The Life Challenges Podcast
Modern-day issues from a Biblical perspective.
The Life Challenges Podcast
Bioethics, Made Clear
What happens when life-and-death choices collide with shifting cultural norms and persuasive feelings? We step into the thick of bioethics with a clear, Christian lens, exploring how unmovable moral principles guide real decisions about abortion, gender transitions, IVF, ventilators, and assisted suicide. Together, we unpack why emotion should inform compassion but never replace truth, and how small compromises in principle become big changes in policy over time.
The ministry of Christian Life Resources promotes the sanctity of life and reaches hearts with the Gospel. We invite you to learn more about the work we're doing: https://christianliferesources.com/
On today's episode.
SPEAKER_00:But reality invites this thing that Jeff raised, and that is the role of emotion. And I don't want to sound like a stoic here, but emotion should follow a sound ethical principle. It should not become the ethical principle. In other words, in my immense love for other people, rooted in the foundation of what God's established in His Word, my heart goes out for people and I want to minister to them and I want to care for them. But my desire to minister and care for people does not predispose God's will.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome to the Life Challenges Podcast from Christian Life Resources. Our world today presents people with complicated issues of life and death, marriage and family, health and science. It can be a struggle to understand or deal with them. We're here to help by bringing good information and a fresh biblical perspective to these matters and more. Join us now for life challenges.
SPEAKER_01:Hi, and welcome back. I'm Christa Pochretz and I'm here today with Pastors Bob Fleischman and Jeff Samelson. And today we're going to talk about the topic of bioethics. If you have been listening to our podcasts for, I don't know, really any amount of time, you have probably heard us talk about the topic of bioethics, but we have never done an entire episode on bioethics. And we thought it was uh well that it was about time that we do that. So we are gonna devote an entire episode today on the topic and the subject of bioethics.
SPEAKER_00:And don't fall asleep. I know it sounds boring, but no, it won't be.
SPEAKER_01:And actually, um, I mean bioethics is I mean, yes, maybe it does, like Bob says, sound kind of dry, but it it really I I don't think it is very dry at all.
SPEAKER_02:I mean It's a matter of life and death. Yeah. Yeah, literally.
SPEAKER_01:So with that, Jeff, can you start us off by describing for our audience what is bioethics?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I uh checked the dictionary on my computer and it defined bioethics as the ethics of medical and biological research, which I found to be an insufficient uh definition because bioethics goes way beyond research. It it goes into the practical matters as well of what do you do in X situation and what's the right thing to do there. And it also just uses the word ethics, which probably itself needs to be defined. Same dictionary defines that as moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity. And that's part of the problem with defining all of this stuff is because ethics and morality, they're not exactly the same thing, but they are so closely intertwined that it can be hard to differentiate between them. Ethics tends to be a little bit more of the practical sense of, okay, we have these moral principles. Now what happens when we apply them to this situation or this type of circumstance? Since ethics is it's uh really a broad and it's a subjective field also, because it's all about what am I going to do or what do I think you should do when you are exposed to this or whatever. We can expect bioethics, which is really just kind of a subset of ethics, to be also subjective in many respects. I mean, we're starting with objective, immovable, unchangeable moral principles, but because the application of them can be subjective, the subjectivity also tends to crawl back into the actual principles.
SPEAKER_00:Ethics is part of the philosophy department at the university, and philosophy is that's why I said don't fall asleep on this, because philosophy, the philosophy is part of the humanities area. That's all going like down the tubes. You know, people are showing less interest in philosophy, less interest in history, and less interest in in ethics. And you see this, think of ethics as the umbrella, bioethics is one of the things underneath it. There are other fields, like for example, there's legal ethics. Sometimes ethics is used to describe just kind of like governing principles within a profession that you can and should not do. And when we talk about bioethics, the reason we lean that way is because at CLR, we kind of fell into it. When we started in 1983, we had some pregnancy counseling centers around the country, and the issue was abortion. And it for us it wasn't even really a like a bioethical issue. I mean, we we understood scripture was pretty clear on this, that life exists already at conception, you can't take life. It's not our our responsibility without God's permission to take life, so you should be protecting it and watching over it and that kind of stuff. And then what began to happen is because at least within our church body, there were two things going on. Without our church body, we had nobody to go to for other deeper questions like what about this and what about that? And so that's how we began to expand. But it correlated with all sorts of incredible things happening in society. I I would say the Karen Ann Quinlan case really is considered to be the catalyst for bioethics. And we've talked about that before on on the podcast, but with Karen Ann Quinlan, when there was an issue of do we disconnect respirator support? And so it was dealing with her biology, keeping her going. What's the right decision? Now, if you go back into the biblical times when Moses received the law from God from Mount Sinai, he still was getting overworked. So he was supposed to basically appoint arbitrators to work with the people. Why? They were to take these what Jeff was describing as these unmovable, rock solid principles and apply them to different circumstances. So when we talk when you've if you've heard me speak on this, uh we talk about principles and then we talk about applications. And so these arbitrators were to basically laying down the application to the principles. Now, where society has gotten really muddy on this, which is why the Life Challenges podcast is so important and the work we do at Christian Life Resources, is that society doesn't accept the absolute, unmovable, rock solid foundation for what is right and wrong. They've changed that over the years, and that's become very problematic. And part of it too, and again, this is where I just punish you with a little bit of history. There was a time when I first got involved with life issues, which was in the middle 70s, and then going into the um the late 80s when I came on full time, and that is, we used to always talk about the Judeo-Christian ethic. And the Judeo-Christian ethic was that common standard that was held both in the Jewish community and the Christian community, that some things are right and some things are wrong. And then for the humanists, for the for the agnostics and the atheists, they had what they called natural law, which is the notion that if you look over centuries and centuries of history, there are certain things you could do and certain things you shouldn't do. And so that was kind of informing this absolute standard of right and wrong. That has all like I can't tell you the last time I saw anybody write about the Judeo-Christian ethic, which is too bad because I still think it's the only valid standard to go by. But so that's changed. And that's why bioethics is so important. Because we can sit there and say, well, you shouldn't have an abortion. And nowadays they say says who?
SPEAKER_01:Ideally, when we're talking about bioethics, there wouldn't be a difference between bioethics done by Christians and bioethics done by non-believers. But I mean, as Bob was saying too, there is a difference. Why is it like that?
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Powell Well, you know, it it's it's really what Bob said, that uh the the main difference is that that most unbelieving bioethicists uh they aren't uh operating with the fixed moral principles that uh we were talking about, and and Christian bioethicists are operating on the basis of God's will as revealed in Scripture. It it's not hard to imagine that you're gonna end up with very different results when there's one group of people who are saying, no, no, these things are firm and certain. We're standing on a foundation over here, and uh you've got another group that is saying, well, no, it's really all movable, flexible. We're on wheels here. We can move around wherever we think we ought to be. You're you're gonna end up with uh really significant differences then in terms of where where you end up on questions.
SPEAKER_00:Early uh it went from my college years and into my early years at the seminary. We used to talk about Joseph Fletcher and situational ethics. And situational ethics was kind of that wishy-washy part that Jeff's describing. Joseph Fletcher used to basically say, well, it depends on your circumstance. What might be right or wrong here might not be right or wrong there. And I remember one of the first conferences I was invited to when I came on board in 1988, they had invited Joseph Fletcher to be a speaker, but he was near the end of his life and he was so ill that he backed out like a week before the conference and he died shortly thereafter. But I would have been anxious. But that that was the first inkling that I got that we were surrendering this rock solid foundation of where things go. And it's very popular today. And social again, I'm gonna throw it at the feet of social media. Social media has really fueled this fire that as long as you hold an argument and you can present it persuasively, you have a voice in the modern bioethical movement. So I just was reading today the National Catholic Conference of Bishops has named a new head of it. And so the pay the news, the secular media was covering it, and they said, Well, you know, he's he's very much got trouble with the Trump administration on immigration, but he's comes out with these like these old biblical stances on gender and on abortion and so forth. And that's kind of how society treats it now, is that if you go with a a rock solid, unmovable position, uh you're almost treated like an outlier, and it creates this unusual thing. Now, since Krista talked me into doing these podcasts years ago, I've actually started listening to different podcasts. And I listen to different secular and conservative podcasts. One of the crazy things is I spend much of my week reading a lot of liberal stuff, and I just do because I have to, I'm always everybody who comes to me asking questions has been profoundly influenced by you know the liberal agenda. They've been, you know, the indoctrination, and so I'll see signs of it coming through in the way that they write their questions or or ask their questions. And then when I get to the weekend and I'm mowing the lawn, you know, working in the shop, whatever I'm trying to do on the weekend of my own time, that's when I listen to a lot of the conservative podcasts. And there are times when I am stunned when I hear them come out so candidly and bluntly pro-life and pro-Bible and so forth. Why? Because for the last five days I've been listening to you can't be sure about this. And think about this right now, and that is there are Roman Catholic legislators. Now remember, a lot of the pro-life movement has the Roman Catholicism to thank for it. They very much wear their faith on their sleeve when it comes to things like abortion, and yet there are legislators who will describe the abortion issue this way. They will say, by outlawing abortion, the Dobbs decision and so forth, just radically deprived women of their freedom to control their body. Now the thing is, is there is nothing in Scripture that that plays to. There's nothing in Scripture. And and and the thing is that if they were pressed in some sort of good logical, strong debate, they they got nothing to stand on. And yet it resonates. Why does it resonate? Because all of us have been conditioned during the week that the times are changing. These are different times.
SPEAKER_01:What's the general state of the field of bioethics these days? What are the trends and emphasis?
SPEAKER_00:I serve on the uh bioethics institute at Concordia University, and we have uh people a part of that who serve in the ethics departments on large secular institutions. And it's interesting how sometimes they've even said, don't publicize my name that I'm on this. Because really. Yeah, their institutions punish them and you get punished academically. It gets it's harmful to their careers really. And you know, part of it, and I I make a big deal about this when a Christian remembers that his his calling is always to evangelize, to tell people about Jesus. And you know, when you hold a pro-life position like we do, and so forth, there are people at the mission field that doesn't want to talk to you. And so you have to be careful how you portray that. And you want to be careful what you're associated with because the mission field needs, you know, needs to hear from us. And you know, I have been criticized harshly, cruelly sometimes, uh, over the last nearly forty years for not coming out stronger, harsher. And I've had students I had a student uh in my class that I teach on bioethics and biotechnology, who himself taught bioethics in a public college. It was a two-year college, it was a bioethics course in which all the nurses who were at a secular university were required to take. And so he would come to the class with these really great questions brought from a secular perspective. Because we've become so accustomed to our rock solid biblical foundation for doing things that you forget that the rest of the world isn't working with those same tools. And it and I very much loved having him as a student because he kept me calibrated. He would bring these questions up, and because today they very much feel what's good for the common good. Like the best example I can still think of is the topic of slavery. I would say we could find a universal, pretty much universal position in our culture against slavery. You don't enslave people. Sex slavery is a big deal right now. We've had uh guests on a couple of times, we've talked talked about sex slavery on this uh podcast. Those are things you don't do. Why? What makes slavery wrong? You know, and the the the thing is we don't ask the question a lot why we think it's wrong. So when somebody says it just let's take it from the other perspective, that we should not tell a woman how to control her body and tell her that she can't have an abortion. Okay, you say that, but what makes what you said correct? And when you start digging in, you'll find that it's nothing more than an opinion. And the real litmus test, I think, for the Christian bioethicists, the real lit litmus test is when you have to live with an opinion from God that your sinful flesh disagrees with. You know, and that's always the test of your allegiance to an objective foundation of ethical principles.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Part of the the complication or part of the the problem you and Bob you mentioned earlier uh in in talking about social media about whoever's able to make a persuasive argument. And it's not really an argument often that is doing the persuasion. It's all about emotion. And it's precisely many of the situations Bob was just talking about. What is deciding it? Like why why is slavery uh wrong? Well uh I would feel bad. I would certainly feel bad if it was me being enslaved. So I guess that's why it's wrong. You know, and there's there's no real attempt or or ability maybe to fix it on on anything more solid, anything that's moral or even rational. You know, just as to the the the general state of things, I I think one specific issue uh kind of helps illustrate it. And we have talked about this before, with the matter of of euthanasia and and assisted suicide. Every nation or state or province or whatever that that has said, okay, we're going to have this, this is going to be okay. They always start off with rationalizations saying that, oh, this is only going to be offered in very rare situations. Uh we're going to have these safeguards put in place to make sure that nobody is taken advantage of, no one's pushed into this, that it's only for the best of reasons, and there are all sorts of steps in there to make sure that there's no abuse of this. And all the bioethicists line up and say, this is the right thing to do. It's the way to show respect for people at the end of their lives and in pain and suffering and such. And without fail, a short time afterward, those safeguards that were put in place start getting discussed by the same bioethicists as obstacles that need to be removed. And then slowly they keep getting pulled back and pulled back. And it's the same bioethicists who are making these arguments because they're that they're not operating on that fixed principle of like killing people is bad. You know, they're in this thing, well, you know, what's important is that people feel good about the things that they're doing, and uh that if they feel a certain way, that they are they're able to pursue that.
SPEAKER_01:Is there a temptation then by Christian bioethicists to become more like when you were talking about pushing the guardrails back, like is there a temptation then by Christian bioethicists to maybe become more lenient on different things or to expand what their thinking um is on the subject?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think both things happen. I think some sometimes you're tempted to want to not draw the line so hard. And then there are other times when you see a danger to draw the line too hard. You know, first of all, r remember that kind of like at least it's been my experience, that every transgression in the field of bioethics is rooted in an element of biblical truth. Like whether when we talk about a woman having control over her body. Well, there there's actually some good biblical arguments about having freedom and the choices you make and so forth. But it's always hemmed in by the will of God. That's what distinguishes a Christian bioethicist from an other uh bioethicist, that you're always willing to have it in. So when when somebody comes in and says, well, you know, like the whole gender uh issue, but but they're so unhappy. Well, we want them. Part of Christian love is to we want them to be happy, we want them to but but but we want them to be to find their joy rooted in something that endures eternally in their relationship with God. Every once in a while we'll see a story come through where lifelong conservative bioethicists all of a sudden flip-flopped on gender, flip-flopped on euthanasia, something like that. I can see where that's that can happen. You know, I definitely can see where it happens. First of all, your life is tempered by reality. But reality invites this thing that Jeff raised, and that is the role of emotion. And I don't want to sound like a stoic here, but emotion should follow a sound ethical principle. It should not become the ethical principle. In other words, in my immense love for other people, rooted in the foundation of what God's established in His Word, my heart goes out for people and I want to minister to them and I want to care for them. But my desire to minister and care for people does not predispose God's will. And that's oftentimes the tail is wagging the dog, and that's the way bioethicists today are coming off, the secular ones.
SPEAKER_01:I think bioethics has the reputation of being super intellectual, super philosophical, academic, and that maybe the average Christian doesn't need to pay attention to it, can kind of just ignore it. Okay, we'll let the bioethicists handle it. But is that true? Uh is is it something that a a believer, just a you know, a general believer, should really have some knowledge in or should be aware and understand it?
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Ross Powell No, certainly not every believer needs to understand all these things down to the you know the depth and the detail or over the Trevor Burrus.
SPEAKER_01:That's why we have Bob. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But it is good to have at least enough familiarity with with the things to know what the issues are and uh and how and where to find the answers. Too often there are Christians out there in our society who who just just assume that what they're being told is everything there is to know on the matter. There and that there are no questions to consider, no uh uh ethical issues, you know, and they end up making decisions based on incomplete, ill-informed, inaccurate, or or just plain wrong information. Don't even realize that they're important spiritual considerations. Uh dad is is in the hospital, all the kids and grandkids have you know have have gathered, and you know, there's uh there are questions like, okay, you know, what do we do now? And the doctors may present you with one thing like, well, this is what we think should be done, this is what's normal in this situation, and uh therefore, you know, that this is this is what we're advising you to to do. And we may just say, okay, well, if that's what the doctors think, and that's what's normally done, I g I guess that's right. Well, maybe it's not. You know, you you you you need to know enough about bioethics to realize, oh, well, actually, that's that's kind of a sensitive issue right there. And and that's touching on a moral principle. I I think maybe maybe I should talk to my pastor about this. You know, maybe I should get some some better information before just accepting that. And that's why you need to have some more knowledge of this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:If I were to create a training course for the perfect bioethicist, it would be first of all, theology. You really need to know the Bible. You've got to keep going through it, going through it, going through it, because it's it's the kind of thing where, you know, at first it doesn't always seem clear to you, and then it does. And the clarity of scripture oftentimes occurs not only from just habitual uh going into it, but experiencing more in life. You know, I felt I was much smarter when I was younger. You know, and that's just kind of the way it is. It's it seems simple when you're younger. And well, and that's why like my second g past theology would be psychology. You know, and because one of the things and when I say psychology, I mean before I start figuring out you, I need to figure out me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, uh you know, what what are some parts of Scripture, Bob, that would be particularly helpful as a foundation for uh a truly Christian bioethics?
SPEAKER_00:Aaron Ross Powell Uh so theologically from Scripture, I I I think the things that have helped me the most was understanding my own natural inclination to evil. I work on that every day. I consciously try to keep that in mind that if the Apostle Paul, whom I admire beyond all description, were to publicly s confess that the good that I would do, I do not, the evil I would not do that I keep on doing, if he feels that way, I'm definitely in trouble. Secondly, you need to understand what you're trying to accomplish. And that is we're always trying to demonstrate with our lives what we know God did with the life of his son. So to me, Christian bioethics is always shining a light on Jesus. It's always when people are wrestling with a decision to make, that's why you begin with theology. You've got to understand, first of all, what it is that pleases God. And a lot of people are looking for a rule book. And it's interesting because we're told in scripture that apart from faith, it's impossible to please God, which means that an unbeliever and a believer can both be doing the same thing which is consistent with God's word, but the one is not pleasing God with what he's doing because it's apart from faith. So you've got you start with theology, you beg go to psychology, and then you've got to know the issues. And part of it is that when you are tuned in to theology and you understand psychology, you understand that everybody who's telling you stuff are telling you it with a bias. They always have a bias. And then you have to, I think part of it too, um kind of talking about something we talked about a little bit earlier, and that is I think you have to steal yourself against the emotion of the issue. And that is hard. That is very, very hard. When my dad had his heart attack, and the doctor said the damage is catastrophic. Not just bad, it's catastrophic. And he's 90 years old. We have seen these symptoms before and everything, it's catastrophic. There is the emotional side of me that is saying, but we can do more. There's more that we can do. But there is the spiritual side, the theological side of me that says God is calling them, God is taking them. And that's God's prerogative to do. So what niche does CLR fill in all this? We make it our business to try to know what the issues are. So whether you're talking gender, whether you're talking IVF, whether you're talking birth control, whether you're talking assisted suicide, whether you're talking a host of other issues going on. So we try to study that so that when you call or your pastor calls and says, I need to know what's what's going on here, we can tell you where the biases are going to come out in the emergency room. We can tell you where that shows up and how you react to it. And because the issues are so complex, it's it's a lot. Don't expect your pastor to have it all covered.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, you know, that was one of my questions too. Uh and uh Jeff was talking about the family in the hospital room, and then you mentioned too that okay, there there might be something where it's oh, this is maybe more of a moral issue, or I should talk to my pastor about it. How do you know if your pastor knows, you know, or like maybe to I what should pastors know or understand or be prepared to talk, preach, and teach about when it comes to the subject of bioethics?
SPEAKER_02:Well, before turning things over to Bob, who who knows a lot more about this than I do, I just say one of it is to know limitations. And it's not just know the limitations of your own knowledge, but also to realize that that sometimes the things that you think you know 100%, you might not. It it's very easy to just lay something down as, okay, well, there is absolute black and white on these issues, and that's the end of it. And to realize that maybe it's not quite as as cut and dried as you thought it was, to have the knowledge really to be able to understand that. And and even when things are black and white, even in those cases, you know, to realize that when you're dealing with questions from your very human parishioners, realize that, okay, just because I can give that answer that's left is right and right is wrong, you know, kind kind of things, doesn't mean that I need to just slap them in the face with it. That that there's you've got to be patient, you've got to deal with emotions and things like that. And fair amount of for a pastor of bioethics is just having the ability to express truths from God's word in ways that are going to connect with the people you know that you're trying to serve, and and to do that in a way that is both helpful and uh and then and compassionate.
SPEAKER_00:The pastor should be serving the role he's always been serving, and that is he knows the full counsel of God. And so he should he he can bring light into some of the dark corners of a situation uh that you don't have. And it's important for a pastor, it is for any counselor of any sort to understand his limitations. So nowhere when Jeff's talking about where you realize that you just don't know it all the time. That happens to me. I mean, it happens to me a lot. I mean, you just all of a sudden you you run across an article that brings in a different perspective you had never even thought about. You have to take that into consideration when you're you're doing it. It doesn't mean that there are that the ground is always so j so jelloy, you know, it isn't. There's rock solid ground to stand on, but sometimes you're understanding the circumstance. And if a pastor understands his limitations, he's going to buy time. Now, there have been many pastors over the years who've called me on the way to the hospital. Many pastors who have called me on the way to the hospital. I just got called, I had a member, they were in an accident. This is what they told me. What am I going to be up against? What am I and so we'll talk about that? Or I'm going to sit down with the family because that they come back with uh a serious diagnosis, it's that much worse. You know, what do we do in those circumstances? And those are the kinds of things where a pastor does recognize this is going to be out of my my realm. The one thing that and I was thinking of it while Jeff was talking is one mantra that I've said a lot of times when I present on it is the very moment you think it's simple, you have now missed it. None of this stuff is simple. There's there's so many things that come into play. And so always appreciate as a pastor and as a layman who goes to your pastor looking for help, recognize that it's tough. Don't look for your pastor to to be expert in anything but what he is supposed to be the expert in, and that is in the Word of God. So you want to find out what God's Word has to say, and if it's if it steps into the realm that's beyond his knowledge, hopefully he's gonna be honest enough to admit it and want to get back to you on it.
SPEAKER_01:When you were talking to it very much it came in my mind to um just everything that my family went through and my dad had his stroke and being in the hospital there, and I remember it was both you, Bob, and also uh another pastor who was a very close friend of my dad's who both had said to like either myself or my mom to um but just to get a second opinion. I mean, make sure, and and I I thought that was such great advice too in that moment because I mean you are just trusting what the doctor says, and I mean our doctor too had told us that he was a Christian and he felt that you know that God was calling my dad home and everything too. And you just you kind of want to just like go with that uh too. But yeah, in our case too, we were able to send um the the scan to uh another doctor who also was able to confirm that. And I think you know, in those moments too, when you just you want to be a good steward of life. I mean, as if the family too, the thing on the table was removing my dad from the ventilator. And so you want to be very just very sure as a Christian or just no want to be able to do the right thing, especially when it comes to life and death. And I mean, especially too with the with the loved one. And so I just found that to be just a really great piece of advice just to get another opinion. And that was just a really practical thing at at that moment.
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Ross Powell So Bob, if there's a pastor listening to this or a parishioner who wants to push their pastor in a certain way to say, uh, need some more education on these things so that I can I can better respond to these things. How how would a pastor go about getting the the education and information that they they need on these?
SPEAKER_00:Aaron Powell Well, uh first of all, the uh CLR website by all means, and uh the wealth of information dispensed on Life Challenges Podcast. But the uh I'm teaching uh Winterham in January, uh in January 2026, uh one week class at the seminary on the pastor and bioethics, in which we're going through this. In fact, I just completely rewrote the curriculum for that. And we're gonna be tackling that and and I I I like to remind everybody, first of all, uh we're gonna try to pack four years of degree work into uh one week. And uh you know, there's gonna be a lot of reading, a lot of work to be done, but it's also gonna be inc incredibly and immensely practical. I'm gonna try not to get into all the philosophical debates and stuff like that that is part of some of the foundation work for of uh uh working in bioethics without having to uh to do all that. We're gonna skip a lot of that. And so that so that's something you can do. I I would just say first of all to the members, just remember that I I think, you know, and and I've gone I've gone through this personally, on a personal level where you get those crisis moments. We do are tempted, like Krista was talking about, you want to almost follow the path of least resistance. It's like this is so much drama. Can't we just Yeah, let's move on? You know, I you you want it over. So you gotta understand that inclination. And uh a pastor, I think a uh a good pastor is going to help you find the patience to ask, what would God have me to do? And and to seek that out in his word. And meanwhile, the pastor has at his disposal today the resources in CLR and so forth and our own seminary to um get some answers. And there's other there are other good sites out there, websites that have good good information uh to follow up on.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you both for this discussion and this topic today. And if our listeners, if you have any questions on bioethics, send them directly to Bob. But um you can reach us at lifechallenges.us and uh and we'd we would love to know um your questions on this topic too. So thank you to our listeners, and we will see you back next time. Bye.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for joining us for the Life Challenges Podcast of Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it, and sharing it with friends. We're here to help. So if you have questions on today's topic or other life issues, you can submit them as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes at lifechallenges.us, or email us at podcast at ChristianLiferesources.com. You can find past episodes and other valuable information at lifechallenges.us, so please check it out. For more about our parent organization, please visit ChristianLiferesources.com. May God give you wisdom, love, strength, and peace in Christ for every life challenge.
