Speaker 1: Good afternoon our viewers and listeners.
Speaker 1: Welcome to, yet again, another episode of Connect, and this is a talk show where we integrate the word of God with normal life issues, what we go through every other day when you wake up, when you go to sleep and we want to get to understand again today, on issues to do with depression, when we talk about matters, mental health.
Speaker 1: In our last session we had an interactive session just talking about what depression is all about, and I'm also happy that today in the house we have Linus Ouyugi, a counseling clinic psychologist.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, linus, for coming back and being always free to discuss issues, mental illnesses and what information people need to get to hear.
Speaker 1: So last time we had a very interactive session and a number of our viewers and listeners are reaching out to us, and there's a question and something that we need now to move forward to discuss about today, and one of it is one of all listeners was asking about is a depression caused by sinning?
Speaker 1: And we will see when we talk about issues to do with causes.
Speaker 1: But again, one of our listeners was asking can depression be explained by an act?
Speaker 1: You know somebody's acting and behaving in a different way.
Speaker 1: Can we say that that is because of depression.
Speaker 1: Yes, karibu Sana.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2: Depression can explain so many behaviors, explain so many things, can explain why somebody is not struggling to wake up in the morning, why they're sleeping excessively, why they're losing weight, why they're adding weight.
Speaker 2: Depression can also explain why somebody's feeling suicidal.
Speaker 2: Depression can also explain why somebody is struggling to complete their tasks.
Speaker 2: But what we usually say mental health is that mental health conditions explain behavior.
Speaker 2: They do not excuse behavior.
Speaker 1: Wow, they do not excuse behavior.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some people.
Speaker 2: When they're depressed, they may feel suicidal, so their aggression is directed towards themselves.
Speaker 2: Some people may direct their aggression towards other people.
Speaker 2: Really, it's not really unusual for somebody to feel like that as well.
Speaker 1: So we can't really say that every action can point to depression.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely yeah wow, thank you.
Speaker 1: Then another issue that came up from again our listeners is on the issue to do with depression and disability.
Speaker 1: Can we say that somebody who is depressed is disabled, or we can put them in the brackets of having an issue to do with disability?
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the country, as far as I know perhaps I'm wrong depression is not really classified as a disability or physical or mental disability.
Speaker 2: But according to the Congressional, congressional for Human Rights, for Personnel is living with disability, mental health conditions are actually classified as disabilities.
Speaker 2: So not even just saying that, we know that severe depression can actually disable a person in so many ways.
Speaker 2: We talked about causing significant impairment in daily functioning.
Speaker 2: People who are depressed may struggle to go to work, they may struggle to eat, they may struggle to maintain personal hygiene, and these are all elements of disability.
Speaker 2: So depression and other mental health conditions indeed can disable a person.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 1: Then please allow me to read from the Book of Psalms, and chapter 34, verse 4, says I sought the Lord and he answered me.
Speaker 1: He delivered me from all my fears.
Speaker 1: Those who look to Him are radiant.
Speaker 1: Their faces are never covered with sin.
Speaker 1: So, despite what we are going through as people and as people who know and read the Word of God, it's good to sort, always to look upon the Lord.
Speaker 1: And again, the Book of Second Chronicles, 714.
Speaker 1: Sister, talks about us humbling ourselves before God.
Speaker 1: You know, if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, pray, seek my face and turn away from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and forgive their sins and I will heal their land.
Speaker 1: So it is a disease, but again it being a disease and we get to understand quite a lot about depression when we are seated here it being a disease.
Speaker 1: God is telling us to humble ourselves before Him, to seek Him, you know, to turn, to turn from our wicked ways and also to pray.
Speaker 1: And, interestingly, this Sunday we were being taught about just giving praises on what we are going through.
Speaker 1: You know, in everything that you're going through, give praise to God.
Speaker 1: Let's forget about many things, and we saw a number of things when we had the last session, but again today, lainas, I want us to still from our listeners.
Speaker 1: Let's differentiate between stress and depression.
Speaker 2: That's one of the most commonly asked questions what's really the difference between stress and depression?
Speaker 2: I think the simple answer would be to say that one is a mental illness and the other one is not.
Speaker 2: I think by just saying that you can tell that depression is actually a serious mental illness that can be quite debilitating, but stress is not a mental illness.
Speaker 2: Although stress is not a mental illness, it's actually been classified by the WHO, the Health Organization, as a physical syndrome with identifiable symptoms.
Speaker 2: Stress, by definition, is your body's physical or emotional reaction to a demand or threat.
Speaker 2: So that definition does not tell you whether stress is negative or positive.
Speaker 2: So stress actually can be good, but often time stress is negative.
Speaker 2: We actually do need a significant level of stress for us to be able to function at our best.
Speaker 2: But too little stress or a situation of too little stress or no stress at all, or a situation of extreme stress those two situations are undesirable Because somebody who does not have stress is very lazy.
Speaker 2: They're lethargic, they probably want to sleep in bed all day.
Speaker 2: They've got no motivation.
Speaker 2: So stress actually does motivate you towards a cause of action.
Speaker 2: But prolonged negative stress can actually lead to mental illness.
Speaker 2: So if you're chronically stressed about something and you're not doing anything to distress, you're not practicing self-care, being mindful, you're not looking after yourself.
Speaker 2: That could lead to mental illness and, as you're going to talk about maybe the symptoms or the causes of mental illness, stress is actually one of the major causes of depression.
Speaker 1: Wow, thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You've heard from Lainas and we are jumping to the causes now because, as I started earlier, I was talking about issues to do with depression.
Speaker 1: But again, when you look at other definitions, not just the academic kind of definition but the world-led beliefs from out there, the many causes that people would say are the ones that are causing depression, but maybe from your point of view, what do we say causes depression?
Speaker 2: So depression is probably one of the world's most studied conditions on the planet.
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 2: Because depression and anxiety are actually two of the most common illnesses on the planet.
Speaker 2: They're actually extrapolated to cost the global economy about 2 trillion US dollars every year in terms of treatment, managing people who have depression and anxiety.
Speaker 2: So it's widely studied.
Speaker 2: Although it's widely studied, studies actually have not been able to narrow down the course of depression to one reason or to one factor, so we don't know any single known course of depression.
Speaker 2: But what we do know is that there are risk factors to developing depression, the conditions that can make it more likely that an individual develop depression.
Speaker 2: But one of the ones, which I think is the most compelling reason as to why somebody might develop depression, is biological reasons genetics, family history of depression.
Speaker 2: So you find that for patients that we see on a regular basis, if you look at the family tree or the family history, we find similar symptoms or similar traces of the same condition, Whether they're grandfather heart depression, their mother heart depression, their father heart depression.
Speaker 2: So you can actually inherit a genetic predisposition from your father or your mother, your grandparents, that would make it more likely that you'll develop depression.
Speaker 2: Having said that a genetic predisposition often times is not enough.
Speaker 2: You can be born with a genetic predisposition and the predisposition will remain dormant for the rest of your life, so it will wait for what we call a trigger, something to trigger it.
Speaker 2: So a combination of a genetic predisposition with a trigger like chronic stress, where you're chronically stressed and you don't do anything about it, or you start to engage in substances, start using alcohol or drinking can now trigger the onset of the symptoms of depression.
Speaker 2: Other risk factors include gender, where we talked about in the last interview that women are disproportionately affected more when it comes to depression compared to men.
Speaker 2: But we do have a lot of men also suffering from depression and the number is not really accurate because we think that there's, more than we actually think, more men with depression.
Speaker 2: So gender history of trauma, and especially trauma early in childhood what we call adverse childhood experiences could also predispose a person to depression.
Speaker 2: Having personality traits that can also make some people vulnerable.
Speaker 2: The studies talking about introversion, which is a personality trait, and it's linked to depression.
Speaker 2: There's some differing studies that actually show that extroversion can predispose a person to depression, which is very, very unclear.
Speaker 2: But there's also other minor factors like poor nutrition, Really, yeah, poor nutrition.
Speaker 2: There was actually a study recently, not long ago, in one of the Kenyan television media that talked about fries, french fries chips.
Speaker 2: There's a connection, Remember they're listening, write down.
Speaker 1: maybe they're taking chips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a connection between eating french fries and depression, so nutrition actually does significantly affect your mood.
Speaker 2: Now the study is showing that chips or french fries could actually be linked to depression.
Speaker 1: Think we really need to look for that and read more about that, because our viewers or listeners maybe, are taking a plate of chips right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they have stopped eating when you mentioned that they're going to introduce the intake.
Speaker 2: They need to introduce the intake Not just for their mental health, but also for their physical health.
Speaker 1: I think, because sometimes we think it's a quick snack and it helps us when we are watching or doing something Interestingly.
Speaker 1: But I've also found out an issue to do with depression and causes in the Bible and an issue to do with hopelessness and fear.
Speaker 1: The Bible talks about hopelessness and fear, that it can cause depression.
Speaker 1: How do we talk about that in a different term?
Speaker 2: Hopelessness is actually a symptom of depression In the Bible of psychology and psychology that we call the diagnostic and statistical manual for mental disorder the.
Speaker 2: Dysent 5.
Speaker 2: So it's actually one of the symptoms of depression, but I think it's just what you'd expect.
Speaker 2: What do you expect from somebody who's hopeless?
Speaker 2: They've got nothing to look forward to?
Speaker 2: That's probably the darkest place.
Speaker 2: One of the darkest places you can be Suicidal ideation or suicidal attempt.
Speaker 2: One of the aspects that have been found to be more highly associated with suicidal thought is actually feelings of hopelessness.
Speaker 2: When somebody has got no hope, they're actually very, very likely to die by suicide or even think of suicide.
Speaker 1: Even as we talk about the causes of depression and trying to enlighten ourselves and our viewers.
Speaker 1: Today, I know we have families, maybe we have people who are suffering from depression.
Speaker 1: Some of them might be people from the younger age, the youth to that age.
Speaker 1: I don't want to give the statistics because I know you manage to do quite a lot, but as we talk to the caregivers because I know some of our parents are taking care of our children maybe who are suffering from depression, spouses who are also suffering from depression what message do we give to them about caregiving for this category of people?
Speaker 2: What they need is empathy.
Speaker 2: They need empathy and understanding.
Speaker 2: What do I need by empathy?
Speaker 2: You, as a parent or as a caregiver, you need to constantly try to put yourself in the same frame of reference as them.
Speaker 2: Put yourself in their shoes, think with their mind, feel with their heart, feel with their emotions and understand what they're going through.
Speaker 2: Think empathy is one of the most important things when it comes to helping a person when they're going through something.
Speaker 2: Understand them and encourage them to seek help.
Speaker 2: And also we talked about one of the symptoms of depression could be lethargy, where you don't have energy to do things.
Speaker 2: As a parent or as a caregiver, you can motivate them to do the little things and also praise them and applaud them when they do something, Because an applause would lead to them doing more and more and eventually completing tasks.
Speaker 2: So, I think key would be empathy, empathic, understanding.
Speaker 2: It's very, very, very difficult to understand a person if you're not them.
Speaker 2: It's a skill that actually can be practiced and learned.
Speaker 1: That's why, earlier we said in our last episode we talked about, it's only God who can understand us, what we are going through, and it's also very hard for you as a human being to get into the other person's shoes, to feel with them, and that's why we keep saying we feel with people.
Speaker 1: We do not understand what they're going through, what we feel.
Speaker 1: But again, why I brought that up is because sometimes, when you visit people at home who have people who are suffering, or patients who are suffering from depression, they try to hide them or rather they try to ignore them, and it's not a good act.
Speaker 1: What you've said that we just need to be pathetic about them and also getting to understand them Wow, that brings us to another issue on treatment, and you spoke earlier about diagnosing it and you also say let us not self-diagnose issues to do with depression.
Speaker 1: But there are people who come forward and they say I don't think I'm feeling.
Speaker 1: Okay, I am not myself.
Speaker 1: So, as a clinician, you have made these people, you have spoken to them, but again, what are the treatment?
Speaker 1: And this now, as we talk about the different types of depression, I know for some, as you said earlier, we don't need to give them the antidepressants.
Speaker 1: So what are the types of treatment?
Speaker 2: Good part, good question to talk about.
Speaker 2: I think before treatment there's prevention.
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 2: Studies actually do show that most of us, before we die, even if you don't have a genetic predisposition, we'll have at least one depressive phase.
Speaker 2: So we are not going to go scot free.
Speaker 2: So it's something that affects pretty much all of us.
Speaker 2: So we need to learn ways of ensuring that we are making sure or ensuring that we don't get to that level.
Speaker 2: I think, importantly, what you can do is self-care.
Speaker 2: Take care of yourself, take care of your spiritual self-care.
Speaker 2: If you are a Christian, go to church, read the Bible.
Speaker 2: If you are a Muslim, go to the mosque, read the Quran.
Speaker 2: If you are just taking care of your spirituality.
Speaker 2: But since we are Christians here, just reading the Bible and following Christ, that can act as a protective factor for people and protect them from developing depression.
Speaker 2: Eat a healthy, balance diet, drink plenty of water, exercise regularly, make sure that you maintain a stable social network, have positive conversations with positive people, and that can go a long way in preventing depression or ensuring that it doesn't get to a level whereby you are meeting the diagnostic criteria for depression.
Speaker 1: When you spoke about prevention and you are encouraging us, as Christians, to read the Word of God, to pray.
Speaker 1: It's very, very vital for us, because the only way we can fight this battle is on our knees, praying and thanking God.
Speaker 1: So let's find our quiet time to talk to God about our anxiety, our fears, what we feel is not working out.
Speaker 1: Let us bring them to the Lord, because he is the only person we can be able to to hold us at all.
Speaker 1: He is the only One who can be able to help us with whatever we are going through.
Speaker 1: So that is part of our prevention.
Speaker 1: But again, let us not forget that Sometimes it can be overwhelming, even for us, and sometimes you go before God, you're praying and you feel like there's nothing.
Speaker 1: Nothing is happening.
Speaker 1: He is also encouraging us to do self-care.
Speaker 1: Take a walk, so, if you can, you know, cook, if that is can be a therapy For you.
Speaker 1: So thank you for mentioning that.
Speaker 1: So we are now talking about Treatment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first line treatment for depression this is standard Worldwide, that, before you think of anything else, when somebody has been diagnosed with clinical depression or with a depressed disorder is medication and talking about antidepressants.
Speaker 2: And we have third generation very, very good Antidepressant medication with very limited side effects that are very, very effective in treating depression.
Speaker 2: And we've got very different, several types of antidepressants.
Speaker 2: You've got tricyclic antidepressants, ssi, rise.
Speaker 2: Your psychiatry is going to you can we'll prescribe something that works for you, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: But we also have psychotherapy, so, and medication is to help with the chemical changes that are associated with depression.
Speaker 2: Depression is associated with chemical imbalances, so it handles all of that.
Speaker 2: But depression is not just about chemical imbalances, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Oftentimes people are depressed because they've got a negative way of thinking.
Speaker 2: Maybe they catastrophize, or they're they're, they're perfectionistic, they're over thinkers, they're, they're black and black, white thinkers, black and white thinkers.
Speaker 2: So this is where now therapy comes into play, and specifically a mode of therapy that we call CBT cognitive behavioral therapy that focuses on how to change the way people think and in that way, affect how they behave and how they feel.
Speaker 2: But best treatment outcomes are Experienced when there's combination of medication and psychotherapy.
Speaker 2: But medication is specifically for very, very serious or severe depression.
Speaker 2: You can have depression, be diagnosed with depression and choose not to be on medication and still do well with just psychotherapy.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm but based on the severity, doctors would prescribe medication which is very effective Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Although, just lastly, there's also treatment resistant depression.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm whereby maybe somebody has been a treatment for a long time and the medication ceases to work, or they're just not responding to medication or psychotherapy.
Speaker 2: Last resort is what is actually called Electroconversive therapy or ECT, something that we also offer at Chiroma Hospital, mm-hmm, which is very, very effective for treatment resistant depression.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's good to To also get to understand.
Speaker 1: And while we have spoken about Treatment and you've mentioned about the talk therapy, and when we say therapy, we are talking about the talk therapy, counseling.
Speaker 1: Yeah just going in talking to a professional about the issues that you are going through, then then again, the best treatment is talking to God.
Speaker 1: Yeah now is the best therapist of all that, talking to him about what you're going through.
Speaker 1: We will keep repeating this today he is the only one who can carry all burdens.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So as, as we think about the other treatments that I also think about Talking to God through Thanksgiving, talking to God through praising him, talking to God, just, you know, telling him, telling him everything about our lives and what we are feeling.
Speaker 1: So, um, on top of the same, we have different type of meats and believes about Courses of Depression, and the first one is a you know, the Christian kind of a.
Speaker 1: I'll put it in quotes that Depression is caused by sinning.
Speaker 1: For you to be depressed as a mom of a nathana.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll cut and the one I keep.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm only.
Speaker 1: You know, that's what you saying.
Speaker 2: I'm a candy, I'm okay, I'm only yeah, I mean I that's also more or less a theological question, but the first thing that comes to mind is Christ, because Christ was sinless.
Speaker 2: Christ is not sin, but actually the Bible.
Speaker 2: In the book of Matthew, chapter 26, verse 37 Maybe you are listening and listen and read at their own free time it talks about an incident in the Garden of Jetsam, and when Jesus spoke about feelings or symptoms that, or feelings that would actually be depression like.
Speaker 2: So we know that and he even talks about, he gives us a perfect example of how to deal with depression.
Speaker 2: He talks about feeling overwhelmed with solo to the point of death.
Speaker 2: Overwhelmed with solo to the point.
Speaker 2: And this is Christ, yes, and the way he deals with it is that he first of all identifies one of his disciples, talks to them, tells them exactly how he's feeling and labels the emotion Mm-hmm, and then he goes to God to pray, he goes to his father to pray and then he comes back and tells them that stay with me, keep with me.
Speaker 2: So he's even asking his disciples to stay with him because he's in a difficulty emotional state.
Speaker 2: He did them Jesus Christ himself.
Speaker 2: He was sinless, he was perfect, he was white as snow and he still experienced symptoms of depression.
Speaker 2: So that means that depression is not really sin, it's just an affliction condition.
Speaker 2: Christ can heal it and I also personally believe in that.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 1: And also just to also tell our viewers that, for those people who are depressed, we need to bring them closer.
Speaker 1: They have not really done something that has and we say paste God off, but we need to bring them closer, which is the other means that we talk about when we say depression.
Speaker 2: One very common myth is that depression only affects women.
Speaker 2: I think I really proved that by statistics that although it's true it affects more women compared to men, it does affect men to also a significant proportion, and we know for a fact that suicide, which is a symptom of depression, actually kills more men than women, so it does affect both men and women.
Speaker 2: Some people believe that I think this is very, very inaccurate that talking about depression actually makes it worse, that if you have depression and you talk to somebody, it makes it worse.
Speaker 2: That's not true.
Speaker 2: It actually does the exact opposite.
Speaker 2: There's something that we call catharsis in psychotherapy, whereby the simple act of just talking about what you're going through just helps to relieve a significant load of the stress that you're going through.
Speaker 2: Talking about depression, especially in safe spaces like therapy or with a trusted friend, actually does help.
Speaker 2: So find spaces to talk.
Speaker 2: Some people also believe that antidepressants always cure depression.
Speaker 2: It doesn't always cure depression.
Speaker 2: As we talked about, we said that depression is not only due to chemical imbalances in the brain.
Speaker 2: It could also be caused by negative thinking styles.
Speaker 2: So medication is going to change your thinking style.
Speaker 2: So what you need is therapy, and sometimes what you need is a lifestyle change to exercise regularly, peter, health and balance diet.
Speaker 2: So antidepressants are very effective, but they are not a perfect solution for depression.
Speaker 2: And lastly, people believe that depression only happens due to a bad situation.
Speaker 2: Depression is just a reaction of bad situations.
Speaker 2: There are so many examples of people with perfect lives.
Speaker 2: They've got a very stable career, they've got a very good relationship with their partner, they are rich, they've got a very stable social network, and yet they die by suicide due to depression.
Speaker 2: So it's not just situational.
Speaker 2: You can actually be depressed when everything around you seems to be doing well.
Speaker 1: I've also heard people saying that it's an issue to do with postpartum depression.
Speaker 1: It can be caused by an issue to do with ancestral spirits.
Speaker 1: You know, you've been cast maybe by your father in law, your mother in law, but again today we are demensifying those issues when we are talking about the means and the beliefs.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much, linus, for that information.
Speaker 1: It's really good information for us to pick.
Speaker 1: But I'd love to inform us, inform you and myself and the viewers today that God knows your name, he knows my name, he knows every thought that crosses your mind, that crosses my mind.
Speaker 1: He sees each tears that falls and the last thing that he does is that he's ready to hold us, you know, in case of anything.
Speaker 1: So he has promised us quite a lot.
Speaker 1: Let us keep connecting with our God, let us keep trusting Him and praising Him, despite of or regardless of what we are going through.
Speaker 1: This has been Connect.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for connecting with us to don't issues to do with depression, looking forward for more sessions on mental health illnesses and please feel free to reach out to us using the social media handles on the screen and we will be very available to answer your questions and also to keep talking about issues to do with mental health.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: God bless you.