Finding Rest in Christ’s Humanity and Deity

We talk with Pastor Jeremy Husby about why Jesus being fully God and fully human changes how we face suffering, fear, and loneliness. We find comfort in a Savior who plans every detail with divine power and still walks beside us with real human compassion.

Transcript

Opening Promise Of Rest

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On today's episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

And he is able to not only overcome all of those things for himself, but says to me, Come to me when you're weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. He's able to say to me, I'm gonna carry you through this one. Because I know what it's like. You're not alone. I don't love you any less because of what you have been thinking. I don't love you any less because of what you have done. I don't love you any less because of this situation that either you took yourself into or the situation that was thrust upon you. I still love you so completely. And I'm right here with you.

Show And Guest Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Welcome to the Life Challenges Podcast from Christian Life Resources. Our world today presents people with complicated issues of life and death, marriage and family, health, and science. It can be a struggle to understand or deal with. We're here to help by bringing good information and a fresh biblical perspective to these matters and more. Join us now for Life Challenges.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Hi, and welcome back. I'm here today with Pastor Bob Fleischman, and we have a special guest with us today. Today we have Pastor Jeremy Hughesby here with us. Um welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah, we have a great topic to talk about today. Um, but before we get uh into the topic, we'd love to have you tell us a little bit about yourself and yeah, your connection to CLR and Bob and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Okay. So I am one of the pastors over at Peace Lutheran in Hartford, Wisconsin. I say one of because we have three and a half pastors. I've been serving there since 2008. I was assigned there right out of seminary. I'm happily married to my wife Courtney, and that actually comes into play with some of the connection with uh Pastor Fleischman. Uh, we have a daughter. Uh, she is Layla. She is 17 years old and enjoying her summer right now. But I've known Pastor Fleischmann since I became pastor at Peace. But then also that uh, like I said, that connection became even stronger when uh Courtney and I got married and found out that Pastor Fleischman was actually the pastor that confirmed her. I am on the board for uh Christian Life Resources. I'm also serve on one of the committees, the Ethics Committee. So I've been doing the Ethics Committee for about a year now, and I have served on the board now for about six months. Uh time flies when you're having fun. So it seems like just yesterday signed up for that.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

So I know too, as being Bob's pastor, you've been over here to the house, and we've talked about Diane on the podcast and everything too. And I think it was kind of one of those times that you came over here that really helped um inspire what we're gonna talk about today, too, and and the episode.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Well, and to tie it in a little bit, Jeremy has a uh a unique perspective in the way he approaches things. And what I what I've always appreciated about Jeremy's approach is that he sees things in a text. I could read the text multiple times and not see it, and then all of a sudden and he was over giving a devotion. It's always been a little bit of surreal experience with Diane's condition. We're not able to go out to church. So I I Jeremy is the one who comes over and does shut-in visits with us. So it's really weird when you're active pastor and you're getting shut-in visits. But um he did a devotion the one time, and uh I found so many connections with the way he presented it and what he talked about to the life and family issues we deal with, and and just that reminder of um how incredible it is to be a follower of Jesus Christ. So that's where it came from. It was uh one of his more recent uh visits came here, and and I remember I think I contacted you and I said, Wow, and I don't want mean to sound surprised like he really did a good job. But he but he it was just really impressive. And I thought, let's get a little bit more mileage out of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Yeah.

Finding Fresh Meaning In Scripture

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Well, today's topic, we're gonna talk about finding comfort in the humanity and deity of Christ. And I'm real excited and interested to talk about this too, because as people who've listened to the podcast will know, I mean, I've gone through grief and and things myself. And it was one of those things too, where I I realized kind of like in in the thick of these moments, that one of the things that really stood out to me, I I mean, I think so many times people, you know, just say, like, oh, when you're in these really heavy, hard moments of life, I I mean, just keep keep heaven focused, like keep, keep the focus on heaven. And and um, and I think that is obviously awesome. It's the end game for us, you know, in in this, in this life too. But one of the things that was so comforting to me was to see Jesus and to realize that Jesus had gone through these things in his own life and to see that human connection that I had with Jesus in these really hard moments. And so, and so yeah, so when this episode kind of came through, I was like, oh, this is great. This is, you know, something that I'm really looking forward to talking about here. Do you have maybe just any kind of general thing to kind of get us going on this topic that you'd like to mention?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Sure. I think that there's so often reading through the scriptures and uh and especially the accounts that we've heard over and over again, you you begin to know what to expect and and think you know what to expect. And so it just becomes sometimes the same old story over and over again. Uh for for the majesty of hearing Luke 2 being read on Christmas Eve, you know that account. And so there are certain things that you just wait for it to come and you wait for it to come and you wait for it to come. Uh but then there are also times where you're able to step back and hear something that strikes you different that one time. And and why it strikes you different that time maybe because of something that you're going through in your personal life, something that you've been thinking about in your professional life. And for one reason or another, that that one phrase

The Donkey And Divine Planning

SPEAKER_01 6:13

sticks out. And for me, uh the uh as I was preparing to come and make a visit uh here, I was thinking about those occasions when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the donkey, uh, and and when Jesus was uh preparing the upper room for when he um was going to celebrate the Lord's Supper with his disciples. Those are accounts that especially as a pastor, I've I've heard over and over again that I've preached on over and over again, um, but for one reason or another, uh something stuck out the la the last time that I I was preparing to come over here and visit. When I think about the way that everything fell into place for Jesus to ride that donkey, when I think about all the things that had to fall into place for Jesus to prepare with his disciples to celebrate Holy Communion for the very first time, there's a lot of planning that happens. And it got me thinking all the way back to the creation of the world where God decides to create a donkey. Certainly he needed he wanted something for his people to have as a beast of burden. Certainly he wanted the the beauty of his creation to be reflected in the different animals that that and their relationship with the human beings and how human beings can use them to subdue the world and all of those different things. But to know that because he is God, he knew even then as he's creating this donkey that he was going to have Solomon ride on a donkey. He knew that he was going to have a person write a prophecy about how the Savior of the world was going to ride on a donkey. And then he knew that his own son was going to ride on a donkey amidst the praise and the shouts and the happiness of the people. And that type of planning that for us as human beings, we can't even come close to comprehending all of that planning that went into the place for that one thing to happen. As I was coming over here today and thinking about it, I was thinking about Pastor Fleischmann, I was thinking about your workshop. And you've got so many different things going on in there. And I'm sure here and there you have scrap pieces, right? And you keep those scrap pieces because you might be able to use them again in the future for something else.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

And some would say way too many scrap pieces.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

But to imagine that as you are creating your project, those aren't scrap pieces, but those are pieces that you have specifically cut off from this project because you have another project coming, and knowing that you're going to use that specifically for this other thing. And maybe that second project with this so-called scrap piece isn't going to happen for thousands of years, but you have it ready and waiting for when it's going to be used. That's what our God did from the creation of the world and even before the creation of the world, as he has all of this planned so that Jesus can ride on a donkey. Seeing these accounts, again, that that we know so well, that we've heard over and over again, uh, just come into play when you think about the divinity of our God, when you think about his awesomeness and his omniscience, that he knows all things and that he is all powerful, and so he can create them in order to have all of this happen. It's just mind-boggling in that way, just again, to think about the divinity of Jesus, that as he in human form, as a true human being, knows that this donkey that his disciples are going to go and ask the owner for was created specifically for this purpose. It's amazing, mind-boggling.

The Upper Room And Passover Details

SPEAKER_02 10:01

You uh also mentioned the upper room, too. What what kind of things do you think about with with that?

SPEAKER_01 10:08

I I think uh again, with uh um sticking again for right now strictly on the divinity, uh looking at Jesus and having him have this knowledge that there are going to be three festivals a year where every Jewish male who is ceremonially clean has to go back to Jerusalem to celebrate these three festivals. And they're going to do that for thousands of years until the time comes when Jesus is going to come for the purpose of celebrating this meal, and he's going to have someone who lives in the area and has an upper room and is going to have it furnished and ready so that he can celebrate this meal with his disciples. And oh, yeah, by the way, in order to have everything set and know what they are going to have at the table so that he can in uh institute holy communion, he's going to have this Passover where he delivers his people from their slavery in Egypt, where he's going to make sure that they know that they're going to have unleavened bread, where he knows that they're going to have wine in goblets that they're going to pass around the table. All of these little details that he put in place centuries before it happened, so that when he is there, he can say to his disciples, go to this place, he'll show you the room, and he'll let us eat there. All of those details in place, again, the the scrap pieces that he cut off from the celebration of Passover so that it could be used so many centuries later. It's amazing to think about all of that accuracy.

Escaping One Verse Faith

SPEAKER_03 11:50

And that's exactly the point that I made at the outset, and that is that you get so accustomed to the familiar stories. One of the things that I I began to think about when I was listening to Jeremy uh in this devotion is that because he was doing exactly what he just did, and that is he was he was talking about the whole book. You know, we all of a sudden we're talking about the prophecies that came through Zechariah and uh going back into the uh creation of the world and the creation of the beast of burden and all that kind of stuff. And you know, when I was a student at the SEM, I don't know if they were doing that when you were there, but when I was a student at the SEM, they used to always warn against what's called bumper sticker theology, kind of slogan theology, like one verse, you know, God is love or something like that, and you miss an enormous amount of richness. When you take a step back, and uh kind of like you said too, i it's an event that oftentimes triggers it. The experience that Diane and I are going through with her um terminal uh brain cancer um is, you know painful. It's long. I mean, the odds of her having survived this long are remarkable. I mean, that statistically, if you look up the statistics, it's like less than 10% have lived this long. And but for us, it's every day. So sometimes you're trying to find deeper meaning and so forth, and all of a sudden you find there's this treasure trove of meaning that you just kind of slide it over. Why? Because every Palm Sunday he rides in on a donkey. It's just uh there's always palm branches, there's always proud thing, and there's you start thinking the backstory, and then you c you get away from bumper sticker theology and you begin to look at the full story. Uh I think there's such richness.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

You you mentioned the deity with Christ in in these moments. Can you speak a little bit to the humanity in these stories

Humanity That Chooses The Cross

SPEAKER_02 13:41

too?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Aaron Powell Yeah. And when when I think about the the divinity, it it gives me this sense of awe and the and this sense of how powerful our our God is and and how smart our God is. And and those are excellent features to to focus on in different situations. But when you begin to consider his humanity, to me, that's when you begin to consider all the more his compassion, his his love. Because for a person to have all of that knowledge, to have all of those details in place and to know that he is doing them, that he is going to go through with all of his actions, all of the fulfillments of all of the prophecies, and know exactly where it leads him as a human being. Because ultimately it leads to him being spit on. He's going to ride on that donkey that was placed there for that specific purpose. And yeah, he's going to get praised. But then in a couple of days, he's going to have those same people put a crown of thorns into his skin, and he's actually going to feel it poking through and and causing blood to bleed. He's going to go up in this upper room and and say to them, This is my body, this is my blood, shed for you, because the next day he's going to be shedding his blood. He knows all of that going through, and he still does it. For for these people who are so often paying him lip service and ignoring the things that he's saying, focusing on when, when he's finally going to bring the kingdom back to Israel and having all of these wrong ideas, and then and then he does it anyway. And then on top of that, to recognize that he didn't just do it for those disciples, that he didn't do it just for the crowds that were surrounding him in Jerusalem on the donkey, but that he does it for me, knowing, because again, he he has this omniscience, and he knew that 2,000 years into the future there was going to be this guy who was more concerned about the Detroit Tigers than about him. Um there was going to be this which requires its own level of forgiveness. Um so often this person who gets paid to read the scriptures and so often finds other things to occupy his time instead. This person who who so often is is doing his own version of spitting in his face, and Jesus says, No, I'm going to do this, even though I know it's going to cause me the most excruciating physical pain, even though I know that you will so often deny me and sin against me and all of those things, I'm going to do that because I love you. And he says that to me personally, and then he says it to each and every other person who has ever lived and who will ever live. That is the compassion and the love and the care that comes out in the human nature of Jesus, that he is just like me, that he knows the fear and the pain and the struggle, and he says I'm going to do it anyway, all out of love. And that no amount of struggles and and pains that I'm going through can for me overcome that love and compassion that he sends. No matter how hard I have it, I I look and I see his love is more. His mercy is more.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Remember a few weeks back I mentioned about that movie The Young Messiah, where they they filled in the absent part of Jesus' life as a child and what it is. And but they there's this one gripping scene when you were describing how you know he's going through this, but knowing there's this one gripping scene where he's a boy, I don't know, maybe ten or so. Uh I don't think he quite was up to twelve yet, but he's coming into Jerusalem and they have executed prisoners hanging on crosses on the road coming into Jerusalem. And he pauses for a moment and looks up and it's great cinematography, it's great directing, but the camera just focuses on the boy's face, and you could just read in his face the knowledge that comes, the omniscience that comes in uh in the setting of humanity of knowing both. In addition, Jeremy will do the incredible sermons on a Sunday. He also does these little devotional things that's on the website, and he'll talk about, well, you know, when you when you look at, well, how am I going to turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then you listen, you get reminded that the omniscience of of Christ uh knew what was happening 2,000 years into the future when we walk, and it allowed the humanity of Christ to say, I'm gonna endure it. Um it's I mean, it's it is transforming.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Yeah, you know, and kind of playing off a little bit of that too, thinking about our life challenges and the things we talk about on the podcast here too. Well, let's maybe talk about Jesus' deity first. How does Jesus' deity give us confidence that he is not only able to sympathize with us, but also able to help us and guide us in in these things that we face?

Omniscience That Calms Anxiety

SPEAKER_01 19:16

What comfort indeed. Well, one of one of my favorite parts of uh studying a text in preparation for preaching is looking for the problem. What what's what's the what's the problem that Jesus solves for us this week? And going through and seeing why why do we face this problem? What is causing us this issue? And as we face the variety of problems and challenges that we go through in our life, I think that they all center around a couple of closely related details. And that is uh number one, that we as human beings don't have as much control as we wish we did. And then number two, again, closely related to that, is the fact that because we don't have control over everything, there's so much unknown. Because I can't control the outcome of events, because I can't control other people's emotions. Maybe my career is in jeopardy because I'm putting in all the work that I can, but I'm not seeing the results that I want. Maybe my relationships are having trouble because the way that I see things is absolutely right. And I can't just convince everyone else to see it the way that I see it. All of those different issues surrounded around not having control and so much I don't know what's going to happen. If I could control the way that the medicine works, if I could control the way that the doctor's treatments will will solve this problem that I'm that I'm struggling with, or what's going to happen in the future based on this diagnosis or or whatever sickness I'm going through, I don't know. And so not only am I feeling the physical pain and the challenges that come with that, but then I have all this emotional wreckage that continues to wreak havoc on my life and my thoughts and my emotions and my heart. There is someone that knows all things, and there is someone who is in control of all things. There is someone who at any moment can speak the word and it happens. He says, Let there be, and there is. He knows before the creation of the world how many hairs are going to be on my head thousands of years later. Um He knows all things, and He promises that He's going to work all things for my good, which then gives me the confidence to say, even when I can't control it, even when I don't know what's going to happen, the one who loves me does. And that to me is the biggest confidence that you could give to anyone when when I'm feeling powerless knowing that there is someone who is powerful. Um the sometimes it is as simple as the Jesus loves me, this I know, because when I am weak, he is strong. And the unfortunate part of humanity is that so often it takes us getting to the weakest points until we can finally realize that we need his strength. And thankfully he has it. The challenge for a pastor is to try and get people to remember that, not just on on the weekend uh for for one hour, but to how how can I have this reminder in my life over and over and over and over and over again that he is in control. He does know and he's going to work it out for my good. And he has the power to do it.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah. I think too, there's so many times where we feel like it's out of our control. And so that makes you just think in general, this is out of control, right? But um, I mean, in those moments, we still have somebody who is in control of it all, even when it feels like it's completely out of control.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

And and to go back to what we were talking about earlier, the same, the same deity who uh made sure that there was going to be a donkey in Jerusalem, the same deity that made sure that there was going to be an upper room and that there was going to be a Passover celebration, he's the one who made sure that there were doctors at this hospital, this particular doctor, even at this hospital. He's the one who made sure that there was uh uh this woman who was living down the street from her cousin, uh, so that when I went over for a bonfire, I could meet her. Uh there's this same deity that that knows all of the details that will lead up to me having the care and concern that he has for me and and and me receiving that in the way that he knows is best. I I don't know how you could have any more comfort than knowing that the one who has all those details and the power to make all those details fall into place promises that he's going to. And he's kept every promise so far.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

One of the travels that we go through in life's experience is kind of that that harsh reality that no matter how good you are, there's just always these

Trusting God When We Second Guess

SPEAKER_03 24:19

deficits. You know, there's there's other areas, you know, right now I'm I'm helping over at my mom's house because um uh we've had this little plumbing catastrophe. Okay, now there's a lot of things I know about house and everything. I also can tell you I hate plumbing. I don't just like not like it. I I hate it, and I'm not, I don't feel I'm good at it. Okay, so you bring in a plumber and you trust. So the plumber knows what he's doing, and and you just it's it's like blind acceptance. The plumber tells you, you gotta do this and you gotta do that, and this is what I'm gonna do, and everything's gonna be fine. And you do it. We accept this in other areas of life. It's interesting in our relationship with God how often we start second, I like I never second guess the plumber. And yet I find myself second guessing God all the time. And we do that. We say, well, that's not how I would have done it. Or if it were me, this is how I would do it. You know, one of the things that you get to deal with in ethics and bioethics, the it's the uh the perennial problem of evil. You know, why is there evil in the world? If God is so great, God's so powerful, why does he allow evil to happen and so forth? And you you finally come down to the element of faith, you know, and that is just because I don't get it, doesn't mean that God doesn't see something far greater, far more wonderful, far you know, more majestic in it all. And he says he does, but we don't, you know, I I was thinking when you were talking earlier about Psalm 23, um, which is often translated as, you know, I'll do it in the King James, you know, yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. But you know, any of us who've been trained in Hebrew knows the word death is not there, because what it says is though I walk through the darkest valley, which is, you know, it's also a phrase the way they refer to death sometimes. But it talks about a lot of things. Well, one thing about a dark valley is there's all sorts of things you don't see, you don't know, you don't know what's up ahead. But you don't have to worry because I am with you. That's the stuff that comes out a lot, like when I hear you preach and do devotions.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

There really is so much there when talking about the divine nature of Christ and how that can help us in our life challenges. But I also want to go back to the humanity too. How does that aspect really help us when we're going through difficult times?

You Are Not Alone With Jesus

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I think that along with the um idea that it's so hard to not have control over a situation, the idea that it may be so hard because of all of the unknowns. One of the other ones that is uh certainly an epidemic in uh in our country is the idea of loneliness, that no one else knows what I'm going through, that I don't have anybody that I can talk to, that I don't have anybody that that will understand me and and the that the problem that I'm facing, that the real problem that I'm hiding from everybody else, no one else understands, nobody else knows, I feel so alone. And the great news about Jesus is that not only, again, does he have that omniscience and and the power over all things, but he also is a human being who knows what it feels like to have people not like him. He knows what it feels like to experience physical pain. He knows what it feels like to go through all of the temptations that that we face on a daily basis, and he is able to not only overcome all of those things for himself, but says to me come to me when you're weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. He's able to say to me, I'm gonna carry you through this one because I know what it's like. You're not alone. I don't love you any less because of what you have been thinking. I don't love you any less because of what you have done. I don't love you any less because of this situation that either you took yourself into or the situation that was thrust upon you. I still love you so completely, and I'm right here with you. You can say anything to me, you can pray anything to me, and I will never think that it's bad or dumb or or wrong. I'm going to be here to listen to you. Not in the sense that we can just say to everyone, oh, oh, Jesus takes you where you are, and all of that different kind of stuff, but to say because his love conquers over our sinful thoughts, because his love conquers over our sinful actions and and all of the terrible ideas that we have, he says, You are not alone and you never will be. And because of what he did living his perfect life in our place and then dying on the cross, we know that that relationship that we have with him isn't just for the 80 years that we have here on this earth. That that close knit, intimate relationship that Jesus says we will never be alone lasts for all of eternity. And he says it as a human being who loves me, who knows what it is to love as a human being. And he says it to me. That that humanity, again, is something that is so powerful that that is able to overcome all of the sadness and and loneliness that we experience as human beings. Um, and again, like the like we were talking about before, the the times when it is worst in our lives is when we can see that union that he makes with us all the more clearly, that we really are not alone.

A Direct Word For Suffering

SPEAKER_02 30:18

As we close and put it all together, what would your direct message be to somebody who is going through a difficult time, whether it be loss of a job or cancer diagnosis or something like a concise message with all these things that we've been talking about?

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Well, I guess I I would say the idea of our God being in control of all things, knowing all of those things that are going to happen. He he knows the specific issue of the problems that you are facing. Not again, not just the ones that you show to the world, but he knows all of the very specific, deep down issues that you are struggling with. And because he loves you so much, he said, I'm going to have my son, whom I love, go down onto the earth, suffer all sorts of literal hell, and I'm going to have him do it so that he can unite himself with you. And the great compassion that he is going to feel, not only as a divine being, but as a true human being, with all of the uh emotional attachments that come with it, I'm going to have him feel those for you specifically in this particular issue. And I want you to know that not only is he going to feel for you, but he used everything in his divine power to make sure that all of this is going to work out for your good. It's not going to he's not promising that it's going to be easy. He's not promising that even the pain necessarily is going to go away. But what he is promising is that because of all of the things that he has done for you, he's going to make sure that you enjoy heaven, like you talked about right away at the beginning, that all of that that is coming is yours even now. And so for the variety of times through your life when you're feeling that dark shadow, for the variety of times in your life when you're feeling all of the things that cause you to be lonely and out of control and having no idea what is coming. Know that the one who does know, the one who is in control, is walking along right side of you, holding out his nail-pierced hand and saying, Come with me. I know the way. And I'm going to lead you, and I'm going to make sure it works out for you because I love you that much.

Questions And How To Subscribe

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Well, thank you very much, Pastor Hugh, for joining us today and for talking about this. And if any of our listeners have any questions on this topic, you can reach us at lifechallenges.us. And we thank you so much for listening to this episode. These episodes are made possible because you listen. So thank you very much. And uh we look forward to having you back next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Thank you for joining us for the Life Challenges Podcast of Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it, and sharing it with friends. We're here to help. So if you have questions on today's topic or other life issues, you can submit them as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes at lifechallenges.us, or email us to podcast at ChristianLiferesources.com. You can find past episodes and other valuable information at lifechallenges.us, so please check it out. For more about appeared organization, please visit Christianliferesources.com. A guide gives you wisdom, love, strength, and peace in Christ for every life channel.