the odd time, you know, it's maybe walk us through kind of some of the things we've learned as far as a new process, you know, from the dealership side too, but also on the customer side as far as you know the few instances where the truck has been been down.

Engineering Escalations And Faster Resolutions

Tim Livingstone 13:48

Yeah, so what we've seen uh on these engines and the transmission as as a whole have been oil leaks. We we've noticed some oil leaks. Um so I joke with the with the group and I you know, I go, okay, well guys, let's go back to when we were in school and we were doing our you know classes, you know, what's a class one leak, two leak, three leak, and what's an out-of-service, and when can we can kind of continue on? So the oil leaks are not a a you know out of service situation at this point, right? Um like anything new. We got new seals being mated to new metal and new designs and stuff like that. So maybe those are the reasons for the leaks, and and we'll get through those things. What we have noticed is is the downtime has been when it does go down, which has been uh very far and few between, which is a good thing. Um it is a little bit of a lengthy downtime, is what we've noticed. Um, for instance, making sure that the the case file has been opened, right? That uh the shops know that okay, this is an S13, which of course they do, but what's the new protocol? And so our learning kind of curve and pain has been okay, let's make sure that the the the right paths are being followed for this diagnostic. So it's we feel that it's being controlled a little bit in the sense of you know, the the dealership can't maybe make the decision right there on the fly like they would if it was something else. Um, you know, there's a different avenue that they need to go to like escalate to their engineering team. And once we get that going, it seems to kind of flow through. Um you know, I don't think it was that long. Uh we had an experience where you know we had a transmission leaking. Um, by the time it went through the engineering process, and they said, yeah, okay, as opposed to like taking it out, tearing it apart, putting it back together, and you know, like anyone, it's technically still a new truck. You don't really want something taken apart and put back together and put back into your truck, they swapped out the entire transmission, right? Right. But to go from, hey, here's the problem to you know, here's the solution, and it's back in and running down the road making you money. There was, you know, a little over a week's time on that, which I would hope that we don't have to do that again. But if we did, we would know, okay, hey, to fast track this, I need this case file number. I I need to know that this is going to be followed. Um, and it's new for everybody, right? So on the fleet manager and shop manager side to make sure that, hey, listen, we're asking for the right documentation, we're asking for the right processes to be followed in the case that the dealership doesn't know. Because at the end of the day, like for me, it's all about partnership and relationships. And if you can, if you know something that they're maybe not doing because it's also new to them, right, fair, share that information. And then, you know, we would expect it back the same way that, you know, yes, maybe in the past we did it like this, but actually we have a new process to follow and it's got to go this way. So to give a little bit of understanding to, you know, the ops team on why is this taking longer? You know, it never is taking this long before. Right. And for us, you know, we've been so long with the previous platform that now going with this platform, everything's new. Right. So it, you know, everyone's got this rhythm and pattern with what they've come accustomed to that any little change feels catastrophic.

Jason Cuddy 17:06

Fair.

Tim Livingstone 17:06

Right. So I would say that patience on probably both sides, the customer and the dealer, to say, okay, what's going on? Expect a little bit of uh, you know, sharpness on the customer side to be like, hey, I want this done now. Um, and then obviously us to be understanding both ways, right?

Jason Cuddy 17:21

So I think I think to your point, it's a new platform, and you know, for the areas you run, obviously in and out's got a massive footprint, you know, service-wise. And you know, not every dealership maybe has seen one of these in their in their shop yet, right? So if there's a protocol, there's a process, there's case files you need to open. And once that gets going, you know, there's basically almost like a help team kind of dedicated to this this powertrain to make sure it is up and running. And kind of to your point, once that kind of got going, then it then speed picks up a bit. And so a lot of it is, you know, for the for dealerships too, making sure you you can't just diagnose it the old way. You've got to follow a new protocol to get the right people involved. And it seems to be, to your point, there's something not even catastrophic, but something big enough where it's like, we don't want to rip out pieces, let's just, you know, ship stuff out. So you new transmission or new engine, just swap them out. And I think a lot of times they'll take that and engineer will go back and look at it and see, okay, what actually causes failures. They're using it as also a diagnosis tool. Correct. Right? So they're not instead of putting a band-aid on it, which will probably work and it'll be fine. Let's take it out, let's see what failed so we can kind of either get in front of it, you know, make changes on the production line, or at least, you know, have a case that file on file for if something goes, hey, here's what we notice, here's the fix and away you go. Right.

Tim Livingstone 18:23

So that's actually a very good point. So that was a question, you know, that I had internally brought to me. Well, why would they change the whole transmission? Yeah. Probably for that RD purpose, right? To be able to bring that back and and actually open it up and not say not have a mechanic look at it, but have your you know, cameras and everybody monitoring exactly what went wrong to make those changes, you know, going forward. So if that was the case, then great. Then then you can understand why maybe it took a little bit longer, right? Because there was a little bit more due diligence being made uh in that decision. Whereas before it'd be maybe a little bit quicker, be like, ah yeah, we know what went wrong, pull it out, put one back in, or whatever the case might be. Exactly.

Cold Starts, Air Systems, And Comfort

Jason Cuddy 19:02

And yeah, as it keeps as this you know keeps going out to the field and more and more are on the road, obviously you're gonna find those quicker fixes, right? Yeah. It's it's just again, it's a learning curve, it's a newer platform. But yeah, I mean that's that's the biggest thing is a little bit of patience and just make sure everyone's on the same page as far as the process, you know, and it's good for the customers to know that there's a new process, different process. Because like you said, if you're using it to a certain way, yeah, that way is not going to expedite the repair as it used to, kind of thing in the past. So just being aware that there's a different process just helps too with the expectation, right? In the communication piece. Yep. You know, so and then yeah, I think that the last thing was, you know, you talk about driver feedback, and I think we mentioned a few, right? The um, you know, with the the clutch is being a big one, right? The electric actually, the clutch versus air is a big one. Any other little feedbacks if from the customer or from the drivers you're hearing?

Looking Ahead And Realistic Expectations

Tim Livingstone 19:45

So we just went through a pretty good cold snap and uh turn the keys, truck starts. Oh nice. So uh that is a very uh good thing, right? So you you never know. You we know everyone knows that okay, this truck probably should be plugged in, or we should probably do this with this one. Um cold as it was, turn the key and boom, it started. Nice. So so that was that was nice. Uh, you know, we talked about the quietness of the engine, the smoothness of it, uh, the shifting. In the cold weather, you know, their air brakes and stuff like that, valves. Yeah, we don't have that issue with the transmission. So we can start the truck up, and it's that much less time to get that air tank to fill up. Um, we don't have frozen valves that move the air from getting to that air tank where you're stuck now because you got no shifting availability to you. Um so that that has been uh nice for for the drivers to just be able to, you know, you want them to warm it up, but even like on a warm day, right? You start the truck and you're not sitting there waiting for everything to warm up or you know, airlines leak, yeah, you know, and that little air tank only holds so much. So, you know, you you go to your shipper, you get out, you come back, and you know, your transmission air tank's empty. Oh, we gotta wait a few minutes to to let that air up. So, so just the comfort features in that have been pretty good for them. Um going forwards on some spec things that you know we we're excited to kind of bring in and and offer to our drivers is you know the electronic part brake buttons, right? So as opposed to the big manual push ones, the pull ones, it snaps, it feels like you know, somebody hit your funny bone, it goes through your arm, right? Uh, this here, you know, will be that much of a of a bigger comfort kind of upgrade for them that way. So we look we look forward to that, whether it's with the S13 or another platform, but things like that that's uh you know, we'll we'll bring to the drivers and make them as comfortable as possible.

Jason Cuddy 21:47

Nice. No, there's some good things to look forward to. But uh yeah, I'm gonna appreciate you you coming in and give us a general overview of kind of your experience and you know what things have been good, you know, a few to pain points, but you know, how to work through them and and and just kind of you know level setting expectations and just But the nice part is overall you're you know you're seeing some at least some some decent you know initial response and feedback on it.

Tim Livingstone 22:05

Yeah, it's been very positive. We're we're excited to see kind of you know now that we're at this point where you know, like I said before, the honeymoon stage is kind of over and we're kind of seeing, you know, some oil leaks and uh the truck act like a truck, right? Um, which is to be expected. So so now it's you know, we're getting into the weeds of things and and if it continues the way it's going, great. And then if not, uh I'll be happy to share again uh what our true findings are after a couple more years.

Jason Cuddy 22:32

So maybe do it, maybe come back another year after you know you got more miles and more on the fleet and just kind of get a you know another candid version of you know how it's been after a couple years in service. Absolutely. It's always good feedback. Well, we appreciate you you making a time today. Appreciate it.

Tim Livingstone 22:43

No problem.

Wrap Up And Next Steps

Jason Cuddy 22:43

Excellent. Well, that concludes today's episode. To catch past episodes, check out transportation exchange podcast.ca. And until next time, thanks for watching.