Have you ever felt the societal pressure to find your flawless 'soulmate'? Join us as we tackle the myths and truths about finding a life partner through a Christian lens. Together, we'll examine the cultural obsession with the soulmate ideal, scrutinize its biblical alignment, and consider whether prioritizing compatibility and commitment might be a more authentic approach. Our conversation ventures beyond surface-level attractions, diving into the significance of shared faith and the virtues that signify a desirable Christian partner, offering solace and insight for anyone navigating the complex world of relationships, from the single to the married.
As we navigate the intricacies of dating and faith compatibility, we share a collective wisdom on dating with intention, keeping your Christian values in the forefront. The discussion traverses the delicate balance between personal growth and the search for a partner who complements your journey, addressing the challenges young Christians may face in interfaith relationships and the importance of discussing faith early on. From how to handle the casual nature of modern dating to why personal issues such as loneliness should be addressed outside of your romantic life, our episode provides a road map for those seeking a meaningful connection that aligns with their beliefs and aspirations. Join us for a heartfelt exploration that promises to enrich your understanding of love and partnership in a Christian context.
Have you ever felt the societal pressure to find your flawless 'soulmate'? Join us as we tackle the myths and truths about finding a life partner through a Christian lens. Together, we'll examine the cultural obsession with the soulmate ideal, scrutinize its biblical alignment, and consider whether prioritizing compatibility and commitment might be a more authentic approach. Our conversation ventures beyond surface-level attractions, diving into the significance of shared faith and the virtues that signify a desirable Christian partner, offering solace and insight for anyone navigating the complex world of relationships, from the single to the married.
As we navigate the intricacies of dating and faith compatibility, we share a collective wisdom on dating with intention, keeping your Christian values in the forefront. The discussion traverses the delicate balance between personal growth and the search for a partner who complements your journey, addressing the challenges young Christians may face in interfaith relationships and the importance of discussing faith early on. From how to handle the casual nature of modern dating to why personal issues such as loneliness should be addressed outside of your romantic life, our episode provides a road map for those seeking a meaningful connection that aligns with their beliefs and aspirations. Join us for a heartfelt exploration that promises to enrich your understanding of love and partnership in a Christian context.
on today's episode.
Jeff Samelson:But then, as far as the looking at yourself, which is, I'd say, twice as important, how can I be the kind of man or the kind of woman that will be a good husband, will be a good wife, and there's so much in Scripture that says these are the things that should characterize you, the fruits of the Spirit, that you should be considerate, that you should be humble, that you should be looking out for the other and putting their interests ahead of your own, all of these kinds of things. The more you are a good Christian man or woman, the more you're going to attract a good Christian woman or man.
Paul Snamiska:Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources. People today face many opportunities and struggles when it comes to issues of life and death, marriage and family, health and science. We're here to bring a fresh biblical perspective to these issues and more. Join us now for Life Challenges.
Jeff Samelson:Hi and welcome back. I'm Christa Potratz and I'm here today with Pastors Bob Fleischman and Jeff Samelson, and today we're going to talk about something maybe a little different, maybe a little fun on the podcast here, but this idea of finding a mate or finding a soulmate, and we'll talk a little bit about, you know, culturally and just maybe ideas that we have with finding soulmates, and then also bringing the biblical perspective into it too. You know, what does the Bible say? What can we really think about as Christians too, on this topic? So you know, I guess, just my question for you guys first and I can see Jeff throwing this back at me too Would you say that most people think that there is a person for them, a soulmate, a spouse, someone that they'll end up with? Is that normal to kind of think about?
Jeff Samelson:Oh, I think it's normal, it's common. There's a definite cultural aspect to that Cause. If you grow up in a society where every marriage is arranged and it's not expected that you fall in love, get a match like that, the whole idea of a soulmate is going to be weird to you. But in our society, in our culture, that's what people want. They want somebody who's they've got that that great connection with and they're just a perfect match. But yeah it's, uh, it's definitely something that I think we need to give more thought to.
Jeff Samelson:Do you think, like our culture does have this idea, that there is then someone for everyone? I think that sometimes we kind of maybe think that or hear that. What would you kind of say to that idea?
Bob Fleischmann:Well, I can tell you, Dutch mothers think that way. My mother being from the Netherlands, her mantra has always been for every pot there's a lid.
Jeff Samelson:Who's the?
Jeff Samelson:pot and who's the lid? Yeah, that's what I mean.
Bob Fleischmann:That was always her big deal is that she thinks that there is a match for everyone out there and statistically that can't be possible because it's not a full balance unless you get into some sort of polygamous type of relationship. But we place an awful lot of emphasis in America on compatibility. You know attractiveness, intellectual, comparative things and so forth, and so in that sense it makes the search or the hunt somewhat fascinating. It starts when you're in school and you kind of like her or she kind of likes him, and you start asking the question why?
Bob Fleischmann:If you listen to Dr Ray Short from I think he's still alive from UW-Platteville when he wrote the book Love, sex or Infatuation, he just says basically those three forces are at work. But I think that changes also with time, the way you look at it. When you were younger, my daughter, my middle daughter, and I had a long conversation on that topic about how you felt about somebody back when you were in high school compared to how you feel about somebody when you're in your 40s and when you're in your 60s. Compatibility especially in American culture, I think compatibility is important because it's very, very strongly emphasized. I mean there's a lot of pressure to always be compatible pressure to always be compatible.
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, and I think that if you're trying to take a Christian perspective on this idea that, okay, there's one right one out there for me, and people will even say they'll bring God into it. They'll say, well, God's got that special someone for you, and I think that's part of the idea of the soulmate. They'll talk about a match made in heaven and first thing there is I challenge you to show me the passage in the Bible that teaches any of that but we all want that soulmate. But if you go back to Eden and remember this was before sin ever entered the picture it seems that God is more concerned with a suitable mate than with a soulmate. And that goes back to what Bob was talking about with compatibility. There can be somebody that you're really attracted to, but there's something that you just realize we could never live together, be constant conflict or stress or friction or whatever. Okay, you're not compatible, that's not a suitable match there.
Jeff Samelson:But at the same time, that's not a suitable match there, but, at the same time, suitable is a much lower level of connection than perfect, and a lot of the trouble that people get into when they get really frustrated I can't find the right one is they're setting themselves up with an impossible standard of this has to be a perfect match on every little category on my list, and they're never going to find that person that. So what about somebody, though, that hasn't found that? As a Christian, is there a tendency at all to think like, oh, there's something wrong with me? Or like, why doesn't God have a person for me? Or you know, if marriage is so great and we're like as Christians I mean supposed to continue the line, and with our children and just all these wonderful blessings that marriage brings, and I haven't found anyone? What would you say to somebody like that and struggling with some of those questions?
Jeff Samelson:Yeah well, is there something wrong with me, or is there something wrong that I don't have this mate? There's a yes and a no to that, because if you are in that situation I'm not talking about somebody who's 17 or 21, but if you're 29 or 35 or 41 or whatever, and you're saying, why can't I find somebody, you should be ready to ask yourself the question am I doing something wrong? Am I setting up impossible standards? Is there something wrong with my personality? Is there something that I should change about myself? And you should be honest about that? And you should probably find someone you trust, or a group of someones say, hey, be honest with me. Is there something that I should, should be changing?
Jeff Samelson:Cause that's the kind of question you have to ask directly, cause if people like you, they're usually not going to tell you straight out. But, at the same time, if you are, the mere fact that you're single and you don't want to be has no meaning by itself. Maybe you just haven't matched up with the right person yet that person just hasn't come along, gift that most Christians don't want, which is celibacy, and of course, the purpose of that is that you'll be more free to serve God, his church and your neighbor with the time and attention that you're not investing in a mate. But maybe the reason you're single it's actually God looking out for you. Maybe he's kept you from falling into a relationship that would be really bad for you and he's looked out for you in that way. So we should always be aware of thinking that certain circumstances are revealing some deep truth about God or his will for us or for the world.
Bob Fleischmann:We always seem to latch on to great desires that are frustrated. Always wanted the child. Why wouldn't God give me a?
Jeff Samelson:child.
Bob Fleischmann:I had a member of my congregation who was obsessed over wanting her own house, to own her house to the point where it almost superseded everything else. But you get, and then the same kind of the same line of questioning comes up. Is there something wrong with me that God would object? Why wouldn't God do it? And first of all, don't be so selfish. I mean, maybe it's not about you. Maybe the reason it doesn't happen to you has to do with somebody else that has a greater need that God is tending to. But we walk through life with certain bumper sticker promises that God's working all things out for our good and you walk that way.
Bob Fleischmann:But, like Jeff said, there's times where sometimes you are doing it. You want to find the perfect person, but you tend to be a homebody. You don't like going out to socialize. Well, if you don't meet somebody, you probably aren't going to fall in love. There are things that you can do to get yourself out there. The other thing I want to say on this topic is the worst part of a wedding and, truth be told, I'm not a big fan of weddings. I mean, I'm glad for my wedding but as a pastor, weddings always drive me crazy because people get more concerned about so many other peripheral matters. But the worst part of a wedding, seconded only by the dance if you ever saw me dance, you know why is the speeches? Because God has led me to you. It's just out of all the people 330 million people in America and God led me to you and of course I'm sitting there on my cynical side going. That's because all the others have been protected from you.
Jeff Samelson:God protected all the other ones from you.
Bob Fleischmann:People just have almost this fairy tale kind of imagination on relationships and so forth. We've gone through a stretch in our marriage here All of a sudden, for better or for worse, has been high on the plateau. I mean there's rough times, you know. There is no way that I imagined what that meant when Diane and I got married. There just isn't, you don't imagine. Maybe there's a few people who've gone through dealing with severe health issues with parents or a loved one or something like that.
Bob Fleischmann:But generally speaking, you are just clouded over with this wild imagination and I think part of it is in the quest for finding the mate. Don't overlook the one you have already, which is God. If you begin, kind of you make sure that that relationship is strong and then it helps you ride the roller coaster of the ups and downs of the hunt. And why do you need that? Because once you are married you're still on a roller coaster. I mean there's going to be good times and bad times, happy times, sad times I love you to death times I don't care for you that much right now times, and you weather those storms because your first relationship is strong.
Jeff Samelson:You know, another question here, too, to ask and, Bob, you kind of were talking about it too with the wedding and finding the one right person. But you know, is it right or realistic to think that God has one right person out there for you and that you should hold out for that perfect match? And even just asking this question too, I mean, I feel like this is what I thought when.
Jeff Samelson:I was in college too, was that there was one right person for me and I needed to find that person. And I mean, I had a very strong relationship with the Lord too even at that point in my life. And it was funny because, you know, early on in our relationship, talking to my husband when we were dating, he did not feel that way that there was one right person. I remember almost kind of being offended that he didn't feel that way, but I kind of did so when I asked this question too. I mean, I just kind of wanted to share both ends of that perspective with it.
Bob Fleischmann:I think next week we need him on. Yeah.
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, and I'm guessing that you know I'm not asking you to do this live, but you know that if right now you were able to go back and like, compare the marriage that you have you know your husband as you know him now to the list of things that you had in mind that would have made for the perfect mate you know, back when you were in college, you'd probably notice there's some differences there, and I'm not suggesting that they're bad differences or whatever, but it would reflect the fact that, wow, you've learned things over the years about what is negotiable, what's non-negotiable, what's important, what's not important and what things just are, and there's nothing you can do about it, and that's you know.
Jeff Samelson:The danger of holding out for Mr or Ms Perfect is that you know you're holding onto standards that really don't matter, or that you're putting, you know, getting things totally out of perspective or the things that just long-term, aren't going to make that much of a difference.
Jeff Samelson:I do like, though I mean when we talk about standards and holding on to things. I think there is room, though, in the discussion to say that there are some things that probably should be non-negotiable.
Jeff Samelson:Absolutely as for a Christian too, probably should be non-negotiable. As for a Christian, too, I feel very strongly, just kind of having gone through life these 40 years now. But you know, I do feel like one of the most important decisions that you will ever make in your life is who you marry, and I just I feel very strongly with that and I want to say that to my children every day, but I don't want them to resent me and like, but I just I mean, I've seen so many people make concessions on faith and have seen just that deteriorate a relationship or when kids come in, you know, and now we have these differences rate of relationship, or when kids come in, you know, and now we have these differences. And so I do think it is important to state that when you are a Christian and thinking about who you're marrying, to be aware that there are some things that were high standards are really important.
Bob Fleischmann:Pete. It was easy to fall for Diane because she had a far more exemplary faith than I did. She was all through Christian grade school, christian high school. She was in the first class at WLC. Her Bible was all marked up and anybody who knows me knows I don't take notes and her Bible was like one giant note. I mean she had things down the margin and everything so very strong. I mean she had things down the margin and everything so very strong.
Bob Fleischmann:And so I think a lot of times when you're looking for someone, quite honestly it's a selfish quest because you're looking for someone who's going to make you feel better about life, better about yourself, better about the path you're going. I think there are things you don't compromise on, like our faith. I've always been amazed at people who say, well, we'll deal with the religion thing later. When your relationship with God is the most important, then other things kind of fall into place. When it's not most important, you have what St Augustine called disordered love, and so I think that's a big issue. The other thing that I think I would emphasize is the strong effect of hormones and the strong effect of emotion. I always tell everybody the little things that bother you now when you're dating, are going to aggravate the daylights out of you after you're married, because right now you're kind of infatuated a little bit. Okay, well, so they don't always brush their hair or they don't always trim their beard or they don't whatever it is. You kind of look past it and then after a while it becomes kind of get on you a little bit.
Bob Fleischmann:But I will tell you, when crises come into your life different crises dealing with the children, dealing with each other and so forth all of a sudden those high and low points aren't as critical.
Bob Fleischmann:In other words, don't attach your wig into something that's so emotionally a variable. I can only speak from the perspective of going through extreme health crisis now, and there are times when Diane would say to me well, I don't sure look like much anymore, do I? Because through this procedure she had to have her head shaved and all that kind of stuff and everything. And all of a sudden you realize I didn't marry you for your hair, it wasn't infatuation, and yet that was part of it when you got married. So the things that you love and the things that attract you change over time and the stability that carries you through are pretty much the common stabilities that brought you into the relationship, but most of all, at least from my experience, is the allegiance to God, and if you start there the other pieces kind of they do fall into place, but sometimes you don't see it for a number of years.
Jeff Samelson:As a pastor in parish, I always wished that. I mean, you get the kids for catechism class and so you get to teach them up until they're 13 or 14. I always thought that it would be so nice to be able to get them back when they're about 18 or 19, like before they go off to college or out into the world and again maybe around 22 or 23,. To just reinforce this message of having a shared faith is important, so frustrating, and it happens so many times. What Bob was talking about we'll work out the religion thing later. They come to the pastor and it's like, okay, well, we're going to get married, you know, and we're so excited. And well, yeah, I'm a Wells Lutheran and he's anything else, you know, whatever it might be, and it's like they've hardly given it any thought and the time to have the conversation about this is my faith. This is what matters. How about you? What matters to you? What's it going to mean practically? What are our Sunday mornings going to look like after we get married? Those are the conversations you should be having and resolving before the proposal is ever made or accepted.
Jeff Samelson:And yet instead people and again what Bob mentioned earlier about hormones and emotions you know, you get caught up in this relationship and you almost get into cruise control on this and just like, okay, well, obviously the next place we're going is engagement and then, after that, marriage. And still, for a lot of people you know, even Christians, there's the in-between step there of living together, which is not something Christians should be considering. But anyway, they just kind of cruise into it and they've never really given the thought to how is this going to work in terms of a match of faiths. And that is the most important thing. And the sad thing again is, when you're serving as a pastor, all the people who come to you after five, 10, 15, 50 years of marriage, and when it's not a match of faith and they talk about the problems that that has caused, the frictions, the tensions or, what's most common, the things they can't share with each other because they don't share a common faith.
Jeff Samelson:Right, you know, when you're talking to and talking about dating. In our culture today too, dating is viewed as a very casual type of thing, and I think what often happens for people is that they go through this really casual thing and then things start to get serious. But in the maybe the earlier phase of the dating, instead of viewing that as okay, this is, I'm trying to see like if somebody is going to be compatible. For me it is just all about having fun and you know, and the emotions ride. And so then it's like all of a sudden, maybe for some people they're in now this more long term relationship with somebody that maybe doesn't share the same faith with, because, like how you were saying it, just like there's this progression that you just didn't even realize, kind of what was happening during it.
Jeff Samelson:And so in our Lutheran circles I mean, we don't really maybe do this like whole idea of courtship. You know, like some religions kind of view more like dating to kind of give it more of this formal name with this idea that really you know you should be looking at that for marriage. But you know, what would your advice be to somebody who is entering that dating world and as a Christian wanting to have fun, but then I mean, what would your advice be to kind of navigate that type of in culture and atmosphere today?
Bob Fleischmann:Well, I think, first of all, I think you've got to come to grips with the hole that you're looking to fill, and most of us here can only speak anecdotally, based on our own experience. But in counseling that I've done with couples and so forth and couples and individuals who are frustrated that they can't find the right person or something like that, is when you understand what you're looking for and then you try to manage that without finding the spouse. Like for me, loneliness. I'm not a good alone person, never was, and marriage was wonderful because I wasn't alone. So it would mean going through and dealing with this issue of loneliness.
Bob Fleischmann:One of the problems I hear a lot from people is when you get out of high school and you get into college and so forth, all of a sudden all your friends and let's assume you share relatively the same value that's why you were friends, so you don't have as much living together, all that kind of stuff, as maybe other people do. But your friends are all of a sudden they're all hitched, they're all married and you're beginning to feel like the last one, and so I probably that's one of the most common things I've encountered is this feeling like somehow I missed the boat. They're all happily married, they're having children and I don't even have someone yet. I think sometimes it might help to just kind of parcel out where your angst is and then deal with that issue. You know, if you have a good, strong network of friends, you still have that companionship and so forth.
Bob Fleischmann:You know, life gets complicated when you're missing the sexual part of it, or if you're missing going on long trips or something like that. Let's just deal with it on the simple level, and that is, if loneliness is the issue, then deal with the loneliness, but don't deal with it as if dating is going to be the solution. Find another solution for it and it takes the pressure off of dating. Dating out of desperation, I think, never works. A desperate attitude when you're dating has you settling for things. That not that I want you to be a perfectionist, but you don't want to settle for things just because your problem was loneliness and you found somebody who wasn't going to make you lonely.
Jeff Samelson:I'd say the ideal when you're approaching dating long. I'd say the ideal when you're approaching dating, whether you're starting in high school or later, is you should never date anyone that you couldn't see as a possible spouse. That's the ideal. So it's going to be somebody who's already a Christian, preferably the same kind of Christian and everything. But realistically, if you are going out into the dating world, you're going to be attracted to people or ask people out on a date, or be asked on a date by someone that you don't actually know that much about, and people will say well, that's the whole purpose of the dating is to get to know each other better. So I'll give a practical piece of advice here is make sure that the first dates you go on whether it's the first three, if that's all it takes, or the first 30, if that's more are dates where you can actually get to know each other.
Jeff Samelson:If you're just going to a movie or a concert or a play or something like that, you're spending time together but you're not actually finding anything out about the other person. So do the dinner dates, do the walk in the park or something like that where you can talk and actually get to know each other, so that maybe by date number four you're realizing yeah, no, we're just not on the same wavelength here and you're not committed, you're not deep into anything. But when your initial dates are all on just the spending time together, it's very easy to get sidetracked into the physical aspect of it. Boy, it's nice to have somebody on my arm. Boy, it's nice to have somebody to kiss. Boy, I'd really like to be doing something more here. And boy, does that sidetrack your search for a proper Christian mate?
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, and then kind of just thinking, thinking to kind of coming full circle again here to does the Bible at all give any kind of rules or instructions on how to find a mate? I mean, I know we've talked about some of the things that the Bible doesn't say, but what does the Bible say, or what are some important things from scripture then that we should be thinking about with this topic?
Jeff Samelson:Well, it would really be nice if there were a chapter or two that just laid out, okay, this is what you, as a believer, look for. But it's not that I will say. There is one book of the Bible that is helpful, I'd say particularly for young Christian men, and that's actually the book of Proverbs. Not just the stuff it says about avoiding the adulterous, but there's a lot in there, particularly the last chapter of Proverbs, 31, about the ideal wife. Well, you read that and you say, okay, this is the kind of woman I should be looking for, and there's a lot in there that's very practical advice, and much of Proverbs was Solomon's advice to his sons or whatever. But more generally, certainly, look at the passages like Ephesians 5 and Colossians 4 that talk about marriage and think, okay, well, this is the ideal that I'm looking for. So how do I find somebody who matches that?
Jeff Samelson:But then, as far as the looking at yourself, which is, I'd say, twice as important, how can I be the kind of man or the kind of woman that will be a good husband, will be a good wife, and there's so much in scripture that says these are the things that should characterize you, the fruits of the Spirit, that you should be considerate, that you should be humble, that you should be looking out for the other and putting their interests ahead of your own All of these kinds of things. The more you are a good Christian man or woman, the more you're going to attract a good Christian woman or man. You want that to be out there. You want that to be what identifies you, so that then it's perfectly natural that the person you end up with is somebody who's identified the same way.
Bob Fleischmann:I always tell everybody you can't change them, but you can change you. And when you look at the standards that are applied for us in Scripture and you look at that, you might say, if I'm dating her and well, she's not quite this, she's not quite that and everything, why don't we start with you? Where are you? And one of the things, keller, tim Keller, who's a favorite Presbyterian preacher of mine. He wrote two books. One is called Counterfeit Gods and the other one he wrote with his wife on the meaning of marriage, and you can see him talk about these things in YouTube clips and stuff online. But one of the things that's interesting is like he talks about you know, I know if I were in high school and somehow I was listening to this podcast and I'm somehow going to get some sort of help in my dating life and all we got are these old people telling us to you know, believe in God.
Jeff Samelson:Who are you calling old?
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah. But I mean, you know, believe in God, you know that kind of stuff. Keller in Counterfeit Gods. He talks about one of the dangers you make and that is, you know, when you're living for life in the world, you tend to really start venerating things. It could be your career, could be your children, but oftentimes it might be your spouse.
Bob Fleischmann:When you get into that disordered love where God isn't first and your spouse is, you allow time to happen and you allow the reality that there's a sinful nature that's always warring against you. There's going to be tension, there's going to be a problem and so forth. And all of a sudden this ideal center of my life, I'm going to say wonderful things at our wedding, all that kind of stuff. All of a sudden it doesn't matter and it's because you were fixated on the wrong thing. It doesn't mean you can't fixate on that. A husband loves his wife as Christ loved the church, I know. But you look at the standard. What did the standard? What does that relationship mean? And then you apply it to the relationship you find with others. And in high school I wanted to date her because I liked the way she looked, I liked the way she smiled, I liked the nice things. She said everything that would not have sustained a relationship, but it was a great thought at the time and you got to remember that that that changes.
Jeff Samelson:Well, thank you both for this discussion today. I feel like there's a lot of good information here and just encourage our listeners that if you do know somebody going through the dating world now you know, share this podcast with them. You can reach out to us at lifechallengesus. Thanks a lot and we'll see you back next time. Bye.
Paul Snamiska:Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it and sharing it with friends. We're sure you have questions on today's topic or other life issues. Our goal is to help you through these tough topics and we want you to know we're here to help. You can submit your questions, as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes, at lifechallengesus or email us at podcast at christianliferesourcescom. In addition to the podcasts, we include other valuable information at lifechallengesus, so be sure to check it out. For more about our parent organization, please visit ChristianLifeResourcescom. May God give you wisdom, love, strength and peace in Christ for every life challenge.