The Life Challenges Podcast
The Life Challenges Podcast
What Christ’s Resurrection Means for Our Work
The resurrection of Jesus Christ transforms everything about our lives—from how we face death to how we make daily decisions. In this profound conversation with Pastor Piet Van Kampen, we explore 1 Corinthians 15, perhaps the most comprehensive teaching on resurrection outside the Gospels themselves.
What happens when we strip away resurrection hope from our faith? Paul's urgent message to the Corinthians reveals the devastating consequences: "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins." Without the resurrection, Christianity collapses into mere moral philosophy. But with it, we possess the ultimate answer to life's greatest challenges.
Pastor Van Kampen unpacks how resurrection hope provides concrete comfort during our darkest moments—whether standing at the graveside of loved ones or facing our own mortality. This hope isn't abstract theology but practical strength that enables believers to face dangers with courage, resist temptation with purpose, and invest in Kingdom work with confidence.
The conversation takes a compelling turn as we examine how resurrection faith specifically informs Christian Life Resources' approach to complex ethical issues. When confronting assisted suicide, abortion, or end-of-life decisions, the resurrection provides a revolutionary perspective: this broken world with its suffering is not the final reality. Pain, disease, disability—all these will be transformed in the resurrection body.
Perhaps most powerfully, Paul's words remind us that "your labor is not in vain in the Lord." In a world demanding instant results and tangible returns, resurrection faith allows us to plant seeds of truth and compassion without seeing immediate fruit. Our work has eternal significance because the One we serve conquered death itself.
Whether you're struggling with grief, ethical dilemmas, or simply wondering if your faith really matters, this discussion offers the ultimate perspective shift. Christ is risen—and that changes everything.
God, doubt, and proof walk into a podcast... it goes better than you’d expect!
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On today's episode.
Piet Van Kampen:This is a chapter that often gets used at funerals because of the hope that it gives to us as Christians, and so, if we think about one way that it impacts our everyday lives, it's something that, in moments of some of our deepest sorrow, it gives us great hope and comfort to know that, because Christ is arisen, and comfort to know that, because Christ is arisen, our loved one who we're laying into the ground today is one day going to rise again, along with all of us.
Paul Snamiska:Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources. People today face many opportunities and struggles when it comes to issues of life and death, marriage and family, health and science. We're here to bring a fresh biblical perspective to these issues and more. Join us now for.
Christa Potratz:Life Challenges. Hi and welcome back. I'm Krista Potrads and I'm here today with Pastor Bob Fleischman, and today we have a special guest with us, Pastor Pete Van Kampen, here with us today. Welcome, Pete.
Piet Van Kampen:Hi, glad to be here.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, we're really excited to have you here today, and the focus of our episode will be on the resurrection and on 1 Corinthians 15 in particular.
Piet Van Kampen:But before we get started on that, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and the work and everything that you do? Sure, so I'm an associate pastor at Holy Cross Lutheran Church in Madison, and Holy Cross is a part of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod, and so I've been serving as a pastor. This is actually my 20th year in the ministry. This year I celebrated my 20th anniversary in January, so I've served here in Madison for about a year and a half, and then before that was in Green Bay, wisconsin, for nine years, and then Cottonwood, minnesota, southwestern Minnesota, for nine years. Before that and, as I said, serving the ELS. I write a column for the Lutheran Sentinel been involved with Christian Life Resources since 2019 as a member of the national board, and my wife, charity and I we've been married for 27 years and we have four boys. All of them are 18 and over. Two are married, and we got one, the last one's graduating high school in May.
Bob Fleischmann:Time moves quickly.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, yeah, and you said that you've been on the Christian Life Resource Board since 2019.
Piet Van Kampen:Yeah, Is that correct?
Christa Potratz:That's correct, awesome. So what kind of led you to become a board member?
Piet Van Kampen:You know you think about the calling to defend life and especially to deal and wrestle with the issues that Christian Life Resources wrestles with on a regular basis, having to do with beginning of life issues, end of life issues. There's just so many opportunities to not only help people who are in desperate need a lot of times for guidance, but also opportunities to share the comfort of Jesus with them, and it's a wonderful ministry to be able to help with and support. So when I was asked to consider joining the board, it was kind of a no-brainer to me.
Bob Fleischmann:It was interesting. Very few people get onto the CLR board that I don't already know. Pete is one of them. I did not know Pete. I went to the late President Molstad, who's a friend of mine from back in college, and I asked him. I said you know, we'd like to bring an ELS guy onto the board and he had recommended this Van Kampen guy and at that time, pete, you were up in Green Bay, right, yeah, yeah, so brought him on. Well, today Pete is the vice chairman and the spiritual advisor on the board and he heads up the program committee and he's on the ethics committee and he's a valuable asset and friend for our work and sorting things out. He's got a good mind on dealing with the deep subjects.
Piet Van Kampen:It helps that we're both Dutch too.
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah, it does it does. 50% of me is Dutch in biology and 100% of Pete is Dutch in name.
Christa Potratz:Well, we're really glad that you are joining us here today and specifically, we really wanted to talk about the resurrection and the scripture that we had kind of focused on was the 1 Corinthians 15. It is a section of scripture that is typically associated with our Easter celebration. Can you just describe a little bit of what is going on in 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, and why it is so closely associated with our Easter celebration?
Piet Van Kampen:Yeah, yeah, when you look at 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, outside of the Gospels, it's really, it's one of the places in the Bible that just so clearly teaches the resurrection of Christ.
Piet Van Kampen:And it doesn't just mention Jesus rising from the dead, but talks extensively.
Piet Van Kampen:The Apostle Paul talks extensively there about Jesus' resurrection and talks about how he died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures.
Piet Van Kampen:And there's a good reason why the chapter deals with the topic of the resurrection because apparently in the church in Corinth that Paul was writing to at that time, there were some people in the congregation who were starting to say, well, maybe there's no resurrection of the dead, and so it's a wonderful answer to that. And you read through the whole chapter and you just have this wonderful portrayal of the resurrection as it's really the heart of the gospel that saves us and doesn't just talk about the resurrection but presents evidence for it too. Paul talks about how the risen Christ appeared to Peter and then to the 12, and then after that to over 500 witnesses at the same time and so on, and so it also kind of helps from a scriptural apologetic point of view, maybe in terms of giving a defense for the divinity of Christ and for the forgiveness of our sins in his resurrection. So 1 Corinthians 15 is loaded with all kinds of wonderful things.
Bob Fleischmann:One of the great things about Easter season is it makes the Christian faith far more than just a social network type thing. In other words, it creates this continuity that takes us into eternity. There's a lot of people who talk about the Christian faith more as kind of like a good moral code to live by and so forth, but it's really, with the account of the resurrection, frames everything. I like the part where Paul makes a comment about if all we have to believe in is Jesus in this life, then we're to be pitied more than all this message of the resurrection which creates kind of the form, kind of the paradigm really with everything we do, everything we do at CLR, certainly, but even just everything we do as individual Christians, everything we do is individual Christians.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, could you expand a little bit on that concept where we link Christ's resurrection with our faith and salvation?
Piet Van Kampen:Well, yeah, there's a good chunk of the chapter that deals with specifically that topic and it kind of addresses it from that standpoint of if there's no resurrection like the people were arguing well then Christ isn't raised either. And so if you could just imagine, let's just say Jesus didn't rise and let's just say there's a body buried somewhere in the world, and what would that actually mean for us as Christians? And Paul points out that without Christ's resurrection, any preaching of the gospel or our faith would basically be pointless, that all of us pastors that are preaching on Sunday morning would be breaking the second commandment every week because we'd be lying in God's name, we'd be committing the worst kind of blasphemy there is if Christ isn't raised. He goes on to say if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile, your faith is pointless, you're still in your sins. Jesus' death on the cross meant nothing, because if he didn't rise, well then he's just some guy who died and who claimed to be somebody, but who really wasn't. He really was just like the rest of us. Might as well just close up shop and go home right now.
Piet Van Kampen:That's kind of what Bob was hitting at or talking about a minute ago when he talked about. If our hope for jesus, our hope for christ, is only in this life, well then it's. We're the most pitiful people of all. And then paul says but thankfully, there is a resurrection from the dead. Because he says, in fact, christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep, asleep. And he goes on to talk about the fact that, because Jesus rose, well, in Christ all of us are going to be made alive too. We can trust that our sins are forgiven and that one day we're going to enter eternal life with our Lord. So it's a central thing to our life and it's in great contrast to the predominant message we get in the world today too, which is that this life is all there is and that when this life is over, well, you're done. No, because Christ is raised, we have an eternity to look forward to with a glorified body.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, there's moments where you read the scriptures and it just I don't know, it just really hits you like man. Okay, they had these questions 2,000 years ago too. I mean because so many people nowadays just like what you were saying too, also really seem to question the resurrection and what does that mean, and the significance and everything, and they were even so much closer to it, but there was already those questions coming up. And so because when you hear Paul speak these words and when I read it, I just think about how awesome it is to hear him now, but then it was also so neat 2,000 years ago for people to be listening to that and hearing that too.
Bob Fleischmann:Well, you know, when Pete was talking about, christ hadn't been raised. There's a body flying someplace to be found, all that kind of stuff. This presented a very unique problem for the Corinthians because he said not only was he seen by the people identified, and then 500, and then he said some of those have fallen asleep, which means some of those have died, but some of them are still around to that day. And so the Corinthians had a very unique challenge. If they wanted to deny the resurrection, they had trouble because there were eyewitnesses still walking around. There were still eyewitnesses that they can consult with. And yeah, I was thinking too when Pete used the word pitiful. One other place in scripture where the word pitiful is striking for me is on Revelation. I think it's Revelation 3.17, the church of Laodicea. You say I'm rich, I don't need a thing, but you do not realize you're pitiful or blind and naked. So there's a little bit of a theme there that kind of runs when you're living for the world, there's just a certain pointlessness to it which makes your existence pitiful.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, and it really is a good lead-in to another question about just the connection between the resurrection and our daily lives. What would you say is a good lead-in to another question about just the connection between the resurrection and our daily lives? What would you say is a good thing to focus on when we talk about the resurrection and our daily lives?
Piet Van Kampen:Well, paul hints at a couple of things in the chapter itself, and I'll get to those in a second, but just to think too. First off, this is a chapter that often gets used at funerals because of the hope that it gives to us as Christians, and so if we think about one way that it impacts our everyday lives, it's something that in moments of some of our deepest sorrow, it gives us great hope and comfort to know that, because Christ is arisen, our loved one who were laying into the ground today is one day going to rise again along with all of us. So there's that. But Paul also talks about a couple of other things here.
Piet Van Kampen:He talks about facing dangerous situations and having courage in the face of dangerous situations because of the hope of the resurrection that we have in Christ. He says why do we live in danger? Every hour, day by day, I face death as surely as I boast about you, brothers in Christ Jesus, our Lord. Paul talks about his own courage in the face of possibly dying for the sake of the gospel. In that way we maybe think about people who serve in the various helping vocations where you're asked to be a first responder, somebody who's a police officer or a firefighter or somebody who's serving in the armed forces, and the sacrifices that they're expected to make. Where does the courage to make those sacrifices come from? Well, if you're a believer, it comes from knowing that Jesus lives, and one day I'm going to live too.
Piet Van Kampen:One other area maybe to think about too is just giving our lives to general purpose and meaning. Paul in verses I think it's 32 or 33, talks he says if the dead are not raised, well then we just give in to the predominant philosophy of the time, which is let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die. Why bother living a moral life, whereas the resurrection gives us a sense of delayed gratification? In the best possible way, I can use sober judgment, I can live a life that gives glory to God and resists temptation, because, first of all, I know that my sins are forgiven, that I have that hope of eternal life, but also when I think about my example and the need for others to hear the gospel as well and to know that Jesus died and rose for them. So those are some ways, maybe, that the resurrection touches our daily lives.
Bob Fleischmann:Well, and we have this constant tension. Really You're either living for this world or you're living for something else. Because a lot of people live for the world. We get kind of sucked into thinking like the world, so primary focus kind of shifts over to careers and human relationships and so forth, and as a result, when we do that shift, we begin to lose sight of the fact that when it's interrupted with the ultimate interruption, which of course is death, which shatters all the hopes and dreams for life in this world, death just kind of messes that all up. And then you get kind of this opportunity for recalibration, it's like. But you don't have a pitiful existence because your life is devoted to glorifying God. That's really what it's all about. You live every day recognizing that it ends the same way for everyone in death and even though it ends, it continues. And that's exactly what Paul talked to the Thessalonians. I don't want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep.
Bob Fleischmann:This resurrection permeates and really, truth be told, it's what attracted me to what we do here at CLR, because when I was a student at Bethany in Mankato, minnesota, bethany Lutheran College, I became involved in pro-life stuff and all of my involvement was on the secular realm. I went up to a dinner up at MCCL. Harold OJ Brown was the speaker and I just remembered always you've got to fight abortion, you've got to do all that kind of stuff when we came down, when we moved to Milwaukee in 1979 for me to go to the seminary in Mequon, I became involved with what is today Wisconsin Work to Life and again it was very neat, loved helping protect babies, helping mothers, but it was when I got wind of this organization that deals with these issues or with abortion at the time, but within a Christian context. So there was something bigger, something deeper that was at work here and it really I mean the message of the resurrection. I think truly, truly, for the best of my ability is to always be at the heart of what we're doing here at CLR.
Christa Potratz:Bob makes a really good point too with what the work and the mission of Christian Life Resources is with the resurrection. Do you have anything to kind of add to that Pete with how Christ's resurrection applies to the work that is being done at Christian Life Resources?
Piet Van Kampen:Yeah, when you think about the work that we do, it's just a reminder that everything is so much bigger and better in the end than the world that we have now. And Paul talks about the perishable being made imperishable and so on, and uses that picture of a seed being planted in the ground as a an analogy to for for what happens between the death our death and the time of our resurrection. And in confirmation class with the kids, I talk about corn. You know what's that little seed that you plant in the ground? What do you call it? It's corn. And well, you plant it in the ground and get a little water. And what happens? By the end of the summer it? It's a 10-foot stalk. Well, what do you call that? Corn? And you start to understand how different life is going to be in the resurrection.
Piet Van Kampen:Lately, bob's been writing a lot about assisted suicide and euthanasia.
Piet Van Kampen:And you think about the problems of getting older, the problems of pain and disease, and how one day we're never going to have to worry about any of those things ever again because Christ is raised from the dead and we're going to be raised too.
Piet Van Kampen:Or we think about people find reasons to abort babies.
Piet Van Kampen:Or you think about people aborting babies for Down syndrome or all these other chronic conditions and so on, and to think that you know, in the resurrection period, children that are born with those conditions, those conditions won't be a problem anymore and there's an eternal future that we all have to look forward to. And it gives a perspective to our work that is just not found in the secular world, even on the pro-life side, in secular society just that grand future that God has planned for us. And it gives us comfort and encouragement. It gives us a lot of comfort, especially when you think about kind of the dark times that we're living in. I think personally for myself as somebody who's pro-life, that, being pro-life in general, you're kind of facing an uphill battle right now in terms of what society thinks. There's a lot of fear and sometimes it can feel a little pointless, and yet to know that this bigger plan that God has and that we're part of that, there's kind of always two sides to the work that we do at CLR.
Bob Fleischmann:You know, there's the side of the audience which is oftentimes the people who want or are seeking assistance in suicide or they're looking for an abortion. They're looking to do things that are contrary to the will of God, and so you've got their perspective, and a lot of times talk of resurrection is not on their radar. They're talking about getting by the next 24 hours. They're talking about getting by the diagnosis, getting by the pain, whatever trauma has affected them. And then there's this side, and that is as the worker, and I would say that in the last 10 years or so, the message of the resurrection has and I know this sounds crazy for somebody who's been in ministry for over 40 years, but for me the resurrection has kind of recalibrated my view on this side. Why? Because think about it this way Psalm 23, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me.
Bob Fleischmann:Well, I don't know about you, but almost everybody I deal with Christian, non-christian has a certain element of fear when they're walking through the valley of the shadow of death, including family members of someone walking through the valley. There, just there seems to be fear. And yet he says you don't have to be afraid. He says if people challenge you, they strike you in one cheek. Give them the other side. Let them hit the other cheek. If they take your coat, give them your jacket. They force you to walk one mile, walk two miles. I mean, why else are you going to do that, especially if you're living for the world? There is no incentive to do that. Living for the world, it only has to do when you understand the broader context of eternal life. I'm happy for the last 10 years where this has become clearer for me. But I'm happy for the last 10 years where this has become clear for me, but I'm frustrated as to where it was the first 58 years.
Christa Potratz:I really enjoy this chapter. I mean, I encourage all of our listeners to read it. Not going to lie, though, it is a pretty lengthy chapter in scripture I think it has over 50 verses in it but it really progresses in kind of this neat way as well, when we're talking about Christ's resurrection and then, yeah, just like how you were saying Bob, there's this no fear aspect of it. So when Paul gets to that point too where he just says I'm surrounded by death all day long, and just that idea, it is very comforting too. We do get to see some real comfort in it, and I think you mentioned some of that Pete too, with the comfort and encouragement that it provides. Specifically in verse 58 of that chapter it says Therefore, my dear brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always bounding in the Lord's work, because you know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord. Verses like that in particular really seem to kind of hit home with some of the stuff that we're also doing with Christian-like resources too.
Piet Van Kampen:Yeah, when you think about those words, your labor is not in vain in the Lord. Without the Lord, all our labor would be in vain. But in the Lord, the same Jesus who died and rose again, the same Jesus who's coming soon to raise all the dead, is alive and at work in this fallen world, and he is working through our faithful labor. And so, as we encounter people who are in need or are suffering, as we deal with people who are maybe trying to get around God's will and are looking for counsel or permission, we can be immovable and steadfast in what the truth of God's word says about life and about eternal life in Jesus. You think about how much work there is to do. I know Bob's list is not getting any shorter.
Christa Potratz:We keep adding things to it.
Piet Van Kampen:Everybody at CLR works very hard and is busy doing the work that needs to be done. And sometimes you know you get involved in some things and maybe it feels like, well, I don't know that I accomplished that much or not getting much done. And yet you know you can also trust that in Christ, nothing that you do in his love, nothing you do, is pointless. Even the smallest task is still kingdom work.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, and I have to remind myself that as I'm wiping noses for my kids and cleaning up milk on the floor again, of that I mean that is a comfort in everything that we do, knowing that our work is for the Lord.
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah, you know, it really is incredible that we get so distracted by the world that we, you know, we'll let the things of the world frustrate us, and so forth. And yet I struck by how scripture so often uses the analogy of planting seed. I always like to use the analogy that what we do here is always investing and the world looks for instant gratification, you know. In other words, you know I'm going to take a bucket of money and I'm going to invest it and I'm going to project when I'm going to get a return and when that will be, you know, and so forth, and we have all these metrics. And then, of course, you get to the Christian faith, which is planting. It's talking about Jesus. It's not up to us to convert anybody. We just simply tell people about it and let the message, let the work of the Holy Spirit take place.
Bob Fleischmann:But the point is is, when we're talking to people about the resurrection of Jesus, it can be frustrating.
Bob Fleischmann:But, as we've encountered on past podcasts, we've talked to people, we've talked to counselors and so forth who share a message in a contentious situation unplanned pregnancy, whatever, a lot of emotion and so forth and it bears fruit, and not always the kind of fruit you're expecting.
Bob Fleischmann:Sometimes it's not that just somebody decides not to have an abortion, sometimes they still have an abortion, but somehow the message permeates out into a broader audience and it creates another thought and another opportunity. And again, without the resurrection, there is nothing. We have nothing to anchor on, and I can tell you already, as the guy who spends part of his career studying all this stuff on technology and artificial intelligence and how we're going to be able to take human consciousness and implant it in so that people can keep on living. It's not happening. All you have to do is look at it with your eyes open. But the thing is is you've already got it because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and it's our job to tell people. You don't have to hold out for longevity studies, you don't have to hold out for perfecting computing so that you can load your full consciousness into something, because you've got it already because of Jesus Christ and the resurrection.
Christa Potratz:Any final thoughts before we go? Resurrection, any final?
Piet Van Kampen:thoughts before we go. You know just when we think about Easter. Bob just nailed it when he said we have nothing without the resurrection, and with the resurrection we have everything. We have a Savior who loves us, we have a God who has forgiven us, we have forever with our Lord, in an existence that will make everything in this life pale in comparison, and that's the comfort that we get to live with each and every day, and it's the comfort that we get to share, especially with those who need it the most, and so it's a privilege to be able to do that.
Christa Potratz:Well, thank you very much, Pastor Van Kampen, for joining us today, and we really appreciate it you taking the time to talk with us about the resurrection.
Piet Van Kampen:Thanks for having me.
Christa Potratz:No problem, and we thank all of our listeners, too, for joining us. Thanks for having me. No problem, and we thank all of our listeners too for joining us, and if you have any questions on this episode or any other, please reach out to us at lifechallengesus. Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska:Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it and sharing it with friends. We're sure you have questions on today's topic or other life issues. Our goal is to help you through these tough topics and we want you to know we're here to help. You can submit your questions, as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes, at lifechallengesus or email us at podcast at christianliferesourcescom. In addition to the podcasts, we include other valuable information at lifechallengesus, so be sure to check it out. For more about our parent organization, please visit christianliferesourcescom. May God give you wisdom, love, strength and peace in Christ for every life challenge.
