The Life Challenges Podcast
The Life Challenges Podcast
Empowering Communities to Combat Trafficking: An Interview with Tracy Scheffler (Part One)
Discover the unsettling truths about sex trafficking with our special guest, Tracy Scheffler from 5-Stones Dodge County. Tracy takes us on an eye-opening journey, challenging the myths often perpetuated by Hollywood and shining a light on the harsh realities of trafficking that are frequently overlooked, especially in rural areas. Her personal experiences and deep commitment to this cause provide unique insights into the tactics traffickers use and underscore the critical importance of education in prevention.
We confront the misconceptions surrounding human trafficking, particularly those that exist within conservative religious communities. It's a stark reminder that this is not just an urban issue or a plotline from a blockbuster movie but a reality that can affect any neighborhood. Through the work of organizations like 5-Stones, we explore how awareness, education, and collaboration can be powerful tools in combating trafficking. Our discussion includes the changing landscape of trafficking, influenced by technology and social media, and stresses the necessity of teaching our children to navigate these dangers safely.
Rural communities often feel insulated from the threats of trafficking, yet these areas can be prime targets due to anonymity. We reveal the deceptive relationships traffickers forge to control their victims and emphasize the need for awareness in all communities to fight this growing problem. As we look at the emotional challenges of exposing these harsh realities, we also offer hope and strategies for prevention and recovery. Stay tuned for the next part of our series, where we'll dive deeper into how online activities and pornography intersect with sex trafficking.
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5-Stones Dodge County: https://www.5-stonesdodgecounty.org/
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On today's episode we firmly believe that education really does lead to prevention, and so when you know something, then your antenna is going to go up, and even our kids knowing things makes their antennas go up, right, sometimes we have to sacrifice the innocence to keep them and ourselves protected, so that we have enough information that will set off our antennas if something doesn't feel quite right, and so we just really stand strongly on education which leads to prevention.
Paul Snamiska:Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources. People today face many opportunities and struggles when it comes to issues of life and death, marriage and family, health and science. We're here to bring a fresh biblical perspective to these issues and more. Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz:Hi everyone, it's Krista Potritz. I am coming to you today to let you know that the first time in our podcast history here, the Life Challenges podcast we are going to give you a two-part episode. January is Sex Trafficking Awareness Month and so, because we wanted to talk about this topic, we sat down with Tracy Scheffler of Five Stones, dodge County, and Bob and I sat down with her for about an hour and talked to her and when we got done with our conversation her and when we got done with our conversation we just realized that it wasn't an episode that we wanted to try to cut down into a 35-minute episode. It was such a I mean, I want to say good episode, but the topic is really serious. But we just really covered a lot of great information and wanted to be able to share that all with you. So we are going to divide this episode into two parts. The first part that we're going to share with you this week Tracy defines sex trafficking, talks about how she got into her position at Five Stones, what Five Stones at Dodge County does and really outlining the problem, especially that what we see too in rural areas. It's a really great, eye-opening conversation and we look forward to bringing you the second half next week, and so, without any further ado, here is our conversation on sex trafficking.
Christa Potratz:Hi and welcome back. Today we have a special guest with us. We have Tracy Scheffler. Some of you might remember her. She was a speaker at the Christian Life Resources National Convention 2023. It was wonderful to hear you speak then, and then we also had a mini version of you on the podcast too that day. But today we really just wanted to expand and talk. It has been over a year since we've caught up with you and so welcome. We're just really excited to have you today.
Tracy Scheffler:Thank you. Thank you very much, both of you, for having me. I'm excited to talk a little more about our topic at hand and have a little more time, and also to be in this amazing basement Bob's basement.
Christa Potratz:I know, yes, yes, For those of you that don't know or don't remember, Bob has his basement decked out as a 1930s ice cream parlor here general store. It's really, it's. Yeah, it's quite a treat to be at it. Well, Tracy, can you start just giving us a little background again about yourself and how you got into the organization that you currently run?
Tracy Scheffler:Certainly. I've been in Wisconsin for 21 years now and at some point I was running a Safe Schools Healthy Students grant for the school that my children all went to. I have four children and they all went to Dodgeland in Juneau, wisconsin, and so I was the facilitator for Dodgeland School and I brought in a speaker and she did an assembly and we became friends after that and I just happened to ask her one time when we were out having coffee what she was doing on the weekend and she was from Appleton and she said well, I'm going to a showing of Nefarious. It's a documentary. I had never heard of it, I had no idea what that was about. So I asked her some questions and she said it's touring in bigger cities because you had to be able to get a certain amount of people to come to the theater. So I knew Beaver Dam was out, the big city of Appleton, the documentary, which immediately took me to a site and an organization called Exodus Cry, because they put the documentary out, they created it, it was a documentarian, benjamin Nolet, and it was an award-winning documentary, and so I'm reading about it and I'm reading about Exodus Cry and it's all about trafficking, sex trafficking in particular when I look back on that moment.
Tracy Scheffler:I was actually in my office at the school off hours and I just felt myself being completely drawn in and just getting closer and closer to the computer screen and in disbelief about what's happening with trafficking. Because at that point my only education about sex trafficking was the movie Taken with Liam Neeson, which I think is probably a lot of people's truth and journey, and some people probably are still there where that's what they know. And so as I was reading about it, I just couldn't help but feel that it was scratching an itch that I really didn't know I had, and so I became completely a little bit obsessed about it. And I read about the when, when, because I couldn't get to a local theater to see it. When would I be able to see it otherwise or purchase it? And so we waited for it to. I waited for it to stop touring, at which point I could purchase it with like a showing license.
Tracy Scheffler:And I approached my church at the time Harvest Church, and asked can we do a community event here and show Nefarious? And they allowed that and, honestly, at the end of that night we took up an offering for Exodus Cry. We took up an offering for Five Stones, appleton, fox Valley, and I had a little clipboard with a sheet of paper and a pen saying if anybody wants to kind of dig more deeply into maybe getting a group together that fights trafficking you know, let me know. And so I end up with a list of about 10. And I remember at that time thinking this will just be as small or as big as we want it to be, no big deal.
Tracy Scheffler:And my other takeaway that night was that the greater offering was in the five stones basket, which, honestly, people had never heard of five stones before that night. But what we did know was that Exodus Cry created the movie that we were all there to see, and it was a fairly well attended event for something that was basically unknown. But people gave to Five Stones more than Exodus Cry, and what I learned from that was that the community and people like a local connection to whatever they're becoming or about to become passionate about, and so that's what kicked us off. Some of those members of those first 10 are still with us almost 12 years later.
Christa Potratz:Wow, Wow, you know I'd love to hear about Five Stones and you can kind of walk us through a little bit about that organization. But maybe first can you just describe human trafficking and sex trafficking, just for all of us to really understand what it is.
Bob Fleischmann:And to get us out of the taken movie and into reality.
Tracy Scheffler:You know, the version of trafficking and taken does happen, but by far it's not the higher percentage of how trafficking is happening. And then further, by far it's really not how it's happening here in rural America, in the Midwest and so middle America. And so human trafficking can include sex trafficking and labor trafficking, sex trafficking and labor trafficking. And so when we say labor trafficking, that's someone's being forced to work either for nothing or for a very small wage, by force, fraud or coercion, and then with sex trafficking we're talking about a commercial sex act being induced by force, fraud or coercion. So human trafficking can encompass both of those. And sometimes labor and sex trafficking is happening at the same time to the same victim and sometimes they're happening separately.
Tracy Scheffler:So Five Stones Dodge County deals and Five Stones Appleton, fox Valley, who is our kind of our parent organization. We deal specifically with sex trafficking, with fighting sex trafficking. We deal specifically with sex trafficking, with fighting sex trafficking. So when we talk about force, we're talking about physical violence, rape, gang rape. When we talk about fraud, we're talking about lies, false promises, counterfeit relationships where the trafficker knows it's fake but the victim thinks it's real and or coercion, such as fear tactics or threats, emotional manipulation, just a terrible way to exist.
Bob Fleischmann:I think the biggest challenge and this was the eye-opener for me when you spoke at our convention was rural America. You know, when I was assigned out of the seminary in 1983, I was certainly aware of demon worship and all that kind of stuff. And here we had a problem in our rural community where I was serving and I remember the police had invited me to consult a little bit on some things that they had found in the woods and that kind of stuff. And I just remember I was stunned in the woods and that kind of stuff. And I just remember I was stunned. And then the second stunning occurred a number of years later when I discovered the drug problem in rural America. Because again, your view is formed by television, so you think it's the hardcore inner city. That's where the drug problem is.
Bob Fleischmann:And they were reported in rural America. And then you know I was faith in giggles. You know the folks there. I'm familiar with human trafficking concerns because I've talked with them about it.
Tracy Scheffler:Wendy and Jason Yep, faith and Giggles Go to that store. It's amazing.
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah, yes, it's a good plug. Everyone should go there. But again, I never really it never processed as real until you spoke about it, and I think that one of the problems that we have in our conservative religious circles and so forth is we have a tendency to always look at that as it's a shame they can't be like us. You would know that. You know, if you were like us, you'd be on top of your game, it wouldn't be a problem. And the reality is it's happening in our backyards, it's happening in our neighborhoods and at first, you know, when, truth be told, when I first heard that you were going to be talking about that at our convention, it was kind of like, okay, you know, she'll kind of create the crisis. That isn't there, you know, and that kind of thing. And absolutely wrong. I was absolutely wrong and we need to grasp that. You know, this is not a Hollywood production caliber issue.
Bob Fleischmann:The caliber issue is backyard.
Tracy Scheffler:We always say you don't know until you know, because some people say I feel so, so bad, I didn't know. And well, we didn't know until we knew either. And then the other thing is that the depravity of man is everywhere. It's in the cities, it's in the rural, it's in other countries, it's in our country. And as Christians not that we are a secular group, but I myself am a Christian and we, of all people, should know that the depravity of man is functioning everywhere and it's alive and well in this world.
Bob Fleischmann:I always said that after the flood, noah created the altar and the fragrance ran up and God said okay, put this rainbow in the sky. I'm not going to do a great flood like that ever again, even though and that's how the passage reads even though every inclination of man's heart is evil. And so you read that and you're going yeah yeah, look at all those evil people.
Bob Fleischmann:No, no, every inclination of man's heart. If I have a heart, it's evil, it's going to have that, and the Apostle Paul talks about it. So you got to realize that these are our problems, not their problems.
Tracy Scheffler:Correct yeah, yeah, and if we don't deal with them they very quickly will become our problems or our kids' problems.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, yeah. So how does Five Stones then tackle the problem here in our area as well.
Tracy Scheffler:Yeah, our five stones are awareness, education, prevention, collaboration and networking, and that is exactly what we've been doing for 12 years and it's what we continue to do, and so we firmly believe that education really does lead to prevention. And so when you know something, then your antenna is going to go up, and even our kids knowing things makes their antennas go up. Right, sometimes we have to sacrifice the innocence to keep them and ourselves protected so that we have enough information that will set off our antennas if something doesn't feel quite right. And so we just really stand strongly on education, which leads to prevention. And then we love networking, because we didn't create the wheel and we don't have to recreate it, you know. So we really do connect with a lot of excellent, excellent organizations that are also in the fight against trafficking.
Christa Potratz:I still remember when you spoke at the convention. One of the things that really stayed with me was when you went through the grooming process of how that was horrifying.
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah, we're going to talk about it again now, bob.
Tracy Scheffler:Well, I think what's horrifying about it is how simple it is.
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah, you know.
Tracy Scheffler:I think we'd like to think that it's just a mastermind. You know that certainly would take a long time and it really isn't. The simplicity of it is what's horrifying about it.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, and I think too. I mean you said, I mean it's not, I mean it can be, but it's not necessarily a creepy man in a van that is doing this. Can you go a little bit more into detail of what these people can be and look like and what our children and ourselves should know?
Tracy Scheffler:Sure so, and it's changing as we speak, because of technology, because of social media, because of AI. So, even from that talk a year ago, our attention is changing towards how is AI affecting how a predator works, how a trafficker works? But overall, the the issue is still the same. The issue is still someone who wants to exploit children or youth or men or women, and how they can connect with potential victims. The process is called grooming, and so you're taking your potential victim, you're setting your sights on someone, which, again, is why education is so important, because I always told my kids I'm going to give you just enough information that a predator doesn't tag onto you in a room full of people. They're going to see something in you that has some knowledge and isn't going to be their potential victim. And so the top three ways that traffickers are getting at their victims right now is number one social media. So that's really something that we need to look deeply into. And boy is that tricky, because it's ever-growing, it's ever-changing. Nobody really has a firm grasp on it, so traffickers will utilize every little glitch and hole that they can find. The number two way is still our neighborhood, so traffickers are still going to the places that our kids go. And then the third way is peers, which is a little more complex, but two out of three victims are gotten off of social media. So we really need to be paying attention to that, which is an area that we, as Five Stones, are starting to go more deeply into, create different presentations for, whether it's online or whether it's in our neighborhoods, in person, at a coffee shop, at a mall, at a park the process is still similar. Or even a chat room or a gaming room, the process is still who is showing a vulnerability that I can step into and take advantage of? Who lacks self-confidence, who is angry, who seems a little lost, who seems like they could be a runaway or I could get them to be a runaway. So, whether that's in person or online, you're still looking for those vulnerabilities to take advantage of, and then you get to play as the trafficker kind of the hero or the friend or potential boyfriend or potential girlfriend or potential mom figure.
Tracy Scheffler:There's a lot of ways to step into the life of a youth or even an adult, honestly. I mean, we all know people and we are those people, sometimes when we're in the middle of something where we can be caught a little more easily. Our guard is down right. And so imagine with children, with kids and with youth. The average age that youth is trafficked is 12 to 14. Someone like that can be tricked or trapped just from that. I mean middle school, that's when we have the greatest vulnerabilities, probably mostly overall in our lives, and so they will kind of step into whatever the issue is.
Tracy Scheffler:And then thank you for remembering what I said about it's not necessarily going to be the creepy guy in the alley, and a lot of traffickers are hardened individuals who would set off some signals. So those traffickers use spotters, beautiful people, attractive men and women in their 20s to start these conversations with people. And boy, the idea of geeky old me getting a really cute older boyfriend like that, well, that's going to make me popular. Or if I'm a boy and I'm going to have this sexy, attractive woman. So there are a lot of different ways.
Tracy Scheffler:There's a world of hurt out there. There are people whose parents have deeply disappointed them and so they would fall into someone who presents as a mother figure, or even a man who's. You know, I'll take care of you, I'll provide for you, I'll give you shelter and meals. It's not that hard.
Tracy Scheffler:And if it's happening online, these traffickers can present as whoever they want. It doesn't matter if they're scary looking, because they can present as a 16-year-old to a 16-year-old in a chat room or in a game room. They can be whatever they need to be and they are studiers of human behavior, so they do know how to connect with different age groups. And then AI is simplifying it. All you have to do is AI tell me what the trending topics and words and slang is for 16-year-olds, or create a conversation. They barely have to even do the work anymore.
Tracy Scheffler:And so once a trafficker can start to take you through that process and see that you are stepping into it with them, that you're not someone who is already educated who might say something's not right here I'm backing out then they will start to make those false promises, create that false relationship, fill that need and be very charming and affectionate and, like I said, get to be the hero, and then things will start to change. They'll start to isolate that child. They'll start to help that youth or person, to start to move other people out of their lives. We don't want family speaking into your life. We don't want friends. I want to be the one speaking into your ear, an angry episode will begin that startles the victim, or the potential victim, into doing something that they wouldn't normally do to keep this person in their life. And if you can get your victim through that process, then it's just maintaining control with those threats and violence and that life of fear of 24-7.
Bob Fleischmann:Now my first observation is that nothing she has said is exclusive to urban or rural. In other words, you have this. You know, I've pastored in cities, I've pastored in the country and you encounter those same emotional challenges with all sorts of people, with all sorts of people. But also the other thing that I think presents a new challenge, even in the year little over a year that you were at our convention is just the growing weirdness going on with sexuality and stuff like that it just seems to.
Bob Fleischmann:first of all, depending on which philosopher you're listening to, it's sometimes called third world morality which is third world morality is this idea that I don't align myself with any type of base morality. It's what I feel those of us who've worked with middle school kids. That's really what's going on at that time. They're beginning to spread their wings. They're beginning to say well, I should be able to decide, it's my choice.
Tracy Scheffler:Create your own adventure.
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah, and that's a real challenge. The other thing too is and I wrestle with this because I wrestle with this in advice that I give to young people and that is you know dating to some degree. You know dating to some degree. I mean just good, bona fide, good, down-to-earth dating does involve targeting someone and saying I kind of like her, you know, so I'm going to kind of watch what interests her or not interests her. So I don't think anything that you're saying is saying well, we can't date Right, but it's—.
Tracy Scheffler:It's the difference between a normal human being, a healthy human being, a healthy classmate and a predator. You're both trying to learn someone with different purposes.
Bob Fleischmann:To me that's key. If you remember the different purposes, you know a lot of the people who are going to be listening to this podcast Christian-based have again a second-world morality, an objective, solid foundation. Just remember the person that you might be looking at may not be dealing with those same standards.
Tracy Scheffler:Right right.
Bob Fleischmann:That's hard to imagine because back when I vickered—we're talking 1981-82, worked in a congregation—Ray Short, who I think is still alive, was a psychologist. He's retired now out of western Wisconsin, but he came out with a book called Sex, Love or Infatuation and I remember him speaking. I sat in on his address to the high school audience. I was frightened after hearing him because all of a sudden you realize you got married for all the wrong reasons. You know, but what's happened today with trafficking is that's taken up to the next level, that very concerning level.
Tracy Scheffler:Well, it's taking something that God meant to be beautiful and has turned it into something horrifying and back to, kind of that, create your own adventure. It's not a coincidence that the reason that the number of boys being trafficked is just massively growing to almost equal girls being trafficked, which was not the case 12 years ago when we started. So it really has rapidly grown, and everyone I speak to in every conference I attend points to the LGBTQ community creating a lot of the risk factors for boys. I agree, and it's been in the news lately too you know, with high Abercrombie Finch.
Tracy Scheffler:Yes, yeah.
Bob Fleischmann:That whole controversy there? What was going on? Because? Why? Because you're attractive, you're handsome, you're going to make a good model and all of a sudden, you found yourself being used.
Tracy Scheffler:Right right.
Bob Fleischmann:Now can I ask you and I don't know to what degree we can be specific or not specific, but I want to make sure that people understand. First of all, everybody knows this is recorded in my basement and I live in rural Washington County, which is adjacent to Dodge County and give me an example, or give us an example, of how this happens in a rural setting, so that everybody realizes this is talking about us?
Tracy Scheffler:There's several directions I could go, which says something in itself, doesn't it, that I don't just have one example of how this happens rurally, but I want to mention, before I forget to mention, because I do think there's comfort for we rural inhabitants to think that this is a big city problem, inhabitants to think that this is a big city problem. And so, yes, trafficking is happening in the cities Milwaukee, madison. It even looks different between Milwaukee and Madison when we speak with law enforcement about it, but the reality is, in those big cities there's a lot of competition for traffickers, right? So they kind of create their domains and they know who the other people are, who have their domains and don't step on each other's toes. If you're in the rural areas, you can potentially be the trafficker, which means you're the go-to person for anybody from the area, or for people who want to get out of their own area to be more anonymous area, or for people who want to get out of their own area to be more anonymous. And furthermore, you can charge exorbitant prices because you're the only opportunity for buyers who are percentage-wise more likely to be men but absolutely can also be women.
Tracy Scheffler:And so I think in rural America what we see more of and what we hear more of is that kind of false relationship scenario where a youth thinks that they're entering into a relationship with a cute boyfriend or a little bit older sexy girl or kind of that mother figure and then at some point that switch is flipped and you realize too late that you're knee deep in something that you didn't realize.
Tracy Scheffler:And so there are active organizations, organized homes, where people who have gotten through that grooming process end up kind of dumped in these homes where they're going to not be released and they're trafficked out of those homes. They are here, I know they are here. We work with rescued individuals who are in recovery and we hear what took place for them, place for them. And so you know I hate to be the bearer of bad news. When I speak before a group and when I spoke before your group at your conference and I'm driving to these places, there is always a part of me that feels apologetic for what I'm about to do, to kind of destroy your trust in humanity, burden you with what we know. And yet that's the only way through it. I firmly believe it, because it is happening in our communities and we have to release that false narrative that I understand why we all believed it, or believe it that we are safe in our little rural communities because we're not in the big cities.
Bob Fleischmann:If anybody knows about the history of Christian Life Resources, we've been operating pregnancy care centers since the late 1970s and some of our centers are in the Chicago area, milwaukee area. You know big city areas but some of our centers are not. Some of our centers are in more rural-type settings and all of our centers, at one time or another over the years, have reported about getting women coming in, feeling basically captive to a lifestyle and a circumstance and they don't know how to get out of it. You know again, when you spoke last October it was such a year ago, 23 October it was such an eye-opener for me, a reminder to me that this is a big, big issue and a real issue.
Tracy Scheffler:A lot of victims don't even have the knowledge to even understand what is happening to them. A lot of victims think I've made some decisions that have gotten me into this mess and it's my fault and now I'm being punished. And if at some point in their journey they can see or hear what sex trafficking is, they have like this light bulb moment, like oh my gosh, this is what's happened to me. And so it's very hard to fight what you don't know you're fighting right. It's very hard to fight the invisible beast they don't know, and traffickers want them to stay kind of innocent of what's happening to them to some regard. I mean, obviously, if you are being bought and sold for sex that you don't want to have, you're very aware of what's happening to you, but you don't realize that it's this complex criminal activity that is the fastest growing, most lucrative criminal industry in the world right now.
Christa Potratz:This concludes part one of our sex trafficking episode. Join us next week for part two, as Tracy will take us through more of the dangers online and also the role pornography plays in sex trafficking. So join us more for some great insight next week. We'll see you back next time. Bye.
Paul Snamiska:Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it and sharing it with friends. We're sure you have questions on today's topic or other life issues. Our goal is to help you through these tough topics and we want you to know we're here to help. You can submit your questions, as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes, at lifechallengesus or email us at podcast at christianliferesourcescom. In addition to the podcasts, we include other valuable information at lifechallengesus, so be sure to check it out. For more about our parent organization, please visit christianliferesourcescom. May God give you wisdom, love, strength and peace in Christ for every life challenge.
