This Will Not End in Death: Finding Hope in the Raising of Lazarus

In this episode, Christa, Bob, and Jeff explore John 11 and the powerful account of Lazarus. They unpack why Jesus delayed, the significance of a four-day death, and the unmistakable evidence of His authority over death. Through the honest grief of Mary and Martha, the conversation connects deep theological truth with real-life loss, doubt, and faith. They also examine hardened unbelief, even in the face of miracles, and reflect on how Jesus meets us in sorrow with compassion and truth. Ultimately, this episode points to lasting hope: in Christ, death is not the end, but a doorway to life.

Transcript

The Promise Behind The Story

SPEAKER_01 0:02

On today's episode.

Welcome And Why Lazarus Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:04

At the very beginning of this story, Jesus said, This sickness will not end in death. Take that kind of out of its context here of this story. Whether you're talking about sickness or or any other kind of trouble we might be going through, or just life itself, the Christian can hold on to that and say, This will not end in death. Because whether it's short term, yeah, his his heart is gonna give out in 30 minutes, or whether it's long term, you've got 40 more years left. Yes, you are going to die, but this isn't going to end in death. Welcome to the Life Challenges Podcast from Christian Life Resources. Our world today presents people with complicated issues of life and death, marriage and family, health, and science. It can be a struggle to understand or deal with them. We're here to help by bringing good information and a fresh biblical perspective to these matters and more. Join us now for Life Challenges.

John 11 Retold Scene By Scene

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Hi, and welcome back. I'm Christopotz and I'm here today with Pastors Bob Fleischman and Jeff Samelson. And today we are going to be talking about the accounts of Lazarus. We recently just did this if you're a member of a Wells Church, uh, might have been your sermon text uh the last week or so. But because uh of the the season that we're in, we are gonna talk about this account of the story of Lazarus, and we're gonna just go through it um uh and then um hopefully get to some application as well um as it relates to life and family issues. So with that, Jeff, would you start by summarizing this account for us?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

It's 53 verses. It's almost the entirety of John chapter um 11. The first verse, now a man named Lazarus was sick. That kind of tells you right there, okay, this is what the story is going to be about. And then after that, it does some identification. It's from Bethany, the village of Mary and and her sister uh Martha. It's funny, he is their brother, but that's not included right away in in that. But what makes this an interesting uh story just at first is we don't understand why things happen the way they do, because we know already that uh Jesus and Mary and Martha are very close, and Jesus is not in Bethany, he's over on the other side of the Jordan River at this time. And Mary and Martha send him a message saying our brother is sick, very sick, uh close to death. We're not told what message he gives to the messenger to to send back, but he waits two days before returning. And his disciples at first think, oh, well, that that just means things must must be going well. And it's not until right after he says, uh, okay, we got to go back now, that they understand, or he has to spell out for them, no, Lazarus has died. And so you can imagine they're kind of, okay, why are we going back then? You know, why didn't you try to get back sooner and all that? But Jesus does go back, and uh when he arrives in in Bethany, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. I will just take a step aside here and just say that that is significant, because with the timing of everything, that means that Lazarus probably died the day that Mary and Martha sent the messenger out to find Jesus, or maybe the next day. So it's it's not like his delay really made any difference in in things. But uh Martha hears that he's come, goes out to meet him, and some very uh comforting and famous uh words here, the interaction between them. Uh Martha says, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would would not have died, but I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask. Jesus said to her, Your brother will rise again. Martha answered, I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day. And Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live even though he dies, and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this? Yes, Lord, she told him, I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world. Very important, key passage there. But then Jesus goes out to the tomb. Martha tells Mary Jesus is looking for you. Mary meets him. She says exactly the same thing when she gets there. Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. And uh then Jesus gets to the tomb and he gives instructions for the stone to be rolled away from the tomb. And uh Martha, she points out to him, Lord, um, there's gonna be a stink. Because it's it's been four days. The body will have started to decompose by then. But uh then Jesus says, Lazarus, come forth, and Lazarus comes forth alive, and Jesus says, take off the grave clothes. But then the significant part after that is that uh Jesus' enemies, uh in the you know, the chief priests and the Pharisees and such, they hear about this. Instead of being convinced, wow, this this man actually has power to raise people who've been dead for four days, maybe we should put our faith in him, they say, Ah, this is all the more reason we need to kill him.

Four Days Dead And No Doubt

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I would just add now uh to this that there are ten resurrection accounts in the Bible. What makes this story unique is and I might be wrong, but this is the one in which decomposition is is central to it. Four days, you know, that kind of stuff. And part of it has to do with the cynicism that's part of our evil nature. It's amazing when you read the writings out there where people try to explain away what's going on with this this miracle and that miracle, you know, raising of Tabitha, the widow of Naon, you know, all of those stories. Well, they weren't really dead. They maybe had a medical condition, or they maybe were in a coma-like trance, something like that. So we get this story right kind of near the end of Jesus' ministry, pretty shortly before the Garden of Gethsemane, and it's like there's there's no doubt. I mean, we're we're talking all of the evidence you could possibly want for death, which is advanced decomposition. Four days of decomposition in this climate is dramatic. Um it's a warm climate. I did I did some deep dive studying on it, and you clearly have some problems because of the heat, because of everything. So you've got clearly I I've I felt that that's something important because we have a here a resurrection that defies any reasonable explanation. The other thing that I think is interesting that uh is easy to overlook is that the sisters say, Well, we know there'll be a resurrection on the last day. And I remember that first time that I read this story and they made that comment, that always caught me off guard because we know that because we're post-resurrection, we're we're post-Easter, but they aren't. They're pre-Easter. And so there was something about the instruction that they had gotten about this. And uh the other thing that ties into this is Jeff had had mentioned right at the beginning of the summary that Mary and Martha Jesus had encountered them before, and that's the story of you know, Martha, Martha, you know, why do you why do you fret over all this? Mary is is taking the one thing needful. There's something kind of unique about Mary's personality that seems to really be soaking this up about everything that Jesus is saying. So that that has happened. Then we are introduced to Lazarus with with his sickness, he dies. Mary has taken a lot of this to heart, but there's a level of faith and conviction in the sisters that uh uh that taught them that death was not the end. And the reason I I want to emphasize that is that uh much of what we do in our work at CLR has to do with people who act as if we're facing death. It's all over. And you've got here Barry and Martha who recognize that that's not the case.

Faith Before Easter And Hard Hearts

SPEAKER_02 8:26

That is one of the thing the things that critics will sometimes say about Christianity that you know they will say, well, yeah, this this whole thing of you know, all pretty much all this life after death stuff that was post-Christ. That wasn't something that the Old Testament believers believed. And it's like, no, actually, there's plenty of stuff in the Old Testament that suggested it. It's just we didn't have the detail uh in in you know the Hebrew scriptures that we that we have in in the Greek New Testament. I just wanted to go back to um you know what you're talking about with the thing that makes this resurrection story unique being the long time. There apparently was a Jewish idea or or custom that said that the soul sticks around the body for three days, and after that, that's when the soul then goes where it's going, and then the um decomposition will set in and things like that. So it doesn't explicitly say this in scripture, but if that is the case, that then reinforces the point Bob was making about this is Jesus saying, You're not gonna come up with any stories about somebody just being in a trance or not being completely dead, it's not gonna be a princess bride kind of situation of being only mostly dead or anything like that. This was somebody who was unequivocally dead. And Jesus still called this person forth, brought his soul back from from heaven and reanimated his body and and brought him back. And it it's interesting that one of the first things Jesus said to his uh his disciples, you know, when he got the message that uh Lazarus was sick, uh, he said, This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory, so that God's Son may be glorified through it. Everything Jesus had been doing up until this point, the preaching and the teaching, but you know, uh particularly the miracles, these were things were for God's glory, and they they glorified him in that sense. But this was kind of the icing on the cake. This was somebody that had been dead for four days, and there was no disputing it. There are plenty of witnesses to all of this. And think also the effect that this should have had on his followers when Jesus himself died, that they should have remembered, hey, this is the same Jesus who showed he had absolute power over death. Maybe we should remember all those things he said about himself rising from the dead and and hold on to those. We know from the gospel accounts that yeah, for the most part, they all forgot all those things. But then after the fact, they and now we can look at this and say, absolutely. Yeah, this is somebody who has complete power and authority over death. And if I'm trusting him, I'm trusting the right person.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah. No, I mean, and I think, you know, to Bob's point too, we always, I mean, just as people do I I mean, even as believers, like there is that the death is the end type of thing. And or like, this is the last time I'm gonna see this person on earth. And and there is, you know, uh obviously an incredible sadness to it. And I think too, I I mean, there's you know, accounts right or or just uh commentaries, I guess, like even just with with Judas selling um Jesus for the 30 pieces of silver, not thinking that he would actually be put to death, like that he he'd somehow maybe get out of it or or something could happen. And his disciples had seen all of these miracles and just maybe didn't even think death would even be a possibility for him. Um, but yeah, we see in in this account that he has taken care of death and it it's amazing. And I always kind of go too like to just the the Pharisees and the other people watching. For them, this was the point where they I guess like kind of banded together again and were like, okay, now we've really got to get rid of this guy. That was the moment for them where they just I I mean, I kind of wonder too, if Jesus hadn't raised Lazarus, I mean, how much longer maybe it would have this would have just kind of been the status quo, like Jesus kind of going around doing the stuff, the Pharisees not liking it. I mean, this was a very big action point for those people.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah. And it is interesting that, you know, we we we are told that um they start think, okay, maybe we need to kill this Lazarus too, because you know, he he's evidence. You know, it's like didn't work the first time, but but um, you know, it is it is interesting, it's ironic, could even call it amusing, that earlier in Jesus' ministry, these enemies of his were coming and and they were saying, What sign will you show us to prove that you are you know who you you know, people say you are? Um and he refuses. You know, he's he's not gonna perform for them just because they demand. But you know, their idea is, you know, the the principle is, well, you you need to establish with some miraculous sign that that you are who you are. Now, here at the end, we see that that was all nonsense on their part because they uh have unmistakable evidence and they're not denying any of it. They're they're not saying this didn't happen. They're saying, well, this did happen, so what are we gonna do about it? And and shows that their their entire idea here, their their whole entire point is just we want to get rid of this guy because he's a threat to us. And I think one of the interesting things another interesting thing about that is that these leaders didn't just not believe in Jesus. They also um had no faith that God would take care of his people, because the way that they are rationalizing all of this is saying if Jesus causes problems, then the Romans are gonna come in and they're gonna take our country away from us. They have no faith that the Lord that they say they are serving is actually gonna come through for them. And it's just kind of an interesting parallel there to the way so many people, even today, they give lip service to having faith in God while they're opposing the gospel. But they really reveal themselves through that opposition to be without faith, saving faith or or otherwise.

Willful Blindness When Death Gets Real

SPEAKER_00 14:53

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SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah, and I really I really like the back and forth between Martha and Jesus, because you can see Martha she keeps giving uh honestly like good answers, and Jesus keeps getting her to the next stage. And I I think you know that that is just it's neat too because I know I've talked on the podcast too of going through grief and that process. And you you know, I mean, for me, like I mean, I very much knew that and know that my dad's in heaven and that I'll see him again, and you know, and you know all these things, but you are just uh like fighting those feelings too of of of doubt. And so you're just you know, you're kind of like saying the right things, doing the right things, and and God's helping you kind of get to the next step and and see that. And that is just I I really appreciate that exchange there and um and seeing how Martha is uh and how how Jesus is guiding her to the next the next thing.

Jesus Guides Grief With Truth

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Yeah, and we see so much of Christ's character as in a way that we can grab hold of it in in this this story. Right at the beginning, what I read just a moment ago about you know it is for God's glory, John says, Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus straight out, and then the most famous verse in the Bible in many respects, because it is the shortest, and therefore people can memorize it and say, Ha, I know a Bible verse. When Jesus was heading to the tomb and he saw everyone how they were all troubled, Jesus wept. And there's lots of discussions, like, okay, well, you know, why was he crying? What what was this about? But what we see here is we saw already at the very beginning of this the incident that Jesus knew what he was going to do. He was going to teach a powerful lesson with what was happening here. He knew he was going to raise the Lazarus from the dead, even if nobody else did. So, you know, he absolutely knew that, you know, in a very short time he was going to see Lazarus alive and be able to hug him and you know or or laugh with him or whatever. But even while he had this purpose in mind and this knowledge in mind, he wasn't uncaring. We can be that way sometimes. I I think men especially sometimes like we know where we're headed, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, forget about all this emotional stuff. I'm just I know where I'm going with this. But Jesus looked at how much death had torn up these people that he loved. How Martha was feeling, how Mary was feeling, how all these other mourners were feeling, and he saw the effects of sin in this way, and it moved him to tears. He cares about this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Which you then see in inspiration through Paul when he writes to the Thessalonians. I don't want you to be ignorant about those who have fallen asleep. Because he saw that too. It is it is interesting, you know. That I have never forgotten that conversation you and I had on that phone. Because I always remember you telling me, now, Bob, this is more than an academic exercise. Because Jeff and I have been friends for a while, so he knows how I think. And I I was so mad at you when you said that because you were spot on. I you know, I had I had I had everything was so academically thing, and and you had expose the the wound, tore the scab off. And as as we circle around the Easter season, I I think all of us either have or will experience death, loss, and eventually our own. And my my board chairman once said to me when when uh one of my my closest friends uh had died, he said to me, he goes, You've j you've really been isolated from from death. You know, at that time my parents were alive, you know, and and I had no deaths of close relatives. I'd lost my grandparents, but they were not real close, and I had lost a a friend or two, but no. Nothing like this. Well, now all of a sudden the death is now hitting closer to home. You know, my father had died. Now Diane's got this terminal condition. And all of a sudden it isn't, it's it's more than academic. It becomes real. And and Jesus said, you know, you don't have to worry about that, because I've taken care of that. And I think we need we need to have that kind of reality back in the church because we've I I fear that sometimes we've lost that among a lot of people. Because I've I've sat down with a number of people who have said to me, I I don't know why God did this. You know, I why did God take my son or my daughter? Because it's especially painful when it comes to children. But we but we we lose sight of the fact that, you know, even the apostle Paul said, I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far. I don't know how you want to translate that out of the Greek, but it always comes out the same way. You know, it's it is the better of the two options. But he says, But I gotta stick around for your benefit. And so when people say, well, why is it taking so long for me to die? Or why am I going through it like this? That's because somebody is being trained. It's for somebody else's benefit. And uh there's been more than a few times that I think both Diane and I have said to God, okay, I we think training's done now, you know, but but but no, and it's it's uh such a it's such a meaningful portion of scripture within the whole context of talking about the resurrection of Jesus, you know, and that and I d I just always found it so inspirational that the sisters already got it. They already knew, but they were also having trouble. I mean, there's just a processing. If you had been here sooner, he'd be alive.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I mean, even that statement's pretty remarkable.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Even when you know, you know, I mean, walking through grief and things uh as a Christian, and you know, and you know that God has your best interest and that he had, you know, your loved ones' best interests, and that he loves you and cares about you, you just experience it in a very human nature, and you constantly are just needing God to to take you through it.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Well, and I found myself, you know, it's it's not the way I would have done it. I mean, you think that all the time. It's you know, in the movie Um The Shack, uh there's this real gripping scene, you know, where he he encounters wisdom uh in this cave. And wisdom basically says, Oh, okay, well, here, you come up here and you sit in this chair, now you decide, you know, does this person go to eternal destruction? Does that person go to eternal destruction? It's this very challenging thing. And so I've I've laid in bed and I'm gone. Okay, now how would I have done this differently? Because if we're all if if we all will die, how would I have done it differently? I'm still working on it. I I'm I I'm I keep thinking to myself, I would have done it differently, but I really can't come up with a better way.

“This Will Not End In Death”

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Many times I I find myself praying about something, you know, maybe something going on in the world, and I find myself getting pretty specific about, okay, this is what what I think, you know, what what what I want you to do, God. And then I just kind of have to stop and just kind of say, just fix it. Please alert, just I you you know uh there's a problem, I'm drawing it to your attention. Please do something about it. You know, because I just realized I don't know what what it needs. Whatever it is, it's not going to be what I thought it should be. And then you know, that's just just a general you know let lesson for life. But um there's one thing that I I I wanted to further draw out from this this uh story that oh, you talked about uh how much you like the the interaction between Jesus and and Martha. And and there's that you know, that that interesting thing that that she gives this great confession of faith. You know, I believe in the resurrection, my brother will rise again. What she doesn't understand at that point is Jesus saying, actually he's gonna rise again now, you know, not you know, and there'll be another one later too, but you know, she's got that faith, but it's like with what Jesus says about the end times that you don't know whether what you're looking at is something that's really close or whether it's something far in the distance, but you know it's the real. At the very beginning of this story, I read it earlier, Jesus said, This sickness will not end in death. Take that kind of out of its context here of this story. Whether you're talking about sickness or or any other kind of trouble we might might be going through, or just life itself, the Christian can hold on to that and say, This will not end in death. Because whether it's short term Yeah, his his heart is gonna give out in in thirty minutes, or whether it's long term, you've got forty more years left. Yes, you are going to die, but this isn't going to end in death. Death will be an intermediate step along the way, but because you are going to be in glory forever with living forever with Jesus in in in heaven, that's the end. Death isn't the end. Death is the intermediate. And that's something that we can all take hold of. It's like we're so scared of dying. But when we can take hold of this, this will not end in death. We realize that's not the end. There's something beyond comparison, beyond that. And um I I th I mean having that perspective changes so much for us as Christians.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

When people contact me and they'll say, um I've got a loved one and they want to know, do we do this, do we do that in the hospital or nursing home, you know, do we resuscitate, not resuscitate. I try to kind of recalibrate them to uh to kind of get their their view on things. And I want to make sure that they understand exactly what Jeff said, that this is just intermediary. I look back, my my father, it's almost a year now. It's probably pretty close to a year since my father died unexpectedly of that heart attack. And uh would I have liked him around yet? You bet I would. My father was my longest friend. We did all sorts of things together and we lived next door to each other and you know, did the workshop and everything. So you you you think about that. But it's not the end. But the the problem is you get caught up in a live for this world type mentality, which is what we are inclined to do because you're so indoctrinated. I mean, even Christian parents, you know, some of the first things that Christian parents will do is immediately set up a college fund for their child or you know, start this$1,000 retirement fund and all that kind of stuff for life on this world. But really, when you step outside of that, you do find out kind of the edges. I I always say it's kind of like where the thin ice is in your faith. You find out that, oh, I guess I was living for this world a little bit too much, you know. And uh and that's kind of when I talk with people, I try to get them to to maybe realize that. You do realize that your mother is was going to die. If it's not tomorrow, it it could be two years from now or something, right? Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I go, so what does that mean? And that's the point you want to get people to.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Mm-hmm.

Final Hope And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_01 29:20

In in closing, too, I just love those words that Jesus speaks um to Martha when he says to her, I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live even though they die. And whoever lives by believing in me will never die. What powerful words those are. And to know that we live because of Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah, I often I often wondered what life was like the the next years after this. Jesus went to heaven and everything. What what life was like around the Mary Martha and Lazarus home? Kind of like, hey, do you remember when you remember that one day? It's pretty remarkable. And and we're told it's true, and there's just there's all sorts of supporting evidence, even though the story of the raising of Lazarus is only recorded in the Gospel of John, all the supporting evidence for Old and New Testament for it is is remarkable for people who take the time to study it.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Well, thank you both for this discussion today, and we thank all of our listeners too. We we know that um this is this episode is coming out in Holy Week, so we ask uh Lord's blessings on your Easter as well. And if you have any questions on this episode or any others, you can reach us at lifechallenges.us. We'll see you back next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Thank you for joining us for the Life Challenges Podcast from Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it, and sharing it with friends. We're here to help. So if you have questions on today's topic or other life issues, you can submit them as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes at lifechallenges.us, or email us at podcast at ChristianLiferesources.com. You can find past episodes and other valuable information at lifechallenges.us, so please check it out. For more about our parent organization, please visit Christianliferesources.com. May God give you wisdom, love, strength, and peace in Christ for every life challenge.