Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Danielle Cobo: Welcome back to another episode of the Unstoppable Grit podcast with Danielle Cobo, where we dive deep into the strategies of building a career and life you love. I'm your host, Danielle Cobo. And today we're tackling a subject that let's face it, has touched each of us in some way, burnout in the workplace.
Have you ever found yourself staring at the computer screen and feeling like you're running on empty? Or maybe you've noticed your passion for work dimming, overshadowed by exhaustion and stress. If that sounds familiar, you're not alone.
In fact, according to a Deloitte study, 77 percent of respondents have experienced burnout at their current job. 83 percent say that burnout had negatively impacted their personal relationships. And that's why I'm thrilled to have with us today, an incredible guest, Cait Donovan, who has the renowned fried the burnout podcast.
In this episode, we're going into unravel the complexities of workplace burnout. We'll explore how to spot the signs and understand its root causes. And most importantly, learn practical strategies to prevent and overcome burnout. Whether you're feeling the heat of burnout right now, or want to arm yourself for the future, this conversation is for you.
So grab your coffee, take a deep breath, and let's dive into this enlightening discussion with Cait Donovan. Get ready to turn your burnout into your breakthrough.
Danielle Cobo: Cait, I'm excited to have you on the Unstoppable Grit podcast. You are the first returning guest and the most downloaded episode of all. Over 150 episodes, yours was the most downloaded episode. So it's one of the reasons why I'm having you back on the podcast
Cait Donovan: today. I'm so glad to be back, and it's so nice to hear that, and it's kind of one of those bittersweet moments, like this mixture of emotions where so proud and I'm so happy that I can serve people, and also, I'm so sorry that so many people feel like this.
I know that they do, I'm in this world all the time, but still, every time I get that, I'm like, ugh.
Danielle Cobo: It means the demand is there. We you. We need you in our lives. I'm here. I'm here. So you recently went back to school while also running a very thriving business, one of the top podcasts on burnout.
So here you are a podcast host, you're a keynote speaker, you're an author, and you decided to go back to school. What inspired you to go back to school?
Cait Donovan: You know, my initial college experience was really So I did two years of undergrad, and then I went for a four year master's program, finished with a master's degree after six years of schooling, but didn't get a bachelor's along the way.
When I moved back to New Jersey after being in Europe for 12 years, I tried to apply for my acupuncture license in New Jersey. New Jersey is the only state in the country that I could not get an acupuncture license without having a bachelor's degree. Which was wild. Right? And I don't know that I want to even practice, but I spent 100, 000 in a lot of years with that education, so I want to be able to use it in case, just if I want to, I want to be able to do it and do it legally.
So that was the initial sort of, maybe I'll just go back to school, I'll do a couple years of school, I'll kick out, because the first two years at BU counted, and I was on a pre med path at the time. Those two years were gonna count. So I'll just do two years of school. I'll get another degree. I'll be able to apply for a license if I want one in Jersey, and I've really been spending so much time in this world of burnout.
This gives me the opportunity to choose a subject and to choose classes that can help enhance. and expand my knowledge. And so that was a huge selling point for me that I got to sort of do a few different things in one.
Danielle Cobo: I'm seeing more and more people going back to school later on in life. For many reasons, what you had described, where they're saying they want to up level those skills, they want to create a deeper knowledge within their expertise.
And it does open the doors to more opportunities, the more education that we pour into ourselves.
Cait Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. And I got there, and when I started digging into some of the burnout stuff, I learned things within the first few weeks that I was like, oh, this is actually really important. These are things that I really need to know.
And I was able to find an online degree program through Penn State that was, it's called Biobehavioral Health, which is the biopsychosocial view of how chronic stress affects the body. Like, could it be better? Is there any better thing? When I found it, I was like, are you kidding? Like, yes, of course. What I found out while I was doing it was that it was basically the Western version of Chinese medicine.
So it's the holistic view of how everything works together and how everything sort of, you know, combines and so it was easy for me to wrap my head around a lot of it because I had a framework. Already, that was in alignment with what I was learning. It was just a different set of terms than I was used to.
Instead of saying spleen chi, I was talking about dopamine, you know? Now, I think one
Danielle Cobo: of the barriers that we often run into when we're thinking about possibly going back to school. Is how am I going to do this all? How am I going to juggle? I had actually applied to get my MBA several years ago and I got accepted into the program.
I was so excited. I was going to go for organizational leadership. Right when I started my classes, I had four people on my team that were promoted into new roles. So half of my team, I would now have four out of the eight vacancies on my team. And I remember falling to the ground when I heard the last person.
Excitement that they were promoted and at the same time I remember. In my rental place that I was, cause I was living in Alabama at the time. I was traveling 250 nights a year. So I was traveling every Monday through Thursday on a plane. And I remember calling one of my colleagues just in tears and going, how am I going to juggle leading a team across five States with the demanding travel schedule, fill all these vacancies, support the customers during the vacancies that were in sales and also get my MBA.
And I remember that moment where she said, Have you ever given yourself permission? To maybe say it's just not right.
Cait Donovan: That's a huge thing, and when you're adding things to your plate, some things have to become not right now. I don't believe there's any other way to do it. I am not a corporate worker. I work for myself, so I have a little more control over my schedule.
But for the first few years of the podcast, I did everything by myself. All of the editing, all of the show notes, all of the social media posts, all of the scheduling. And when you do all of those things by yourselves, this might be really surprising to people that, don't know how much work actually goes into podcasting.
We're not just like clicking record and then sending stuff into the ether. It was taking me six to eight hours every week, which means one full working day of my week was dedicated to creating the podcast, which brings no money, which is a service, right? So I looked at that and I said, okay, well, if I'm going to start school, I cannot do school.
And that, but I'm not giving up my podcast. So I had to hire out all of those things. That was like step number one. I had to hire it out. I could not afford at the time to hire it out and pay for school. I decided to take that leap of faith anyway, because I knew I wasn't going to be able to. Capacity wise, I just, it wasn't gonna be possible.
And I thought that that was gonna sort of settle me into a routine and make everything okay. I had no idea that jumping back into school, I was going to reignite a bunch of burnout provoking behaviors that I thought I had already managed. And this was the big shocker for me, like I know better than this, but the perfectionism turned on, the wanting to get all A's, like I was 38 or 39 when I went back to school, like, who needs, you're, nobody cares.
It doesn't matter, but I'm so accustomed to being a straight A student that I couldn't understand why I wouldn't do that. And so I, found it, like, I was about maybe five months in to the program and taking too many classes. And I literally, actually, physically was banging my head against my desk because I was so overwhelmed and frustrated.
And then I had to stop and say, okay, well, I had to take podcasting. The podcasting post production off of my plate, what needs to happen now? And what needed to happen was I needed to allow myself for this process to take three years instead of two. I needed to not take as many classes every semester because I actually couldn't do it all.
Danielle Cobo: interesting the, the expectations that we put on ourselves. I need to get straight A's. I need to complete within two years. I need to do it all. But where does that narrative come from? Where do those expectations come from? Out of thin air. There's value in getting good grades. And I do agree that you obviously want to try your absolute best.
But you're right. I, as a hiring manager for seven years, I never asked anybody what their GPA was. To me, I'm like, you got a degree. Were you working while you got a degree? Because I cared more about that than it necessarily was the good grades. I wanted to see that grit and resilience.
Cait Donovan: Yes, exactly.
And it was a, I mean, a lot of the sort of get good grades was still leftover childhood stuff for me. It was very expected that we would get straight A's my whole entire life. End of story. So that was something that I just carried with me and didn't, I just for, I had forgotten about that area of perfectionism in my life because I wasn't in school when I went through burnout recovery.
I wasn't in that situation and I, failed to realize that entering a new situation, I was going to have to reapply all the things that I learned. That they weren't just going to naturally come with me, that old habits were just going to sneak right past me. And so I, as a burnout professional, with multiple years of experience, fell right back into my own trap, banged my head against the desk, and then I thought, Oh, oh, you are actually physically harming yourself right now, so maybe you should figure out a different way.
Like, but it took that happening for me to stop and, like, have a come to Jesus moment with myself.
Danielle Cobo: What were some of the signs that you saw within yourself? You said that perfectionism was starting to come up, that you had these, expectations that were coming up from your What some of the physical and emotional signs that you saw when you had hit burnout?
Cait Donovan: I was getting really irritable. I was getting very overwhelmed very quickly. My frustration levels were through the roof. I found myself being, and this is going to sound terrible, you guys, but I am nothing if not up front. I found myself being really judgmental of other students in the class, because with online courses, you have to participate in forums.
And so everybody sees everybody's work, and if you don't participate, you don't get a grade, it's a big part of your grade and I was reading things and I was like, you don't know how to write a sentence. This doesn't even make sense. You clearly didn't read this article. I read the article.
You know, like, this like, moral superiority and this like, I'm doing it better than everybody completely took over. And I was embarrassed byI, I
couldn't figure out why I needed Do it. You know, I was like digging into it and I was like, why, do I care if this person gets a C and passes all their classes and this is good enough for them? Or maybe this person has a learning disability and this literally is the best that they can create and maybe this person doesn't speak English as a first language and this is amazing what they're actually doing.
Like, this is amazing. Some of the people I knew were not of, like, English as a first language speakers, because when you speak multiple languages, you can see the differences in grammar structure, right? And I do speak multiple languages, so I could see it, like, I knew the mistakes that they were making were simply because of language.
So I had to stop myself and say, You can be good to be good for yourself.
You can be good to simply be good for yourself. You don't have to be better by making other people worse. But that was a protection factor that I've carried with me for a very long time. Those signs
Danielle Cobo: of irritability and judgment. Is it something that you noticed within yourself, but was it, characteristics that other people were seeing you in as well?
Did anyone kind of have that heart to
Cait Donovan: heart with you? My husband at one point was like, if you don't start calming down, like I'm going to make you quit because I can't even stand being in the same room with you. You're making me nuts. Yeah. He was like, this is too much. I know you want to do this. I know it's important.
I know you're learning good things, but if it takes you six years, it doesn't. matter.
What are you doing?
Danielle Cobo: That's another question that I've never asked anybody in an interview and I think it's important for us to understand. I've never asked anyone their GPA and I've never asked anybody How long it took for them to get through school. It took me five years to get my bachelor's degree. I graduated when I was 21.
But I also worked two jobs all through college. I changed major five different times, which I ended up graduating with a bachelors in communication and advertising with a minor in psychology. So giving ourselves grace to an understanding, no, I didn't get a 4. 0 GPA, but I also worked two jobs throughout my entire schooling and graduated debt free.
And I think that that's something that we also get to look at. What are the other factors that are going into? Yeah. When we're, if we do decide to go back to school, what are the other factors that are also contributing where we are thriving? We just may be thriving in multiple areas, not just maybe specifically one area.
Cait Donovan: Well, and this goes back to looking at burnout from a holistic perspective and looking at your life. If I'm able to look at somebody's burnout situation and come up with at least six different categories of factors, at least that contribute to a burnout, why wouldn't I be able to look at my current situation and look holistically at the factors?
that are contributing. I was the same in college. I was bartending and waitressing in multiple places at once to pay for my apartment in San Diego while I was finishing my degree. That was also part of what tripped me up when I went back to school. Now, my husband was lucky enough to not have to work during college and college was free because he grew up in Poland and college is as long as you can get in with your grades and merit, you don't pay.
So it's included in their education. So he didn't pay for college and didn't have a job. And so it was a very different experience, but it was a sense of pride for me that I had that grit, that I was a bartender, that I made it work, that I got through school, that I paid my own way, that I took those loans, that I paid them back, right?
My grit was my pride. But then, I was 20. I had a little more energy, you know, I had, I had a little less attention to things like hangovers and I could power through a lot of things. I was at a different stage in my life and I failed to take that part into consideration. I was like, well, I worked and went to school before I can work and go to school now.
Cait, relax. Pull it back, Cait.
Danielle Cobo: Grit and pride. Mmm. Let's dig into this one a little bit more. What do you elaborate on grit and pride?
Cait Donovan: So this to me, for me specifically, I'll speak in I sentences because this is very particular to, believe, my life and I don't want to speak for other people, but I grew up in a gritty city.
I grew up with not the best circumstances, and there was always this baked in idea that if you could, like, make it out of this little city in Massachusetts, that you, like, won something. I don't know what, but life, the game of life, you know? And so, being able to Start from close to nothing and make it has been a huge driving force in my world, and I know that that's something that we share and so using that grit to be successful makes me feel like gives me a reason to be proud of where I came from, because if I wasn't, then I might not have that grit
it's kind of like meshed up in this ability to overcome, but it's also, if we look at it on a more general level, it's built into our country. We literally love, more than anything, an underdog and people that quote unquote pull themselves up by their bootstraps, which is like actually physically impossible.
That's why we use it as an expression, but , you can't actually do that, but we love those stories in this country. Hard work and individualism are two of our top 10 values. So that grit also gave me pride because it meant that I was living in accordance to the cultural values, the societal values that were embedded in me, like it or not.
Danielle Cobo: It's a part of your identity when it comes to being successful. Yes.
Cait Donovan: And I like to remind people of it because I, I have a hard time. Still, this is still something. I mean, like, listen, I need a therapist right now. , I just left one. I need a new one, but this is something that I still have a hard time letting go of because I'm in a privileged position today.
I feel that people make assumptions about what I had to go through to get here, and I feel like they assume that it was easier than it was. So I feel like I have to harp on this and keep reminding people. Where I came from, because in my mind, makes my success more acceptable. Oh,
Danielle Cobo: I can relate to this on so many different levels.
Because nowadays, people look at this success and they look at, well, you've probably had it easy, and I, a lot of times I go, you have no idea the upbringing that I had. being raised by a single mom, shopping at thrift stores, coming from nothing and building and having to start over and over and over and over again multiple times because of my childhood experiences.
And it almost, in a little part of me, Was a little bit of a driving force. I think to sharing some of those stories in the book because of this perception that people have and me almost wanting to say, no, I'm just like you. It was not easy. Nothing came easy. Yes. and maybe there is a part of some of that identity.
to that grit.
Cait Donovan: Maybe it is definitely an identity thing for me. I started doing my own internal anti racist work probably in about 2015. When things started getting like a little more popular and facing the fact that I had privilege was really, really hard for me because I grew up thinking that privilege was only money.
It's not. I get it. It privileges a lot of things, right? But it was hard for me to accept that because I felt like it took something away from my grit. And so,
like I said, this is still something that's, like, kind of working its way through me. One of the things that I talk about with burnout coaching clients a lot is there's thing as a self made person. There's no such thing. We can't get through this life without each other, and when I have somebody say, on the other side, they'll say, yeah, but I did do everything by myself, and I say, okay, well, let's take a moment, look at your desk.
What's on your desk? Well, my computer. How many people do you think needed to exist in this world for that computer to, first of all, be thought up, to exist, to be developed, to be built, to be shipped, to be sent, to end up on a store shelf, to be bought, to be unpacked, to be set up? how many people and people are always like, yeah, thousands from the very first person that built a computer that was the size of my bedroom,
hundreds and thousands of people needed to exist for you to have this tool in front of you right now. We don't do anything alone. So when I get into that place of like my grit and my pride and my, I have to remind myself that. We are all connected, and the better I do, and the better vibe I bring with me, and the better energy I have, the better it is for everybody.
This is my contribution to the world as being happy and successful.
So what
Danielle Cobo: do you do, what are some of the advice that you recommend for some of the coaching clients that you work with where they're in work and they're in a situation where they're burnt out but maybe they're not in a place to take a sabbatical leave or to take a, you know, I, I'm, grateful that sabbatical leaves do exist but not everybody is able to take that.
So what advice would you share with
Cait Donovan: them? Well, first figure out what is available because a lot of people don't know. You have to go and have a real conversation with someone in HR who can walk you through what's actually available to you. You might be surprised to find out that your company will pay for coaching.
If they do get yourself some, you know, like there might be some things that you're not taking advantage of. If anyone has had an Amex or one of those like crazy chase credit cards, you know how many benefits there are that you're not using, right? There's a million of them. Your job is likely similar.
So first of all, find out what's available to you. And figure out if you're going to use any of it. That's number one. Number two is go to the damn doctor, please. Do a blood panel, do a urine test, do your basic, do a stress test if you have to. Do the basics because if you are getting down on yourself and judging yourself and being mean to yourself and what you find out is you have vitamin D deficiency and anemia, it was never coaching or therapy that was going to get you through it.
You need iron and vitamin D. So let's figure out if there isn't something physical that's standing in your way and making things difficult, right? If you have a little more discretionary income, maybe go the functional medicine route so somebody can test for more specific optimizing factors. But even just a general blood test, if you're low in vitamin B12, you're probably going to feel pretty crappy.
And you're not going to be able to focus, and your muscles are going to hurt, and you're going to have bad recovery times, and your sleep isn't going to feel great. If you're very stressed out, you probably have low magnesium. Let's take some. Let's do that first. Before we go down a whole host of self judgments about how if we could just change the way we interact, or change how we show up, or change ourselves in some way, it would be better.
That's number two. Number three is, Before you get drastic, go simple. The self-care that we talk about in my business is called foundational self-care And foundational self-care means drink when you're thirsty, eat when you're hungry, rest when you're tired, move when you're antsy, and pee when you have to pee, right?
Go to the bathroom when you have to go to the bathroom. When I say this, people are often like, well, that won't do anything. That doesn't change anything. And at the same time, they're like, I never pee when I have to pee, I write eight more emails before I go to the bathroom. When I tell you that this is critical, because what it does, it is allows you to reestablish a conversation with your body.
If your body gives you a clear signal, and then you respond to it, your body starts to think, ah, she's got me. There is nothing safer you as a human than feeling. Like somebody's got your back. When your body feels like you've got its back, it will respond better to you in all situations. So start paying attention to the little things.
When your eyes start hurting, close them for 60 seconds without looking at a screen. Don't take a break from your computer to your phone. Stop and close your eyes. Right. So step number three is being brave enough to meet your basic physical and physiological needs.
Danielle Cobo: Sounds so simple, yet so important that most of us don't do. Most of us
Cait Donovan: are not doing it.
Danielle Cobo: We just ignore it. We just keep pushing forward. I'll just keep pushing forward. And I don't know if anybody's got that Apple watch where it reminds you stand or drink water and you just kind of dismiss it. What would it look like if we, how would we feel if we started to actually pay attention to those little reminders that our body is telling us?
And I like how you say, We get to have our bodies back and our bodies get to have our back.
Cait Donovan: Exactly.
So I would start with those three things and let them build on each other for a little while. I promise you it's surprising what a difference it makes. One of the most exhausting things for the body is to sit in front of a computer all day.
Danielle Cobo: Yes, I've noticed that because I used to spend most of my career driving, you know, I had five states that I would travel around to and now I'm spending most of my career, or most of my time in front of a computer screen doing podcasting and individualized coaching, or speaking through the virtual speaking engagements, and I've noticed that I've had to Stand up more frequently, get water, walk around.
I have now these cushions on my leg. I'm starting to get more sciatica. So it's, a big shift when you're spending the majority of your time in front of your computer. We get to be very intentional about dedicating time throughout our day to ensure that we're getting water, that we're standing up, that we're getting a break.
How many of us sit in front of the computer all day and don't go outside to experience the fresh air and then boost of vitamin D that we get from the sun. I just spent four days at Podfest in a conference and I sporadically throughout the conference, I had to step outside just to get some fresh air and it felt like I had a whole new, it was a why drink an energy drink energy drink when you just go outside for 15 minutes.
Cait Donovan: Right. It's simple. These are simple things. But if you look at the, I won't get into all the research. We don't have time for that. But if you look into the research behind all these things, they actually make a huge difference. If you listened to your Apple watch every time it told you to stand up, your life would improve.
Time to put on
Danielle Cobo: the, I've heard two things. I feel like I'm my coaching client right here. I'm going to put my Apple watch back on and I forgot it and take my B12 shot this week. So go get it. Got to go take that B12 shot. Well, and also want to add to you talked about resources that employee human resources can provide.
There is a program called Employee Assistance Program, which a lot of organizations will provide, which can be anywhere between 3, 6, even 12 therapy sessions set up with a counselor that are free. And so that I've noticed more and more companies are starting to invest in the Employee Assistance Program.
They're starting to have wellness programs. I know that the organization that I worked for. We used to earn points towards walking and towards different physical activities, and then we would earn points and we would get to buy things with those points, so more and more companies are starting to have these wellness programs because they see the value and the importance that if we're going to be productive at work, we first got to take care of ourselves.
Yeah. And so I, glad that you mentioned, reach out to HR and have those conversations. There's probably a lot more resources that are underutilized now more than ever because there's more resources available and, you're right, a lot of companies will pay for coaching. They'll pay for coaching for career development.
They'll pay for coaching for burnout. and so
Cait Donovan: ask, yeah, simple, have the conversation and if you're not sure how. Go to ChatGPT and say, I'm feeling like a crazy person, I'm ready to yell at everybody all the time, but I have to have a conversation with my head of HR about what's available for me.
How can I talk to them in a way that they will be receptive to? And then let ChatGPT tell you what to say. You don't even have to think it up yourself. Then you can write, Could you write this again, but in a more formal EMAT presentation? And then it'll write you another one that's an email that you can just copy and paste and send.
Right? You don't even have to, if your brain is burnt out and you can't get that far, rely on a tool to help you.
Danielle Cobo: There's so many entrepreneurs that I know that are utilizing chat GPT. However, what I've found in the corporate world and a lot of the clients that I work with, they're going, what is this chat GPT?
And I'm spending a lot of my time coaching them on how to use chat GPT to be more efficient and productive in their time. And it is mind blowing experience for them. It's mind blowing. Because I'm showing them how to be efficient at writing emails, writing proposals, coming up with creative, I work with a lot of sales representatives that are in medical aesthetics and so we're coming up with creative promotional plans and so we'll use ChatGPT and they're just blown away at how this resource can help them.
But I love how you even bring it to a whole nother level of saying, ask ChatGPT how to have a conversation.
Cait Donovan: can't do it. My emotions are all over the place. I'm afraid I'm going to sound like a crazy person. How do I say this in a way that they will be receptive to and I will get what I need? ChachiPT will give you a script, and then you change it so that it doesn't sound like a robot, obviously, but at least gives you something to work off so that you don't have to sit there and avoid having the conversation because you're not sure what to say.
Now you've talked
Danielle Cobo: about, there are organizations that will invest in employee development, and they'll pay for coaching, and you happen to have a coaching program specifically for individuals that are burnt out. Tell our listeners a little bit about
Cait Donovan: your program. Unfried is a four month program that is run by my very closest friend from acupuncture school and burnout coach, Sarah Vosen.
It's a four month program that we designed together and then she took to a whole nother level. It's been running for almost three years now, so it's been through the wringer a few times and been perfected. It takes you through how to analyze your resources, how to take stuff off your plate, which stuff you can take off your plate, how to move through emotions that might be stuck, how to reconnect with your values and priorities, and how to plan a sustainable future for yourself that's burnout free.
I heard people in the past talk about their products as life changing, and I thought, that's like really bold. You know, like, how do you, the feedback that we've gotten and the things that I see happening to people during and after the course, this is life changing, and I'm so, so proud of it, and so our next two cohorts go live February 27th and 28th, and we just, we can't wait, so if you're, like, I am done.
I've taken this as far as I can by myself. I don't know what else to do. We are what else you do. You also have a book as well. Share your book. I do. The book is called The Bounce Back Ability Factor, which was a terrible title because no one can remember it or say it. Everybody always messes it up. I should have not been clever, and I should have just gone with Fried the Burnout Book, but The Bounce Back Ability Factor was specifically written for female entrepreneurs, although lots of people have read it outside that group.
It's a little bit about my own story of burnout and then there's a series of exercises that you can lean on if you are a DIY kind of person and you can do some digging, you have the energy to do some digging on your own. Why is it coming
Danielle Cobo: up with the title is the hardest part of writing a book. I, this, coming up with the title of my book kept me up at night for weeks.
It's not surprising. It consumed my mind. And I remember asking so many people their opinion. Okay, here's 20 more titles. Here's 10 more titles. Here's five more titles. And narrowing it down, it was so hard.
Cait Donovan: It is. I won't be so clever next time. I'll pick an easier title. People are always like, the bounce back, the bounceability, the bounce, the bounce, the back.
I'm like, okay.
Danielle Cobo: Well, you also have a podcast. So before we wrap up, because you shared so many insights, so share your podcast as well.
Cait Donovan: Pride, the burnout podcast is now going on to, we're zoning in on about 235, I think, episodes. We've passed 600, 000 downloads. I have talked to some incredible people, and the idea of the podcast is to create a space where you feel seen, heard, and validated so you can drop the blame, shame, guilt, and judgment that you may be associating with burnout, probably are associating with burnout because most people do, so that you can actually take a step forward in healing in those steps.
I've had people that have gone through their entire burnout recovery just listening to the podcast, which is, like, mind blowing and amazing.
Danielle Cobo: I'm an avid listener so I can speak from experience that I thoroughly enjoy your podcast and it's had definitely helped me and I would encourage everyone to Cait was on this She was on the unstoppable grip podcast before like I said, she's the first returning Guest and she provided a great episode and what I learned from that was about being a martyr and a people pleaser and it really shifted my perspective on people pleasing. So I encourage our listeners to go back, listen to that episode and definitely subscribe to fried the burnout podcast.
Well, thank you so much for joining our today's
Cait Donovan: episode. I am honored to be your first repeat guest. Thanks for having me. For our listeners
Danielle Cobo: out there it is your time to break the burnout cycle. This is your time to take control. And first by asking and ask going over to your corporate office and asking what are resources are available to support you.
Ask your manager, ask your family, your friends. It is time to put yourself in the driver's seat of your life and to break the burnout cycle and to take care of yourself so that you can then take care of everybody else. But it starts. with taking care of you. Until next week, be unstoppable.