#190: Digital Reset: Apps, Emails, Photos, and Calendars Made Simple

Digital clutter may not take up physical space, but it consumes valuable mental bandwidth and creates background anxiety we often ignore. This episode provides a comprehensive September reset for five key digital areas.

• Phone usage is examined through the lens of "pickups" rather than screen time—revealing how we check phones every 8 minutes on average
• Simple strategies for breaking phone addiction include app deletion, grayscale display, and designated check-in times
• Computer organization focuses on desktop cleanup, download folder purging, and refreshing wallpapers
• Email management tips include separate addresses for different purposes (personal, kids' activities, shopping)
• Photo organization works best with timed 10-minute sessions, starting with older photos where emotional attachment is lower
• Color-coded family calendars serve as the "single source of truth" with different colors for each family member and activity type
• Breaking digital decluttering into small, manageable 10-minute sessions makes the process less overwhelming

Join me in this digital reset journey—I've already reduced my phone pickups from 90 to 37 per day and feel mentally lighter. I'd love to hear your thoughts on phone usage and digital decluttering strategies!

www.daraboxer.com

Transcript

Introduction to Digital Decluttering

Dara Boxer 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to the Raw and the Cooked, a weekly podcast that provides simple routines around the home plus raw and honest book reviews. My name is Dara, I'm a Midwestern stay-at-home mom to four young kids, and I thrive on simplicity. Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode. Today we are diving right into digital, decluttering Our phones, our computers, our emails, our camera roll and our calendars.

My Phone Addiction Journey

Dara Boxer 0:26

I feel like so much of our world is digital and it's really easy to let things build up, pile up and just kind of like get out of control because it's not physical, right Like it doesn't really matter if you have 14,000 photos on your camera roll or your inbox has 10,000 emails right Like it doesn't really matter. It's not like it takes up physical space, but it does take up a little bit of mental bandwidth, and so I feel like it's good to sort of stay on top of this stuff, because I know how easy it is to ignore it. It's easy to ignore because it's not like a drawer spilling out, like a junk drawer you can't close. It's not like your closet that's like super messy and needs like a big purge, right Like it's just like on your email app or like your camera roll like who cares, like you don't see it. However, I do believe that, keeping in step with a simplified and organized life, we do need to tend to these digital matters. We do need to tend to these digital matters. So I think September is a really good time of the year to do this, because we have now entered a new back to school season, new routines, and there's something about the new school year that brings about a fresh start. We always spring clean our homes right and we declutter regularly, and I think that September is a really good time to do sort of a digital spring cleaning and just like a little bit of maintenance. So I'm going to encourage you to grab a timer and to just pick one area that you feel overwhelmed and I know you know what it is Like. I'm going to list some of the things we're talking about. We're going to do our phones, our computer, our email, our photos and our calendars, and if one of them, if you hear one of those five things and you're kind of like, oh gosh, that's the one I'm going to highly encourage you to tackle, just like spearhead it get it over with. Okay. So let's dive right in. Actually, no, before we dive into this.

Dara Boxer 2:19

I wanted to talk about my phone. I had a blog post that I posted on daraboxercom about my millennial mom journey to becoming I mean, I'm not going to be screen free, like it's impossible in 2025, but just a quick backstory before we dive into this episode. So I was home with all four of my kids essentially like all summer long, and I noticed I would just grab for my phone constantly and like just scrolling, just doing whatever like not even I don't even have social media on my phone. So like just scrolling, just doing whatever like not even I don't even have social media on my phone. So like I wasn't even like doing that, I would just like find myself compulsively reaching for it, grabbing it, bringing it with me from room to room as I'm like doing stuff with the kids, like it just started to feel really gross. And then I'm talking about my childhood and how I mean I mean I grew up in the 90s and phones were not like a thing Like, of course, like a house phone with an answering machine and we had like a desktop computer and that was kind of it Like obviously there were no like cell phones, so I don't have any memories of my parents scrolling on their phones as I'm a child, or my grandparents or caregivers, right, like there's just something about it that's like kind of gross. And so I don't know what inspired me one day, but I just like opened up my screen time and I was kind of horrified by the screen time minutes.

Dara Boxer 3:33

But then I like started looking and doing a little bit of research and I realized that screen time isn't a totally accurate portrayal of how much you use your phone actively, because let's say, let's say you have, um, I don't know, a podcast playing and you're cooking for an hour in the kitchen listening to podcast after podcast or an audio book or whatever it is, or even on the phone that's going to log minutes of screen time even though they're inactive, or it's like it's passive use, if that makes any sense. So like if I have the maps going, cause I'm doing a four hour road trip, that will look like four hours on my phone, even though my phone was like locked and sitting like in a cup holder, right? So a more accurate way to gauge your screen and phone usage is looking at your pickups, which is also on the same metric. So if you go to your settings and you look at screen time. If you scroll all the way down, you'll see the pick metric. So if you go to your settings and you look at screen time, if you scroll all the way down, you'll see the pickups and it gives you a daily pickup the first time you pick up your phone, what time of the day that is, and the most used app after you pick up your phone.

Dara Boxer 4:36

And, uh, according to chat GPT, the metrics for users, like if you're a light user, you're picking up your phone anywhere from like 40 to 60 times. If you're a light user, you're picking up your phone anywhere from 40 to 60 times. If you're a moderate user, it's like 60 to 80. And then a heavy user is 80 and above pickups. And what was kind of horrifying is after talking to ChatGPT about it, because that's what, and the math on that is, if you're picking up your phone, let's say, 50 times a day during your awake hours, that's you essentially checking your phone like every eight minutes, which is kind of insane. And yes, I know like there are some instances where you like open your phone, you check a message, you close it. Then you have to open it up because you have to like make a phone call right, so like it can be a little deceptive and it's not like you're getting interrupted exactly eight minutes on the dot. But I guess, like the point is, I just felt really gross about it because when I looked at my history, I was hovering in the 90s of pickups per day and like that's a lot, it's a lot. And so I started thinking what else could I do and how can I tackle this? And so some of the things I had done in the past small little things that helped with my phone usage, even though it didn't obviously cure it, because I'm still picking up my phone essentially 90 times during the week hours.

Dara Boxer 6:08

So my husband and I have always had a zero tolerance policy for phones at the table, so you will never see us eating a meal together or with the kids or as a family with phones at the table, and that has been a hard line from day one. We have started keeping our phones in the kitchen, so that's where our phones are overnight. They have not been on our nightstands since about 2017, which felt huge. We both had deleted social media apps one by one over the years and fewer notifications For the last couple of years. I've only kept messages and calls on and ring. I don't know why, but I had my ring app on as well. And in the last couple of years we've also been doing a phone Sabbath. So from Friday night to Saturday night we put our phones away in a drawer and it doesn't happen every Saturday night, but we've been really good about it. I would say as the years have gone up we've had more and more phone Sabbaths. In general, I feel like if you were to count the trajectory of how many Sabbaths and phone Sabbaths we've done this year will probably rank the number one. So all those things really helped, but they obviously were not quite enough.

Dara Boxer 7:15

So what I decided to do? I had a game plan for myself, so I've done a couple of things that have really really helped. So number one I decided no phone before 7am, like if I wake up I usually wake up around like 545, six o'clock, I'm not to look at my phone before 7am, which gives me time to do other things like pray and read scripture and a little bit of Bible work. It allows me to do some gratitude journaling or just drink a cup of coffee, maybe take a shower, like other stuff. I started designated check-in times for myself, so I might check it in the morning just to see if any texts or whatever came through, and then I might check it again before I do preschool drop off and then maybe a mid-morning check. I have some designated times to check it, but I'm not checking it all the time. I decided to delete a bunch of apps, like anything that I can do from a computer which, by the way, is most things I'm going to do and a huge one for me.

Dara Boxer 8:14

I always find myself just scrolling through my email. I don't know why it's so weird. I'm a stay-at-home mom, I don't have like a real job, I'm not like beholden to anyone's schedule or anything other than my children, but I don't need to check my email. There's nothing there, but it's still just this weird compulsive habit. And so I deleted the email off my phone, just took the app off. It's gone, and so I'm only checking my emails from my laptop now, maybe once, maybe twice a day.

Breaking Phone Habits: My Game Plan

Dara Boxer 8:43

Shopping I don't have Target Amazon, like none of it is happening on my phone. All of that shopping is happening from my laptop. I have also turned grayscale on my phone, so that's a little hack. I don't think it really does much. I mean, I can see the science behind it, but that's kind of it. So those are like the big things that I've done so far, and I want to have an entire episode dedicated to this journey. But I want to say that so far this has been working really well, because last week my pickups dropped below 40. They were I would think it was like an average of 37 last week and that felt like a huge win. I more than halved my pickups and it felt good. It felt really, really good.

Dara Boxer 9:29

I think my overall goal is to use my phone like a phone. I use it for phone calls and for text messages and, you know, a lot of text messages can also be done from my computer, because I'm very fortunate enough to have a Mac and it's it's, you know synced together with iCloud and whatever, so I can message my friends from my computer. Um, I can make a lot of phone calls from my computer too, which is awesome. But for the sake of this exercise, like, I really just want to use my phone for maps and podcasts and audio books and phone calls and that's kind of it. I don't need to use my phone for other stuff. There really are not any other apps I need on a day-to-day basis. So like what am I even doing? Okay, so that's like my big project this year.

Dara Boxer 10:14

And then another side tangent. I know I've been going on for a while at this point about this phone situation, but I also wanted to know like what else could I be grabbing and reaching for other than my phone? And so I ended up purchasing a new book that does a daily guide of scripture and prayer that I now reread the day's lessons and recenter myself to really just connect with God anytime that I feel that annoying pull to check my phone because it's just so hard. Okay, so I'm really excited about today's episode because I feel like all of this is going to tie into using my phone less. So. Number one we're talking about phones and apps, so I wanted to look at my phone and ask myself do I really need this app? And the answer for almost all the apps I have is no. I've deleted almost everything, to the point where I have podcasts, I have Apple Music, I have Pandora, the calculator, maps, reminders, text and calls and everything else is gone. It's just gone.

Dara Boxer 11:21

You don't have to delete. Delete them, like if you like. For example, if there's an app that you at some point want, like, okay, actually, here's. Here's a perfect example the hatch that's our sound machine. You, you can control it on your phone. You don't have to have it. But I also don't want to delete it because, like, we still have a baby that uses a noisemaker, but it's off my homepage. You can still delete it and it'll go in your app library. So, in the rare event I do need to go in there and edit something on her settings. I can do that with my phone, but it's not there and I'm not tempted to click on it because it's not on my homepage. Does that make any sense? And so I deleted basically everything. I have also turned off all notifications. I don't even want to be notified for phone calls or text messages. I can check during my designated morning checks.

Dara Boxer 12:16

So I encourage you to really sit down and look at all the apps that you have on your phone, like social media games, whatever it is, and these are what we would call time-sucking apps, and they're low productivity, they're low reward, right, but I get that. Everyone needs to shut off their brain a little bit, and maybe you want to do. What is the new popular game that people are playing Wordle. Is that a thing? I would encourage you to make a folder on your phone and put those apps that you don't totally want to delete, but ones that you don't want, so easily available. Make it a little bit challenging for yourself to do those. Another hack I had for Amazon it used to just be too easy to open up the app and add a bunch of stuff and buy it and whatever. So what I've done? I just deleted the app.

Dara Boxer 12:58

And if I needed to use this on my phone or whatever because I don't know, sometimes situations just come up I would have to go through Safari to Amazon. I would have myself always logged out, so I would have to manually put in my username, my password. Like it just creates like extra barriers and like, yes, it's annoying, but it also kind of like tamps down and it kind of like, as you're going through this like lengthy process to do this when you could have just clicked the app you think to yourself like wait, do I really need this? Like it kind of it kind of like gives you a pause. So I do recommend that. Um, and there's something really rewarding and satisfying about a visual, clean, simple home screen where you're not. It's not just like totally cluttered up, like I just have like a couple things there and it just feels good. It feels like it feels as good as opening a closet that you've recently cleaned out decluttered, organized, and you know that everything in that closet is stuff that fits you, you love to wear it and it's comfortable, and that's sort of what I like about opening my phone. Now it's just the stuff I use and need is a strong word, but right, so that is kind of it.

Decluttering Phone Apps

Dara Boxer 14:11

Okay, so now for number two, the computer. And I don't have a lengthy tangent for you on the computer, but I would recommend going for low hanging fruit first, that being a desktop cleanup. So files or anything that you have saved to your desktop that you are not going to need or you can just delete, um, I would also encourage you to go through your downloads folder, and again, that's usually full of stuff you don't need anymore. If you do, I would put in a folder marked for sort later and empty your trash bin. Those three tasks are super easy, all low hanging fruit to clean up your computer and just give it an. Ah.

Dara Boxer 14:51

I don't know about you, but I'm the type of person that I save like a bunch of stuff on my desktop, just like photos that I think I'm going to print later, like school stuff for the kids that I'm never going to use. Like I always download the school handbook and like have it on my desktop and it's like I don't think I've ever ever in like the seven years I've been a parent, have like referenced the handbook that I always just have saved on my desktop. So just like, let all that stuff go. And I'm not saying this will work for everyone, because some people probably have a job, like a real job, and they can't just totally like delete everything on their like downloads and desktop. But I encourage you to set a timer for like five, 10 minutes and just sort of like give it a go. And for me, after I do this, I always feel so much better because there's just so much stuff on my desktop. It just looks like a mess. And every time I open my computer I'm always like ooh, but not after September, because I feel like it's going to be nice and tidy. And another fun bonus tip is to refresh your desktop wallpaper when you're done, sort of like putting on a fresh pair of sheets on a bed, right, like we've changed, we've cleaned up, we've changed and like here we go, um, and I do love the sort later folder because it kind of gives you permission to like clean everything up, but if you wanted to go through something later, like you can, um, so that's always fun.

Dara Boxer 16:13

Okay, so emails this is kind of a mess for me and has been an absolute mess. I have so many emails. I don't know why or how it happened, it just did and I'm in the process of one by one, deleting and consolidating my emails. But I heard a really interesting tip that I loved a couple of months ago and it was for children that are in school or activities or whatever have like one designated email address for like all that, all those school emails, because it is a lot and I personally hate having it clutter up my personal email with like reminders for school or this or another, like solicitation from the baby gym or like the soccer class that like keeps sending emails Like I don't want that in my personal email. My husband was like I don't understand why you can't just make a folder that these get automatically routed, but I just can't, I want it separate and this is probably why I have like a thousand email addresses, but I'm working on it. So, anyway, I really liked that tip, so we started a new email address.

Cleaning Up Your Computer

Dara Boxer 17:22

I say we. I started a new email address because my husband has no problem filtering his stuff on his own. He's also a fan of all these school emails. I thought it would be easy just to have one, but you know that's beside the point. So now between my four kids, they're in two different schools and they're in four different activities, and now all of that stuff, all of the emails, all the promotions, all the whatever gets routed to that email address, and I love it. I love it. I know that when I check and I sit down at lunchtime after the kids are napping, I open up the email, I reply, I do what I need to do. It is beautiful, so I'm really happy with it.

Dara Boxer 18:02

However, there are also other things you can do. I know a lot of people who are not zero inbox people. I'm a zero inbox person. It drives me bananas to have more than like 10 emails. For me, if an email is sitting in my email account, it means it's something that needs to be followed up on or something that's like pending or like it's not complete and, like I love a zero down inbox, I would encourage you, if you're not that type of person, to do an unsubscribe from junk. You do not need to receive emails from Pottery Barn for their sales or promotions, like you know, and if you want to go shopping and if you want to look and browse Madewell and Athleta like, you'll go to their website. You don't need their emails as a reminder like oh hey, like this is the new, you know, fall, whatever. Um, so again you can do my husband's tactic and like have folders and labels to kind of like, sort and organize. I would love to be that person but I can't.

Managing Email Overload

Dara Boxer 19:02

I felt like I looked at my inbox and I'm usually pretty good about like unsubscribing and like keeping like promotions and those types of things off of my inbox, but I really just wanted a separate one for school and activities because I just do not want it crowding up my stuff. So I really like that I also another one of my email addresses is like purely for shopping. Like that's like where all my Target and Amazon and like anytime we buy like I don't know, like my. I bought my husband Cole Han shoes a couple of weeks ago and you know they're going to like spam me until I'm dead and well beyond that and like I don't know. It's annoying, but I just I want it all separate. So I have one for shopping now, one for my kids' school and activities and another one for like I don't know other stuff, I guess personal. No one emails me. So yeah, there's that. Okay. So I would also do like a search and a mass delete, so like anything that's older than like the last 24 months. You probably don't need it. So just give yourself permission to do like a fresh start archive like those 15,000 emails that you don't need. No, don't even archive them, just delete them. You don't need them. I promise you you don't need them, okay.

Dara Boxer 20:11

So number four in our digital detox, we're going to do photos. So I have done several, several episodes on photos and I'm going to encourage you to listen to episode number 156, which is organizing your family photos, and episode number 49, which is curating an annual photo yearbook for your family. So those are episodes that I think are really great, because I think that it's really hard to sort and organize and like get started. I think a lot of people want to do a family yearbook where they print like one book a year and it's really hard because you're now sorting through like 3000 photos on your phone. It's just a lot. And so, again, I like I love a timer. I love a year, and it's really hard because you're now sorting through like 3000 photos on your phone. It's just a lot. And so, again, I like I love a timer. I love a timer. It makes things manageable and bite size and easy. So setting a 10 minute timer and then just scrolling backwards, um, helps a lot.

Dara Boxer 21:07

And a pro tip is I think it's easier and quicker to delete older photos than newer. So if you're scrolling, okay, so we're mid-September by the time this episode releases it's going to be a lot harder for you and more time consuming for you to go back and delete, basically from like September 1st through yesterday, than if you were to scroll all the way back up to January of 2025. Like, does that make any sense? Like, those photos are now like nine months old and they'll be a lot easier and like less emotional connectivity and that way you'll be able to like sort through. Like you know, when you're taking photos of, like your pets or your kids, you have to take like 35 pictures to get one good one. So it's like the same series and it's like basically the same picture 35 times and so a lot of times, the older that is, the easier it is to pick the best one. Whereas, like if that happened, if that event happened yesterday, and you're sorting through those 35 photos, like it's going to be really hard. I don't know what it is about time, but I feel like it like smooths and heals things over so you'll be able to delete with like less, like guilt and shame, I don't know. I know it feels really weird to delete photos of your kids, but I promise you not all of them are keepers and not all of them will make it to the yearbook, right, Like it is okay to delete photos of your children if they're like, not that good Like, and another point that I wanted to make is you can only have so many photos of your children before they sort of like lose the value and like the specialness.

Dara Boxer 22:39

Right, like when we're dead and like, maybe, god willing, we've printed a bunch of photos of our children and they're sorting through this and they're going through their memories, like they're not going to want to sort through a box of like 5,000 photos, right, like they're not all going to be amazing photos, right, like, think about how many pictures you have of your grandparents and of your parents and of your own childhood, and I bet you can probably come up with like a handful, maybe a dozen, maybe two dozen if you're lucky. But I think about my maternal grandparents. God rest them. I love them dearly, but I probably only care about three photos of them, that's it. And there weren't that many to choose from, but that made it even more special, right?

Dara Boxer 23:30

And so I don't know, I think about my children and I've said this before like I don't think they're going to want to sort through 500 pictures of them from the month of June in 2023. Right, like they're not going to care. So I know it feels weird, but like I promise you, not all of them are going to be kept. No one's going to want to deal with all of this in the future. So, like I don't know, just like, just try your hardest, okay. So, right, like, yeah, okay, I know that's like really dark and really macabre. I'm sorry, but it's true, right, like I don't know, it's just, it is what it is, okay. So, moving on, I feel like I've said my piece Family calendars.

Photo Organization Strategy

Dara Boxer 24:13

So this is like my one source of truth. Like I ride and die by my family calendar. I do not know how else to do it. I just use the calendar that is connected on my phone and on my computer. So what is that? Like the Apple calendar, and like that is like my ride or die. Like when I reply an RSVP to birthday parties that goes in immediately, um right. Like I have when my children get dropped off, at which activity, the dates, the times you're able to set like repeat events. So I know, looking at my calendar, who's available, when and how and where people need to be.

Dara Boxer 24:52

My family calendar is now color-coded, which is a huge lifesaver. Huge lifesaver and this is a pro tip for my cousin. I love Debbie, if you're listening, I love you so much. You have just been like life-giving for me. My cousin is four years older than I am and she is basically like four years ahead of me in life, maybe a little bit more. Anyway, her kids are older. Her kids are 13, 11, and 7. And so she has a couple of years ahead of me and she told me that the best thing she did was to color code her family calendar.

Dara Boxer 25:27

So each one of my children has their own color my older kids because they do a lot of activities together, like a lot of times they have camp and overlapping and they go to the same school and a lot of times they do play dates together. So it's just easier for me to have like a big kid's color. So I know, if I see, like royal purple that is those are my two older kids for something that they're both doing and same with the little kids, because I have my three-year-old and my one-year-old home with me and so a lot of times their activities and our play dates are going to overlap with that and so they have their own color. My husband has his own color, I have a color of my own, our house has a color of its own. So any appointments for the house, the contractors, our cleaning ladies, whatever it is home related that gets its own color. So I know like hey, like this is happening for the house. And then the last color I have I know it sounds it's like adding up quite a bit. I think I have like 10 colors altogether and then I have like a family color and that's like when all of us are involved or even just like me and all the kids like, maybe minus my husband.

Dara Boxer 26:30

I really wish my husband would join me on this calendar adventure. I feel like it would make life a little bit easier. But he's not and he doesn't, so it's like all on me, which is fine. But what I wanted to tell you was that color coding is a lifesaver and my new tip for this year was doing a big kid and a little kid color. So that was also like really helpful, because a lot of times I would use, like the older kids, color for both of them, but then I would forget that like my, my younger son, needed to also tag along. So it just it got kind of complicated. So like the big kid and the little kid color really helped. And so, um, again, having like everything in the calendar, like of course I know on a Tuesday that my older kids are in school from eight to four, but again having the pickup in the calendar and the drop off in the calendar, like it just keeps the whole day visible at a glance and it's just like so good, it's so good.

Dara Boxer 27:26

So I do the family calendar in my phone, which is connected to my computer. I mostly use it. Well, I use it. I use it both. I want to stay off my phone as much as possible, as I had mentioned in the beginning of the episode, but sometimes it's not possible. But I do do a lot of planning when I'm like sitting down after lunch, the little kids are napping and I'll like kind of go through my calendar and like set the week. Um, I usually try to do this on Sundays, where I just like plan out the upcoming week, and it's just, it's really helpful. I also have a calendar on the fridge and again, I have all the different colors, the same ones that coordinate with my phone and my computer. So my electronic and my dry erase calendar, the color coordination, works. My husband kind of has a general idea of the colors and so he can glance at it and I do update it manually. Obviously it's a dry erase board so he can glance at the week coming ahead. So that's been helpful. And then I also have a planner, so I'm writing my calendar in three different spots, which sounds like a lot, but it's really not as intense as it sounds. But for me this is what works best for my system.

Color-Coding Family Calendars

Dara Boxer 28:33

If you're like all digital, no paper, you do you. If you're paper like all the way, and you could not do digital, like do whatever works for you Like. The point is that your brain can't hold all of it together Like it's a lot. So having it written down somewhere, whether it's pen to paper or digitally, you do whatever works for you. For me it is having three of them, but I don't know, that's just the season of life we're in. I don't foresee it changing anytime soon. So I'm fine with it.

Dara Boxer 29:06

Okay, so, overall wrap up, I don't think that you need to do all of this once. Um, I think that if you set a timer for 10 minutes, you do maybe your apps today, your emails tomorrow, your photos on the weekend, um, and just like frame it to yourself as like a September digital reset and that's all. It is just a reset, just a quick reset. And so I'm going to again encourage you to pick one thing, the one that you're like really like, oh, I don't want to do that and just do it. Just do it 10 minutes, 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there, and it really makes a difference. And so, for me, again, I just really like to kind of have like a handle on all of it. I love to be as organized as possible. I feel like it keeps things running smooth and simple and, yeah, so that's all I have for you today, just a digital reset, and if you have any thoughts on your phone usage, I would love to hear it.

Dara Boxer 30:05

I started having some conversations with this about some of with some of my friends, and it was really eyeopening to hear everyone's take and their perspective on their phones and their pickups and their usages.

Dara Boxer 30:15

And so, yeah, I don't know like interesting things we live in like really weird dystopian times, and if you look around, it's not that hard to see people just like walking on a beautiful day, like scrolling and I'm not saying like I'm never that person, like of course I am, like I'm a human being and it's 2025, but it's just like really weird and I feel like it's so common just to see people like looking down and having something in their hand and not totally paying attention, or like keeping it on the table when you're having lunch with somebody, and like I don't know, it's like weird, you know. So I don't want to be that person anymore. So I'm doing, I'm doing the best I can. I'm going to update you on this journey because it's been really eye-opening so far and I want to update you in a couple of weeks on how it's going. So thank you guys for listening and I'll catch you back here next week.