Final Cocodona Thoughts, Transvulcania Recap, Western States Updates (Singletrack News)

Alyssa Clark is back in the co-host seat for this week's edition of Singletrack News. It's a bit of a non-traditional episode as we go longer and spend the first half trading thoughts on this year's Cocodona 250. After that, we go through a brief recap of Transvulcania, a preview of Zegama and other local and international races this coming weekend + our content and gear picks of the week.

Partners:

• Precision Fuel and Hydration - use code SINGLETRACK at checkout for 15% off your next order
• Norda - check out the 005: the lightest, fastest, most stable trail racing shoe ever made
• Raide - Making equipment for efficient human-powered movement in the mountains 
• Janji - premium trail running apparel

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the Monday, May 11th edition of Single Track News, joined by Alyssa Clark, who is fresh off a masterful commentating experience at the Coke on 250 this past week, which is its own ultra, I would say. How are you recovering from the job?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Oh gosh. Well, let's just say I had a seven-hour drive back yesterday, and I was quite excited to sit for a lot of that in silence or listening to podcasts that had very little to do with running.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Well, here's the thing. So we, Brett, Lee, and I, midweek this past week, did sort of a quick reactions Coca-Dona recap episode. It was sort of after both the men's and women's podiums had finished up, but like there's I feel like there's still a lot to honor and talk about here and absolutely wanted to get some of your takeaways. I have a few that I've developed in the past few days as well, but um Yeah, we can kind of riff off of riff off each other as we do. What is top of mind for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah, you know, I think I feel like there's the obvious things where it's like course records broken, Rachel coming in first overall. I I feel like those have been talked about quite a bit. So I want to pull back. I think on the media side is something I really wanted to dive into. So I did have the chance to be on the commentating team for Mountain Outpost. I see a lot of the behind the scenes it's happening. The level of production that Mountain Outpost is putting together right now is just insane. I mean, a multiple piece commentating team. We have an in-studio team, we have field editors, we have the Kokodona Chronicles, we have now added the Kokodona Confessionals. There's just so many parts are drone operators. Mitch, I'm naming you by name because Mitch was like, they never name the drone operators. They just say, Thanks, drone operators. So Mitch, awesome job. Um, and just the like then there's runner cams. So I feel like the elevation of the product the Mountain Outpost is putting out, I just have to having seen it really closely, is amazing. And I think just elevates the sport. So I think that's something I will say there's a good and a bad of the media. So that was, I feel like, the good side. The bad side is that I feel like Coca-Dona has become an like it's it again, it's good and bad, but it's like it's it has become such a spectacle of a race to the general public, which is good. It brings more eyes on trail running, but also it felt like everyone had a camera or a camera crew. You could not see the athletes at the start line of Coca-Dona. There were camera people three to four deep standing in front of the runners, and then they had to tell everyone to get out with 10 seconds to go. But it was one of the most in like insane media kind of blitz. There, I mean, the drones, there were so many drones that looked like Christmas lights up. So just the the media side, it's like there, I feel as though we're going to have to start putting in regulations to a certain extent of like where people are able to go, kind of the access in some ways to preserve some of the experience. So it's kind of a double-edged sword of wow, look at this visibility, but also how do we kind of keep some of that home grown like roots of trail running feeling?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Great. It really, I mean, this is an interesting discussion because, like you said, like on the one hand, that freedom of access and sort of like grassroots content creation is part of what probably propelled Coca-Dona to this status this quickly, right? Um, so it's like, do you bite the hand that feeds you? But then I totally understand that too. I've seen a couple articles on it out there on Substack and on Instagram, and it's crazy to think about. It's it's crazy that we're already at this point that we have to think about. Those are like Western states problems. And I know, for example, at Western states, I think it was subtle, but I believe this is the first year they've introduced a policy for media where if you are directly representing a brand, you pay a$2,000 fee.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Whoa. Okay, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Um and this this doesn't account. I don't I I I don't think this counts for outlets like Free Trail, Single Track, I Run Far, who are trying to approach it, you know, relatively journalistically. But I do believe if you're a photographer or a videographer for throw a random, scratch labs or ultra, I think you do have to pony up. And maybe the thinking there is um, I mean, one of the many thoughts there is maybe that does a good job at filtering people who actually want to be out there on race day. I'm not sure. And I I'll be curious to see the night before Western how big the circle is around uh, I think it's John who does like the and Billy who do the final sort of like media rules before race day. But um I mean, you kind of mentioned it there, but any any policies come to mind for you, like any quick fixes or things that might mediate better for next year?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

I do think having some well, I think having perhaps a limitation in aid stations, you know, a little bit similar to UTMB, where it's like, okay, you can have two people with you or three people with you versus 10 or 15, um, which it seems to be. I think also limiting perhaps the start line of like, hey, actually, you know, 15, you know, like UTMB, there there are not crowds of there are photographers, there's videos, but they're not really like right in front of the runners as much as Kogadon says, like, okay, clearing out 15 minutes before the race starts so that there's time for the athletes to kind of have a moment. It just feels honestly, and we talked about this that um how do you give runners enough space to be runners and to do their job to be competitors? And that's also the question we get when you have all of these follow cams, where it's like, how much of those follow cams interrupting a runner's decision making of are like if they are talking to their pacer and they're not feeling good, are they going to actually be able to say that if there's a follow cam on them? Or if they are um, you know, looking and trip, like a drone goes overhead, they look, they trip and fall. And also, too, just a competitive piece of you know, locking in on that mindset and also things like giving direction. I mean, like I was right there when Killian absolutely murdered himself on a fall. I mean, fell so hard. And I was like, I can't touch him, I can't do anything, like I can't pick up his poles or anything. It's just like I don't want to get in his way, but it's really hard not to intervene. And so all of a sudden it's like you go from, oh, this is a pacerless section to, hey, there's a camera person with this runner for the entire like 12 miles. And so I think that's something we're still figuring out as a sport. That's not just Coca Dona, that's all of the races where they have follow camps. I mean, I've run with cameras a bunch, and it's like all of a sudden you got someone with you. It's like, well, that's kind of another human intervention. Um, so I just don't know how we're gonna figure it this out. I feel like there is kind of this gray area again that's like, how is a sport evolving? I mean, it's similar to like sponsorship spots, that kind of thing. It's like we're we're growing bigger almost than like we can professionalize in a way.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I feel like this is maybe a a problem that almost every single sport is facing. And as you were talking there, one of the examples, and this is more this more has to do with just like savoring the moment and appreciating it. But we reference um The Last Dance, the Michael Jordan documentary, and this podcast all the time. But it's relevant again because I was thinking, because I watched this maybe a couple weeks ago. Episode eight is game six of the 1998 NBA Finals. It is supposed to be Michael Jordan's last shot before he retires, crosses over Byron Russell, jumper from 20 feet out, game winner. But more importantly, if you look into the stands, everyone is just fully present and fixated on Michael performing that act. Like there is, I mean, there are like the cameramen that are on the baseline with their big rigs capturing it, and there's like, you know, some camera uh cameras going off, but basically the audience there is fully present. This is not just a Coca-Dona problem, but like if you zoom in on Rachel Entrick's finish there, maybe like 95% of the people weren't quote unquote present. They had phones out or they were members of the media. No value judgment there, just a very interesting contrast and just different generations that we're in. Some would say it's amazing, some would say it's problematic, just interesting, you know?

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Oh, I agree. I will say I want to, and this is not, these are not negatives, these are just like observations that I think things we have to consider with the evolution of the sport. A huge positive, even though I feel like we are struggling with the presence piece, the amount of people in Heritage Square throughout the entire time, from Rachel to the last finisher was insane. I mean, there were people cheering and watching, like there was a real presence of the race. I feel like so. I went, I've been at Kocodona the last three years. I feel like three years ago, not the same, not nearly as many people, so much smaller. And now it's like people want to come and watch. And you can see that the effect is just much bigger in the town of Flagstaff.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I an argument in favor of the distribution, all this like look at where this, look at where Rachel's story was distributed to it. It was on, I think, Good Morning America, pardon the interruption, an ESPN program. I logged into Yahoo! Sports. I'm one of those boomers that still checks Yahoo Sports. And right there in the trending stories was Rachel Entrickin, you know? So I'm it's such a it's such an interesting debate and problem to try to solve because there's so many positives and so many negatives on both sides. All right, Norda is the official footwear partner of the show, and they're having a great week. Unless you have been living under a rock, you probably saw that their athlete, Rachel Entriken, just won the Coca-Coda 250 outright and set an overall new course record from start to finish. She was wearing Norda's new Model 055, which launches later this summer. Pretty cool to see that shoe contribute to such a significant historic performance at what is quickly becoming one of the most important and popular events on North American soil. Go check out all of Norda's products at NordaRun.com. Also, a great week for another one of our partners, Precision Fuel and Hydration. If you were watching the Coco Donna live stream, you saw their cool aid station setup at the Sedona checkpoint on the course. You also saw their products fueling the two frontrunners, Rachel Entriken and Killian Korth over multiple days. Pretty impressive to see this stuff work pretty much flawlessly in a multi-day setting. Go check out all of their stuff at precisionhydration.com and feel free to use code single track at checkout for 15% off your next order.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

The other to just give um some idea, so viewership on the commentating stream. So there were over 40,000 people who watched Rachel finish throughout that morning, like when um Caleb and I were on before Corinne and uh Chris went on. We were hitting over 25,000 that were tuning in watching. Like the numbers exponentially increase every year.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah. Uh we we said this in our recap episode with Brett and Aliah that 2026 Coca-Dona achieved such a level of popularity year over year, it actually for a while was competing with uh 2024 Western States numbers and then ultimately eclipsed them. So I think in North America, it's the second most popular live stream, comparing stream by streams, not just like the total week, but like if you take West uh Kokodona day three, stream seven, and you compare it to the equivalent finisher stream for states, it beats it by like 100,000. So two, so we're like it's just amazing that that the jump that Cocodona's made in popularity.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah, and I would still, I mean, I feel like we have theories of why I would still love to know more. It it's yeah, it's so interesting. It it seems so relatable in a way, and uh, it's like it's so unrelatable in so many other ways.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Is it crazy to throw out the possibility that we're gonna look back at 2026 as the year Coca Donna joined UTMB Western States and Hard Rock as the fourth event that like is on that level of like the most important ultra marathons across the world? Or is that too much of an exaggeration at this point?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

I think it's a very different race because I think of those I think of Coca Donna as yes, there's the sharp end, but it's the whole experience of it over an entire week. Whereas when I think about Western, when I think about UTMB hard rock, I think of the competition. Like the number one thing is competition. I feel like Coca Donna, it's more of like storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Huh. Do you think that the like with the numbers that that you guys generated this year? Do you feel like because of that level of attention pros are gonna see that as a place where you can make your career? Like they're seeing what uh Rachel has done, what Killian has done. Anyone who to some extent has built a career off this race, they're like, I want to go do that now. And it feels accessible.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I think it's an inter, yeah, I think it's an interesting question. Because I it's such a different race, you know what I mean? Where it's like, yeah, the question mark is can I think part of what makes Rachel and Killian extremely successful is, I mean, if you look at everyone behind them, they all had to sleep significantly. They could not get through the fatigue. And Killian and Rachel have mastered that in a way that is absolutely, I mean, unbelievable in many ways, like so impressive. But other runners, I mean, Stringbean had to sleep, Courtney had to sleep, Heather had to sleep, everyone else had to put in at least. I mean, Cody Paskin had to sleep as well. He said he slept like an hour and a half, and Rachel and Killian are on like less than 20 minutes. Yeah. So I feel like that is such an element of unlocking Coca-Dona in a way. So I am curious if it will attempt more. I think it's going to take a lot to get to the uh just absolute mastery that those two have placed over the 200-mile distance.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Mount to Coast, Mount to Coast has absolutely made this to Ben, to Ben. You talked to Ben.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

I went up to Ben and I said congratulations. Because I love to congratulate team managers when they absolutely stripe uh an event. And I'm like, Ben, congrats. You won, you know, your team won Kokodona.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

For how much longer? Because yeah, this for because Mount Decoast has done such a brilliant job at focusing on this event and building a team around it, for how much longer will they have a monopoly on that? Do you like for how much longer will the Hokas, the uh ones, et cetera, like when will this become an A-tier compensated event for the major shoe brands? Would you say? Like, is it happening next year?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Uh maybe. I would say possibly next year, probably in two years. Wow. It's still, I still don't think it quite has. I know it's gained a ton of popularity in Europe. I'm not sure it's quite there yet. And a lot of these brands are European based, you have to remember. So Mount DeCoast, yes, it is a Chinese company, but it has a lot of, I mean, I feel like in many ways it was born in the US. Um, and so I think you have to look at where where is the tradition of the odds, the Adidas, the Hokas, you know, right? They're they are European. And so I think there was a huge step in the recognition from European entities, but I do think that is going to take a little bit of time to come up with. But I would say if we were, this is a fun question. Who do you think, from a brand perspective, were the winners of Cocodona?

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Well, I think Mount Deco stole the show.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

They absolutely stole the show.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

I'm gonna give you another one too.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Is it is it an well, first let me guess. Is it is it a non-shoe brand?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

It's a non-shoe brand, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

I mean, uh, a couple things come to mind. I think John G did a fantastic job out there, but yeah, um, I was also gonna say watching the start line of that race, it felt like 60% of the start line was wearing an ultra-spire traverse pack.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Boom. Yep, they were. We were calling the finish, and it was at like every, it felt like if we were to take four runners, three of them had an ultra-aspire traverse pack, whether it was in the Sedona 125 or the Cocodona 250. I would say Mount Tacos and Ultra Aspire won Cocodona 250.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

And, you know, like they if you go back and look at their marketing strategy, UltraSpire said we are gonna be a multi-day focus.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

They're gonna be a 200-mile pack. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

They're gonna be the 200 mile pack. Uh, Mount Tacos is gonna be the 200-mile shoe and uh right place, right time as well. Cocodona pops.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Yeah. It's an incredible visibility for these brands. Incredible.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

So I just I yeah, it will, it's it's crazy that in 2026 we can at least have the conversation about brands possibly reconsidering this uh in terms of incentive structures on their contracts. And it's not absurd. It's not it's not absurd. It's not absurd to consider that.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

It's I mean, it is truly insane. Like that's that's what's mind-blowing to me is I was I've been thinking, I mean, obviously, about this a lot, but in five years, also the course has changed every single year. Signif like quite a bit. It's just fascinating when you think about the history of Western states, the history of UTMB. And obviously there's been course changes in UTMB as well, but I was like, this I mean, one year there was a fire year, the first year was super hot. They went a kind of a completely different way. Then they've reversed Eldon, you know, there's just all of these changes that are very fascinating to track. And it's like this is the level of popularity. Mind blowing. I know I'm like, have we reached the pinnacle of Kokodona? Have we already done it?

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Well, I'm gonna throw at least two. I I have one takeaway. It's it's also media related. I think for years there's been an ongoing debate in our sport about which discipline of trail has the best chance to resonate and create more fans of the sport in a general audience. And I think for the longest time it felt like the consensus was forming around Sub Ultra and Golden Trail was going to be this like prime entertainment product. It's easier on attention spans, stunning locations, density of competition, etc. I think because of their partnership with Warner Brothers, they are getting a ton of distribution, like well into the tens of millions. But especially and maybe it's recency bias, but I'm I'm getting the sense that like multi-day is gonna win out. I I think when the dust settles, it's gonna be these like expedition style journey runs with storytelling attached and like really interesting characters. That's we see it with Barkley, um The Spine, uh Coca Donna. Like these are the events that are transcending.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

There's something that is resonating to people, I think, because they have the live stream on at work, they're they just have it running in the background, they can kind of come in and out attention-wise. There's an engagement piece of the live chat. I think that makes a huge difference. And there's something that clicks in people's head, but they're like, these people have been running the entire work week. Something is resonating in that way that's getting to the general public in a way that's like you don't understand how hard it is to run an extremely technical knife edge ridge because they make it look so easy. It's like you're watching people during Coca-Dona that are truly, I mean, suffering in a way, it's like then they're still doing it the next day and the next day. It's yeah, it's wild.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

I'll add to that I'm a broad fan of, I'm sure you are too. I'm a broad fan of trail running. I don't care necessarily what I don't care. I love all of them. I'm gonna love Coca-Dona if one person. Watching it. And if it ends up being like Zagama, that's the race that you know becomes like representative of our whole sport. Amazing. But I but if I'm betting, if I'm a betting person, it seems like we're circling back to like the 19th century when these six-day races were uh generating massive prize purses, huge numbers of fans, and it was like more popular than baseball, soccer, etc.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah. I I think you're I agree. I mean, having witnessed it in person, it is it resonates. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Do you think that there are clear gender differences when we get into multi-day races? Like we had we got a we got an inbound email the other day. This was on Wednesday or Thursday. I'll leave the person's name off, but they basically just said, after Coca-Dona this year, should gender categories be removed? Question mark, no more men's overall and women's overall, just overall.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Okay, I actually had this thought experiment that I was gonna run past you as well. Is should there be bonuses differentiated between overall podiums and gender as well? Like, for example, and I yeah, I don't know. It's like, should a woman get more if they podium overall? Should they get less? Should it just be the same? On on contracts, currently, there's no gender difference. Like it you don't, it doesn't say anything about like overall podium versus male or female um in the binary that we have at this point. But I'm curious, like, should Rachel get more for winning overall? Should uh Aurora and I have gotten more for coming in second and third overall in the race?

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Because it's because it's more common for men to win the overall, should it be uh a clause that is mostly directed at women?

SPEAKER_01 24:05

That would be, I feel like, the only uh the only difference differentiation. Otherwise, I think it would stay pretty the same. But then again, it's like, does Killian get less because he got second? I don't know. It I'm I'm not I haven't come up with a a like conclusion on it. It was just a thought experiment was like, holy cow, and we're gonna get into this later. We are seeing this happen quite. I mean, it this is not new. Women have podiumed overall for many, many years. I mean, Jasmine Paris has done it, Courtney's done it, like many very strong female runners have podiumed. This is not new, but it does feel like it's growing in visibility, like the races are somewhat more visible. So I don't know. It's a question I would love to pose. I will probably pose to Kelly. Sorry, Kelly, and also to some team managers that I'm friends with be like, hey, have you ever thought about this? Should this be different? And like, should the awards be different? Should there be like an overall and then a mail and a yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I'm so I'm I'm really looking forward to getting some additional context for Rachel's performance. Leah had a great point on our uh immediate recap episode. Uh, she referenced Ann Tracen. So Anne Tracen ran such a fast time at Western States in 1994. It ended up staying a top 10 time on the women's side for, I think it was 20 years, she said. Like until about it was like 2021 or 22, that time was still on the top 10 fastest times ever run at Western States for women. And it made me think of, it made us think of Rachel's run here today. Like I think Leah made the point. I think that this time that Rachel ran at Coca-Dona will probably be a time that is would be like a solid podium time. Regardless of how well 200s evolve over the years, it's gonna be like a great time for at least 15 or 20 years. And then then the question for me is like, how how good is it overall, too? Like I know Killian has talked about like his goal coming in was 55 hours. I know in a lot of other races, typically there's like a, I think it's like a six to nine percent differential between men and women, but this was such a good run. And we've seen like w a lot of women just win these things. It's not uncommon for women to win these multi-day races outright. So that's I don't know. Just interesting.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

I I think that too. I'm also I I think one of the pieces of Coca-Dona this year was that yes, there was one kind of blip of bad weather for a couple hours, but it was about as perfect as it gets from a weather perspective in comparison. And that's nothing to that's just like it was like the perfect storm of everything coming together for I think a time that fast to be put down, and like will we ever see that again? I don't know. I mean, it was well just say it was almost a hundred degrees in Black Canyon City when I was driving back yesterday. So it's like and it was 90 degrees the day before they left. I bit pickup. It was just like, oh my gosh, how is the weather staying absolutely perfect for this situation? Like it was wild.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Amazing. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

One last thing, I know we've been talking about this for a while, uh, but one last thing I wanted to throw at you for the Coca-Dona. And this is this was just my perception. So if it was actually different, let me know. But uh this was my also my first year watching the live stream, and I noticed that unless you were the lead male or the lead female, probably due to resources, no one else got camera time. And it's interesting that when I racked my brain for like leaders and stuff for the most part, I remember Kevin Tedonio so vividly because he was leading the men's race for such a significant amount of time on day one, and then it became basically Killian versus Rachel. And I'm for anyone that didn't race this year, that had that live stream experience, I wonder like how hard people are going to take the pace out in future years, assuming the live stream doesn't quite evolve to more in-depth video-wise cover, like you know, Zach Cower in third or you know, um, Heather Jackson in fourth, stuff like that. How much how like vigorously people will compete for that like first place position at any given time during the race because of the nature of the live stream? Wonder if you have any thoughts there.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah, that's a great point. So it is a resource um distribution. I mean, also because the race is so spread out. I mean, you're talking about hours difference. You know, the Western states it's it could be minutes. And for Coca-Dona, just the the absolute magnitude of what they're trying to cover. So, really, there are not enough resources to show as much in depth like you're trying to cover the front of the field. And also, too, everything was happening so much faster than was expected. There was like, oh my gosh, we got to jump to the next one, we got to jump to the next one. Uh, so you know, I hope that there's an evolution. And that's also just a like, is there gonna be even more financial support behind it? Like, if we get even more financial support, there was the ability to cover more of the field. But absolutely, like, yeah, they had to stay at the sharp end. That's kind of and then they're able to show the rest of the field more after the finish, but it is very much just on the the sharp end. So I would love to see if we can get more resources to cover the entire field, but also like, yeah, if you want to make a name, take Kokodone out really hard and everyone will know you.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Just at least, at least hold till um, you know, maybe like middle of the morning, day two, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Uh yeah, run a great 150 miles, and then you can call it call it a day.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

And and shouts to Kevin Tedonio, who who genuinely made uh day one so fun to follow, super interesting. I I love those instances. We call it a random baller where it's like, um, I should know your name because obviously, in retrospect, the guy won Crown King 50K and turns out he has a pretty solid endurance career behind him. But I wasn't, I didn't know who he was coming in. And it was so fun to like scramble on the internet, be like, who is this Kevin Tedonio guy?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Oh, believe me, all the commentaries we were like, who is Kevin? And all of the chat was like, Who's Kevin? Who's Kevin? Um, but yeah, Corinne did a great job of digging up some information on him and being like, he's a San Diego firefighter and like he's done this. So yeah, it was fun.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

John G is the official apparel partner of the show. And uh look, I was watching the Coca-Dona live stream the past three days, saw a lot of their products out there in the field, one product in particular, their Sun Tracer Hoodie. I ended up picking up a few pairs of this uh yesterday. It's got UPF 50 sun protection, an ultralight feel, secure hood. It is great for both the heat of the day or if you need an extra layer at night. I think it's honestly genuinely like the perfect top for a desert ultra. Also, while we're here, congrats to John G athlete Meg Eckert, who finished third in this year's Women's Field at Kokodonna. She went under the old course record, finishing just over 63 hours. Amazing. Congrats, Meg. Go check out everything that John G's got at John G.com forward slash singletrack. Also, thanks to Raid Research, the official equipment partner of the show. I think I told you towards the end of last month, but they have a lot of product finally back in stock, including my favorite, their LF2L belt. This piece is trusted by many of the greats in the sport, including Anna Gibson, Anton Krupitchka, Des Linden. There's also some really interesting product that launches on the horizon for Raid. If you were following Marathon DeSablo last month, then you definitely saw Des Linden wearing a prototype LF-15 vest during that event. So stay tuned. In the meantime, go check out everything that they've got at raidresearch.com. Okay. Um, thank you for indulging me on 30 minutes of Cocodona. I we've we've got to promise the people some of the other news in the sport here, starting with Trans Vulcania results. Talk about another record-breaking race. Um mild and dry conditions this year, so different than last year. Um it made for fast times, but I think this exceeded most people's expectations. David Sinclair and Blondine Lirendell win in 632 and 743, respectively. Both are new course records by 20 and 19 minutes. The men's course record was 11 years old. The women's course record was only two years old, but it was a Ruth Croft record. Um, top six men and top two women, including Lucy Bartholomew, finished under those old course records. Um maybe if you want to talk about blending, I'll talk about David really quickly. Based out of Vermont, DNF to last year was a part of that group that just got caught up in terrible weather. He's coming off a win at the Canyon's 25k. He's on the Western State start list next month. Um sounded like he got here 10 days early to Trans Vulcania, recounted the course super well, more prepared. So um it was a day in the making. But again, to run 20 minutes under a Luis Alberto Hernando course record is is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Yeah, I mean, David also had the has the JFK 50 mile record. I mean, I actually grew up cross-country skiing with David Sinclair, he and my brother competed cross-country. I've known David, yeah, since high school. He's married to one of my friends, Izzy Caldwell, Caldwell, royalty of cross country skiing. Her sister is Sophie Caldwell, Olympic cross-country skier. Yeah. So goes back, David Sinclair. I texted, um, I was chatting with uh Abel, who's the team manager for Craft, and I was like, he was my pick. Never bet against David Sinclair. I mean, the dude is freaking fast. I mean, he came in second at CCC. He's incredible. And he he has an engine from years. I mean, he was an incredible cross-country skier in high school. He is a stud. Like David Sinclair is an absolute legend. Sorry, I was supposed to talk about Blandon, but like David, I think amazing intel.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

And actually, I'll say one more thing about David. I and I want to do this in future years where we create some uh rankings list for the most unfazed uh finish line looks post-elite result. And the two that were battling for number one last year for me was Killian Journey after his podium finish at Western. He was just prancing around the infield at the Placer High Track, like did not look like he had just run 100 miles, but then David Sinclair after JFK last year. He was just like sitting cross-legged in the on the side of the road, just like biting an apple. Like looked like he had not just run 508 and just obliterated a course record with like some of the most hollowed names in our sport. So yeah, he's he engine is, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

He's the real deal. Yeah. And then Blandon is as well. I mean, never bet against her. I I think those two were my picks, which I was kind of proud of. Like she took down the Diagonal Defoe uh race, she came in first. I don't think she had a course record, but I mean, just she when she shows up, I believe multi like multiple top ten finishes at you know the UTMB finals week. She's study I saw a video of her running, and I thought that it was either the start or the finish. I think it was like 50k in. She was hauling, I mean, look like sprinting. It was insane. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

So give us the uh what the Quicksilver news.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yes. So this is kind of again to go off of I'm gonna riff off this a little bit. Sylvia Abel, really strong skier in the NorCal area, just takes down Quicksilver 100K, which is in uh San Jose area. Very race with a lot of history. David Roach has done the 50K. A lot of great athletes have stood at the start line of Quicksilver. It's a great kind of earlier season, 100k, 50k, very runnable terrain. Sylvie uh takes Sylvie Sylvia. I'm so sorry, takes down his course record by a lot and also wins it outright. So again, we're seeing I'm just gonna give so that just happened, overall win at Quicksilver, Rachel taking the overall win at Cocodona at I believe Grand Venue two weeks ago. Polish athlete women take second overall in 100 mile. We have um Aurora, myself placing the podium, Canyon's 100. So here's my prediction is we're gonna see a woman in the podium of hard rock overall. I think the competition levels there, and I think we're gonna see a woman in either I believe the top 10 overall of UTMB. I'm not sure about Western states. It's very possible. I think it's very possible, but I do believe in a top 10 overall at UTMB as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Does that also mean I mean I'm just seeing where times are trending at HB. Does that mean that we're probably looking at a new women's course record at UTMB this year?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yes, I think with the depth I think it's very possible. Because I think Ruth Croft is gonna come back and try to because our course was modified last year because of the the pyramids weren't there, right? The pyramids were not there, so I feel like she wants to come back and do it again.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah. And I'm gonna say uh women in the top five of Diagonal Dufoe as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

How about women in the top ten at Western?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

I think that's possible.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

I mean, Courtney did it a few years back.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Did Katie when she went close? I'd have to look that up. Yeah. Okay. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

That's my my excitement piece.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Well, I'll bring in Western some just this is wildly miscellaneous Western States News, but you know, we're less than we're like seven weeks out, so it's just fun to like give little nuggets of info. If you follow the athletes on Strava, I think you'll notice a lot of Hoka, Terex, and North Face athletes in Flag over the next few weeks doing training camps. Uh Flag sort of becomes one of the major epicenters of training for this race. It's obviously created so many different champions. We've seen Katie Scheid go there. Abby Hall's obviously based out of their gym. List goes on. Um, so just stay tuned. It'll be fun to follow that on Strabo the next few weeks. Shout out to the men's field. Please, if you're there and fly, keep it together. Do not kill yourself before race day. We want to see you on the start line.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Don't do it. Don't overdo it. Sit on your hands. Chill.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Know that you're already a super talented runner. You do not need to go to blows with your fellow talented teammates. Just get the adaptation, super compensate, get out of there. Um, Ida Nielsen, sadly, for I don't know the background here, but she no longer appears on the Western State start list. Um, if we get more info, we will reload that in a future news episode. And then the last thing here, Alyssa, I'll say quickly, this is a bit of a deep cut, you have to be a track and field fan, but Rory Linkletter, who is one of the best road marathoners in the world, I think he has the Canadian record. He's just run 206 at London, I think it was, or Boston. Um, he was just on the Coffee Club pod, which is the OAC podcast, basically. And uh he was openly pitching himself as a uh for the one of the pacer jobs for Molly Seidel at Western this year. And then he went further saying he has interest in moving the trail at some point. After that episode, posts on X says, quote, what's the latest in one's career someone could switch from Rhodes to the Trail Ultras, Ask Me for Myself, end quote. And this got me super excited. Uh Rory went to BYU uh, you know, during like the Conor Mance era and stuff like that. Um, super talented. He has a couple key segment crowns here in the Wasatch. He's always been trail cares from what I could tell. But um yeah, I'm calling this sort of like the Molly Sidal effect in in some ways. Like obviously people are paying attention to her move the trail, they're seeing how cool it is, they're getting expired, inspired, I should say. So I'm I'm saying like in addition to Rory, watch this space, and I think things are gonna get super interesting post 2028 Olympic cycle.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

I like that call. So I like it.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

A lot of miscellaneous stuff there, the training camps, no more Ida, unfortunately, and then Rory being super western states and trail ultra curious. Okay. Um I know we're like way over here. Maybe we let's just really quickly talk about Zagama and then let's do our content a little bit. Is that cool?

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Yeah. Do you wanna just shout out like other events quickly? That'll take me in five seconds. I like I just like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Yeah, yeah, I do too. Okay, I I did write this down. Um, and feel free to add in any that are also happening, but there's actually quite a few, in my opinion, cool events happening this coming week.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Um, I like those.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Cruel Jewel, hard rock qualifier over in Georgia. I have always wanted to do this race. Have you done it?

SPEAKER_01 41:37

I wish that I could get like a dollar for every single person who's told me I should run Cruel Jewel.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

I think Sarah Ostazuki's run it, I want to say.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

And she's won. I believe she has the course record. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

So she it kind of came on my radar because of her. And yeah. So Cruel Jewel, uh, Tilly McBurn, Daybreak event. I've heard that's classic. Uh Massa Nutton 100, another like legendary 100-mile race in Virginia, and then also throw out uh Roth Rock by Utembi. It's Utembi's newest event in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania. I have a friend, shout out Finn Kind, who paced me and crewed me at Kokodona last year. I believe he might be on the 50k start line. And the Finn has wheels. So if he is there, um watch this space. I think uh you could be a podium overall win contender.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

Another Finn with wheels.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

This one has even faster wheels.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

I also love you have Quest for the Crest. I that race also looks amazing. 50K, very tough. I know Sabrina Stanley and Avery Collins have frequented that race in the past. Yeah. Pretty gnarly East Coast race.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Yeah, it's uh it I've always considered it to be like the speedgoat of the East, similar vert profile. Um yeah, 50k, 11,000, I think, feet of climbing, something like that. Um yeah. Okay. Any others?

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Uh I think I think that's I think this wasn't Snowdonia happening, UTS. Yes, I think, yeah. Yeah, so see how that goes.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

I know. Okay, yeah, we've talked about that a bunch. Um thanks for bringing that one up. Jeff Colt is running the ADK, friend contributor to the podcast on Athlete. Um I think Tom Evans was supposed to be in that field too. He's I think he pulled out. Um yeah, I should have had those start lines ready. I am I do not. I just know Jeff is running.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

I will say also Ultra Trail Australia is happening as well this weekend. We're gonna have a lot next week. And just a a on shout out. Kasha Dombrowski, one of my teammates, she will be on the start line. She's very fast because I To see that an Adrian McDonald of Leadville Fame, he's also lining up at Ultratrill Australia.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

And actually, I was just on a podcast uh called Peak Pursuits, which is an Australian-based show, and I've been following them for a bit, and they are doing a bunch of preview content for 100K, 50K, 22K there at UTA. So go check those out. James is the host, he does a fantastic job. So for anyone that wants in-depth content there, yeah. Um okay, really quickly on Zagama, one of the most iconic races on the trail running calendar across the world. I you you sometimes see pretty massive swings in times there. It really sort of depends on the conditions on the ground. If it's dry, um, you'll typically see the men, you know, winning, podiuming around 345. For the women, it's like 435. Um, but you can kind of add 10 to 15 minutes on each of those times if it's muddy, if it's coming off rain, stuff like that. Um men's side Killian Journey is back. Uh he's won this race 11 times, dating back to 2007. I think he's 11 for 12. Um, joined by, I mean, it's a deep field couple that come to 93. Remy Bonnet, Elusine are there. Taylor Stack is the highest ranking male on the men's side. And then women's side, Tovey, Yudith White, Sarah Alonzo, Lauren Gregory is there. Uh female American representation. Uh, and then actually, shout out to my friend Mike McBonagal, who I think he's going over there on an ACG work trip, but he'll be on the ground uh shooting photo. So follow at shit in the woods on Instagram for uh for Zagama updates.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Best handle. I know. Finn, what you got for content of the week?

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Okay. I really want people to go read this article because it's just excellent. And so I'm gonna just broadly summarize it. Uh co-authors, Michael Crawley, who's a fantastic author in the running space, go check out his website. He's written quite a few books in the running space that are excellent. And then actually, someone that we recently just had on the podcast, Jeff Burns, um, who is an expert on uh running shoes, running biomechanics, et cetera. But basically, they jointly authored this article on Aeon, that's filled A E-I-O-N, uh, comparing and contrasting how the Norwegians and Ethiopians train. And again, I am like broadly summarizing here, go read it. But essentially the Norwegians, they're all like lactate meters, GPS, individualized data. The Ethiopians, by contrast, like their training breakthroughs come from running in packs. They sort of have this concept of like quote unquote sharing energy as a group. And they have this interesting philosophy where like they basically treat running alone the way you would treat eating alone. Um, like they just see it as like very weird, very antisocial way to approach the sport. Like everything they do is just group-oriented. And the authors point out that both camps are trying to achieve the same thing, which is protecting the athletes from overtraining. And the Ethiopians try to achieve it in this like very pro-social, group-oriented manner. The Norwegians, they're like, they want just all the data and to make decisions based off that. Um and it's just, it's, it's really interesting. Uh I kind of finished the article like thinking like the Ethiopian way is the way. And I think leading into it, I was always like kind of more like data biased. And I've always just wanted more from like an UR ring or whoopstrap or, you know, my Sunto watch, stuff like that. And um, I don't know, maybe it's just like the bias of having read that and maybe felt like feeling like I was like kind of steered in the direction of, you know, like the group. But uh I would encourage everyone to go read it. Um, the website is aeon.co, aeon.co, and the title of the article is What Ethiopian Running Says About the Limits of Human Ability. And I think also the authors were trying to dispel the notion that the Ethiopians are good just because of genetics. Um, and they would argue that actually a lot of the benefits that manifest themselves like in a marathon racing environment come from this like group training philosophy. So that's mine.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

I am absolutely going to be reading that.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Really good.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

As soon as I get off here, I will read it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

I actually read it thinking you would really enjoy it. It's it it's it's an illicit type article.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Okay. Yeah, because I am very much a balanced data with feelings. Um so that's one of the things actually I work on with my athletes. It's like, okay, let's let's think about the data, but let's think about how you feel and how we work together, how we move as humans in in the emotional side of things. Yeah. I'm a I'm an emotion-driven person, so I tend to lean into that a little bit more.

unknown 49:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Yeah. Oh, I can't wait. Really good. And this whole concept of like sharing energy uh is really cool. Um and also like just the way they manage the group dynamics too, because they also believe that like some athletes within the group can like take some of that shared energy more so than others, and it creates imbalances and competitive advantages and stuff. So it's very highly recommend go reading it. It's really good.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

I absolutely will.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

All right. My two things, I'm actually there are things that have are brands, emerging brands, that I saw at Coca-Dona and also have just kind of come on my radar in the past two weeks. So number one, I don't know if it's Cilo or Silo, but Cielo, thank you. Saw a bunch of drop bags, Cielo, S-I-L-O, at Coca-Dona. I was like, these are great. They stand out, they're colorful, they're waterproof. And also they're making a crew drop bag, place for shoes, place for everything to be really organized. And I can tell you the number one tip I have for crews is have your things organized in a bag. Don't just have a bag with a bunch of stuff dropped in it, whether it's Ziploc bags, et cetera. But this is, I'm really excited about this for being used in uh ultras, especially multi-day. I've got to correct myself.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

I said I said Cielo as in the hat company. I think I got that totally wrong.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Oh, yeah. It's just silo, S-I-L-O. Yeah, you said that, and I was like, wow, that's a lot fancier than there is Cielo. Yes. But this is silo. Okay. But they have a crew drop bag, they have dried bags, shoe bags. I'm pretty, I was like, this is cool stuff. Uh, and then the other one is called type two gear, which you might actually have heard of because they are in the Salt Lake area, but they are coming out with their logo, it is just a smiley face. It's really cute. And a coat. Yeah. So one thing I find really fascinating is they have come up with a carbon fiber pole that is not prohibitively expensive and is very versatile and pretty sturdy. I actually just was holding uh I my friend has the polls and I was checking them out. You know, they're not a they're not the highest end Lecky, absolutely not. Um, but they're a really great option for someone who wants to invest in polls but doesn't want to drop$200. They're light, they're sturdy. So I was really excited about that. They do have other products, but I think the poles are very interesting. So yeah, I'm on the site now.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

This is an amazing find. They've got soft flasks, trail running hat, the poles you mentioned, bandanas, and very distinct branding, too.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Yeah. I like it. It's so simple.

unknown 52:04

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

And they're based out of Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

So I gotta meet these guys, Sean and Chris. Okay. And you saw this out of Kokodona.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

So actually, type two, um, I just had a friend run his first hundred at San Diego 100. He's good friends with type two, and then, and so he told me about them. And then at Coca-Dona, I was running with Gus Gibbs, legend, got to know Gus a little bit more, and Gus had one of their soft flakes. And I was like, oh my gosh, Gus, like, what an odd coincidence that you know them as well. So yeah, gotta shout them out. I want to see what they do. The polls are really intriguing to me.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

This is amazing. Okay, great finds. I'll check out Silo as well. Well, uh, Alyssa, thanks so much for for going long. I guess, you know, in Kokodona style, this is uh the uh the the single track news version of a of a multi day recording.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Yeah, I feel like we snuck quite a bit of Kokodona chat in there.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

No apologies. That was awesome. Thank you so much. See you next week.