Psychic Babes

MUFON Director Mike Panicello discusses Alien Disclosure

July 07, 2019 Kirsten Sandefur Season 1 Episode 8
Psychic Babes
MUFON Director Mike Panicello discusses Alien Disclosure
Psychic Babes
MUFON Director Mike Panicello discusses Alien Disclosure
Jul 07, 2019 Season 1 Episode 8
Kirsten Sandefur

Mufon Connecticut Director Mike Panicello discusses what's going on with disclosure, are aliens real, talks about proof and shows you where to find the answers! This was my favorite episode, MUFON is a serious investigative agency who has been investigating extra terrestrials since the 50's and Mike and I discuss the legendary cases you have heard of and some you have not! Don't miss this episode!

Support the show (

Show Notes Transcript

Mufon Connecticut Director Mike Panicello discusses what's going on with disclosure, are aliens real, talks about proof and shows you where to find the answers! This was my favorite episode, MUFON is a serious investigative agency who has been investigating extra terrestrials since the 50's and Mike and I discuss the legendary cases you have heard of and some you have not! Don't miss this episode!

Support the show (

spk_0:   0:17
Hi, guys. Welcome to another episode of psychic babes. I'm your host, Pearson. Sandberg. I'm really, really excited tonight to have this guest on today. I think you guys were really gonna love this episode. You're in for a real treat for my regular listeners. Hey, guys will know I'm a have a bit of an interest in the teams are they're intelligent beings. So I have asked Michael Patel it'll move on Connecticut State director to join us. What? Michael,

spk_1:   0:44
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks with you know, yes. And you're members.

spk_0:   0:52
Thank you. Yeah. And for those of you who don't know what move Fawn is the UFO network. It's a US based nonprofit organization. You nuts really composed of stability and volunteers who study, you know, alleged UFO sightings. And it's one of the oldest and largest organizations of its kind. Really ending. What? You guys have more than 4000 members world right now. All right about that? Yes. Yeah. And and, uh, representatives and more than 43 countries in the fifties, you know, in all the 50 states, So it's really interesting. And they've got a got a lot of new things going on and what is really excited to have him on. So I will, uh I will turn it over to Michael. He can tell us a little bit about himself and how he got interested and move on and maybe what he did before then. And, uh, and how is interested in aliens? Let him hear.

spk_1:   1:46
Okay, well, so I gotta have are more fun, because I was looking to expand my knowledge of UFOs and extraterrestrials and that whole, you know, the whole filthy you Apology. Really? I've always liked it. My interest kind of started. What? The X Files is probably the case with so many people when I was younger. And what the storylines of the X Files Not only that when I was a kid, you know, the learning China was still very popular before it became, like, a reality channel that it is now. And they had, um, documentaries on about area 51. And, you know, always, always, they talked about aliens and how the technology from the alien crafts eventually wound up in some of our our military applications on. But I just found that fascinating when I was younger. Yeah, and as I got older, I just lost interest because I had no time for it. I was going to college that was going to grad school, and then I was getting involved with work and realities of adulthood, and I just kind of put the hobbyist side the interest aside. And until I finally got established in my field, I finished school. I got my job and I realized, Well, gee, I got all this free time. Let me go back to you. Apology. Let me go back to this this field because it was always in the back of my head and it's something I enjoyed talking about. It's just never had time to focus on it. No, I did. So I remember I wanted the episodes I was watching on The Learning Channel about the mutual UFO network move on and how they are well expected in the field there, they've been around for a very long time, and I wanna win. My looked up on their website. If there was anything in Connecticut and sure enough, there was a chapter. So I reached out to the state Director of the Time and I asked him if I could attend one of their meetings and and they said, Sure, you come, you can absolutely attend. And I met some of the members and I just fit in. I just I found my niche, my niche, Um And so I read and I became a field investigator because they investigate the sightings. And I figured if something's gonna happen in Connecticut, I want to know about it, and the best way to do that would be as a field investigator. So I became a field investigator, and then I just worked my way up, became state director, and I've been doing it ever since.

spk_0:   4:33
So how long have you been working for them? Now?

spk_1:   4:36
I've been the state director since 2013 and I joined. Move on. Um, probably the spring of 2011. It's a long time. It's been It feels like a lifetime. I'm going so fast. It doesn't feel like it spent that long a period of time, but you has been spent since at least 2011 so

spk_0:   5:04
well, I bet we'll get into this later, but I bet you have some really interesting stories to tell us. But do you feel like the trend now is leading more thio, you know, leading to more alien abductions or less?

spk_1:   5:18
Um, that's a good monster. I think the trend now is sightings. Air going up exciting seems to be more common. Um, people are more aware of it now. Yeah, uh, as for alien abductions, e think that's always been a tough one to gauge because a lot of people are being abducted, but they're not reporting it yet. They're either afraid to report it. They don't want to talk about it or

spk_0:   5:50
don't really know exactly what happened. So there

spk_1:   5:54
don't understand it. So what happens is you get two kinds of abductions and this, I think, makes it a little bit hard to figure out the trend you have the ones that probably going on that are never reporting it. So now you're not getting any of those statistics in the system or you're getting people that are reporting stuff years down the road, takes him a while to to come to terms with what happened to him. So when they do come to terms with them, it happens a little bit in the future. But because people reported all different times you're putting them back. So, you know, for example, But let me give you an example. If someone got abducted in 2009 and they're reporting it now, in 2019 we can put that statistic back in 2009. But we don't know if other people were were abducted in 2009 because they haven't reporting its source. Our numbers are always off because, okay, that makes sense. I don't know if I explained it. Well,

spk_0:   6:56
no, it does. So basically, the sooner or somebody reports that it's easier for you to kind of make sense what happened and checked with.

spk_1:   7:05
Yeah, I well, anytime someone talks to me and whether it's an abduction or whether it is an actual UFO sighting, they say, Should I report it? I'm not sure what I say absolutely reported, because as soon as you reported that information goes into our database, it becomes another data point. You know, as a scientist would say, they want more data. The more data points you have, the better you can. You can see the patterns and the trends. So one person reporting, Yes, it's one person, But that's one person among many reporting. And all of a sudden those data points start adding up and then you can see patterns. And so that is where

spk_0:   7:47
they're very good point that you make a lame. And I think, um, our listeners should definitely hear that. You know, guys, if you ought see, happen to see what you think is that UFO, even if you don't necessarily know reported anyways. And just, you know, get that out there. And that way you can they can investigate it and figure out more about you know, what was really going on. But I think people, I think people tend to try. You know, they they feel silly, like, Well, maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I didn't really see what I thought I saw, you know, and attend to second guess himself. So then they just do lean towards not reporting,

spk_1:   8:23
and that happens. But, you know, you're reporting to people that believe are ready. We're not gonna ridicule you. That's not the remove. Fun works. We take what we do very seriously. Even though we're volunteers, we're not gonna mock you. That's just not in our creed. But if we're gonna like probe reporting something, and I'm thinking it's a UFO. I'm thinking it's not. We'll tell you what we think, and we will give you an honest assessment. We're not going to, you know, lie to you and say yes. That's a UFO. When was really an aircraft? If we can prove that it was an aircraft will tell you that. But we're gonna respect to you, in your opinion of what you saw and what you feel, and we're gonna be more open toe believing you. So if you're worried about Oh, well, he's just gonna laugh at me. Well, no, because we believe too. I mean, we wouldn't be in this field if we weren't looking for that. So you're reporting you're citing toe like minded people.

spk_0:   9:21
Yeah, I know

spk_1:   9:21
you feel comfortable.

spk_0:   9:23
I read Cheri Wild, but too. And she just talked about how compassionate you guys were, you know, with her story. And I've heard that from other people as well who spoken with you guys that these guys are very, very compassionate understanding, and they don't You know, they don't above and beyond to make you feel normal. And, you know, because this isn't something that is people's faults and they forget that it's, you know, and I've heard that everybody from the funnest very, very kind in the way that they do their work and they do it. They're volunteers. So you have to think they there's something about this that they enjoy and they truly want to help people. So So, yeah, What? What do you what does move on? Stance per se? Because I, you know I'm on their side quite a bit, but it seems like yes, you know, we believe 100% that ends, it says, but they don't really go into Yes, and here's the proof. So So I'm just wondering, kind of what, what is their stance on and why haven't they come forward to challenge the government? I guess, and say, Look, you guys are not, You know, I'm not disclosing the stuff. What's going on?

spk_1:   10:37
Move on's national policy regarding that? It's a great question. You probably wanna talk to some of national on that. My understanding is they're trying to make more of us stands by going and showing the cases of interest. If you go on our website now for you can see the top 10 cases. We have a science review board that well, look at all the cases and the most credible cases they'll post online if you are a member and you join, you get ah, Month E newsletter, whole journal, which is

spk_0:   11:16
going to read the detailed version of the top 10 which is really interesting. So I encourage you guys to do that because I signed up for it

spk_1:   11:25
and they have articles by people. They do their best for disclosure as they can move on. Symposium is coming up at the end of this month. They're gonna have speakers there to talk about disclosure. I mean, a few years ago, they they had one on the secret space program. They have one on, um, usos. There they do the best they can within what confines of their abilities. And I think they do a fair and honest job. I mean, you can go online, you confined haters on both sides for anything. And unfortunately, that's the case with new apology. Uh, but I think move on A on a whole tries to be as transparent as they can dish to show that and, you know, maybe in the past, they weren't always so. But this new leadership that's involved now there, there, there, very much dedicated to trying to get that out there. Which is why there's, you know, they're trying more. They tried Hangar One, for example, and you know, we had Hangar one on the History Channel Mar. R. Sighting reports went out out the window. I mean, we had more people reporting than you can imagine. And that just helped tremendously. Getting the data into to show that members can look at the CMS system, the public version of the cases. They can't see anything confidential, ran with information or witness addresses. But they can read about witnesses, sightings. UFO stalker runs the database to it. You can go on and see what kind of sightings air out there. So they give a lot of information. Um, I think, and that makes from or the other. You're for work. So

spk_0:   13:14
we're getting to that. They don't want to get to the politics of it. They just want to get the information out there to the right, and

spk_1:   13:20
yeah, I think that's a great rate of saying yes, and even you look at some of the other website center out there. They don't give out a lot of information. So I think both fun does a pretty good job.

spk_0:   13:31
We'll know. And most of the government programs, you know, they've been talking about how you know how they fully intend to continue studying this, but will not disclose any of the information to the public. Uh, you know, that doesn't help us either. So, you know. Yeah, I know. I think my phone does a great job. And there's a reason why they've been around this long. So right, We're well respected in their field, so I mean, they pretty much invented it. So, um,

spk_1:   13:58
don't get the chapters. I mean, each chapter does a great job on their own that Brian gets speakers in and stuff. So it's not just national. It's also a very grassroots effort. Each state has a chapter in there all doing disclosure on their own level by presenting what they know is evidence in their state.

spk_0:   14:19
What school? I hadn't thought about it that way, but yeah, you're right. You're right. That's interesting. And so anybody can just show up and go to like the monthly meeting, like I'm in Texas right now, I could I could go to one of the meetings of stuff. Today's

spk_1:   14:35
anyone can show up to our meetings. Um, each chapter runs them differently. I can't speak to how Texas will run their meetings. I do know that they're very inviting and they do allow the public to Goto. And But I can. I can speak more for Connecticut's and sets my chapter. Anyone can go to our meetings. We have a lot of members that are paid members of move funds, meaning they actually have a membership to the organization. Some come to experience it, see if they like it, see if they like the people and then they join, uh, from for May. I think the goal is really to get the information out there. You know what? If you can afford it a joint rate, it helps the organization. If you can and you can join later on. That's fine, too. But more importantly, you're meeting people of like minded like mindedness and for some of these people, you know they've experienced things and they just want to talk to someone.

spk_0:   15:42
You know. We

spk_1:   15:42
feel very isolated. They've had a sighting experience or abduction, and they're holding it inside. And I can't tell you how many times people have come to our meetings and they meet some of our other members and just held their whole story. And the weight of the world is off of them because they're like, Finally, I've met people that think like me. Finally, I don't feel like the odd duck out because, you know, I told my husband I told my wife or whoever he just left my regard. Really, When you come to our meetings, they're like I found my I found my people and it just is like, amazing experience. And I think you could say that's probably the case that most of the chapter meetings around any move on organization

spk_0:   16:30
chapter. So what do you think? The government is dead set against getting this info out there? Why are they trying? Thio, you know, inhibit disclosure like we're trying trying to prohibit disclosure from come yet

spk_1:   16:43
that's a good question. So one of our former members was in the military. We had a speaker today who was in the military, and they both basically said around the same answer, and it is that that they have, You know, some of a lot of the technology that we see in the skies, our is our stuff, you know, it's it's projects in the parks budget world of of the defense contractors or the military that they're working on and they're developing, and we see them testing it, and they don't want to disclose it. Um,

spk_0:   17:22
is this really that they reverse engineered from aliens?

spk_1:   17:26
Possibly what they also said it is if we have something that we don't really understand, how it works completely

spk_0:   17:36

spk_1:   17:37
We don't want our enemies to find out how to use that technology and use it against us because they take their oath to defend the people in the country and the Constitution very seriously. And if they know they can't defend against this technology, they don't want it to be released that someone could hurt us, hurt our country.

spk_0:   17:58
I like I can totally drive with that answer. The answer that I get a lot of times from people is Oh, the Cabal was dead, said. They don't want it out there, and you know this kind of this that the other. And that's just not okay to meet, You know, that's like, what? Because they want to control us with it right now. But what you're saying actually makes a lot more sense. It's not some sinister thing. It's the, you know, they're kind of trying to protect us, actually. So I like that.

spk_1:   18:23
Yeah, I think that's you can get into the conspiracy sides if you want to call it that or the truth side. If you believe in that with the Kabul, I mean, you can go down that path

spk_0:   18:34
rabbit hole feeling, Thio,

spk_1:   18:36
you Absolutely. That's a better way to say you're right. You go down that rabbit hole if you want, and I have and I d'oh, I like sports. I like that buying a of thought and then there's some truth to it. But I think the answer your question at least after today with our speaker who was in the Navy. Um, you know, he's like, Well, if these things are coming in and out of our battle groups in and out of our airspace and we can't stop him, you know, we don't we can't defend against that. So we're going to keep quiet until we can figure out how that counter it. And I think it says a lot for our men and women in uniform that they will keep that secret because they feel that protects us.

spk_0:   19:17
Definitely. Yeah. No, I definitely like that. Answer. Well, where do you stand? Have you had any personal experiences that have led you to believe? Have you seen any UFO's? Are, you know, had alien contact there?

spk_1:   19:30
I have. Well, I thought I had two sightings in my life, and I I debunked them both as aircraft. I actually found the actual aircraft through looking at radar at the time that that's what I saw. So I haven't actually seen a UFO. However, after doing this for since 2011 I've heard I've done investigations of abductions. I've done over 200 sightings in investigations in Connecticut and around the world as part of CAG International Case Assistance Group. Mm. And there are a lot of there's a lot of commonality. There's a lot of there's a lot of evidence, in my opinion that we are not alone. And that's not even going into like the videos you see on YouTube that air deemed credible and that I'm doing air quotes on that, Or the whistle blowers that come out or any of the research by some of the more prominent UFO researchers out there. And they're they're evidence. That's not even if you don't even include any of that. Just doing being a field investigator. I cannot see how we're not alone or not being visited.

spk_0:   20:46
Yeah, I mean, the Draper place and was the big thing for me, that was, like, Okay, that really puts into perspective, showing you like a scientific formula for, you know, how many plants rather than the Galaxies, how many could have habitable life, you know, and then on and on to show you the percentage. And it was something like 59% you know, positive that there is intelligent life beyond us. I was like, all right, that that works, you know, and, uh and then, yeah, I've since had two experiences that I believed to be very real, but I'm still trying to debunk them myself because I'm you know, it's It's the whole thing. It's like, Okay, this can't be right. This this can't be a very rational person. I was trying to think everything through to the end debris. So then I will. What's the most exciting case that you worked on for the organization, Would you say,

spk_1:   21:43
um well, it's 211 knows is it was a triangle. It was a triangle craft in the next town over from where I lived because I I live in Connecticut, and this was in the next town over, and it was Ah, it was a retired Marine, Um, who's already just finished his service in World

spk_0:   22:06
War. I read about this. Yeah,

spk_1:   22:08
And, um, he was It was in downtown in the downtown area, and he sort out of the corner of his eye trying. Well, that just went right over his head. And I mean, you can't get a more credible witness you your interest in theatre because he just finished his tour in Afghanistan. You just got discharged from military. He knew the planes that we had, and then we're looking at the radar. Um, not just the commercial radar sites where, you know, you go on track. Planes were looking at they all the information and get more detail. Radar. There was just nothing in the sky that night. All on Connecticut has very busy skies. You know, we have planes coming up the East Coast. We have planes coming over the East Coast, down the East Coast, up and down the east Coast, Meaning like they're going. You know, they're going over to your going over to Europe basically, or they're going over Connecticut up over the pole into Asia. Uh, we have planes going to Boston. We have coming in and out in New York. It's very crowded sky on the night of this triangle, there was just like nothing, and a few planes that were there were on the far corners of the state on the Connecticut Rhode Island side and the Rhode Island Connect. Sorry, the Connecticut New York side. And

spk_0:   23:38
did he say whether it did and you know, a logical pattern? Because I knows that with the ones I saw it, the way that it moved was just not the way something

spk_1:   23:47
that was just slow and study, and it didn't make a sound. And it was the typical triangle, citing out the white dot light on each corner. It had the red light on the center, um, right under under the craft, and there was no It was low enough to the ground where he could see there was no rivets. Like, you see,

spk_0:   24:14
one of our with those are we, uh, you know, engineered. Right, The rivets. Oh, okay. Interesting.

spk_1:   24:22
So if you look at a commercial plane like a delta or American, any other cover any plane, you'll see little reverts. There was not. It was completely smooth. There was no windows for a cockpit where the pilots would be.

spk_0:   24:36

spk_1:   24:37
And the question is, is where? Who can move planes? Who can clear hook, who has the ability to clear an entire sky? Well, be the FAA and, you know, military or who? So that that that was a really interesting case because any elective, it was just You have this incredible witnesses just staring at this thing, going over its head, and then you look at the radar data and where, on a normal day in time of this evening, uh, it would be filled with planes going over to Europe. There was just nothing. There was just this wine like it was. It was reminded me that the best way I could describe it is they wanted to clear the air space so no one could see this thing coming.

spk_0:   25:20

spk_1:   25:20
then it was I got 11 something at 9 11 30 at night. So it was It was a slate, as you can get. Well, hopefully like no one will be around. And it was it was a great sighting. It was It was really good. And that always stuck, stuck in my head and it still sticks in my head.

spk_0:   25:38
Well, I'll have to send you the footage I have of what I saw. I only high. And I I said that found out about couple weeks after the sighting that I lived his when I was living in Lehi, Utah. I lived about one and 1/2 miles away from the N s A, uh, that top seeker in this a base out there that's like, dedicated to you. I don't know if that has anything to do with that, but there's nothing out there either, Like I looked for. Sad out is like that. I don't have access to the detailed radar that you guys do. But, you know, even

spk_1:   26:11
when I don't, either we have to do for freedom of information requests. You know, that's another thing. People think that we'll find out his access to F A and we don't. We have to do a freedom of information requests and go through the channels and all the proper procedures, uh, or not dial in. So sometimes that disappoints people. If we can't get the radar data or, you know, I always tell people, especially people are interested in becoming field investigators, you're not gonna be Scully and Mulder out there running. It's, you know, it's a TV show. The reality is a lot different. You using the public domain to figure out what you're seeing and you there some other websites. And, you know, some people are retired police. Some people are retired federal agents. I mean, move on runs the gamut of people that are investigators and members, and they do bring a variety of resource is to the table, and we can utilize that with photo analysis and video analysis and radar analysis. There's a guy that specializes in that, but it's still the old grunt work of We have to go out and try and get the evidence ourselves. It's not given to us, or it's not like we can call upon the on our computers and have access to all the data Mother would love to. But I don't think the government's gonna

spk_0:   27:35
allow allow that. Yeah. What? What state has the highest amount of activity and have there been any UFO flaps? And And you were in the last 20 years,

spk_1:   27:45
Uh, California and Florida and Pennsylvania, usually in the top three.

spk_0:   27:51
Is that just cause it's your size? You know, just your

spk_1:   27:54
size. Um,

spk_0:   27:56
because you think Texas would be up there, too. But

spk_1:   27:59
this is not You have a lot of open spaces in between towns. Florida, California. They're very congested. You mean like you know, L A. For example, there's a lot of air traffic. You know, The one thing that tough is that some sightings are man made, their iron rose. You gotta remember also that UFO's stands for unidentified flying object,

spk_0:   28:26

spk_1:   28:26
Hollywood has related UFO's with aliens,

spk_0:   28:30

spk_1:   28:31
But it really just means it's a craft that we don't know what it is until we figure out what it is now, it might be UFO's that might be aliens, but it might be a classified military craft in California is a lot of testing facilities. They have a lot of commercial aircraft, Sam

spk_0:   28:47
to area 52 that most people don't know about

spk_1:   28:49
were area 51

spk_0:   28:52
52 Dugway Proving Ground.

spk_1:   28:54
Yeah, you're right. Area 52. Well, yeah, there is that?

spk_0:   28:58
Yeah. There's a lot of people I've I've spoken with a lot of people out out there because when I lived out in Utah, we took a trip out there and it says you'll be shot if you come anywhere near it. And the locals were all telling us. Yeah, that weird stuff happens all the time. They're they CFO's all the time. And there's all sorts of very strange occurrences there. Well, we're testing, you know, um, crafts there, things like that.

spk_1:   29:23
Well, popular mechanics, I think it was popular mechanics. Well, in popular science, one of them had an article a few years ago about the Utah base area 15 to um But they might actually be the new area 51 because area 51 become so commercialized with tours going to it and television shows and people watching it that they needed someplace more private, so they actually move those that stuff there, There. Now, every

spk_0:   29:52
movie one is

spk_1:   29:53
still very active. So the question is is maybe they have to Maybe they have one. You know, there's a good point on that. That that is a unique location.

spk_0:   30:03
I mean, wait, We were almost arrested when we went out there and we were away far away, and we went up on this hill tow. Watch over. And then, of course, you know, military police comes up there. What are you doing here? We're like, we're just, you know, just camping out. Just like it out here. You know, it was just weird cycle. Why? What what's the problem? Like? We can't see anything up here or just Yeah. And so it was just It was very strange. And we interviewed a lot of the a lot of locals who had a lot of interesting things to say, and they were all similar. You know, not everybody, that there's no why everybody got together to get the same story, you know? So I don't know. I just I I agree with you on that. So who would you say is the most believable story in the most credible when it comes Thio all the public UFO cases. I'm in a part of the sherry Wild Travis Walton. And then, of course, Betty and Barney Hill. I

spk_1:   30:58
actually like Travis Walton.

spk_0:   31:02
Yeah. Hey, see? Looks extra generous guy to, like, just

spk_1:   31:06
Yeah, I met him twice at a conference, and he's very down the earth guy that he doesn't. He's very I took him as kind of a shy guy. Oh, yeah, This is story. Tower is

spk_0:   31:21
not lying. Just Yeah, it's like, yeah, some sugar pop in, huh?

spk_1:   31:28
And he, uh, he's been very good bye. And everyone you can imagine if they were to find holes in the story by now, you would think they would have found it. And they haven't. So I think he's a very credible with this. Um,

spk_0:   31:43
Does he speak often, Um, at symposiums and stuff Still, Or

spk_1:   31:47
he does make the circuit. Yes. I mean, the UFO circuit he is around. I guess that I saw him twice. Um, and he just there's a new movie out with Travis Wall, and I think you probably get that on the Internet.

spk_0:   32:04
It's the fire in the sky and was just flawless. Heart is heart wrenching, you know? Imagine being you know, being that situation nobody believed in. And yeah, it's just Yeah, that would be terrible. But, um, you'll have to check it out.

spk_1:   32:21
So I think I think he is. Probably What I would say is, it's

spk_0:   32:28
incredible. I want to share a wild, too, because she she lost a lot. You know, her family, her kids, even by telling her story. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And that's just kind of like And she Yeah, I I found out about Sherry while from dealers cannons stuff. So I mean, I really relate to her story. Quite bet, but so what do you think about Dr Greer and about his claim on, uh, you know, the government staging the false flag alien invasion? You think that's possible?

spk_1:   33:03
I suppose it's possible. I mean, I don't know if he's I don't like to speak negative about anyone.

spk_0:   33:12
Sure, go ahead. I mean, so

spk_1:   33:15
I I guess it's possible, if that's what he believes. That more power to him. If he hasn't evidence in the in the documentation to support that, then great. If he if he's just saying that because he believes it, Well, I don't know, but I do respect them. I think his disclosure movement is is fantastic. Yeah, I think it's done a lot to bringing this to the forefront. And, um,

spk_0:   33:43
well, what a lot of people forget to is that two days before 9 11 he had that major press conference about disclosure and have all of these people that he was calling out.

spk_1:   33:53
Right? And you, too, if you if anyone of your listeners want to go and see that,

spk_0:   33:58
exactly, I'll post a link guys in the description at the end. But it's interesting to watch because this was a big deal, and then 9 11 just mysteriously happened two days later. I mean, you know, I'm not one for conspiracies, but, you know, take that one of the

spk_1:   34:13
nine eleven's another rabbit hole. You, if you

spk_0:   34:16
try and

spk_1:   34:16
go down

spk_0:   34:20
was was pretty convincing, you know? So

spk_1:   34:24
I mean, I respect him for what he's trying to dio to bring this closure toe happen, and I've seen his videos. They're very well done. He has a lot of good points in his videos. Um, yeah, on a knowledge, I think so. I respect I I anyone that tries to move the field forward with evidence in a positive way. I think deserves credit. It's the people that try and bring it back with negativity that I don't really respect. And yeah,

spk_0:   35:01
we'll gain like that's, you know, to make money office. And I do right by Oh, yeah,

spk_1:   35:06
I do respect him for that. And I think it's great that he, uh, he's trying to move the field. Ford. So

spk_0:   35:13
no, great. Do you meditate on? Do you try to connect with higher intelligence is or is that not your not your bag It all

spk_1:   35:22
I'm trying to get. Well, I trying to meditate one of my members now is, is very much into remote viewing. And, um, he he's into manifesting and he's trying to get me into that. So I've been starting small. We're trying to learn to put my mindset in the manifesting mode where you get your whole you're you change your your outlook. I mean your whole you change. You try to change your energy. No. So I'm hoping that by doing that by becoming Maur, realizing I'm part of a bigger picture that will, in turn, that would have been a little better. Yeah, I'm not there yet. I'll be honest with you. It's Ah, change for me because I I've always been more of this science, not symbols like Let's go look at the evidence. You know, tthe e energy in the you know, it's almost like a pie in the sky stuff. I don't really I never was there yet. Now I am, But I'm like, at the baby steps I'm learning. I'm like a I'm like, if you use it the child. I'm a toddler who is now crawling who hopefully will be able to walk and will eventually be able to run so

spk_0:   36:39
well, if I could make a suggestion, check out who change. T. It's a method developed by a dealer's cannon, and it is amazing. Those meditations are so powerful that the it'll change your life. I mean, you'll have visions of things that you're just like what? You can't even explain them. And that's what really got me into meditating a lot like I mean, I do it every day now because, um just had such a profound effect on my life, like on my mood and everything else, so Okay,

spk_1:   37:10
Okay. You know, definitely. Thank you for

spk_0:   37:12
that. Yeah. No, no worries. So what do you I don't know if you've heard about this, but what are your thoughts on the rural society and Maria or such? Have you heard about that? And how she channeled ancient aliens who helped them supposedly build a spaceship so they could ultimately leave Earth before the war ended in Germany. And then they were never seen or heard from again. Is a really faked or what? In the Adolf Hitler, she had ties, Date of Hitler and and on and on and on.

spk_1:   37:40
Well, yeah, that's a really good question. Um, I said I read, I've been reading Michael Solace is books on the secret space program. And, um, you know, he has a really a lot of good evidence talking about that. It makes sense. And the reason I think it makes sense is twofold. One, um, a lot of what he talks about in his books is verified in another book by, um, Project Sir Po.

spk_0:   38:11
Yeah, it

spk_1:   38:12
was two different sources.

spk_0:   38:15
And the love one. If you've read that bra, which is, you know, that's not evidentiary thing is a channel book, but still Yeah, they all they all coincide

spk_1:   38:25
But the other thing is is you know, after after 40 after the war ended it, we had Operation Paperclip, and we're bringing all these normal scientists and a lot of them you can find talk about aliens being inviolable creative. I think you're involved, Brown. I don't remember the quote off the top of my head, but the paraphrase it he was asked, you know who helped you build all this as well? We had help. They weren't from Earth Base is kind

spk_0:   38:53
of basically what he said. Yeah,

spk_1:   38:55
so if he knew about it and the real society was there, yes. And and, you know, they say that the Ville Society funded him well, so, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I think they are

spk_0:   39:10
a little too far for me like that. They're, you know, they're still in a feller still alive, living in inner Earth or Waas or whatever. That was a little too far for me, but the rest of this sounds pretty legitimate. Well,

spk_1:   39:22
if you believe William Thompkins, you know, he wrote and and solace the second book. He said that when he was in the defense contracting world he met, he said that there was Nordics working there and one of them looked just like the leader of the real society. So,

spk_0:   39:39
uh, when I, um

spk_1:   39:42
maybe they were helping both sides?

spk_0:   39:44
That's interesting.

spk_1:   39:45
It's interesting indeed. As for like you said, Hitler, still alive was living in Earth. Antarctica. Those are all the column parts of you apology. You can call him the conspiracy wound. Maybe I You can take that any way you want. And people have very strong opinions on both sides of that

spk_0:   40:06
coin. You know, I think it's it's important. I just want to mention this to the listeners to, you know, gather your own information. This this podcast is meant Thio, you know, shine some light on what's what's going on, what's out there. But don't take everything we say as gospel, going more for yourself and make your own opinion, you know?

spk_1:   40:25
And you know, the other thing I would add to that is, is there's a lot of junk on the Internet. You know, you there's unsourced documents, There's fakes. There's yeah, you like academic rigor and academic standards to try and find some good stuff if you're looking not to plug us again. But if you go to our website. Move on ct dot com. I created a link that says research, and it has a whole bunch of questions to ask when you're looking at books. For example, how do I know what book is the right book for me? Those books there, Their suggestions on books, um, so go there. Use that as a starting guide. And then if a book has a bibliography or footnotes, usually they'll cite their sources, then use that to find your next set of books and then so on and so forth. A good researcher will tell you their sources. A bad researcher will just use anonymous and unnamed sources, and that is that doesn't stand an academic regular. And it shouldn't stand in your apology.

spk_0:   41:35
No, it doesn't. Yeah, and it's not helpful to actually further anything you know, right to keep this going. So actually a some point hopefully become, come to a determination on what's happening. Now I have a question. So do you think that, in your opinion on maybe he could also tell me the funds You think that generally, um, alien civilizations are benevolent or malevolent like

spk_1:   42:03
Well, I'll tell you my opinion, I think, um I think alien civilizations run the gamut with with Earth. I think there are some that are completely indifferent to us. We're like ants. To them,

spk_0:   42:17
you're you're

spk_1:   42:17
so advanced that they don't need to give us the time of day. I think there's others that and wanna use us for their own purposes. You think there's others that are seeing that were being exploited and may be trying to help us stop it and then you can and where I live and where it gets a little tricky is who are the ones that are helping us with some, say the Nordic. Some say Nordics are bad. Some say the Nordics are good. Some state of reptilian zehr bad. Some state of reptilian zehr. Good. It's it's a gray area. I mean, everyone says something different, so one thing kind of bothers me about you. Apology. This is never really consensus sometimes,

spk_0:   43:00
but there's never really just a short you know, sweet answered. Anything is there

spk_1:   43:04
is not no. So I think the how aliens treat us and view us, I think runs the complete spectrum to the ones that, like I said, don't care about us. We're just If we stay in our own little solar system, we don't mess around with the rest of the galaxy. Yeah, they're like, we'll leave us, we'll leave you alone. And there's others that are like, Well, we got our own agenda. We're gonna use you for our on so

spk_0:   43:31
well. So I also believe that many, many extra SOS came down to Earth at one point because when we started developing nuclear technology, they went, Oh, you know, like they're opening under here so they try to come down to come try toe, save us or elevators or, you know, help us interrupt.

spk_1:   43:51
Just make sure we didn't destroy ourselves or the, you

spk_0:   43:54
know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So Hee.

spk_1:   43:58
I think that's a valid point. I mean, that would explain why there's so many UFO sightings around military installations. What? So they're keeping an eye, our nuclear weapons in our nuclear ability. So I think that gets back to what? How did you

spk_0:   44:15
was? It gives a good feeling, kind of, that somebody's looking out for us in LA regard, But, you know, um, how do you think, Like, what kind of individual do how Can they do their part for the organization from a phone and for disclosure as a whole? Just that, besides reporting, you know, just making sure to report if they see something. And what else can they dio?

spk_1:   44:39
I think the biggest thing is education in you right now. People don't really understand that. What you apology is theirs. They're the people that think that Well, a lot of the average people, the average Joe, I think things were the ones running around with tinfoil hats on our heads.

spk_0:   44:58
Yeah, And then they laugh. They laugh at you when you're trying to legitimately study some serious information that, you know, I take very seriously And that's always kind of this disheartening because it's like, Well, wait, how are we supposed to find out more if we just laugh about it, You know, So I like I like that he said that education.

spk_1:   45:19
So get educated. Learn about you Apology. Learn about the different fields. There were many ways there's many avenues you can go down and we talked about some of them. Today you can look at alien abductions. You can look at, um, Antarctica. You can look at secret space program. You just do regular, citing investigations. All kinds of gametes but

spk_0:   45:42
phone have a university now kind of. Ah, are they finished?

spk_1:   45:46
Have a move on university. You can take classes through there. We're coming. You can. You can learn our field Investigators go through that training through move on University, where they learn how to become field investigators.

spk_0:   46:00
And they also learned the history of some things and whatnot, Right,

spk_1:   46:04
right, so they get a field investigator. Manual will be a history in there as well. But you can. Also, if you want to know more about move on as an organization and its history, you don't need to sign up for that right away. You can go to their website and goto about us. I mean, there's plenty of information on move on zone website to talk about them. You can go to our website move on c t dot com. You can learn about us and link over. There's a lot of, uh, resource is out there for people to learn about us, and then, if you, for

spk_0:   46:39
myself, I want T. C I. A. The Freedom of Information Act. All the stuff that's been you know, disclosed that had to be disclosed. So I found some interesting stuff there. So, you know. Yeah, you just gotta kind of do here, you know, do your research kind of all over the place, and you can go down rabbit holes. But I think trying to stay just on task just to try to get the basic understanding of it before you make a decision, I think is the best way. And yeah, I think Michael agrees on that. Um, can you tell me what trades? Air stair typical for somebody who's had contact or been abducted? Not just seen, you know, a craft, but because actually had a compact or been abducted and on a ship. Um, there are

spk_1:   47:21
two types. Some people that are abducted or seen her scared there. Confused. Frightened. If they've been abducted in the aliens have done something to them there. Trauma? They have trauma like traumatic event s o. The charmer. That would have happened with a traumatic event. Maybe it's PTSD. Maybe it's not. D'oh, You need a professional diagnosis. That is what I'm trying to say. And then you have the other spectrum where they had a very enlightened experience. They had positive contact with the aliens. They have. I kind of found their place in the universe. They've learned more about the universe they have a greater understanding of you are role in the universe. So you run the gamut. There is Thea buying experience where it was, It was the best thing that ever happened to them. Yeah, completely at peace with in effect, if they were not very peaceful person, mentally or physically or emotional before, After the abduction, they are because in a way, they kind of found the answers that they were always looking for. And then you have the other extreme, that is, they're completely terrified. They're scared. They're traumatized.

spk_0:   48:50
What about suffering from radiation poisoning or loss of time? And things like that is that you find that that's typical to with

spk_1:   48:57
that hadn't happened. You know, I worked the case in Connecticut. It happened in the eighties, and it was with a state trooper in a and they just a regular gentleman

spk_0:   49:11
and you're

spk_1:   49:11
looking at a UFO in a pond. And they only thought 10 minutes went by that they were looking at this craft, and it turned out two hours have gone by and no one knew where they were. There they were. Were you for two hours? We have no idea. So they didn't think they were gone for two hours. So there is. There is sometimes a loss of time with this radiation e. I haven't worked any cases. What? Radiation. But it's in our field investigator training toe. Look for radiation when I have gone to Western Say haven't worked. I haven't had anyone test positive for radiation. What? I have gone to do investigations of abductees at their house or the location of the abduction. We do have a radiation detector, so we do check for that Because, like you said, there are radiation radiation element to an abduction. Possibly. And it is in our training, but I have not had anyone test positive for that. But yes, we do. Look, for

spk_0:   50:17
I was reading a short story about I can't remember it like a man older man, older, older gentleman who had seen, um, you know, a UFO that came close enough to him to be able to identify some things. And he'd shortly died several days later and that this this had happened a couple of other times with a couple of other people. So Well,

spk_1:   50:40
when was that? Because, you know, in the 19 fifties,

spk_0:   50:45
yeah, it was The things was like the eighties. Well,

spk_1:   50:49
the military was trying to use and

spk_0:   50:55
scare tactics.

spk_1:   50:56
No, they were trying to use, um, nuclear power engines for aircraft on. You can go on and global out there. They attempted it. Stan Freeman talked a little bit about you. Never quite got it to work. Supposedly. And I put that in quotes. I mean, I don't know what happened.

spk_0:   51:15

spk_1:   51:17
and some people have sore, like craft in the sky. Developed radiation poisoning. Maybe it's because of that. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying that it's one example of how it will last. We know what they're doing in the military and the black budget world of these secret projects. You don't really know. It's one question mark you can always check off.

spk_0:   51:41
There were definitely will end. I know. Move on, investigates the Mothman. And I've recently heard of his appearance in a couple of other states, you know, and part of it's a tragedy happening. Um, have you heard about that. And can you speak more about it all?

spk_1:   51:58
I'm not really involved with the movement and moth man investigation, so I don't have much to add on that. Unfortunately, I know about Mothman and who he is. And about the famous sightings of the Mothman.

spk_0:   52:11
Horribly, too much with

spk_1:   52:12
Mo finding and the Mothman.

spk_0:   52:14
Okay, But that method and Courtney, if I'm wrong, does also deal with humanoid encounters too. Not just

spk_1:   52:20
They do look a crypto zoology a little bit. We do have a guy who is one of our state directors who would oversee it. So if there is a crypto zoology case that came along, the chances are it would go to this individual.

spk_0:   52:37
Okay. Okay. Um, is there any spot in the US that has the highest amount of science anywhere in the world like that? People could visit, I guess if they wanted to see something, is there one spot that's kind of just known for it?

spk_1:   52:53
Um, off the top of my head. I can't think of one. I know what I'll probably think of it after the podcast. I'm trying a little bit of a blank at the moment, so I can't I would. I can't. Really?

spk_0:   53:10
So for my experience, anything Put anyone to remote on any put in any people that have talked to that about have that and I believe had actual real sightings. Um, it's always somewhere about where nothing else is really around, you know? And I don't know if that's because they don't wanna be seen by a new notes or you know what it is, but, um, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Um, what are your thoughts on the cease? Any program? Others. He said he protocol for contact. I'm developed by Dr Greer.

spk_1:   53:46
Well, we were thinking about trying that within our own organization. So I like it. I think it's a good idea. Is using

spk_0:   53:55
work really well? Yeah.

spk_1:   53:58
So I know two individuals in the state that do it personally that do it on their own,

spk_0:   54:06

spk_1:   54:06
they have had positive results. Oh, we don't run Skye once It's in our state, and we are gonna try that for one of our sky watchers in the future. So I think it's a good idea. I think it's a great technique to add to your tool kit of sightings from to try and increase your sighting ability to see a craft or an entity. And like I said before, anything that could move the field forward is the new bring, in my opinion.

spk_0:   54:36
Exactly. And I've found that it you know that until I've only done it 34 times. I want the 34 times one of the times when I did and couple, three other people were there that saw something, too. So it was unmistakable. So, um yeah, but up What? Uh what What do you think crop circles are really? And to believe that they're made by ions air that they're hoaxed?

spk_1:   55:07
Well, I saw it. I think

spk_0:   55:10
are both. You're

spk_1:   55:11
both. I think some of them are host. There was a TV show on the Discovery Channel that showed I don't know if you've seen it was like three m i t. Students, and they had to recreate a crop circle with all the characteristics of a crop circle in 20

spk_0:   55:29
four hours in the ones are actually broken. Not just bend. Yeah, yeah,

spk_1:   55:34
they did it. Yeah, they re created it. So it is possible. However, um, I didn't think that there is more to it than that there are some very good crop circles. And I was at a conference in Pennsylvania and we had one of our state section directors who does allow to research into crop circles. And she was talking and she put presented some very good evidence with radiation effects and electromagnetic effects. And but I don't believe can be replicated by hoaxing and the complication the complicated patterns of some of these, uh, crop circles. I don't think you can make in a day and you would need to bring them in a day. Um, the time alone, I think, is the biggest example of why these probably not always man made those simple ones the very basic and generic one big would be man made. You could maybe do them in a night. But there is a very many, many, many crop circles that are complicated with mathematical patterns in them or musical patterns toe. And I don't believe you can do that in a day.

spk_0:   56:51
Well, that that's part of the Sea City program has thes high pitch sounds that were taken from the crop circle. Some of the crop circles in camera. What what place? But, um, you're supposed to use that that signal to draw them into your kind of and, uh, that that it's just very. It's very strange that that was created at a crop circle, that people could hear those tones and because there's no way to really hopes that if you will, you know, uh,

spk_1:   57:21
that might explain why that's the prototype. See, Ceddie protocol is so successful because they're using the signal is given to them by the aliens.

spk_0:   57:30
Exactly. What are your thoughts on CART, Cory? Good. And do you think there's any validity to his claims? I mean, I I like him a lot, but there's something just I feel like he's been taken in by the government and fed this information or something. I just can't figure out what it is.

spk_1:   57:48
Well, I don't like to speak negative about people. Area mentioned that I don't I think, um I think, yeah, he brings up a lot of points that are worth investigating. Michael, I I'm not trying to push Michael Silas this book. It just it seemed I like to quote sources and it seems to go other questions around, and I'd read when I read his first book um hey. Ah. I had a lot of circumstantial evidence to support Cory. Good. And what he was saying he was able the document cases. Cory Good spoke out and move on symposium. When we did it back on the secret space program, his presentation was very good. Some of his stuff is a little a little out in left field. But as technology is becoming Maur Advance and our science fiction is catching up with our science, they're not really that far out there anymore. Um,

spk_0:   58:53
you know,

spk_1:   58:53
I guess it's possible, Uh, you know, I don't know. I think I think he is great for asking questions and having people look, because what's happening is by trying to look in the Cory Good people are learning more about the secret space program and talk about this.

spk_0:   59:14
The technology. I agree with that 100%. Yeah. I think putting that on dia TV was it was an awesome thing to do because a lot of people that wouldn't have normally, um, you know, wanted to hear what he had to say. All of a sudden, we're watching it. Intrigued? Uh, yeah, and if anything else, if he is wrong. You know, uh, it was a great It's been a great story, because I I was hooked, you know? I mean, I watched for the whole, like, three or four first season. So, uh, having Sorry. Go ahead.

spk_1:   59:46
I think, you know, like anything he has to be vetted. And as you a file. If, as UFO researchers in vet him, they'll find out what's going on. I have nothing against the guy. And I Yeah, good for him for telling this story.

spk_0:   1:0:03
Yeah, because that's also we have to think that there's not He's not a celebrity. Like there's a lot of people that are after him for doing stuff like that, You know, he's a very hated individual, which is sad because, you know, if you're truly telling your story trying to get it out to help people, and then people are just making fun of you, that's gotta be an awful feeling. Yeah.

spk_1:   1:0:24
Yeah, I think I would be pretty tough.

spk_0:   1:0:27
Have you read Nick Redferns Book on the arch? Negative. The bloodline of the gods.

spk_1:   1:0:32
I'm reading it right now. Yeah, I am. I'm I'm about 20 pages into it. I think it's a good books so far, and it's a good question to ask and to look into.

spk_0:   1:0:44
Yeah, it really tripped me out because, uh, I I'm already negative, And I was just that and I happened to pick that up, and then I forgot about it for a while. Then when I went to Park City last weekend, I brought it with me, and then I was just so okay, This is very strange stuff.

spk_1:   1:1:00
I can't speak. I'm only 20 pages in, but ask me in a few weeks so that, you know,

spk_0:   1:1:05
okay, and then kind of lastly, um, we got, like, another minute here. But what about Stan Romanek story? Uh, because he obtained some not mathematical knowledge that he could have never known. I mean, stuff that, you know, quantum physicists were like in awe. Like, How did you get this? There's no he had formulas, you know, and I I know that some of it was hoped he came out instead. Later on, Yes, I did, you know, fake some of the stuff, but but he's still, you know, mandates that the rest of it was true. So, um, and I guess he didn't move on. Um have people of us to get him,

spk_1:   1:1:45
I believe. Move fun investigator. I'm not entirely sure on that, but, um, I'm always hard on people that come out and say that come out hoaxing because credibility is huge in numerology. It's You know what? You're dealing with witnesses that have no photographic evidence, no video evidence. They just are telling you what they saw. Um, you have to vet them and see if they're credible. And if you start catching people in lies, No. How do you believe him? You know, the credibility is hurt. Maybe what he said is true. And that's what you said is true with the mathematics. And it might be it's good that he owned up to it. But, um, this fact that matter is he lied. And if he got lying, he he said he hopes that I think a taints everything. Um, unfortunately, you. And even though it might be true, it is something that you because witness credibility is so important, you have to have credibility it. Once you lose that you you can't get it back. It's It's no different than if you're in a relationship with someone. If you you lie to your partner. How do you trust your partner again, You know, How do you know that? They're telling

spk_0:   1:3:05
you a

spk_1:   1:3:06
second time? A every time. No, he just so, um, one sets loss. It's hard to get back. So that's my view on that.

spk_0:   1:3:20
Well, listen, I I won't keep you too much longer. I think you so, so much for coming on. This has been a really interesting conversation, and I'd love to catch up with you again. Maybe in six months and kind of, you know, see what new developments have come out and, uh,

spk_1:   1:3:34
not attack me in six months. We'll do it again. No problem. I look forward

spk_0:   1:3:38
to it. All right. Thanks so much again. I have a great day.

spk_1:   1:3:41
Thanks. You too. Take care. Okay.