SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Connect, where we go beyond Sunday.
SPEAKER_00: This is your talk show that uh integrates the Word of God with real life issues.
SPEAKER_00: You can communicate with us, you can interact with us using the email address that is provided for us.
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SPEAKER_00: Today on Connect, we have William Kiriba.
SPEAKER_00: William Kiriba is a business coach and a mentor.
SPEAKER_00: Kariba Sana William.
SPEAKER_00: We are glad to have you on this talk show.
SPEAKER_00: And today we are handling a very interesting topic: money.
SPEAKER_00: We are talking about money, and specifically, uh, this episode will be focusing on uh your relationship with money.
SPEAKER_00: It's a very interesting topic.
SPEAKER_00: Relationship and money.
SPEAKER_00: And uh money seems to be part of our everyday life.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, they say money rules the world.
SPEAKER_01: And the truth is every day when you wake up, most of your decisions will be made by money.
SPEAKER_01: I'm waking up to go to work so that I can make money, to be able to feed myself.
SPEAKER_01: I'm waking up so that I'm able to pay my rent, I'm waking up to have a good life, to give a good life to my family.
SPEAKER_01: I'm waking up early so that I can take care of me, my family, and the people that count, that count to my life.
SPEAKER_01: So money revolves around most of your life, and that's the truth.
SPEAKER_01: And the moment we realize that, then we'll redefine our relationship with money.
SPEAKER_00: Very important.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: And so it's actually important for a Christian to talk about money.
SPEAKER_00: I know when we talk about money today as Christians, especially, there are those who think we should not talk about money.
SPEAKER_00: Of course, the the there is that extreme.
SPEAKER_00: The pro prosperity gospel has its own extreme, but also there are those who will have the will be on the other extreme, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Where it's like uh as a Christian, you actually need to be poor.
SPEAKER_00: You need to stay away from money.
SPEAKER_00: Is there a balance that we need to strike on this conversation, especially for the Christian?
SPEAKER_01: A Christian, a Muslim, every person, they are they must define the relationship with money.
SPEAKER_01: And the definition of, we actually would want to take it back to your foundations.
SPEAKER_01: How were you defined the relationship with money?
SPEAKER_01: Some of us who have struggled through life and have been raised through struggles, you have a very disjointed relationship with money because you you have lived from a life of trying to run away from mashida, trying to run away from poverty.
SPEAKER_01: So you're working so hard to run away from it.
SPEAKER_01: But did you sit down and define with your parents?
SPEAKER_01: Did they help you to define how should you relate with money?
SPEAKER_01: Scarcity, abundance, and in all that aspect.
SPEAKER_01: So, as a Christian, how do you relate with money?
SPEAKER_01: And as you say, as a Christian, we are stewards.
SPEAKER_01: And I think that we'll be coming to having that conversation later.
SPEAKER_01: But our relationship with money also defines our relationship with God because God has appointed us as stewards so that we can relate with money that He has made us to be accountable for, to be stewards, that we will be accounted later, whether we were good and faithful servants.
SPEAKER_00: So again, even uh issues of money when it comes to God looking at good and faithful stewards, this will also be part of what uh we shall account.
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, the Bible talks about money, or rather the issues of money and wealth in the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you may find over 800 mentions of money and wealth in the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, uh Jesus himself, in terms of his teachings and parables, there are times he mentions, he may not be directly teaching on money in every in each of those uh um parables, about 10 or 11 of them, where he, whether it's an example he's giving, whether it's a different teaching that uh he's passing across, but he actually mentions money or issues to do with wealth.
SPEAKER_00: You may remember the the 10 miners, the talents, there are places he talks about wages in his parables, yes, and they all talk about money, and and that tells me that even in his time, money was a key issue, just as it is.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, he had a treasurer.
SPEAKER_00: You want to mention his name among among the 12 disciples of the treasurer, there was the role of the treasurer of a treasurer, and and the Bible says that he's the one who kept the pass that had money.
SPEAKER_00: Of course, we can see what he later did again with the money.
SPEAKER_00: And we just talked about those two extremes uh relating with money, then becomes a very important topic for even Christians.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you mentioned it basically everyone, but as we narrow down to the Christian, just to demystify that really money is not evil, and money is there, it's it's in the scripture, wealth is in the scripture, and we will be going into that.
SPEAKER_00: But um, again, you're mentioning that uh my relationship with money can be informed by my past.
SPEAKER_00: And it necessarily doesn't necessarily mean that that past had the correct perspective of what money and money issues should be.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you are picking that point, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And uh picking it up and just connecting with this conversation.
SPEAKER_01: Let me pick and let me talk about the wheel of life.
SPEAKER_01: The wheel of life is every aspect that defines our lives.
SPEAKER_01: Pastor Kiniti, my spirituality, my love life with my wife, my parenting with my children, my career, my relationship with family, friends.
SPEAKER_01: Talk about all those aspects of life.
SPEAKER_01: My career, my personal growth, everything and every decision I make, it is defined by money.
SPEAKER_01: Because it is the resource that will enable me to achieve, whether it is a personal growth, whether it is a career I'm trying to pursue, it will define how I live with my wife.
SPEAKER_01: That's the truth.
SPEAKER_01: Do I, you know, poverty, you know, and riches, the lifestyle that we live will be defined by how much we have.
SPEAKER_01: The most marriages, and the truth is, most of the divorces and most of the marriages issues revolve around money.
SPEAKER_01: Parenting, the place that I take my children to school, how I raise them, the life I expose them to, money will be a factor.
SPEAKER_01: The career that I have, where I wake up every Monday to Friday while someone else, you know, the way we live our lives, waking up in the morning and going back home, money is at the center of it all.
SPEAKER_01: And that has come from how it was defined by our parents.
SPEAKER_01: If you lived in a very, in a very scarce money environment, let me say being raised through poverty, you will be raised with a very negative relationship with money.
SPEAKER_01: Because you'll feel like my life has been disadvantaged because I did not have money.
SPEAKER_01: When you look at people, you'll be finding they are more advantaged than you because of money.
SPEAKER_01: And so you'll be in the pursuit of money so that you can catch up with them.
SPEAKER_01: The way our parents related with money, when we went to a supermarket, not on a not a supermarket, in the market, they will find always negotiating.
SPEAKER_01: You'll find yourself probably also living from that mindset, your scarcity.
SPEAKER_01: So whenever you find money, you want to hold it so that usikwe na experience kamaya family.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know whether it's for you because our code king is a peer.
SPEAKER_01: At the same time, you might also have a parenthood where you lived one day at a time.
SPEAKER_01: And let me use my example.
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know whether it's a testimony.
SPEAKER_01: I think it shouldn't be a testimony.
SPEAKER_01: As far as I got to know myself, as young as I was, seven years.
SPEAKER_01: In our house is a mirror that my dad put Matthew 6 25, where it says, Do not worry what you shall eat, drink, or wear.
SPEAKER_01: And that kyo, illegal kyog, so you have to reverse this is still at home after date.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I don't know its mystery, but I usually tell my dad that kyo is there.
SPEAKER_01: So, and that is how we lived.
SPEAKER_01: My dad raised us from a point of one day at a time, sweet Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: So that we live one day at a time, and he wasn't a saver, he was just life will take care of itself.
SPEAKER_01: And that is how we grieve that knowing that God will sort us out.
SPEAKER_01: I have been able to inherit some of those habits of one day at a time, and I'm not careful to know, you know, planning of I need to invest so that in the event of misfortune in the future, do I lose my job?
SPEAKER_01: That might affect.
SPEAKER_01: So our background, our upbringing will define how we relate with money.
SPEAKER_01: Are we savers?
SPEAKER_01: Do we live one day at a time?
SPEAKER_01: Are we spenders?
SPEAKER_01: Are we just giving money freely without thinking through?
SPEAKER_01: Do we plan ahead?
SPEAKER_01: That is based on how we were raised, our culture, our family, our beliefs, how we were also taught in church is money evil and such like things.
SPEAKER_00: And and I'm also thinking, talking about that background, we could also have another extreme where maybe somebody comes from a family where then money was not an issue in terms of availability.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and so it it's what do you need?
SPEAKER_00: And you get it.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: How much of it do you need?
SPEAKER_00: And and you get it.
SPEAKER_00: And so then you can you can have your life also hooked, that your life depends on money.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think bringing an aspect that would inform our how we relate with money, it's bringing in God's perspective of money or bringing in maybe an aspect that is suggesting how does God relate with money himself or wealth.
SPEAKER_00: How does God relate in any way uh with money?
SPEAKER_00: And that then may inform how we also relate with this very important uh medium that facilitates life in every aspect.
SPEAKER_00: I have seen posters saying, you know, when money, when money, or rather, when poverty comes in through the door, love goes out through the window.
SPEAKER_00: And basically it's it's really talking about uh how money can uh can um uh impact even on those intimate relationships like marriage.
SPEAKER_00: There are three uh perspectives I would want to bring to this conversation about God and money.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the first one is found in uh the book of Haggai, chapter 2, verse 8, where the Bible just says very simply that the silver is mine, and mine here is God, and the gold is mine, says the Lord of hosts.
SPEAKER_00: The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the Lord of hosts.
SPEAKER_00: And and and to me, simply that means that money, wealth belongs to God.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, um there is a psalm that says the earth and the fullness thereof belongs to me.
SPEAKER_00: God says that, and then he says it says he owns kettle on a thousand hills.
SPEAKER_00: So so he he is wealthy, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: All right, first of all, when we think about wealth and when we think about money, we should think of it from that perspective that though money may be in the hands of the wrong people, money may be used for the wrong purpose, money may be acquired in the wrong way, money can be used to achieve the wrong motives, it doesn't stop being that wealth, silver, and gold belongs to our God, belongs to our father.
SPEAKER_01: And they're all but stewards.
SPEAKER_00: And then we are stewards, handling it at different perspectives.
SPEAKER_00: So that's the first one that actually money belongs to God.
SPEAKER_00: But secondly, there is another passage that uh that uh is also very interesting in Deuteronomy chapter 8, verse 18, it says that actually God is the one who gives us power, the power to make wealth, to make wealth, precisely, you know.
SPEAKER_00: So among the many things that God gives us, he gives us good health, he gives us a sound mind.
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that God gives us, and this is what that scripture says.
SPEAKER_00: It says, he says to the Israelites, it says, but remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and by doing so, he confirms his covenant, which he swore to your ancestors as it is today, because he had sworn to Abraham, he had sworn to Isaac, he had sworn to Jacob.
SPEAKER_00: And he told them that he's going to make them prosperous.
SPEAKER_00: And and and then now he's talking to the children of Israel and saying, as part of confirming that covenant, I have actually given you the ability and I give you.
SPEAKER_00: And now all these blessings of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob are in Christ.
SPEAKER_00: So that then for us who are in Christ, then we are also part of this.
SPEAKER_00: He gives us the power.
SPEAKER_00: He gives me the power, he gives all of us.
SPEAKER_00: Do you think those two perspectives can impact our relationship with money, how we relate with money?
SPEAKER_00: Precisely.
SPEAKER_00: As you said, right, all belongs to God.
SPEAKER_01: And so when you acknowledge the source, when you acknowledge the owner of this world, when you approach money, you approach it from a point of God, you're the giver.
SPEAKER_01: When you put your hands to work, and when money comes to you, you know, you'll handle it with, let me not say with fear and trembling, but you will handle it from a stewardship point.
SPEAKER_01: And when you're looking for that money, you don't look for it in this, you know, in this world.
SPEAKER_01: It is coming from God.
SPEAKER_01: And so when you acknowledge one, all wealth, and let me say in this perspective, all money belong to God.
SPEAKER_01: So you know the source.
SPEAKER_01: But number two, as you say, God is the one who gives us the ability to produce or to make that wealth.
SPEAKER_01: So that perspective and that foundation is very faithful.
SPEAKER_01: And it will redefine we Christians, how we relate with money.
SPEAKER_01: The money that is put in our hands are stewards, either in our assignments that we have been put in charge, but also in the money that has been given to us for our well-being.
SPEAKER_01: To our families, to us as individuals, to the people that we serve, be it in the ministry like you, Pastor Kennedy.
SPEAKER_01: Also for us, we're in the ministry, as much as we're in the marketplace, that is our marketplace.
SPEAKER_01: When I look at money, it will also actually define the difference between a Christian steward versus a person who is not a faithful steward of resources.
SPEAKER_00: And then thirdly, so so in terms of God, relating with money, relating with wealth, all belong to him.
SPEAKER_00: Secondly, he gives us the power, the ability to be able to make that money.
SPEAKER_00: And so we we need to have a relationship with him in that perspective.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: But the third thing I want to bring on board is that actually sorry, let me just put, let me just post on that.
SPEAKER_01: There's something that you said that was very important.
SPEAKER_01: As you say, as we relate with money, also we we now that also defines our relationship with God because he's a giver.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: So our relationship with money should reflect, should be a reflection.
SPEAKER_01: Let me say that.
SPEAKER_01: Not should reflect, should be a reflection of our relationship with God.
SPEAKER_00: And that, of course, underpins the point that money is not a by-the-way issue, even to our spiritual lives.
SPEAKER_00: We cannot say, now I am dealing with my being spiritual.
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, on Sunday when I come to church, I am dealing with my being spiritual, my my relating with God.
SPEAKER_00: But on Monday, as you said, in the marketplace, when I go to my business, now I am dealing with money.
SPEAKER_00: There is no separation.
SPEAKER_00: One reflects the other.
SPEAKER_00: As you have said, how I relate with money reflects how I relate with God.
SPEAKER_00: But I'm also seeing that how I relate with God informs how I relate with money.
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
SPEAKER_00: How I will be handling money, money matters around my life.
SPEAKER_01: And can I give you a corporate principle and not even a biblical principle?
SPEAKER_01: Go to all the tech and all the businesses that are in this world, the big companies that will be leading, they serve.
SPEAKER_01: Their principle is actually their serving.
SPEAKER_01: They are serving that customer, and then money comes as a as a as a as a byproduct of serving.
SPEAKER_01: Now, in that regard, even as Christians, whatever God has put us in charge of, is it in the entrepreneurship or whatever aspect of stewardship of money, it is not the money that I'm chasing.
SPEAKER_01: As I serve, as I serve diligently and as I as I produce and make that wealth, it is not the wealth that I'm looking for.
SPEAKER_01: It is service that I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01: It is the ministry that I'm serving, and money comes as I serve.
SPEAKER_01: So if I am a hotelier and I'm running that business, when I'm serving people, then I'm rewarded for that.
SPEAKER_01: If I am a pastor, as I serve, then the Lord will provide through the tithes.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: If I am an entrepreneur, when I serve the customers, and as I present a service offering, a product, and when the customer is so delighted, money comes.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: We should be serving in this marketplace, and money will be added unto us.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, a part of that scripture.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and all things, it says, and all things will be added even as we seek the kingdom.
SPEAKER_00: So the third thing, in terms of um, you know, God and money.
SPEAKER_00: God actually invites us to serve him with our wealth.
SPEAKER_00: He invites us to serve him.
SPEAKER_00: And and you can go to a number of uh, you know, uh scriptures, whether it is money now or in the old testament, the things that God had uh provided for his people and they would use as a medium in terms of um exchange and wealth.
SPEAKER_00: God is inviting us in the old testament.
SPEAKER_00: The famous scripture is Malachi 3.10, bring the whole tithe.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we have we have used that scripture.
SPEAKER_00: It's actually God inviting us that whatever he has given us, then in terms of wealth.
SPEAKER_00: Remember, he gave us the ability.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, he first of all owns, gives us the ability to make.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, then now he invites us to serve him, to serve him with what he belongs to him, and he has enabled us to produce or to make.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Again, when you come into the New Testament, we will talk about giving and uh you know, uh giving of our tithes, of our offering, giving generously to the work of God.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: We will talk about how the gospel can expand and how the gospel can reach many other people.
SPEAKER_00: It it's through the faithful, the faithful response of God's people to this invitation.
SPEAKER_00: Therefore, I actually need to have it, and it will be nothing wrong for me to desire to make.
SPEAKER_00: Make money, to make wealth.
SPEAKER_00: First of all, I'm not even desiring.
SPEAKER_00: The ability is already, you know, put in me, is already given by God for me to be able to make that wealth.
SPEAKER_00: And so then when we look at those three aspects, will this inform sort of a money, uh, what you may call a money archetype archetype for a believer or a blueprint where money is concerned for a Christian, the person who is listening to us, what then will they be looking at in terms of uh money in that perspective?
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Paci.
SPEAKER_01: To my to the audience that is listening to us, that is a call.
SPEAKER_01: And as as Paci has mentioned it, it is a call by God that we serve him through the gifts that he has given us or the resources of the money that is given us, in itself is an acknowledgement that it belongs to him.
SPEAKER_01: So that we do not make this wealth for our own satisfaction, but it is for the ministry of the body of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: So when we acknowledge in that call of Malachi 3.10, is it it's it's an invitation, not that God needs us.
SPEAKER_01: It is for us to remember that this money belongs to God.
SPEAKER_01: And he has invited us to multiply the wealth that he has given us so that it may be used for the ministry of the body of Christ, not for our self-satisfaction.
SPEAKER_01: And whenever we remember that, then our relationship again with money will define.
SPEAKER_01: And that calls to that various money archetypes.
SPEAKER_01: There is a saver, there is a person who is always looking to save.
SPEAKER_01: And as we said, our background will define Kama Nilikua from a very humble background around poverty.
SPEAKER_01: I might be constrained to think that my safety, my security is in holding enough money.
SPEAKER_01: And we allow money to control us and to feel like our safety and security and love or happiness is from this money.
SPEAKER_01: But you're reminded it still come from God.
SPEAKER_01: If you are a spender and you're spending every time, again you are being called by God.
SPEAKER_01: It is not for you to just spend that money.
SPEAKER_01: That money is for your faithfulness to the work of God.
SPEAKER_01: If you are a moneymaker again, those are the various archetypes I would want to focus on, control type.
SPEAKER_01: The saver is the person who is saving so that they find security and safety in that money.
SPEAKER_01: The spender is the one who is just spending, but they are reminded: bring your whole tights, bring this well for the ministry of the body of Christ.
SPEAKER_01: It's a moneymaker who is very busy.
SPEAKER_01: They find their joy in making money and looking for money and to hustle to bring money, and their lives is around their definition of joy is when they have worked so hard and they forget to be in the ministry of serving themselves, into knowing God more, serving their families, but also serving the community of God.
SPEAKER_00: Good.
SPEAKER_00: So remember that uh the money that is in the world, wherever it is, the wealth that is in the world, wherever it is, in whosoever's hands it is in belongs to God.
SPEAKER_00: Remember that uh God gives us the ability.
SPEAKER_00: He desires to give you the ability to make wealth.
SPEAKER_00: But also remember that he invites you to serve him with the wealth that he has given you and with the money that comes in your hands.
SPEAKER_00: As you serve your family, as you serve your neighbors, as you serve humanity, as you serve through the expansion of the gospel, God is inviting us to be part of this.
SPEAKER_00: This has been Connect, where we go beyond Sunday talking about money matters, relationship with money.
SPEAKER_00: And in the next episode, we will be talking about the stewardship of our money.
SPEAKER_00: And God is inviting us to be stewardship.
SPEAKER_00: Looking forward to interacting with you through the email that is provided below and also using the comment section.
SPEAKER_00: Reach out to us.
SPEAKER_00: Let us know what your thoughts are.
SPEAKER_00: Let us know how this program is blessing and ministering to you.
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, God bless you.