Jennifer Lichter | 2026 Western States 100 Champion

Jennifer Lichter joins us in our Auburn, CA studio shortly after her course record victory at the 2026 Western State 100. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Norda is the official footwear partner of our 2026 Western States 100 coverage. All the rage this summer is the imminent release of their new model, the 055, the shoe that Rachel enterkin wore start to finish en route to her course record victory at the Cocodona 250 earlier this year. Go check it out at NordaRun.com and make sure you are subscribed to their mailing list to get exclusive early access to the shoe. I've put a bunch of training miles in it. It's the real deal. We are back if you have been following us all week. We're in a new studio. This is uh Auburn, California. I'm joined by friends, colleagues, Lee Gingling, Brett Hornig, to cap off our 2026 Western States 100 coverage. And we have a special guest in studio. We are joined by the women's champion, Jen Lichter. I mean, Jen, what's the first thing that you want to say about this experience this weekend?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Oh, um I I don't know. I'm in shock still, but um I'm in shock still.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Were you able to get any sleep last night?

SPEAKER_02 1:08

No. No. Um I was just tossing and turning and my legs were aching, and yeah, no sleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

It's so common for winners, like male, female, regardless, it's so common for the winners that they can't comprehend what just happened, they can't comprehend winning. Why?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Well, I I I think it's not the I think it's not that we don't believe we can win. I think it's more that only one person can do that. And in such a big race with such a stacked field, obviously you dream of that, and but everything has to go so perfect. Not maybe not perfect, but so well. Um and I think there's so many variables that can happen that can totally derail a race, and so to like be able to like nail it and put it together and have the day that you dreamed you could. Um yeah, I think it's just like oh my god, I did it, what do I do now? So I think maybe more of that, or like comprehending the fact that like it became reality, it became fruition, and of how do you how do you sit with that?

SPEAKER_01 2:36

At what point during the race, if if any, did it hit you? Like, I'm going to win Western States.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Um getting to No Hands Bridge. Um.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Which is pretty late in the race. So you weren't you weren't letting yourself think that.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

No, I didn't. Because I wanted to get the best out of myself and my fitness, and so I in my head, I always kept telling myself at this, you know, in this instance, they're gonna catch me, like Ryan's gonna catch me. Right, you don't let her cat don't let them catch you. And so uh I think that just kept me honest, and I wanted I wanted an honest pace and an honest effort. Uh so yeah, I would say no hands.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

You said before we started recording that you actually didn't know that you were as close to the course record or able to touch it like you were um throughout the race. Was it when you crossed the finish line that you realized you had broken the course record? Or were there moments leading up to it that like from Roby Point down that you had your crew telling you, like, hey, you got this?

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah, so I wasn't aware of how fast I was running, how fast the field was running. Uh, I wasn't aware of like splits or anything. Uh it's not really how I race. And so um I only knew about it when I was climbing at Roby Point, and my partner, Nick, turned to me and he said, 'Do you want a course record? You have to be at the top of Ruby Point at this time.' And I go, I can't even comprehend that right now. I'm so tired. Uh, and I'm doing everything I can right now. And um, and then I get to the top of Roby Point on that long hilly cement part, and everyone, my whole crew is there, and they're like, You gotta go, Jen, you gotta go. You're like only 30 seconds up on it, you gotta go now. Um, can't lose it on this climb, blah blah blah. And I think that helped me uh not walk that climb. Um but it was definitely overwhelming, and I think it wasn't until that hill into the track that I think I just like willed something deeper to come out of me, and I just like sent it in. Um and yeah, I think it finished and I saw the time and I was like, oh my god, I can't believe I just did that.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

How do you prevent yourself from settling in those moments? I think there's a lot of people, I mean, there's not a lot of people who would be in your shoes, but there's a lot of people in your shoes who would think a win is great, a win is good enough, I'm winning Western states, and almost get a little complacent in those moments. Like, what are you telling yourself in those moments to push yourself to get the most out of you?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Um I think I always play the game of seconds gonna catch you. Anything can happen. They could just they could feel like me and and have another gear. I feel like I don't know what's I don't know what's happening behind me. All I know is like what I can do to like keep myself in track, and that's you're racing for a reason, you're racing to race, you're not racing to like time trial. And so I think for me, yeah, I think I just like keep myself honest and like anything can happen. And if you really want this badly, like you've gotta keep pushing, and you gotta keep yourself honest. Um, and also I I think after a certain point I just want it so bad that I refuse. I grit my teeth and I refuse to to like and let anyone catch me.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Yeah, you said you even cried at one point.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Uh yeah, go take us through that a little bit because I think it's really cool to see that the women at the top of the sport, the men at the top of the sport are like equally vulnerable as somebody at the back of the pack who was like maybe struggling in a moment and can't fathom going on. Um, yeah, what was happening whenever you experience tears during the race.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Yeah, um I yeah, I think I would find myself kind of get overwhelmed with just kind of like how long I've been out there, like how my legs are feeling, like, you know, at mile gosh, when I like 96, 95, whatever it was, where it felt just my body was like, Yep, yep, you you've you're you've ran 95 miles and you've never done this before. And so it just it almost felt like that's all I could think about. And I think I just like I was like whimpering and I was like, I feel so bad, like my legs hurt. Uh, and then I catch myself and I just like force myself to like eat or drink something. And I think at one point I even forced myself to just kind of like not even power walk, but like put my hands on my hips and just walk like this, just like take a deep breath, and then like continue like running or or cruising. Um, and so just like recentering myself and like realizing that you're human and like you're doing something really hard, and it's okay to like acknowledge that, but then don't let that dictate your race. And so then I just like it felt like I just like shoved it in the back of my mind, and I called it Lizard brain, and I just went Lizard brained and I said, like you're fit enough to push through this.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Was that the most vulnerable point in the race for you?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yes, for sure. Otherwise, thank goodness nobody saw it on the live stream.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Some people in your position have had to live that out live.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yes, I believe it.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Um so, okay, like, because we've talked about this offline. When I hear you talk about this year's Western States, I get a lot of similarities to Katie Scheid's 2024 Candy's Hundred K. And she made an Instagram post after that race where it's like, I wanted to write this long thing about, you know, here's where I had to like really push through, and here's where I was suffering, here's where things went haywire, but like I don't have that for you. It was a pretty nonchalant day. Like everything just kind of clicked. Is is that the headline here?

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Yeah. To be honest, I felt so steady all day. Um, I felt very in control of my effort. Um like my nutrition was going well, and you know, like, and by going well I means like I could pivot when th when something wasn't sounding good or anything, and and still continue like run well, and um honestly, yeah. I just I it's funny because I'd I all I can say is I was like, I was just really steady and then I felt really good, and then I went to push to the end uh when the race felt like it was getting too close. And so um yeah, I I I really do think I just I raced to my I raced the race that I knew I could race because I was very intuitive in how I approached it and raced it.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Does this experience at 100 miles make you more or less likely to do 100 miles in the future?

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Um that's a great question. Um we're removed, we're like less than 24 hours removed from the finish. Um but I think yes, I think I I definitely want to do more. Um I was only scared with how I felt after. Um it's just the feeling after you finish that's like so you just so wrecked. You feel like you got bulldozed by a truck and then dragged by it for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Um is that seconds after, or when does that set in?

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Uh I would say like five, ten minutes after. It feels like you're just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Hit by a bus. Yes. I saw you in the wheelchair.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Oh, you got chaired out.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

I got chaired out, I was so dramatic. Uh but yeah, I I think I just sat down too quickly and then stood up after the interview, and I think all the blood rushed to my legs uh from my head, and so I felt really lightheaded and really dizzy, and I just remember saying, I'm going down. Um so uh but the actual race experience, yes, because it was it's really nice to come out of your first hundred mile and feel like so controlled and so confident and not not that the distance gets more like less daunting, but just comfortable in like the fact that like everything just clicked by.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Yeah, it's um with debut 100s, some people talk about them like it's a dis like it's um you might not do as well in your first hundred, to put it simply.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Such a learning curve.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

It's there's a learning curve, and you might not be considered a favorite if this is your debut 100. Um, you were actually talking offline about how you think it being your debut 100 actually was a strength in some ways. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Yeah, I think because I, you know, going into this race, I didn't have a past self to compare myself to. I didn't have a certain pressure to, you know, run a certain time or or like I don't know, I feel bad for Abby or like any past winner, like win again, you know, defend your title. Um and that's a lot of pressure. That really is. And I think it's really hard to like have such a good day, come back and not not compare yourself to that, and not compare yourself to like how you felt that day. Um, and I was actually talking to Abby a little bit today um at the awards, and she said it it almost felt like I had to let that day go in and start with the clean slate, but that day was so special that I didn't want to let go of it. And in a like it makes sense. Um and so I think for me, I was lucky that I went into like kind of like an ignorance is bliss. All you can do is try to your best and and race smart and to carry yourself, and and you hope that uh your training and and your fitness and your mindset is like ready to tackle that on, and um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

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SPEAKER_01 14:58

So you've had two races this year where it was a debut at a new distance. Did you feel a greater sense of like mystery or what's going to happen before Black Canyon or before Western states?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Um, I think it was more western states for sure. Because I think there's so much more race and so many so more room for error. Um more room for things to go wrong, more room for people to make a comeback move, or um yeah, I think the shorter the distance, the less room for error you get. So it have everything has to go kind of perfectly. And um but with this, it's like I don't know, I could hit a really bad low and come out of it, but I don't know because I've never you know experienced that and uh and a hundred especially at a hundred mile distance. Um so yeah, I think there was definitely more mystery with this one.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Were there any pivots that you had to make midway through the race that maybe you weren't anticipating on?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Can I talk about the bread and coke?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Uh no pivots, I guess nutrition-wise. Uh I yeah, in basically like Forest Hill, I realized that I wasn't my gels weren't not that they weren't sitting well, but they're just I just they weren't something I wanted to eat. And I was like, well, if I'm running 100 miles, I need to be eating something that I want to eat so that I eat it and I don't then fall back on calories. Uh and so that's when my my wonder bread and Coca-Cola came in and um yeah, I decided to like mosh just too and I would just dump Coca-Cola on the bread, ball into a ball and put it in my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Um like a whole slice at a time?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, but it it it clenches pretty much like a rice ball, but bread.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Turns out it's mostly air.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Um just soak in Coca-Cola.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Yeah. So I I end up having a lot of that from Forest Hill to the finish. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

The brand collab. We didn't know we needed.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Uh yeah, I was curious about this, your answer to this question, because this was a debut for you. And with the caveat that there's a lot that goes into being successful at 100-mile distance. If you had to boil it down to confidence versus fitness, which one was more important for you in this victor?

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Oh, definitely confidence. Um I don't doubt that a lot of the girls that I raced against were as fit as me. Um and it's I think it's just like who wants it the most, who's most, who's the most confident, who can take confident risks, you could say. Um, you know, I took a confidence risk when I decided to make a move going up the canyons. Um and yeah, I think it's definitely a confidence is huge thing.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Yeah. I think there's a lot of moments in a race when you're probably moving as strongly as you were, where you're telling yourself as positive self-talk, like there's no way anybody else out here is moving as well as I am right now. Were you then surprised crossing the river up a green gate to hear that there actually was a tight race between you and Riley, who was 90 seconds to three minutes back from you?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Oh, yeah. Um that kind of surprised me a little bit. Um because I do think there was a lot of climbs in in Cal One. Um and just based on what I've seen before, Riley wasn't moving as strong on the climbs that I as I was, and so coming out of the river, and I heard that Riley was behind, I didn't know exactly how much at that point, uh that's when he clicked for me that it was time to truly race. Because I think before the entire day, I just wanted to hold steady and hold steady and hold steady, and in case someone made a move, I could respond. Um but in a way, that's what I love about racing is by you having someone hunt you, or likewise, you're hunting someone, you get the best out of yourself. And so I think having Riley behind me with 20 miles to go really helped me really run really strong the last 20 miles into the finish. I don't know if I would have run as strong if she well they they weren't chasing me, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Yeah, Finn had this comment, I think, yesterday, or maybe it was Brett, but Jen runs so well when she's running scared. Do you feel like that is something that is true about you and motivates you? 100%.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah, scared is the word.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

100%. Um Yeah. I'd say so. I don't know what other word they could describe it.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So there's a like there there is a world where like fear is a good motivator and you can channel it once makes a better fight.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

What point in the race?

SPEAKER_02 20:36

You you can you can dig deeper.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

What point in the race, or when was the last point in the race where you weren't in the lead? Like when did you take the lead for good?

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Uh I took the lead for good, uh heading into chance on that descent of Devil Sum. Yeah. So I passed Riley on that descent heading into Devil Sum.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Did you think that that might be the point in which you stay in the lead till the finish line?

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, I wanted that. Um because I felt I personally thought that I could make a good gap in the canyons. Uh by doing that, I was setting myself up for like the last few miles and and because those last few miles like I think we're all pretty equal in how we can run them. Uh and so yeah, I think I went into the canyons and I was like, this is my move. And I hope that it sticks.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

It's amazing that the canyons are still the like one of the main cruxes of the race, like after all these years, and it's still so early on.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah. Was you you talked about really taking control and um taking care of yourself out there and taking those moments and not regretting taking those moments to take care of yourself. Were there any transitions or moments in the race uh that you look back on and you're like that was absolutely pivotal to my success because I took an extra minute to take care of myself?

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Yeah, I mean I going to the race, I knew that self-care was gonna be the biggest thing. I knew I was fit enough to run well and do well, and so I think it was like listening to cues, going into like certain A stations of what do I need right now to get myself to like continue this effort to continue feeling confident for the next section and the next section and the next section. Um and yeah, like at Greengate, I changed shoes. Not many people do a shoe change, they think it's probably too much time. Um even though Riley was very close at that point. I I told myself this is really important and how these next 20 miles go. Like I this I think I truly believe that if I'd kept the shoes that I was at, I think I don't think I would have run as well. And so I took the extra time, even though it most people probably would have been like, that's crazy, you know, and uh just like little decisions like that, uh where I think just shave off so many minutes, I think, despite the time.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

You've now proven yourself very much at like the 50k distance, the 100k distance, the 100-mile distance. Is there any distance that you look back at, like, you know, across those that you say, like this is what I'm best at? Oh.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

I I don't know because I I feel like I need to do like two more hundred K's. Maybe one or two more hundred milers, maybe one hundred milers um to really know. I don't think what I've done in the past year is a fluke. I think it's something I truly believed I could do. I think it was just a matter of like finding the right team and the support to get me there. Um and then because I think all of that adds up to I keep saying this, like just the confidence piece. Um and then also just knowing deep down that there was so much more uh to the sport and that I could give, and it was just a matter of like, how do I get there? Like what steps do I need to do to get there? Getting a new coach, you know, getting a dietitian, like little things. Um, because I truly believe like running is very, you know, singular and that's you that that's running. But I think it really you really need a support system to get the best out of yourself. Sometimes like you just want to turn your brain off and let other people make those decisions for you, then know you.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Do you feel like this is the most confident you've been as a runner throughout your career?

SPEAKER_02 25:28

I think so, and it's it's come very naturally. And I, you know, I think it's I think I've always been a very confident runner. Uh, but I think in the past I've I've been maybe a little frustrated because maybe it's like not their I don't know, maybe like the result that I knew I could I could have done. And deep down it's like, gosh, come out of there, please. Like I know you're buried somewhere there. It's like, how do I get you out so that I could showcase what I can do? Um and I think just through like the series of of of racing and training differently with this new coach and this new support system and dietitian and changing nutrition and uh really truly like getting all the tools to like help with that, um, I think the confidence just came really easily. Because in that I'm you know, I'm at the start line, I truly believe in like what I've done the past few months. Um and then I go and race and everything just feels like I can I can click and I can respond. And so it doesn't really feel forced. Like my success doesn't really feel forced. It feels like it feels like I'm just really fit. Like I go out and race and I just like oh I can hold this pace. You know, someone makes a move and I can respond. Um and so I yeah, I think that's where I'm at. It's just it's weird. I just feel like it's it's I'm in maybe a Zen, Luna Zen state of my career, Zen Zen, yeah. Um where yeah, I feel like I just show up on a start line. I want to do really well. Um and I just let the race unfold. And if I don't win, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

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SPEAKER_03 28:18

Do you think a win and course record at Western States will change how you feel going into future races?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Um I mean a yes and no. I think yes and like maybe the confidence of like oh I can I can do the distance now, it doesn't have to be so daunting. And I do feel like I have to do more 100 milers to really get the the click and the hang of it and the confidence of those. Uh but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

I feel like you're still young, you're in the prime of your career right now, and you've had success at basically every single distance in the ultra scene. So I feel like there's a lot of opportunity in front of you. Do you stay at the 100-mile distance? Do you drop dead? Like where where do you see your identity in the sport going?

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Um I think I think I'm at a point in my career where these longer races excite me a little more. Uh I think 50k's will always be something I do. I love that that distance. Um, but I do feel like not that I've exhausted the distance, but um I think the longer the 100k's and the 100 miles excite me a little bit more right now. Um it just feels like the right move right now to like bump up. So I don't know. Maybe I'll be a hundred K or maybe I'll be a hundred miler. I think I'm still trying to explore that. And I think that's why I did the 100k and the 100 miler. Um so and I'm signed up for CCC.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

So I was just gonna ask like if your season ended today, would this be satisfactory?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

I think so. But I think maybe come August or September I'd be like, I wish I was there. So we'll see. I think I'm I think I definitely need to recover well after this and uh not rush into things because I'm sure there's my body's going through some internal stuff that it's like, well, we've never done this before. Um and so kind of respecting that. Um but yeah, I don't know. I think I would love I think I would love to be known as like Jen, the diverse runner, who can throw down at any distance. I think that would be like the best.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

You um you've had a lot of interesting matchups this year, and you've almost gone head to head in every single race you've done at uh Black Canyon. You went head-to-head with Ann Flower in a really tight race at Gorge 50k, head to head with Meow Meow for almost the entirety of that race. Now, largely head to head with Riley in some ways here at Western States. Is there anyone you've yet to race that you're like, gang? I would love to go head to head with them.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Of course. Katie Shagged.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

I would love to.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Freaking love her. Yeah, no, I would love to. And I I I was really looking forward to racing her at Worlds, and she I mean, same same um, she told me that she was really bummed that I didn't race. Uh, and I think it goes back to like the respect and like the I know it's gonna be a good race and we're gonna get the best out of each other. Um and I think she's so incredibly strong, and uh yeah, I think it's is one of those people that I was like, yeah, I wanna I wanna throw down with you, you know. Let's uh let's see where this goes. Um so she's definitely one, and then uh gosh, probably some Europeans, you know, Blondine, like oh, um the Kiwi, Bruce Croft, you know, like some of these legends of the sport. Um and I feel like I'm just entering their territory, so um yeah, I think it'd be really fun to to see how I can throw down with them.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Do you have like a a bucket list of races that you want to do in your career?

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Uh I feel like it just changes per year, but um, based on like what's going on. Um if you were to ask me if I want to do UT and B next year, I would probably say probably not. Uh not ready for that yet. Um but I say that now, and I said that last year about Western States, so we'll see. It's always a moving ship. Um, but I yeah, so UTMB for sure is on my bucket list. Um doing CCC, that was also on my bucket list. Uh I want to go back to Templier. Um other big ones.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

How about Golden Trail? Hard rock.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

I want to do hard rock. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Okay, Dale.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Listen.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Dale.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

I'd love to do hard rock. I race really well at altitude. Um something that I've like noticed about myself. Um, and I just love the San Juans. Um, and then I feel like those are kind of like the top ones on my bucket list. Yeah. They're pretty big.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Last question for me, at least. I we talked about sort of like the superstar question in our previous interview, and I think it's even more relevant now. There's gonna be people that are coming up to you, and they're gonna tell you how much you mean to them and how you inspire them in certain ways, and you can't really control how they perceive you. But using this platform, for example, uh, is there a message you'd like to put out into the world about like you know what inspires you and what you'd like to represent?

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Are you are starting to think about how you want to use this Western state's victory?

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Oh man. Just bet on yourself, maybe. I think like just because something's new doesn't mean that you can't excel at it. Um and I think maybe more people need to erase fears fearlessly like that, in like a in like a I can't let the potential of blowing up stop me from from racing the way I want to race. Um you know, I I could have easily yesterday been like, oh I'm a rookie at this, I need to hold back. I need to hold back more. I need to hold back. I'm afraid of blowing up, I'm afraid of blowing up. And I think that can I don't think I would have ran as strong. Um and so maybe like letting that fear out of the equation. Um yeah, just like betting on yourself and yeah, trusting that like intuitively you'll know if you're going too fast. But if you're going at a pace that you know you can, and it happens to be faster than you think, like ignore that and just keep doing it.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

So yeah. So it's definitely less from the less inspirational tone here, but you were hauling ass as you did your 300 meters around the track last night. How fast do you think you were going for that? I don't know, but I'm I'm so curious how you like what was that perceived effort and perceived pace because it looked so fast to be closing out 100 miles.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Um I don't know. I I want to say maybe I don't know, 5.30. That's what it looked like.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

My guess was meant below 5. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Drew Darby, who was following you in, said 5.15.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Okay. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Well, that's solid.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Your strides.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

After you finished Black Canyon. I remember you saying after your pocketbook. I don't know how the hell I'm supposed to go 40 more miles. Did Western States feel as long as you thought it might?

SPEAKER_02 36:55

No.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

It was it was alright.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

It was great. I think, like I said, like it's crazy at Black Canyon, the last 10 miles were really, really hard. At Western States, it was really like the last four or five miles that were really, really hard. And so yeah. I don't know how to how to take that, but um yeah, it I think because I ran so much faster pace-wise at Black Canyon, I almost felt more destroyed. Here, it was just like a different fatigue. You felt like a deterioration of the brain. So it didn't feel like trying to keep my brain from going to like the darkest places. That worse is I felt like in Black Canyon my mind was fine, it was my body.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Okay, yeah. So it felt like two different styles of effort 100%.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Yeah. I know on the surface, like a win in course record at Western States, like to most people, like would be the best race of their career. Do you think this was the best race of your career?

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Oh man, um, I'm not gonna put a limiting factor, so no. Um I think it's the best race so far of my career. But um, do I have more in me? Probably. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Last, last question. Sure. Last one. Uh how long do you think it will take you to decide about coming back here next year? And what factors will you be weighing in that decision?

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Um, that's a great question. I think it's gonna take me a month or two, to be honest. Um to soak it all in and just I don't know, I just I really just want to like respect like everything that I just did. Training and then racing for this race. Uh anyone else your other question?

SPEAKER_00 39:07

What factors are gonna be involved in that decision?

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Oh, um. I think it just depends on what I want to prioritize next year. Um if I want to do maybe more hundredk's, if I want to do more European racing. Um I think because I feel like with Western States, it's like I guess I don't have to chase a golden ticket. Sorry. I was like, oh, you have to do like a golden ticket chase and then the race. Uh so that's already like half your season. Um, I totally forgot you was good, go in. Um so I don't know. I think to answer your question, I don't know if there's a many factors. I think it's just like, do I want to do that again? You know, because I felt great, but it was still hard. Like it was still like I I was racing and I was and I was putting everything out there. Um and so I would say it's it's trauma to the body, but right now I feel it. Um and so I think just getting past how you wreck do you feel afterwards?

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Um, but yeah, I don't know, we'll see. I think I do have one last, last question. And I think history has shown that a Western state's win often goes through Flagstaff and route to the win. You've done most of your training, almost exclusively all your training in Missoula, Montana. Can you give a shout out to what makes Missoula a prime training ground for Western states and yeah, maybe the people that make it so as well?

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Yeah, I mean, I think um Missoula, I think it just it has like the climbs, very similar climbing to like the canyons, uh, very, very runnable descents. Uh we can get chunky too to practice that. Uh you know, like I don't know, I think it's just it's just a good vibe. Like, I don't even know what to say about that. Like it's my home, and I it's so easy to simulate any type of terrain that you need. And there's so many options, and I think that's what I love about it. It doesn't really specifically fit to one race, it fits to a multiple in a lot, and I think that's what I love it. Um because I also trained for Black Canyon there, um, and I've trained for 50Ks, really mountainous 50Ks there. Um, you know, and I'm we're not at super high altitude. Um, and I don't I think some of that draw flags that is like the high altitude. Um but I don't know, I feel like I would rather get that one percentage of altitude into like my fitness. Um so I sacrificed that and just try to get that one percent fitter. Uh because I can recover faster. I can so many benefits to like not being altitude. Um so especially if you don't live in it, and you know, and so um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Well, Jen, uh we can't thank you enough for your time this uh this soon after Western States. We I think we collectively wish you the chance to disconnect and rest and relax, and this was well deserved. So congrats again.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

All right, thanks for tuning in to our 2026 Western States 100 coverage. This is our fourth year doing it, and we're having the time of our lives. Before we go, I wanted to ask the following from you if you're motivated to contribute to what we're doing, please consider leaving a detailed rating and review on Apple and Spotify. Leave a comment on any of these episodes on YouTube, and support our partners and let them know that we sent you. For example, uh go get one of the new vests from Raid the LF5L, let them know that we sent you at checkout. Same goes for Nord or Precision, use our discount code in the show notes there, and use the link as well to complete their nutrition planner for your next race. These are the specific actions that truly keep the lights on for us and make this annual pilgrimage to Olympic Valley, this tradition, this great tradition possible. Thanks for considering, and we will see you on the next episode.