GFF Podcast

T+1 Expert Masterclass

• Clearstream • Season 5 • Episode 5

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Join our expert T+1 guests, Kathie Waldie and Roy Zimmerhansl, for a feature-length exploration of the T+1 transition. We review the current progress across EU, UK, and Swiss workstreams, discuss implications for settlement discipline and operational changes, and consider the impact on securities lending, repo, and collateral management beyond the 2027 deadline. Join Andrew Keith Walker and Christian Rossler for this lively chat about T+1 and the market impact for global funding and financing.

SPEAKER_00:

And welcome back to the GFF Podcast for November 2025. Yes, we are back, and this week I am extra excited. I know I say that every week, but I really am because it's one of my very favorite topics. It's T plus one, which means we've got lashings of settlement discipline, we've got technology automation, you name it, if you're an ex uh tech startup uh nerd like myself, T plus one is the best of all topics. And uh I'm gonna say I've got some fantastic guests lined up, but of course, first I need to introduce someone who is always slashing settlement times in half and traveling uh more effectively as he uh settles uh various bar bills between here, the IMF, uh Canada and South America. It is, of course, Mr. Christian Rossler. Christian, welcome back.

SPEAKER_02:

Hi, Andrew. Good to be back.

SPEAKER_00:

It's good to have you back. And we have uh a great show uh lined up this week, don't we? T plus one with two very special guests, Kathy Waldy, uh who's the head of Target Service Governance at ClearStream, and Roy Zimmerhansel, who you will know as the head of global market at WTS Hansuka. But also, you will know Roy from many other things as well. But first, Kathy, I'm going to dive in and do the obligatory uh stellar CV, and yours is particularly stellar. I thought Khaliv Anevjonsa set the highest standard, but I see we've got some proper Olympic level CV work coming in today. So, Kathy, you will know Kathy, of course, if you've done anything in uh securities markets over the last 20 or so. Now, of course, you'll know Kathy if you've done anything in the world of securities finance in the last 20 years. She's the head of target service governance at ClearStream. Kathy's also the co-lead with Emma Johnson on the EU T Plus One Settlement Work Stream. And in T2S, she is the co-lead on the T Plus One Task Force with Paolo Carabelli from Euronext. Uh, prior to that, of course, Kathy spent 16 years at JP Morgan in network management. And before that, Deutsche Bank. Now, for the last eight years, she has been blazing a trail. A clear stream. Kathy, welcome to the show. And Kathy, you're at JP Morgan. Roy was at Chase Manhattan. Did you ever overlap at all?

SPEAKER_04:

I've got to say here, it was 16 years at Morgan Stanley. Let's get our Morgans, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. I'm sorry, now I I'm gonna hit the sad trombone now, like I did for Carlin, because I deserve it this time. Hang on. CV fail. I do apologize.

SPEAKER_04:

But I did do uh 16 years at Morgan Stanley, and before that, so my very first job was at JP Morgan.

SPEAKER_01:

Kathy's too young to have uh crossed over pathways with me when I was at Chase Manhattan, just to be clear.

SPEAKER_00:

And you may well recognize that's the voice of Roy Zimmerhansel, who's the head of capital markets at WTS Hansuki. Roy's also the AST Workstream lead here in the UK with Tony Holland from ISLA, and also in the EU. He's co-lead uh on the Securities and Repo Workstream uh with uh Thomas Hansen, uh Tony Holland from ISLA, and Alex Westfell from ICMA, and of course, uh all of that focused on T plus one. Uh he uh worked in sustainable finance and the global PSSL uh project uh for sustainable securities lending. Prior to that, his own consulting firm, of course, Pierpoint, and global head of securities uh lending for HSBC. He was a director at Deutsche Bank and at Namura. Uh he was a VP at Chase Manhattan. He worked at the CIBC, Royal Bank of Canada, and started out at the Canadian uh securities uh depository. Actually, that sort of leads us on to a Tom Cruise style moment. Yes, Roy is one of those people who has actually been handed uh a hundred million in bearer bonds uh in a satchel that he had to walk across town. And yet, surprisingly, he didn't move to Brazil. Roy, tell us more about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh yeah, that was actually my first day on the job in the industry. Yeah, but we picked up uh we picked up a hundred million of bearer bonds. Uh two of us had to go because our insurance policy only covered up to 50 million per person. So, yes, and uh I uh that's exactly the question I asked. Uh, what happens if we just take it away? And he said, Well, actually they belong to you. And I went, Great, let's go. He said, Yeah, but I think they'll try to chase us down. So we decided not to.

SPEAKER_00:

Great movie potential, though. Okay, so welcome to Kathy and Roy. I'm gonna dive straight into T plus one. It's a great topic. We've got lots to uh and I'm gonna ask both of you just to give us an idea about T plus one. It's gonna cut the post-trade timeline by nearly 80%, as we've seen in the US, not 50%, which you'd think T plus two, T plus one, it's half as much, but it's not. What does that compression mean in big picture terms for market participants and for CSDs? And Kathy is you're there at the CSD. Uh let's start there.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, it could be provocative and say it doesn't actually mean much at all because we can already do T plus one and T plus zero settlement from a point of view of our infrastructure already today. Uh of course, it would be a really boring podcast and it would be a really boring project if that was actually the case. Um so to avoid turning it into a non-event, I will say that compression of the time frames is undoubtedly, you know, one of the one of the biggest challenges that we face together. And then as CSDs and as infrastructure, um, we have to make sure that we have all of our infrastructure lined up to accommodate um right through from trading, clearing, all the lending activity, SFT activity, right through to settlement and to the post-settlement, um, asset servicing, FX, well, FX actually comes beforehand. Um, we have to have that all lined up and and ready to go then for T plus one. So as part of that, of course, we have got to make adaptations then to the infrastructure, but we cannot do that in isolation. Um, and one of the things that we have spent a huge amount of time, particularly in the first half of this year, was basically as a European industry, um aligning and workshopping on what does that mean in terms of our time frames, that compression of um having trading running up to 10 pm and potentially beyond that, and then actually to be starting um settlement potentially only two hours later. Um so agreeing on that new operational timetable to maximize the time for the participants to do their to do their stuff before the instruction gets to the CSD. Um but equally making sure that we as CSDs are enabling the the participants to achieve the highest level of settlement efficiency that that they can.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, you've got to collect the fines if there are settlement fails, right? So there is um you don't want to be doing that, of course. You you as the CSD you want to make sure that everyone gets there and has their systems in place.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I mean, let's face it, uh, you know, we as CSDs don't earn anything from the fines. Um, it's not at all in our interests. Quite the opposite. You know, we want to be there facilitating stuff for our clients and and their counterparties as much as possible to reduce the penalties. Um and, you know, that goes hand in hand with the efforts around settlement efficiency. And I think it's really important that we have said um, you know, what would be a sign of a successful implementation to T plus one? Now, that would be if as a minimum we can maintain the current level of settlement efficiency that we have under T plus two. Um, if we can maintain that under T plus one, ideally we want to be getting better. Um, and we want to be doing that with an efficient use of liquidity and um without uh a huge burden of operational effort, let's say, to achieve that. So that's our kind of golden, if you like, the kind of golden triangle for T plus one is that balance of settlement efficiency, liquidity management, and operational effort involved.

SPEAKER_00:

And Roy, uh, I'm gonna come to you. So of course, you've got uh a wealth of experience uh helping market participants and management companies, tech suppliers, uh people uh on the other side of the market fence uh to adapt to changing regulations and changing tech overheads. What about for the market participants? It it's quite a big change, isn't it? Much bigger than it will be for the CSD.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, as Kathy said, um, you know, CSDs typically can operate on a on a same-day basis, let alone T plus one. So it's less a question of uh functional capability in in that space. It's much more about the users and the market participants and what they can and can't do and what they need to change. I think the key thing is that when we move from T3 to T2, all you needed to do is look at what you were doing, find friction points, smooth those out, and do everything a little bit faster, a little bit smarter. And everything was fine. Moving that T2 to T1, as you said, is an 80% reduction. So just doing everything a little bit faster doesn't really wash. So I think in many cases, for many parts of the chain, it's actually a rethink of what you do and how you do it, and causes people to have to reassess, sort of take a step back, say, how are we doing the processes and reimagine? You know, the the the way that the that the operational infrastructure grows over time is you tend to have changes come in, new regulations, new trading styles, new trading hours, new capabilities at um at CSDs. Um and what happens is you adapt for that change. And so over time, what happens is you end up having this accumulation of uh changes that are kind of one-offs, and where you've encountered problems with that, you have a bunch of workarounds. You can't deal with that in T2 to T1. I I think this has been a great opportunity and a great challenge for people to actually take a step back and rethink how they do it. If we were starting all over again, how would we do it today? And I think that's the that's the the challenge that the best firms and most ready firms are really grasping. And I think that'll be the biggest challenge for those firms that that aren't there.

SPEAKER_04:

Roy has has picked up there on on multiple what really resonates is the need that this is not something where the industry can tinker around the edges, um, which I think is also the great opportunity um of T plus one. It's something that, although it's uh, let's say uh coming from a regulatory, let's say, uh impetus, it's a great opportunity for collective action as an industry. And that's what I have uh seen then this year uh particularly as we've really been sitting together, we've been workshopping problems, we've been putting things on the table, uh challenging assumptions, but I think with that recognition of the fact that um it's really uh an opportunity and a necessity to take things back to first principles. So um Roy mentioned about anticipating problems. Now, look, we've been talking for years about how do we um edge up on settlement efficiency in uh uh in T2S or in Europe uh as a whole, we know that there are some pain points. The discussions on T plus one have been a great opportunity to tackle some of those things. Some of the things that I recall talking about in 2014 and the fact that you know there would be a need for focus on SSIs as we get into more cross-border activity. Uh, and those are some of the things that today in 2025, um, SSIs is one of the most frequent, or SSI difficulties are one of the most frequent causes of fails in the European capital markets. Now, T plus one is shining a light on those and also giving us an opportunity to collectively, as an industry, tackle it. It's not going to be easy. We know that. There's a lot of hard coding in place, there's a lot of uh, you know, different use cases that we will need to tackle. But I think the the collective will is there in the industry. Um, and I'm personally I'm pretty optimistic that we will, uh, even if we don't have a magic wand, that we can make some pretty significant inroads into uh into those challenges. And uh doing that in a way that uh means it's not about exception handling. Exception handling um as we know it today will not be viable in many cases in a T plus one environment. Instead, it's about making sure that uh trades are booked correctly um first time around, and that there's a really good use of things such as forecasting tools to predict where am I going to require liquidity, where's my inventory, is it in the right place at the right time? And that is also something that, you know, from a clear stream perspective, we're looking at our product suite, you know, to to develop tools that tools providing the intelligence uh to our clients and the market participants, and also um products to help them deal with some of those challenges.

SPEAKER_00:

We're seeing an awful lot of working groups. Uh, is there genuine coordination between CSDs, CCPs, custodians, uh and market participants? Or is there a risk that everyone will be optimizing in silos and not actually getting ready for this sort of harmonized uh world that we we need to reach over the next sort of five to seven years to enable the savings and investments union, to enable the actions that come out of ESMA's call for evidence about changing reporting structures? I mean, it seems there's an awful lot of things moving at once. Kathy, you sit on committees. Roy, you are traveling around the world giving a lot of uh uh talks uh and advice to people about these sorts of issues. How harmonious is the T plus one preparation process right now between different kinds of uh participant?

SPEAKER_04:

Um is it always harmonious? No, of course not. If it was harmonious, we would have done it uh, you know, a long time ago and it would be terribly boring. So, no, I can tell you, I mean, there are there are some topics that have been really challenging. Um, and there are some that are still ongoing that are challenging. But what I do see as very positive is that will to succeed. Um, and what has helped or is helping there is when you have uh, let's say, a set of principles or you have strong guidance about uh, you know, keep our eyes on the prize. And um I do think there is a tendency with something like T plus one, um, for everybody to kind of tip their pet projects or their pet, you know, uh their pet hates into it and to say, okay, this is a chance to eliminate this or or tackle that. Um what is positive about that is we get a lot of input. Um, and that has certainly been the case. Um sometimes what is then challenging is we need to distill that down to understand, okay, what's really critical for success? We're not going to be able to do everything in the next two years for everybody in the industry. Um, and I say we, that's not as a CSD, that's collectively as an industry. But I think it is really important. I referred earlier, you know, to that kind of uh, let's say, golden triangle of the um settlement efficiency, operational effort, um, and efficient use of liquidity and inventory. Um, and I think when we when we have that in mind, um, it enables us to focus in on some real essentials. Um, that's not going to look the same for each organization, for each institution. And that's part of the work that we all have to do individually within our organizations. But it does mean that we're all pointing in the same direction. And I do see a genuine um spirit of cooperation and a willingness to tackle some of the tough uh topics that have perhaps been uh, let's say, brushed under the carpet in many, you know, for many years. It's also worth noting uh that carries on to the UK and Switzerland as well. Great example of that is um there is uh a task force, another task force, uh but being set up, but this time on testing. Um and it's been agreed that that will um also be aligned with the UK and with Switzerland. So um in fact, I think on Switzerland we've not got it formally, but we've got it informally. So let me say uh there's the intention that the task force on testing uh of Europe is very closely aligned, if not meeting together, with their uh counterparts for the UK AST and for the Swiss T plus one initiative, which is a perfect illustration of how these things should work. Um in this in the interests of the market as a whole, so we're doing it efficiently, but we're also doing it um closely aligned in spirit.

SPEAKER_00:

And I mean, Roy, on that front, um what about for the the market participants that you're advising? I mean, we know Esma is expecting settlement efficiency to go up after T plus one kicks in, not to go down. Is that keeping people up at night more than the idea of having to do the midnight shift? Uh is it Christmas in the office again to make sure that delivers? Or uh are you getting the the feeling that people are are ready for big changes after you know the big regulatory shifts that have hit people, like with you know Amir Refit and those sorts of major regime changes over the last couple of years?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, this this definitely isn't a mere refit. You know, I think uh I I think it's a uh it's a challenging, it's a it's this is this is a massively challenging change, right? It it sounds simple going from two to one, um, but it it requires a rethink of literally almost everything you do and how you do it uh and the expectations for that. So so I don't don't underestimate it. But um I I've I've been impressed with the cooperation, uh not just within the individual work streams, but across. So Kathy and I are in different work streams, uh, but uh we have interaction regularly on on many of the issues, many of the outstanding issues. You know, they the reason they're outstanding is because they they kind of cross multiple parts of the uh of the market infrastructure. So one group can't really decide it because it it affects everyone. So I've been impressed, as Kathy said, not always easy. I have to tell you, not always easy. And even within our work stream, you know, I want to push people faster than they want to be pushed, right? Because I want this industry to be future-proofed, right? And I want these new opportunities I talked about to be possible. So I'm always going to be pushing people. Um, but I think it's been it's all been done in the right spirit of trying to make them, trying to make the market better. You know, are people, you know, up at night? I don't think people are up at night because I think we all know that this is doable, right? If the starting when we started with the recommendations that we've made and the clarity of discussion that we've had, this is eminently doable. There's no question that it can be done. It's will we do it? And frankly, uh I know in the UK, and I expect ESMA to do the same, um, FCA, Bank of England, and and HMT have been uh very clear that they want to monitor progress. So part of what we do as Workstream Leads and the Secretariat is uh um, we're providing updates on how the automation process is going. Are more firms automating and setting up relationships infrastructure? Because no one wants to wait to the last minute to say, well, did this all work out or not? Um so I think there's very clarity in the front end, tracking uh along the pathway. So I think this seems to mean to be very um very controlled, very focused, very controlled anxiety, I suppose, in terms of a desire to get it done. So um I'd love to say something controversial because that's what I prefer doing. But, you know, I think it's been it's been pretty good. I don't think everything is going to change that I want to see changed. Um, but you know, that's that's sort of probably been true of every project I've ever been involved with.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean this um T plus one movement that uh started with uh North America in uh 2024 and is now planned for Europe uh and the UK by late uh 2027. Does does it um give us some lessons learned? First, I mean a question to Roy to understand what do we learn from um the US here? And uh second, I mean, uh in terms of um, you know, uh how are we going to um translate those lessons um into the European movement?

SPEAKER_01:

So this is a great question because one of the things that people always say, well, you know, they've done it in Country X, they've done it in the US, they've done it in Canada, Mexico, some Latam countries. So what's the big deal? Well, I think the main lesson that I take away is that uh it's certainly been a success uh in in the main markets without a shadow of a doubt. But when you peel back the layers as to why that's a success, what we've actually seen is uh it was resolved in many cases by going people heavy. So rather than automate ahead of time, what we saw was a huge amount of uh of uh increased staffing uh at uh and many firms, which really helped get over the hump, right? Help deal with it in the run-up, help resolve problems. But in many ways, it's that kind of legacy approach that we've been talking about that won't really be viable in a T plus one environment. So you throw bodies at it. And what we've seen is post-GoLive, we've seen a big tick up in terms of automated practices uh in the US. So it's kind of uh let's just go in and get it done, make it be a success statistically, and then having learned what we need to do, then start automating. So I think the the lesson that uh we take away from that is that the automation has to be done up front. You know, you don't want to be scrambling around uh as you get closer to the live date, say, have I got enough people? Am I am I ready to deal with the problems? It's about what can I do to automate today? So one of the things that all of the market participants uh and working groups have done is kind of said, well, what's the state of where we are today? And I think many of those uh working groups have found that quite a lot of things happen on a T plus one basis already today, or T0 in some cases. And certainly by T2, you know, you see, you see the the statistics that we have at market level now. But I think that gave people confidence to say, well, we're already doing quite a lot of this. Um now, i if we think that we can cope with it today to an extent, what do we need to automate to make it better, to make it smoother, to hit that target Kathy was talking about, where we say we we want settlement efficiency to be at least as good uh in a T plus one environment as it is today in a T plus two, and then maybe we can improve from there. So the lesson the lesson is automate ahead of time, don't wait. Uh and we've seen that with every regulatory project that's been forced on people. What do firms do? You know, some firms will be leading edge and they'll get everything in place and they have a nice smooth pathway, but many firms will be racing in the closing months to that, to that date, um, which often people look at as a target rather than the latest date. You know, you're not shooting for October 11th, 2027. You want to have everything in place long before that so that it's a non-event.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think from from our perspective um uh at ClearStream and from the um collateral lending and liquidity solutions, what we've done following the move in the US, we've stretched our recall timeline in the US uh securities. So by three hours we had um on T plus um one settlement, we stretched the deadline for the recall on day T from 1630 to 1930. Now, Kathy, how how is Europe preparing for uh uh this uh this change? And uh you you have actually talked about uh shifting starting times from settlement batches uh from 8 p.m. to midnight. I mean, what what's your view on that?

SPEAKER_04:

Picking up Christian and what you said about the the recall times, um and and you know, Roy uh obviously knows knows this, you know, from the work in the uh securities financing uh work stream particular. There have also been recommendations then to bring uh recommendations on recall timelines um for Europe and also on the settlement of recalls as well, because it's not simply sufficient, you know, to have a recommendation on when the recall takes place, but also by when it should s the uh the compression of the timelines across the settlement infrastructures is particularly complex because in Europe, let's say, and this is you know a comparison that we're all very familiar with, uh you know, parties love to compare the European capital markets with the US, uh obviously we've got a multiplicity of CSDs and ICSDs um using a range of platforms. Um so one of the um aspects that we had to consider when we did the the kind of current state assessment was to understand uh across those platforms which timelines are they working on. Um there is now the operational timeline uh recommendations to at least move uh, I would expect the vast majority of the settlement platforms in in Europe onto uh, let's say an aligned time frame. Um and also to agree on um on gating events or on timelines by which uh, for example, trading venues should communicate their their end of day, um clearing uh houses should communicate the reports then to um to the clearing members.

SPEAKER_01:

Um a couple of comments who also want to give like a drill down. To a specific example. So, Christian, you mentioned recall timeframes. So just to give you an idea of the scale, in the U.S., you have uh, you know, a single market, a single depository and uh and one process. When we're we're we're looking at in Europe, 90 different trading venues, uh, all with different closing times. And the reason that the closing time is important is that if an investor has stock on loan and they've decided to sell it and it needs a recall, uh, what typically happens is the lending intermediary, that that custodian bank, that specialist uh intermediary, the agent lender, typically what they do is they don't cancel a loan. They try to allocate it from client A to client B. They want continuity of lending. The borrower hasn't returned this securities because they still need it for their trade. So how do you keep stability? Well, yeah, hopefully you've got enough supply there that if client A sells it, client B can fulfill it. If you're getting to the biggest custodians out there that are actually having to make a recall on stock, what that means is that they don't have other clients that hold that. So you're already dealing with an illiquid position. So that's a real challenge. So if they determine they need to ask for it back, well, that's a problem. So they have to go as quickly as possible to a borrower. Today that's email, telephone call, Bloomberg message. So a core change in T plus one is automating that process so that it goes directly out to a borrower as fast as possible. So imagine the investor's sale instruction comes in uh you know faster now because they're trying to meet uh earlier uh transaction instruction cutoff times. That get hits the agent lender, determines there isn't a reallocation, and an automated message goes out to the borrower. First thing they're going to do is canvas their community, say, can I get it somewhere else? Well, we've already determined it's a tight name. So in the event they can't get it, their only choice and their legal obligation in the contract is to buy it. So what that means is that it has to be within the trading day. You can't send an instruction after the market's close because Securities Finance isn't just a post-trade environment, it's a trading day environment because of the impact in the cash market. So you have to have a cash cutoff time that's within the market being open, which makes everyone unhappy because investors say, well, I'm not done trading until the market's closed. And borrowers said, Yeah, but I still need as much time as I can in case I have to buy it. So we kind of looked at it and said, well, if we're making everyone a little bit unhappy, maybe we've hit the right spot because it's neither an advantage to the lender or borrower. They're both disgruntled. So, so that automation has to happen. The borrower has to borrow it somewhere else or maybe buy it. But then let's say they get it one way or another. It doesn't really matter. Then that that instruction, as Kathy said, it's not just how quickly does that recall notification get out to the borrower. They need to get it back um to the lender to be able to satisfy that cash market settlement on T plus one. So so all of those steps need to be rethought. All of those steps need to be automated. Um, and you know, it's it's a challenge because we've always had this extra day built in.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh one of the strong recommendations, or you know, they're all they're all strong recommendations in the in the uh a key one is uh the recommendation to have the instructions at the CSD by midnight. So basically 2359, one minute before the intended settlement day starts. Why is that? Because at the end of the day, we have until if you're talking DVP, uh in most markets, you've got until 1600 CT to settle a trade. So why do we say get your instructions in place before midnight? Well, that is, and you'll forgive me here for you know, let's say focusing on T2S, is that we have um agreed that the main settlement window of T2S will start at midnight. Today it starts at 8 p.m. on intended settlement date minus one. Um we've decided to push that out to midnight. Um, and the reason why it's so important or such a strong recommendation to get the instructions in place is that having the instruction at the CSD is not in itself enough. We want to make sure that we can settle all those transactions as efficiently as possible. Um and that means having the mass in place so that there are the best possible netting opportunities. I'll not go in now and talk about settlement algorithms and whatever, but it's kind of logical. If you've got hundreds of thousands of transactions all available to settle at one minute past midnight, then you're going you're going to benefit from the maximum netting possibilities in terms of efficient use of liquidity and efficient use of inventory. Um and one of the other challenges related to that is um the fact that there is activity that today takes place, particularly in the securities financing world, it takes place on T plus one, and in future that is going to take place on T plus zero in terms of um repo and funding activity. And some of the discussions that we're having at the moment um are around how do we create the best preconditions for that activity so that it can settle, even if it the transactions aren't being booked until, say, uh 9.30 on a T plus zero basis. We're still trying to create solutions that will enable a maximum of inventory and liquidity netting.

SPEAKER_03:

We're running the GFF summit now for 30 years, and the leitmotive of next year is uh where the market meets. So we we've been doing certain things right, uh, I believe, because the market always met uh and and we were always there with our products at the right moment. Um is this going to be the case in the future? Um so what are the uh predictions for uh for the future to our guests?

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, well, if I look, let's say a year ahead, um so I'm actually gonna jump over let's say the the January uh GFF, but I look forward to I'm sure we'll have a lot of good discussions there as ever. Um if I look a year ahead, will everything be lined up perfectly? No, of course not, because we live in the real world. Um I think we will be on a good path. I would like to think that we will be on a very good path. We've said that for 2027 that should be a year of testing. Um is everybody gonna be, you know, ready to go on the 2nd of January? No, they won't be. Um but I do believe that if people do their, let's say, do their job and uh follow the guidance that's coming out from the industry committee that we as an industry collectively should be in a good position. Um and the proof will be in the pudding. You know, we will we will see in terms of that market readiness um activity where we land. I think there'll be opportunities. I think there will be some participants who will be really challenging. Um and I come back uh you know to to Roy's comment before around uh some organizations maybe saying with things like partial settlement, um, it's too operationally difficult. I think those kind of arguments are not going to wash in future. Um it's going to be a case of if you want to uh operate in this industry and be profitable and successful in this industry, then you need to be on board with uh all the preparations for for T plus one. And that will then be a good place to operate. So uh the other thing I would say on the crystal ball is it doesn't stop on the 11th of October 2027. Um it will be a case of that is the first day, but there will also be a continuation of that. There will be market adaptations, there will be a continued level of market improvement because we don't stop challenging ourselves in October 27.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I think buy side institutions, the the top end, they already differentiate uh who they do business with based on the capability of those entities. And so I think there'll be an entry point to do business that will be evolving. So a year from now, the demands placed on the sell side institutions will be forcing them to uh do that. The the buy side is gonna say, look, if we have to get confirmations done, we have to get trades out faster, if we have to make all these changes on my end, you better be able to deliver that, or we just won't deal with you. So I think the 2027, I think you'll see people backing away from entities that aren't, that don't appear to be ready for it. And so does that now then create a bifurcated market where, you know, the dodgy firms are dealing with the dodgy firms, the ones that haven't made the commitment or investment. You know, this it this can't be like some of the other regulatory impositions where the last three months or last six months of UMR, everyone was chasing around to find someone to be their collateral custodian or uh in a mirror, you know, the the the dreadful mess that Refit ended up being and the pain that it caused everyone. You know, I I'm hoping that we've learned from that and people with two years' notice. That's that's two funding cycles. The reason we we raced to get the EU project in or recommendations in by the end of June was to make certain that people had the UK recommendations and the EU recommendations so they would be able to say, right now, how do we plan? Hopefully they've put that into their budgeting cycles now so that they can do work next year and they have another go at it next year. So, you know, if there's failures, then you know, those firms deserve to uh to be left behind, frankly. And I think they will be by the market.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, sadly, we do have to draw things to a close there for this very special T plus one episode. If you want to catch up with Roy and Kathy, of course, you can catch them on our LinkedIn page. That is LinkedIn.com slash company slash clear stream, where you can network with Roy and Kathy and uh see all the events they're up to there. And uh meanwhile though, while we've got you here in the studio, what have you got coming up on your agenda between now and next year?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh events coming up. I've got at least one more podcast um next week. Um and uh I will be doing quite a lot of training between now and the end of end of the year, um, really giving people sort of that ground ground basis for the changes to T plus one and what it means for their customers. So I think uh I have oh, this Isla T plus One Postray Conference on the 20th of November. Uh, and another event which is still to be scheduled. Oh, Abu Dhabi. I'm going to Abu Dhabi to talk about ETFs at the end of November as well.

SPEAKER_04:

I've got a bit of a lull now. Uh I've got or no, I was gonna say I've got space in my diary. I've not got space in my diary, but I've got a little bit of a lull after a very busy few months, but certainly uh I'll be speaking at the Exta conference um in November on T Plus One. Um we've got uh uh a ClearStream webcast coming up on T Plus One and also we are um really pleased with our uh the the take up on our T plus One dedicated newsletter, uh where we've got some great content uh being pushed out on that.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, we really are out of time now. Thank you so much to our very special guests. This could run and run this one. Do make sure uh you check out our LinkedIn page and hook up with Roy and Kathy. Uh in the meantime, huge thank you in no particular order to our very special guest, Roy Zimmerhanzel, uh head of capital markets for WTS Hansuki.

SPEAKER_01:

Appreciate the opportunity. Thanks very much. Always great talking to you and Clearstream and Kathy, who uh who I engage with quite a lot anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

And yes, that's a huge thank you to Kathy Waldy, who is the head of target service governance. Uh Clearstream. Kathy, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you so much. It's been uh it's been an absolute blast and uh a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, well, we have a World Cup coming up. We know that uh Callan Anna Fionsa has uh Holland at his sights. Uh, what about yourself? Is Scotland gonna make a comeback?

SPEAKER_05:

I'm an optimist, but I don't think I'm that optimistic.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed uh that the lads are gonna bring it home one day. Okay. Christian, what have we got coming up in our Christmas special?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, Andrew, we are going to travel with our virtual studio to Saudi Arabia for the end of the year. And um, you might have noticed that uh ClearStream and uh the EDA group, which is a subsidiary of the Saudi Tadawool Group, have signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly launch um a new post-trade service for the Saudi capital market, which is um the Saudi Collateral Management Service. So we will be uh doing that in December. And then we are already at the end of the year, and uh in January, as you know, we have the GFF summit, so everybody has received its invitation in the inbox now. And I invite everybody who listens to the show that uh they should uh register and book their um flights and uh hotel rooms. And we are excited because it's going to be very special. It's going to be an anniversary, so 30 years of uh GFF Summit, and uh you will be again uh together with me on stage um at the Central Bank and Sow Wealth Fund Forum.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't forget to join us at linkedin.com slash company slash clear stream. Yes, our LinkedIn page where you can network with Kathy and network with Roy and Christian and myself and everyone else who's been on the show this year. And find out more about uh ClearStream's T Plus One preparations. Uh the T Plus One Dream Team is coming together. Do check that out, and of course, our new partnership with uh the E Group in Saudi Arabia. Okay, uh in the meantime, all that remains is to say bye-bye from me, Andrew Keith Walker, and from my co-host, Mr. Christian Russler. Bye-bye. See you next time. And don't forget, this show is brought to you by ClearStream and features members of the ClearStream team and special guests expressing their personal opinions and not the opinions of ClearStream as an organization. There is no representation made as to the accuracy or completeness of information in this podcast, and nor should it be taken as any legal tax or other professional advice. Bye-bye.