Children: Burden or Blessing? A Cultural Wake-Up Call

What happens when a man who never wanted children suddenly feels the pull toward fatherhood? In this episode, we unpack a powerful article exploring shifting cultural attitudes about family, purpose, and legacy. From the influence of upbringing to the illusion of endless time, we discuss why more people are delaying—or rejecting—parenthood altogether. Through a Christian lens, we examine the deeper questions: What are we here for? What do we leave behind? And is family a burden or a blessing? This conversation challenges modern assumptions and invites listeners to reconsider the value of children, relationships, and the lasting impact of a life lived for others.  https://x.com/SwipeWright/status/2016519214576685341?s=20

Transcript

elcome And Why Burden Matters

SPEAKER_03 0:00

On today's episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

You know, I think a little bit of the shell game that goes on is when society keeps telling you for your children to be a burden, or as I get older, I don't want to be a burden on others. The presumption is that first of all, burden is always bad. And I don't think that's a valid presumption. But uh I heard him like 30 years ago give a presentation where he he made the statement, he goes, you know, we're always talking about trying to get rid of burdens and not being burdens. He goes, I'm convinced that the fabric of America is strengthened by its ability to carry burdens.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Welcome to the Life Challenges Podcast from Christian Life Resources. Our world today presents people with complicated issues of life and death, marriage and family, health, and science. It can be a struggle to understand or deal with them. We're here to help by bringing good information and a fresh biblical perspective to these matters and more. Join us now for life challenges.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Hi, and welcome back. I'm Christopretz, and I'm here today with Pastors Bob Fleischmann and Jeff Samelson. And today we're gonna talk about this article that Jeff had found when we had done our current event episode for last month. One of the articles that uh Jeff had come across, we did not cover on a current event episode. But um when I read it, it really, it really impacted me. And I thought, man, we gotta do a a whole episode on it. And uh the the title of the article here is called The Day I Wanted to Be a Father. And it is written by, well, I mean, I think of him as a young man, but he may be my age. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Um no, no. We'll we'll still call that young man.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Okay. Yeah, from our perspective.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

But uh uh but but the point of the article is he's not as young as he used to be. Exactly. He's at least in his late thirties.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Exactly, exactly. And um and s and he talks about this moment in his life where he knew he wanted to be a father. And it's just a very interesting article and interesting too from the male perspective. I know we've talked on the show about people that have realized later in life, you know, maybe they want to be a parent, and and maybe more too, like with women, like realizing, oh, okay, the clock's ticking, so to speak. But this was just a very interesting perspective from uh a male to for this article.

atherhood In A Childfree Culture

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Yeah, there's there's been some uh statistical stuff that's come out recently um showing that in, you know, like teenagers and young adults, particularly women in America, are no longer saying, yeah, I think I'm gonna get married and have kids when I grow up. That's that's no longer part of their you know, their their life view of things. And obviously if if women aren't interested in having children, then that that's going to severely limit the amount of children that that are born. But there's not as much attention paid to the men. And in most cases, it it takes two. At least this year. You don't have to to think very far to find examples, whether it's on TV or you know, people within your own life or whatever who are thinking uh men who are like, yeah, I just I don't want to be tied down with kids. You know, this is one of the things that really was a push toward the you know abortion, you know, that it just it freed men from the responsibility of of of of having uh having to be a father. If they got somebody pregnant and then and that woman got an abortion, they were free. They didn't have to worry about that. Birth control also helped with that. And so just not as much attention is paid to men, and there are many more men who are just you know, they they see fatherhood as not necessarily a bad thing, but just not something that's for them. It's gonna be too much of a restriction on them. It's uh you know gonna take t time and money away, and you know, it's fine for other people, but not not maybe for them.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Aaron Ross Powell The article raised for me a number of uh worldview points. You know, in other words, whether you realize it or not, you're always wrestling with the question of why am I here? What am I supposed to do with my life? And oftentimes the default mechanism in the world is I live for me and I live for my goals and objectives, and now I begin to chart a course. I train for a profession that's going to allow me the greatest amount of happiness and to accomplish the greatest amount of good by my set of standards. And that's kind of where he was coming from. What made the article fascinating was how impacted he was by positive role models presented by his parents.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Yeah. Right under the title of the article, uh, The Day I Wanted to Be a Father, um, it says how I mistook the feeling of completeness for permanence and miss the inheritance I was meant to pass on. And as Bob was saying too, the author does go on to say that he grew up in a home where mm his parents loved each other. They uh they showed it, they were affectionate towards each other. He grew up, I think he even mentioned too that he he had a brother who was his best friend, um, just a very positive home environment. And that uh that that almost in his mind made him think like, yep, got family, check. And and he just never really thought um about maybe the importance of having a family of his own because he was so loved by the the family that he had.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah. And one of the things that, you know, when I I shared this article on on social media, um, I commented on how for someone who says he doesn't believe in God, because at the at the very end, uh he says, I've always been wary of labels, I don't believe in God, but I avoid calling myself an atheist. My comment was for somebody who is is not ready to call himself someone who believes in God, he's right there touching the reality that God has a design, and fatherhood is part of that design. Because you know, you you just quoted the the the kind of the subhead, you know, um I mistook the feeling of completeness for permanence and missed the inheritance I was meant to pass on. Well, if you're an atheist and you don't believe there's any meaning to the universe, how can there be an inheritance that you're meant to pass on? He's touching something eternal, he's touching something permanent, something spiritual, uh something very real, and he's not yet at the point where he can put the proper name on it. But it's something that we as Christians can say, aha, you're knocking on the door there. But it's it's a wonderful truth, and I certainly hope that there are men who who read this and uh say, Oh yeah, you know, that's something I should be appreciating too. And you know, I I haven't realized that this is something I've been missing.

cho Chambers And The Childless Identity

SPEAKER_03 7:22

It was interesting too, because I think he said he never really thought that he didn't want to have kids growing up, but it was as he got older that that became maybe more part of his identity, just seeing what how people would say that kids were burdens, and you just that you wouldn't get to do all the things you wanted to do in life when you had children, and he really bought into a lot of that and then realized as he got older, he became more firm in the I don't want to have kids, I don't want to have kids. Uh, he made sure to find relationships with other people that didn't want to have kids, and just then that slowly became part of his identity that he was somebody who did not want to have a family, did not want to have kids.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

He had he had mentioned in the article about being part of that Reddit for forum on you know, kind of just basically all the freedom we have for not having children. And it it just reminded me that it is our inclination to always surround ourselves with people who who we w think like we think we want to think, you know. So so invariably you constantly are getting that's why I come every week to your house.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

That I don't. That is that is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

And look at what it's done for you. But no, I mean it but you kind of you find yourself doing that. And and I mean even Christians, we sometimes do it. And we need to be grounded in something foundational like scripture. Uh but there's nothing wrong with having contact with contrary views because sometimes they they for force you to evaluate your own. But his solution was, you know, I'm I'm gonna go onto this forum, the social media platform, and I'm going to just kind of continue to talk and chat and get reinforced in my convictions about being childless. And it it was also interesting, kind of alluding to what Jeff was saying, how um there was something knocking at the door, something nagging at him that was indicating uh that maybe he's incorrect on this. Now I don't know I can't remember how if he if he references, but I don't I don't know if he's ready to say everybody who thought about not having a child, you're not necessarily wrong. But um he really He got close to that.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

He got very close to it.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

And he put a lot of meat out there for them to to think twice. Because you know, the one thing about about life is that as you go through the stages of being dependent on mom and dad, being independent of mom and dad, admiring mom and dad, feeling like your family with mom and dad. And then, of course, for him, he he reached that cross section uh during COVID, you know, when he uh with his father and then saying, Well, mom there's a timeline here.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

And then all of a sudden you you come to the conclusion that maybe th there's uh something bigger here than everything I thought and imagined.

OVID Wake-Up Call About Mortality

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Yeah, I I know. I as Bob was saying too, he mm the the author of the article got to the point where uh it was was during COVID where um he had moved back home with his family and they were all kind of one again, and then his father took uh a very hard, very terrible fall. And uh and it was at that point that the author just realized, I guess, that that this this whole like little family unit that they had had was not gonna last forever, that his father um was not immortal, and that that he would pass at at some point, and then it was kind of like well then what?

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Yeah, there's a um uh I I won't mention the name of it, but uh someone I listened to their podcast and I read read their stuff or whatever, and it's uh he's not a believer. Um he's he has a Jewish background, but he's you know also somewhat his mom was Christian and it's kinda confusing or whatever. But anyway, his dad died, and then his only brother died, and then his mother died. And he real he had to deal with the fact that he realized he he was the last one of his original family left. Uh fortunately he does have a daughter, but only the one. And I've just listening to him talk about this at various times and just like, yeah, and and the pressure then that that puts on his daughter, not in a negative way, but just like that that she's the only one carrying this on. And it is one of those things, it's it's a strange uh juxtaposition of things. On on the one hand, you realize that this is part of something eternal, that you're carrying this on, you're passing this on, and if if you you don't have kids, the generations stop with you. And that that's not good. But on the other hand, there's the realization, uh, and this is part of what you know motivated the the author of the article, you only have so many Christmases. You only have so many Thanksgivings, um, you only have so many birthdays that you get to share together. And if you're thinking, oh, well, you know, uh it's just gonna go on forever, you know, and that's one of the problems with our our current society right now is that we have removed death so far from our consciousness that it that we tend to just think, yeah, things are just gonna keep on going forever the way they are. And that makes it that much more troublesome when reality strikes and we realize, oh, I I didn't have all the time that I thought I had. But this should be something that helps motivate us to take a closer look at our lives and what our priorities are, and also then to remind us that my my mom's gonna be around forever. Well, no, she's not. Or I I'm I'm gonna have no end of uh of opportunity to spend time with my son. Well, no, you're not gonna have, you know, there there is a limit to that. I mean, I'm I'm looking at a milestone birthday uh in in March, and you know, just realizing, okay, I'm gonna hit sixty here. And all right. How many years do I have left? You know, uh, even if I live to ninety, I've lived two-thirds of my life now.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

In our world, we call that circling the drain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Yeah, I just had a birthday and Bob sent me this email that said, well, uh, for life expectancy of women, you're halfway there now. Like, thanks, Bob. That was the most depressing birthday wish I've gotten.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

This is I'm known for my bedside manner.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

But um, you know, in a situation he one of the things he mentions in the article is that even if he succeeds in in becoming a father, and and the interesting thing is he doesn't mention that, you know, there's any prospect on in the pipeline, so to speak, of you know, it's like, okay, you know, what's what's it gonna be like for um my my child is is not gonna get to know his grandparents, probably, or at least not as well. And uh I'm probably going to be an older dad, which means I'm not gonna be there for all the things that I I should be there for as a dad. Uh and and this this is increasingly an issue now with with everybody having children so much later in life. There's a lady at the gym I go to who's uh I think she's only in her mid-40s and she's already a grandmother. Yeah, what a wonderful thing. She's gonna have so many years with her grandkids.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

But if I'm not ready. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

But but if you're you know, if you don't have your first children until you're in your late 30s or maybe even your forties, they're not gonna have much of a relationship with their grandparents. And uh it's gonna be one of those those things when you're not gonna have much of a relationship with your grandkids because there's just gonna be too much time there. Each new issue of Clearly Caring invites you to think deeply about the critical life issues of our time medical ethics, end-of-life care, family, and faith. Grounded completely in God's Word, this free periodical from Christian Life Resources helps readers navigate complex moral questions through a biblical lens. Read Clearly Caring free online or have it delivered directly to your home at no cost. Visit Christian LifeResources.com and look under publications for Clearly Caring.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

The crux of the article really was that uh there's a legacy. It just it continues on. And he was so profoundly influenced by his parents, and he saw that as such a great thing to to pass on. Now, uh as someone who has raised a few children, you're fairly convinced, you know, before you have children, that you're an expert on how on how everybody else should be raising their children. And then by the time your last one moves out, you felt like it was a train wreck. It's amazing they survived childhood. But then I watched my my children and their children interact with my parents and it provided hope. I mean, because I you know, I've often said that I had the you know, had the best parents in the world. I mean, my my parents were profoundly influential on my life and uh they were on my children's life. And my my one daughter a couple of months ago, because my dad passed away ten months ago, and my one daughter about three months ago, she said, you know, dad, you are the family patriarch now. Which of course reminded me of that little sign I got hanging in my workshop that says, you know, it's weird being the same age as old people. But the um but there is this legacy that you pass on, and and I feel that I did what I thought was my best in raising the kids, but doggone it, I sure hoped they watched closely how my dad did things and cared for my mom. I mean, I s I still remember one day uh going into the guest room and looking out the window, and my mom and dad had come back. And those of you who don't know, uh back in 2000 we built our houses together on adjoining lots. So I can look out my office window and the guest room window and see my parents' house. And I was watching my dad help my mom out of the car and up the steps, and I remember being so profoundly affected by that tenderness and that that compassion that I would say that that is like a running video stream in my head as I'm now the caregiver for Diane. And I I think that this is kind of what he was getting at. You know, I think out of the whole article, the part that struck me the most when is when he wrote about counting down the Christmases and the birthdays. Because that is how it works. You know, my my dad was 90 years old uh when he died, and he died unexpectedly, but um you would think at 90 it it would have been expected, except otherwise he was doing great. He was cognitively was completely with it, and uh he was looking to to be mowing the lawn the weekend that he died. That's how he was. And um and that affected the succeeding generations, and I think the people who knew him uh were the richer for it. And I think that that's kind of what he was what the message he was beginning to receive. Now there's a Christian perspective we can put on all this in terms of the role we have of teaching our children the things of God and what your worldview should be uh with God at the center of it. And he did not have that, but he had a lot of that relational stuff that is so profoundly positive in a world that is, I think, turning so profoundly negative.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Yeah, no, I I think too, yeah, when you talk about that that idea of inheritance and that, you know, it's not just the legacy that you're not just you know the money. Um and you know, I mean he said too, like he I'll I'll just read here from the article, it says like, I don't care about traveling anymore, I've seen enough. I don't care about my intellectual legacy, how many more essays do I really need to write? All I care now is uh being a good father. And so it just it's kind of like, yeah, what what really is life? I mean, you know, for us for a Christian perspective, we we get that and we understand that, and we we see God working in us through different things. But um for the secular world, yeah, like I think too, one thing that I got from this article was that there is this, even the secular world, I mean, especially them, um, this idea, the importance of family. We see it every year with all the Christmas stuff, and like, oh, the true meaning of Christmas is being together. It's family, it's that type of bond. And so, and you can see like in this article that that was was so important for the author. Like his family was so important, and um and and I don't know if that like kind of clouded him from the future, but then he realized that, oh, you know, family is important and I want to pass that on and be a part of that.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Yeah, and I think it touches again on that universal design that God has for us, that it could just as much be somebody who grew up with a really bad family situation or in essence, no family, being resolved that much more. I'm going to have kids and give them what I did not have. That still is that sense of, yeah, there there is something more that we were created for. God said, be fruitful and multiply right at the very beginning. It is part of our purpose. This is I just want to be clear, this is by no means to condemn people who are childless, particularly if they're unmarried, or to suggest that somehow they're living contrary to God's design or whatever. But the the overall purpose for humanity includes this. And we get to participate in that, which is a tremendous privilege. It just seems so strange to think that that we will think it's good and proper to say, eh no, I don't I don't think I want that, to this wonderful thing that that God has privileged us to be a part of.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Aaron Powell And I think too, one thing that was interesting about the article is I I had thought too, like, okay, I'm gonna be reading this article about a man who doesn't want to have kids. He must have had a terrible upbringing, right? And he didn't. Like he had a a great upbringing. And so it just shows to me how far this I I guess idea has seeped into our culture that no matter now whether you had a great family, you didn't have a great family, you can still really think that you don't want kids and that kids are a burden no matter what type of background you came from. I don't know, just that like it just it seems that that doesn't really matter anymore. You can have a great background, you can have a terrible background with your family, and you can still get to that place where you just view kids as a burden and you don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

You know, he um he made this one comment. He said, until I have children of my own, I still view myself as a child in some sense unfinished. And it's interesting because as a parent, you view your children still as children. I mean, I've got I've got children older than Krista, you know, and so which which is getting to be fewer and fewer. The odds are. But uh no, I got children older than Krista, but and yet you still see them as your children. And my parents oftentimes acted that way, even living next door. A lot of times uh some of our listeners may have heard me tell the story about uh when we took my parents out for dinner, it came time to pay for the meal, and immediately your dad, you know, my dad wanted to pay for the meal. By that time, you know, I had five children, I was head of an organization, had been a pastor for a number of years. By most people's standards, I'd been out on my own. But your parents still see you as the child. I thought it was interesting that he saw himself as the child. And I don't think I felt like a child at all once I moved out and started having children until my dad died. Then all of a sudden I felt all of the insecurities of a child. And yet your family, my my children, become an incredible support mechanism. And over the years I've encountered a number of couples who did not have children by choice. I agree with Jeff. You you know, there's we're not talking about the people who couldn't have children. We're talking about people who chose for one reason or another to to pursue their career, to travel, to do whatever they want. And then when it came time to wanting to have children, they found that they couldn't for whatever reason. And they felt insecure. They felt like who's going to take care of us? And that's gonna be, and it won't probably be on our this month's podcast on world events, but uh I do have it plugged into next month's already, where we're looking at how people are trying to find substitutions for physical flesh and blood, namely AI and stuff like that. And this guy genuinely longs for a flesh and blood legacy. And I I think Christianity uh can find this as a relationship or a a bridge to then talk to them about the ultimate flesh and blood relationship that we have in Christ.

hildren As Burden And Blessing

SPEAKER_02 25:22

I just find myself wondering in kind of a chicken and egg situation, you know, it's like this idea of children as a burden. I mean, that fits in very much with the pro-abortion argument. It's like, oh, well, you've got to have this right because you don't want to be saddled with a kid that you're you don't want or that you're unprepared for or whatever, because because children, they're they're just a hassle. They're just a burden. And then that relates to this idea of, well, yeah, you know, even when it's voluntary, you know, I I you know, it children are just gonna hold me back. They're just gonna keep me from enjoying life. And it's very self-centered point of view, but which fed which? Was it the pr pro abortion arguments more, you know, kind of trying to get that, or was it more this other idea of just kind of this me first idea that got very much into our society? I mean, which really, I mean, it's uh hardwired into human nature, but it it got acceptable to speak that way in in uh in our society within the last few generations. Yeah, I I I'm sure there there isn't really a causation theory, one came before the other, but it's you know, they happened at the same time. But it's just it's the kind of thing that it it's very helpful for us to recognize that this is what's going on, so that then we can counter that. There's uh I believe it's live action. One of the uh the pro-life organizations has been selling shirts and t-shirts that say, it's good that you're alive. And it's a very simple, basic pro-life message. But I think it addresses the same same kind of idea. It's like children are a blessing, they're not a burden. It is good to have children. And that is just not something that comes across anywhere near enough in our society today.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

When I when I read the article, all I could think about was that Nicolas Cage movie, The Family Man. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of you know, because he kind of went the route of being child-free, and then all of a sudden things flipped around for him.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

And it was just a very interesting thing and it came to mind when I And I mean, you know, the thing too, like about that movie, I mean, it it kind of was a process for him too to get to where he was at the end of the movie. I I mean, because I mean, I'll just say it too, like kids are a lot of work. I mean, it is, you know, like it just and it does change your life and it does things are just different. And but it is it it's such a blessing to be able to do it too.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

And I think that that's critical. Yeah. Right there. Is you know, I think a little bit of the shell game that goes on is when society keeps telling you your children can be a burden, or as I get older, I don't want to be a burden on others. The presumption is that first of all, burden is always bad. And and I don't think that's a valid uh presumption. Uh you know, Hadley Arks, no, I can't even think of where he's at now. But uh I heard him like 30 years ago give a presentation where he he made the statement, he goes, you know, we're always talking about trying to get rid of burdens and not being burdens. He goes, I'm convinced that the fabric of America is strengthened by its ability to carry burdens. And you just used the other B word, and that is, it's such a blessing. Carrying a burden sometimes has an incredible way of taming your evil inclination. You know, it's just like I just don't have time to get into trouble right now. You know, it's just but I mean why? Because I'm carrying so many burdens, and that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

It's kind of just like this ball of a lot of different stuff, you know, when you have kids. I mean, I just think about just even my experience like this past week or two, and it's like, okay, yeah, like you have kids that are sick or just things that are going on or things that limit you in certain ways, and then you know, but then like I'm sitting there last night in church next to my seven-year-old who is singing this beautiful hymn, and it is, I mean, it just like warms your heart, and it there's just nothing like it. I mean, it's just so I mean, it is, it's such a blessing. And so there's constantly things like that where it's like, yeah, you maybe have these hard moments or these hard things, but then you have this beautiful joy, or you see their face light up with this Christmas gift or going out for ice cream or whatever it is. And um, it's just it's all it's it's a package deal, really, with with all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah, burden burden carrying could be wonderfully rewarding. Christmas time is, and that's why though that phrase stuck out for me. Christmas time is always a very sentimental time for me because when I watch now I watch my children with their children, it's like just a constant rewinding of history. I'm always looking at the kids and thinking about when they were kids. We used to have this crazy practice and that when I would get the tree all decorated, before we'd put the skirt on and we'd put the nativity set underneath uh the tree, uh, I would uh all five girls and I would lie down on our backs and go under the tree and just look straight up the middle of the tree and I said, now blur your eyes a little bit. And it and it it got to the point that that the kids even talk about it, you know, this is 30, 40 years later, and stuff like that. And to get them to that point, there were a lot of messy diapers, there were a lot of sick kids, there were a lot of you know, having to adjust, you know, the bedrooms so that they could all get along and all fit in and all that kind of all these burdens. And if you were to ask me right now, you know, was it worth it? You bet. In fact, you could double all that I went through that we went through to raise them. And I would say it would have been worth it. But um what what I think Jeff has touched on a little bit is just seems to be our evil inclination seems to blind us the seeing and searching beyond the moment. Uh at best, you know, we we might look at how this pathway is going to be best for me, but you are never alone. You are never alone. And it's it's a social world, it's a social environment. And you may charge your own course, but you're always going to be interacting with people, including the legacy you leave, the children that that follow you. And if you're really going to be this wonderful impact on the world, can you imagine what what happens when you're populated with more little ones like you and they can carry it forward?

SPEAKER_03 31:51

Well, um uh thank you both for uh talking us through this article. And we um, you know, just encourage all of our listeners to um if you haven't had a chance, we'll link it. Um please take a look at it uh because really it is quite a quite an interesting um perspective too. Uh if you have any questions on this article, please let us know, and we'd be happy to get back to you. You can reach us at lifechallenges.us. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. We are very appreciative of all of our listeners, and we know that this is all made possible because you listen. So thank you so much for that, and um we look forward to seeing you back next time. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Thank you for joining us for the Life Challenges Podcast of Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it, and sharing it with friends. We're here to help. So if you have questions on today's topic or other life issues, you can submit them as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes at lifechallenges.us, or email us at podcast at ChristianLiferesources.com. You can find past episodes and other valuable information at lifechallenges.us, so please check it out. For more about our parent organization, please visit ChristianLiferesources.com. May God give you wisdom, love, strength, and peace in Christ for every life challenge.