Zach Miller | 2026 Western States 100 Pre-Race Interview

Zach Miller is one of the greatest, most entertaining, and most thoughtful runners of his generation. It's a treat to have him in the studio ahead of Western States, a race he has patiently waited to run for over a decade.

Miller is coming off a memorable 2nd place golden ticket performance at the Canyons 100K, a race where he reunited with Hayden Hawks for yet another classic duel in their storied rivalry, which dates back to the 2016 TNF 50 in San Francisco.

We also catch up with Zach on other topics, including his regular IRunFar column, his trusty North Face hat, and his reflections on this stage of his career as a professional ultra-trail runner.

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• Raide - Making equipment for efficient human-powered movement in the mountains 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Norda is the official footwear partner of our 2026 Western States 100 coverage. All the rage this summer is the imminent release of their new model, the 055, the shoe that Rachel Enterkin wore start to finish en route to her course record victory at the Cocodona 250 earlier this year. Go check it out at NordaRun.com and make sure you are subscribed to their mailing list to get exclusive early access to the shoe. I've put a bunch of training miles in it. It's the real deal. We're back with another interview supporting our coverage of the 2026 Western States 100, joined by friends, co-hosts Leah Yingling, Brad Hornig, and we are honored to have the great Zach Miller in studio. Zach, how are you doing this Wednesday afternoon? I'm good. How about you? Honestly, like I still got energy in the tank. And I think part of it is, I'll say this, part of it is year in, year out, we try to keep the rotation novel. And I know we've talked on the podcast before, but this is the first time we've had you in studio for Western.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah. And thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

I want to dive right into it. I'm gonna read a quote to you. And this actually, you said this on your iRun Far column before Canyon's. You said, quote, ultra running has really evolved in recent years. And to be honest, I wasn't really sure if I had it in me to keep pace with the current state of the sport at this type of race. You proved you still had it at Canyons. Is does that still weigh on you heading into Western states?

SPEAKER_04 1:31

I mean, I don't know. I don't you mean that? I'm not sure if I've got that kind of speed to keep up, that sort of thing. Um I I don't think it weighs on me as it doesn't weigh on me as much as it did going into Canyons. I mean, this for one this race is almost twice as long, so that kind of helps in a way. It's still a very fast race, obviously. Um but um no, I mean maybe a little bit, but not as much as Canyons, because Canyons it had really been like had kind of been a minute since I had done that style of race. So Canyons was a good confidence boost. Um But again, there's plenty of guys here that weren't there, so you know I kind of only raced the guys that were there, so you know, maybe I get my clock cleaned here. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Did did you go into Canyons looking for that kind of sense of uh like what am I looking what's the word I'm looking for? Like uh like confirmation that validation yeah that that the road to western states was the one that you should be doing.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Uh I mean I think I just went in Canyons just kind of like I'm just gonna give it a go and see what happens. I mean, I think that was kind of my my thing there. Like it was just kind of like a good challenge. Um yeah, I mean I certainly had my uncertainties about where I stood and like the state of things, but um yeah, I I d there wasn't this like the I don't know though, it wasn't like I didn't have like uh my whole year rides on making into western states, you know. It was more just sort of like yeah, it would be good to try to qualify, try to get a golden ticket, let's see if I can do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Did you surprise yourself at all with your performance at Canyons? Most of the reason I'm asking is we have never on this podcast been raked through the coals as much as we were.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

You guys are looking this is the scene of the crime.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

This is the scene of the crime. We have never been raked as much as we were in our pre-race prediction.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

I mean, I mean for one, like I don't I like there are no hard feelings from me. I didn't make you through the calls. Like I don't even know if I'd have picked myself before canyons. But I mean, I say that, like I'm still going in, like trying to win the thing. Like, I just because I might be like, yeah, I'm not sure I can win this thing doesn't mean there's not a piece of me that's like, oh, but you could and you're gonna try, you know, because that's kind of how I always am. Like, you know, like you could and you're gonna definitely try. Like, you count yourself in the hunt, you're just not like, oh, I'm like a shoe-in for the win.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Um, so uh yeah, no, I like I'm not even sure what what was the Was that a surprising result for you, or was that fully what you thought?

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Um it was it was really nice. Um I don't know, like it it maybe in some way there there were like maybe bits of surprise there, but I think cuz I had kind of like done that type of thing before, it was like it makes it easier to believe that it could happen. So it's not like a complete shock. It's not like when I won like when I won JFK 50 and I was like in 2013 and I was like no one knew who I was, and I was like, what the heck just happened? Like that was surprising. This was more maybe more just like validating of like, oh, okay, like I can do this.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Um, so yeah, I guess that's kind of how I describe it.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

How is uh how is the turnaround after Canyons, you know, from a recovery standpoint leading into the Western States training block?

SPEAKER_04 5:35

Uh yeah, I mean it's like it was nine-week gap, so that's like pretty short. Um, you know, especially like I usually try to lay out a fairly like I don't know, uh thoughtful schedule that allows for like recovery and then like kind of re-rebuild. Like some people have this like training method where they just like train and then they just kind of ride that fitness through several races. Like they're like, well, I'm already fit, so now I'll just like recover and kind of bounce to the next one and recover and bounce to the next one. That's never really been me. I've been like, well, let's train and then let's rest and then let's like rebuild. Like I really like training, so I don't mind doing that. Um, where nine weeks for me was kind of like um, yeah, maybe it's not insanely short, but it's not long either. It's kind of like you have enough time to do it, but you don't have any time for hiccups.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Uh so yeah, the first like bit was like walking on eggshells, like trying to get from through like the the two weeks of like mellow training back into like regular training without anything going uh awry. And that was like nerve-wracking. Um, because you know, there was like, oh my like my like at first things felt pretty good, and then there were like some days where it's like, oh my knee that is like my bad knee feels bad, and then like I don't know, maybe my Achilles feels bad, or you know, so I had like some days of that, but no, I ended up somehow seemed to have threaded the needle, and then after that, um the dangerous thing is you're really fit, so you can kind of like be aggressive if you want, which is like kind of to be careful, maybe. But I did kind of like a quick rampant volume and then did like a a couple of weak weeks and then kind of came back down to some like more focused, maybe like higher intensity weeks or so. Um, but yeah, overall it went pretty it went quite smooth. Um so yeah, I was pleased with it.

SPEAKER_05 7:42

I'm only gonna recite quotes too in this conversation. There's uh this is this is because again, I'm a I'm a I'm a dedicated reader of the column. You you stole this quote from Jim. You said waiting for the right time is a part of the art.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 7:56

For you, does that apply more to race selection or strategy and race?

SPEAKER_04 8:01

Uh race selection or strategy within the race itself. Uh I think it applies to both. I when Jim said that in he it was something he wrote on Instagram, I believe he was referring to like race selection, deciding like when to go out there and race and you know, uh put your chips on the line. Um but I think it could be applied to either. I think what I was writing about and what he was writing about was that like uh it it's really important in like picking your in your races. Like I basically my whole career I feel like I've watched people do things and I'm like half the battle is just playing your cards at the right time, like at the right race. Not like within the race, that is an element too, but like at the right race. Because like so many people they like they go out and they like and I get it, like it it's hard to hold back or like you have FOMO or whatever, but like people go out and they're like they run a race, they have a bad race, they're like, oh, but I like DNF'd or like I ran really slow the last 30, so I'm just gonna like use the fitness and go race again in like a month. And I'm just like maybe some people can do that, but I've always been like, man, I just don't think that works very well. It's like you gotta pick pick your back, or people who are injured and they're like, Oh, I've just kind of like limped through this, you know. I think you just kind of gotta like set, I'm a big believer in setting yourself up for success, and I don't necessarily always do it. And and on on the other side of that, what I was writing about was like Mason Copy had had the opposite experience where he didn't have these ideal ideal setups, and he and he went off to Boston Marathon and like crushed the thing, you know, and got Olympic trials time and won the open division, you know. So so there are also those moments that I came off surgery years ago with my haglens, jumped in my favorite local race, wasn't sure what I was gonna do, and almost got my course record, you know. So like I I think it's again, like I I have a strong believer that the world's not very black and white. Like there's general themes and things, but um you gotta like I do think it's good to set yourself up, set yourself up for success and pick your battles wisely, but don't become like so perfectionistic with it that you're like never racing because you're always waiting for the perfect moment. Because some of the best races do happen when it's not like quite perfect, but like you jump, jump in anyway. So it's like somewhere in that, like there's sort of like a center of the Venn diagram where sometimes the magic happens and you have to like leave yourself open open to that at least a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Do you think you have a race that's an example of that where it wasn't necessarily your perfect scenario, but you came out with a pretty perfect result?

SPEAKER_04 10:56

Um, I mean, I think like that was kind of my uh the first race that came to mind was like that was kind of like my JFK in 2013. Like, one, I didn't really know what I was doing. Uh like I was like talk about like people being dialed these days. It was like I was just like, I don't know, just like training and running, and like I I wasn't very I wasn't very dialed, and I I went and raced like bootlegger 50k, then it was the national championships that year in Nevada. Like, so I drove my car from Pennsylvania to Nevada, ran bootlegger, finished sixth, was like maybe I'm not very good at this, drove all the way back to the East Coast, and like JFK I think was like two or three weeks after bootlegger, and now I'm like I wouldn't race all out in a 50k like two or three weeks before my primary 50 miler. Um but that's what I did, and JFK went about as perfect as it could have gone. So and that was again a race I almost didn't jump in, but I was like, nobody knows who I am. Like, what's it matter? Like, I'll just like I gotta blow up and die, I'll jump back on the cruise ship because that's where I was working. I was like, nobody will like I'll literally like leave the country and like I can just hide.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Do you think being pretty strategic with uh races on your calendar has led to what has been such a long professional career?

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Yeah, you know, I don't I don't know, it's always hard because like you're like as an individual, you're kind of always an N of one, right? Like you do things yourself, but it's like you don't clone yourself and create like a statistically significant group size or whatever, and then do a stud like you just do what you do and then you get those results. So it's hard to like say definitively. Uh but like I think when I started running um like way back after JFK, I remember I like sat down with some guys that night, like Mike Spinley, the race director, I think it was Howard Nippert, um, who was like uh US, I think he ran on like the US hundred K road team back in the day. And he had given me this advice who was like of like not running more than like I think like two or three or maybe two races a year that were like marathon or longer, which is like a pretty conservative like view like recommendation in this day and age.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Especially what? Especially then.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

Yeah, yeah. So and I mean that but it totally made sense from like a road running marathon perspective. Yeah, that's a marathon. It was like that's what they did. It was like you these guys show up at like Boston and like one other race, and that's like their whole year. Yeah. Um, and now I think that's like changed a bit, but um, yeah, so like from the get-go, I took that advice and I kind of I essentially applied it. And I I took it to like three. I would let my self race like three big ultras or like three ultras a year. So basically a marathon or longer, uh, I would race three races a year. And and yeah, my intent was that I that I would help myself not burn out and have a long career and be able to have good races at each of those three races. And it seemed to work. I mean, but now that I'm older, I like my body is also different and it has a lot more lifetime miles in it. And now I'm like, I'm kind of like, I think you can maybe do more than that. But I guess like at that time, I didn't necessarily feel like that. I didn't necessarily feel that strength. Like I'd be trashed after a 50-mile race, and I'd let myself recover and then retrain for the next one. So I think at the time it was probably good ad good advice. Uh could I have found success another way? Maybe. But uh, yeah, it at least has it was like a conscious decision that I made, and it does seem like it has served me well.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

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SPEAKER_01 16:15

Do you think 2013 JFK champ Zach Miller would anticipate that 13 years down the road you'd be running your first Western states?

SPEAKER_04 16:28

I don't think I had hardly a clue like what was gonna happen like back then. Like I was shocked when JFK happened, and then like for all I knew, I was like a one-hit wonder, you know. Like, you know, I really didn't like like I wanted to pursue it, but it was like, I don't know, like what the next race I did after that was like Sonoma. It was kind of like, can I do this again? Like there was some question marks there. So your career hasn't been calculated. Yeah, I'll tell you exactly when it's gonna end. No. No, I think it was just it was just something that I loved to do. And it was like, I want to do this. I've never really had I've never really had much of a desire to see it stop. So I've just always been trying to keep it going. So from a young age, it was like, yeah, I want to have a long career. And now that like I'm at this stage, I'm like, yeah, I still want my career to keep going. So um and like I don't take that for granted, but like I yeah, I just like I don't know. I I haven't stopped having fun, so I try to try to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Was there a time in the last 13 years that you wanted to be here at Western States, or is this the first time that you're truly like ready and happy and feeling like your best self to be here on the start line?

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Yeah, I mean, uh people would ask me over the years, like if I wanted like they'll be like, Oh, do you want to run Western States? And I'd be like, Well, yeah, I'd like to. Like it's one of the big races and I'd like to run it. Um, but it wasn't like the race I was dying to do, I guess. Um I haven't through my career, I haven't felt that like heat was my strength. So it was also like and I also really love running in the mountains. So like we start in the mountains here, but like it's not exactly regarded as a mountain hundred. Um, so I think it was like, well, the mountains sound like more fun, and and like I sort of seem to crumble in the heat. So like it's like I like I don't know, it it doesn't and you know, speaking of setting yourself up for success, it didn't necessarily seem to make a lot of sense. Um and I and largely I just got distracted by other things. So yeah, but there's been a desire to do it, just not like as strong of a desire as like going to hard rock or going to UTMB or um, you know, I guess like some of the other things I've focused on. So um, but yeah, this year, I don't know. Like I just like I'm finding it fun to like get out of my box a little and just like try different stuff. I've really enjoyed how this has made me train differently. Like that's been one, really fun, and two, just feels really good as an athlete. Uh like as a runner. I just feel like I mean I it may seem counterintuitive, but like I am like I am hoping to like I mean my focus first is to get through this one, but if I can get through this well, um I I do have hopes of cashing in on my UTMB ticket and going there next. And honestly, like I don't know, maybe this isn't a good, maybe this training won't maybe I'll do that and I'll be like, yeah, actually that Western States training didn't work very well for UTM. But I have this part of me that's like actually I think maybe this UTM this Western training block has been one of the best things for me, even like to go to UTMB. Like uh because basically it made me work on like my weaknesses and stuff. It made me train different. And I think it's just like it's good to mix things up and and do focus on different things.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, did it did it feel like you were getting a little bit like I don't know if they call it complacent in the mountains and you know, uh forced a change.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

I don't know if I was getting complacent as I was like I was just like focused on like a different style of training and a different style, you know, like I'm doing like you know, I'm I'm doing like a 4,000 foot climb an effort for a workout, you know, or like I'm doing like a you know, like a lot of just like I'm just doing like a lot of uphill stuff and like I and like the average pace of a training week is like not very high, you know. So I think this took me back to more like kind of pure running, kind of back to more like stuff I would have done in college. Um and that just felt very good. Like again, the jury is out, right? Like I don't know what it I mean, I know what it became at Canyons, I don't know what it becomes at Western, and if I would run UTMB, I don't know what it becomes there. But I know that like as a runner, it just feels like it's been like it's I don't know, it feels like has been a good development from like a running and endurance standpoint.

SPEAKER_05 21:32

Is it fair to characterize you as someone who doesn't totally embrace the scientific side of the sport?

SPEAKER_04 21:38

Yeah, I think I'm I'm like I'm con I'm like a walking contradiction, like I or a running contradiction. Like I like I studied engineering in school and like I I I acknowledge that science is real, like that it exists, you know. Like, you know, if I throw this microphone at you, like it will fall. Like, you know. gravity exists but like I I think I'm just kind of like a meld of like no I'm not like anti I'm not like anti science but like I think I'm kind of like a across a c a hybrid of like science and maybe kind of like art like uh it's just like one I do this because I enjoy doing it so I want the work that I do to be something that I enjoy on the other hand like I am still like like kind of like do enjoy like cranking you know interval workouts around the same asphalt loop around the river and bend over and over every Wednesday you know like and I do find the science interesting you know and I will get in the sauna and I will sit in the hot tub and I will like heat train and I will I will talk to my wife for hours and hours about like uh you know the science of like nutrition and things and I will go on runs with my buddy Jeff who's a physiologist at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs and ask him a question and then just listen to him talk for like the next hour um you know about human physiology. And that's all interesting, you know, and I'll try to maybe take bits and pieces of it and apply it. But I'll also like go out there and like do something because it's fun or like I'll do my reps on this like climb outdoors as opposed to on a treadmill where it's super controlled. Like I have an aversion to getting on the treadmill like I have a bit of an aversion to being too much of a lab rat but I also appreciate lab rats you know like like like my buddy uh Chris Jones and I were going back he was texting me pictures of Tom Evans running downhill on that treadmill with all those weights and his uh and we were like joking I was like always misses an altitude mask and he's like oh he's got it hanging on the side of the treadmill and it's like oh he's it no he's got that too and and we were like kind of like having a laugh at it but at the same time we were both fully acknowledging we're like but seriously I I'm totally okay with this and like I appreciate what he's doing like the creativity the side like it yeah yeah so I like I kind of just like live in both both worlds I guess.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Do you think well I guess does the ratio of like art and science change at all from the race that you're training for like something super mountainous or something more runnable or do you keep do you try and keep the similar balance all the time?

SPEAKER_04 24:43

I mean I don't really have like a dialed in ratio that I should shoot. Shoot for like I I think I more just like I don't know like maybe just like take general concepts like of training uh and try to apply that apply them and then I and try to find maybe like a way to do it that's like kind of fun. I think like the more bizarre of the race you get the more freedom you feel to like maybe go more on like the non-traditional artistic side of it versus something that's very dialed uh or like that's you know maybe like more so I don't know like if you were training for like Barclay or you were training for like I don't know maybe even hard rock because you're like how many studies are done on races that occur at like an average altitude of 11,000 feet where a lot of it is hike. It just sort of seems like how much do we actually know about this? It seems like there's a lot that we might not know and the more it feels like there's a lot we don't know it feels like the more there could be benefit from playing around on the fringes in things that you know people haven't figured out. Where the stuff that's dialed is like well if you're running around on a fast marathon we've kind of figured out how to do that. So maybe you stick to the book a little more I don't want to be too dramatic.

SPEAKER_05 26:15

And I guess this is like a multipart question but yes you do. Yeah I guess I do actually everybody loves the drama. Is there an existential threat here?

SPEAKER_04 26:27

Do you see yourself as a dying breed in the sport like your type of runner I hope I'm not I hope we always have a weirdo out there trying strange stuff like and I and not that I'm not even gonna say the king of it like there's probably people out there doing it better than me. Um I mean I think the sport it's a little hard right because a lot of I think these days what we gather like love it or not comes from the internet and what we see portrayed on the internet and what we sort of portrayed on the internet isn't always like I don't know is not always very accurate. Like I I brought this up there and no knock to Divo uh but I brought this I was talking kind of about this type of thing the other day with someone I was like I was like yeah like sometimes you go to a race and you're like you're like like you watch like free trail or something online the coverage of some race and you're like man it just looks so cool and so awesome and it looks like so much like intensity and I'm like and then I went to a race and they were there and I'm like yeah I didn't really feel like that like they didn't like took that picture very strategically like they showed the 20 person crowd that was at the finish line you know like um and again like what Debo's doing in the sport is great. But like I think that's just an example and like even if like say maybe he's not doing that a ton or maybe he is whatever uh it's just that like sometimes like we just really frame things on the internet to look a certain way to look very exciting or to look very hyped up or to look very professional very polished. And sometimes in reality that's not like it's not like to the level that it looks like. So I think like to bring it back to your question like I think we see a lot of people right now and we're like oh it looks like everybody is so dialed and everybody is so scientific and everybody is like training so seriously and has a coach and has a nutritionist and has a uh sports psychologist and they're all doing these things and it feels like incredibly dialed you know and and so it can feel like the sport is going that way. But I think there's still a lot of us out there that like aren't doing hardly any of those things. You know whether they're elitists like elite runners or they're like back of the packers or mid-packers there's plenty of people out there I think maybe still just kind of doing it the way that like you're referring to so that it's like maybe not a dying breed but maybe perceived as a dying breed. But that perception can drive the direction it goes and so maybe the breed does die. I don't know maybe just everybody gets all caught up and you know goes that that direction with it you know but I don't know I think we just have to be careful with like how we perceive it first how like how it actually is like is it dying or is it just that's just what we see on the internet all the time. Like I trained with Hannah Algood a little bit sort of well we ran like the same loop in Pueblo in the heat one day and she was telling me about run and I'm like I watch Hannah's Hannah's like Instagram and I'm like yeah it looks pretty dialed and professional. And then she's telling me she's like yeah last time I came down here for this run I was a mess. She's like I like ran too late I had Jimmy Johns and then I'll go to the bathroom three times and then like I was getting too hot and I ran out of water and my vest wasn't working and I'm like we don't see any of that online like sounds like a hot mess you know and she was admitted she's like it she was basically like yeah it was a hot mess. Um but like that's the stuff we don't like always see so yeah. Do you ever wish that there was more mystery like leading up to races and stuff like do you ever do you ever wish you could have run in an era where there was that mystery of like you have no idea what anyone's doing until the gun goes off then you see like oh these people actually tried uh well that was kind of when I lived on the ships like I mean living on a ship is weird like we're just floating around in the ocean and you get internet but you had to pay for it and like on these cards and then it's like super slow and I was a cheapskate and I wasn't really on social media back in those days except for Facebook and like yeah I loved that actually like I guess so I guess if you're asking could we go back to that I'd be like yeah sign me up. Those days were amazing. Like uh not that there aren't good things from the state we live in. It's fun to see what your friends are doing and like encourage each other and whatnot but like yeah I loved that I was like because I can get in my head a bit and like you know get worried about what other people are doing and I was just like I go on this ship and float around the ocean and just train like listen to my body and train and then when I get off I just like race people and I have pretty much no clue what they've been doing. You know? Because like if I knew what they'd be doing it'd probably make me nervous. Yeah. But um yeah so I I loved that mystery when I had it um yeah in some ways I wish we had that bit back. But there's always a mystery in the sense that you don't know what's gonna happen in the race. Yeah definitely that still exists.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah like no matter no matter how many predictions we make oh yeah we're gonna we never know what's gonna happen we're trying to predict last night we were trying to predict like who is the person that we left out most likely going to you put any minute money on David Sinclair I mean I is he is he is he towing the line?

SPEAKER_04 32:21

He has a spot he's officially withdrawn he was the guy I thought everyone was gonna come maybe sleep on.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah yes we were trying to figure we're like so who's that person that we screwed up on yesterday is like you said like that's why you still run the race.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Yeah yeah well that's the one thing with like the like broken arrows this weekend we have all the fields like the elite men's field elite women's field and that was the one thing I was like man back in the day like like I was a nobody on the JFK star line. You know what I mean? So the I it's cool that the sport is advancing and we're start and it's like yeah the elite wave start kind of makes sense. But at the same time I I I I hurt a little bit because I'm like what about that Joe Osmo that nobody knows about that like can't get in that wave because he doesn't have the stats yet.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

The guy who just got off the boat.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

Yeah exactly yeah but I mean granted you work your way in you build up those stats and but that was a really fun piece like back like that is I think that piece is under threat of dying these days of like that guy that just comes out of nowhere that nobody knows and it's like yeah call them random ballers random ballers that's pretty good Raid Research is the official equipment and apparel partner of our 2026 Western States 100 coverage.

SPEAKER_05 33:42

You've definitely heard me talk about their LF5L vest launch and their trail tech shorts in the past and yes they are both already sold out but they're gonna be restocked in early July so make sure that you are subscribed to their mailing list so you don't miss the update in other news Raid has many new summer trail products set to release later this week they are relaunching their first running tee that's going to be followed by an ultralight Anorak Rain shell women's cargo crop top and a very exciting women's specific belt in the first half of July so again join their mailing list so you don't miss a beat. Other than that, if you are listening to this during the week of TrailCon and in the area Raid is going to have a booth there so go say hello. Thanks again to Raid for supporting our coverage this week go check out all of their products at raidresearch.com and if you end up buying anything at checkout please let them know that the folks at Single Track sang you so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Is there an element of your training and who you are as an athlete that you feel like has not changed one bit since 2013?

SPEAKER_04 34:45

I mean I still just love to run like yeah I just like I just like running. I just love training. Yeah I do I do love training. Yeah I mean if we could like yeah like racing is fun too but man there's a lot of logistics and pressure and like uh I guess you just gotta figure out how to get rid of that sort of but um or not get rid of all of it but manage it. Um yeah I just I just I still just love training and I love running and I think that's that's the bit that hasn't changed speaking of logistics this is one of the races that seems to have so many moving pieces across you know crews, pacers, timing everything's really tight. Have you gotten to you know talk to or brainstorm with people who've had experience at this race about maybe like race day strategy outside of your own race, you know like your crew and yeah um yeah a bit I mean I have Caitlin Gerbin on my crew and she's fit you know she's finished uh very high up at this race and uh has some some good experience I think both crewing and racing. So I mean her mostly we were just going over some crew details and and she just kind of like um had some suggestions and things. And then aside from that uh I had a phone call the other day just a few days ago uh days ago with Rob Carr um and just picked his brain for a while. And so we just kind of like hash talked through the race and like his recommendations and takeaways and advice and tips and um you know acknowledging that we're two like very different runners, you know, different styles and whatnot but just kind of like sharing him sharing what uh information he could and and that was really nice and I just like really appreciated him for doing that. But I think that was um a little bit like picked brain a little bit with like Seth Ruling and Rod Farvard and um just like kind of more on like little logistical pieces. But uh mostly it mostly it was Rob. Rob was the main one I went to to like dealt like dive in a little deeper.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

What was the biggest impression he made on you?

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Um I think just like well I don't know one I just like really appreciated his his support and his like just like his his kindness um but I think the one big thing in the race for Rob is is just like uh he has like a respect for like just like the race in terms of why it's challenging which is largely I mean one the distance right and then also and then largely the heat and he just he obviously like had a way of like managing his effort throughout the day uh so that he could get to the like he wasn't too concerned about being up top early on but he had a way of managing his effort throughout the day to find his way there in the end. Um and that takes like a lot of I don't know that takes like a lot of self-control and a lot of like paying attention to your body. And he obviously was like quite good at that. So yeah that was the big thing he really seemed to kind of understand that piece of it.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Yeah I watched him when he won in 2015. Uh huh I was here and is still one of the most dialed in like crew crew stops that I've ever seen. And you know 2015 people come in and the crew would just be like what do you need? Uh-huh and then they'd have this laundry list of stuff. Rob would come and not say a single word and they just had a routine and he hit it and was gone in you know 30 seconds and it it it felt like it took like 10 years for everyone to catch up to that. Yeah it was just so amazing.

SPEAKER_04 39:02

Well he went small Rob's crews were small like two people I think and mostly his wife. Yeah I think Christina probably did it a lot and she's actually crewed for me before because I like asked Rob to crew me one time at North Face50 which he did technically I guess but basically Christina crew me. Rob probably I don't think Rob likes the spotlight uh and he probably did things like he he went through it with me like before the race like the plan him and Christina and uh he probably did things I imagine he did things like behind the scenes but like when it came to actually like handing me my bottle and getting my attention in the eighth station like I think he was like close by but Christina was very much the one which again and and it it went well and they did a great job and and I think that might have been I'm not sure what the reason like maybe Rob just doesn't leave the spotlight or or he knows that Christina's very good at it and he's like well why would I do this when she's like the pro. So um but yeah like Christina she's she's a good crew she's she's on it.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Yeah it was like it's it's been like crew inspiration for any race I've done for the last decade.

SPEAKER_05 40:10

Yeah yeah I've got two more questions for you. Okay. Uh well first I'm looking at the hat you're wearing it's a sick hat but it's disintegrating before my eyes what are the values at play there?

SPEAKER_04 40:24

Like why you wear why why that hat oh it's just I'm just like a one hat man like I just like it's this hat established what was the birth date uh I think it was I'm trying to think I think I mean I don't know when they made it it's a north face hat uh you might not be able to tell anymore um it's uh I think I started wearing it in like 2020 or 2019 um because I mean the story was I had like a North face contract my first north face contract portioned out headwear so I was a Northface athlete with a buff headwear contract so I wore buff hats for years and then and then Northface came in and said oh we want the hat stuff back so we like renegotiated things and unfortunately like I had to part ways with buff but I've remained good friends with them they're basically family uh and it's been awesome I still keep in touch with them um but uh I started had to start wearing Northface hats so it was like the day it was like New Year's Day you know when the contract switched I went up to my bedroom you know no one was gonna see me that day I was just at home in Pennsylvania with my family eating pork and sauerkraut because that's what we eat. It's the only thing you should eat on New Year's Day. But um I was for good luck man uh and then uh so I went upstairs to my to my childhood bedroom and like pulled out this hat that I guess I had there which was this one and I started wearing it and my sister was like oh that hat looks good and then I just it just became a hat and I didn't want to change it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

It's like picking a starter Pokemon.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

Yeah I not even that that kind of goes over my head but um you you you fully understand it actually turns out so yeah uh it's so yeah I think that was like I don't remember like let's see 2017 yeah it was like 2020 ish yeah 2019 2020 something like that so it's going on like six seven years something like that so yeah I'm surprised that it's it's it's that messed up after six years seen something man it like it blew off in the Indian peaks one day with Seth rolling and just disappeared like it was gone and we were like up in the high country and Seth and I went we were looking for it and he found it so he saved it that day and then Jess and I were floating the river in Bend one day and like we went down through like the little rapid section I think maybe on our party llama we have this like inflatable party llama that we ride down the river and uh we lost it and like went under and my hat like came off and was in the river but uh somebody found it and got back then. And so yeah. But yeah it's it it's pretty faithful.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

You mentioned eating sauerkraut on New Year's Day in Pennsylvania. Last night Finn and I were scrolling through my husband Mike's ultra sign up like a hundred 120 races deep and one of the first races he's raced is the half sauer half kraut race I think probably out in your neck of the woods. Yeah sounds like one we would have yeah um we definitely have some German and the dirty German the the naked Bavarian yeah um I feel like we're in this era of the sport where people feel like the hometown race is dying. I personally do not Feel like it is. Um, do you have any races that kind of have made you or you'd love to shout out back in Pennsylvania that you think um really are grassroots in the sport?

SPEAKER_04 44:09

Yeah, I love I love Pennsylvania races. Like I feel like I'm just slowly working my way through the classics back home. Um, I mean, still one of my favorite races of all time is I mean, I'm maybe biased because it's my hometown, but uh in in Lancaster County we have the Conestoga Trail run. Um, and that was kind of like one of my first major, well, not major, because it's just like people from Lancaster County mostly. Um, but it was like I did that race a little before JFK, uh, like right before I started working on the ships, and I like was the first person to run it in under an hour and a half, which like no one had ever done. It was like, oh wow, someone finally did it or whatever. Um, so yeah, kind of stuck a trail run, just like a brutal uh hard race back home. And then yeah, there's some other great ones. Last year I won I ran, Jess and I ran Call of the Wilds 50K up in uh like the kind of Pennsylvania Grand Canyon area. That was amazing. Um if you're over there in winter, the frozen snot, they try to have it. The intent is to have it on the coldest day of the year, and then it's like in these really steep uh Pennsylvania mountains, and it just goes like straight up and straight down these things. Like it gets so steep they run like ropes down, so you're like just like tearing down these climbs, like holding on to ropes at the same time. Um, that race is like that race is a hoot. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of good ones.

SPEAKER_05 45:43

You raced Rothrock before it was UTMB.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

Yeah, before it was UTMB. It was when it was Rothrock by Rothrock for Rothrock. Uh yeah, that race is funny that it's UTMV now because it was like kind of a maybe kind of a classic PA race, and then it kind of disappeared, and then I think it kind of came back, and then next thing I knew it was a UTMB race. I was like, wait, what the heck? Um and then Eli Heming ran it. Uh yeah, I ran like the old one uh back when it was like a La Sportiva Cup race. Um it was like a 15k or 25k or something, but I mean it's just all rocks up there. Like, I mean, the name, it's what the name is, like uh Roth Rock State Forest and stuff, it's just like rocks on rocks on rocks on rocks. I I haven't run the UTMB courses, so uh I don't know exactly what those are like, but the old course was just like rocks out the wazoo.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

I've got one more question for you. Okay. It's a quote.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Of course it is. Of course.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Reflect on this for us as a parting thought. If I am only winning the race, I am wasting the gift.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Uh did I say that?

SPEAKER_01 46:56

You were pre. Jeez, we're a preacher.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Uh yeah, I think it's just like I'm a big believer in like life, like running and life in general is like it's it's not just about what you do, but it's about how you do it. Uh so like, yeah, like if you just win the race, but like uh that's like all it is, just like winning, like, I don't know, it's just kind of like it's less than it than it could be. It should like I don't know. It should be like I don't know, like there should be some passion and some heart behind it. Uh I don't know, like there's always a story there, there's always like I don't know, like if you can do it in a way like there's winning, and then there's like there's like the style of how you do it. And it's like if you can do it in a way, even if you don't win, if whatever you can do, you can do it in a way that it's like makes somebody smile or or makes somebody inspired or or makes somebody just be curious or be like, wow, I never saw someone run like that. Like I never saw someone try that hard, or I never saw someone hurt that much, you know, and that like evokes an emotion in someone, then that's like that that thing beyond just winning, you know, that I think is really valuable. And that was like what we sh should be trying to do, I guess, like in running and just in life uh in general. Like I think about it like when I watch like when I spectate like it's it's funny like going into a race, you get all nervous and you're like sometimes you're like, I think people they they're expecting me to like impress them or like have a good race or win or whatever it is, you know, and you feel this pressure. And I'm like, yeah, but when I spectate sport, like sometimes like the thing that impresses me most isn't even the dude that wins, you know? Like I watched Broken Arrow and like you know what a psyched on bro, like sure, it was cool to see um was it Philem, was it Patrick or Philemon that held off Elizine and the Philemon. And it it was awesome to see him hold Elizine off. But like, you know what was what I really like watching that weekend was like like I loved watching like Cam Smith nearly run down first place but end up second, you know. Would have been great if he ended up first. But like, and I really well enjoyed seeing Casey Campbell from Bend, Oregon come up and finish sixth in the vertical K, training out of like 3,500-foot bend, you know, like having what I thought was one of the most impressive finishes of the day. Or like back in the day, like uh when Jans Voigt was on the Tour de France, like he wasn't necessarily winning winning everything, right? But he had this persona and this thing of like he had that like those quotes of like shut up legs and like do what it's shut up legs and do what I tell you to do. So odd.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Yeah, and I love one of these days.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

I loved that guy. And I'm like, he wasn't Lance Armstrong, he wasn't like he wasn't necessarily the guys that were always winning, but like his his because he did more with his cycling than just like being fast, like there was a certain like vibe and character to what he was doing, and that's like what I'm drawn to when I watch sports. Like, oh yeah, I like that guy with like our all the heart and all the soul and all the like the grimace on his face. Like, you know, that that's like the artistic side of it. And I think like that's like we're missing something if we don't bring bring that to the sport.

SPEAKER_05 50:41

We really appreciate the time, Zach. I've said it to everyone, but we mean it every time. We're looking forward to Saturday and just the passion, the excitement, and the hard work that you bring to us. So thanks. Thanks for everything.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Yep. Well, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_05 50:54

All right, thanks for tuning in to our 2026 Western States 100 coverage. This is our fourth year doing it, and we're having the time of our lives. Before we go, I wanted to ask the following from you: if you're motivated to contribute to what we're doing, please consider leaving a detailed rating and review on Apple and Spotify. Leave a comment on any of these episodes on YouTube and support our partners and let them know that we sent you. For example, uh go get one of the new vests from Raid the LF5L, let them know that we sent you at checkout. Same goes for Norda or Precision. Use our discount code in the show notes there, and use the link as well to complete their nutrition planner for your next race. These are the specific actions that truly keep the lights on for us and make this annual pilgrimage to Olympic Valley, this tradition, this great tradition possible. Thanks for considering, and we will see you on the next episode.